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Mr. Detail
06-08-2007, 08:37 AM
Just went downstairs to the nurses office here at work to check my blood pressure. It was up again (142/86) even after I sat still in a chair without moving or talking for 5 minutes. Last time I had it checked it was 126/80.
I exercise 3-4 times per week on a combination of aerobic machines (stairclimber,elliptical, bike) and I am not overweight or have a bad diet.
I also just had a echo-stress test done last week and passed it with flying colors.

Just wondered if anyone has some other ideas for any natural type supplements I could take to help lower my BP.
I have been taking celery seed extract, garlic, niacin, UDOS oil blend caps and ProFibe. I know about hawthorn berry but haven't taken any of that lately. I am not on any medication of any kind and would like to keep it that way as long as possible. Let me know if you think of anything I may have missed. Thanks!

acp44
06-08-2007, 08:51 AM
Just went downstairs to the nurses office here at work to check my blood pressure. It was up again (142/86) even after I sat still in a chair without moving or talking for 5 minutes. Last time I had it checked it was 126/80.
I exercise 3-4 times per week on a combination of aerobic machines (stairclimber,elliptical, bike) and I am not overweight or have a bad diet.
I also just had a echo-stress test done last week and passed it with flying colors.

Just wondered if anyone has some other ideas for any natural type supplements I could take to help lower my BP.
I have been taking celery seed extract, garlic, niacin, UDOS oil blend caps and ProFibe. I know about hawthorn berry but haven't taken any of that lately. I am not on any medication of any kind and would like to keep it that way as long as possible. Let me know if you think of anything I may have missed. Thanks!


Given the discrepancy between readings, make sure you do not suffer from "white coat hyprtension" like many of us.

Re supplements, there are plenty of others you may want to consider: coenzyme q and fish oil/or flaxseed for Omega 3s. Two amino acids, L-arginine and L-Taurine are reported to work for some people (both taken together on an empty stomach). Another class of supplements are peptides, and you can find one called C-12 made from dairy protein, and another one made from bonito fish. Olive leafe is another herb reported to help a lot of people with blood pressure.

Good luck!

acp

Lenin
06-08-2007, 03:08 PM
Mr. Detail,

Look into some of the diuretic herbs: dandelion, hydrangea, buchu, uva ursi seem the commonest.

boots4me
07-26-2007, 09:00 PM
I;m new but before I signed up to use this website I saw some things some were using. One was dried raisins soaked in lime juice, fenugreek and cinnamon, Then there was celery seed extract and something else. I can't find it now. The posts were very old. I am fed up with the bp meds I have been getting for the last four years. I'm diabetic. I had it under tight control with diet and Nature Made diabetic pack nuttrients and bp was fine with diazide and 12.5 mg cozaar four years ago. My bp is always higher in drs office than at home. I proved to my dr that my wrist cuff was accurate as his cuff and showed him reading in memory proving that my bp was always under 125/75. He wanted it that low in his office and told me to double cozaar. I'd also lost 25 lbs in 4 mos up to that point. I told him cozaar would raise my blood sugar. He said do it anyway. Blood sugar went up, gained weight back, bp went up more and was told to double cozaar again. Had Cobra ins, it ran out and he told me to get on medicaid and go to county drs. I stayed on meds but did not go to a dr. After a time my heart would pound and race shortly after taking cozaar, and left ankle swelled. Finally broke down to went to clinic connected to nearby hospital. My bp was 185/120. They switched my meds, and switched them and switched them some more. I have had adverse reaction to everything but nefidipine. I had some low back pain prior,and it became increasingly worse, then leg pain, hip, and knee pain and never attributed it to meds. I was given Benicar over a year ago. I took in an exhibit at a local church at Christmas time and the pain was so bad I had to sit down almost as soon as I got in the church. A lady there asked me if I'd like to use a wheelchair. I did. The year before they had the same thing going on and I walked for more than an hour before I had to sit.

I have a raised rock garden (over 1200 ft in my front yard) We had cold rainy spring and I worked when I could. Got a notice from the city to take care of all unattended vegetation and had 12 days to do it or get a fine. I'm on limited income, so I took L-arginine and L-ornithine to give me the strength to do it all. Also took hawthorn preparation I keep around when I get tired from overdoing it. I have never taken it more than 4 or 5 days straight. I'm on oxygen because my heart beats too fast (100 a min) to make up for lack of it. I used Vitamin O. A week after I was all done and not using this extra nutrients anymore I attended a health fair. My oximeter reading was 95-where they want it to be (it's normally 93) and I hadnt used oxygen at all that morning. My bp was 107/69 and my heart rate was 89. I hadn't yet taken Benicar. My bp has never been that low in my life, and benicar and nefidipine never really controlled it - 130-138 over 75-85. This low bp kept up for three weeks, during which time I stopped the benicar. Guess what? My hair has stopped falling out, ridges in my nails have gone away, my heart rate is around 80-85 most of the time, and my back, hip, leg and knee pain has gone away completely. I'm steadier on my feet and I can actually walk three blocks without pain and can work hours in yard. (First time in over three years). I took benicar one time last week. Next morning when I got up, all the pain was back and was as bad as the worst its been. I'm mad as he--. I'd told my dr about pain but he just makes a note in my chart. I'm due to go to him, but haven't made appt yet.

