I was talking to a mate of mine today and he had just seen his chiropactor, as he had hurt his back. Weel he said well how long before I need to have fusion. His chiro replied they don't do them any more as they cost too much and the success rate is lower than 22%.
I understand that but if it is true this really does suck as I know that the nest 2 levels on my back are slowly getting worst. So what would people like me do.
By the way this is in Australia and I think that this could be a half truth. As my friend seem to like to big note himself with different things. But he could be right I hope not. As quarterzone injections to the area don't work very good.
If he is right I will be writting to or government and demand that they state the rules. As there will always be people who need the operations no matter even if they fail to help more than 22% of who get them done. :wave:

I think that is a half truth. They do over 250,000 fusions in the U.S. alone. They do try to use them as a last resort, but I haven't seen any surgeon's office with a lack of patients. I had a double level fusion in 2005. I believe that the success rate is lower than they say, but then again I don't see all the success stories either. My surgery is considered a "Failed back surgery" in that it did not end the pain. The half truth then to me is that only 22% are successful. He got this information from his Chiropractor?

HI TATTMAN

I was reading on the internet that they have been testing a new gel which hardens when injected into the back which might well replace having a fusion done!

I wish for the life of me i could remember where i saw it!!!

The attitudes toward fusion surgery is different depending on your country of residence. The U.S.A. does a large amount of back surgery. Is that simply because there are more surgeons and the American Medical System is profit motivated? When you have a lot of surgeons you are going to have a lot more surgery. There are a lot of variables. American societal attitudes towards medicine in general probably does have it's role to play.

European attitudes towards surgery are much more conservative by American Standards. Perhaps Australian rates of spinal surgery are much lower. I don't know without researching the subject. I do know that European rates for all surgeries are much lower.

Ask anyone on this board if they are sorry they had surgery. I have never seen anyone post that they were sorry they had surgery no matter how terrrible the outcome. Afterall who would want to admit that their surgery was a mistake or that they had any choice at all. Most lumbar surgery is not an emergency as cauda equina but pretty much the run of the mill herniated discs, ddd and stenosis so yes choice does play a role. Obviously pain takes a lot of the real choice of making good decisions when the carrot of pain relief is offered up as a possibility.

Well I am just blathering on and I don't want to offend anyone. Just putting out there some ideas as to why American Surgery rates are so high in comparison with the rest of the western world.

Hugs,

I've had two fusions. The one on my cervical spine worked great...The one on my lumbar spine had no effect on my pain. would I do it over again, YES.
I do agree fusion is the last resort. We tried many other things before the surgery. PT, epidurals etc. None of which worked. Your Chiro is mistaken on the success rate of a fusion. 97% of people get some relief from pain.

The decision to get a fusion is up to you. Talk with your doctor. Tell him your concerns. If he doesn't listen or refuses to discuss them, run don't walk and find another surgeon.

I think what Chris has said is more right as I don't trust chiro's. I have seen them before and found that there are full of sh#t, well that is when it came to me that is. But like I said this is coming from a fella that thinks he know everything that is going on it the world. So with them two there's the half truth. I will be asking my local GP next time I see him.
Sherry I saw a program where they used the gel with the same results. The only thing I can think of if the did stop fusions would be placing in a stimulator or one of those pumps that release small amounts of painkiller directly to your spine, thus stopping the pain.
Pooby what you have said does make sence. I don't know what the standards are for each country or how they rate their success rates either. It really doesn't matter. But I have actually read some post where people have regretted having their fusions done. I don't even if I'm still in pain. But I just get on with life as best as I can.
Well I better got off now as I have rambled on a fair bite now so all the best from the Tattman. :wave:

I asked my doctor before my surgery what the failure rate is. He said 3-5%, but that my risk was higher. And I fused really quickly! I think your chiro friend is trying to dissuade those who would leave him for surgery. A little profit motivation, perhaps? :)

:wave: Emily

My doc gave the same number as BlueAtlas as far as non fusion rate - 5% per level. so my chance of failure with a double was higher. however as far as pain relief (assuming fusion takes) he told me 60% chance of being better, 30% no change or different pain and 10% worse. I made the 60%

I wouldnt trust most chiros, most all of them arent doctors.

