bilbo42
03-08-2007, 12:53 AM
Hello,
I'm new to this board or to any board for that matter. So please bear with me.
I had my first of three knee surgeries ( left ) when I was 14 yrs old. I've had to have my right foot operated on twice for a weight bearing bone. I'also had both left and right shoulder worked on ( Rotator Cuff repaired and the other repaired for Chronic Impingement Syndrome. I Tore a tendon in my right elbow and had to have that repaired. Not over yet though ! Last May I started to get vey excruating pain in my left leg from my hip to my big toe. My regular Dr. gave me Vicodin for the pain relief this I have taken alot for my other mis - haps. When those ran out with no relief he refered me to an Orthopedic Surgeon. As I waited in his office I noticed on my in bright red letters NO NARCOTICS. I was kinda miffed but I was in so much pain I had trouble walking a straight line. The Dr. came in and examined me and thought I Periformis Syndrome. He gave me a shot of cortizone ( he hoped he could get it in deep enough as the muscle lies right next to te opening of the pelvis He also perscribed PT which I went to religiously. After a coulpe of sessions she stated " This is not Periformis Syndrome". So I went to the orthopedist and told him I was not getting any relief from the shot or the therapy. At that time all I could take was Ibuprofin 8 -10 a day. He said "thats not good for you. So he gave me vicuprofin and this seemed to take the edge off. Still went to my PT and she stated Tthe same as before ! I againn went bact to the orthopedist. He sent me over to the hospital for an MRI and he looked at the pics and siad their was nothing remarkable that he could decipher but he forward it to their Neurosurgeon and said don't call us we'll call you if he sees someting. Days and weeks went by my regular Dr. telling me that no more pain meds will be given but maybe I should see a pain specialist for some kind of long needle shot into my spine. Now I was getting pretty angy. I Called the Neurosurgeon and asked about my MRI they said what MRI ? It apparently did not get sent to him. The next day I got a call from his intern and told me to be in his office in 3 days I asked him for some pain meds and he said I Would have to call the ortopedic surgeon and ask. ( As the Neurosurgeon had not actually seen me yet. ) They Did give me vicidin and that helped take the edge off for the three hour ride to the Neurosurgeons office. Once there he had me take another more powerful MRI and he found a large Synovial Cyst L4 - L5 and a ruptured disk L4-L5 and I was in surgery the next morning. This was August 18. Not over yet ! After 6 weeks off wor and a lot of PT I was cleared to go back to work ( I work construction ) Soon afert I started notice burning pain in my right thigh and as the day got longer my calf muscle would begin to cramp up severly ! When I would call for a refill on my pain med they stated I'm doing to much. None the less I had another surgery on the right side ofthe L4-L5 area. He said he had to remove the start of another cyst and some old arthritic grisly tendons. He also said between both surgeries so much bone " you could drive a truck through" I Currently take for vicodin a day and now he says thats to much.
I am a very active person I can't stand to just sit around ! And its not only my back thats killing me. my knee feels like I Have hot BB's grinding in it and both shoulders hurt continually. I tell my DR and he shrugs his shoulders.
What is worse taking way to many over the counter meds or four vicodin (and sometimes four is not enough ) I'm a very handy person - I'm in the process of remodeling our house for the second time, work on our own vehicles Ect. Ect. I have three teenage sons who love to hunt and fish. We live in some of the best pheasant hunting in the country and I'm hesitant on going anymore as I cannot walk as far without bad leg pain but still the Dr's are afraid to prescribe any pain medication
So here is my dilema. any help or insigt would be greatly appreciated.
Bilbo42
I'm new to this board or to any board for that matter. So please bear with me.