For the first time in four years, I actually feel like my old self, and I finally have energy again. The bp has crept up to near where it was while taking benicar, but it's no worse. I've taken the hawthorn and can't really tell if it's doing anything. I can breath better, so suspect it is. I've been taking herbs for 30 years and they don't scare me, but I research everything and seldom take anything new. If I thought hawthorn would do anything, I'd have taken it a long time ago. The l-arginine and l-ornithine seem to do more. Come hell-or-high water, I will find something that will work. If I don't, I may die, but I'm going to die living a life and not sitting on my butt because of pain and lack of energy caused by prescription drugs. And, I will never again take a bp drug that raises blood sugar. How does anything like that get approved??? The drs told me each one they were giving me raises blood sugar and I told them, "That's like throwing gasoline on fire". My blood sugar isn't under good control either. Metformin causes lots of problems for me too.

I want the recipe for the raisin, lime juice and fenugreek and cinnamon, if somebody out there has it and if they had success with it or not. I already take flaxseed, fish oil, CO Q10 and magnesium.

Sorry for the long post but I don't want recommendation for this-and-that in the way of prescriptions and all the above is the reason. Herbs or nutrients or foods work better for me than drugs. (Eventually I listen to my body and not the dr. I forgot that for a while) The trick is finding what works. Any ideas will be most appreciated.

flowergirl2day
07-26-2007, 09:47 PM
Boots,


Come hell-or-high water, I will find something that will work. If I don't, I may die, but I'm going to die living a life and not sitting on my butt because of pain and lack of energy caused by prescription drugs. And, I will never again take a bp drug that raises blood sugar. How does anything like that get approved??? The drs told me each one they were giving me raises blood sugar and I told them, "That's like throwing gasoline on fire". My blood sugar isn't under good control either. Metformin causes lots of problems for me too.

What a post! You've been through so much! I guess very little detective work was needed on your part to find out what was making you so sick. There are many of us with similar experiences with our prescription drugs. Many more than the drug manufacturers would have everyone believe!

Thank you for taking the time to write up this post - it must have taken some effort. We all NEED to hear of these experiences. We need to be shocked into exhausting every possible option of lowering our blood pressure naturally, before making the decision to go on BP meds. Or worse yet, before allowing our doctors to make this decision for us when the use of BP meds is not necessary!
While not everyone may feel the same way you do, to some of us you are an inspiration! :)

I wish I could help with your query. Perhaps one of the other members has the answer. Good luck.

PS. You cannot go wrong with the fish oil, CoQ10 and flaxseed.


Flowergirl

joe86
07-27-2007, 12:25 PM
Hi,
I've been through all this stuff too, trying all the herbs and supplements you hear about on the web. There's so many of them and it's really difficult to tell what's doing what after a while.
Everyone's different and some people really do find something that works wonders for them but I think it's like groping around in the dark.
None of these things did anything for me. I hope I don't sound too much like a skeptic but that's just my experience. I'm not against natural health because I think lifestyle changes can make a big difference, moreso than ingesting natural remedies.
My own natural wonder probably sounds like quackery to some people too. That's slow breathing. It worked after I had tried and failed with everything else and it continues to manage my bp. With all the time and effort you're spending on consumable remedies I urge you to try slow breathing. It costs next to nothing or you can even find free instructions if you look around. Check my other posts for more details.

bethsheba
07-27-2007, 12:28 PM
Your exercise program sounds great! Just out of curiosity, what do you consider a good diet? Have you checked out the DASH diet?

Bethsheba

bethsheba
07-27-2007, 12:36 PM
...Everyone's different and some people really do find something that works wonders for them but I think it's like groping around in the dark.
None of these things did anything for me. I hope I don't sound too much like a skeptic but that's just my experience. I'm not against natural health because I think lifestyle changes can make a big difference, moreso than ingesting natural remedies.
My own natural wonder probably sounds like quackery to some people too. That's slow breathing. It worked after I had tried and failed with everything else and it continues to manage my bp. With all the time and effort you're spending on consumable remedies I urge you to try slow breathing. It costs next to nothing or you can even find free instructions if you look around. Check my other posts for more details.

Your comments about supplements are valid but better yet backed by your personal experience! I personally do not find anything "natural" about supplements. It would be far healthier, less costly, and more interesting to eat a well balanced diet...but that's not as easy as taking a supplement.

