Hi everyone - I've just found this site and decided to register - in hope of maybe getting some help.

For almost forty years my wife has exhibited intermittent explosive (mostly verbal) outbursts for reasons I have been unable to explain. In the early and middle years of our marriage I always assumed it was because of something I had said, done - or didn't do and that it was my fault. But even though I would try to analyse the cause and effect of these events, I consistently couldn't find anything that I had done to justify such an 'atomic' rover-reaction. She was treated for severe depression in the first year of our relationship, and has continued to be depressed on and off ever since. Very often during her explosive events she talks of ending her life - "my children no longer need me" ... "you hate me" ... "your family hates me" ... "what's the point of living?" ... etc. The explosive events are becoming much more frequent since the death of her mother five years ago, and are so frighteningly intense, vicious, loud, with banging / slamming of doors, appalling foul language, accusations that I am having affairs (utterly untrue) with female colleagues, wives of long-standing friends, and other innocent females who for various normal reasons cross the path of our lives, and threats against me - especially that she will "tell everybody about me and my awful behaviour" etc. I am a big strong man - not normally or easily intimidated by others. But the intensity of these events frightens me, leaving me tense and in great anxiety - often for days - and is now causing me to be persistently depressed. My wife's mood can change in literally a couple of minutes from being quite reasonably 'normal' to the depths of explosive, filthy invective, deep and very hurtful personal insults, and a complete disregard for whether the neighbours may be listening (and the effect it will have on our image and standing). The pounding of doors is an increasingly common feature of life in our neglected, increasingly dirty home. She is not yet a frequent abuser of drugs or alcohol, although I feel she is heading that way. I note that she no longer cries during or after her events (whereas in early years of our marriage she cried frequently, bitterly and often wailingly). In recent events I sensed she was about to physically assault me (limited to jabbing of her fingers / nails into my chest and arms) and today for the first time ever she mentioned that if I didnt change my ways she would kill me. I take this latter threat seriously although it was said without elaboration. The atmosphere in our home is dark, forboding, even frightening. I have no idea what triggers her. I have noticed, though, that she has a repertoire of pet subjects and perceptions - each and every one of which is based on mis-interpretation of a past family event or is simply grossly illogical - from which she seems to draw 'reasons' for her outbursts and severe verbal assaults. Long-standing friends have been driven away and I feel that my wife is 'closing' me down. It is utterly impossible to explain to her that she is quite wrong in her accusations or tyhat her anger is based on mis-perceptions. She'll scream obsenities at me then rush out of the room before I can respond, coming back for a further appalling attack only to repeat this process over and over. I have simply decided not to defend myself now, even though she is inventing new 'affairs' to accuse me of. I just can't muster the energy to oppose her verbally.

It goes on and on.

I love my wife and do not want to lose her.

Does she have bi-polar disorder. What can I do?

Hey Ron,

Welcome to the boards. :) I think you did the right thing to get yourself some support because most of us on here have it or love someone who has BP. I have it, and from what you say, not to that extent but a bit, I do this to my hubby and I hate myself for it. I would say having BP is like being Jekyll and Hyde and sometimes you cant control whenever Hyde decides to pop his mean ugly head out! :blob_fire
I would suggest if you have not already, it may help to read the symptoms stickie. I know the only one who can diagnose your wife is a doctor/psychiatrist. but you may have noticed the symptoms.
as for the crying I relate to that one as well I used to do a lot of it now I don't bother. Why? I have no idea. :confused: Maybe I am not so sad and needing to cry when we fight anymore. :eek: I haven't figured it out myself! It is a royal pain at the very least! If you want to read my specifics, there is a post a little below this one called "I feel lost.. or something ... sick of fighting and being confused" that I started, so it has to do with my recent experience anyway so I will not bother hijacking your thread to tell you about it. :D
But back to you and your wife, I think us BPs for some unknown reason try to look for problems even though we do not mean to, we try to find reasons to be mad at someone, and take it personally if something is said a tiny bit less than praise to us. I could not tell you why. I wish I knew why myself but I am also feeling a bit helpless to stop it.
I am sure some more people will respond to this too, but I hope that answers a little for now.
Is there any chance you can get her to have a psychiatric evaluation? And she may think its you with the problem not her so who knows maybe you could say you both need one! I don't know how to dance around that one!
Good luck!
:wave: Leomia

Hi everyone - I've just found this site and decided to register - in hope of maybe getting some help.