I had my first of three knee surgeries ( left ) when I was 14 yrs old. I've had to have my right foot operated on twice for a weight bearing bone. I'also had both left and right shoulder worked on ( Rotator Cuff repaired and the other repaired for Chronic Impingement Syndrome. I Tore a tendon in my right elbow and had to have that repaired. Not over yet though ! Last May I started to get vey excruating pain in my left leg from my hip to my big toe. My regular Dr. gave me Vicodin for the pain relief this I have taken alot for my other mis - haps. When those ran out with no relief he refered me to an Orthopedic Surgeon. As I waited in his office I noticed on my in bright red letters NO NARCOTICS. I was kinda miffed but I was in so much pain I had trouble walking a straight line. The Dr. came in and examined me and thought I Periformis Syndrome. He gave me a shot of cortizone ( he hoped he could get it in deep enough as the muscle lies right next to te opening of the pelvis He also perscribed PT which I went to religiously. After a coulpe of sessions she stated " This is not Periformis Syndrome". So I went to the orthopedist and told him I was not getting any relief from the shot or the therapy. At that time all I could take was Ibuprofin 8 -10 a day. He said "thats not good for you. So he gave me vicuprofin and this seemed to take the edge off. Still went to my PT and she stated Tthe same as before ! I againn went bact to the orthopedist. He sent me over to the hospital for an MRI and he looked at the pics and siad their was nothing remarkable that he could decipher but he forward it to their Neurosurgeon and said don't call us we'll call you if he sees someting. Days and weeks went by my regular Dr. telling me that no more pain meds will be given but maybe I should see a pain specialist for some kind of long needle shot into my spine. Now I was getting pretty angy. I Called the Neurosurgeon and asked about my MRI they said what MRI ? It apparently did not get sent to him. The next day I got a call from his intern and told me to be in his office in 3 days I asked him for some pain meds and he said I Would have to call the ortopedic surgeon and ask. ( As the Neurosurgeon had not actually seen me yet. ) They Did give me vicidin and that helped take the edge off for the three hour ride to the Neurosurgeons office. Once there he had me take another more powerful MRI and he found a large Synovial Cyst L4 - L5 and a ruptured disk L4-L5 and I was in surgery the next morning. This was August 18. Not over yet ! After 6 weeks off wor and a lot of PT I was cleared to go back to work ( I work construction ) Soon afert I started notice burning pain in my right thigh and as the day got longer my calf muscle would begin to cramp up severly ! When I would call for a refill on my pain med they stated I'm doing to much. None the less I had another surgery on the right side ofthe L4-L5 area. He said he had to remove the start of another cyst and some old arthritic grisly tendons. He also said between both surgeries so much bone " you could drive a truck through" I Currently take for vicodin a day and now he says thats to much.
I am a very active person I can't stand to just sit around ! And its not only my back thats killing me. my knee feels like I Have hot BB's grinding in it and both shoulders hurt continually. I tell my DR and he shrugs his shoulders.
What is worse taking way to many over the counter meds or four vicodin (and sometimes four is not enough ) I'm a very handy person - I'm in the process of remodeling our house for the second time, work on our own vehicles Ect. Ect. I have three teenage sons who love to hunt and fish. We live in some of the best pheasant hunting in the country and I'm hesitant on going anymore as I cannot walk as far without bad leg pain but still the Dr's are afraid to prescribe any pain medication
So here is my dilema. any help or insigt would be greatly appreciated.
Bilbo42
Sponsor
LottyLiz
03-08-2007, 08:09 AM
I am so sorry that you are going through such pain and such a hard time with your doctors. It sounds to me like you need to find a good pain management doctor. Call your insurance company and get a list of PM doctors or get your primary care doc to refer you.
It is ridiculous the way these docs treat us. I know that addiction is a serious problem, but with your documentation it is just awful that you are having to suffer this way.
It took me 6 months to find a doc that would treat my pain and also treat me like a human being. So sometimes it does take a while. Don't give up! There is a doc out there that will help you find the relief you need.
I am new here as well, but you will find a wealth of information and support. Take care and good luck.
It is ridiculous the way these docs treat us. I know that addiction is a serious problem, but with your documentation it is just awful that you are having to suffer this way.
It took me 6 months to find a doc that would treat my pain and also treat me like a human being. So sometimes it does take a while. Don't give up! There is a doc out there that will help you find the relief you need.
I am new here as well, but you will find a wealth of information and support. Take care and good luck.
Shoreline
03-08-2007, 02:05 PM
Hi Bilbo, Sorry to hear how the surgeons dropped the ball on you. As far as managing post op pain or failed surgery or just old injuries, You really don't want to appear that your trying to come up with a list long enough to justify prescribing opiates. A NS that di you back surgery isn't going to treat your knee pain or shoulder pain from an injury when your 14.