The slow breathing is not quackery and is being taken very seriously by our federal government. The value of slowed breathing is recognized by many disciplines--cardiology, respiratory therapy, sleep medicine, psychology, for a few.

Bethsheba

boots4me
07-30-2007, 05:06 PM
Your comments about supplements are valid but better yet backed by your personal experience! I personally do not find anything "natural" about supplements. It would be far healthier, less costly, and more interesting to eat a well balanced diet...but that's not as easy as taking a supplement.

The slow breathing is not quackery and is being taken very seriously by our federal government. The value of slowed breathing is recognized by many disciplines--cardiology, respiratory therapy, sleep medicine, psychology, for a few.

Bethsheba
You're right, supplements aren't natural. However, about 15 yrs ago I took a multi-mineral tablet, felt nothig and noticed when I doubled the dose, I felt better. I went to a nutritionist and got a hair analysis because I knew two nurses that said hair analysis uncovered some problems they had, that traditional tests did not. My analysis showed that I don't absorb nutrients well and that's why I need more. (And aluminum was off the chart) I told my dr and he laughed.

I searched [removed] to try to figure out how much I would have to eat of which foods, to get the nutrients I get out of the supplements I take. I'm 66 and the bodies natural ability to manufacture or convert some nutrients declines with age. [removed] I found a list with the food, quantity and mg of sprecific nutrient you derive out of that food.

My diet could admitedly be better in some areas - like fish, but I'm allergic to some fish. I eat tuna occasionally but get an allergic arthritis. I buy canned salmon when it's on sale. I'm on Soc Sec. and can't afford to pay $8 to $12 a pound for 4 4 oz servings of fresh. Otherwise, I eat whole grains, fruits, vegies, legumes, (probably fall down some on meat and dairy at times), I avoid all sugar substitutes, but use stevia and sometimes honey. I avoid canned and other processed food and eat fresh as much as I can. And I use olive oil in cooking.

Some nutrients I take can't be had from food. Like Alpha lipoic acid. That helps lower my blood sugar. I take extra magnesium because diabetics are low in that and that helps the blood pressure (my dr approved when I asked him). I basically take what is in Nature Made Diabetic Health Pack, Glucosomine & Condroitin and Coral Calcium with all the nutr. the extra Magnisium and of course fish oil, flaxseed oil, and sometimes switch to borage oil. I've found some brands of nutrients are useless (so much for standardization). It costs, but if I run out of something I can tell within 2 to 5 days. Given the cost of gas, and depletion of nutrients as foods sit two or three days in the store and then at home, I'm not so sure food is cheaper.

I have tried deep breathing a little in the past and noticed it lowers the blood pressure while I'm doing it. Never really done it a lot, but I will definatly check it out and try it more. With that, and my pains being gone (it's SOOOO wonderful) by eliminating benicar, I can get some much needed exercise and that should help too. If I can start to lose weight again and that would help everything. BP is running mid 120's to mid 130's over 70's, most of the time. That's still less than with benicar.

Thanks for your input.




Thanks for your input.

bethsheba
07-31-2007, 04:39 AM
Hello Boots,

Many thanks for your post...you reminded me of things that I knew but haven't thought about for awhile.

I'd like to take some quality time to respond but I'm busy so I won't be getting back to you for awhile....but I'll be thinking of what you said in the meantime.

I, too, experienced a decrease in bp (10-20 ponts) when I took myself off of bp meds. While on benicar hct experienced horrible restless leg syndrome. I know that many bp meds cause problems with sleep (benicar hct obviously did for me) and not getting quality sleep can elevate bp. But that's another story.

Will get back to you as soon as I can.

Bethsheba

boots4me
08-02-2007, 01:35 PM
I had a supplement with Hawthorn, Co Q 10. Vit E. and L-taurine that I've had around but never really took it because of benicar and didn't know what taking it would do. Been taking it 4 days and I've noticed the BP goes down soon after. I'm taking everything in it but L-taurine, (I quit the other hawthorne herbal combo) so that must be whats doing it. And guess what? Monitoring my blood pressure so much, I found out it really drops when I have my 19 mo old grandson around - and he gives his parents fits.

And I've tried the deep breathing. If it's higher than I like to see, I wait a while, deep breathe and it does go down and the pulse rate goes down. So I'll have to keep that up. Thanks.

anneh
08-04-2007, 08:43 AM
Just went downstairs to the nurses office here at work to check my blood pressure. It was up again (142/86) even after I sat still in a chair without moving or talking for 5 minutes. Last time I had it checked it was 126/80.
I exercise 3-4 times per week on a combination of aerobic machines (stairclimber,elliptical, bike) and I am not overweight or have a bad diet.
I also just had a echo-stress test done last week and passed it with flying colors.

