orchardlady
02-22-2007, 09:31 PM
Do you have "things" in your life make you want to run in the other direction when they happen?
Today I was telling Dr.Jim about my confusion with the fact that I can't watch...on TV or in real life...the simplest criticism, hurt to another person or animal, people being punished, etc. I also can't watch movies that end with "true love"; e.g. Sleepless in Seattle. If I watch them I end the movie sobbing for a couple of hours, so I haven't watched one in a long time.
Things as silly as American Idol. The nights when someone get voted off. There are times when I have to change the channel or turn off the TV. What is with this I asked? I can't watch The Apprentice all the way through because of the criticism and failure that happens in the middle. I can watch the beginning and the end of the board room, but not the middle 80%.
There is one instance that I witnessed once in person that haunts me in technicolor. I think of it often and it will not go away.
It happened back in 1992 or 1993 when I was working as a volunteer every Wednesday night for three hours in a large metropolitan level one trauma emergency room. All walks of life come through the triage...oh my goodness. One night, not unlike all the others, a mom came in with a crying 2/3 yr old in tow. The child was very upset. After telling this wee, sweet child to "Shut Up!" several times, she swung her arm and smacked the child square in the back with a flat open hand.
Then there is my startle reaction. It is so bad. I don't jump three feet, I jump six feet. And, over the smallest unseen, but heard, noise. And since my MVA in 1994, I am terrible in the car. My daughter...goodness...Mom, Stop it!. She can't understand why the smallest things make me jump...but only when I am not the drive...in control.
Classic PTSD! So, now it is on to working on why I avoid these things when they happen and what am I covering up by the avoidance.
All of the above has to do with my "Retreating" thread. I have decided to quit the attempt to be social until I have worked out these issue, which may take a very long time. It is just too difficult to talk myself into social occasions and then the aftermath of what I do to myself...just too much.
Anyone identify with all of this?
Today I was telling Dr.Jim about my confusion with the fact that I can't watch...on TV or in real life...the simplest criticism, hurt to another person or animal, people being punished, etc. I also can't watch movies that end with "true love"; e.g. Sleepless in Seattle. If I watch them I end the movie sobbing for a couple of hours, so I haven't watched one in a long time.
Things as silly as American Idol. The nights when someone get voted off. There are times when I have to change the channel or turn off the TV. What is with this I asked? I can't watch The Apprentice all the way through because of the criticism and failure that happens in the middle. I can watch the beginning and the end of the board room, but not the middle 80%.
There is one instance that I witnessed once in person that haunts me in technicolor. I think of it often and it will not go away.
It happened back in 1992 or 1993 when I was working as a volunteer every Wednesday night for three hours in a large metropolitan level one trauma emergency room. All walks of life come through the triage...oh my goodness. One night, not unlike all the others, a mom came in with a crying 2/3 yr old in tow. The child was very upset. After telling this wee, sweet child to "Shut Up!" several times, she swung her arm and smacked the child square in the back with a flat open hand.
Then there is my startle reaction. It is so bad. I don't jump three feet, I jump six feet. And, over the smallest unseen, but heard, noise. And since my MVA in 1994, I am terrible in the car. My daughter...goodness...Mom, Stop it!. She can't understand why the smallest things make me jump...but only when I am not the drive...in control.
Classic PTSD! So, now it is on to working on why I avoid these things when they happen and what am I covering up by the avoidance.
All of the above has to do with my "Retreating" thread. I have decided to quit the attempt to be social until I have worked out these issue, which may take a very long time. It is just too difficult to talk myself into social occasions and then the aftermath of what I do to myself...just too much.
Anyone identify with all of this?
Sponsor
gunnerb52
02-23-2007, 12:05 AM
When you stat to look for the causes for all of your startle reactions and you avoidance of other situations you never know what you will find. I still have things that I do not understand anniversary that I can't place with any thing that happened. My doctor has told me that when the mind is ready to handle them they will come, my only problem is that I keep a lot of it locked down and once the dam breaks it can over load me. I am lucky that my wife can help keep me anchored to the here and now, if she only new how many times she has done that with out even trying. I am very very lucky to have her....
I have trouble with movies most I can watch but Platoon and Saving Private Ryan no way, I can watch but I don't remember the movie. I don't understand it but my doctor says not to watch them, I can watch all the others but the ones that are to close to being real I can not watch it shuts me down. Some movies and shows will make me want to cry songs can do the same thing with out and waring.
My startle reactions are better than what they use to be but I still don't like people walking behind me or loud noises unless I am the one causing them. I just don't like surprises either, make my plans for the day and that is it, don't like changes but sometimes I can.
What I am trying to say is that I can identify with a lot you are saying and know it will not be easy, I don't always like the answers but at lest I know what is causing the problem and can work on it from there.
I hope this helps
may you find peace
gunner
I have trouble with movies most I can watch but Platoon and Saving Private Ryan no way, I can watch but I don't remember the movie. I don't understand it but my doctor says not to watch them, I can watch all the others but the ones that are to close to being real I can not watch it shuts me down. Some movies and shows will make me want to cry songs can do the same thing with out and waring.
My startle reactions are better than what they use to be but I still don't like people walking behind me or loud noises unless I am the one causing them. I just don't like surprises either, make my plans for the day and that is it, don't like changes but sometimes I can.
What I am trying to say is that I can identify with a lot you are saying and know it will not be easy, I don't always like the answers but at lest I know what is causing the problem and can work on it from there.
I hope this helps
may you find peace
gunner
orchardlady
02-23-2007, 05:30 AM
I didn't plan the discussion...just came to the top for some reason. I never realized either was a condition of PTSD.
He did give me a website that is great. Filled with PTSD information. Tons of research, mostly for professionals, but we patients are a lot smarter than most professionals give us credit for.
He did give me a website that is great. Filled with PTSD information. Tons of research, mostly for professionals, but we patients are a lot smarter than most professionals give us credit for.
stick2013
02-23-2007, 07:39 AM
Dear Carolyn,
Yes I can indentify with everything that you stated. I find it hard to sit through some movies, and TV shows too. I ended up either way to angry, or crying. I hate the show the Apprentice....I think Donald Trump is an ARROGANT PIECE of HUMAN GARBAGE that enjoys destroying people emotionally for his own entertainment. The last movie I went to was "Finding Nemo" I cried........I cry over watching the birth of babies on TV.
I just think that people with PTSD are on sensory overload all the time.... As far as driving with someone else....OMG!!!! I an a backseat driver if anyone else is driving, I have the brakes on in the passenger seat the entire ride.....It's one of the reasons that I ended a 20 yr friendship. He used to think it was FUNNY to scare the crap out of me when he was driving.
The starle response come with the territory of PTSD.....Mine has gotten a little better, but I still startle easy.
Keep posting, and keep letting things out... This is good therapy.....:)
Hugs,
Sid
Yes I can indentify with everything that you stated. I find it hard to sit through some movies, and TV shows too. I ended up either way to angry, or crying. I hate the show the Apprentice....I think Donald Trump is an ARROGANT PIECE of HUMAN GARBAGE that enjoys destroying people emotionally for his own entertainment. The last movie I went to was "Finding Nemo" I cried........I cry over watching the birth of babies on TV.
I just think that people with PTSD are on sensory overload all the time.... As far as driving with someone else....OMG!!!! I an a backseat driver if anyone else is driving, I have the brakes on in the passenger seat the entire ride.....It's one of the reasons that I ended a 20 yr friendship. He used to think it was FUNNY to scare the crap out of me when he was driving.
The starle response come with the territory of PTSD.....Mine has gotten a little better, but I still startle easy.
Keep posting, and keep letting things out... This is good therapy.....:)
Hugs,
Sid
orchardlady
02-23-2007, 08:02 AM
I use to watch Grey's Anatomy, but I can't watch it anymore either. Too much relationship turmoil.
Maybe there is a reason I like the old black and white 40s movies so much. Now there is a thought.
The other thing I am dealing with right now is my son. He wants me to come to the upper northwest to visit him before he leaves for Iraq in five weeks. Part of me wants to go, but part of me wants to run in the other direction. Sometimes I just wish he would go away and never return into my life. I just can't seem to get excited about visiting him (33 yrs in April), but I know it is the right thing for me to do...he has come so far emotionally. While I know I don't need to fear him like I once did, he still scares me. Having said that, I am his only safe harbor on plant earth. Some days I resent that, some days I am okay with it.
Dr.Jim started to plan "hangman" with me one day. I knew the word before he ever finished drawing the guy and the letter-lines. FORGIVE If I forgive my son...then I have to forgive the jerk (being nice here) who is buried in a cemetary 1,000 miles away from me...then I have to forgive myself. I feel so responsible for the person my son was, and try to take on the good responsibility feelings for who he is now...but to do the latter I have to forgive myself.
Ugh :(
Maybe there is a reason I like the old black and white 40s movies so much. Now there is a thought.
The other thing I am dealing with right now is my son. He wants me to come to the upper northwest to visit him before he leaves for Iraq in five weeks. Part of me wants to go, but part of me wants to run in the other direction. Sometimes I just wish he would go away and never return into my life. I just can't seem to get excited about visiting him (33 yrs in April), but I know it is the right thing for me to do...he has come so far emotionally. While I know I don't need to fear him like I once did, he still scares me. Having said that, I am his only safe harbor on plant earth. Some days I resent that, some days I am okay with it.
Dr.Jim started to plan "hangman" with me one day. I knew the word before he ever finished drawing the guy and the letter-lines. FORGIVE If I forgive my son...then I have to forgive the jerk (being nice here) who is buried in a cemetary 1,000 miles away from me...then I have to forgive myself. I feel so responsible for the person my son was, and try to take on the good responsibility feelings for who he is now...but to do the latter I have to forgive myself.
Ugh :(
stick2013
02-23-2007, 08:11 AM
Carolyn,
Forgivness also forces us to look at our own responsibiliy into things too. It's not plesant, but it is so important.... I haven't had a relationship with my daughter in 4 yrs, she blames me for her entire life. I take resposnsibility for about 75%. The rest is hers. We can't even sit in a room together without an arguement erupting. I HATE arguements, so I leave, she gets agnrier. No win......
I have validated her feelings, have apologized for EVERYTHING that I have ever done to her, I have told her that I KNOW I was a HORRIBLE parent. I have asked for forgivness, and told her that i can't un do what I have done, but can only move forward and try to be a better person.....She still blames me....End of story.....I haven't seen her, or my grandchildren in 4 yrs, I deal with it, and have moved on, they are a part of my past life.......
So Yes I know how you feel too.
Sid
Forgivness also forces us to look at our own responsibiliy into things too. It's not plesant, but it is so important.... I haven't had a relationship with my daughter in 4 yrs, she blames me for her entire life. I take resposnsibility for about 75%. The rest is hers. We can't even sit in a room together without an arguement erupting. I HATE arguements, so I leave, she gets agnrier. No win......
I have validated her feelings, have apologized for EVERYTHING that I have ever done to her, I have told her that I KNOW I was a HORRIBLE parent. I have asked for forgivness, and told her that i can't un do what I have done, but can only move forward and try to be a better person.....She still blames me....End of story.....I haven't seen her, or my grandchildren in 4 yrs, I deal with it, and have moved on, they are a part of my past life.......
So Yes I know how you feel too.