For almost forty years my wife has exhibited intermittent explosive (mostly verbal) outbursts for reasons I have been unable to explain. In the early and middle years of our marriage I always assumed it was because of something I had said, done - or didn't do and that it was my fault. But even though I would try to analyse the cause and effect of these events, I consistently couldn't find anything that I had done to justify such an 'atomic' rover-reaction. She was treated for severe depression in the first year of our relationship, and has continued to be depressed on and off ever since. Very often during her explosive events she talks of ending her life - "my children no longer need me" ... "you hate me" ... "your family hates me" ... "what's the point of living?" ... etc. The explosive events are becoming much more frequent since the death of her mother five years ago, and are so frighteningly intense, vicious, loud, with banging / slamming of doors, appalling foul language, accusations that I am having affairs (utterly untrue) with female colleagues, wives of long-standing friends, and other innocent females who for various normal reasons cross the path of our lives, and threats against me - especially that she will "tell everybody about me and my awful behaviour" etc. I am a big strong man - not normally or easily intimidated by others. But the intensity of these events frightens me, leaving me tense and in great anxiety - often for days - and is now causing me to be persistently depressed. My wife's mood can change in literally a couple of minutes from being quite reasonably 'normal' to the depths of explosive, filthy invective, deep and very hurtful personal insults, and a complete disregard for whether the neighbours may be listening (and the effect it will have on our image and standing). The pounding of doors is an increasingly common feature of life in our neglected, increasingly dirty home. She is not yet a frequent abuser of drugs or alcohol, although I feel she is heading that way. I note that she no longer cries during or after her events (whereas in early years of our marriage she cried frequently, bitterly and often wailingly). In recent events I sensed she was about to physically assault me (limited to jabbing of her fingers / nails into my chest and arms) and today for the first time ever she mentioned that if I didnt change my ways she would kill me. I take this latter threat seriously although it was said without elaboration. The atmosphere in our home is dark, forboding, even frightening. I have no idea what triggers her. I have noticed, though, that she has a repertoire of pet subjects and perceptions - each and every one of which is based on mis-interpretation of a past family event or is simply grossly illogical - from which she seems to draw 'reasons' for her outbursts and severe verbal assaults. Long-standing friends have been driven away and I feel that my wife is 'closing' me down. It is utterly impossible to explain to her that she is quite wrong in her accusations or tyhat her anger is based on mis-perceptions. She'll scream obsenities at me then rush out of the room before I can respond, coming back for a further appalling attack only to repeat this process over and over. I have simply decided not to defend myself now, even though she is inventing new 'affairs' to accuse me of. I just can't muster the energy to oppose her verbally.

It goes on and on.

I love my wife and do not want to lose her.

Does she have bi-polar disorder. What can I do?

It is possible that your wife has bipolar disorder and/or a combination of disorders (i.e. borderline personality d/o). The most important thing to do is to have your wife evaluated by a psychiatrist. Having a brain disorder is no fun for the person experiencing symptoms and for her loved ones. Good luck.

SHE SOUNDS BORDERLINE!!!!

Borderline personality disorder is a very real diagnosis and often times is misdiagnosed as bipolar. Is she willing to admit that her behavior is not normal to any extent? Can you attempt to get her to a doctor?

Thanks for responding. Having read everything I can find on BPD I must admit that she doesnt match all of the symptoms / characteristics typically given. For example, her 'hi-lo' swings range between 'just above normal mood to deep lows' and the signs of manic behaviour are not that pronounced. I have mentioned to her, as delicately as I can, that I feel she needs psychiatric help and that I am willing to participate in this. She doesnt reject my suggestion outright, although past therapy / counselling for depression proved useless. I intend to keep mentioning that she and I should go for help. Thanks again.
Ron.

Thanks Colleen617. Your response and advice are consistent with what Swimmergirl12 said (see my response to her - no need to repeat here). Undoubtedly, as you said, although this is hell for me, it is probably just as awful for my wife. For many years I struggled to find an answer to the question: "Is she just being wicked or cruel - or is she ill?" If I had concluded she was just wicked, I would have ended the marriage a long time ago. But I am certain she is ill - and hence I could not conpemplate separating from her. I will try harderto get her to visit a psychiatrist.
Thanks again.
Ron

