i was wondering how you knew if you had bppv

ive never had a spinning episode but i do feel off balance when in certain positions and when doing sports and stuff.
my doc did a test where he layed me down on one of those tables that have your head tilted back alittle and has you face one side and tilt your head back and it looks for eye movements and then he does the other side. he found that my left eye moved meaning it was coming from my right ear. but he never mentioned bppv and he sent me home with regular vrt and said it was an infection. now was the test that he did for bppv?? and if so home come he didn't say anything?

also does bppv go away on its own after a period of time without treatment? ive had this problem now about 20 months.

i had an eng and it showed a slight deficit in my right inner ear. would you have a weakness in your ear if you had bppv?

i just looked up a MEP in the sticky and i tried doing it. when i would do the ones leaning on my left ear i felt fine. when i did the ones with the right ear i felt like the bed was moving and my symptoms got worse. im wondering now if ive had bppv this whole time and have been doing the wrong vrt.

all my tests were normal except for the dix hillpike which showed eye jerking coming from my right inner ear so the left eye.

would it make scence that when im doing the MEP with my right ear down that it would make me feel off?

......"would it make scence that when im doing the MEP with my right ear down that it would make me feel off?".......

Yep---.

U usually(in addition to the D/H test)can tell----because their is a latency and fatiguing associated with the ear that has the rocks.

Read the sticky BPPV paper on "latency and fatiguing"......

Also it would not be unusual to develop BPPV during/with/after---another Inner Ear prob,i.e., Lab's/VN etc...---since they weaken the structure of the Inner Ear---allowing the rocks to roll out.....

For the most part--the VRT for just about any Inner Ear injury---is the same---set---with a couple variations---its all good.......

:cool:

thanks subs.

how many times did you have to do the MEP before you noticed a diffrence? i guess it would make scense that its taking so long for me. plus now that i think of it my one doctor was explaining something to me and he kept saying the word debris and that once it clears out i will feel better. i wonder why they never said anything about it


also when you do the eply and the MEP or Brant excersises do you do both sides?

...."also when you do the eply and the MEP or Brant excersises do you do both sides?"......

I did the MEP exactly as stated in the instructions posted with the video---for the side with the rocks---never did the Epley/Brant...

If u do that---the MEP(s) should clear out any debris.....it is very important---that you do the initial sets of the MEP---for the length of time stated---and as often as stated---then do not do any more---until---ur body has had a chance to compensate for that effort---about 3 to 4 weeks

---if you still have some problems with that ear---after that---another---round of MEP's exactly as called out in the instructions---would be called for---to get any left over debris---out---then wait---etc.....

---After the debris is out and u have compensated(about 2/3 months)---then u can do an MEP(one set) every once in awhile---to see if any of the debris have drifted back in.....which is where I am now---do the MEP---occasionally(once month etc..)---no probs---since doing the MEP's following the instructions---religiously---no short cuts......nada!!!!!

:cool:

cool thank you

i do the MEP and i feel worse with my right ear than i do with my left ear when getting back up. the MEP just seems too simple so i worry that im not doing enough. i will keep doing it and hope for the best.

thank you

Did you do both of the ones in both videos ?

if my right inner ear is the problem then when i do the MEP i start with my head turned to the right and then lay backwards just like it shows in the video correct?

also how many times a day did you do it? ive read diffrent things so im a bit confused on how often.

im sorry for all of the questions i just want to make sure im doing them right

I just went to see a neurotologist at Mass Eye and Ear in Boston. He told me that the Epley can be counterproductive if you don't do it right. You may want to find a doc that can do it for you correctly so you know for sure this is how you need to do it.
My doc told me if the BPPV ever comes back, to call him and he'd squeeze me into the schedule that day. I think most docs will do that.

...."Did you do both of the ones in both videos ?".....

No---just the MEP---and only do it for the right ear.....

...."if my right inner ear is the problem then when i do the MEP i start with my head turned to the right and then lay backwards just like it shows in the video correct?".....

Yes---just like the MEP video shows---that video shows a right ear problem.

...."also how many times a day did you do it? ive read diffrent things so im a bit confused on how often.".....

Don't have it here in front of me---but believe it is "three sets of MEP each time" ---"three times a day i.e.,in "24 hours" for______(can't remember how many days u do it for)

"im sorry for all of the questions i just want to make sure im doing them right"

No Problem! it is very very important u do it right!

:cool:

thank you!

when i go to the MEP part there is video one and video two so that i why i asked what one you did.

i would be worried about doing it wrong but i don't see how it could be done wrong.

im just now wondering how many times a day. i saw one thing that said 3 times before going to bed

Subs how many times did you do it a day when you did it?

thanks again

thank you!

when i go to the MEP part there is video one and video two so that i why i asked what one you did.

i would be worried about doing it wrong but i don't see how it could be done wrong.

im just now wondering how many times a day. i saw one thing that said 3 times before going to bed

Subs how many times did you do it a day when you did it?

thanks again

Yep---I understand on the video's.