Sid
ICC
02-23-2007, 08:47 AM
good morning all --- you all understand and see what PTSD does to people and what we go through. though normal with the disorder it's still upsetting to say the least. I also am not a TV person. wondered why at times but after reading all of your posts have a good idea now. The startle response in me i fear is here to stay. I will no my husband is in the house and just the slightest sound of his footsteps if he enters a room expecially behind me can send me 6 feet away.:eek: I am finding that I also have a hard time in large crowded areas. makes me very anxious and I never noticed this before either until recently. I seem to get a little disoriented and since I dissociate I'm never sure if i'm going to or what's happening. In the car with hubby yesterday i was almost to a shaking point. He likes to bob and weave while driving and though i know he's an excellent driver it still cares me. Basically i still have issues but feel they are under control. i still need to be here because everyone keeps me grounded and I know if something comes back to bite me there will be someone with knowledge. comfort and understanding to help guide me through it. What really helped me was to take one issue at a time here and to my therapist. one at a time. I had several and had no idea what some were. Once you deal and settle one issue pick another. Or as gunner said it causes flood gates to open and puts you in a state for days. sometimes you can't help it. when something comes out all the rest follows and boy is it scary but necessary and helpful. I wish all of you the best.
Gunner ---- being a vet how can you watch movies like platoon? Just curious. they tear my heart out.
Love to all,
Grasshopper:)
Gunner ---- being a vet how can you watch movies like platoon? Just curious. they tear my heart out.
Love to all,
Grasshopper:)
gunnerb52
02-23-2007, 10:09 AM
Gunner ---- being a vet how can you watch movies like platoon? Just curious. they tear my heart out.
Grasshopper
I don't really watch them I have tried but I black out and don't remember the movie at all, or what I am doing during the movie. I got a big surprise did not expect the reaction I got from watching them, I just can't watch them, tried and will not try again.
peace
gunner
Grasshopper
I don't really watch them I have tried but I black out and don't remember the movie at all, or what I am doing during the movie. I got a big surprise did not expect the reaction I got from watching them, I just can't watch them, tried and will not try again.
peace
gunner
orchardlady
02-23-2007, 11:13 AM
Grasshopper, my reduced cognition due to PD has made my fear of crowds more noticable. I don't like them anymore. I get far more disoriented that I once did.
Oh, I have taken responsibility for my life, especially with regard to my son. While I stood by his side year after year...from age 11 until about age 26/27...listening to his ranting and raving his life being totally and compeltely my fault...I feared him day in and day out.
My guilt is for who my son is today and what he could have been if his life had been better. I have a hard time forgiving myself for my part in all those years. He is damaged. I didn't realize until this past August that he even realized just how damaged he is, but he does. That realization was devastating to me.
So, I am a long way from forgiving myself. And, now he is heading to Iraq, where he will be embedded in the streets of Baghdad. I feel the pressure to work on my forgiveness...for myself and for him. What if something happens to him before I can accomplish this. It is a haunting question that runs around in my head.
So many topics to work through. I don't know where to start. How do I pick and choose. I try to stay focused week after week, but there is always something else.
Oh, I have taken responsibility for my life, especially with regard to my son. While I stood by his side year after year...from age 11 until about age 26/27...listening to his ranting and raving his life being totally and compeltely my fault...I feared him day in and day out.
My guilt is for who my son is today and what he could have been if his life had been better. I have a hard time forgiving myself for my part in all those years. He is damaged. I didn't realize until this past August that he even realized just how damaged he is, but he does. That realization was devastating to me.
So, I am a long way from forgiving myself. And, now he is heading to Iraq, where he will be embedded in the streets of Baghdad. I feel the pressure to work on my forgiveness...for myself and for him. What if something happens to him before I can accomplish this. It is a haunting question that runs around in my head.
So many topics to work through. I don't know where to start. How do I pick and choose. I try to stay focused week after week, but there is always something else.
ICC
02-23-2007, 04:24 PM
Hi gunner ---- I didn't think those types of movies would work for you. I must have misunderstood. I thought you said that's the only type you can watch. forgive me sometimes I read so fast that I miss something. Peace to you also.
orchardlady ---- Ok you have multiple issues going on. All I feel you can do at this point is acknowledge what you feel you have done wrong to hurt your son, validate his issues and your own and start from there. What I would do if I were you is feeling as youdo about seeing him off and having the unGodly fear of something God forbid happening I feel it would be a start in the right direction if you can't se him to write to him. Sit down with paper and pen and think of what you want to say. Think of what you would want him to know if you never saw him again. write it, feel it , cry while your doing it but please, please try to get it out for your sake and his. It could just be the start to something good and wonderful. It will take time to rebuid a relationship but the only way to do this is to start. I am a firm believer in writing as it clears the mind and soul and I have always found it easier to get my feelings out on paper so my thoughts aren't interupted. I'm sorry, my husband needs me for something. I will be back shortly and we can talk can talk somemore. I will help both of you in any way possible for I am here for anyone who needs me.
Love both of you,
Grasshopper
orchardlady ---- Ok you have multiple issues going on. All I feel you can do at this point is acknowledge what you feel you have done wrong to hurt your son, validate his issues and your own and start from there. What I would do if I were you is feeling as youdo about seeing him off and having the unGodly fear of something God forbid happening I feel it would be a start in the right direction if you can't se him to write to him. Sit down with paper and pen and think of what you want to say. Think of what you would want him to know if you never saw him again. write it, feel it , cry while your doing it but please, please try to get it out for your sake and his. It could just be the start to something good and wonderful. It will take time to rebuid a relationship but the only way to do this is to start. I am a firm believer in writing as it clears the mind and soul and I have always found it easier to get my feelings out on paper so my thoughts aren't interupted. I'm sorry, my husband needs me for something. I will be back shortly and we can talk can talk somemore. I will help both of you in any way possible for I am here for anyone who needs me.
Love both of you,
Grasshopper
stick2013
02-23-2007, 05:23 PM
Carolyn,
ICC has very good advice for you.....Even if you decide to see your son before he heads to Iraq(Which I hope that you can do) write the letter, and if you can't tell him how you feel, when he turns to leave GIVE him the letter, and ask him to read it, and keep it close to his heart while in Iraq.
I too have damaged my daughter, I have accepted this, and also told her that the abuse that I inflicted upon her was wrong. I was like a warden when she was growing up.....RULES, RULES, RULES..... I enforced them too. It wasn't all bad, she had friends over EVERY weekend, and sometimes during the week too. I used to say that we had a revolving door. Kids would come and go, every hour......I also spoiled her, with WAY to many material things. TV's, radios, she had everything a kid could want and more.......I was a crappy mother. I was dealt abuse when I was growing up, and left my daughter with that legacy also. I only hoped that it could end with her, but it hasn't. She is almost as bad as I was, and so I am afraid that I will take the guilt of yet another generation too. We ALWAYS do learn, but sometimes it is WAY to late.....
Write the letter, give it to your son, leave it in gods hands, and forgive yourself.......
Hugs,
Sid
ICC has very good advice for you.....Even if you decide to see your son before he heads to Iraq(Which I hope that you can do) write the letter, and if you can't tell him how you feel, when he turns to leave GIVE him the letter, and ask him to read it, and keep it close to his heart while in Iraq.
I too have damaged my daughter, I have accepted this, and also told her that the abuse that I inflicted upon her was wrong. I was like a warden when she was growing up.....RULES, RULES, RULES..... I enforced them too. It wasn't all bad, she had friends over EVERY weekend, and sometimes during the week too. I used to say that we had a revolving door. Kids would come and go, every hour......I also spoiled her, with WAY to many material things. TV's, radios, she had everything a kid could want and more.......I was a crappy mother. I was dealt abuse when I was growing up, and left my daughter with that legacy also. I only hoped that it could end with her, but it hasn't. She is almost as bad as I was, and so I am afraid that I will take the guilt of yet another generation too. We ALWAYS do learn, but sometimes it is WAY to late.....
Write the letter, give it to your son, leave it in gods hands, and forgive yourself.......
Hugs,
Sid
galinaqt
02-23-2007, 05:27 PM
Do you have "things" in your life make you want to run in the other direction when they happen?
Today I was telling Dr.Jim about my confusion with the fact that I can't watch...on TV or in real life...the simplest criticism, hurt to another person or animal, people being punished, etc. I also can't watch movies that end with "true love"; e.g. Sleepless in Seattle. If I watch them I end the movie sobbing for a couple of hours, so I haven't watched one in a long time.
Things as silly as American Idol. The nights when someone get voted off. There are times when I have to change the channel or turn off the TV. What is with this I asked? I can't watch The Apprentice all the way through because of the criticism and failure that happens in the middle. I can watch the beginning and the end of the board room, but not the middle 80%.
There is one instance that I witnessed once in person that haunts me in technicolor. I think of it often and it will not go away.
It happened back in 1992 or 1993 when I was working as a volunteer every Wednesday night for three hours in a large metropolitan level one trauma emergency room. All walks of life come through the triage...oh my goodness. One night, not unlike all the others, a mom came in with a crying 2/3 yr old in tow. The child was very upset. After telling this wee, sweet child to "Shut Up!" several times, she swung her arm and smacked the child square in the back with a flat open hand.
Then there is my startle reaction. It is so bad. I don't jump three feet, I jump six feet. And, over the smallest unseen, but heard, noise. And since my MVA in 1994, I am terrible in the car. My daughter...goodness...Mom, Stop it!. She can't understand why the smallest things make me jump...but only when I am not the drive...in control.
Classic PTSD! So, now it is on to working on why I avoid these things when they happen and what am I covering up by the avoidance.
All of the above has to do with my "Retreating" thread. I have decided to quit the attempt to be social until I have worked out these issue, which may take a very long time. It is just too difficult to talk myself into social occasions and then the aftermath of what I do to myself...just too much.
Anyone identify with all of this?
I have plenty of things happened to me when I wish I could run away, but can't.
I had real bad experience with supervisor at work. I can't watch "Apprentice". Minute I saw Tramp scolding people for not wearing jeans they were trying to sell; I switched the channel and that is it.
I don't want to see "Devil were prada" for same reason.
I can't handle it.
I can't see movies about antisemitism. I had plenty of that in my life.
I just fall apart when I saw them.
Does Dr. Jim your therapist?
It seems to me that many people have ptsd of some form. My cousin can't see tables, which looked as in summer camp she was abused by kids many years ago.
Today I was telling Dr.Jim about my confusion with the fact that I can't watch...on TV or in real life...the simplest criticism, hurt to another person or animal, people being punished, etc. I also can't watch movies that end with "true love"; e.g. Sleepless in Seattle. If I watch them I end the movie sobbing for a couple of hours, so I haven't watched one in a long time.
Things as silly as American Idol. The nights when someone get voted off. There are times when I have to change the channel or turn off the TV. What is with this I asked? I can't watch The Apprentice all the way through because of the criticism and failure that happens in the middle. I can watch the beginning and the end of the board room, but not the middle 80%.
There is one instance that I witnessed once in person that haunts me in technicolor. I think of it often and it will not go away.
It happened back in 1992 or 1993 when I was working as a volunteer every Wednesday night for three hours in a large metropolitan level one trauma emergency room. All walks of life come through the triage...oh my goodness. One night, not unlike all the others, a mom came in with a crying 2/3 yr old in tow. The child was very upset. After telling this wee, sweet child to "Shut Up!" several times, she swung her arm and smacked the child square in the back with a flat open hand.
