I am serious when i ask this, please understand i have not been around addicts and their behavoiur before my sons problem. i will fill you in as short as possible..my son is almost 21 was abusing opiates for some time im not real sure when it started, it could have been in h.s. he has had soem emotional problems depression, anxiety possibly bipolar..he did go thru a 28 day inpatient rehab and did well. he is now 45 days clean of any kind of drugs. he is on an antidepressant. he goes to a pdoc and will see an addiction therapist soon. he has seen one 2 weeks ago before he came home. he goes to n.a meetings almost every night and seems to feel better afterwards. my question is this, because of his age all his real friends (not his drug buddies) drink when they socialize. you cannot change that , thats is what most young people do its sad but true. Can he drink a beer or 2 or should he avoid all his friends completely? drinking was never his problem, but im thinking he should avoid all contact..opinions please?

Hi Jules

I am sure some much more qualified parents will get on here after the wekend to talk with you. Weekends are pretty slow on the board a lot of times and here in the Northeast we are aditionally losing power in many places because of the torrential rains hitting.

I can speak to you as someone who has had close contact and relationships with family members who are recovering and active addicts in this sense: The closest family member went from alcohol to gambling before becoming truly clean and sober. It encompassed a 20 year long battle before true sobriety and true clean living occured. He became sober from alcohol and in doing so, became addicted heavily to gambling by playing cribbage for big money (at the older AA, where at one time long ago, gambling with cards was actually allowed at the clubhouse. I do not know if the AA clubhouses even exist anymore and I am sure that if they do, no gambling would be allowed).

The other family member went from lots of various drugs, cleaned up from that in his younger days, then thought he could handle drinking. He became addicted to alcohol and has, a few years back, switched from alcohol (and no longer drinks) to gambling playing poker at the casinos and sometimes online. He does not accept nor recognize that he is addicted to gambling. I do not any longer confront him about his gambling at all because it is like confronting a druggie or an alcoholic when they are not sober and not willing to listen.

So I guess my reply to you is that I would encourage my own son if he were in the particular place your son is presently to steer absolutely clear of any kind of alcohol. Can he be with his friends who do drink? Quite honestly, he would put himself at too much risk of temptation at this point, in my opinion. because his recovery is at much too young a stage to try and test the waters with a 'beer or two."

Would he read eric's ma's thread? That could give him so much insight and serve him so well. If he disagrees to read it, you could, perhaps, just leave the thread open on your computer as a 'motherly nudge.' (moms of the world unite! Chuckles)

Lots of hope and blessings to your son and you.
reach

Thanks reach, i really dont want him to read erics mom because i posted on there and i need someplace of my own. he will know it was me posting.. i agree totally about what you were telling me..its called substituting, and when you have an addictive personality like he does, it will not work. i almost have to feel sorry for him. after all, he is 21 and all his peers are drinking and partying. he has been thru so much and i would hope that he would know better..the pdoc said that he needs to surrond himself, get addicted to n.a meetings and other addicts. he does know that and he is looking for a sponsor hopefully he will find one. my heart breaks for him each and every time i look in his face. yet, i know that if he goes back to drugs im going to have to make a huge decision and im praying that he doesnt put us in that place.

Hello Jules

My heart breaks for you and I am going to pray alongside of you that you can continue to influence his decisions and that he is able to stay strong and make the right choices.

I am so glad that he is going to lots of NA meetings. Those meetings are going to reinforce all he has been learning from the pdoc and hearing from you. This should give you great hope----don't ever lose that hope.

A suggestion for you? Try some Nar-anon meetings if they are available in your area, or some Al-anon meetings at the very least. Have to take care of you, too. Smiles.

With hope and blesings
reach

tHANKS REACH my husband and i are planning to go to a naranon meeting this week. i cant explain why but im so scared to go .i have been putting it off for too many weeks now..but i know we need to go. my son wants us to go.

Hi Jules

Just want you to know I am very proud of your son for wanting you and Hubby to go to a Nar-anon meeting. he must very much want your help and also want you to understand better. Good for him!

For what it is worth, Jules, I think you are scared becuase it involves your son and you are afraid of what you might hear concerning him and things you might have to do. Sister, you are thinking way too far ahead! I know that what has already occured has you on pins and needles.... but please try and work on not projecting into the future that I doubt seriously is even going to happen. I know we are understanding each other here.

Today is the day to live in... tomorrow will be waiting for you when you get there.

Hugs and hope
reach

reach, scared is an understatement. we are terrified.

