Hi to my friends,

For those of you who are not familiar with my posts, I am married to my BP II/ADHD hubbie for 11 yrs. and we have 2 young children - to cut to the point, we have been thru many of the same ups and downs and everyone else, he is medicated although not 100% stable yet (currently on lithium, adderall and began taking lamictal 2 wks ago). He is also in therapy for 3 months now on his own. Even after all this time (4 yrs), he still has feelings of denial in his illness that it 'truly exists' which confuses and amazes me after all he's learned and after the progress with himself and within our marriage and family. I guess as long as he stays committed to his treatment, he can think whatever he wants, but I think this drives worry with me on whether "one day" he will decide he's not really ill or that he doesn't need meds anymore, and then things could get much, much worse, as they were before he was diagnosed and medicated. This is not a comfortable feeling for me to live with. But...one day at a time.

I have asked these questions differently previously, but here they are again: (many relate to symptoms of the illness itself, but again trying to gain more understanding)

1) did any of you struggle with denial and if so, what brought acceptance and how long did it take? were there other factors involved?

2) if my husband is having a 'mood swing' (he is supposedly getting better at recognizing his own behaviour changes), why is he so quick to twist and distort everything as if it's my fault in some way? Why can't he just apologize, be accountable or say he needs to be left alone or whatever, and things will move on and heal.

3) why does he say unsubstantiated and hurtful things that are totally offbase when he is 'having a moment', but then acts completely the opposite when he's feeling fine? Does he really believe or mean the hurtful things he says when he's spouting things off or ranting on and on for no reason? And if not, where do these things come from? What am I as the wife supposed to listen to and not listen to? Should I really let all this stuff just roll off? Currently, I will either tell him that's not true or that he's being irrational or distorting something, if I argue with him it does no good and he doesn't ever 'understand' what I am trying to say it seems.

In my husband's situation, he must feel badly about himself from within so anytime I disagree with him or there is stress involved, he always says we're "just wanting him to feel badly about himself" or "trying to tell him how to think", even after the millions of times I have tried to explain to him that we all listen to him and want him to feel great about himself because he is the best father and husband and very valued & loved. This mindset of his could have something to do with his upbringing, but I'm wondering about the "feeling badly within" and guilt factor of a bipolar person.

THIS IS A TRUE CONVERSATION WITH MY HUBBIE THIS AM:

hubbie: "I'd like my mom to keep her house because of the childhood memories"
wife: "I thought you wanted her to sell her house?" (true)
hubbie: "Stop trying to twist something to be something else"
wife: "What do you mean?"
hubbie: "Stop trying to tell me how to think"
wife: "What? I'm not at all, just wondering if you still want her to sell her house"
hubbie: Ugly now, "You're making a big deal out of something but I'M THE BIPOLAR ONE, you don't even know what I'm saying, you're trying to tell me how to think and trying to make me feel badly about myself, as usual"

5 minutes later...
hubbie: "You know, I have a problem, but then people around here expect me to not show my problem" (I guess this is saying that he realizes he 'had a moment'??)

To me, this is not even a normal conversation and I see no way around it when he'll go on and on about something as small as the subject above. It isn't this way all of the time, but it can happen at anytime and usually does.

I really appreciate all the insight I can get. I am just so drained and confused trying to do everything to help my husband and feeling like I'm in a Catch-22 and on eggshells, and not knowing what he really believes or means half the time, and fighting my normal emotions by saying that this is probably just the illness talking. It really is bizarre.

Thanks!!
4support

I'm going to be totally honest with you, right now I'm not in the right frame of mind so bare with me.

I go through all those things, do you think we like knowing that we have to take Medication for the rest of our lives so that we can go to threapy and pdoc appts in order to think normal...

We get sick from the meds only to find out they don't work, we go through another cycle hoping this is the one... and it's not.. the cycle goes on!

No one should be verbally abused but just like normal people we get mouthy only it's looked at differently, don't get me wrong we are extreme and if I had a answer to why we do this I would be following it right now.

I just hope that whoever is with me sees the beautiful parts that will out shadow negativity because that is not me...

I'm so sorry you are going through this, I wish non of us had this disorder and I look up to the ones that learned to maintain it... It's normal (I think) to question it.. One minute you feel fine, like nothing is wrong and then next you don't even know who you are...

I hope that made sense, I'm maniac right now, sorry if I seem bratty that was not my intentions..

Hi deenah...