Then there is my startle reaction. It is so bad. I don't jump three feet, I jump six feet. And, over the smallest unseen, but heard, noise. And since my MVA in 1994, I am terrible in the car. My daughter...goodness...Mom, Stop it!. She can't understand why the smallest things make me jump...but only when I am not the drive...in control.
Classic PTSD! So, now it is on to working on why I avoid these things when they happen and what am I covering up by the avoidance.
All of the above has to do with my "Retreating" thread. I have decided to quit the attempt to be social until I have worked out these issue, which may take a very long time. It is just too difficult to talk myself into social occasions and then the aftermath of what I do to myself...just too much.
Anyone identify with all of this?
I have plenty of things happened to me when I wish I could run away, but can't.
I had real bad experience with supervisor at work. I can't watch "Apprentice". Minute I saw Tramp scolding people for not wearing jeans they were trying to sell; I switched the channel and that is it.
I don't want to see "Devil were prada" for same reason.
I can't handle it.
I can't see movies about antisemitism. I had plenty of that in my life.
I just fall apart when I saw them.
Does Dr. Jim your therapist?
It seems to me that many people have ptsd of some form. My cousin can't see tables, which looked as in summer camp she was abused by kids many years ago.
orchardlady
02-23-2007, 06:08 PM
I need to explain a little bit about me and my son...about why I feel guilt for who he is today.
He also suffers from PTSD from his childhood, and having been the parent who was responsible for his teen years...the guilt and inability to forgive myself.
One of the Army psychologist he has seen told him he was not mentally fit for Iraq, but that the Army is sending him anyway. I worry about who he will be after Iraq.
At age 9...he became violent
Between 9 and 11, since his father couldn't deal with the issues at home, nor help me, and became an absent-father...saying, "what do you want me to do about IT" IT being our son. The entire household had already fallen on me, and I worked full-time.
At age 11...his father walked out on the family at 2am leaving me to tell the children
Two months later I attempted suicide. I was beyond the end of my rope.
We lost everything, and the children and I moved two times.
At age 12, after living with his father for three months, he was to move with his father 8 hours drive north of our home...his father was relocating due to a job change. Within an hour of piling in the car and driving the U-Haul truck away from the curb, my children's step mother decided he would not be moving with them. So he was abandoned on the curb and I got the call to come and get him. Can you even begin to imagine!
By age 14 he was so out of control...hole in walks, destroyed furniture, kicked in doors, etc...that he went into his first placement (I visited over the years every single opportunity that I was given; he visited home many times.)
By age 18 he had been in his fourth placement for six months.
At age 18, because of his continued behavior I was forced to have him literally dropped on the curb in a downtown metropolitan city. (You can only begin to imagine what that was like for me.)
Over the next two years he followed his father trying to gain his love and approval. He also spent many, many hours on collect calls with me, crying and hungry, having been robbed, etc.
At age 20, his father died. I spent a full day searching for him, found him and brought him home to bury his father with the family.
So, I didn't actually do anything to my son, but the pain I have for all that happened in those years is overwhelming and I can't talk about them in detail without sobbing, especially the forced homeless years.
I will reply a bit more later. I have to go cook dinner for the grandkids.
He also suffers from PTSD from his childhood, and having been the parent who was responsible for his teen years...the guilt and inability to forgive myself.
One of the Army psychologist he has seen told him he was not mentally fit for Iraq, but that the Army is sending him anyway. I worry about who he will be after Iraq.
At age 9...he became violent
Between 9 and 11, since his father couldn't deal with the issues at home, nor help me, and became an absent-father...saying, "what do you want me to do about IT" IT being our son. The entire household had already fallen on me, and I worked full-time.
At age 11...his father walked out on the family at 2am leaving me to tell the children
Two months later I attempted suicide. I was beyond the end of my rope.
We lost everything, and the children and I moved two times.
At age 12, after living with his father for three months, he was to move with his father 8 hours drive north of our home...his father was relocating due to a job change. Within an hour of piling in the car and driving the U-Haul truck away from the curb, my children's step mother decided he would not be moving with them. So he was abandoned on the curb and I got the call to come and get him. Can you even begin to imagine!
By age 14 he was so out of control...hole in walks, destroyed furniture, kicked in doors, etc...that he went into his first placement (I visited over the years every single opportunity that I was given; he visited home many times.)
By age 18 he had been in his fourth placement for six months.
At age 18, because of his continued behavior I was forced to have him literally dropped on the curb in a downtown metropolitan city. (You can only begin to imagine what that was like for me.)
Over the next two years he followed his father trying to gain his love and approval. He also spent many, many hours on collect calls with me, crying and hungry, having been robbed, etc.
At age 20, his father died. I spent a full day searching for him, found him and brought him home to bury his father with the family.
So, I didn't actually do anything to my son, but the pain I have for all that happened in those years is overwhelming and I can't talk about them in detail without sobbing, especially the forced homeless years.
I will reply a bit more later. I have to go cook dinner for the grandkids.
orchardlady
02-23-2007, 06:40 PM
Yes, Dr.Jim...as I call him here...is my thearpist.
I will consider the letter, which is a great idea. I know my son well enough to know that he doesn't like to talk about the past anymore. He has also stopped verbally blaming me that his whole life is s__ and it is all my fault.
The other component of this whole issue is our recent discussion about what to do if the worst happens to him. He wants to be buried in the cemetary his father is in. I told him NO!! Absolutely NOT! I will bury him in Arlington, which is a place he likes to visit...odd I know, but the military is special to him. It is the only place he can be successful...totaly structured. So, we bantered about the cemetary thing...I will continue to think on it...and hope I never have to make that decision.
Back later...back to the kitchen,
Carolyn
I will consider the letter, which is a great idea. I know my son well enough to know that he doesn't like to talk about the past anymore. He has also stopped verbally blaming me that his whole life is s__ and it is all my fault.
The other component of this whole issue is our recent discussion about what to do if the worst happens to him. He wants to be buried in the cemetary his father is in. I told him NO!! Absolutely NOT! I will bury him in Arlington, which is a place he likes to visit...odd I know, but the military is special to him. It is the only place he can be successful...totaly structured. So, we bantered about the cemetary thing...I will continue to think on it...and hope I never have to make that decision.
Back later...back to the kitchen,
Carolyn
stick2013
02-23-2007, 07:26 PM
Carolyn,
What I don't understand is the guilt that you carry for a lot of what your husband DIDN'T DO........ He wasn't a father, and that's what your son desperately wanted and needed. He is STILL looking for his father's approval to this day from what I can gather from this post. I understand having some guilt about placing him in a placement, but only to a degree.... Apparently YOU HAD TO......We have to do things in life that aren't always pleasant, or easy, but it is something that we have to do....... It sounds to me like maybe YOUR SON needs to GROW UP, and start taking RESPONSIBILITY for HIS actions......I believe this of my daughter also. Just because I wasn't a terrific parent, it dosen't give her the RIGHT to use this as an excuse for her life. WE ALL make CHOICES as ADULTS that WE are RESPONSIBILE for......You know this.
Try and retink this issue, ans STOP blaming yourself. You did what you had to do......I dosen't mean that you or anyone else should PUNISH you for the rest of your life.......
Hugs,
Sid
What I don't understand is the guilt that you carry for a lot of what your husband DIDN'T DO........ He wasn't a father, and that's what your son desperately wanted and needed. He is STILL looking for his father's approval to this day from what I can gather from this post. I understand having some guilt about placing him in a placement, but only to a degree.... Apparently YOU HAD TO......We have to do things in life that aren't always pleasant, or easy, but it is something that we have to do....... It sounds to me like maybe YOUR SON needs to GROW UP, and start taking RESPONSIBILITY for HIS actions......I believe this of my daughter also. Just because I wasn't a terrific parent, it dosen't give her the RIGHT to use this as an excuse for her life. WE ALL make CHOICES as ADULTS that WE are RESPONSIBILE for......You know this.
Try and retink this issue, ans STOP blaming yourself. You did what you had to do......I dosen't mean that you or anyone else should PUNISH you for the rest of your life.......
Hugs,
Sid
zencat
02-23-2007, 11:24 PM
Hi :wave: :) Orchard Lady
I still have problems with confrontation. Not as bad as before, but still very difficult. I get a bit shaky when I stand up for myself. Where as before, I would do just about anything to run away.
Startle response.
I see that often with PTS. I see how that could be a problem. I cant imagine being catapulted into high anxiety from a calm moment so radically. If anything I am way to much the other way. I can see myself not moving even if a speeding car would somehow be coming my way. I have seem to watch with extreme detachment when danger has come my way in the past.
The one subject you bring up that I can identify with all too well is “retreating”. I know what that is. that’s for sure. That anguish you experience when seeing others in love is more than one can endure at times. It was true of me. Even being in a room full of people and experiencing that acute loneliness is cause for retreat, I understand. I believe we all know what we need to do. And it is hard to explain to others that taking a time out from all the stressors that cause distress is needed. We do need time to recoup, regroup and resume at a different pace than most. I am hopeful for you, as you search for the inner calm, in a time of quiet reflection, the answers will come.
One thing that has helped me greatly, is being in an environment where there are times of calm, a place of peace. Recognizing my relation to being in a place of peaceful surroundings helped me be aware of that place within me. Years ago people in psychological distress were taken to a farm, in the country, surrounded by a pastoral setting. Healing would occur. The therapeutic power of a quiet setting has for the most been lost today. The places that we as people with PTS go to for healing is a shame. The cold, impersonal, noisy, beauty less, lock-down chambers that professional caregivers expect us to heal in, is unbelievable.
I hope to get to know you better, My posting can be a bit sporadic, so bare with me on that. Some days I am so detached :dizzy: that responding to thoughtful matters is awfully difficult at times.
Sid is spot on, talking with compssion is as good as the best meds.
Zencat.
I still have problems with confrontation. Not as bad as before, but still very difficult. I get a bit shaky when I stand up for myself. Where as before, I would do just about anything to run away.
Startle response.
I see that often with PTS. I see how that could be a problem. I cant imagine being catapulted into high anxiety from a calm moment so radically. If anything I am way to much the other way. I can see myself not moving even if a speeding car would somehow be coming my way. I have seem to watch with extreme detachment when danger has come my way in the past.
The one subject you bring up that I can identify with all too well is “retreating”. I know what that is. that’s for sure. That anguish you experience when seeing others in love is more than one can endure at times. It was true of me. Even being in a room full of people and experiencing that acute loneliness is cause for retreat, I understand. I believe we all know what we need to do. And it is hard to explain to others that taking a time out from all the stressors that cause distress is needed. We do need time to recoup, regroup and resume at a different pace than most. I am hopeful for you, as you search for the inner calm, in a time of quiet reflection, the answers will come.
One thing that has helped me greatly, is being in an environment where there are times of calm, a place of peace. Recognizing my relation to being in a place of peaceful surroundings helped me be aware of that place within me. Years ago people in psychological distress were taken to a farm, in the country, surrounded by a pastoral setting. Healing would occur. The therapeutic power of a quiet setting has for the most been lost today. The places that we as people with PTS go to for healing is a shame. The cold, impersonal, noisy, beauty less, lock-down chambers that professional caregivers expect us to heal in, is unbelievable.