Just wondered if anyone has some other ideas for any natural type supplements I could take to help lower my BP.
I have been taking celery seed extract, garlic, niacin, UDOS oil blend caps and ProFibe. I know about hawthorn berry but haven't taken any of that lately. I am not on any medication of any kind and would like to keep it that way as long as possible. Let me know if you think of anything I may have missed. Thanks!
I wish my bp was that low in the Dr office. Personally I would not be worried if I were you. You are getting good readings at home and your bp is not that much above normal. My husband is 85yo and his bp has been 140/80 or thereabouts for over 50 years with no ill effect in fact that last thing he would ever do is take meds for anything and he is in wonderful health. They tried to make him take meds to lower his cholesterol but when he read the side effects he refused and it was around that time we becames vegetarians so his cholesterol lowered itself and altho still on the high side he has no problems and is not worried about it. anneh

bethsheba
08-16-2007, 03:26 AM
Hi Boots,

Sorry it took me so long to get back to you...since we've "talked" I've come across many government sites that were of interest "nutritionally" but unfortunately, I didn't keep a record.

A recent site I came across is "http://www.health.gov/dietaryguidelines/dga2005/healthieryou/contents.htm", which contains some very helpful info...everything from diet and exercise guidelines, to info about fats, carbs, alcohol, and food sources with nutrient contents.

It's really a wealth of nutritional info!

Bethsheba

bethsheba
09-21-2007, 07:51 AM
While reading about the DASH diet, I came across the following info:

1. BP specialists realized that not everyone in the world developed hypertenion. People who lived in remote areas, non-Westernized areas, and people who were vegetarians tended to have a low risk of developing this condition.

2. People who were at low risk for developing hypertension ate diets that were high amounts of potassium, magnesium, and calcium, and contained fiber and protein, and low fat.

3. Based on what they learned about these diets, researchers did multiple studies in which participants were given supplements in pill form and their bp and health condtions were carefully recorded. Other studies factored in varying amounts of protein, fat, and fiber in the diet.

4. Results? Sometimes the bp went down and sometimes it didn't. In other words, supplements didn't consistently control blood pressure.

Researchers knew that there had to be some correlation between these key ingredients and hypertension, based on the diets of other cultures and the diets of vegetarians so the designed a study that would focus on a diet of getting the key nutrients in a diet of REAL FOOD, and not supplements. This diet, is now known as the Dietary Approaches to Stop Hypertension or DASH. More than 8000 people volunteered to participate in the DASH study. Results? Men and women who ate the DASH diet experienced a significant drop in both systolic and diastolic pressures...changes occurred within a week of starting the diet, leveled off after 2 weeks, and stayed lower for the remaining 8 weeks. The results for participants whose pressures were over 140/90 were more dramatic than those with lower pressures.

Scientists have proved that this diet works...why does it work when supplements don't (or at least don't work consistently)? They think that it may be a combination of the hundreds of substances in whole food that work together to create a lower pressures, but it's only a theory.

Bon appetit!

Bethsheba

flowergirl2day
09-21-2007, 08:05 AM
I agree. The best way to get the benefits of nutrients is, whenever possible and feasible, by consuming fresh foods first and foremost.
However, consuming the necessary recommended daily amounts of some might mean having to eat fish every other day (and still not be getting enough EPA & DHA while consuming too large an amount of mercury and other toxins) and munching on several fresh garlic cloves every day. I tried it initially before running out to purchase my first bottle of garlic supplements. That's when the supplements come in handy. :D

flowergirl

acp44
09-21-2007, 08:35 AM
There is much evidence to suggest that getting all your nutrients from food may not be possible. Studies comparing organic and non-organic produce, for example, not far higher concentrations of important phyto-chemicals in organic produce, which sadly is NOT available for everyone, or in great variation. Much produce is terribly deficient in necessary nutrients due to farming practices, depleted soils, etc.

In addition, the DASH diet is heavy on fruit, and for people watching their blood sugar (which is related to BP BTW), mega-dosing on fruit is not an option. And sadly, the most potassium-rich fruit are the highest in glycemic load.

Moreover, if one works and has a busy schedule, it is virtually impossible to eat like this over the long term, as preparing DASH friendly meals requires time that many people simply don't have. If you have to travel a lot on business, eat out, etc. you will have real problems.

Supplements are exactly that: SUPPLEMENTS. They are not meant to replace food products, but rather fill in the gaps. Sadly, the food we eat today is far less nutritious then what our grandparents grew/harvested/raised/hunted. Supplements, as Weil and others who know this subject better than most argue, are vital to make sure people get ALL the nutrients they need.

acp

acp44
09-21-2007, 08:41 AM
4. Results? Sometimes the bp went down and sometimes it didn't. In other words, supplements didn't consistently control blood pressure.

Sadly, there is NOTHING that "consistently control's blood pressure," including lifestyle changes and BP meds for that matter. This board is filled with people with "resistant hypertension" whose BP did not respond to diet and/or exercise.