Hi Jules

Yes, I understand the feeling of terror.... while I believe my advice about trying not to project into the future is sound advice, I don't know if I could truly follow it myself if I were sitting in your shoes. When it comes to our children, the bonds are just too deep and protective. Heck, I get concerned when my adult kids go on vacation, especially my 28 year old daughter, that something might hurt them. And my daughter is the most adventurous, capable kid of all (she spent 6 months in the Alaskan Wilderness on an internship studying some kind of endangered species, at age 21, and had to carry a shotgun with her in case of a bear attack! chuckles)

I guess the bottom line, Jules, is that we have to entrust our children to the Lord, in the end. For me, anyway, that is what I have come to believe. The most I can do is love them, teach them what I can and then pray and ask for protection from above to encircle them.

My prayers for your family is that you are each encircled with that protection and with peace. I am going to be away for a few days, but I will carry those prayers with me.

Please post after you attend your first Nar-Anon meeting. I know many of us will be curious to know if it helped you as a parent.

With continued hope
reach

Can he drink a beer or 2 or should he avoid all his friends completely? drinking was never his problem, but im thinking he should avoid all contact..opinions please?

This is a really, really, tough one... I have a daughter and I can understand your need to protect your son yet at the same time not suffocate him. You want to help him understand what the right decisions are but you also want him to make those decisions on his own, right?... ultimately, only your son can make this decision about his friends and whether or not an occasional social drink is ok for him. In my humble and honest opinion, I would discourage him from hanging out w/ friends that drink at all. It could be so easy for him to trade one addiction for another. Besides, it will be tough at first, sure... but so worth it if he can surround himself w/ people that can support him and his recovery, instead of people who could potentially sabotage it. So, that's my two cents worth! I wish you and your son the best of luck.

Jkm, i am trying to convince him of that..he has a couple of friends since kindergarten, they drink every weekend..i think he knows downdeep he should keep away. im trying to understand his point, he has been thru so much, he quit his job because of the heavy drug use there..he screwed up his 3rd year of college he had to withdraw. he is so lost and confused..he is meeting lots of people at the n.a meetings and speaking to them on the phone every day..But i agree, he should not have any alcohol at all, he can easily replace his addiction..scares me to death.

Oh Jules
My heart aches for you. I was where you are right now a short period of time ago. Having read my thread you know that my son is 28 and he has had a rough time of it. He too goes to many meetings and they help him so much. Our family attends meetings with him and we are seeing his counsler as a family too.
I pushed to hard at first for him to stay away from his old friends and he rebelled a little. He soon came to find out for himself that it was the right thing to do. He tried drinking a few times with his friends and soon found out that it made his depression worse The new friends he met at meetings soon replaced the ones he had. Eric also screwed up a good job and lost most of the things he had worked hard for. He has had to start all over again.
I know it is hard for you to beleive right now but it will get better as he continues to rack up clean days. One thing that really helped me was all the reading of threads on here that I did.
Eric had a very hard time of finding a doctor here that would not only listen but really hear him. We just didn't give up till we found one. Eric is healing more everyday.
I will be keeping you in my thoughts. I do know how scared you are right now and I wish I could help more.
Eric's ma

erics mom, every single thing you are telling me that happened to eric..is happening here.. we are having a tough time finding a doc that my son can have a good feeling about. he does definitly rebel when i try to explain the drinking to him..it makes him mad and more depressed. he is making friends with the people from n.a .speaking to them everyday.. he is just so lost,it is sad. he is so fragile. But hes also 51 days clean.:)

Jules,

My heart ges out to you and your family. Being in recovery since 1989 myself I feel I have some valid points for you to consider. if your son is attending NA meeting regularly then he will no doubt hear in each reading at the beginning of the meeting that alcohol IS a drug. We addicts cannot afford the luxery of a drink or any other substance that is mood modifying. As an addict I have first hand experience of substituting one drug for another and always ending back at the same place...BAD.
I will tell you that both my wife and I are in recovery and of the 3 children we have 2 are also in recovery. My daughter is going on 3 years of sobriety at the ripe old age of 18 and my 25 year old son just celebrated his 5th year clean and sober. What your son will find is that there are many ways to have fun without the use of alcohol and most likely find that with other recovering kids his age. He needs to get in the middle of the program and reach out, all his answers are there for the asking. He will find a bond with other kids his age and while he may remain friendly to his old crew if he is serious about his recovery and doing the right thing then he will find his time better spent with other recovering addicts. Time is the thing and it sounds as though he is doing well. His expression that you and your husband attend naranon is very encouraging, and there is nothing to fear about this group. If you go with an open heart and an open mind, reach out, ask questions then you too will find the support you require to nurture your souls and ease your mind. Addiction is a "Family Disease" and it is important that you do all you can do for yourselves and let your son find his way. he is going to many meetings and that is a very good sign.
I wish you all the best and hope that you are comforted.
God Bless.

