suddenlyhere
03-15-2007, 06:26 PM
Hi All,
Can someone tell me the difference between BP & Schizophrenia please. Are there any defining symptoms that separate the two.
Thankyou!
Can someone tell me the difference between BP & Schizophrenia please. Are there any defining symptoms that separate the two.
Thankyou!
Sponsor
tsohl
03-15-2007, 06:56 PM
Hi Suddenly,
I'll take a crack at that question with a very much simplified explanation.
First, there are many similarities between the two. Both experience episodes of mania and depression. Both conditions respond to antipsychotic medication, and both frequently involve psychotic symptoms like delusions and hallucinations. However, schizophrenia almost always also involves disorders of thinking and the periods of paranoid delusions and of hallucinations is much more prevalent. What we think of as "mood swings" is more common in bipolarity. People with BP can be treated with mood stabilizers such as lithium, and no other medication, but this isn't possible with schizophrena. In other words, if there is a patient who might be bipolar or schizophrenic and the diagnosis is not clear, they can use medication to test the diagnosis -- only the bipolar patient will respond to a mood stabilizer and also to electroconvulsive therapy. Thoughts and behaviors are disorganized in a schizophrenic person, and he is usually perceived as being really "strange" and "odd", sometimes "frightening."
Schizophrenia is considered the most severe of the mental illnesses. Does this help any?
I'll take a crack at that question with a very much simplified explanation.
First, there are many similarities between the two. Both experience episodes of mania and depression. Both conditions respond to antipsychotic medication, and both frequently involve psychotic symptoms like delusions and hallucinations. However, schizophrenia almost always also involves disorders of thinking and the periods of paranoid delusions and of hallucinations is much more prevalent. What we think of as "mood swings" is more common in bipolarity. People with BP can be treated with mood stabilizers such as lithium, and no other medication, but this isn't possible with schizophrena. In other words, if there is a patient who might be bipolar or schizophrenic and the diagnosis is not clear, they can use medication to test the diagnosis -- only the bipolar patient will respond to a mood stabilizer and also to electroconvulsive therapy. Thoughts and behaviors are disorganized in a schizophrenic person, and he is usually perceived as being really "strange" and "odd", sometimes "frightening."
Schizophrenia is considered the most severe of the mental illnesses. Does this help any?
tsohl
03-15-2007, 06:59 PM
To me a defining behavior would be that the schizophrenic often thinks really outlandish, impossible things are happening...like aliens are sleeping in the next room, stealing his toothpaste, or the planet is being invaded and he will be the only person allowed to continue living. People with bipolar can have unusual ideas, but they usually aren't so extreme and they have some basis in reality, even though you might not believe what they are saying....
Did you have your confrontation with the parents? We haven't heard from you in awhile.
:wave: Tsohl
Did you have your confrontation with the parents? We haven't heard from you in awhile.
:wave: Tsohl
tsohl
03-15-2007, 07:01 PM
Speaking of disorganized thinking...:D
another thing: the hallucinations are much less common in BPers. All schizophrenics hear voices, or see weird things that aren't really there. BPers may have brief hallucinations or for a short period of time, but it isn't a major component of their disorder.
another thing: the hallucinations are much less common in BPers. All schizophrenics hear voices, or see weird things that aren't really there. BPers may have brief hallucinations or for a short period of time, but it isn't a major component of their disorder.
suddenlyhere
03-15-2007, 08:27 PM
Hi Tsohl,
Thanks for trying to clarify the difference for me. I am still a bit confused though!
I am feeling exhausted, just so emotionally drained. I am trying to refocus myself, and get my strength back. Thanks for asking - you are always so helpful, knowlegable, and supportive. Thank you.
Thanks for trying to clarify the difference for me. I am still a bit confused though!
