To begin a new thread is always a bit overwhelming, but I am feeling the need for some support and find it here.
I have been on Zoloft and Klonopin for 10 years, and for the most part it does make life bearable and at best, truly just fine. I had a terrifically stressfull year last year, some of you may recognize my story from other posts--but my husband of 30 years was dxed at Christmas of '05 with Primary liver cancer and given 8-12 months to live. The ensuing year of '06 was hell, but we were able to get him placed on the transplant list and he did receive a life saving transplant in September. He has recovered quite well, but for one serious setback in the form of a hospital borne infection, but that really just slowed him down a few weeks. Our 2nd youngest daughter married in June and our youngest left home because she could not stand the stress. So I was his sole caregiver for four solid months. I don't think he took a single pill or anything without me handing it to him. I had to deal with drains, tubes, flushing infection sites--everything but his insulin injections which he handled himself. Oh, and he's HCV+ so everything had to be done fully gloved & with a Hazmat garbage kept separate--so it was quite a chore.

He's back to work his typical 60 hour weeks and doing everything he ever did---and I'm a mess. I guess I thought that going through this life changing situation would bring us closer together, but truth is, he acts like he has singlehandedly accomplished the greatest feat known to man. (In fairness to him, he was so heavily drugged much of the time he does not remember a LOT of what went on--whole chunks of days are missing). He has never acknolwedged to me or to anyone else my contribution to his care. This is a deep and powerful hurt. I finally did kind of jokingly confront him about it and he said "What did you do? I had the transplant, not you, this wasn't ABOUT you". After that comment I seriously thought about leaving him--and told him so. We are currently in marriage counseling, and I am not terribly hopeful. He says he wants us to work things out, but I just don't know--partly too, I have gotten so much more depressed than ever before---so before I make any life altering decisions, I am going to see my pdoc and see if maybe a tweak in meds would help me to just feel not so miserable and help me to digest all the stuff that's going on. Usually when really depressed I am also extremely anxious, but now I am just so down all the time, I could sleep 20 hours a day.
We have 31 years together, 5 kids, 3 grandkids---I am not taking separation nor divorce from this man lightly, but I cannot continue to feel like his life is so totally separate from mine....if this transplant and ensuing recovery was not about US then I wonder what in the heck IS about US???
It may be interesting to note that his aprents divorced after 42 years of marriage and his brother & wife were divorced after 15 years....so I know it's not just me being "oversensitive"--as he tells me. (oh-he's also an engineer--do they take out the "sensitive to women" chip when you graduate from engineering school??)

Well, anybody who wants to throw their hat in the ring, I appreciate any kind words.
Thanks
Liz

dear liz,

you're always a comfort to others on here, and now you need to be comforted yourself. for someone who already has a depressive illness, to be a caretaker for another individual with massive phsysical issues going on, well--that's a feat in and of itself and you should be applauded for that!!!!!

you're hurt, and it's understandable. everyone would want a bit of recognition for their efforts, no matter who they are!! but you did mention in your post, "In fairness to him, he was so heavily drugged much of the time he does not remember a LOT of what went on--whole chunks of days are missing ".

however, i don't think the entire problem lies there. the problem you feel more strongly may be during therapy and/or afterwards!?! "We are currently in marriage counseling, and I am not terribly hopeful. He says he wants us to work things out, but I just don't know--partly too, I have gotten so much more depressed than ever before---so before I make any life altering decisions, I am going to see my pdoc and see if maybe a tweak in meds would help me to just feel not so miserable and help me to digest all the stuff that's going on. Usually when really depressed I am also extremely anxious, but now I am just so down all the time, I could sleep 20 hours a day. "

i think you are very wise to not make any major decisions for now, liz!!! after all, you've got 30+ years, and five kids together.... you realized that taking care of your husband has taken its toll on you in one way or another. and his statements towards you (and us, depressives, are definitely more sensitive than other people i've met, except those poor souls who suffer from social phobia), have only intensified that deep sadness--so much so, that anxiety almost flew out the window. you had to deal with this major stressor in your life, and you did it, liz. you did what you had to do. but now, it's time to take care of yourself again.