The key is to find what works for YOU. Maybe its diet and exercise. Maybe its salt reduction. Maybe its eliminating alcohol. Maybe its stress reduction. Maybe its taking SOME supplements and avoiding others. And maybe its meds. There is NO "one size fits all" approach for blood pressure, and unfortunately few doctors or nutritionists for that matter realize this. BP is a very individualistic phenomenon, and treatment needs to be tailored to something that is sometimes very difficult to do: ascertain the CAUSE of someone's BP and go from there.

acp

bethsheba
09-21-2007, 11:03 AM
...In addition, the DASH diet is heavy on fruit, and for people watching their blood sugar (which is related to BP BTW), mega-dosing on fruit is not an option. And sadly, the most potassium-rich fruit are the highest in glycemic load....

The above comments may be inaccurate or misleading...For people with caloric needs up to 2200 calories/day, 4 servings of fruit are recommended...or in other words, perhaps a serving with each meal and one as a snack (instead of a cookie or a candy bar)...a serving of fruit can consist of 6 oz of juice or 1/2 c of fresh, frozen, or canned fruit.

As far as DASH and insulin levels, blood sugar and insulin levels were measured carefully and precisely in the DASH study (8,000+ participants), and the researchers found that those on the DASH diet had no differences in blood sugar or insulin levels as compared to the participants who were eating a typical American diet. Because the carbohydrates in DASH are complex carbohydrates, they are digested slowly causing gradual changes (versus abrupt changes) in blood sugar and insulin. Because of this, the researchers said that there was no reason to be concerned about DASH diet foods posing any kind of insulin-related risk to participants.

...Moreover, if one works and has a busy schedule, it is virtually impossible to eat like this over the long term, as preparing DASH friendly meals requires time that many people simply don't have. If you have to travel a lot on business, eat out, etc. you will have real problems.

Although the above comment may be the opinion of the poster, based on what I've read and based on my experience (and the experience of over 8000 people), this was not a problem. I've found the the deabilitating and/or life threatening side effects of medication were a problem, but not preparing a nutritious diet.

....Sadly, the food we eat today is far less nutritious then what our grandparents grew/harvested/raised/hunted. Supplements, as Weil and others who know this subject better than most argue, are vital to make sure people get ALL the nutrients they need.acp

I would question the accuracy of these statements. However, for the purpose of staying on topic, I will not address them here.

I would like to point out once again, that Dietary Approaches to Stop Hypertension (DASH) was the result of a major collaborative study, the diet was developed by a world-class team of doctors and nutritionists, and it has been proven to lower blood-pressure levels, and it is recommended by governmental agencies that study the heart, lungs, blood, and hypertension.

I would also like to say that the intention of my post, #14, was not to debate the DASH diet, but to point out that large, legitimate, highly regarded research studies were done by the world's leading hypertension specialists and they concluded that there is no proof that supplements work.

Bethsheba

bethsheba
09-21-2007, 11:13 AM
....Sadly, there is NOTHING that "consistently control's blood pressure,"...

Results of the DASH study show that the DASH diet consistently lowers blood pressure....it may not lower it enough to forego other lifestyle changes and/or medication, but it consistently lowers blood pressure.

...This board is filled with people with "resistant hypertension" whose BP did not respond to diet and/or exercise....

I disagree with this statement for many reasons, none of which I have the time to address now.

Bethsheba

acp44
09-21-2007, 11:17 AM
I would like to point out once again, that Dietary Approaches to Stop Hypertension (DASH) was the result of a major collaborative study, the diet was developed by a world-class team of doctors and nutritionists, and it has been proven to lower blood-pressure levels, and it is recommended by governmental agencies that study the heart, lungs, blood, and hypertension.

I would also like to say that the intention of my "oriignal post" was not to debate the DASH diet, but to point out that large, legitimate, high regarded studies were done by the world's leading hypertension specialists and they concluded that there is no proof that supplements work.

Bethsheba

"Proven" does not guarantee it will work for everyone, again, as many posts here testify. By all means try it first. But if it fails to work for you, don't get discouraged and conclude that you have no other options. Try and keep an open mind that there may be other options, including supplements and meds.

I will certainly look at the facts re DASH and insulin. For many people with blood sugar problems, 6-8 servings of grain-based products, regardless of whether they are "whole grain" or not, will elevate their blood sugar.

Please note that the DASH diet has also been modified recently (or at least this modification is being considered) to include more protein and fewer carbohydrates.

acp

bethsheba
09-22-2007, 05:34 PM
...Please note that the DASH diet has also been modified recently (or at least this modification is being considered) to include more protein and fewer carbohydrates.

acp

I addressed modifying the DASH diet in my post,
"The DASH diet...changes can improve it!!"