I am feeling exhausted, just so emotionally drained. I am trying to refocus myself, and get my strength back. Thanks for asking - you are always so helpful, knowlegable, and supportive. Thank you.
tsohl
03-15-2007, 09:22 PM
I was about to make what is probably a really stupid comment....Actually I think I'll go ahead and make it. I think it is especially difficult to accept when your child is very accomplished. It is hard to believe that a son who is a doctor could have this happen and not know what is going on, ( or know and not be willing to accept it). That is hard to imagine...I can relate to this. ;)
What are you confused over? Maybe I can explain better if I know. It is confusing as many of the symptoms are the same...but think of schizophrenia as the "more severe" of the two. BP might say "I'm going to create the best invention of all time, greater than anything that's ever been done." SZ would say " A 12-foot tall man from Mars came to me with an invention that I am going to present to the people of the Earth; after that I am going to fly back to Mars with him to receive the highest award they can bestow from their leader."
The SZ would be the person with garbled speech standing on the street corner "babbling" about something that no one else can understand. Unmedicated, most would have a hard time functioning in society.
Disclaimer: I apologize for the generalizations and hope I'm not offending anyone. I am putting this in the most general of terms to try to help you get a feel for the difference!!:eek:
What are you confused over? Maybe I can explain better if I know. It is confusing as many of the symptoms are the same...but think of schizophrenia as the "more severe" of the two. BP might say "I'm going to create the best invention of all time, greater than anything that's ever been done." SZ would say " A 12-foot tall man from Mars came to me with an invention that I am going to present to the people of the Earth; after that I am going to fly back to Mars with him to receive the highest award they can bestow from their leader."
The SZ would be the person with garbled speech standing on the street corner "babbling" about something that no one else can understand. Unmedicated, most would have a hard time functioning in society.
Disclaimer: I apologize for the generalizations and hope I'm not offending anyone. I am putting this in the most general of terms to try to help you get a feel for the difference!!:eek:
suddenlyhere
03-15-2007, 10:17 PM
Hi Tsohl,
Your comment was incredibly relevant, and understandable, and you are right. I knew it was a biggie, and it shellshocked them. They have all the clues, it is just a matter of whether they want to believe it now. All the signs are there,I know that my family would get me help. My confusion between sch and bp. It appears that it would be hard for a person to continue in their daily tasks with sch, wheras, in bp it seems absolutely possible. I have read a little on sch, and it appears that it is quite hard to go back to normal life after an episode, however with bp it appears that people can go through quite a few episodes without diagnoses, until they become severe enough to be noticed.
Anyway, I am no expert on any of this, so I really value all the feedback.
Thanks Tsohl, this time, and for every time!
Your comment was incredibly relevant, and understandable, and you are right. I knew it was a biggie, and it shellshocked them. They have all the clues, it is just a matter of whether they want to believe it now. All the signs are there,I know that my family would get me help. My confusion between sch and bp. It appears that it would be hard for a person to continue in their daily tasks with sch, wheras, in bp it seems absolutely possible. I have read a little on sch, and it appears that it is quite hard to go back to normal life after an episode, however with bp it appears that people can go through quite a few episodes without diagnoses, until they become severe enough to be noticed.
Anyway, I am no expert on any of this, so I really value all the feedback.
Thanks Tsohl, this time, and for every time!
tsohl
03-15-2007, 10:35 PM
It is very hard as a parent to accept that your son has BP, at any age. And part of it is because they can be so capable. Our son went all through high school, a very competitive private prep school, overachieving as he went, got into a top college and graduated in 4 years with academic honors. He covered his illness from us up until his 3rd year of college, when I found out by accident. And I still didn't find out what it was all about for a couple more years!! I'd heard of it..."oh yeah, that mood swing thing" was about how I thought about it.
According to the books I've read, most people do not seek help or get a diagnosis for 10 years after developing BP...so, yes, many people are able to cope ok without treatment for a long time. With schizophrenia, people are usually able to see a change right away in the person, and the person really can't function much at all.
Ok...that's what I know for now.
How are you doing??
Tsohl
According to the books I've read, most people do not seek help or get a diagnosis for 10 years after developing BP...so, yes, many people are able to cope ok without treatment for a long time. With schizophrenia, people are usually able to see a change right away in the person, and the person really can't function much at all.
Ok...that's what I know for now.
How are you doing??