it truly is best to talk with the pdoc about this, and maybe even go to counseling by yourself, liz!! that way, YOU and your feelings will get validated. i think it's a bit different in couples counseling, no?

by the way, was he that way most of the time? even before the transplant? i mean to say, a bit distant, you know, not giving praise when praise is due, etc? (btw, i think he still loves you very much).

peace and blessings to you!!!:angel:

p.s. maybe your husband is being this way because he sees himself as beating death, to put it very bluntly. so, now he feels happy, blessed, etc. i agree-- he should definitely feel that way. God bless him. however, that does not give him the right (if he is at least even a bit aware of how you are feeling/doing these days), to make such statements towards you. ."What did you do? I had the transplant, not you, this wasn't ABOUT you". see, that's why i feel/think YOU should do some therapy by yourself, just about now.

Dakota--
I see your posts a lot too and I know you have helped a lot of people..so really appreciate your feedback.

Our "couples" counseling consists of 1/2 and 1/2 counseling--our counselor sees me for 25 mintes or so, then sees my husband. This is always the case. He gets my emotional temperature, so to speak and then, I guess, adresses issues with my husband. To be honest,I do see some change in my hubby since the advent of counseling, and the counselor's primary goal is to help ME, thus helping US. My husband being so reluctant to accept any culpability in the happiness of our relationship...asserting that all the problems we have are 100% my problem, not his, he's perfectly happy.
And yes, it has always been this way. He has traveled extensively and for lengthy periods of time for our entire marriage, and so the dynamic of "I work and make the money and you do the rest" has kind of fallen, without discussion, into place. Now we are just the two of us this inequality of the workload is really, oddly, much more bothersome than when I had kids at home. Probably because they had chores and a lot of responsibilities, plus I just had other people at home to talk to and be with. I do feel totally alone now.
I know I am supposed to be taking care of my self--but I really & truly do not know how to do that. I took care of my 3 younger sibs for 5 yeasr before I got married (mom was a chronic depressive & never treated, just locked herself in her room) then went right from that to being married myself and having 5 kids in 9 years--so it's been 36 years of non stop mothering.....tho I love the role of "mom"...it just cannot be my whole identity.
No, I will not make any hasty decisions. My husband knows I am teetering and he's a bit anxious, as well he should be, I guess. It's not like I plan to clean him out finanacially or make a mess, but I am too fully aware of the ramifications of the fallout this would have on our family and friends....so hence, the counseling. I just wake up every day in a fog of sadness that lifts only slightly now & then. We've had a bad winter--hoping with Spring will come a renewed sense of hope, too.

Funny side note, I guess. Up all night, off and on with him as he had a bad night (wore dress shoes all day to a funeral & they are very uncomfortable) so he had back spasms and foot cramps) Guess who was up from midnight until 4 rubbing his feet, back & hips, feeding him pain pills & alternating heat & cold until he could sleep? Guess who's still asleep & who had to get up early to fix big Sunday dinner for the kids for after church?? In his favor, he did say "Thank you". A big step for this guy, major, in fact.
Thanks--
Liz

hey liz,

yup, he's gotten used to the routine you've had for all these years, and like they say, "it's hard to teach an ol' dog new tricks." at least, as you've said, he did start to show a bit of improvement, thank God!!! hopefully, with more therapy, he'll "see" more of how his behavior if affecting you.

you are truly incredible though! i must say that. you are an amzing wife!!

i suggest you read your first post (the same as this one actually), i mean the responses to it. solitas had some good ideas about finding something to do only for YOURSELF! why not give it a try? i know i probably sound like one of those non-depressed pple who offer ideas that make you want to sock them in the face.... but in your case, catering to him /husband the whole time, and being alone in the house most of the time, makes you lonely, liz. be a little selfish!!!!! you've taken care of kids and husband and things for so many years!!!!. be selfish. think really really really hard of what you'd like to do, and do it, even for a little. look on dazedandconfused's thread, for some ideas....

i'm not in the best frame of mind now myself liz, and maybe i don't even know what the heck i'm talking about. but i'll always take the time to talk with you.
God bless you!!!!!