For those who haven't read the post I will simply say that by replacing some of the carbs with protein and monounstaturated fat, the triglycerides will drop, the LDL will rise, and bp will drop even further...all this without supplements!

Bethsheba

acp44
09-22-2007, 06:18 PM
I addressed modifying the DASH diet in my post,
"The DASH diet...changes can improve it!!"

For those who haven't read the post I will simply say that by replacing some of the carbs with protein and monounstaturated fat, the triglycerides will drop, the LDL will rise, and bp will drop even further...all this without supplements!

Bethsheba

Or it may not. 3 months on the DASH diet lowered my BP exactly 4 mm, from high 140s systolic to mid 140s, and there it stayed. The addition of supplements (controlling for everything else) brought it down to the mid 120s-130s, where it remains.

Happy to be a statistical outlier.

acp

flowergirl2day
09-22-2007, 06:19 PM
I'll add that anyone with a kidney disease should check with a doctor first before going on the DASH diet. It might not be suitable for people with GFR =<60.

FG

acp44
09-22-2007, 06:46 PM
Let me be perfectly clear (as old Richard Nixon used to say: I SUPPORT the DASH diet. I encourage anyone to go on it. It is probably the healthiest diet there is, and as someone who has worked as a chef, I found it very easy to create recipes from it.

What did it do for me? I lost weight, felt fantastic, and my already good blood cholesterol improved. It simply did not lower my BP significantly.

Now why might that have been? I did not use supplements OR drink any alcohol for 5 weeks on the diet, so that was not an issue. But rather, I suspect the following:

High BP is caused, essentially by three things:
1. Poor diet/exercise/lifestyle.
2. Arterial stiffness.
3. Stress/anxiety

DASH will work excellently on (1). It MAY affect (2), but that is the toughest cause of high BP to address. It will do little to (3), since nothing about the diet stops epineprhine and adrenalin surges. Stress-reactive BP is a brain-body connection issue in part, and far more complicated then something changing your eating habits can address.

acp

flowergirl2day
09-22-2007, 07:08 PM
DASH will work excellently on (1). It MAY affect (2), but that is the toughest cause of high BP to address

It won't work on 2. We need to start a thread about atherosclerosis and hypertension. The tiny tears in the arteries, caused by hypertension, are where all the trouble begins.

acp44
09-22-2007, 07:22 PM
It won't work on 2. We need to start a thread about atherosclerosis and hypertension. The tiny tears in the arteries, caused by hypertension, are where all the trouble begins.

I agree. Others have raised the issue of causes of BP as opposed to responses. Artery problems are the big kahuna of hypertension. I do think good diet can slow this process, possibly prevent it. But what to do when the damage is done? How to make damaged arteries healthy?

acp

tamu45
09-27-2007, 12:52 PM
Back to the supplements thread: a close of friend of mine who has had BP at 160/100 for years, has been on 5 meds, has tried diet and exercise, etc. has been "experimenting" with a new supplement that appears to affect neurotransmitters...spooky stuff to be sure. He reports that after 5 uses, his BP dropped 20+ points top number, 15+ points bottom number, and stayed there. I am going to subject myself to this as an experiment as well and I will report the results.

No, I do not encourage this anymore than the late Steve Irwin encouraged people to play with saltwater crocodiles. And yes I am aware of the possible risks. I first heard about this from a doctor with high BP in fact. So I will let all know what happens.

tamuprof45

flowergirl2day
09-27-2007, 02:44 PM
tamuprof,

You say you are aware of the risks of using one of these remedies.
I looked into purchasing a product, consisting of maybe 20 ingredients, guaranteed to reduce blood pressure. This is sold at a reputable health food store, and, of course, is very expensive.
I had the clerk photocopy the ingredients list and took it to my pharmacist. I too was on BP meds (five) without a satisfactory blood pressure control at the time. Anyway, the pharmacist told me that I could not take it, given the medications I was on. Just like the drugs, herbal products (so called 100&#37; natural, organic, etc.) affect our bodily chemistry, sometimes at the cellular level, and interact with medications. They also have side-effects. You might have a medical condition you might not be aware of and have a very unexpected reaction to this product.
I would recommend at least checking with your doctor first before using this remedy.
Did you know that garlic is known to reduce blood pressure? So much so that I was warned today not to overdo it. My friend's hubby, who's eaten a Mediterannean diet all his life, says it's all he uses for blood pressure control. He gets hypotensive and dizzy if he eats too much garlic. I know another guy who brought his BP down by eating a whole head of garlic every day (grrrrr) and was able to get off his BP meds completely. Of course, he has to eat it every day to keep his BP controlled. I opted for garlic supplements. They are also excellent for reducing inflammation.

