Mike In NY
05-16-2007, 10:17 AM
The study was released this morning. It didn't mention who funded the project involving over 10,000 men over a period of years. Several messages were posted and most were very suspicious. I've been taking supplements daily for about 30 years and I have never had a health issue. I plan to reduce the amount of supplements but not out of fear. I'm taking too many. I plan to focus more on a healthy diet which includes each day oat meal with almond milk, flax seeds, wheat germ, bee pollen, garlic, pomegrante juice, fruits, vegetables, walnuts, krill oil, brown rice and carrot juicing. I'll continue taking ALIVE but less than the recommended amount and CQ10, Milk Thistle, Selenium, Alpha Lipoc Acid, Probiotc, & SAMe but again less than the recommended dosage. Occasionally, I may even skip a day and not take any supplements.
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FromSqueaky
05-16-2007, 12:27 PM
You don't say what the study was about.
Take the vitamins that need to be taken together in order for them to work at all. I take the fiber ones and the inositol with my last meal so they can work over night.
Take the vitamins that need to be taken together in order for them to work at all. I take the fiber ones and the inositol with my last meal so they can work over night.
flowergirl2day
05-16-2007, 05:27 PM
Interesting. :bouncing:
I'll try to get more info on this study. It might even be mentioned on TV or some of the health-oriented websites (MSN). I remember reading something similar about prostate cancer while looking up info on meds interactions. I think it was a warning regarding a specific supplement potentially resulting in this condition if too much is taken over a long period of time. (overused). This is why they put recommended daily amounts on the labels. Even that is not foolproof/more studies need to be done. :eek:
Mike, you take a fair amount of supplements. If you were to cut down on them, how would you decide which ones to stop taking? I'd have a terrible time making that decision! (I don't take as many). They are all supposed to be good for us. We might need some more than others, depending on our individual needs.
Flowergirl :)
I'll try to get more info on this study. It might even be mentioned on TV or some of the health-oriented websites (MSN). I remember reading something similar about prostate cancer while looking up info on meds interactions. I think it was a warning regarding a specific supplement potentially resulting in this condition if too much is taken over a long period of time. (overused). This is why they put recommended daily amounts on the labels. Even that is not foolproof/more studies need to be done. :eek:
Mike, you take a fair amount of supplements. If you were to cut down on them, how would you decide which ones to stop taking? I'd have a terrible time making that decision! (I don't take as many). They are all supposed to be good for us. We might need some more than others, depending on our individual needs.
Flowergirl :)
Hardy09
05-16-2007, 06:13 PM
The study was released this morning. It didn't mention who funded the project involving over 10,000 men over a period of years. Several messages were posted and most were very suspicious. I've been taking supplements daily for about 30 years and I have never had a health issue. I plan to reduce the amount of supplements but not out of fear. I'm taking too many. I plan to focus more on a healthy diet which includes each day oat meal with almond milk, flax seeds, wheat germ, bee pollen, garlic, pomegrante juice, fruits, vegetables, walnuts, krill oil, brown rice and carrot juicing. I'll continue taking ALIVE but less than the recommended amount and CQ10, Milk Thistle, Selenium, Alpha Lipoc Acid, Probiotc, & SAMe but again less than the recommended dosage. Occasionally, I may even skip a day and not take any supplements.
Hi Mike,
A couple of points. The study showed NO link between taking multi-vitamins and GETTING prostate cancer. What it showed was a link between taking too much, that is MORE than the one-a-day recommended dosage for multi-vitamins, when you already have prostate cancer, and the cancer becoming more deadly (associated with a raised risk of dying from the disease). This was particularly true of men with a family history of prostate cancer. The authors found no increase in the risk of early prostate tumors among heavy vitamin users. They also found no heightened risk among men who took only one multivitamin a day. If doctors followed 10,000 men for 10 years, there would be about 30 extra cases of advanced prostate cancer and 7 or 8 extra cases of fatal prostate cancer associated with heavy multivitamin use. But the study was not designed to prove that vitamins affect cancer risk. To prove that, scientists would have to randomly assign half of patients to take supplements and half of them to follow some other regimen.
This newest study involves men who voluntarily took vitamins, and those most at risk _ perhaps because they had a family history of the disease _ may have been more likely to take the pills. That I think is the problem, as the most at risk would be the most likely to get advanced cancer that kills. Thus the study only shows an association, not a cause and effect result.
Consider, for example, that older people have a higher rate of mortality than younger people. Older people also take more supplements than younger people. Note also, sick people have a higher mortality rate than healthy people, and sick people also have a higher rate of taking supplements. In neither case can we say that supplements CAUSE the higher mortality rates.