I did the MEP as follows:

One set in morning.

One set in afternoon.

One set prior to going to bed.

Note: Set = 3 MEP Maneuvers

X

3 Sets

= 9 MEP's Maneuvers

within 24 hours window.

Think--that's what the instructions specify.

:cool:

thank you Subs

now i heard it takes a couple weeks. how did you feel the 1st couple days?

i notice that when i do it im not getting dizzy but the only thing really is that im getting pressure in my head and alittle headache afterwards.

i read a post you had before that says that if you don't get the vertigo dizziness then the rocks are already out and your already compensating.

how can you tell the diffrence between having bppv going on and just plain compensating

thank you Subs

now i heard it takes a couple weeks. how did you feel the 1st couple days?

i notice that when i do it im not getting dizzy but the only thing really is that im getting pressure in my head and alittle headache afterwards.

i read a post you had before that says that if you don't get the vertigo dizziness then the rocks are already out and your already compensating.

how can you tell the diffrence between having bppv going on and just plain compensating

If in the beginning ur symptoms of BPPV were vertigo---it would be "NO" vertigo.

When the BPPV is more hidden then that,i.e., fragments(debris) have not reached the "critical mass" to cause vertigo---and---u just get---symptoms---with the bad ear down(first time)---then it is more trial and error.

When u have done the proscribed sets for the length of time in the instructions for the MEP---I would assume---some type of fragment(debris) clearing---stop---and allow compensation---see if that works---kind of trial and error---or let the fragments(debris) build up to a crtical mass---and u get the pronounced symptom---of vertigo.....

:cool:

im not sure if i understand you last comment

i read in a past post that you made that was talking about how if you don't get the spinning vertigo from the MEP that the rocks probably have cleared and your compensating. so i was wondering if i should even being worried about bppv given that i don't get spinning from the MEP or really anything but alittle head pressure.

also i read that you said it took about 2 and a half years before you could roll in your bed again. but i thought you were 100% after 14 months

im not sure if i understand you last comment

i read in a past post that you made that was talking about how if you don't get the spinning vertigo from the MEP that the rocks probably have cleared and your compensating. so i was wondering if i should even being worried about bppv given that i don't get spinning from the MEP or really anything but alittle head pressure.

also i read that you said it took about 2 and a half years before you could roll in your bed again. but i thought you were 100% after 14 months

Yep---2 1/2 yrs--before I felt comfortable to sleep on right side---and that was after 100% at 14 months....physically could do it---but mentally felt uncomfortable....

True on the vertigo---if what u mean by head pressure---its not from going down on your right ear on the MEP...

:cool:

Hi Subs and C&R,

I just reviewed the paper where I originally found the MEP in 2004 and here's what they had the patients do in the MEP group.

In summary:

Self-treatment of benign paroxysmal positional vertigo: Semont maneuver vs (modified) Epley procedure.
Neurology. 2004 Jul 13;63(1):150-2

Patients performed the maneuver once under supervision of the instructing physician. Patients performed the exercise three times daily until positional vertigo had ceased for at least 24 hours. They indicated in a diary whether positional vertigo occurred during each treatment session to determine the number of sessions needed for subjective relief of vertigo and documented treatment-related side effects (eg, nausea, gait imbalance, and dizziness). Successful treatment after 1 week was defined as absence of positional vertigo and absence of nystagmus on positional testing.

At follow-up evaluation after 1 week, 35 of 37 patients (95%) in the MEP group were asymptomatic and showed a negative positional test.

There is another follow-up paper (Neurology. 2005 Oct 25;65(8):1299-300) where they used a randomised controlled trial (RCT) comparing the EP alone versus the MEP versus the EP + MEP. The best result was the EP done by a clinician followed by the patient continuing with the MEP at home.

Success rate:

EP alone = 72%
MEP alone = 90%
EP + MEP = 95%

Best...Scott :cool:

Sorry I missed this thread earlier...
Just to put in my experience for Come&relax...
I had a true spinning vertigo the first time I did the MEP, later that day I did it again and had a very brief spin in the last position (head down facing the bed) and the third time I didn't have any symptoms and didn't again for over a year. I have had two very minor recurrences since, both taken care of with one or two MEP's.
This past episode I didn't have any actual spinning but my eyes were "shaking" for lack of a better word and my head was working very hard at stopping a vertigo spell from occuring (weird way to describe it but that's what I felt)..
So you may not get a spin, but, as Subs says, if you were to repeat the movement it would improve (fatigue) with repetition...that helps with the diagnosis of BPPV.
HOpe you are improved with the MEP, it's as close to a magic pill as you can get with any inner ear disorder!
FC

firechick

wow cool so you only had to do the MEP once or twice for it to work? now when you said you did the MEP once did you do it in the sets of 3 like Subs was saying?

firechick

wow cool so you only had to do the MEP once or twice for it to work? now when you said you did the MEP once did you do it in the sets of 3 like Subs was saying?