I hope to get to know you better, My posting can be a bit sporadic, so bare with me on that. Some days I am so detached :dizzy: that responding to thoughtful matters is awfully difficult at times.
Sid is spot on, talking with compssion is as good as the best meds.
Zencat.
stick2013
02-24-2007, 08:03 AM
Zencat,
You wrote......Years ago people in psychological distress were taken to a farm, in the country, surrounded by a pastoral setting. Healing would occur. The therapeutic power of a quiet setting has for the most been lost today.
I think this is why most people with PTSD seek to retreat. To have the calming effect within their own 4 walls. I CAN'T have ANY form of DYSFUNCTION around me now. I just can't. The MINUTE I feel any form of dysfunction, confrontation, arguments, or disruption, I feel my world spin out of control. I feel the flashbacks lurking on the edge, my heart starts to race, I get nervous, and the FLIGHT sets in.....If I don't run then and there I know I am in big trouble....I lived a chaotic life for 40 yrs, I know my mind and body better than anyone, and I know what I NEED to survive.... That I can sum up in ONE word.......PEACE!!!!!!!!
So I wish nothing but PEACE for each and everyone of us on this board.....
Love,
Sid
You wrote......Years ago people in psychological distress were taken to a farm, in the country, surrounded by a pastoral setting. Healing would occur. The therapeutic power of a quiet setting has for the most been lost today.
I think this is why most people with PTSD seek to retreat. To have the calming effect within their own 4 walls. I CAN'T have ANY form of DYSFUNCTION around me now. I just can't. The MINUTE I feel any form of dysfunction, confrontation, arguments, or disruption, I feel my world spin out of control. I feel the flashbacks lurking on the edge, my heart starts to race, I get nervous, and the FLIGHT sets in.....If I don't run then and there I know I am in big trouble....I lived a chaotic life for 40 yrs, I know my mind and body better than anyone, and I know what I NEED to survive.... That I can sum up in ONE word.......PEACE!!!!!!!!
So I wish nothing but PEACE for each and everyone of us on this board.....
Love,
Sid
ICC
02-24-2007, 08:55 AM
Hi all -- You know it still amazes me how one of us starts something and all jump in with something to add that becomes so very beneficial when put together, to all of us. Sid I am like your sister in this one. I have had trauma, drama and dysfunction around me all my life. I can't stand it anymore and remove myself from it immediately. I spent the past 3 years around it on a daily basis at work. Day in and day out it would start before i had my coat off. Will never go back to it. It makes me shake and if I run fast enough i'm good if not I WILL dissociate so i'm away from it one way or another. Doing good not disacciating recently. it's been months. so I know I am becoming successful at getting myself out of the situation immediatley. I cannot stand crowds, loud voices or any type of chaous (sorry i can't spell today)
Zen --- it's nice to see you. Everything OK? I like the "garbage in, garbage out"
Carolyn ---- after reading your last post i have to agree with Sid. It appears you have taken on the guilt and responsibility for what your son's father did to both of you. I have also lived a bad marriage for 25 years with my daughters' father. There are times it jumps in my ming if I did the right thing by staying. right or wron I did what i had to /could do. Did my best with what I had to work with. I have talked to my kids and apologized for keeping them in the environement for so long and they have all understood. I don't see where you and your son are anywhere near over. He has gotten help and so have you. Now you have to be there for each other. Write the letter. Let him know your feelings, how you did the best with what you knew and had, tell him how much you love him and let life take it from there. You can't do anymore but need to clear your head about what you are accountable for and what the father was accountable for. You cannot take repsonsibility for someone else's actions. you have enough .
Hugs,
Grasshopper
Zen --- it's nice to see you. Everything OK? I like the "garbage in, garbage out"
Carolyn ---- after reading your last post i have to agree with Sid. It appears you have taken on the guilt and responsibility for what your son's father did to both of you. I have also lived a bad marriage for 25 years with my daughters' father. There are times it jumps in my ming if I did the right thing by staying. right or wron I did what i had to /could do. Did my best with what I had to work with. I have talked to my kids and apologized for keeping them in the environement for so long and they have all understood. I don't see where you and your son are anywhere near over. He has gotten help and so have you. Now you have to be there for each other. Write the letter. Let him know your feelings, how you did the best with what you knew and had, tell him how much you love him and let life take it from there. You can't do anymore but need to clear your head about what you are accountable for and what the father was accountable for. You cannot take repsonsibility for someone else's actions. you have enough .
Hugs,
Grasshopper
orchardlady
02-24-2007, 12:01 PM
All of you...there are too many quotes I would like to reply too. All are right-on!
I have talked to my kids and apologized for keeping them in the environement for so long and they have all understood. I don't see where you and your son are anywhere near over.
I will return later to reply when I can calm down a bit from the reading to put my words together better.
Carolyn
I have talked to my kids and apologized for keeping them in the environement for so long and they have all understood. I don't see where you and your son are anywhere near over.
I will return later to reply when I can calm down a bit from the reading to put my words together better.
Carolyn
orchardlady
02-24-2007, 11:15 PM
What a wonderful thing it would be..."people in psychological distress were taken to a farm, in the country, surrounded by a pastoral setting. Healing would occur."
Nikki, you have an excellent point here..."I think this is why most people with PTSD seek to retreat." As long as it doesn't become a daily habit, which I suppose wouldn't be a good thing.
Grasshopper wrote: after reading your last post i have to agree with Sid. It appears you have taken on the guilt and responsibility for what your son's father did to both of you.
I don't see where you and your son are anywhere near over. He has gotten help and so have you. Now you have to be there for each other. Write the letter. Let him know your feelings, how you did the best with what you knew and had, tell him how much you love him and let life take it from there. You can't do anymore but need to clear your head about what you are accountable for and what the father was accountable for. You cannot take repsonsibility for someone else's actions. you have enough .
I will begin to pen a letter. I gave him an arrival date today of March 27th...so I have four weeks to write it in. I have no idea what I will say, but it will come. I have not idea right now if I will take it with me, but the writing of it will tell me.
You are all right about his father. While his father was not a part of our lives during the majority of the difficult years with my son, he was a silent partner indeed. I don't know what has hurt and haunted me the most all these years now...
...the putting him in placement because I couldn't handle him any longer (for which is realizes he never had teenage years; hence, he doesn't know how to have a relationship, and I don't know how to help him with this
...the forcing him to live on the street for two years (where he never got arrested, did drugs or alcohol...completely amazing...he is a survivor too)
...my fear of him and the next blow to come; freezing in my steps or chair when his outbursts started...like living my childhood all over again through my son
You can't even begin to imagine the horror, terror and self-incrimination I went through over the second one!! No one in the family wanted him and I was the only one who could make the choice...home or street.
Nikki, you have an excellent point here..."I think this is why most people with PTSD seek to retreat." As long as it doesn't become a daily habit, which I suppose wouldn't be a good thing.
Grasshopper wrote: after reading your last post i have to agree with Sid. It appears you have taken on the guilt and responsibility for what your son's father did to both of you.
I don't see where you and your son are anywhere near over. He has gotten help and so have you. Now you have to be there for each other. Write the letter. Let him know your feelings, how you did the best with what you knew and had, tell him how much you love him and let life take it from there. You can't do anymore but need to clear your head about what you are accountable for and what the father was accountable for. You cannot take repsonsibility for someone else's actions. you have enough .
I will begin to pen a letter. I gave him an arrival date today of March 27th...so I have four weeks to write it in. I have no idea what I will say, but it will come. I have not idea right now if I will take it with me, but the writing of it will tell me.
You are all right about his father. While his father was not a part of our lives during the majority of the difficult years with my son, he was a silent partner indeed. I don't know what has hurt and haunted me the most all these years now...
...the putting him in placement because I couldn't handle him any longer (for which is realizes he never had teenage years; hence, he doesn't know how to have a relationship, and I don't know how to help him with this
...the forcing him to live on the street for two years (where he never got arrested, did drugs or alcohol...completely amazing...he is a survivor too)
...my fear of him and the next blow to come; freezing in my steps or chair when his outbursts started...like living my childhood all over again through my son
You can't even begin to imagine the horror, terror and self-incrimination I went through over the second one!! No one in the family wanted him and I was the only one who could make the choice...home or street.
stick2013
02-25-2007, 07:32 AM
Carolyn,
You know that the "OUTBURST" are his, and he needs to be responsibil for them. I
How long has he been in the service???? It could be a good thing that will teach him control, or it could be a bad thing that will unleash his temper even more. Who knows, but you are NO LONGER responsible for his actions. Yes he is your son, and I am sure you love him, but he is a full grown man that needs to address his issues.
I hope the best for him, and for you. Write your letter, give it to him, and leave the rest to god.
Hugs,
Sid
You know that the "OUTBURST" are his, and he needs to be responsibil for them. I
How long has he been in the service???? It could be a good thing that will teach him control, or it could be a bad thing that will unleash his temper even more. Who knows, but you are NO LONGER responsible for his actions. Yes he is your son, and I am sure you love him, but he is a full grown man that needs to address his issues.
I hope the best for him, and for you. Write your letter, give it to him, and leave the rest to god.
Hugs,
Sid
ICC
02-25-2007, 08:54 AM
good morning Carolyn **** Sid is dead on the money. You and your son both know you have issues but as adults must take care of your own before you can help/support each other and have any sort of healthy relationship. I am so glad you have planned a date to visit. Write your letter, bring it with you, mail it first so he has read it before you arrive. Being in the service as Sid said can go one way or the other. the discipline is great and brings alot of young men back home with more stability BUT it could also unleash that pent up anger at which point I would hope his supervisors notice and do something about it. Some of the best Dr.s in the sevice that he could turn to are Vets and understand more than we know. When I said you did the best you could with what you knew and had I meant it. whether you have regrets or not you have to accept your choices as at the time you could do know more. You know all that's said about hindsight??? wish we all had it. life would have been very different for all of us. Will be anticipating the 27th and praying along with you and all of your friends here. Sid, FTM and myself took nikki to the Dr.s, believe me we can take a trip with you also.;)
Love and peace of mind,
Grasshopper
Love and peace of mind,
Grasshopper
Sannah
02-25-2007, 10:29 AM
Carolyn, now i understand what went on with your son. You did the very, very best that you could, okay! You were there for him doing the best that you could! To me, he sounded angry (probably toward his father) and when I hear you saying that when he would have an outburst you would be fearful it also brings something to mind.
I did child protection for a few years and there was one mother whose family our whole office was familiar with. When I started there, all the other workers were afraid of her because of her outbursts. Since I grew up in a home where everyone was ignored, no one interacted, and there was never any screaming, outbursts didn't push any buttons for me (my confrontation reaction wasn't triggered here because at work I was not dealing with my needs, here I was dealing with the needs of the clients). She didn't affect me and I was not afraid of her. I would interact with her and deal with whatever issues she had. The fact that I wasn't afraid of her calmed her immensely. She really liked me a lot even though I reported info to the courts which was not in her favor.
So the way that I see it, your fear of your son was very disturbing for him and made him more upset. I am not telling you this to make you more upset. YOU COULD NOT STOP HOW YOU FELT. He was triggering fear in you because of your past. IT WAS NOT YOUR FAULT THAT YOUR FATHER MADE YOU WHO YOU WERE. I am only telling you this so that you can heal with your son today. Your son will not hurt you. You do not have to be afraid of him. Remember, that the fear that he is triggering is fear that you have for your father. Your son is not your father.