flowergirl

tamu45
09-27-2007, 03:11 PM
tamuprof,

You say you are aware of the risks of using one of these remedies.
I looked into purchasing a product, consisting of maybe 20 ingredients, guaranteed to reduce blood pressure. This is sold at a reputable health food store, and, of course, is very expensive.
I had the clerk photocopy the ingredients list and took it to my pharmacist. I too was on BP meds (five) without a satisfactory blood pressure control at the time. Anyway, the pharmacist told me that I could not take it, given the medications I was on. Just like the drugs, herbal products (so called 100% natural, organic, etc.) affect our bodily chemistry, sometimes at the cellular level, and interact with medications. They also have side-effects. You might have a medical condition you might not be aware of and have a very unexpected reaction to this product.
I would recommend at least checking with your doctor first before using this remedy.
Did you know that garlic is known to reduce blood pressure? So much so that I was warned today not to overdo it. My friend's hubby, who's eaten a Mediterannean diet all his life, says it's all he uses for blood pressure control. He gets hypotensive and dizzy if he eats too much garlic. I know another guy who brought his BP down by eating a whole head of garlic every day (grrrrr) and was able to get off his BP meds completely. Of course, he has to eat it every day to keep his BP controlled. I opted for garlic supplements. They are also excellent for reducing inflammation.

flowergirl

Thanks for the concerned reply, but not to worry. I've told my doctor, he knows. I do know from research and from extensive personal experience that these things affect our chemistry. But then again, flaws and quirks and "mistakes" in our chemstry often cause the BP problems to begin with...the sympathetic gets out of balance with the parasympathetic, angiotensin gets messed up re our kidneys, etc. So I see it as (albeit risky) fighting fire with fire to some extent. At the very first notice of anything even remotely amiss, I will cease and desist...I test-drive everything I take meticulously actually.

As for garlic, its wonderful stuff...I cook with it at almost every meal, and eat the raw stuff in salads and I take capsules to boot. Little to no effect. That doe snot stop me, like you, from recommending it to everyone because it is great stuff, and works on lots of people like your hubby (lucky guy!)


tamuprof45

flowergirl2day
09-27-2007, 06:11 PM
I am so relieved to hear you checked with your doctor first. Of course, doing your own research prior to using any new drug or product is absolutely essential. The doctors don't know everything and can easily overlook a symptom or prescribe an unsuitable medication.

Good luck!

tamu45
09-27-2007, 08:49 PM
I am so relieved to hear you checked with your doctor first. Of course, doing your own research prior to using any new drug or product is absolutely essential. The doctors don't know everything and can easily overlook a symptom or prescribe an unsuitable medication.

Good luck!

Very true indeed. I am lucky to have a doctor who has patience with my supplement experiments. The fact that his BP is higher than mine makes me think he may be learning a few things from me as well. We all have to learn from each other, as we are all in this same nasty boat together! I may disagree with some of the opinions on this board, but I would never in a million years not read them and take them seriously.

tamuprof45

flowergirl2day
09-28-2007, 08:19 AM
You are lucky, indeed, to have such an open-minded doctor. I find the pharmacists here very anti-supplement and no help at all. My GP is like that, too. Quick to prescribe any pharmaceutical drug without hesitation. (I noticed that it is always one that's patented and expensive). When it comes to supplements, he does not care at all which ones his patients take. My other doctors have a list.
This doctor has high blood pressure too, though nothing like mine. He controls his easily with two meds. I think this can work against us, the patients, at times. There's no way he can compare himself to me healthwise in any way, yet he does, all the time. None of my complaints or problems are a big deal and therefore worth looking into. They are left for the others to deal with.
I get my supplement and nutritional information from several different sources. There's an excellent journal of clinical nutrition I often refer to. I find it extremely helpful.

flowergirl

tamu45
09-28-2007, 09:08 AM
My doctor's BP is higher than mine...mid-high 140s/80s, and he is not on meds yet. He might be following my own BP diary that I send him every couple weeks.

I often wonder about this...doctors can be too quick to prescribe meds, but maybe they are too slow to as well? Its tough to figure out what to do when you second-guess your doctor. A colleague of mine has a doctor at the same clinic who put him on atenalol immediately when his BP hit 132/80!

tamuprof45

P.S. I thought Canadian doctors were pretty pro-supplement...no?

mmvic
09-28-2007, 08:29 PM
tamuprof45, I can't remember if it was mentioned but magnesium has been shown to lower or control blood pressure in some people. You can search the forum for more information. Usually, the best results are with a soluble salt such as a citrate.

tamu45
09-29-2007, 08:30 AM
tamuprof45, I can't remember if it was mentioned but magnesium has been shown to lower or control blood pressure in some people. You can search the forum for more information. Usually, the best results are with a soluble salt such as a citrate.

I've been taking mag citrate for months actually...it does help with heart palpitations but I don't think its done much for my blood pressure. If you drink coffee and alcohol, even moderately, then you most definitely need to take a mag supplement, as but flush out more magnesium from your system than you can possibly imagine!

tamuprof45

flowergirl2day
11-03-2007, 08:06 PM
Hi, :)

I came across new information when reading a chapter about strokes in a book titled "Blended Medicine" this morning. It made me wonder how safe my daily dose of vitamin E was. Slightly concerned, I decided to ask a pharmacist about it.