Thanks for your input! I definetely love my hubbie for the beautiful and special person that he is, that is why we have been married for so long! I feel compassion and give support and I will do anything to help my husband. I just want to feel comfortable in my own marriage and try to understand the best I can what happens to him in these 'moments'. Of course no one should be verbally abused, but I am trying to understand where some of this stuff comes from when he's so forthcoming about how happy and in love for the rest of his life he is when he is well. I can overlook lots because I love him and we know he loves us, but him being accountable (saying he's having a moment, apologizing, controlling some of his words) goes a long way in helping the spouse to heal and move on feeling good about the relationship. I think this is a part of the illness that is confusing to us when we're not struggling with BP, the thing is...when your BP spouse continuously bashes your character or whatever for years, the things are still being said to you (illness or not) and like any normal person, you start wondering if they really mean those things, or if they are coming from their own insecurities about themself (which is what therapy is pointing to).

Thanks and I hope you feel better soon!
4support

i don't know. i think it can become a crutch for some people.

it is almost like giving permission to be an a-hole.

granted, some cannot be controlled, but i think there is a point where it just becomes an excuse.

i know all the meds and ups and downs can make someone jaded.

hopefully, the lamictal will help.

i wish this did not sound so harsh. maybe by admitting he has a problem he will have to watch his behavior and be more responsible. make sense?

but, then again, i could be totally wrong. i am not in your situation. i just don't think it should be discounted.

hope i didn't offend.

kathryn

Hi kathryn,

Thank you! All of this insight is very valuable to me. I agree that the behaviour should not be discounted, which is why I address it with him, although he is more receptive later on. He has made progress, which is why I have a certain level of tolerance. He tries most of the time, is on meds and goes to therapy. I realize perfection doesn't exist, I just want him to be the best he can be, for himself and for our family. Just trying to understand more...

Thanks,
4support

I have asked these questions differently previously, but here they are again: (many relate to symptoms of the illness itself, but again trying to gain more understanding)

1) did any of you struggle with denial and if so, what brought acceptance and how long did it take? were there other factors involved? I think acceptance is for some a mood oriented path...meaning if I am manic I tend to believe that every is honkey dorie because that is how it feels even if nothing could be further from the truth. It is easy to see then that I don't need meds since everything pretty much looks golden even if it is fool's gold. However, what goes up must in time come down and then you look back and you are like OMG at things you thought or felt. Then it is really apparent and then some. Other people also for me play a role to a point. Sometimes sadly the paranoia gets egged on and they seem to think little of it. That hurts rather then helps they don't see just how far out of whack it can get when you have someone supporting your paranoid delusions or sarcastically making fun of them. Only it is not really seen as being made fun of then it feels more like they agree.

2) if my husband is having a 'mood swing' (he is supposedly getting better at recognizing his own behaviour changes), why is he so quick to twist and distort everything as if it's my fault in some way? Why can't he just apologize, be accountable or say he needs to be left alone or whatever, and things will move on and heal. I think when the mood is twisted so is the thought pattern so what feels right to him then is how he feels even if it is not how he might feel during an inbetween phase. It is easier sometimes to blame others and to find fault with them when the thinking is so distorted. It seems rational but that is in the eye of the beholder I think. I know for me later on I end up apologizing for things I said and try to say ok out of what was said this is what I meant really and not this. I hate those times so much guilt and shame over something that was a runaway train. It felt perfectly fine to say or do. Reality is different at times for all of us and sadly we don't all share the same view of it.

3) why does he say unsubstantiated and hurtful things that are totally offbase when he is 'having a moment', but then acts completely the opposite when he's feeling fine? Does he really believe or mean the hurtful things he says when he's spouting things off or ranting on and on for no reason? And if not, where do these things come from? What am I as the wife supposed to listen to and not listen to? Should I really let all this stuff just roll off? Currently, I will either tell him that's not true or that he's being irrational or distorting something, if I argue with him it does no good and he doesn't ever 'understand' what I am trying to say it seems.
I think once again it goes back to the distortion in thought patterns. So yeap probably at the time that is how he feels about a given topic. I have said some really out of the way things that luckily my husband takes pretty much with a grain of salt. Of course, that doesn't always hold true but he is pretty cool about talking about the stuff like me wanting to leave this marriage in a rational way and understands better about it then i might give him credit. My reasons to me are pretty rational when I think them but aren't based on too much currently that really are. No, arguing is like challenging someone's belief in their religious faith to some extent. You will be purple and they probably won't change their opinion or belief at all. So trying to say hon guess what etc...it is hard to get through then too much static going on for it to sort of happen. I would continue to try to get him into the reality of what he is thinking and pointing out the truth of things. Working through it might be more beneficial in the long run then to believe the aliens have landed and live next door to us kind of thing. I don't mean your hubby litterally thinks that just a general hypothetical case is all.