Chiro's aren't even doctors so beware. If there are real spine issues and not minor aches etc I would only let a real doctor who specializes in spines touch it. you don't want to screw up an already problem area, this is a spinal cord you need it.

Spine fusions are the tried and tested gold standard TO DATE. While other surgery techniques are available for disc replacement, and new ones continue on the horizon.. fusions continue to rise as the top used because they know it's outcomes of success, where the others are still so new and they have not been done long enough to know the longevity of such surgeries.

As to whether Australia is curtailing doing fusions I can not say, but I highly doubt it.

I think if you do your checking you will confirm your friend is full of what you said.

Yes, there are some out there that regret having had surgery and/or fusion done. But they are an extremely low percentage. Majority have great success and are out living their lives rather than being on here to tell their tale of success. Even though I am not pain free, I still consider my surgery a complete success as do my surgeons. I have NO REGRETS at all in having it done. I am getting my life back. It will never be back to what it was, but I will settle for close enough!

I do hope you get the relief you seek. Tammy:wave:

I don't know about the rate of success on fusion's . I'm not glad I needed a fusion but glad I got one.

I really want more info on this gel stuff ..Info please ( Sherri)

shawley,

one variant (might be others) is called NuCore injectable nucleus. its a 30 minute outpatient procedure involving a centimeter incision and a needle. it tunes into a spongy material that mimics the original disc core - sorta like fix-a-flat for discs.. its still experimental and not FDA approved. I dont think its viable for herniations, just DDD. maybe in conjunction with other procedures it could be used with herniations.

I have no idea of its success rate.

ZeroMan,
That sound interesting . Fix a flat for disc ..I would like to see the results to. How do you get involved in these experimental trials ? Some times I would try anything for pain.

Im not sure if trials are still open but the site seems to indicate they are. its made by Spine Wave, inc. Im not sure if I can post the actual link but its basically the company name.

definitely looks interesting.

Thanks zeroman, I'm going to look some info up on it.

Shawley :wave:

Found the website and a phone # but CT. is to far from me ,besides they probably can't do anything for me .
Check it out ,there is plenty of new stuff comming out.Thanks zeroman, I'm going to look some info up on it.

Shawley :wave:

Sorry Shawley but this site does not allow you to post links or info off other sites unless you rearrange the wording into your own words.


I would often like to post info that I have but realize that I am unable to because of the rules of posting on here.

From what everyone is saying I tend to agree with them. My mate is so full of it that he would need a couple of trucks to that the big loads of sh#t that is coming from his mouth.
I have has 3 operations on my back and still have pain. But to me that's life and I wouldn't swap it, apart fromit never happening of course.
My back is on it way out again and it looks to me at this moment I will need the next 2 levels fused. But I have to travel to get it done and save enough money so my wife can be with me to.
So if they stop them, which I really hope they don't and my mate is made to look the fool, I will be happy.
We are heading into our winter and I can feel the effects of the cold already. But believe me it does not get close to as cold as it does where it snows, so I have got it good there.
Well all the best to everyone from the Tattman. :wave:

New this board, just read your post and saw you had a "double fusion". How did that work for you? Still in pain, what was your history and where did you have surgery, if I might ask?

Hi ,
Yes I'm fully aware of that , that is why I didnt post anything. Have a great day Pooby :wave:
Shawley Sorry Shawley but this site does not allow you to post links or info off other sites unless you rearrange the wording into your own words.


I would often like to post info that I have but realize that I am unable to because of the rules of posting on here.

My surgeon gave me the same 60-30-10 #'s 60 being that it would help at least 60% improvement 30% little or no improvement and 10% worse. So far only 6 months out but I seem to be in 10% catagory and feel very resentful about it. I think the surgeon probably makes a difference in the outcome. If I had to answer right now Yes I regret it as I am much worse and NO definatly would not do it again, at least not with current surgeon. Good Luck and God Speed to you.