Tsohl
suddenlyhere
03-15-2007, 11:19 PM
Thanks Tsohl.
That does clarify it a bit for me. It must have been a challenging time for your family when you realized that your son needed your help, and to get some treatment. I am going okay, I am just a bit exhausted at the moment, pysically and mentally drained - I will be fine, just need a bit of a wind down, which I will do over the weekend. I will be around a bit more then to catch up on what is happening with everyone.
Thanks again, and I hope all is well with you at the moment.
That does clarify it a bit for me. It must have been a challenging time for your family when you realized that your son needed your help, and to get some treatment. I am going okay, I am just a bit exhausted at the moment, pysically and mentally drained - I will be fine, just need a bit of a wind down, which I will do over the weekend. I will be around a bit more then to catch up on what is happening with everyone.
Thanks again, and I hope all is well with you at the moment.
tsohl
03-16-2007, 01:15 AM
There is an excellent organization called the National Institute of Mental Health that is involved with a lot of research. They have a good website that you can access that will completely explain all about sch. and bp as well as other mental illnesses. It has tons of information on the website. If you have time, you should take a look at it.
Thanks for the kind words. I am lucky in that our son manages his "dis-ease" on his own, and very well. ;)
kind regards,
Tsohl
Thanks for the kind words. I am lucky in that our son manages his "dis-ease" on his own, and very well. ;)
kind regards,
Tsohl
emeraldeyes114
03-16-2007, 04:22 AM
Tsohl thank you for the information as well. I have always wondered what the differences might be between the two of them. I know remember from some general reading I have done in the past that they seemed rather vague in some ways. I know there are those who have both at once. So now with what you said I think I need to look into it a bit further.
Thanks!
:) Emerald
Thanks!
:) Emerald
Tay Tay88
03-17-2007, 07:20 AM
Hey
I'm taking a psych class...so heres the differences from the book
Bipolar:
Feelings of Grandiosity (like believing you're the king of england)
excitment (when manic)
increased spending
schizophrenia:
rigid posture
catatonic-bizarre posturing
pacing
rocking
Both:
hallucinations
delusions
form of thought
^ psychotic symptoms
Affect ( facial expressions)
^ flat w/flat monotone voice
inappropriate expression to content of speech
Interpersonal functioning
^ social withdraw
emotional detachment
increased isolation
decreased functioning
lack of energy to accomplish things
Grooming
^ disheveled appearance
poor hygiene
schizophrenia is a chronic mental disorder in which the individual cannot separate fantasy from reality. It is the most common psych disorder.
Bipolar disorder or Manic depressive disorder is when the patient primarily displays two different behaviors: extreme excitment and depression.
well I hope this helped
I'm taking a psych class...so heres the differences from the book
Bipolar:
Feelings of Grandiosity (like believing you're the king of england)
excitment (when manic)
increased spending
schizophrenia:
rigid posture
catatonic-bizarre posturing
pacing
rocking
Both:
hallucinations
delusions
form of thought
^ psychotic symptoms
Affect ( facial expressions)
^ flat w/flat monotone voice
inappropriate expression to content of speech
Interpersonal functioning
^ social withdraw
emotional detachment
increased isolation
decreased functioning
lack of energy to accomplish things
Grooming
^ disheveled appearance
poor hygiene
schizophrenia is a chronic mental disorder in which the individual cannot separate fantasy from reality. It is the most common psych disorder.
Bipolar disorder or Manic depressive disorder is when the patient primarily displays two different behaviors: extreme excitment and depression.