I did child protection for a few years and there was one mother whose family our whole office was familiar with. When I started there, all the other workers were afraid of her because of her outbursts. Since I grew up in a home where everyone was ignored, no one interacted, and there was never any screaming, outbursts didn't push any buttons for me (my confrontation reaction wasn't triggered here because at work I was not dealing with my needs, here I was dealing with the needs of the clients). She didn't affect me and I was not afraid of her. I would interact with her and deal with whatever issues she had. The fact that I wasn't afraid of her calmed her immensely. She really liked me a lot even though I reported info to the courts which was not in her favor.
So the way that I see it, your fear of your son was very disturbing for him and made him more upset. I am not telling you this to make you more upset. YOU COULD NOT STOP HOW YOU FELT. He was triggering fear in you because of your past. IT WAS NOT YOUR FAULT THAT YOUR FATHER MADE YOU WHO YOU WERE. I am only telling you this so that you can heal with your son today. Your son will not hurt you. You do not have to be afraid of him. Remember, that the fear that he is triggering is fear that you have for your father. Your son is not your father.
Sannah
02-25-2007, 12:20 PM
Just another thought, with your son Carolyn and with the client that I had, I think with their outbursts that they had, that they were afraid and when others responded with fear, they did not get the comfort that they were seeking. When I responded to this mother without fear she was able to find comfort. Again, please do not beat yourself up for what you COULDN'T give to your son. I have also made mistakes with my daughters. NO ONE is a perfect parent.
orchardlady
02-25-2007, 12:43 PM
...and today we still trigger each other, only I am the one who see it.
My son's first placement at age 14 was with a non-porfit youth alternative program in central Florida. It took our phycholgist and a social worker and a couple of interviews to get him in there. The hardest part was that my son had to literally sign on the dotted line, signing himself into the program. It was a scarry day for me, and my in-laws, who were my support system for this placement, went with us that day. I remember the day the whole team of us sat on my living room floor, my son choice of a place to chat, and talked for three hours to him about going into the camp...this inlcuded our wonderful physhologist, who my know had known me for 10 years. The point I am tryign to get to is that this placement was a extremely structed environment, where the boys had to place every minute of their day, cook their own food, etc...while living a mile from the primary building in a spleeping bag campsite, with a latrine. I honestly believe the the survival skills he learned in that camp set him up for survival on the street from age 18 to age 20.
The Army...a very structured environment...after his father died he lived with me for two year and tried to work in the regular world. He was not successful, so he went in the Army. He had gotten his GED while in his last placement. He stayed the contracted two-years. Then he got out...as with everything in his life...everyone in the Army was "stupid". He has always used the "stupid" thing to discribe what he has a hard time understand and connecting with...his way of not taking on his responsibility and/or his way of not wanting to see his own inadequecies.
So, is was back home again. After a while he decided to move out on his own. He spent the two years trying once again to work in the regular world. Bills, like rent and electricity, were not important to him. He had two cars repoed, etc.
Then one day he called me and said, "Mom, I'm going to do what you wanted me to do." As you can see, even though we had not discussed it, he made the decision but didn't want to own the decision. So, he is now back in the Army, where I hope he will never leave. He lives in a barracks room, immediately over his office.
The only thing I have done for him in a long long time was to help him with his checking account...maintenance, balancing. A year ago he finally took that over..again...and is doing a pretty good job of it...not too much overdrawing. So everything is in his hands now, including this cable and phone being turned off, "why do we have to have bills!"
To this day I don't enjoy talking to him on the phone...years old hangups on my part...and I know it. Sometimes he can hear it in my voice, "Mom, are you in a hurry or something."
So, yes I know we both have many issues...personal and joint...to work on. But, at this point The Letter is all I can do. The balance will have to wait until he returns from Iraq, at which time I hope upon hope that he will not be worse off than he is now.
In my heart I know it is not my fault my father was who he was, and is, and I became who I am.
In my heart I know my children's father caused all of us so much damage.
In my heart I know I am not fully responsible for my son. Year after years hearing him yell and scream at me about how his life was ALL my fault...it is hard to let go of that echo. The person buried in central FL is the primary culprit, I only could do what was able to do, keeping the interest of three seperate parties in mind...me, my son and his sisters. No one can know how hard it was for me to be on one hand, trying to recover my sanity from attempting sucide, while on the other hand trying to help and protect my daughter's from their father and their brother, run a household, work full-time, and suffer at the hands of my son hour to hour, day after day.
It is my head that needs to BELIEVE! I know that.
Bless the :angel: of this board.
You are all :angel:
Other than a psychologist, I have never, ever had anyone to talk to about my life...the first 56 years...and now the last 2 years of trying, not very successfully, to learn to accept help for anything.
My son's first placement at age 14 was with a non-porfit youth alternative program in central Florida. It took our phycholgist and a social worker and a couple of interviews to get him in there. The hardest part was that my son had to literally sign on the dotted line, signing himself into the program. It was a scarry day for me, and my in-laws, who were my support system for this placement, went with us that day. I remember the day the whole team of us sat on my living room floor, my son choice of a place to chat, and talked for three hours to him about going into the camp...this inlcuded our wonderful physhologist, who my know had known me for 10 years. The point I am tryign to get to is that this placement was a extremely structed environment, where the boys had to place every minute of their day, cook their own food, etc...while living a mile from the primary building in a spleeping bag campsite, with a latrine. I honestly believe the the survival skills he learned in that camp set him up for survival on the street from age 18 to age 20.
The Army...a very structured environment...after his father died he lived with me for two year and tried to work in the regular world. He was not successful, so he went in the Army. He had gotten his GED while in his last placement. He stayed the contracted two-years. Then he got out...as with everything in his life...everyone in the Army was "stupid". He has always used the "stupid" thing to discribe what he has a hard time understand and connecting with...his way of not taking on his responsibility and/or his way of not wanting to see his own inadequecies.
So, is was back home again. After a while he decided to move out on his own. He spent the two years trying once again to work in the regular world. Bills, like rent and electricity, were not important to him. He had two cars repoed, etc.
Then one day he called me and said, "Mom, I'm going to do what you wanted me to do." As you can see, even though we had not discussed it, he made the decision but didn't want to own the decision. So, he is now back in the Army, where I hope he will never leave. He lives in a barracks room, immediately over his office.
The only thing I have done for him in a long long time was to help him with his checking account...maintenance, balancing. A year ago he finally took that over..again...and is doing a pretty good job of it...not too much overdrawing. So everything is in his hands now, including this cable and phone being turned off, "why do we have to have bills!"
To this day I don't enjoy talking to him on the phone...years old hangups on my part...and I know it. Sometimes he can hear it in my voice, "Mom, are you in a hurry or something."
So, yes I know we both have many issues...personal and joint...to work on. But, at this point The Letter is all I can do. The balance will have to wait until he returns from Iraq, at which time I hope upon hope that he will not be worse off than he is now.
In my heart I know it is not my fault my father was who he was, and is, and I became who I am.
In my heart I know my children's father caused all of us so much damage.
In my heart I know I am not fully responsible for my son. Year after years hearing him yell and scream at me about how his life was ALL my fault...it is hard to let go of that echo. The person buried in central FL is the primary culprit, I only could do what was able to do, keeping the interest of three seperate parties in mind...me, my son and his sisters. No one can know how hard it was for me to be on one hand, trying to recover my sanity from attempting sucide, while on the other hand trying to help and protect my daughter's from their father and their brother, run a household, work full-time, and suffer at the hands of my son hour to hour, day after day.
It is my head that needs to BELIEVE! I know that.
Bless the :angel: of this board.
You are all :angel:
Other than a psychologist, I have never, ever had anyone to talk to about my life...the first 56 years...and now the last 2 years of trying, not very successfully, to learn to accept help for anything.
stick2013
02-25-2007, 02:16 PM
Dear Carolyn,
My life from the earliest age that I can remember.....I think age 5, abuse, beatings, phones broken over my head, plates, and hairbrushes broken over my head and arms. Beatings with a belt more times than I care to remember. My mothers favorite was to DRAG me by my hair and pull clumps out. One time she had my brother in law come over(he was 6'2 )I think I was 11, and my brothers were 12 and 13. My mother had him BEAT THE S*** out of all 3 of us. I was also sexually abused by both of my brothers, my mother called me a liar when I told her, and said that I deserved it. I was age 15 then. I started to act out, and drink heavy. I was gang raped at a college at age 16 or 17. Got pregnant at age 17, had my daughter just after turning 18, I abused my daughter through punishment and screaming daily....I didn't lean until it was too late. I have attempted suicide 8 times in my life, the guilt is overwhelming, but at times the depression and PTSD get the best of me, and I head for the pills. Several times I almost made it, the next time I WILL.................................... ............
She blames me for her entire life also. I take responsibility for about 75% of it, the rest is hers. Your son also needs to be responsible for his.
So do I know what you have been through??????? YES........Have I learned to deal with the guilt???? YES.....Have I told my daughter how sorry that I am???? YES. Have I valadated her feelings??? YES.....Will it change anything????? NO. But I know today that I did the best that I could with what I had.......
Sid
My life from the earliest age that I can remember.....I think age 5, abuse, beatings, phones broken over my head, plates, and hairbrushes broken over my head and arms. Beatings with a belt more times than I care to remember. My mothers favorite was to DRAG me by my hair and pull clumps out. One time she had my brother in law come over(he was 6'2 )I think I was 11, and my brothers were 12 and 13. My mother had him BEAT THE S*** out of all 3 of us. I was also sexually abused by both of my brothers, my mother called me a liar when I told her, and said that I deserved it. I was age 15 then. I started to act out, and drink heavy. I was gang raped at a college at age 16 or 17. Got pregnant at age 17, had my daughter just after turning 18, I abused my daughter through punishment and screaming daily....I didn't lean until it was too late. I have attempted suicide 8 times in my life, the guilt is overwhelming, but at times the depression and PTSD get the best of me, and I head for the pills. Several times I almost made it, the next time I WILL.................................... ............
She blames me for her entire life also. I take responsibility for about 75% of it, the rest is hers. Your son also needs to be responsible for his.
So do I know what you have been through??????? YES........Have I learned to deal with the guilt???? YES.....Have I told my daughter how sorry that I am???? YES. Have I valadated her feelings??? YES.....Will it change anything????? NO. But I know today that I did the best that I could with what I had.......
Sid
Sannah
02-26-2007, 11:56 AM
I have attempted suicide 8 times in my life, the guilt is overwhelming, but at times the depression and PTSD get the best of me, and I head for the pills. Several times I almost made it, the next time I WILL.................................... ............
Sid, what does this last line mean?
Sid, what does this last line mean?
Sannah
02-26-2007, 11:57 AM
Carolyn, how are you today?