cleanandserene

Thank you clean for you generous response, he is doing well and i really feel that deepdown he knows he shoudnt hang out with his old friends..its hard because he knows them for 15 yrs and he is only 21. He is meeting new friends at the meetings, unfourtantly most people at the meetings are older than him..he did meet a couple in their 20s. and another thing against him and im sure that you know this is that people in that age group drink every weekend ,its their form of socialization.(not from the meetings) he cant do that any longer..so he is so confused all the time. we spend time with him movies etc..but how long is he gonna want to hang with us. we just hope as he trying out new meetings he will meet more people his age to relate to. today is 51 days clean for him and he is proud. we did go to a naranon meeting last night and it was informative, im glad we went and we will continue to go..so much sadness.my heart was breaking. im just hoping that all the family support we give him will help him succeed...the statistics are so against him...

Jules is he still drinking, because there are many potential problems with this.

1 - Foremost, alcohol is a drug (that just happens to be legal) and it leads to relapse. The relapse is both the drinking itself, and that it leads to other drug use because inhibitions are down. An addict will invariably develop an alcoholic approach to drinking if given long enough, because he approaches alcohol differently from social drinkers. A social drinker (non-alcoholic) will get a drink and might not even finish. He may go to social events and drink, or he may not.

Alcoholics drink to feel the buzz. And just because they might not drink so much today, they will drink more over time.

2 - The 12-Step programs are based on total abstinence. Statistically nothing works better for addicts and alcoholics than programs like A.A., N.A., C.A. etc. Once he starts drinking, he will be shut out of these programs and on his own. An addict on his own has a much higher chance of relapse. My observation shows that in the long term (we're talking decades) people without a program of recovery inevitably relapse. Some make it years on their own, but always go back.

So, if he drinks, he shuts himself off from 12-Step Recovery, and may end up back on illicit drugs or develop a drinking problem.

3 - Finally, if alcohol is so important to him that he will not give it up, isn't that a sign of a problem right there? I got clean and sober pretty young and I know many others who did the same. We did not miss out on anything by not drinking except the potentially huge problems that might have resulted from it!

These are my responses to your questions on that subject.

podee, i hear everything you are saying..my answer is no he did not give up drinking all together. he did go out with friends last week for a couple of hours and told us he had 2 beers. he is most definitly not drinking every day . he just feels like that is what they do at 21 yrs old..im trying to explain to him that he is not a reg. 21 yr old he is on antidepressants and is an addict. therefore, he shoudnt be drinking at all. he is going thru a real rough patch in his life,lost his job, had to withdraw from school because he was in a 30 day inpatient re-hab..he has alot of mental healing to do.the list goes on and on. he needs to change his entire career path because of his past drug use. we have fought in this home for months now, we have peace..im just hopeing he figures it out on his own..i have to disagree with you about the meetings tho, you can go to those meetings if you are high or drunk, they will not throw you out. He does not have a sponsor but is looking for one.

Jules, it sounds to me that you are doing all that you can do and it it is up to your son to be responsible for his recovery. If he is like me (and it sounds that way), then he will not be able to drink successfully for very long and will most likely go back to his drug of choice. It may not happen immediately but it will happen. It also sounds as though you completely understand what your son must do in order to achieve ongoing sobriety, however just because many youths drink at 21 does not make that the thing to do, and i think you know that. I am not being condescending, just helping you to realize that it is not normal for your son, which I already think you know. An addict has a disease and must treat his life like someone who has a life threatening disease such as diabetes. For addicts, meetings and the 12 steps are our insilin. If i had diabetes i would not go out and eat a bag of sugar. I feel that you know this already, but unfortunately it is up to your son to be responsible, you can only do so much.
Your meetings are as important as his, so make sure you attend as many as you can, especially in the beginning. You will find that the knowledge you gain will make you strong in helping to deal with your son's ddicition, but more important to heal yourself. It sounds to me that you are doing this.
Good luck, my prayers are with you and your family.

cleanandserene

Clean i agree. i have been in a very negative way..i feel as thou i am consumed by him and talking to people like you make me feel like their is no hope for him at all..i know you are telling me like it is and others on this board make it sound even worse. i appreciate your thoughts and concerns but i think its best for me not to come on this board any longer..it is making me more negative and depressed. they are teaching me to have hope and faith..pretty much all i hear here is doom and gloom.