Thanks,Leomia. - helpful. Can you - or any other BPD-sufferer who reads this, tell me what is the best way for a spouse or partner to react when a BPD sufferer is having an anger event? From the perspective of a sufferer, what would you prefer your spouse / partner to do / say when you are at the depths of anger? Should we fight back - or should we (as I increasingly tend to do) just remain silent, non-provocative, passive, and just 'weather the storm'? I have read elsewhere on this board that BPD sufferers CAN exercise some control over these events (i.e. can be selective with whom they choose to be angry, and where/when). In my wife's case, this seems to be true, for she does not have an event with anyone else, just me. She values her friends - indeed positively needs them, and she is rather fearful of tangling with our adult children. During an event she can change mood in an instant if the phone rings and one of her friends is on the line. I have been shocked to hear her many times change from being almost a monster to a twittering angel in seconds. Therefore is it wise for me to remain passive and not fight back? Would fighting back be helpful to her in some way? Any tips on this would be a real help.
Thanks.
Ron

Hi Ron,
My husband has bipolar disorder, and luckily he has learned/is learning over the last 2 years to control how he expresses his mood swings for the most part. When he feels rage and aggression he makes a serious effort not to take it out (verbally) on me...but best laid plans...

I've found that arguing back, even when I am in the right and have a good point to make, only exaccerbates the situation.

HOWEVER, my husband has never threatened me with physical harm. I read in your post that your wife threatened to kill you. I know you love her, and the best thing you can do for her is get her help now! Homicidal and suicidal ideas are often a sign of what pdocs like to call "urgent situations" and what suffers of disorders like to call Hell. Get her help, now, even if that means having her committed against her will. Believe me, in her clear moments she will be greatful that you got her to a doctor before she hurt you or herself.

I know it would kill my husband if he ever hurt me during a manic episode.

Anyay, that's my advice and I obviously feel strongly about it, but it's your life and your wife. Do what you believe is best.

Be well,
Artemis

Hello Ron,

Welcome to the board.
For whatever reason, individuals with BP or personality disorders seem to take it out on the one person they love most. I think it is because it is the person s/he feels safest with. Someone said on another thread that when she gets like this, she really needs "space" and that having her husband express concern just makes her get more and more abusive. I'm hoping someone who has BP will chime in here with his/her experiences.

If she is in denial about doing this, you might try turning on a small recorder while she is having one of her outbursts...and recording it to play back at a future time when she is calm...and in a mood where she is thinking about the possibility of undertaking counseling or seeing a psychiatrist.

I commend you for trying to hang in there. I hope your wife will be willing to get help soon.

:wave: Tsohl

Thanks Tsohl. I don't know if she is in denial or not - she has a high I.Q. and I do think she suspects she has a problem. The 'get even' side of me likes the idea of the tape recorder (I'm human, feel very wronged by all of this and often just want to return the hurt), but I don't think I would do that. You see, it's not a question of her not realising that she is creating hell on earth - she knows she is doing so. What makes it difficult - if not impossible - to counter her explosions is that there is always a theme, a central reason, in each case. My wife seems to select someone to detest from among either friends, my work associates, or it can (and has been) any female who is in any way connected with me through work. It's no use protesting my innocence - however compellingly, and in any case my wife builds up a case that is pure imagination, illogical even, so that she can extract maximum value from it as a source of anger. There is no possible way I can defend myself, so I simply remain quiet, avoid making eye-contact with her, go to another room and just hope the storm will disipate without one of the neighbours calling to protest at the noise / profanity, etc. I become fatigued, highly anxious, exhausted and can't sleep after this. The result is a non-speaking, very tense, sullen atmosphere that lasts for days afterwards as hurt feelings (mine usually) gradually heal. During this 'recovery' period, she will mount several further attacks, until she has expended all of the venom. I think she knows that one way to get my attention is to hint strongly that she is about to take an overdose. I never quite know how to take this, and so I normally break my silence and stay close to her - frightening though this is, even for a big man. She has learned over many years that this is one way to exert some form of control over me during these explosive events.
Thanks again.
Ron

Hi Artemis.
Thanks for taking time to respond. You said a few things I find interesting. Firstly, I am encouraged to learn that your husband has learned how to control his mood swings (for the most part). Having regularly withstood the ferocity of a BPD event at first hand I can only say that is marvellous. He deserves a truckload of praise for that. I hope (and yes I pray too) that the process I have started by coming onto this Board will lead to a similar outcome in our case.

Secondly, I seem to have learned the same lesson as you - that arguing back only exacerbates the situation. In my case it's as if my wife wants me to argue back in order to fuel the fire and give the storm a greater intensity so she can draw more from it. Forty years of regular batterings have enabled me to identify a number of common factors - the first being that the BPer doesn't need a reason (or what would pass for a reason in my book) - she will just make one. Secondly I have come to the conclusion that the explosions represent a 'NEED' and are not simply random mental storms. Whenever we have a peaceful period of [say] ten days or so, I detect 'feelers' from my wife just looking for conflict. I am learning to identify these and to ignore them. No amount of patronisation or cajoling seems to change her mood, hence it's best to walk away without any reaction. But it's like living in a minefield. What a life.