Try to keep your complaints to the issues that cause you the most problems and have the greatest impact on you. You ask for some insight, so I will oblige. You may not like it but here it is. Nobody or I should say most people unnless born lazy aren't content spending the rest of their life sittingon a heating pad and avoiding anything that might cause pain. That doesn't make you different. The fact you have had numerous surgeries and injuries in the construction field over a the decades you have bneen in construction doesn't make you different from anyone else that's 45 and comes home from work hurting after a hard day of physical labor.
Docs expect us totake some reponsability for our own life, although pain eds are the easy answer, they aren't neccesarrily the best treatement if someone wants to continue to work andplay like their 25 when their 45. This is the point in your life where you except that pwerhaps you need to hire help to do the heavy lifting, squating and bending and twisting. Carrying sheet rock up a flight of stairs willmake anyones back hurt, but druging a 40 year old so that he can continue on like he's 20 isn't in the patients best interest. You have to show the doc that the problem your asking for help with is severe enough that your willing tomake some changes in your life. I broke my back when I was 28, It;s tough to pay a kid to mow your own lawn or replace a roof shingle when you know how and would do it yourself it didn't cause pain tat put you on the floor for the following 3 days. Noy being able to to take advanatage of a sportamsn paradise isn't a qauklity of life issue, not being able to suport your gfamily is.. Not being able to go camping and slweep on frozen ground during hunting season isn't a quality of life issue, but being able to enjoy a night out with the family without looking for a place to lay down half way through dinner is a quality of life issue.
You will read some absord stories of med use on this forum, some of the folks simply can't function without meds, and some elieve they are just as entitled to pain meds as the next because they had back surgery too. You don't want to come across as someone that feels entitled to anything that willmake life more comfy or prevent you from making changes in your work or play activity simply because there are drugs avaialable that will make those activities less painful.
For exapmple, lets say your a mason, I respect the heck out of the intensive labor and skill involved in laying brick and block all day long. I probably couldn't have payed block on my best day for 8 hhours when I was in my 20's. It's back braking work, but it's work for a young man that can handle that kind of work. Asking a doc to dope up a 40 year old so he can keep up with the 20 year old isn't a reasonable request or a quality of life issue. It sucks to have to asdmit we are aging and can no longer do what we used to without paying for it dearly or admitting we simply can't do it any longer.
Docs expect patients complaining of chronic pain that requires the use of opiates and the inevatable physical dependnece that develops from continued use to adjust their lifestyle to reduce the amount ofpain where in. At this point they may be able to give you enough vicodin to allow you tokeep up with the younger folks and do your own rentivations. Bt it's an absolute cetainty that tolerance will develop and you will need something sronger down the road. If you push yourself beyond your abilty and expect the doc tomake it possible with the use of pain meds, your not being realistic.
Opiates aren't used to stay off retirement or to prevent having to pay someone else to do something we used to be able to do ourself. But we do have a role in our own well being. If your not changing your work habbits and passing the torch, I don't think it's realistic to expecta doc to prevent the inevatable by making you dependnet on opiate pain medication. It will work for a while, but eventually no amount of pain meds is going to allow a 60 year old to slinghg block 8 hours a day 6 days a week. That's not a reasonable expectation or a reasonable request.
Construction work , even if you're the forman, or general contractor or supervisor on the job will put you in the position of having to make the decision to wait for help to do something you know how to do and would have done it yourself 10 years ago. But that was before multiple back surgeries and when you were 10 years younger. Opiates aren't the fontain of youth, they shouldn't be used to continue to engage in activity that you know will cause you pain severe enough to need narcotic pain meds. We allhave some degree of control over what we are wiling to subject ourself too. If you come across as completely unreasonable, unbending and unwilling to make modifications to your life and work load. I don't think it's reasonaable to expect a doc to dope you up so you can keep going when you know you simply masking the damage you could otherwise avoid.
Just some things to consider Take care, Dave
Try to keep your complaints to the issues that cause you the most problems and have the greatest impact on you. You ask for some insight, so I will oblige. You may not like it but here it is. Nobody or I should say most people unnless born lazy aren't content spending the rest of their life sittingon a heating pad and avoiding anything that might cause pain. That doesn't make you different. The fact you have had numerous surgeries and injuries in the construction field over a the decades you have bneen in construction doesn't make you different from anyone else that's 45 and comes home from work hurting after a hard day of physical labor.