ICC
02-26-2007, 01:23 PM
Yeh Sid ---- would you speculate on that last statement a little more? You know where to come if you EVER feel that down and out. Don't make me use your bat.:dizzy:
love you,
Grasshopper
love you,
Grasshopper
stick2013
02-26-2007, 04:05 PM
Hi Guys,
Ok I settle things with this issue....I have HATED LIFE since I was 15. I have wanted out of this crap filled world since then. I have tried 8 times, and failed 8 times. One of the times( and I have never told anyone this) All I remember is taking an over dose, and then my grandfather was there. He told me that I had to go back, that it wasn't my time yet..... I remember the peace, the feeling of true peace, contentment, and WANTING to stay. I begged him!!!!!!! He smile and say go......Was it a dream???? Was it real? I don't know, but the feeling of true peace, I will NEVER forget, and I long for it. I just want to go HOME!!!!!! I know it sounds so STUPID, because I have come so far with getting my head on straight, but I LONG to go HOME......
My depression, and PTSD when it gets the best of me, I feel like I am in a pit, that I can't climb out of, and when I can't function anymore, I head for my supply.......I can't promise ANYONE including myself that I will never attempt it again. The pull becomes too strong, and I have the need, and the means.
So there you have it, my honest reply.......Never ask a question, that you may NOT want to hear the answer too....
Love you all,
Sid
Ok I settle things with this issue....I have HATED LIFE since I was 15. I have wanted out of this crap filled world since then. I have tried 8 times, and failed 8 times. One of the times( and I have never told anyone this) All I remember is taking an over dose, and then my grandfather was there. He told me that I had to go back, that it wasn't my time yet..... I remember the peace, the feeling of true peace, contentment, and WANTING to stay. I begged him!!!!!!! He smile and say go......Was it a dream???? Was it real? I don't know, but the feeling of true peace, I will NEVER forget, and I long for it. I just want to go HOME!!!!!! I know it sounds so STUPID, because I have come so far with getting my head on straight, but I LONG to go HOME......
My depression, and PTSD when it gets the best of me, I feel like I am in a pit, that I can't climb out of, and when I can't function anymore, I head for my supply.......I can't promise ANYONE including myself that I will never attempt it again. The pull becomes too strong, and I have the need, and the means.
So there you have it, my honest reply.......Never ask a question, that you may NOT want to hear the answer too....
Love you all,
Sid
orchardlady
02-26-2007, 09:17 PM
Sid,
Escaping is not an option!! Do you hear that? Do you hear me? :nono:
When I attempted in November 1985 I was desperate, emotionally drained of every ouch of gumption I could find. How is not important. The details about why are not important.
Like you probably have, from the sounds of it, I have a list of how-to, and it is a very long list. I mull it over from time to time, but I don't intend to ever follow through again.
I have found one focus in my life that keeps me grounded on planet earth. There is ONLY ONE. ONE is all I need!
Can you name two or three people, places, animals, etc. in you life that you care about, even just a little bit. Tell us about each of them. Why do you care about them.
Don't tell us there is nothing in your life you care about, because we all have something. It may not be something that is in our life on a daily basis, may not even live close by, but it is there. Before you reply, give it a long thought...maybe even a whole day of thinking. Get a piece of paper and write what comes into your head. Don't think to hard about it, so hard you find a reason not to write it down, just write it when you think of it.
Along with all the other things I deal with, I too deal with Major Depression. It is a nasty thing to deal with...right!!
Let me describe my deepest depression experience, and I have been there more times than you can imagine.
There is the pit. One can't see the bottom, it is darker than dark. The edges are abrupt and smooth, with no hand holds. It is very, very easy to get into the pit...oh, so easy. It is the getting out that is the challenge.
Getting out takes so much energy, sometimes it doesn't seem worth expending the energy. Over the years I have taught myself to deal with my pit like this. When I am there I forget about everything else in my head. I concentrate on getting out. It is the only "task" I have. There are no bills to pay, no grocery shopping to do, no phone calls to answer...they are there, but not while I am in the pit. My JOB while I am there...warm and comfortable as it is in there...is to GET OUT.
So, it may be a few hours, or a couple of days, but I know what my JOB is and I do it. I usually break a few fingernails clinging to the edge at the top, pulling and tugging my self out, but I do manage to complete the task, stand on my feet and move forward...one step, then another step.
Your life is what your thoughts make it. --Aurelius, Marcus
This is life...you only get one. We don't get to choose our life, but we do get to live it.
Consider this...
I don't want to get to the end of my life and find that I have just lived the length of it. I want to have lived the width of it as well. --Diane Ackerman
Personally, I don't want to get to the end of my life journey knowing I just spent my time putting one foot in front of the other (the length). I want to get to the end of my life knowing I learned to take care of myself, to forgive myself, to love myself, to step from the path from time to time to enjoy even small things...sometimes the small things are the most important...learn to look up rather than down, because the sun shines even on cloudy days.
And as you know from my postings, I am not all there yet. I am still trying to do all of the above, and it may take me 10 more years, but I am determined to get there...the width!
Escaping is not an option!! Do you hear that? Do you hear me? :nono:
When I attempted in November 1985 I was desperate, emotionally drained of every ouch of gumption I could find. How is not important. The details about why are not important.
Like you probably have, from the sounds of it, I have a list of how-to, and it is a very long list. I mull it over from time to time, but I don't intend to ever follow through again.
I have found one focus in my life that keeps me grounded on planet earth. There is ONLY ONE. ONE is all I need!
Can you name two or three people, places, animals, etc. in you life that you care about, even just a little bit. Tell us about each of them. Why do you care about them.
Don't tell us there is nothing in your life you care about, because we all have something. It may not be something that is in our life on a daily basis, may not even live close by, but it is there. Before you reply, give it a long thought...maybe even a whole day of thinking. Get a piece of paper and write what comes into your head. Don't think to hard about it, so hard you find a reason not to write it down, just write it when you think of it.
Along with all the other things I deal with, I too deal with Major Depression. It is a nasty thing to deal with...right!!
Let me describe my deepest depression experience, and I have been there more times than you can imagine.
There is the pit. One can't see the bottom, it is darker than dark. The edges are abrupt and smooth, with no hand holds. It is very, very easy to get into the pit...oh, so easy. It is the getting out that is the challenge.
Getting out takes so much energy, sometimes it doesn't seem worth expending the energy. Over the years I have taught myself to deal with my pit like this. When I am there I forget about everything else in my head. I concentrate on getting out. It is the only "task" I have. There are no bills to pay, no grocery shopping to do, no phone calls to answer...they are there, but not while I am in the pit. My JOB while I am there...warm and comfortable as it is in there...is to GET OUT.
So, it may be a few hours, or a couple of days, but I know what my JOB is and I do it. I usually break a few fingernails clinging to the edge at the top, pulling and tugging my self out, but I do manage to complete the task, stand on my feet and move forward...one step, then another step.
Your life is what your thoughts make it. --Aurelius, Marcus
This is life...you only get one. We don't get to choose our life, but we do get to live it.
Consider this...
I don't want to get to the end of my life and find that I have just lived the length of it. I want to have lived the width of it as well. --Diane Ackerman
Personally, I don't want to get to the end of my life journey knowing I just spent my time putting one foot in front of the other (the length). I want to get to the end of my life knowing I learned to take care of myself, to forgive myself, to love myself, to step from the path from time to time to enjoy even small things...sometimes the small things are the most important...learn to look up rather than down, because the sun shines even on cloudy days.
And as you know from my postings, I am not all there yet. I am still trying to do all of the above, and it may take me 10 more years, but I am determined to get there...the width!
orchardlady
02-26-2007, 09:22 PM
And if you aren't sure why I wrote the post above...
I have attempted suicide 8 times in my life, the guilt is overwhelming, but at times the depression and PTSD get the best of me, and I head for the pills. Several times I almost made it, the next time I WILL.................................... ............
I have attempted suicide 8 times in my life, the guilt is overwhelming, but at times the depression and PTSD get the best of me, and I head for the pills. Several times I almost made it, the next time I WILL.................................... ............
stick2013
02-26-2007, 10:36 PM
Carolyn,
You asked me to list those things that mean the most to me..The ones that I would lay my own life down for, the ones that were my life. The ones that kept me going.....Their names are Steven and Michael. My 2 grandsons that I haven't been allowed to see in 4 yrs. My daughter and I had a huge, nasty fight, and this is her punishment for me. A life without the Loves of my life..... You have one... Your grandson who is Autistic..... Well I know how special they are, because Mikey has Aspergers...I love Steven very much, but Mikey is the love of my life......
So there you have it.....My 2 reasons for living...They are gone too...
Sid
You asked me to list those things that mean the most to me..The ones that I would lay my own life down for, the ones that were my life. The ones that kept me going.....Their names are Steven and Michael. My 2 grandsons that I haven't been allowed to see in 4 yrs. My daughter and I had a huge, nasty fight, and this is her punishment for me. A life without the Loves of my life..... You have one... Your grandson who is Autistic..... Well I know how special they are, because Mikey has Aspergers...I love Steven very much, but Mikey is the love of my life......
So there you have it.....My 2 reasons for living...They are gone too...
Sid
orchardlady
02-27-2007, 12:19 AM
Sid, I hope I didn't offend you with my words.
Same for me. The only thing that keeps me grounded to the earth are my four grandchildren...17, 9, 6, 5 yrs. Without them I don't know that I would still be on this earth. When I get in the bottom of my pit and then think about the affect my leaving would have on them, I can't bare the thought, so I continue to endure and survive and live the best I can. Life is not something I always enjoy day after day, but I am here and try to do the best I can.
Carolyn
Same for me. The only thing that keeps me grounded to the earth are my four grandchildren...17, 9, 6, 5 yrs. Without them I don't know that I would still be on this earth. When I get in the bottom of my pit and then think about the affect my leaving would have on them, I can't bare the thought, so I continue to endure and survive and live the best I can. Life is not something I always enjoy day after day, but I am here and try to do the best I can.
Carolyn
stick2013
02-27-2007, 06:24 AM
Carolyn,
You did NOT offend me.....It's just been a really tough 4 yrs. My grandkids are getting older 16 and 13. I have missed so much of their lives. This isn't the first time she has done this, it's the 3rd or 4th time. But it's the longest. I should be used to it by now....I just don't know sometimes....
Hugs,
Sid
You did NOT offend me.....It's just been a really tough 4 yrs. My grandkids are getting older 16 and 13. I have missed so much of their lives. This isn't the first time she has done this, it's the 3rd or 4th time. But it's the longest. I should be used to it by now....I just don't know sometimes....
Hugs,
Sid
ICC
02-27-2007, 08:21 AM
Oh girls *** we make it so far just to fall back. Will we ever be totally happy, peaceful and contented. I think not. Somewhat? maybe! So all have admitted we need something or someone to help us to hang on. I have never been suicidal so I will not claim to understand though you know my only sister at her wits end finally succeeded. 1st attempt was a bottle of pills second and successful was jumping in front of a train. Though i have never been there I know where she was. the desperation and despair that she couldn't get out of "the whole" anymore nor did she want to or have the strength. I hang onto my husband , 2 daughters and two grandchildren BUT NOTHING AND NO ONE deadens the pain of losing my daughter. I love them all equally so my other 2 do not replace her or fill the void. This comes to be right now as her 31st birthday is thursday. She passed at 21. It's been almost 10 years and I still cannot believe I walk the earth without her here. Her death was the "straw that broke grasshoppers back" in my life filled with traumas and the ugly beast of PTSD. So no matter how far I go in recovery there will always be days, weeks, months that something is triggered that sets me back. I know this now, am not happy with the knowledge, but know I have to live with it. very disappointing and depressing. Sid you have helped so many. I believe you were the force behind Nikki's end to SI along with her own determination. Use your own words on yourself when it comes to self harm. Do you see why you were not successful EIGHT times? You have too much to give whether or not it is to those that you truly want to love, your grandsons. I know the hurt, as I have one i will never see until I go "home" and can truly undersand to be able to touch them and have someone stop you from it must be devastating. BUT God has not taken you many times, not for lack of your efforts:rolleyes: , and He has his reasons that we do not get to question right now. Read some of your own posts of compassion and comfort to others and truly think about who you are TODAY and let me know if you see you value in this world. :) As carolyn said, my dear friend, "leaving is not an option":p Let's talk somemore.