Also you mention getting her urgent help, even if it means committing her, etc. The one consistent piece of advice in the responses to my first post is, as you have said, to get her to a psychiatrist - and by hook or by crook, I'll do that. But I couldn't have her committed - that would be a bridge too far for now. She's been threatening or hinting of suicide since the day we were married in 1967, and has never actually attempted it. Nevertheless, it worries me. Her threat to kill me two days ago was said in such a way that although I am troubled by it, was said conditionally, and therefore not an immediate threat.

Thanks again Artemis - I value your advice and comments.

Ron

FYI--there is a paperback that was put out in 1989 called "I Hate You-don't leave me--Understanding The Borderline Personality. It is by Jerold Kreisman MD., & Hal Straus. In it you will find a chapter on Communicating with the Borderline. "Developed by the staff of the Comprehensive Treatment Unit of Saint John's Medical Center in St. Louis, the SET system evolved as a structured framework of communication with the borderline in crisis. During such times, communication with the borderline is hindered by his impenetrable, chaotic internal force field, characterized by three major feeling states: terrifying aloneness, feelings of being misunderstood, & overwhelming helplessness. SET stands for S-support, E-empathy, & T-truth." The book goes into detail about how to use each part of the system, and then also shows examples of "some typical borderline predicaments in which the SET strategy may be used. The first example they used was called Damned If You Do and Damned If You Don't. Borderline confusion often results in contradictory messages to others. Frequently, the borderline will communicate one position with words, but express a contradictory message with behavior. ALthough the borderline may not be consciously aware of this dilemma, he frequently places a friend or relation in a no-win situation in which the other person is condemned no matter which way he goes. Then the book goes on to give a detailed example. Just thought I would share this info, as it sounds like just what you are looking for. Best wishes to you!

Hi Ron,

Wow, you are a saint to put up with this behavior. I am far from an expert, but she doesn't sounds like she has bipolar to me. Usually when in a manic or hypomanic episode the individual with bipolar (who is unmedicated) can really rage against the one s/he loves most, but afterwards, they may not even remember doing it. What you are describing just doesn't sounds like BP to me.

I know there are many similarities between BP and BDP and sometimes both disorders can be present. I hope you can convince her to visit a qualified psychiatrist for a thorough evaluation. It would be a shame to continue living your life this way when help is available.

take care,
Tsohl

Ron tell her that getting treated for depression wont work if its BP - that is what happened to me, and since it wasnt just plain depression they were going at it from the wrong angle. :)

Good luck
Leomia

Thanks,Leomia. - helpful. Should we fight back - or should we (as I increasingly tend to do) just remain silent, non-provocative, passive, and just 'weather the storm'?

I think dont FIGHT but explain nicely, later in a way they know you love them how it makes you feel.

I have read elsewhere on this board that BPD sufferers CAN exercise some control over these events (i.e. can be selective with whom they choose to be angry, and where/when).

Yes we can ...

I have been shocked to hear her many times change from being almost a monster to a twittering angel in seconds.
Therefore is it wise for me to remain passive and not fight back? Would fighting back be helpful to her in some way?
Ron

~Ron, please STICK UP for yourself but in a NICE way as many BPS get so so so offended!
Good luck to ya!
:wave: Leomia

Thanks again Leomia - your comments are helpful. I'd sure like to get a debate going on this question of "should a loved one fight back (and how) when under verbal assault from a BPer or BPDer." Your advice is not to FIGHT as such but explain nicely, etc. I find this to be impossible. I don't know, of course, whether or not my wife has Bipolar Disorder - I have yet to succeed in getting her to see a pdoc. But whatever it is she is suffering from, she sure has one heck of a good defensive system to ward off any attempts by me to explain my side of the story. First of all she throws up a storm of sheer noise (shouting, screaming, banging things, slamming doors, etc), then when she has reached the end of a particular outburst she leaves the room for a while, works up another head of steam and comes back to repeat the process all over. This goes on sometimes for more than an hour and can last most of the night. By these tactics (noise and retreat) she absolutely rules out any prospect for a calm discussion. Impossible. Then, in the aftermath, it seems to me, that the fragile peace is so important that I for one would not dare to raise the subject of her recent explosion for fear of provoking another one. So, as you can see, she has a perfect defense system and one that is uniquely able to sustain the 'illness' by ruling out any appeal by me to common sense in the calm aftermath.