Docs expect us totake some reponsability for our own life, although pain eds are the easy answer, they aren't neccesarrily the best treatement if someone wants to continue to work andplay like their 25 when their 45. This is the point in your life where you except that pwerhaps you need to hire help to do the heavy lifting, squating and bending and twisting. Carrying sheet rock up a flight of stairs willmake anyones back hurt, but druging a 40 year old so that he can continue on like he's 20 isn't in the patients best interest. You have to show the doc that the problem your asking for help with is severe enough that your willing tomake some changes in your life. I broke my back when I was 28, It;s tough to pay a kid to mow your own lawn or replace a roof shingle when you know how and would do it yourself it didn't cause pain tat put you on the floor for the following 3 days. Noy being able to to take advanatage of a sportamsn paradise isn't a qauklity of life issue, not being able to suport your gfamily is.. Not being able to go camping and slweep on frozen ground during hunting season isn't a quality of life issue, but being able to enjoy a night out with the family without looking for a place to lay down half way through dinner is a quality of life issue.
You will read some absord stories of med use on this forum, some of the folks simply can't function without meds, and some elieve they are just as entitled to pain meds as the next because they had back surgery too. You don't want to come across as someone that feels entitled to anything that willmake life more comfy or prevent you from making changes in your work or play activity simply because there are drugs avaialable that will make those activities less painful.
For exapmple, lets say your a mason, I respect the heck out of the intensive labor and skill involved in laying brick and block all day long. I probably couldn't have payed block on my best day for 8 hhours when I was in my 20's. It's back braking work, but it's work for a young man that can handle that kind of work. Asking a doc to dope up a 40 year old so he can keep up with the 20 year old isn't a reasonable request or a quality of life issue. It sucks to have to asdmit we are aging and can no longer do what we used to without paying for it dearly or admitting we simply can't do it any longer.
Docs expect patients complaining of chronic pain that requires the use of opiates and the inevatable physical dependnece that develops from continued use to adjust their lifestyle to reduce the amount ofpain where in. At this point they may be able to give you enough vicodin to allow you tokeep up with the younger folks and do your own rentivations. Bt it's an absolute cetainty that tolerance will develop and you will need something sronger down the road. If you push yourself beyond your abilty and expect the doc tomake it possible with the use of pain meds, your not being realistic.
Opiates aren't used to stay off retirement or to prevent having to pay someone else to do something we used to be able to do ourself. But we do have a role in our own well being. If your not changing your work habbits and passing the torch, I don't think it's realistic to expecta doc to prevent the inevatable by making you dependnet on opiate pain medication. It will work for a while, but eventually no amount of pain meds is going to allow a 60 year old to slinghg block 8 hours a day 6 days a week. That's not a reasonable expectation or a reasonable request.
Construction work , even if you're the forman, or general contractor or supervisor on the job will put you in the position of having to make the decision to wait for help to do something you know how to do and would have done it yourself 10 years ago. But that was before multiple back surgeries and when you were 10 years younger. Opiates aren't the fontain of youth, they shouldn't be used to continue to engage in activity that you know will cause you pain severe enough to need narcotic pain meds. We allhave some degree of control over what we are wiling to subject ourself too. If you come across as completely unreasonable, unbending and unwilling to make modifications to your life and work load. I don't think it's reasonaable to expect a doc to dope you up so you can keep going when you know you simply masking the damage you could otherwise avoid.
Just some things to consider Take care, Dave
bilbo42
03-09-2007, 11:26 PM
Thanks shoreline, You opened my eyes in some areas but closed them tighter in others. I do not do heavy construction except when it comes to snow removal. the tractor does it for me. but I still get uncomfortable bouncing around in the cab. No, I'm the guy who goes in and sets the door locks ,hooks up the plumbing , adjustst the hydraulic door closer, Menial tasks like that. The company I work for has several properties and I manage them all. I rarely do any heavy lifting without help.
With all the surgeries with the exception of the two back surgeris were sport related(football, softball & bowling) I also rode dirt bikes alot and picked my self up off the ground several times. I'm sure all these now are giving me fits.
Now for my back pain ..... The mornings are the best but as soon as I get out of bed and take my first steps it feels like my right thigh is just ripping apart. but by the end of the day my back and legs hurt so much all i can do is to sit down and strap on a big bag of frozen peas.