well I hope this helped
fiesty_leo
03-17-2007, 08:37 AM
Hi,
I'm studying psychology too, Tay_Tay. I always find it interesting reading "textbook" definitions of bipolar/schizophrenia whatever...and with me having bipolar and my best friend having paranoid schizophrenia (we met at university and neither of us "came out" until after we were friends), I am so thankful for the insight that having "hands-on" experience - rather than just textbook knowledge - has given us. To answer the original question...I think it depends on the sub-type of schizophrenia, as to the symptoms and how it differs from bipolar. My understanding is that with paranoid schizophrenia, it is delusions/hallucinations that predominate, with disorganised thought (eg the stereotypical 'person on the street corner talking to themselves'), flattened affect and dishevelled appearance not being nearly as common as with the 'disorganised' subtype. Bipolar tends to have the most in common with paranoid schizophrenia (with MANY symptoms being shared), with the main difference being that bp tends to be episodic (with *usually* milder symptoms between episodes) while schizophrenia is chronic. From what I've seen of my friend when she doesn't take her meds, I also think that anti-psychotics (well at least Seroquel) are more immediate-acting, whereas (unless you currently have symptoms) many bipolar meds tend to be preventative.
I'm studying psychology too, Tay_Tay. I always find it interesting reading "textbook" definitions of bipolar/schizophrenia whatever...and with me having bipolar and my best friend having paranoid schizophrenia (we met at university and neither of us "came out" until after we were friends), I am so thankful for the insight that having "hands-on" experience - rather than just textbook knowledge - has given us. To answer the original question...I think it depends on the sub-type of schizophrenia, as to the symptoms and how it differs from bipolar. My understanding is that with paranoid schizophrenia, it is delusions/hallucinations that predominate, with disorganised thought (eg the stereotypical 'person on the street corner talking to themselves'), flattened affect and dishevelled appearance not being nearly as common as with the 'disorganised' subtype. Bipolar tends to have the most in common with paranoid schizophrenia (with MANY symptoms being shared), with the main difference being that bp tends to be episodic (with *usually* milder symptoms between episodes) while schizophrenia is chronic. From what I've seen of my friend when she doesn't take her meds, I also think that anti-psychotics (well at least Seroquel) are more immediate-acting, whereas (unless you currently have symptoms) many bipolar meds tend to be preventative.
michael178
03-17-2007, 12:51 PM
Schitzoprenia involves psychosis as a rule, bipolar people can have brief bouts of psychosis but not as a rule. People with schizophrenia have a difficult time with sensorary experiences because colors and sounds are heightened and they are not able to filter what they experience. A background noise is as important as all other noises. Most people can filter out and ignore a person lightly tapping a table top across the room, but people with schizophrenia are unable to do that. In short their experience of the world around them is filled with a rush of distracting noises and sounds and bright lights, and on top of that they experience voices talking to them, voices they cannot distinguish from other voices, say from someone speaking behind them. People with bipolar include many of those with artistic temperaments and abilities, not so with schizophrenia. And on and on, but I think those are among the main distinguishing highlights.
michael178
03-17-2007, 12:52 PM
Schizophrenia involves psychosis as a rule, bipolar people can have brief bouts of psychosis but not as a rule. People with schizophrenia have a difficult time with sensory experiences because colors and sounds are heightened and they are not able to filter what they experience. A background noise is as important as all other noises. Most people can filter out and ignore a person lightly tapping a table top across the room, but people with schizophrenia are unable to do that. In short their experience of the world around them is filled with a rush of distracting noises and sounds and bright lights, and on top of that they experience voices talking to them, voices they cannot distinguish from other voices, say from someone speaking behind them. People with bipolar include many of those with artistic temperaments and abilities, not so with schizophrenia. And on and on, but I think those are among the main distinguishing highlights.
fiesty_leo
03-17-2007, 08:54 PM
People with schizophrenia have a difficult time with sensory experiences because colors and sounds are heightened and they are not able to filter what they experience. A background noise is as important as all other noises. Most people can filter out and ignore a person lightly tapping a table top across the room, but people with schizophrenia are unable to do that. In short their experience of the world around them is filled with a rush of distracting noises and sounds and bright lights.
Hi Michael,
It's interesting you make this distinction, as heightened sensory experiences are actually common in mania/hypomania as well. When I'm a bit rattled (but not necessarily in a full blown "episode"), that's one of the first indications that things aren't quite right.
Hi Michael,
It's interesting you make this distinction, as heightened sensory experiences are actually common in mania/hypomania as well. When I'm a bit rattled (but not necessarily in a full blown "episode"), that's one of the first indications that things aren't quite right.