Jules, that is not what i mean. I am saying that he needs to be responsible for his recovery. As long as he goes to meetings there is hope. The people here are telling you what theyknow from their experiences. As you already know the statistics are against us from the beginning, so if you hear negativity please try to understand that this is not an easy thing to do and by sugar coating the problem will not make it go away. As I said previously you sound as though you already know what he needs to do to achieve sobriety but what you don't seem to understand is that you can't do it for him. There is much support and honesty on this board, please don't run away from the truth because it hurts. I am very supportive of your situation and as i siad previously i have two of my own children in recovery, total absitnence is the only way we have found. Please don't leave.
God Bless,

cleanandserene

jules3, one thing to keep in mind here is that many (maybe most?) of the people who hang here on a regular basis are hard core recovered or recovering addicts (someone pls correct me if Im wrong) so you tend to hear a lot of personal info from people who have been through rough times. you usually hear the worst case senarios. and they are truly trying to help. sometimes its best to err on the side of caution. but the addicts who have truly recovered and beat their demons usually leave the board after a while.

I can only give my personal info, and other here may disagree. maybe Im rare but I AM an addict and have abused almost everything BUT alcohol. I socially drink on occasion, and have never had any inclination during drinking to relapse to other drugs (that I might add are very easily obtainable).. maybe your son is like me..

drinking is a right of passage for youths it seems.. I drank a lot in HS but after that I only drank socially.

do his friends he drinks with do other drugs? if they do he should probably stop hanging with them. if they only drink maybe he will be OK.

wish I could help more. I just want you to see all sides of the story.

zeroman, he has ended all contact with people he bought and did drugs with..he stopped his cell phone service and started new. his real buddies do not use drugs at all. they drink beer not liquor..and they will do so while watching a baseball game hockey game things like that. dont get me wrong, im well aware that beer is alcohol..he tells me he is not really crazy about drinking but he does for the social part of it. again, he just walked out my door to go to another meeting,he goes at least 5 nights a week. and talks to his rehab friends every day. goes to church every sunday and finds that to help him. we talk everyday about his addiction and he is well aware of his addictive personality. i do worry, he is my only son and i am crazy about him. i've learned i cant control his actions, he needs to do that himself. thank you..:)

if hes ditched the druggie "friends," going to church and NA meetings he is on the right track. and if he only drinks on weekends at sports bars and such with folks who dont do (other) drugs then I would not worry too much although I would still be concerned and monitor the situation.

as has been stated, the relapse rate is high but NOT 100%. its very possible he can socially drink and not become an alcoholic or addict again. I know because I have done it (10 years clean from abusing drugs), and I had to go on narcotics (my favorite) last year for my surgery. I controlled the doses and did it as perscribed. so there is hope. dont think that the worse case scenario will happen because it doesnt have to.

the best thing is to be open, honest and talk to him about your concerns, and it sounds like youre already doing that.

if he starts drinking alone or drinks till drunk as a skunk, thats a big concern, but social drinking is simply something he will have to watch to make sure he doesnt overdo it. the majority of people who drink socially do not become alcoholics or addicts, and of that set there is a subset of addictive personality types (like me) who can do it too and not relapse . I pray that your son is one of them.

Thanks zeroman, do you mind if i ask your age? My son has an addictive personality too. were you always like that? while in the re-hab he picked up the habit of chewing tobacco..all the other guys in there smoke and that he doesnt like..i dont like the chew stuff ,but its not drugs..hopefully, this too shall pass.:rolleyes: and we do spend alot of time with him talking and he knows he can come to us with anything now..this after the year from hell.

hi jules
I guess I am so so fortunate, my daughter cleaned up just before the drugs brought her to ruin. She was out there for a few years, I was terrified and shell shocked and cried myself to sleep for 2 years, blaming myself, worried sick about her.. Something clicked with her and she is clean today. We are miracles of our own demise. She knows of my past addictions, she had to endure and watch and live and breathe it out with me. It's tough, but it does happen. Renovation and repair, and prayers. To each it's own, Be true to thine self.
bless you
Kadee

HI jules

Im 45 and yes Ive always had an addictive personality. Ill give you the short version.

at around 18 I started in an about everything. booze, acid, benzos, weed, speed, coke.. anything you didnt need a needle for. I did most of it recreationally for about 5 years then freebasing coke got me pretty good for about 5 years on and off. so I did as your son did - changed my number, dumped my "friends" and stopped. then about a year after that I found my next demon.. narcotics. I did those in ungodly amounts for about 5 years until I got so sick of them ruling my life (like the coke did) that I stopped cold turkey. what fun. anyway since then Ive been OK although I still have to remind myself that if I let my guard down I can easily become my old self. this was what I constantly had to do while on narcotics for my back. the memories of what drugs almost cost me was always at the back of my mind (and sometimes at the front too :) ).

drinking (aside from a few years stint of getting stinking drunk a lot during my HS years) was always something I could take or leave. I drink socially maybe once or twice a month.

some addicts may not be able to handle alcohol socially. but some, as I do, can. I certainly dont have anymore willpower than the next addict, so I cant claim super powers or anything. God has been my guide for the last 10 years so any credit goes to Him.