Liz, no wonder you are hurt! Wow, you went through a lot taking care of him and he gave you no appreciation for what you did! That would hurt! I suspect he has treated you this way your whole life and this illness was just the straw (a big straw too) that broke the camels back.

Now, about you being a caretaker your whole life. THIS needs to be dealt with in counseling in my opinion. The little word that sums up this kind of situation so well is "codependent". I know a lot of people hate that word but it really says a lot. To give you some support with this I will tell you that I recovered from this malady. As a child you were placed into a position where you had to deny your own needs and take care of others. It became a part of your personality, to deny your needs, so you had some children and continued on. Now, you need to find your needs and start attending to them. Sounds like your husband has just become very accustomed to this arrangement (a foot massage all night! Come on Liz! This is really denying your needs for his!).

Ok, OK Dakota & Sannah--you are both right and as it's actually making me laugh because you are so spot on with your comments.
I had never looked at our relationship as being "codependent" since I do everything for him (but make the $$, but I do handle the bills & manage our investments.....) so I always kind of looked at it as, well, just life. As I previously stated, he traveled a ton--I mean 3 weeks out, a weekend home, the 3 more weeks out..this was not uncommon. There would be periods of time when he's be home for as long as a month at a stretch, but he's a bit of a workaholic (12 hour days) so even having him home wasn't like he was "home". The "caretaker" role is one that our counselor has most definitely approached and I know he has spoke to my hubby about that, because he now can open a car door for me (when he remembers)...and has even taken the garbage out a couple of times. Baby steps, right? My sister and I have been talking about taking a week off to go together w/o the guys. My hubby's not happy about it as I have never left him, except when I went back to CT to tend my newborn granddaughter (again the caretaking!!) for a month.......the kids said he was miserable....but within 15 minues of picking me up at the airport after this long, tiring trip he was on my case about something I hadn't done right BEFORE I HAD LEFT. ((Sigh))

Well, this is a place to vent, and I do so with the knowledge that you all probably have situations similar, better, worse, whatever, than mine....I'll get through this, always do, but it does not make for fun days, does it??

Will see my pdoc later this week & get his opinion on what's needed (swift kick in the shins, maybe, or a vacation away.

Thanks ladies!!
Liz

Liz, I am glad that your counselor is working on this with you. In my opinion, what is needed if for you to understand your own needs and then to quit denying them. Since your husband is so very used to this King treatment he is going to have to adjust and it sounds like he can listen and change. You and your sister going on a trip together sounds like a wonderful way to meet your own needs.

Thanks guys for the support.....it will be a long process, I know. I am so tired, tho, and tired of the same old, same old. he is going to start traveling again & our counselor suggested we treat this time as a kind of "separation" period....which I think is good. He wants us to think about the being apart & separate and how that feels and then how we want to be if we want to be together, ultimately. It's just two short one week trips with one week home in between, but that might be the week I go with my sis, if that works out, so it could total 3 weeks.
I'm supposed to be working on finding "me" which is such a weird assignment..and since I have kids still around, a challenging proposition. My youngest does not live at home but is still quite an emotional drain on me. I'm actually going to spend all of next week having workmen come to the house and do a lot of repair work which my husband either won't or can't do, then , time permitting, I am painting (which I actually love doing). He can't stand the mess of remodeling, even just repainting makes him crazy so I always did it when he's away---but he hasn't been anywhere for over a year! Fresh paint makes me feel renewed, and goodness knows the house needs it.

