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DAVID_1157
06-06-2002, 03:09 PM
Hi. I've just turned 20 and have since January been working out in the gym about three times a week. My weight to start with was about 65 kilos and is now approaching 69 (150 lbs). My height is 1.78 metres (about five foot nine I think. Although I have noticed improvements all round (particularly in my biceps and shoulders), this doesn't seem like much for the effort I have put in. I have also been eating better - trying to get more protein into my diet. I guess I was more proportionally fat before, so I might have gained more muscle than I think.

Do you think that 4 kilos is reasonable in weight-gain for six months, three times a week, or am I doing something wrong?

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DAVID_1157
06-06-2002, 03:31 PM
Also:

What's the deal with eating straight after a workout. Is it a good idea to eat a lot of protein immediately after the workout? I tend to have lunch around 1, then go to the gym, then eat maybe a chocolate bar, then have dinner at around 6. Am I leaving the protein too late to rebuild the muscle I have damaged while working out?

Naxis
06-06-2002, 03:34 PM
Absolutely. Chances are you have lost more fat so the weight gain for LBM seems like less... use measuring tape, the mirror and a fat caliper to gauge your progress in muscular development. Also, what is your goal and what does your routine look like? You only mentioned 3 days a week in the gym. If it's 20 minutes a shot, you're probably not going to see much for gains. If you're training hard for an hour each time, you may be doing somehting wrong.

Naxis
06-06-2002, 03:39 PM
...carbs is what you want right after a work out first and foremost. (A chocolate bar is not a clean diet ;) ) Your post workout _meal_ should have a fair amount of protein, but immediately after you lift, your glycogen stores need to be replenished in order for your body to start the repairs. A shake/drink is the quickest way to do this (quickly absorbed by the body.)

DAVID_1157
06-06-2002, 03:41 PM
Well my goal originally was to hit 70 kilos by Easter. I managed 68, then it slipped back to 66, as I was working over Easter and only went to the gym about twice. I probably wasn't eating well as well. I slowly got it back to what it was now, with the aim of hitting 70 by the end of June, when I go home for the holidays. Now I'm aiming for 69 by then. I probably won't be able to work out much over the summer, as I will be in Africa (where my family now lives).

I do about one hour at the gym each time. I do 1500 metres on the rowing machine to start with (in approx. 6 minutes). I do upper body one day and legs two days later. On the upper body days I do a rep of legs as well, to try to keep them in shape. On the legs days I usually do a bench press.

I do reps of 12, 10, 8 then 6 of each exercise. A friend told me this is the best way to gain muscle. On upper body days, I start with the bench press, then do the butterfly thing, then shoulder raise, then pull down. Then I do biceps, then forearms (which I'm realy trying to improve). Do you think the first four exercises concentrate too much on the shoulder, and I'm overdoing it?

DAVID_1157
06-06-2002, 03:43 PM
Shake/Drink - Have you heard of Lucozade? I think it's similar to Gatrorade which I know exists in the U.S. I sometimes drink that before a workout. If I drink that during/after, will that help my muscles rebuild better?

DAVID_1157
06-07-2002, 05:43 AM
Thanks a lot for your response so far, but here is another question:

If chocolate isn't a good snack, what would you recommend for in between meals when I get hungry?

ScottGee
06-10-2002, 10:28 PM
Bump to the top...

Good answers Naxis, Come on... I know you guys have some great info for David...

Hey, David, there is a lot of great information here. Don't give up. We will have you on the right track before you know it.

If you don't have time to eat something good as far as food like a few ounces of chicken, tuna, or lean beef and aome veggies for a snack. try some meal replacement bars or RTD'S (ready to drink) shakes.

Candy bar????? Naaaah. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/dizzy.gif

DAVID_1157
06-25-2002, 07:19 AM
UPDATE

Thanks a lot for your help guys. For the past week and a half I have been out of university halls and have moved into my own flat. This is great as I can now cook for myself, and since there are no students around I am drinking far less.

DIET

I have been trying to eat about five or six meals a day to help me rebuild my muscle which I damage when I go to the gym. I have been eating a tin of tuna a day (usually two sandwiches), about three bowls of corn flakes a day, and for dinner some meat or pasta. I have laid off the chocolate or any snacks like that. For snacks I now eat an apple or toast or a tuna/ham/cheese sandwich or cereal. I have found that this has reduced my fat level even further. One problem I now have is I'm often hungry and can't fill myself up, despite eating six times a day. I also counted up my calories one day and it was about 2000 only, whereas when I was eating chocolate and stuff it was at a higher level. Does it matter that my calorie intake is so low? Any ideas on how I can raise it?

EXERCISE

I still go three times a week, but I have changed my routine. I have found that I am doing the same weights I have been doing for a while, and they're easier than they were before. I'm now raising the weights so that it kills me each set I do.

I've also started doing a few sets of different ab muscle exsercises first thing every morning. Is it a good idea to do this every morning?