Jules, there are many kinds of people in this world and recovery is not the same for everyone. If your son can drink successfully then I take my hat off to him, I suppose I was answering your posts through MY experience which I thought I was supposed to do. I am not judging you or your son. There are such people that go through life and have some addicition problems and then they stop. I look at these people as not true addicts even though they were addicted at one time. I have many friends like this.
I only wish the best for you and your family and will pray that he stays away from the hard stuff. I suppose you just need to have him monitor his drinking and hopefully he will continue with NA. There are many paths to recovery, I was only stating what has worked for me. The only thing that bothers me is that you put so much emphasis on the fact that drinking amongst young kids is some right of passage, and to some extent you are right, its just that its not for everyone. I wish you the best.

God Bless,

cleanandserene

Thanks for sharing your story with me.. I think what you said about letting your guard down is huge. because i feel that as long as he stays in this mindset he will be ok. the minute he lets his guard down, all it takes is 5 minutes to screw up and go back. i have been told if he goes back i am supposed to throw him out of the house. thats why im a wreck. i need to think positive.

Clean i appreciate your comments..remember, im learning..im 43 yrs old ,he is 21 in 2 days.. im scared because he will be legal. he is our only addict in the family so we are all learning together. I will watch him carefully, thats all i can do.

There are such people that go through life and have some addicition problems and then they stop. I look at these people as not true addicts even though they were addicted at one time.


I think your right in one way but not in another. Im sure there are many levels of addictive personalities. some addicts may be in danger of addiction to one drug but not another (I consider myself in that category). but others may become addicted to anything (chocolate, alcohol, gambling, drugs etc). both types are addicts in my book.

those who accidentally get hooked on pain killers or benzos via doctors orders but stop and never have another problem are the non addicts. they just happened to get addicted to something and not by choice. their personality is "normal" for want of a better word.

I am an addict, pure and simple. if the consequences werent so bad (like, well, death for one, loosing everything of value for another) I would still be freebasing and doing narcotics. I have no illusions about this.

jules, as clean said, there are all types. we can only pray your son is the type that wont trade one addiction for another, or just got addicted by accident. it sounds like he might be that type.

Clean i appreciate your comments..remember, im learning..im 43 yrs old ,he is 21 in 2 days.. im scared because he will be legal. he is our only addict in the family so we are all learning together. I will watch him carefully, thats all i can do.



You are right to educate yourelf and you are a good Mom. Keep the faith and pray to whomever you chose. As I said, their are many paths to recovery and as long as he talks to you and is honest and sincere in his inner struggle there i a chance. Keep up your positive attitude because it makes no sense to be negative. You will expend too much energy being negativeand live in a world of despair by too much worrying. He is young and addressing his problems at the right time in his life.
God Bless,

cleanandserene

clean, after re-reading my post I realise that saying your part right, part wrong was a mistake (and rude of me).. I apologise. instead, I should of said youre right but maybe you just didnt go far enough in categorising addicts. as we know, there are all kinds of people and all kinds of addicts. I did not mean to sound superior in any way and thats sort of how I cought it now that Ive re read it.

again, apologies.

Zeroman, I was not offended at all. What you say has a lot of merit and when I am writing on the computer I don't always go into great depth. Its hard to write everything you are thinking especially when you are doing other things. My intention was to speak from my experience, and yes, I realize that there are many different types of people and addicts, as I stated. There are many roads to recovery and we just need to find our path. I am happy that you can do what you do and are okay with it, for me it would be a huge mistake, but thats me.
I welcome anybodys thoughts on these issues and do not get offended very easily, so thanks for the apology but it was not warranted, you were only offering your experience as was I mine. My hope is that Jules and her family find the right path for themselves and that will be good enough. Sometimes we go through these things to get to another side of our human experience for a reason. I know I would not want to change a thing about my life and what I did because it made me the kind of person I am proud to be today. Not sure if I could have done that any other way, so I'll take my life and be proud. Peace to you and God Bless!

cleanandserene

Clean i agree. i have been in a very negative way..i feel as thou i am consumed by him and talking to people like you make me feel like their is no hope for him at all..i know you are telling me like it is and others on this board make it sound even worse. i appreciate your thoughts and concerns but i think its best for me not to come on this board any longer..it is making me more negative and depressed. they are teaching me to have hope and faith..pretty much all i hear here is doom and gloom.

I believe you should be going to the Al Anon and Nar Anon meetings I think you mentioned before. These will help you become less co-dependent, and understand that
1) in the end, you cannot change him, BUT
2) you should not enable him either.