Love you lots,
Grasshopper xo
Love you lots,
Grasshopper xo
stick2013
02-27-2007, 08:44 AM
Dear ICC,
I am so sorry that my post has brought you more greif than you need right now. Sometimes my being HONEST is NOT a good thing. I am ok... I am on Cymbalta for depression, and pain control of Fibro, so the depression is minimal for now. It's when a trigger for my depression hits, then I go downward, and can't drag myself up from the bottomless pit.
I can't imagine losing a child, (although in a way I have)but yours is permanent. Mine???? I have a friend that lost her son when he was 8 yrs old. He was Dx'ed with a rare cancer, had surgery, and died within a total of 10 days. It took her years to come to terms with it. She still wonders today about him. We talked a few yrs ago, and she wanted to know what he would look like, I encouraged her to spend the $$$ and have age progression done on one of his pictures. I haven't taked to her in a few yrs so I don't know if she went through with it or not....
I think this board has help me in many ways... I do see a change in me, even a slight one. This time of year is very bad for me, I also have S.A.D.. so winter is tough. I love offering help to others, and yes it is hard to take ones own advice. It's just much easier to help others.... As i think we all know......
ICC, Know that I love you, and my thoughts and prayers are with you...I will always be here for you....
Love you hon,
Sid
I am so sorry that my post has brought you more greif than you need right now. Sometimes my being HONEST is NOT a good thing. I am ok... I am on Cymbalta for depression, and pain control of Fibro, so the depression is minimal for now. It's when a trigger for my depression hits, then I go downward, and can't drag myself up from the bottomless pit.
I can't imagine losing a child, (although in a way I have)but yours is permanent. Mine???? I have a friend that lost her son when he was 8 yrs old. He was Dx'ed with a rare cancer, had surgery, and died within a total of 10 days. It took her years to come to terms with it. She still wonders today about him. We talked a few yrs ago, and she wanted to know what he would look like, I encouraged her to spend the $$$ and have age progression done on one of his pictures. I haven't taked to her in a few yrs so I don't know if she went through with it or not....
I think this board has help me in many ways... I do see a change in me, even a slight one. This time of year is very bad for me, I also have S.A.D.. so winter is tough. I love offering help to others, and yes it is hard to take ones own advice. It's just much easier to help others.... As i think we all know......
ICC, Know that I love you, and my thoughts and prayers are with you...I will always be here for you....
Love you hon,
Sid
ICC
02-27-2007, 09:10 AM
My Dear Sid --- first you have to know that your sadness and hurt did not make me more down. I love you and that's what friends are for. sharing and helping each other over the rough spots. we have laughed and talked endlessly. When you go into the pit of depression you need to tell us. we will always be there to break a nail getting you out. I am still somehat of a tomboy so have no problem being in the mud.:) I see your situation with your daughter very similar to mine. Difference being we know mine is permanent. That's why I said to you to be able to touch them and have someone stop you would drive me out of my mind. so I do understand and have so much compassion in my heart for you. I have no words for you on this as it is not YOU who is causing this separation. If I could talk to your daughter I would give her a good tongue lashing and probably at some point need your bat. FORGIVENESS is what she has to learn. you have apologized, taken responsibility for your actions and SHE really is taking something so vital away from you, her and her children that I feel is just sad. We only go around once. Why not try to make the best of it. Look what WE do with all WE have inside. Sid you know as well as I do that we all have multiple triggers and never know when/where/how/why they hit us. It's so hard to see them and get control immediately before you slide down the tunnel. I have my up days and down days and figure i probably always will. Hopefully in time I can give some of the good that has been given to me back. I would like to volunteer in domestic violence. Not strong enough yet as that was 30 years of my life and need to be in control of it to help anyone else. Can't be in the throws of me being triggered and dissociating and needing these poor women to help me through it:dizzy: You being honest is always a good thing for me. I respect it as I am the same way. No hidden agenda here and certainly not between us. Keep it coming. I am always here for you whether or not I have any words of wisdom or just my shoulder to cry on when needed. I have my arm around you right now so please feel it and let me hold you until you feel better. You aren't sad alone.
Love you,
Grasshopper xo
Love you,
Grasshopper xo
orchardlady
02-27-2007, 12:08 PM
Grasshopper, I can't even begin to imagine what your 10 years have been like. I too am sorry if any of my words caused any sadness or unwanted memories.
You are one of the :angel:s in here, and I treasure your presence,
Carolyn
You are one of the :angel:s in here, and I treasure your presence,
Carolyn
orchardlady
02-27-2007, 12:18 PM
Sid, here is something to put into your thoughts about your grandchildren. I hope that just the thinking about it will bring you some hope.
I have a nephew who is 42 years old. When he was five, his mother allowed him to go to live with his father and step-mother's family, since she had brought three children into that marriage, and one of the kids was also five.
Due to details that aren't important here, and not that my sister didn't try over the years to see her son, she did not see him in person again until he was 31 yrs old, married and with an 18 month old son. His step-mother was the culprit all the years.
It seems that once he was grown and into adulthood, even given all that he had been told for 25 years, he had not wanted to believe all that he had heard. He still had the need to see his mother again. I think it was the baby that caused him to finally take serious action.
Today, the past has been put aside and a loving relationship is in place.
There is hope for you and your grandchildren to still have the relationship you desire. It just may not be available until they are adults, with a mind of their own.
Keep up the hope :)
Keep them as your focus in life, as I do mine.
I know that when my grandchildren need me in the future, I want to be here for them :D
Carolyn
I have a nephew who is 42 years old. When he was five, his mother allowed him to go to live with his father and step-mother's family, since she had brought three children into that marriage, and one of the kids was also five.
Due to details that aren't important here, and not that my sister didn't try over the years to see her son, she did not see him in person again until he was 31 yrs old, married and with an 18 month old son. His step-mother was the culprit all the years.
It seems that once he was grown and into adulthood, even given all that he had been told for 25 years, he had not wanted to believe all that he had heard. He still had the need to see his mother again. I think it was the baby that caused him to finally take serious action.
Today, the past has been put aside and a loving relationship is in place.
There is hope for you and your grandchildren to still have the relationship you desire. It just may not be available until they are adults, with a mind of their own.
Keep up the hope :)
Keep them as your focus in life, as I do mine.
I know that when my grandchildren need me in the future, I want to be here for them :D
Carolyn
ICC
02-27-2007, 02:35 PM
carolyn --- you also didn't upset me. the unwanted memories and heartache are apart of my daily life. I don't know what i would do without all of you and your understanding and compassion. Sid i told you the same thing once. I watched it with my husband. had two sons that his ex moved everytime he tried to see them. poisoned their minds against him all their lives. I used to tell him when they are grown men and maybe when they dall in love they will get in touch with you to hear your side, yell at you, ask you questions, whatever. I was right. his oldest who just turned 27 in Oct. got in touch with him about a month before. Father and son missed alot of each other due to the witch who kept them apart. I think I was trying to tell you that earlier. You still have a chance. I know you miss the boys unbearably now but you never know what will happen when they can make thier own choices. Not that they can't now but might suffer the rath of thier mother if they contacted you. Hold on, i don't think it's over yet. I pray it's not over yet for you.
Love you girls,
Grasshopper;)
Love you girls,
Grasshopper;)
stick2013
02-27-2007, 04:51 PM
Dear ICC, and Carolyn,
I know what both of you are saying, I have been telling myself this for 4 yrs. When the boys get older. Yeah, ok.... But I have missed so much. I don't know who they are, what they look like, how they did in school, who they like. God it is so upsetting.....I have a thousand questions, and a million hugs to give them, and now where to go with this.....Although today I had a semi good day....
ICC.... remember the kid I told you about, the one that has C.F and is dying....He's 14 and I don't think he will see 15 in Sept. His parents have called Hospice to help with some things. He is still able to go to school, maybe 1 class every couple of days... God I love this kid. I have known him since he was 5. He is the sweetiest kid. He dosen't fear his death, he has actually planned it with the help of his parents, and the church. He wants to be cremated, and at the church service, he wants smoke to rise on the altar....They have arranged everything.
Anyway his only cousin(Who has C.F also) she is only 2 yrs old, well they were going to come to visit this week, but because they are afraid the the bacteria in ****'* lungs would become airborn and infected their daughter they aren't coming. By the way it's impossible to catch this bacteria.....He is so upset, that his parents asked me NOT to mention the visit.... Anyway, I usually leave him a note and $20 on his pillow. (I sign it from the Easter Bunny, or the Tooth Fairy, just something goofy) when he goes into the hospital, and when he gets home it just gives him a smile to see it....:) So anyway, I felt bad that his cousin wasn't coming, and felt even worse that he is dying and there is nothing anyone can do.....So I left a note on his pillow... it said... BECAUSE YOU ARE SPECIAL....Love SPONGE BOB!!!!!! And I left $50 for him.... I hope he grins from ear to ear... :D He is so special, I just love this kid to pieces....
Anyway it made my day to think of him smiling when he goes to bed tonight. I hope he has sweet dreams.....
Hugs,
Sid
I know what both of you are saying, I have been telling myself this for 4 yrs. When the boys get older. Yeah, ok.... But I have missed so much. I don't know who they are, what they look like, how they did in school, who they like. God it is so upsetting.....I have a thousand questions, and a million hugs to give them, and now where to go with this.....Although today I had a semi good day....
ICC.... remember the kid I told you about, the one that has C.F and is dying....He's 14 and I don't think he will see 15 in Sept. His parents have called Hospice to help with some things. He is still able to go to school, maybe 1 class every couple of days... God I love this kid. I have known him since he was 5. He is the sweetiest kid. He dosen't fear his death, he has actually planned it with the help of his parents, and the church. He wants to be cremated, and at the church service, he wants smoke to rise on the altar....They have arranged everything.
Anyway his only cousin(Who has C.F also) she is only 2 yrs old, well they were going to come to visit this week, but because they are afraid the the bacteria in ****'* lungs would become airborn and infected their daughter they aren't coming. By the way it's impossible to catch this bacteria.....He is so upset, that his parents asked me NOT to mention the visit.... Anyway, I usually leave him a note and $20 on his pillow. (I sign it from the Easter Bunny, or the Tooth Fairy, just something goofy) when he goes into the hospital, and when he gets home it just gives him a smile to see it....:) So anyway, I felt bad that his cousin wasn't coming, and felt even worse that he is dying and there is nothing anyone can do.....So I left a note on his pillow... it said... BECAUSE YOU ARE SPECIAL....Love SPONGE BOB!!!!!! And I left $50 for him.... I hope he grins from ear to ear... :D He is so special, I just love this kid to pieces....