Another problem I have is that I want to work out three times a week. At the moment I do one day upper body (shoulders, pectorals, abs and arm muscles) and two days later legs. So one week I do legs twice and the next I do upper body twice. Is there a way I can divide this into three different muscle groups - one for each work out every day of the week or is it fine the way I do it now?

WEIGHT

It has dropped a little (about half a kilo) but this is probably due my not eating junk food and the level of beer drunk dropping considerabely as there are no students around.

C.J.W. Fit
06-25-2002, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by DAVID_1157:
Also:

What's the deal with eating straight after a workout. Is it a good idea to eat a lot of protein immediately after the workout? I tend to have lunch around 1, then go to the gym, then eat maybe a chocolate bar, then have dinner at around 6. Am I leaving the protein too late to rebuild the muscle I have damaged while working out?
It is documented that one should consume between 100-200 grams of carbs within 2 hrs. after exercise, the reason being, in order to restore the glycogen stored in muscle tissue. Muscle stores glycogen, which is used for energy, and if you do not restore what you have used as well as the reserve you have then you will deplete yourself. Also, it is highly recommended that you compliment this with a high protein food as well.

Naxis
06-25-2002, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by DAVID_1157:
UPDATE

DIET

I have been trying to eat about five or six meals a day to help me rebuild my muscle which I damage when I go to the gym. I have been eating a tin of tuna a day (usually two sandwiches), about three bowls of corn flakes a day, and for dinner some meat or pasta. I have laid off the chocolate or any snacks like that. For snacks I now eat an apple or toast or a tuna/ham/cheese sandwich or cereal. I have found that this has reduced my fat level even further. One problem I now have is I'm often hungry and can't fill myself up, despite eating six times a day. I also counted up my calories one day and it was about 2000 only, whereas when I was eating chocolate and stuff it was at a higher level. Does it matter that my calorie intake is so low? Any ideas on how I can raise it?

This seems like a no-brainer, but since you asked.... eat more! ;) You say you're still hungry and have too low caloric intake, the problem and solution are right there. Add a sweet potato or another can of tuna, some whole wheat breads, veggies. For your size, you could easily add 500 calories a day without worry of gaining fat, as long as it's quality calories.


EXERCISE

I still go three times a week, but I have changed my routine. I have found that I am doing the same weights I have been doing for a while, and they're easier than they were before. I'm now raising the weights so that it kills me each set I do.

I've also started doing a few sets of different ab muscle exsercises first thing every morning. Is it a good idea to do this every morning?

Another problem I have is that I want to work out three times a week. At the moment I do one day upper body (shoulders, pectorals, abs and arm muscles) and two days later legs. So one week I do legs twice and the next I do upper body twice. Is there a way I can divide this into three different muscle groups - one for each work out every day of the week or is it fine the way I do it now?

Lifting to failure is the best way to keep putting on mass. The key is to push yourself a little harder every time you go to the gym. Even if it's only one more rep than last time, one more set or a 10 pound increase... if you push, you'll see gains.

Ab exercises are generally okay to do every day, although you will get a lot of varying opinions on this issue. Having a strong torso (abs and lower back) is extremely helpful in safely lifting and general body strength and balance.

For your split, an upper and lower body staggered every couple days isn't the best way to do it, in my humble opinion. Almost everyone does a different split, but dividing into 3 days is pretty easy. Try something like this (staggered however you distribute lifting days throughout the week):

1. Chest, triceps, claves

2. Legs (glutes, quads, hams)

3. Back, shoulders, biceps

(with abs every morning, should be a well rounded lifting schedule) Tweak as you see fit, obviously. I like to do a day of just bi's and tri's to really blast them, but a lot of people don't like that method. It's a personal choice you should make when you see how your body responds to different workouts.




[This message has been edited by Naxis (edited 06-26-2002).]

DAVID_1157
07-16-2002, 07:44 AM
Thanks Naxis, but I still have one more question. On the day where I do chest, triceps and calves, is it O.K. to do the bench press as a chest exercise even though it uses shoulders as well, or is the bench press a better idea to do on the shoulder day? If it is O.K. that would be cool as I can do the bench press, buttefly thing and triceps on the first day, leg squats, and other leg exercises on the second day, and shoulder lift up, shoulder lift down, back and calves on the third day.

Naxis
07-16-2002, 12:43 PM
benches are best on chest day since pecs are the primary muscles used, triceps secondary and shoulders as stabilizers mostly.

DAVID_1157
07-24-2002, 08:16 AM
UPDATE

Thanks guys for your help. I have beeen sticking with this routine for over a month now. I have to be honest though and say that the diet part is hard to stick to still. I do eat a tuna sandwich for lunch, with a whole tin of tuna. I do eat a LOT of cereal for breakfast which is high in carbs and protien, I do eat chicken quite often for dinner, and I don't eat fatty foods much at all (way less than before last month anyway). However, it's hard to eat five meals a day, as I'm often out doing other things, so I tend to stick with three meals a day.

My workout is now as you suggested, three times a week.

I am also doing a good 100-150 sit ups in the morning firat thing, and 50-100 before I go to bed.