These will mean more to you after you have attended at least a dozen or so of these co-dependent anonymous type meetings.

Podee

we are learning and i do get it. we cannot change who he is and we will no longer enable him. we will continue to go to the meetings and he also will continue his part, he goes just about every night. im listening to evertything you guys are saying and i appreciate it all so much..you have to remember that he is only 21, i look at him and see a little boy. he has a whole life to look forward to. In a way that scares me because he is so young, and i see that his memory is so bad. hes had a couple of seizures and i wonder if they could effect his memory or maybe the use of opiates.. if anyone has any info on that i would appreciate it. There is also a question of whether or not hes bipolar. alot of things going on, but we go 1 day at a time and he is doing well! He has tremendous family support and we will continue on together.

Oh wow jules!

Im a mom of a son, and im so sorry to see in the prev. post that YOU feel the way you do, but I can understand why you would. some ppl have a way of making it sound really bad when you are trying to hold on to any straw you can grasp, but yet alot of them are trying to share their story and let you know there is hope.
Please dont leave, and understand that while you also feel there are posts that generate gloom and doom, some of us feel the same way, and you have to pick and choose what you take from here.
I will tell you that if you feel that you arent getting what you need here, then I understand and its your call, but there are so many of us here who really do care and dont need to give tough love, we just like to give encouragement.
Everyone approaches things differently, and when i see posts that just shove the same thing down my throat, I read elsewhere...or posts that theri way is the only way. the point of the boards is to get different ideas, input and compassion, and sometimes ppl forget where they came from when they were starting to get sober or clean. Im not aiming this at anyone particular....but it saddens me when a new person who is here for help gets scared off. Its a sliipery slope that your son is on, vecause hes young, and having an addictive personality and also being a chronic Pain pt is extremely hard for me sometimes. I just can abuse my meds IF i felt like it because I just cant. its certainly been a double edged sword.

I hope youll try to stick around. He is your child and I would and will fight until the death of myself to save mine as well if he ever has any problems as well.
xoxoxoxoxo,
IZZY'SMOM:angel: :angel: :wave: :wave: :wave:

IZZYSMOM, thanks, i will stick around because i do want to hear other opinions. i know people feel very strong about their addictions and they should. I can handle it! I have read ericsma story and it gives me great hope..my son is taking it 1 day at a time. and so far so good! :)

YAY! Im so happy! I just re read add of your thread and I hope this never happens to my boy...hes only 10 and we are tight as fleas. But if he ever endures anything Ill be the same as you. Ill not give up and be beside him all the way.
Please give your son my congrats on all of his days clean!!!! thats amazing!!!!!!

Hang in there ok?
xoxoxoxoxoox,
IZZY'SMOM:angel: :angel:

Regarding his possible mental illness, you cannot get a true diagnosis until he is clean and sober for at least six months. That alone would be reason enough to stop drinking.

Podee, yes you are right. by the way, he hasnt started drinking, so there is no need to stop drinking. My original question was can an opiate addict have a beer or 2 sometimes like at a game or party? After everything i learned the answer should be NO. but, than again hes 21 and its his life..all i can do is hope and pray that he makes the right decisions.:rolleyes:

I agree, it's not always so cut and dry, black and white... we all find our sobriety our own way, a way that works for us, maybe it wouldn't work for everyone, but right now... maybe it's selfish, I'm only worried about me and what works for my family and loved ones.
I've found these boards to be so helpful in a personal way, not only do I find help for myself, but stories like yours help prepare me for what could come with my daughter. She's 12 and I love her more than I can put into words. Maybe I love her too much, is that really possible?... No, not for me. I think you can relate;)
I hope everyone has a fabulous day!

Clean and sober is clean and sober. Drinking a beer or two is drinking.

He should not be taking drugs, in my opinion. As they say in N.A., alcohol is a drug, we cannot afford to be confused about this.

What it seems like to me is you really want to hear someone say that it is okay for your son to drink. I suppose if you keep asking enough people someone will co-sign that for you.

Can we agree to disagree here?... let's not be rude to each other. That's not what we come here for.

hi jules
Your son and your family have gone through a lot of changes, most likely, of lot of change has been supported by the meetings and the step-work involved to keep what you are working towards. You guys sound like you are doing everything possible to have a better life.
And then fear steps in.---when you see him with his buddies he has known since kindergarten, drinking the occassional beer. ---Grab a hold of some faith for yourself and share some of that good stuff with that your son, he already has handfuls of your love and compassion.