I do also take Lyrica and baclofin before bedtime. I bought an expensive bed and that did not ease my painat night evev with three pillows under my knees. I sold that one last month and I seem to sleep a little better. But if Lay flat on my back too long I'll wake up hurting and roll on to my side soon I'll wake up again as my shoulder is shooting pain up into my eyeball.
Now for the quality of life issues you stated. My wife, god bless her, loves to go out in the field with us. She does not hunt but will walk along when she can ......... She was diagnosed 4 years ago with Rhumatoid Arthritis at the age of 38 ! We have had some of the greatest conversations sitting around a campfire sipping hot chocolate and making smores. We both do it in pain most of the time but we still do because it's QUALITY TIME. I actually enjoy going to craft shows with her even if we both have to sit down for awhile and eat and drink some of the local fare. ( my favorire is homemade malts)
So I feel that saying something "is not quality of life" for one person may not fit another.
So, as you can see I'm not the only one under this roof in a lot of pain. When my wife has a bad flare up I have to pick up the slack. Sure our sons help when they can but they all work after school.
Take Care,
bilbo
With all the surgeries with the exception of the two back surgeris were sport related(football, softball & bowling) I also rode dirt bikes alot and picked my self up off the ground several times. I'm sure all these now are giving me fits.
Now for my back pain ..... The mornings are the best but as soon as I get out of bed and take my first steps it feels like my right thigh is just ripping apart. but by the end of the day my back and legs hurt so much all i can do is to sit down and strap on a big bag of frozen peas.
I do also take Lyrica and baclofin before bedtime. I bought an expensive bed and that did not ease my painat night evev with three pillows under my knees. I sold that one last month and I seem to sleep a little better. But if Lay flat on my back too long I'll wake up hurting and roll on to my side soon I'll wake up again as my shoulder is shooting pain up into my eyeball.
Now for the quality of life issues you stated. My wife, god bless her, loves to go out in the field with us. She does not hunt but will walk along when she can ......... She was diagnosed 4 years ago with Rhumatoid Arthritis at the age of 38 ! We have had some of the greatest conversations sitting around a campfire sipping hot chocolate and making smores. We both do it in pain most of the time but we still do because it's QUALITY TIME. I actually enjoy going to craft shows with her even if we both have to sit down for awhile and eat and drink some of the local fare. ( my favorire is homemade malts)
So I feel that saying something "is not quality of life" for one person may not fit another.
So, as you can see I'm not the only one under this roof in a lot of pain. When my wife has a bad flare up I have to pick up the slack. Sure our sons help when they can but they all work after school.
Take Care,
bilbo
onyxgates
03-10-2007, 01:21 AM
Bilbo: all too often we have to justify our pain...I am sorry you were made to do that here...we of all people should not question a person's pain. I hope that you and your wife continue to share the smores as it's the best.
rayefaye
03-10-2007, 03:48 PM
Hi bilbo:wave: I don't understand why someone said what they did about you just wanting something for pain so you could enjoy life. You can't be just needing it for you extra activities if you in a whole lot of pain at the end of the day. Just because you don't do nothing strainous doesn't mean that standing up all day and walking all around doesn't hurt as bad. I have RSD which effect the nerves and I have it real bad in my legs. If I stand on my legs for 8 hrs or more, by the end of the day my legs hurt so bad and feel pure numb from the pain. So from what I read your back problems effect everything about your day to day life which includes work as well as play. I do hope you can found a doctor who will help you and that is real understanding. I see my regular doctor about my condition because he knows how bad the pain can be and I prefer him to a pain specialist. I wish you and your wife well because I also suffer from arthritis in my knees, hips and ankles and I know had bad it can be. Especially, since the weather plays a big part in how bad I hurt sometimes.
HBMod07
03-10-2007, 11:37 PM
To all Members:
Please refrain from passing judgment upon others. Individuals come here for support and not to be chastised. Doing so will result in permanent loss of posting privileges.
Ask questions, wait for feedback and read carefully. Do not assume anything based on minimal information and do not ask members to justify themselves.
Please refrain from passing judgment upon others. Individuals come here for support and not to be chastised. Doing so will result in permanent loss of posting privileges.
Ask questions, wait for feedback and read carefully. Do not assume anything based on minimal information and do not ask members to justify themselves.