Anyway, I raise all of this here so as to spark a debate by both sets of sufferers - those with Bipolar Disorder (and Borderline PD) and those of us who suffer the consequences, so as to try to identify / understand the best methods of dealing with it. What do other people suffering the consequences of loving and living with a BPer find effective as a means of dealing with the events?
Thanks again
Ron

Hello again Tsohl.

Until I can get her to a psychiatrist I have no way of knowing what exactly underlies my wife's condition. In the early-to-mid years of our marriage I frequently pondered the question "is she ill or is she just wicked?" and I was never quite sure of the answer. However with the accumulating wisdom that comes with age I have concluded that she is ill, and it is this conclusion, I realise, which has enabled me to continue to love her and stand by her these many years. So, if your view that perhaps she is not suffering from Bipolar Disorder (or some such) turns out to be accurate, then, despite the fact that this would be good news (at least for her) it is 'back to the drawing board' for me in trying to answer the above question as to causation. There still is that nagging suspicion that there just may be a touch of wickedness lurking around in all of this. It is a bitter irony, isn't it, that in one way I hope she is ill !

Anyway, as I said to Leomia in my reply to her, I would like to spark a debate by both BPers (and BPD's) and those who live with them on what is the best strategy for dealing with the episodes. What does a BPer (BPDer) actually want from us during an episode? What is the best, most effective strategy to be used by a a non-BP / BPD spouse / partner during an episode?
Ron.

Hi KIDD123 - thanks for making the effort to reply.

I've checked out our local library for published works on Bipolar Disorder and BPD, found several, and found them indigestible. You will see from my replies (of today) to Tsohl and Leomia, that I would prefer to spark a debate by those who have either of these disorders, and their loved ones, on what we loved ones should do during an episode. I'm starting to find the best strategy is to fight back at first (but not to say anything that could cause lasting damage) and then just go into 'shutdown' mode and weather the storm. Then a period of several days of silence (by both of us), which invariably leads to 'feelers' seeking a return to 'normality'. But the 'normal' periods are getting shorter and shorter and my ability to withstand the episodes is getting weaker and weaker. I'm likely to become a nervous wreck.
Anyway, thanks again for the book suggestion.
Ron

Ron, as I am starting to wonder if it is not BP it very well may be BPD or something else we are not doctors, so I really hope you can get her to one.
:angel:
But I will try to address some concerns you have said.

"Your advice is not to FIGHT as such but explain nicely, etc. I find this to be impossible. " I know it is I know I know, I only said so because I do not think since you have stayed this long that you want the marriage to end right? Of course if she wont admit anything ever then you have a huge situation and I feel very bad for you, and sympathize. Is there a way to be nice about sticking up for yourself?:dizzy:

"she throws up a storm of sheer noise (shouting, screaming, banging things, slamming doors, etc), then when she has reached the end of a particular outburst she leaves the room for a while, works up another head of steam and comes back to repeat the process all over." Wow, once the first time is done for me, I am exhausted. I just want my hubby to follow me and try to fix it and say sorry if it is my fault even. so yes that part is evil and we all have a bit of Mr Hyde, but we have to tie him up and beat him up (so to speak!):mad:

So, as you can see, she has a perfect defense system and one that is uniquely able to sustain the 'illness' by ruling out any appeal by me to common sense in the calm aftermath.

wow I see the predicament. Is there not a way you can write a letter for her to have reading on a good spell? do you guys have any good days? I hope you do but the way you explain it makes me wonder. I hope that did not sound bad. it is not intened that way!

Anyway, I raise all of this here so as to spark a debate by both sets of sufferers - those with Bipolar Disorder (and Borderline PD) and those of us who suffer the consequences, so as to try to identify / understand the best methods of dealing with it. What do other people suffering the consequences of loving and living with a BPer find effective as a means of dealing with the events?

I hate when my husband says 'have you taken the meds today?" right now they barely work. Of course there are no meds for her to take but any thing that might seem condescending is bad and we take it so personally and offend too easily and everything is about us. Sorry I am not bad just drawn that way! And I think My hubby would relate to you to a lot of an extent but then again he is not perfect and when I have my issues he retaliates in a mostly bad way. But who can be prepared for our crazy moods that change with the wind? I think it is very commendable for you to even be here and stil loving her because I know people like us are hard to love but we need a lot of it, maybe more than you normal people have? I am not sure. SO that is my 2 ¢ for now....!

Good luck to you and I hope you will be able to drag her to a doc. or the A&E if you need to. Can you lay down any rules nicely?
:angel: :wave:
Leomia