Aside from the circles of people sharing their recovery in small rooms, there are outer circles of activites, there are different meetings where the ages of people vary, some meetings have older vetron old-timers, others have younger people, some are still in high-school. And then with the young crowd meetings, they have weekend dances,and they have sport night meetings in selected locations that have TV's and couches and chairs, they also have weekend campouts where there are the young and the older lumped together, at firepits, canoe, hiking etc..I know some recovering addicts who met there, and married later and are still clean today

By the sounds of what your son is doing, going to a lot of meetings but yet having a hard time letting go of his kindergarden friends, he is constantly reminded of the two worlds between addict and non-addict, I hope and pray he finds the choice more appealing with his new friends in the recovery circle. I hope and pray he dosn't step outside of the circle, because when he is in that circle, no harm will come to him.

Perhaps his kindergaten friends might want to support your son and go to some meetings with your son, would that be possible?Maybe the old friends might find the recovery way appealing and attractive and change their ways.

It is a slow process but it is a bondable process when patiently nurtured. Do not fear.

bless you
kadee

No podee you are wrong. I dont want to hear that its ok, all i wanted was opinions. As i said before, this is new to us, neither my husband or i grew up with addicts or were we ever exposed to addicts..im just trying to understand, i am well aware that alcohol is a drug. We are doing the best we can and so is my son.

Kadee, thanks alot for all your help.. He has been going to different meetings sometimes traveling an hour away by train to go. So he is trying. I know he is 21 and he is going to be around his buddies that drink..i can only hope and pray that he makes smart choices. I cant be with him 24/7. He was really hopeing to find a sponsor,but that hasnt happened.he said he doesnt feel the connection with anyone yet. But he also has been telling us about people that are not serious at the meetings, and that annoys him. he takes his recovery very serious..thanks again :)

:) jkm, its not possible to love your child too much..but i know how you feel.:)

hi jules
Yes, your son is very serious with his recovery, that in itself will save him from the people he meets whom are not as devoted as he is, those people show up everywhere and we must guard and protect, ourselves from them, because they can try to take us back out. Your son's seriousness about his recovery and new life choices will weed those other people out. Like WD-40.

His travel times are consuming, and he still carries on and goes forward. Some newcomers grab onto the first person they think will be a good sponsor, other people want to develope trust before they reveal the most private areas of their lives. It sounds to me like your son is looking for the second kind, he probably is screening a lot of them and probably wants to find someone he can identify with, before he reveals his secrets, he probably just wants to make sure the sponsor is discreet, and during all of this,he is opening a process of trust, to trust himself, and to trust the sponsor to be.

His addiction counsellor is a good wild card for him while he goes about in his search of recovery. It dosn't sound like there are a lot of meetings in your area. Am I right? Is that why he travels so far? Or does he travel that far away to get away from people who might know him? When I cleaned up, I went to a recovery house that was 200 miles away from my home even though there were plenty within a 10 mile diameter.

You never know where the sponsor will show up, he may go to a meeting one night, or be sitting on the train, or a bus or standing in line at the grocery store or having a non-alcohic beer at the sports bar, and the projected sponsor (to be) will sit right across from him. Like angel sent. Somethimes when you are not looking and searching so hard they just show up, like his higher power reaches out and gives him a gift. Do you know what I mean?I hope I don't sound too la-la-out-there

He can also get temporary sponsors until the choosen one comes along, someone to help him with the ground work of attendance and guidance and involvement.

Also he can channel out on the internet to AA or NA groups, and find a temporary sponsor on-line,

He is growing and changing, and so are you.
Do not fear
remedy your love with faith
kadee

Kadee, he will see his addiction therapist this wednesday..this is the 1st time and i hope they hit it off. we live in n.y and their are alot of meetings some not in the best neighborhoods tho. of course i worry everytime he goes out, but thats my problem not his right? I keep telling him as long as you stay clean we will do everything in our power to help him..paying doc bills etc..he did go back to work part-time,but thats not going to cut it..

Clean and sober is clean and sober. Drinking a beer or two is drinking.

He should not be taking drugs, in my opinion. As they say in N.A., alcohol is a drug, we cannot afford to be confused about this.

What it seems like to me is you really want to hear someone say that it is okay for your son to drink. I suppose if you keep asking enough people someone will co-sign that for you.