High fat & high cholesterol diets contribute to the formation of free radicals, which damage the arteries in the brain (and elsewhere in the body). Antioxidants (found mostly in fruits & veggies) fight the free radicals and help prevent the damage they cause. Vitamin E is a very powerful antioxidant. It seems to lower the incidence of blood clots that trigger ischemic strokes. On the other hand, it may increase a risk of hemorrhagic stroke and one should always check with the doctor regarding its use.

I found this information about vitamin E increasing the risk of a stroke disturbing. That's exactly what a daily dose of aspirin does! It decreases the risk of one type of a stroke, while increasing the risk of another.

I take 800IU of vitamin E every day, mainly for its antioxidant properties. The recommended daily dose is 400-800IU. The pharmacist wanted to know which multivitamins I take. I picked up a bottle of Centrum Gold and handed it to her. After checking the label for vitamin E content she said I should take no more than 200IU a day. She also mentioned that recent studies (which I have not checked out yet) seem to suggest vitamin E is not be as beneficial as once thought.

flowergirl

tamu45
11-04-2007, 08:27 AM
Unfortunately a LOT of supplements that lower the incidence of one kind of stroke raise the incidence of the other. I have heard similar anecdotes about garlic, grapeseed, and coenzyme Q, and fish oil as well. I guess its a matter of seeing what type of stroke is in your family history and acting accordingly. For me its the hemmoragic kind, which is why I try and take supplements that keep arteries strong.

tamuprof45

flowergirl2day
11-04-2007, 09:10 AM
tamuprof,

It seems that one just can't win. I will have to look into this further. I am not stopping the vitamin E, unless there is compelling evidence that it is harmful in certain doses. You are absolutely right, we have to choose what and when to take. At times, I find making these decisions quite difficult without any professional guidance. Each individuals' situation is different. Some consideration must be given to the person's health status, existing medical issues, age, genetic makeup, etc. etc. I guess it is a matter of doing a lot of research, reviewing the options and weighing the potential risks and benefits of each prior to making any decision.
There's a history of heart disease, not stroke in my immediate family. I am at a very high risk for both so have to watch it. My parents and sisters all have/had high blood pressure, well controlled and not nearly as severe as mine.

flowergirl

tamu45
11-04-2007, 06:00 PM
In Europe and Asia, doctors routinely prescribe supplements in certain doses, and provide patients with info about interactions, when to take them etc. Because such things are not taken seriously by the American medical establishment, patients here are largely forced to do their own research about this, or just shrug and submit to the piling on of BP meds, which doctors of course don't hesitate to provide suggestions on.

I base my supplement recommendations and doses on the handful of DOCTORS on this country like Andrew Weil, Ray Sahelian, and Michael Murray, who actually research this stuff. But sadly they are far too few and far between.

tamuprof45

flowergirl2day
11-04-2007, 08:00 PM
Thanks for that comment, tamuprof.

In several European countries patients get reimbursed for the cost of alternative medicine products (as prescribed by their doctors). I can see the advantages of choosing these treatments over conventional ones (whenever the circumstances allow) - lower cost and few or no side effects. Their health care systems are very impressive. I watched a documentary about the health care in several European countries on one of our networks recently. There are unbelievably efficient systems in place in the countries shown. We have a lot to learn. :(

tamu45
11-05-2007, 10:05 AM
It is also a case of medical practicioners just being more open-minded, and knowledgeable about supplement alternatives...the pros, and the cons as well. The reason, I suspect, that so few really good medical studies on the effects and interactions of supplements are done over here is that there are no vested interests in doing so. Huge pharmaceutical companies don't really care.

Similarly, other important issues are ignored in dietary research, such as the fact that the vast majority of crops and produce grown in the U.S. are deficient in selenium, an element that may have BP lowering qualities.

tamuprof45

flowergirl2day
11-05-2007, 05:29 PM
Unfortunately a LOT of supplements that lower the incidence of one kind of stroke raise the incidence of the other. I have heard similar anecdotes about garlic, grapeseed, and coenzyme Q, and fish oil as well

I just read an article about anti-inflammatory foods & supplements in a Canadian Health magazine.
They say Omega3s are safe to take, up to 3grams (3,000mgs) a day. It is only when people take extremely high amounts of these that they have an increased risk of bleeding. I've known about the garlic & Omega 3s having an effect similar to aspirin on the platelets for some time now. I posted a question about their use with aspirin on the heart board some time ago. I had some concerns about their safety back then.
My supplements were reviewed and approved by a doctor as well as a dietician. I assume they won't do any harm.

flowergirl