Anyway it made my day to think of him smiling when he goes to bed tonight. I hope he has sweet dreams.....
Hugs,
Sid
ICC
02-27-2007, 07:31 PM
Sid I know this is another difficult situation for you but I can hear the love and smiles in your writing about this little boy. I am glad God has brought him into your life while you are waiting for your grandsons. Imagine the fun you will have someday while they fill you in on their growing up years. i know it's not the same as being there but will still be wonderful them telling you all their funny growing up stories. Remeber Sid people come into your life for a reason., a season and sometimes a lifetime. I reall wish we could choose who and why. I am sure your little friend will smile tonight before he goes to sleep and hope my friend will too just knowing the good she gives.
Love you for the wonderful person you are, I am so sad, though I know this will pass in a couple of days and don't know what I would do without you.
Hugs,
Grasshopper:)
Love you for the wonderful person you are, I am so sad, though I know this will pass in a couple of days and don't know what I would do without you.
Hugs,
Grasshopper:)
stick2013
02-27-2007, 07:51 PM
Dear Icc,
Oh hon.....What can I do or say that could make your sadness go away???? I know that there is nothing......I just wish there was... I feel like an idiot sitting here with nothing to say. I keep typing things, and then deleting them. I want to say I know how you feel, but I don't!!!!!! My daughter is still alive. She is a BRAT and I haven't seen her in 4 yrs, but she is alive. Yours only lives in your heart, soul, mind and memories.....I feel selfish for dumping on you about my CRAP, when yours is so much more than mine....I'm sorry...........................No parent should ever have to bury their child, no parent should have to greive over the loss of the child they brought into this world. I wish I had the words to express how I feel, and to take your pain away.... I just don't.......I'm sorry.
Know that you are in my thoughts and prayers......I will say a very special Happy Birthday to your daughter on Thursday.......
I love you, and you are my special friend.....
Hugs,
Sid
Oh hon.....What can I do or say that could make your sadness go away???? I know that there is nothing......I just wish there was... I feel like an idiot sitting here with nothing to say. I keep typing things, and then deleting them. I want to say I know how you feel, but I don't!!!!!! My daughter is still alive. She is a BRAT and I haven't seen her in 4 yrs, but she is alive. Yours only lives in your heart, soul, mind and memories.....I feel selfish for dumping on you about my CRAP, when yours is so much more than mine....I'm sorry...........................No parent should ever have to bury their child, no parent should have to greive over the loss of the child they brought into this world. I wish I had the words to express how I feel, and to take your pain away.... I just don't.......I'm sorry.
Know that you are in my thoughts and prayers......I will say a very special Happy Birthday to your daughter on Thursday.......
I love you, and you are my special friend.....
Hugs,
Sid
ICC
02-27-2007, 08:44 PM
Sid you said it all just by being here for me. the next couple of days will be difficult, they always are. everyday I miss her but her birthday and Mother's day are two of my hardest. Her anniversary is getting less painful because i hae started to see the day as her rebirth and not death. that has helped. tomorrow and thursday will be my hardest. Once i sing "happy birthday to her" and bring her some pretty flowers I am usually OK after that. So please don't look for words there are none. just your comfort and friendship is all i need. thanks Sid.
Love you,
Grasshopper:yawn:
I'm pooped today for some reason and think i'll lay in bed and watch a movie and of course be aslpeep in 10 minutes if it's a good movie.:jester:
Love you,
Grasshopper:yawn:
I'm pooped today for some reason and think i'll lay in bed and watch a movie and of course be aslpeep in 10 minutes if it's a good movie.:jester:
stick2013
02-27-2007, 10:16 PM
ICC,
I am so sorry hon......I wish that I could be with you when you sing,"Happy Birthday" to your daughter. You are such a strong person. One that has gone through so much. Too much, and yet you give of yourself to everyone here, and I am sure to others that surround you too....
Your daughter must be so proud of you. For the person that you were, the person that you are, and the person that you are becoming. Keep fighting to become healthy, and give her that gift for her birthday.......
I love you, and will check in often tomorrow to see how you are doing.....I am done with the puppies on Thursday, and will be home that night. I will check in as soon as I get home......
You are loved.....
Hugs, and sleep well,
Sid
I am so sorry hon......I wish that I could be with you when you sing,"Happy Birthday" to your daughter. You are such a strong person. One that has gone through so much. Too much, and yet you give of yourself to everyone here, and I am sure to others that surround you too....
Your daughter must be so proud of you. For the person that you were, the person that you are, and the person that you are becoming. Keep fighting to become healthy, and give her that gift for her birthday.......
I love you, and will check in often tomorrow to see how you are doing.....I am done with the puppies on Thursday, and will be home that night. I will check in as soon as I get home......
You are loved.....
Hugs, and sleep well,
Sid
orchardlady
02-27-2007, 10:47 PM
You two are amazing!
What more can I say,
Carolyn
What more can I say,
Carolyn
ICC
02-28-2007, 08:16 AM
Dearest Sid --- you will be with me as I sing. I look like an a------- in the cemetary with my flowers singing out loud but have done so every year since her passing. I will have a talk with her tomorrow about where I have been and hope to go and that part of it is me letting her rest in peace. Because doing this will allow me to live in peace.My fear of forgetting her or her thinking I did brings out the worst pain in me. I opted not to see my therapist today as she is single with no children and about our age so she believes when someone dies you bury them and go on. There should be no sadnes or sense of loss after that. I'm not up to her opinions right now so have opted to protect myself from her opinions at this time. Plus and i guess most importantly I have to feel it and get on with it and I feel better able to do that in the company of my friends here where there is no judgement but alot of compassion. I know I can count on all of you to be there for me. Once I do the singing and flowers tomorrow the feeling will pass until the next event which will be Mother's day and then I have a hard time in the summer as I spent the last summer of her life with her several days a week . she passed in August so I know how summer's end.That is a fact I have not been able to get through in years. SHe will be gone 10 years this year and I still hate the summer even though rationally I know not all summer's end in tragedy i still can't seem to relax and enjoy a summer. Her death is a major factor in my life and my worse trigger so I intend to work long and hard with your help to be able to accept, deal and get on as quickly as possible. It seems to bother me more a week or two before the event and once I have visited her (though i know she's not in the cemetary) it seems to subside. The leading up is very difficult.
carolyn ---- Just be there. that's all I need.
Love you for caring,
Grasshopper
carolyn ---- Just be there. that's all I need.
Love you for caring,
Grasshopper
stick2013
02-28-2007, 02:52 PM
Dear ICC,
I will be there with you, you know that......I will say my prayers for both you and your daughter. I will lay my flowers, and sing with you. Although you may want to bring along a sandwich.....After you hear my voice, you may just want to give me the sandwich to eat, so I don't sing..... Or ask me to sing solo......Solo you can't hear me. Sorry for the humor, but you haven't head me sing.....
We will mak it hon, and I know that you are stong, and you will be ok. Talk to her, and tell her of the progress that you have made, the plans that you have, and the things in your life that you still need to work on. Ask her for guidance, and help to achieve the things that you need to finish. Ask her to walk beside you, and know that she is needed there to help you. She knows that you would never forget her, she knows of the love that you carry everyday within your heart. She also knows how lucky she was to have you for a mother for her short 21 yrs on this earth...She will always be with you ICC.....................Love is never ending, nothing can come between love, not even death.....
My wish for you.......May tomorrow be the most beautiful day. May you have peace, tranquility, love, and warmth. May you sing without tears in your eyes. When you turn to leave, may a soft wind touch you.....It will be the touch of an angle...Your daughter :angel:
I love you girlfriend, and my heart is sad too, knowing that I can not hold your hand, and walk with you. Know that I am with you in spirt......
Hugs,
Sid
I will be there with you, you know that......I will say my prayers for both you and your daughter. I will lay my flowers, and sing with you. Although you may want to bring along a sandwich.....After you hear my voice, you may just want to give me the sandwich to eat, so I don't sing..... Or ask me to sing solo......Solo you can't hear me. Sorry for the humor, but you haven't head me sing.....
We will mak it hon, and I know that you are stong, and you will be ok. Talk to her, and tell her of the progress that you have made, the plans that you have, and the things in your life that you still need to work on. Ask her for guidance, and help to achieve the things that you need to finish. Ask her to walk beside you, and know that she is needed there to help you. She knows that you would never forget her, she knows of the love that you carry everyday within your heart. She also knows how lucky she was to have you for a mother for her short 21 yrs on this earth...She will always be with you ICC.....................Love is never ending, nothing can come between love, not even death.....
My wish for you.......May tomorrow be the most beautiful day. May you have peace, tranquility, love, and warmth. May you sing without tears in your eyes. When you turn to leave, may a soft wind touch you.....It will be the touch of an angle...Your daughter :angel:
I love you girlfriend, and my heart is sad too, knowing that I can not hold your hand, and walk with you. Know that I am with you in spirt......
Hugs,
Sid
ICC
02-28-2007, 05:03 PM
My Dear Sid --- I have read your post over and over for the past couple of hours and couldn't answer at first because i couldn't type through the tears. You will be right next to me tomorrow and I have to tell you I have been asked not to sing anywhere but in my car with the windows up and the music blasting so we should make a real pair. probably bring alot of hounds out :jester: You're right Sid, love is never ending. This is the first year since she passed that I feel I somehwat know what I am feeling. grief and sadness. All normal due to the situation. I am not fighting it anymore but will allow myself the couple of days I need to feel knowing that I will go on. This is also the first year that I have wanted to talke to her about me. where i've been and where i'm going. it has always been just tearful missing. I hope to be able to sing without tears as I'm sure I have spent them all reading your post over and over. thank you my friend for helping me to feel and being by my side holding my hand while I am.
I love you for who you are and what you have become to me,
Grasshopper xo
I love you for who you are and what you have become to me,
Grasshopper xo
stick2013
02-28-2007, 05:58 PM
Dear ICC,
You're welcome...... Get you tears out today. Tomorrow when you visit with your daughter, try to visit with your heart full of love, not sadness. Let her know that you CAN go on without the sadness, and pain. Don't let her feel that her death has brought pain to your world. Let yourself and your daughter finally have peace in knowing that you are both ok......She needs to know that her death will not hold you in deep depression, and sadness.
Yes we miss them, and we greive for them, but life does go on, and it doesn't have to go on in pain, and torment. They are home, safe, and free, they have the right to be there with full knowledge that the ones left behind are ok. You will be with her again, this you know. She does too. Let her smile, let her rest in peace..........Knowing that she is, should give you peace also....
Sleep well tonight.....You will have beautiful, warm and tender dreams.
Love you...........
Sid
You're welcome...... Get you tears out today. Tomorrow when you visit with your daughter, try to visit with your heart full of love, not sadness. Let her know that you CAN go on without the sadness, and pain. Don't let her feel that her death has brought pain to your world. Let yourself and your daughter finally have peace in knowing that you are both ok......She needs to know that her death will not hold you in deep depression, and sadness.
Yes we miss them, and we greive for them, but life does go on, and it doesn't have to go on in pain, and torment. They are home, safe, and free, they have the right to be there with full knowledge that the ones left behind are ok. You will be with her again, this you know. She does too. Let her smile, let her rest in peace..........Knowing that she is, should give you peace also....
Sleep well tonight.....You will have beautiful, warm and tender dreams.
Love you...........
Sid