What really interested me was that taking Selenium with multi-vitamins was associated with increased risk of dying from the disease.
The Nutritional Prevention of Cancer Trial, published in 1996, included 1,312 men and women who had skin cancer. Men who took selenium to prevent nonmelanoma skin cancer received no benefit from selenium in preventing skin cancer. However, men who had taken selenium for 6½ years had approximately 60 percent fewer new cases of prostate cancer than men who took the placebo. In 2002, study data showed that men who took selenium for more than 7½ years had about 52 percent fewer new cases of prostate cancer than men who took the placebo.
In a 1998 study of 29,133 male smokers in Finland, men who took vitamin E to prevent lung cancer had 32 percent fewer new cases of prostate cancer than men who took the placebo.
SELECT stands for the Selenium and Vitamin E Cancer Prevention Trial, an on-going clinical trial to see if one or both of these dietary supplements prevent prostate cancer. I understand that a study (don't know if it is the SELECT one), will report next month on the use of selenium and vitamin E to prevent prostate cancer.
I decided years ago that if I was going to take individual supplements I would not also take multi-vitamins. I take many individual supplements, but not a multi-vitamin. As I have a family history of prostate cancer, and a high-PSA count, I take Selenium and Vitamin E, for example.
Hi Mike,
A couple of points. The study showed NO link between taking multi-vitamins and GETTING prostate cancer. What it showed was a link between taking too much, that is MORE than the one-a-day recommended dosage for multi-vitamins, when you already have prostate cancer, and the cancer becoming more deadly (associated with a raised risk of dying from the disease). This was particularly true of men with a family history of prostate cancer. The authors found no increase in the risk of early prostate tumors among heavy vitamin users. They also found no heightened risk among men who took only one multivitamin a day. If doctors followed 10,000 men for 10 years, there would be about 30 extra cases of advanced prostate cancer and 7 or 8 extra cases of fatal prostate cancer associated with heavy multivitamin use. But the study was not designed to prove that vitamins affect cancer risk. To prove that, scientists would have to randomly assign half of patients to take supplements and half of them to follow some other regimen.
This newest study involves men who voluntarily took vitamins, and those most at risk _ perhaps because they had a family history of the disease _ may have been more likely to take the pills. That I think is the problem, as the most at risk would be the most likely to get advanced cancer that kills. Thus the study only shows an association, not a cause and effect result.
Consider, for example, that older people have a higher rate of mortality than younger people. Older people also take more supplements than younger people. Note also, sick people have a higher mortality rate than healthy people, and sick people also have a higher rate of taking supplements. In neither case can we say that supplements CAUSE the higher mortality rates.
What really interested me was that taking Selenium with multi-vitamins was associated with increased risk of dying from the disease.
The Nutritional Prevention of Cancer Trial, published in 1996, included 1,312 men and women who had skin cancer. Men who took selenium to prevent nonmelanoma skin cancer received no benefit from selenium in preventing skin cancer. However, men who had taken selenium for 6½ years had approximately 60 percent fewer new cases of prostate cancer than men who took the placebo. In 2002, study data showed that men who took selenium for more than 7½ years had about 52 percent fewer new cases of prostate cancer than men who took the placebo.
In a 1998 study of 29,133 male smokers in Finland, men who took vitamin E to prevent lung cancer had 32 percent fewer new cases of prostate cancer than men who took the placebo.
SELECT stands for the Selenium and Vitamin E Cancer Prevention Trial, an on-going clinical trial to see if one or both of these dietary supplements prevent prostate cancer. I understand that a study (don't know if it is the SELECT one), will report next month on the use of selenium and vitamin E to prevent prostate cancer.
I decided years ago that if I was going to take individual supplements I would not also take multi-vitamins. I take many individual supplements, but not a multi-vitamin. As I have a family history of prostate cancer, and a high-PSA count, I take Selenium and Vitamin E, for example.
Mike In NY
05-16-2007, 06:13 PM
I take ALIVE both powder and capsules (when traveling). I would take 1/2 the recommended amount. I'll still be taking everything that I've been taking but less. Less because of a newly improved healthy diet especially breakfast which is oatmeal mixed with ground flax seeds, wheat germ, bee pollen, walnuts, blueberries & almond milk. Prior to this fresh made carrot/apple juice. I recently began taking Kagome 100% juice (health store) which is 3 fruits & 9 veggie's. I drink one serving a day (8oz). I was once told by a health store owner that it was OK on occasion to skip a few days and not take any supplements. The items that I won't skip or take less of is a powerful Probiotic and Krill Oil. Interesting but ALIVE has capsules where you take 3 a day or 6 a day and you receive the exact amount of ingredients and mg's. I image they did this for those who want to take half and you can't take half of three capsules but you can take half of 6 capsules. I imagine the study that's out today is going to under heavy attack and you will be reading about it.