Thansk again for listening...it's good to klnow that others listen and understand when I am feeling sooooo alone!
Liz

To begin a new thread is always a bit overwhelming, but I am feeling the need for some support and find it here.
I have been on Zoloft and Klonopin for 10 years, and for the most part it does make life bearable and at best, truly just fine. I had a terrifically stressfull year last year, some of you may recognize my story from other posts--but my husband of 30 years was dxed at Christmas of '05 with Primary liver cancer and given 8-12 months to live. The ensuing year of '06 was hell, but we were able to get him placed on the transplant list and he did receive a life saving transplant in September. He has recovered quite well, but for one serious setback in the form of a hospital borne infection, but that really just slowed him down a few weeks. Our 2nd youngest daughter married in June and our youngest left home because she could not stand the stress. So I was his sole caregiver for four solid months. I don't think he took a single pill or anything without me handing it to him. I had to deal with drains, tubes, flushing infection sites--everything but his insulin injections which he handled himself. Oh, and he's HCV+ so everything had to be done fully gloved & with a Hazmat garbage kept separate--so it was quite a chore.

He's back to work his typical 60 hour weeks and doing everything he ever did---and I'm a mess. I guess I thought that going through this life changing situation would bring us closer together, but truth is, he acts like he has singlehandedly accomplished the greatest feat known to man. (In fairness to him, he was so heavily drugged much of the time he does not remember a LOT of what went on--whole chunks of days are missing). He has never acknolwedged to me or to anyone else my contribution to his care. This is a deep and powerful hurt. I finally did kind of jokingly confront him about it and he said "What did you do? I had the transplant, not you, this wasn't ABOUT you". After that comment I seriously thought about leaving him--and told him so. We are currently in marriage counseling, and I am not terribly hopeful. He says he wants us to work things out, but I just don't know--partly too, I have gotten so much more depressed than ever before---so before I make any life altering decisions, I am going to see my pdoc and see if maybe a tweak in meds would help me to just feel not so miserable and help me to digest all the stuff that's going on. Usually when really depressed I am also extremely anxious, but now I am just so down all the time, I could sleep 20 hours a day.
We have 31 years together, 5 kids, 3 grandkids---I am not taking separation nor divorce from this man lightly, but I cannot continue to feel like his life is so totally separate from mine....if this transplant and ensuing recovery was not about US then I wonder what in the heck IS about US???
It may be interesting to note that his aprents divorced after 42 years of marriage and his brother & wife were divorced after 15 years....so I know it's not just me being "oversensitive"--as he tells me. (oh-he's also an engineer--do they take out the "sensitive to women" chip when you graduate from engineering school??)

Well, anybody who wants to throw their hat in the ring, I appreciate any kind words.
Thanks
Liz
you could be bipolar

Doctor Georginia, I have seen that you have been making your rounds frequently diagnosing everyone with Bipolar disorder.

Hey Liz, you find yourself girl!

you could be bipolar



W...T...F? How did you get bipolar out of that?

Nevermind, I just went and looked at your posting history. What is your problem, do you think you are funny running around telling everybody they might be bipolar? Hey, why dont you go ahead and run over to the High blood pressure forum and tell them they might be bipolar. Give the bipolar diagnosis a rest.

LOL.....no, I am not bipolar, I think that to be BP you actually have to have some up days!!! But thanks for the dimestore dx georginia--I am NOT making light of BP, my youngest daughter IS, and it is no darn fun for her or anyone around her, so don't throw that dx at people w/o a whole lot more than a few posts under the belt to look at. I have GAD, which is a lot different than being bipolar--I can go many days without any anxiety problems, the Zoloft really did help a lot with that. Some days it is bad, and after the past year + that we've been through, yeah, I'm feeling a tad more anxious about the future, but I'm not manic (you have to trust me on knowing what a truly manic phase looks like)....if I were manic, my house would be a lot cleaner, that's for sure. I am truly just trying to take care of my self and put myself first, for once and it's not being met with great support----my own fault, actually, I created this "monster" and I have to retrain it not to be so needy.
And, actually, georginia, it is wrong for you to be saying that to people who are on the edge, so to speak, BP is a frightening disorder, if not well understood and you should not be randomly posting that thought to people who are struggling--esp people on these boards, most of whom are under the care of pdocs who would know if they were BP or not.