My right ear is affected so I would lay back on my bed with my head just off the bed. My head is tilted on a 45 degree angle upwards and to the right (right ear down), after 30 seconds (or until Vertigo subsides if longer than 30sec) roll head over to left side off at a 45 degree angle for 30 sec, then roll over to my stomach with my head on a very slight angle down looking at the floor for 30 sec...the slowly and smoothly sit up and let things settle for a few seconds
that would me one MEP for me, I didn't repeat it until later in the day.
Does that make sense?
FC

comeandrelax-
this is a very interesting thread, and being that I was diagnosed with BPPV, it is of special interest to me. I too have read about doing the MEP 3x's a day, but my schedual just does not allow for that, so I modified it to what I could do. I was doing MEP's at night, every night since mid Feb. (I started getting dizzy in Oct. and was diagnosed in Jan.). Last month was the first month that I felt 100% every day except for three! I still do it once every three days, and Subs, if you read this, I have a question for you since you seem to really know about what to do: Is this right to do?

Oh- and by the way, I don't get dizzy anymore when I do the MEP's. What does this mean. Does it mean I am in compensation or whatever its called?

Oh- and by the way, I don't get dizzy anymore when I do the MEP's. What does this mean. Does it mean I am in compensation or whatever its called?

Hi Centaur

Yes---it was the right thing to do---for me---and suspect for you also...

What it means is the "Rocks" are out of the canal---which allows compensation to take place---the fact that u don't get dizzy would indicate---that you are well along(if not complete)with the compensation process/period...usually it is a two step process

---1. Get the Rocks out. 2. Compensate with VRT's, walking, etc...However there are some---that go right back to full compensation---immediately---after the MEP(Epley, etc..)their the lucky ones!!

The compensation process allows the brain a chance to redo the calculations---that the BPPV---screwed up....

Nice going....

:cool:

Hi Subs,

I had an Epley 2 years ago, no BPPV since, but it screwed up my balance very severly that it took me almost a month to be able to walk without my husband's assistance! For this reason I never did the MEP (and luckly never had a reoccurance of BPPV).

I still get dizzy and off balance, some days in the high 90's% some in the lower. Haven't sleep on my left (bad) side since.

My question is: could it be that I am still compensating two years after or it there something else going on worth checking again?

Thanks for being so helpful for all the dizzy suffers here...


comeandrelax-sorry for entering your thread, hope your feeling better.

...."My question is: could it be that I am still compensating two years after or it there something else going on worth checking again?"....



Hi Eddizzyna

As I understand it:

A couple of things could(could) be happening---since the "Rocks" are really(usually) fragments---some could still be in there---or may have slipped back---usually---when that happens---people get the Epley done again---many on here have had it done more then once(twice, three times, etc...)---that would be "Step 1" of the Two Step---it is not possible to compensate---if the brain is constantly having to change the "Balance Equations"---because the are changing---due to "Rocks"(fragments) in the canal----that needs to be stabalized,i.e., a constant needs to be established for the "Brain"---either no "Rocks" or "Rocks" out---but deficit in the canal/pathway---due to injury from the "Rocks" bouncing around in the canal---when they were in there.

When "Step 1" is completed---successfully---then---in most cases---the Brain needs to re-due/refine the mathematical calculations---for the current---pathways/canals---that usually takes(no in all cases) time---and is accomplished through VRT, Walking, etc.....eventually the Brain has redefined all the calculations---shifted the primary input signals from "Vision" back to the "Inner Ear"---and you are fully compensated...

Most research centers---believe(but no one knows for sure) that the Brain receives balance inputs as follows:

Vision----40%

Vestibular---30%

Proprioception---30%

When u have an Inner Ear injury---the Brain---basically shuts down Vestibular(Inner Ear) signals(there unreliable) and mainly uses "Vision"---which requires the Brain to recalculate/re-due many of the equations---that were established---from the time u first moved.

In ur case(and mine)---once the "Rocks" are out(and stay out)---the Brain slowly learns(through VRT's, walking, moving, etc...) that the Vestibular system is reliable--and starts to shift back---redoing/refining the equations again---until---for the most part---it gets back to normal(or as close as it can get---with any deficit)---for some---the deficit is to great---and u never get back to 100%.

At least---that's they way I understand it...

:cool:

Subs-
Thank you so much for your input! You obviously know your stuff and the wisdom that you've shared is soooooooo helpful! Thank you!!!!!!:D I don't have a regular doctor that I can just call up and go to (I called a ENT clinic that advertised in the Yellow Pages as specialising in dizzy disorders and that's how I got diagnosed.) so the info. that you've shared is invaluable. Tahnks!

Hi Subs,

Thanks very much for the long and detailed explanation. Your imput, as always, is very valued. Thank you for taking the time to explain again and again these things. I join centaur in praising you. You are certinly more helpful then most of the doctors I met since all this started for my 8 years ago. I guess I am just taking longer to compensate...

Hope your feeling well and enjoying your dizzy-free days.:)