Mike In NY
05-16-2007, 06:21 PM
Hardy, many thanks for your very informative and interesting message. What I read this morning was very brief just a few paragraphs. I now see the whole picture thanks to you. I was especially interested in your comments regarding Selenium which I've been taking daily for many years but too much of it (200 mg). I'm now taking the recommended dosage which I read about on Healthboards. Your coments about not taking a multi vitamin along with individual supplements is interesting. Thanks for posting and Good Health.
Hardy09
05-16-2007, 06:32 PM
I take ALIVE both powder and capsules (when traveling). I would take 1/2 the recommended amount. I'll still be taking everything that I've been taking but less. Less because of a newly improved healthy diet especially breakfast which is oatmeal mixed with ground flax seeds, wheat germ, bee pollen, walnuts, blueberries & almond milk. Prior to this fresh made carrot/apple juice. I recently began taking Kagome 100% juice (health store) which is 3 fruits & 9 veggie's. I drink one serving a day (8oz). I was once told by a health store owner that it was OK on occasion to skip a few days and not take any supplements. The items that I won't skip or take less of is a powerful Probiotic and Krill Oil. Interesting but ALIVE has capsules where you take 3 a day or 6 a day and you receive the exact amount of ingredients and mg's. I image they did this for those who want to take half and you can't take half of three capsules but you can take half of 6 capsules. I imagine the study that's out today is going to under heavy attack and you will be reading about it.
Yes, their finding about selenium makes me suspicious of this study, as the 2002 study showed that men who took selenium for more than 7½ years had about 52 percent fewer cases of prostate cancer.
Yes, their finding about selenium makes me suspicious of this study, as the 2002 study showed that men who took selenium for more than 7½ years had about 52 percent fewer cases of prostate cancer.
Hardy09
05-16-2007, 06:34 PM
Hardy, many thanks for your very informative and interesting message. What I read this morning was very brief just a few paragraphs. I now see the whole picture thanks to you. I was especially interested in your comments regarding Selenium which I've been taking daily for many years but too much of it (200 mg). I'm now taking the recommended dosage which I read about on Healthboards. Your coments about not taking a multi vitamin along with individual supplements is interesting. Thanks for posting and Good Health.
Thanks! I'm taking 200 mcg, is that what you are taking now?
Thanks! I'm taking 200 mcg, is that what you are taking now?
Mike In NY
05-16-2007, 09:31 PM
I eat foods that contain selenium so I now limit daily selenium supplement to 100 mcg. The absolute maximum is 400mcg. High levels of selenium will cause gastrointestinal upsets, hair loss, fatigue, irritability and mild nerve damage. If your taking 200mcg supplement a day plus eat foods high in selenium this is not good. This is why I've reduced daily supplement from 200mcg to 100mcg. I don't believe Selenium Supplements are available below 100mcg. The absolute highest levels of selenium is in Brazil Nuts which I don't eat. It's also high (but not nearly as high as Brazil nuts) in tuna & beef which I do eat. I've read so very many positive articles over the years about selenium that I take it very seriously. When you consider how dirt cheap it is why not take it. We're talking about 3 - 4 cents a day.
Hardy09
05-16-2007, 09:32 PM
Forgot to mention that the study's research results are at odds with a nested study published recently in The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition that reported that an increased selenium intake in combination with a daily multivitamin may reduce the risk of prostate cancer by about 40 per cent.
Harry
05-17-2007, 02:12 AM
I have found over the years -- there are many studies conducted that are later found not true! Especially about vitamins, minerals and supplements.
I question this study also.
Harry
I question this study also.
Harry
Hardy09
05-18-2007, 01:43 PM
I have found over the years -- there are many studies conducted that are later found not true! Especially about vitamins, minerals and supplements.
I question this study also.
Harry
Of course the whole vitamin-supplement craze started in the early 90s partly as a recent of the huge Nurses Study that had followed nurses for decades and found that nurses who took vitamin supplements lived on AVERAGE six years longer than nurses who didn't.
I question this study also.
Harry
Of course the whole vitamin-supplement craze started in the early 90s partly as a recent of the huge Nurses Study that had followed nurses for decades and found that nurses who took vitamin supplements lived on AVERAGE six years longer than nurses who didn't.