LOL.....if I were manic, my house would be a lot cleaner, that's for sure. .

LOL i love that statement!!! same way i feel!! :)

so liz, did you think of where you're going to go? :)

and how are you doing today?:angel:

Dakota--I'm ok today--hubby's preparing for a 10 day trip, so I'll be alone for awhile, so semi-looking forward to some personal time...I want to go where there is no SNOW. San Diego??
I should complain--I see you're from NY and you've probably had a ton--my son lives in CT and they've a rough winter there too.

Thanks for listening!
Liz

I haven't posted in a while..hubby's been out of town and I have been trying to get some odd jobs done here at home while he's been gone-along with our taxes, our kids' & their Fafsa's (federal aid for college next year...a big huge job!) but I am done with all that, I think. Being all alone has been kind of nice--it has given me time to think and reflect and when my hubby calls at night, if he does call, we seem to be ok...usually the calls are short as he is very tired and needs to get up very early to get back to work.

today I was so wasted, having spent about 6 hours straight filling out forms and listening to workmen banging around fixing sheetrock & making one heck of a mess--when I realized I had to call my MIL with a new address for my daughter. I do not have a good relationship with my MIL, despite 30 years of trying, biting my tongue and swallowing back angry words I'd really like to say--for the sake of peace in the family.....I was keeping the conversation short and trying so hard to get off the phone when she brought up something I had done 20 years ago, and just simply told me off about it. Seriously, it was as if I had done this thing yesterday. I was astounded and appalled that something I had said or done 20 years ago was so firmly entrenched in her mind that she could remember word for word what she said and how angry she was with me (and still is). I had evidently made some comment about how wild my husband had been as a teenager..which is true and not a secret from anyone, least of all our kids or his sibs, but she was so angry with me for bringing it up, as she put it "over and over and over"...and how she & her husband hated me for it. What?? She just kept harping on this and then starts saying "I hope you aren't hurt by my honesty but I think you really need to change your behavior around your kids" ....I was sobbing so hard I could not even speak....least of all to point out to her that 20 years ago she & her hubby had been divorced for 4 years and he wasn't even there. she kept saying "I think it's important for you to understand why you keep on doing so much for other people. It's to make you feel important, but you really aren't." Everyone on the family feels this way, esp **** (my hubby)." By then I was almost hysterical. I just said Why do you do this to me? Do you enjoy it?" and I hung up on her. I know my husband doens't talk about me to his mom, so I know it's all her, but what do you do with a person like this?? She makes me so nuts..my husband insists I have a relationship w/her...but she will ineviatbly do this "pounce" thing--always when he is not around--he refuses to stand up for me and will NOT intervene on my behalf.

I have cried so hard today I didn't think it possible to do so...I can;t even say I hate her, I just am so sick of her soing this...you would think after 30 years I would see the pounce before it comes, but I almost never do. Stupid, stupid me....

Liz Darling, I am so sorry that she upset you so! This thing that she is upset about - it really is her issue, okay (my opinion is that she has a lot of issues to be upset about this!). Now, why did she upset you so much? Was she "telling" you that you are bad or something? Any woman who would get so upset about something like that does not have a worthwhile opinion. If you realize this, you could make the decision that her opinion is not worth much and that you will not let it upset you. I could go out right now and get a lot of opinions about a lot of subjects but I need to choose who has a good opinion and if this information is even valid.