Podee, you have a strong opinion, and thats your right, but you dont need to be rude. Thats not what ppl sign in here for. Its for everyone who is at a different spot, who needs encouragement, and MAYBE some compassion and to compare situations. Now that you are clean and sober and have all of the answers do you have to be catty?
If youd like to write your sucess story here id love to hear it as would a lot of other ppl who have gotten your advice. And I mean that... Seriously...What may have worked for you may not for others. I know when you post and you share that have been sober for so long, I think that if youd share instead of being borderline rude, you may help a lot more ppl, and maybe more ppl would understand where you are coming from when you post. Just my opinion...
IZZY'SMOM

Thanks izzys mom, my mom always taught me if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all.. so when it comes to some people i better just keep my mouth shut. :cool:

jules & izzy'smom, you guys are adorable... I love it! ;) wink

:wave: ;) ;) right back at you...:angel:

That's cool that your son is seeing his first time appointment on "Wednesday because I am seeing my first time therapist on Wenesday as well

Actually, I have been feeling violated from some of the comments on this thread and other threads because of what a certain someone judges regarding meetings. Giving them a bad name, making them look like a thumping book badgering way to recover. I do not attend meetings on a regular basis but I do beleive they saved my life when I first got wind of them. May I remind this certain someone of 3 of the 12 traditions.

Everything is based on attraction not badgering and preaching.

10. Narcotics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence
the NA name ought never be drawn into public controversy.

11. Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than
promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at
the level of press, radio, and films.

12. Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our Traditions,
ever reminding us to place principles before personalities.

kadee

kadee, very well said...

Hi Jules

Just got home about an hour ago and am trying to wind down so I can eventually get to bed here. Thinking I probably chose the wrong avenue to wind down when I chose to read this entire thread. HAHAHAHA.... I have laughed, cried, then laughed my tush off some more.

Personally, I think your son is going to be fine. He is struggling... what kid, "normal" or "not' is not struggling their heads off at 21 years of age???
There is great family support in place and he is doing more than can be even hoped for to work out all his issues. Who can't admire him? I sure do.

And you and hubby... applause to both of you as well. You are learning things you have never thought you would have to learn, and you guys are doing it with style, grace and class. Hats off to the whole family.

Ah! That felt good to write.. I am starting to chill out more and will be off to be shortly. Sweet dreams to all

hugs
reach

Sponsorship

A man in a hot air balloon realized he was lost. He reduced altitude and spotted another man below.

He descended a bit more and shouted,

"Excuse me, can you help me? I promised a friend I would meet him an
hour ago, but I don't know where I am."

The man below replied, "You're in a hot air balloon hovering approximately 30 feet above the ground. You're between 40 and 41 degrees north latitude and between 59 and 60 degrees west longitude."

"You must be a sponsor," said the balloonist.

"I am," replied the man, "how did you know?"

"Well," answered the balloonist, "everything you told me is, technically
correct, but I've no idea what to make of your information, and the
fact is I'm still lost. Frankly, you've not been much help at all. If anything, you've delayed my trip."

The man below responded, "You must be a sponsee."

"I am," replied the balloonist, "but how did you know?"

"Well," said the man, "you don't know where you are or where you're
going. You have risen to where you are due to a large quantity of hot
air. You made a promise, which you've no idea how to keep, and you
expect other people to solve your problems.

The fact is you are in exactly the same position you were in before we
met, but now, somehow, it's my fault."

Kadee, i liked that and will show it to my son..thanks

Wow, that's crazy.... I guess we all need to accept a little help sometimes, huh? Thanks for taking the time to share.
jkm

Hi Jules

Wow, this thread has been a learning experience for the whole darn board. Chuckles. Not only for you, but for all of us as posters. well, certainly for me, anyway. It's too bad we are not allowed to write books from what we learn here... actually, I think a play would be more appropriate.

Anyway, how are you today? I know you have been learning in leaps and bounds and there is so much to absorb in such a short period of time. I share much of what I learn here with my family. Can't wait to share Kadee's story with the recovered people in my family. It sure taught me to remember the importance of humility. It also helped me to let go of some of the anger I have been secretly fostering against a couple of psychiatrists who were trying to help me the best they could and their advice just angered me. I think your son will love the story.

Not sure of how much of the board you are sharing with your son, but hope somehow you can convey to him how many of us are rooting wildly for his success and praying for him, as well as you and hubby, that your continued growing bonds as a family grow and grow and grow.

Take good care of yourself.. as moms, we always have a tendency to put ourselves last on the list. Smiles.

Peace out
reach

Reach, i really dont share this board with him..i need a place to talk about him :dizzy: ..i vent, i learn, i get annoyed but most of all i really learn alot about addiction.Im going to be brutally honest and you guys are going to think im so ignorant, i thought it was easy as just saying NO. i never realized just how serious this disease is. I post all the time on the bipolar board because he might be bp..its taking alot of time to get that diagnosis, if in fact its true. we have been thru alot of doctors that offered no help or the wrong help, supplying him with a drawer full of medications. Anyway, we know that he needs to be clean (56 days) now, before his mental issues can be addressed the right way. He has anger, anxiety and depression.Hes ahad a couple of seizures, which resulted in some memory loss. so there is alot going on with him..We are with him every step of the way as long as he stays honest with us.:)