He is lucky to have you in his life and I hope you are taking care of yourself and doing stuff you enjoy to help with stress.

Eme

Hi, I was wondering if you are able to see this? I have noticed that when my soon to be X goes off on a hateful tirate her voice actually changes and she uses sentances and terms that she would not ever use I don't know if that makes sence but I guess what i'm saying is it's easy for me to let things to "roll off" because the person tearing me down doesn't even sound like my wife. I'm sure you have herd the term it wasn't "him" saying those hateful things" to me it's not my wife saying those things, but the real her just wont come back, I hope your situation is different. In my situation there was just too much damage done. Yes stress of any kind will cause instant verbal abuse toward me even if I wasn't the one to cause the stress. But like I said in another thread it's been going on for so long and it's always the same thing "I hate" " I love you"
"I want you" "I don't want you" "everything is your fault" "It isn't your fault I'm sick" "your the one with BP not me" " I don't remeber saying that" and my favirote "I only married you because we were already living together at the time" Sometimes Love isn't enough

Hi, I was wondering if you are able to see this? I have noticed that when my soon to be X goes off on a hateful tirate her voice actually changes and she uses sentances and terms that she would not ever use I don't know if that makes sence but I guess what i'm saying is it's easy for me to let things to "roll off" because the person tearing me down doesn't even sound like my wife. I'm sure you have herd the term it wasn't "him" saying those hateful things" to me it's not my wife saying those things, but the real her just wont come back, I hope your situation is different. In my situation there was just too much damage done. Yes stress of any kind will cause instant verbal abuse toward me even if I wasn't the one to cause the stress. But like I said in another thread it's been going on for so long and it's always the same thing "I hate" " I love you"
"I want you" "I don't want you" "everything is your fault" "It isn't your fault I'm sick" "your the one with BP not me" " I don't remeber saying that" and my favirote "I only married you because we were already living together at the time" Sometimes Love isn't enough

Hi distroyed,

How are you and your babies doing?

Wow, after reading thru your reply to me, the similarities are a little creepy...my husband has said a lot of the same things to me during his 'episodes' and then the exact opposite when he is well. :dizzy: His voice doesn't change but his facial expression does and he can become very nasty, when normally he is a gentle, loving and wonderful man (the man I married)! Then the same thing happens when he is well - he either doesn't want to talk about what he said, he doesn't remember saying those things, I must be exaggerating, or 'everything is just fine'. If I try to continue to talk to him about why it hurt me or us, he will sometimes say 'well if it's that bad, just leave", which of course is very hurtful. I don't see how threatening the relationship when he is the one responsible for most of the conflict makes anything better. He seems to have a real disconnect from his behaviour and how it affects the rest of us. This is really distressing to me because it's as if he can create chaos and make us miserable, confused and hurt, but then he expects us to be unaffected and go on as if nothing ever happened. All of us experience stress in life but it is how we react to it. It's as if small, trivial things set him off into huge tirades and argumentative rants, and this is not all the time but when he's having a 'bad day'. I guess maybe men have a better way of letting things 'roll off' (don't mean to generalize), but I have a hard time doing so because it is still HIM (in the flesh at least) saying those things to me or the worst thing is when the children hear him saying distorted and hurtful things to their mother. To me, that is unacceptable. I am trying to raise my 2 little ones in a consistent, loving and well balanced environment. They don't understand at this age when Daddy is having an 'episode' vs. when he is truly himself. I can hardly decipher it, even though to me it's obvious when he's not himself! I am really struggling with this because I want my children to see their father treating their mother with respect, and he doesn't do this when he's ranting on and on out of control.

My husband has been on mood stabilizers and goes to consistent therapy. I am waiting for the Lamictal to kick in (about 2 more weeks) to see how he is then.

What's wearing on me are not just his mood swings and distorted comments, but I worry about him ever finding the right meds with as long as it's been. I am not a negative person at all, but very optimistic. But sometimes I do wonder how much I can take of this and there comes a point to where he needs to fully accept his dx, accept responsibility for his actions, and be totally committed to striving for wellness for the rest of his life. I mean, why would he want to feel badly and out of control and why would he want to drive away his family that he loves so much?

That's the funny thing about love, some of us keep hoping it can overcome all things. I know we are not always in control, but in my situation (for one reason, my husband is trying by taking his meds and going to therapy), not only do I love him but our children do too.

I just pray for strength and wellness for my husband, every day.

Thank you so much for your support and sharing your experience, it means so much to talk with friends who really understand this. :angel:

4support

Hi Eme,

Thank you for putting such thought into answering my questions. I am still reading your replies and will post again to you soon...

4support