Thanks, Sannah--
After thinking calmly, after a bit, I realize that she does in fact have a TON of issues--many of them with me, b-cuz of course, to start with I married her son and ruined his life--LOL..., I realize that she does this "pounce" thing only to me...I am always the target, and in a big way, b'cuz she KNOWS my husband will never, ever stand up for me (he is a absolutley opposed to confrontation in any form and feels I always need to be the bigger person) this has gone on for the 30+ years of our marriage. She is very sneaky--always waiting until he is not around, in fact, waiting until no one else is there to witness or hear, only on occasion has she slipped and said something truly awful in front of one of my kids who will ALWAYS call her on it. Our marriage counselor has told my hubby, flat out "you HAVE to tell your mother she CANNOT continue to treat your wife in this manner--by your silence you are complicit in her behavior" but he will not cross her. I think the most hurtful thing she said to me was that my FIL hated me terribly--well, I know for a fact he loved me--I was one of his primary caregivers during the last few years of his life as he died a slow and painful death from leukemia, and I nursed him as lovingly as if he had been my own dad.Many, many times he told me how grateful he was to me for the care I gave him and for the wonderful wife, mother & daughter I was. For her to besmirch that memory was just plain mean. Whe he passed, they had been divorced 15 years and she did not even acknowledge his passing (her own childrens' father!) with so much as a card to any of them. She actually said she had never felt happier!

This is just a cross to bear, I guess-- why am I surprised when she does this? I shouldn't be! As she grows older, her innate nastiness towards me grows a little stronger with each pasing year. I will have to grow a thicker skin or avoid her completely, as I am forbidden to speak my mind to her.

Oh, and BTW--my "kids" are all adults and find grandma's behavior exceedingly quirky and amusing and are not one whit disturbed by the things she says...unless she downright lies about me..then they'll stick up for me..otherwise, they just laugh her off. I should follow their fine examples.
Liz

hi liz,

your MIL seems to be a bitter, angry, sad, old woman who's taking all her frustrations out on you. what she said about your FIL has absolutely no merit. you know better, liz. you know deep down in your heart that he loved you, because he TOLD you so. since your husband has taken such a nonchalant attitude in this regard, the best thing to do, in my opinion, is avoid this woman as much as you can. why put up with poison and other people's venom? don't you have enough to deal with already?!! forget it. yes, it's not "being the bigger person," but so what?!!! do you get any kind of satisfaction from having even a bit of a relationship with this woman? i think not. you don't have to grow a "thicker skin,"--be who you are!! don't become bitter and unfeeling, and angry, like her, because in the end that's what may happen if you continue "taking it" from her. resentment will built up, and God knows what may happen then.... is it possible (at least a little) that your husband's attitude towards his mom, and therefore, towards you, makes you a bit angry with him too? i'd say leave her alone to dwell in a misery of her own making. and remember, she can't control you. i've distanced myself from my own mother. it still hurts me very much, but i had to, liz. i'd rather it be this way, than try and try to make amends, and try to get her to understand me, and then end up crying like an idiot and suffering even more everytime i speak with her....

our hearts and souls should be light and joyful, not dark and full of sadness all the time. we don't need anybody to add to what hell we're already in.

keep strong, liz. God bless you! :angel:

Ah, Dakota--thanks, always the right words!
YES! My frustration with my MIL ABSOLUTELY DO have a lot to do with my feelings about my husband. If he would, just ONCE and I mean just ONCE stand up to her on my behalf and say "Mom, you absolutely CANNOT speak to my wife that way" it would stop. End of story. I know that for a fact because when his brother was married he had the exact same prob with this woman and his wife. He DID stand up to her, just once and she never said another word to her of a negative nature....my husband, the non-confrontational peace-at-all-costs guy that he is insists that I "take it". He has never, not once in 30 years spoken in my defense. Never. My kids have, bless 'em.
Our marriage counselor TOLD him he had to do it..and I mean told him he had to take a position and he couldn't play this game any longer--he either believed me when I said what she was doing to me or I had the right to enagage her in "battle" so to speak. Of course, my hubby pormtly went out of town and hasn't been home since, so he hasn't had a chance to do the deed , so to speak, but if he won't I am cutting all ties. You're right! WHY do I constantly try to make nice with someone whose sole goal is to make me miserable!!?? And if my hubby can't deal with that, it's his problem?? He can go live with her.

Thanks a million I feel much, much better!! I am actaully laughing pretty hard at the thought of that!