My weight is STILL the same though, (just below 70 kgs). Either I am still losing fat, or I am just not building muscle as I would like (I think the latter is more the case).

So I was thinking, after seven months of working out and still no fantastic results to speak of, would a suplement thing help. I know nothing about protein supplements, but I think that taking loads of protein combined with my work-out might just help a little.
I know I could probably do better without it if I really stuck to my diet properly, but with the way things are, so you think that supplements would help give noticeable results?

If so what would you recommend, how long would it take to work, and approximatelty how much would it cost?

Thanks a lot.

Naxis
07-24-2002, 11:31 AM
It doesnt sound like lack of protein is your problem. Count up the grams of protein you get every day from chicken and tuna and whatever else. If it is roughly 1g per lb body weight, you're fine. You just arent eating enough. You need more good carbs and calories overall to grow. It's possible that you are losing fat, but since muscle gain the the goal, you need to work toward that. When bulking, you shouild actually expect to gain some fat.
Supplementing in general is not inexpensive, but it depends on your priorities. You can get powders, bars, shakes and even pills. I keep protein bars around the house for healthy chocolate-craving-killers, but it sounds like you'll want a weight gainer, if anything. And possibly creatine, though it's had unfortunately little effect on me, fares better for males in general (any interjection ugotme?). But before supplementing, make sure your workout is working... you should be at least a little sore every time.

Do you have a shake or anything right after lifting? This is a VERY important "meal". Within 15 minutes of your last rep, your body starts repairs. Glycogen stores will be way down and they need to be filled quickly. A high carb shake, or even a soda (this is the only time I recommend simple carbs) right after weight lifting will help the process right along. Dextrose is the recommended carb, but any will do. And, of course, the post workout meal - clean protein and complex carbs.

DAVID_1157
07-25-2002, 01:25 PM
Naxis:

I don't take a shake after a workout. I only drink water. Then I walk home and usually have a meal (usually my lunch), but that can be half an hour to an hour after my work out. I will start taking something now straight after my work-out. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by shake but we have this thing here called Lucozade (sports drink) which is recommended that you take before during and after sport (must be full of carbs). I think I'll start drinking one of these after a workout and see if it helps. Otherwise does Coke do pretty much the same? If it does I might just get this, as it is cheaper.

I am currently a little sore after each workout so I don't think there are any problems with my workout. I think I underdo the legs a little, but that's because I'm scared of doing my back in on the squats. I usually get a slight pain in my lower back after sqauts, even though I'm really careful not to bend my back when I do these.

I will also try to eat more, although I find this really hard, as I run out of things to eat that are good for me. (I'm sick of tuna sandwiches and am lazy when it comes to cooking - one cooked meal a day is enough for me!).

But you're probably right, the supplements won't do much.

I'll take your advice and keep you updated. Thanks a lot again for your help.

DAVID_1157
09-19-2002, 11:21 AM
Hey guys. I'm back with anothter update and some more questions - yet again!

During August I had to get a job and all I could get was a job in a night club, meaning that I worked nights - from 9 'til about 6, and slept all day. So I didn't go to the gym all month. I also began to eat like I was before again. Very bad of me, I know.

But now I'm back to training - 2 weeks now, and back to a good healthy diet. I'm back to 69 kilos now ( I was 67.5 after that bad month). I'm also just about back to lifting the weights I could before I stopped working out.

Here's my work-out.

Saturday: Chest, Triceps, Biceps and Calves.

Bench Press - Four sets of 12, 10, 8 and 6.
Butterfly Chest Thing - Four sets of 12, 10, 8 and 6.
Biceps Pulley standing up lifting - Three sets of 10
Triceps Pull down thing - Three sets of 10.
Calf Raise - Three sets of 10

Tuesday - Legs:

Squats - Four sets of 12, 10, 8 and 6.
Hamstring raise lying on front - Four sets of 12, 10, 8 and 6.
Quadricep thing where you raise your legs - Four sets of 12, 10, 8 and 6.
Thing where you sit down and push huge weights with your legs (works glutes as well) - Four sets of 12, 10, 8 and 6.
Calf Raise - Three sets of 10


Shoulders, Biceps, Back, Calves

Shoudler Raise - Four sets of 12, 10, 8 and 6.
Pull Down - Four sets of 12, 10, 8 and 6.
Biceps Pulley standing up lifting - Three sets of
Calf Raise - Three sets of 10

I also so sit ups every day (50 normal with legs bent, left side, middle then right side, 50 where I pull my legs into my body as I raise my back off the ground, and 50 with my legs on a chair).

Oh yeah, and I also do forearms every day that I work out.

Anyone see any problems with this work out?

Is it O.K. to do my calves, forearms and biceps so often?

I heard someone say you should do 20 calf raises and 20 squats in a set. Is this true?

After working out I ride fast home on my bike (is this a good idea?) and then load up on carbs (plate of rice, cous-cous pasta or bread). Should I be aiming to eat protein after a work-out?

Thanks for your help.

DAVID_1157
09-19-2002, 11:23 AM
Whoops, just saw the answer about carbs/protein in a post above. Don't bother answering that guys!





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