I was curious for men on this board that suffer from Low T. Who knows about it besides you and the Dr's you have seen??? The only person I have told is my Wife.... I am curious if this is a good or bad thing? There is a stigma in our society about testosterone making you masculine or not... so I think that impedes men from talking freely about this and probably alot of women. Women IMO would not want to tell their friends that their husband cannot produce T as it would make him appear less of a man.... what do you think. Also do you think the opinion I shared, if you agree, is helping or hurting the progress of advances in medicine in this area....

thx...

I agree there is probably a stigma attached to it. In my case my wife knows everything and my parents know I have a pituitary disorder which is the truth but does not tell them it causes me to have low T. There is really no one else I would tell anyway except possibly my children when they are grown if I thought it is something they need to know in case they could get it too.

I do not routinely discuss my medical situation with any other people anyway.

I don't know why much of the medical profession is so stupid about this. My guess is that this is a recent phenomena as to how many men now have this. In the past the medical community has been more responsive to male health problems than female and there have been complaints about that. It is also possible many men who have suffered with this in the past have kept it to themselves, too embarrased or proud to talk to a doctor about it.

there was a big stigma about impotence but then viagra and senator bob dole came along. as the huge population of baby boomers ages low T will become better known and discussed.

My logical side says "it's a pituitary disorder and not my fault", but my male side is humiliated and angry at the universe for inflicting such an emasculating fate on me. I'm too damned ashamed to tell anyone but my wife, who has been tremendously supportive. I keep asking myself why couldn't I get a normal affliction. I exercise, eat well and take care of myself, yet here I am just past 40 and walking around with a 200 T level. The worst part is the dependency I am likely to suffer once I finally start a course of therapy. I utterly and with every fiber of my being despise being dependent on a goddamned shot every X days or weeks just to be a man. If I sound bitter, it's because I am. Harsh? Maybe. But I can't escape how I feel.

All of us who have this can fully understand why you feel the way you do. But you have to learn to accept the things you can not change. Don't let this make you bitter. The mind and body work together and once you get some proper treatment it will be easier to have a better outlook. There are lots of worse things you could have. At least this is not a terminal illness.

yea i dont like to talk about it.my ex and my parent's know.i was real strong and when i started to have these problems alot of my freinds where worry about me becuse i lost alot of weight thay thought that i was on drugs but i was not i guess seeing some one that's 6'4 and 240 go to 180 i could see why thay thought that. i just told them that i was sick .i still have some of my freinds ask i just tell them that i had digestive problems which is true.i was very active and out going and have changed my life alot.so i dont see my friends as much.i'm sure that if this was killing us that the dr would be working on fixing it.if you have a lady that sticks by you are lucky.at my age that's a hard thing to find i dont think that my ex in to it at all i cant blam her. 421

All of us who have this can fully understand why you feel the way you do. But you have to learn to accept the things you can not change. Don't let this make you bitter. The mind and body work together and once you get some proper treatment it will be easier to have a better outlook. There are lots of worse things you could have. At least this is not a terminal illness.

Yes, I know this is a bit melodramatic, but I view hypogonadism as the end of my being as man as I knew and understood the term to be. There are times I'd rather deal with something others may view as more "serious". At least those illnesses are not so damned humiliating.

It's the dependency that gets to me. I DESPISE being depedent on anything, especially something so fundamental to my sense of self and self worth. If my wife wasn't here with me and so supportive this journey would be infinitely worse. On the other hand, now that I have nothing to lose maybe I should try steroids and get huge. Although I am (99%) kidding, the thought has crossed my mind......

I do understand why men don't want to tell people, but it has nothing to do with your manhood. IM 43 years old and I found out just recently that my total T is 48. I've looked all over this board and can't find anyone who has a lower number, which IM not proud of. My body is broken. I have to get more tests. IM injecting 200mg bi-weekly and hope once all the tests are in (MRI, CATSCAN, Bloodwork ect.) then I'll know which way I have to go. I don't talk about this at the water cooler at work but I don't talk about my Glucose levels. I don't feel ashamed, its nothing any of us has done wrong. Having low T is a medical condition which needs to be corrected, we may have a small growth on our Pituitary gland which needs to be remove or something else? We wish our Testosterone was in normal range but it isn't. Just like someone with high or low sugar. Low T does not make me less manly. No one knows by looking at me that my T level is 48. Relax and do what you have to do.

I do understand why men don't want to tell people, but it has nothing to do with your manhood. IM 43 years old and I found out just recently that my total T is 48. I've looked all over this board and can't find anyone who has a lower number, which IM not proud of. My body is broken. I have to get more tests. IM injecting 200mg bi-weekly and hope once all the tests are in (MRI, CATSCAN, Bloodwork ect.) then I'll know which way I have to go. I don't talk about this at the water cooler at work but I don't talk about my Glucose levels. I don't feel ashamed, its nothing any of us has done wrong. Having low T is a medical condition which needs to be corrected, we may have a small growth on our Pituitary gland which needs to be remove or something else? We wish our Testosterone was in normal range but it isn't. Just like someone with high or low sugar. Low T does not make me less manly. No one knows by looking at me that my T level is 48. Relax and do what you have to do.


My problem is my emotional side. I have rather strong feelings as to what I should be. This said, I am still seeking treatment as I understand that doing nothing is worse. However, I am not just going with whomever I stumble across. I've searched high and low and am finally set to see Dr. Shippen in about a month. He is my last, best hope as local doctors have proven singularly useless. All they want to do is slap an Androgel band aid on the problem and don't GAS that such shuts one down. Permanently. If I have to take something I want to preserve what remaining function I have. I am very concerned that I could become dependent on something and have it's supply cut off thus leaving me screwed.

Before I forget- Are you sure you want to take T while still testing? Such will screw up the bloodwork.

Kipa, I agree with you on the way you look at this whole thing. I don't talk about my other health problems with anyone either and this is not our fault. But I can really understand Anyman's point. When I was on androgel without HCG my testicles became soft and small and would like to go up inside my body. I would often feel like they were completely gone because I could not feel them at all. This can have a depressing and immasculating effect even if you know it should not matter.

Also, Anyman is right about your testing, it's best to run the bloodwork before starting any T replacement. If on shots it can take a month or two to get all out of your system. Also I would say one shot every 2 weeks is not often enough. You should be on weekly or twice a week shots and giving them to yourself. I assume you are doing bi-weekly because you have to go to the doctors office for the shot? The problem with this is it runs your T level too high after the shot and too low before the next shot. Also when it is too high it makes your estradiol too high which can be dangerous.

Ok, but how about this scenario!!! You have to leave work early to get your T shot every week, or two or twice a month,whatever. What do you tell your boss or co workers so they do not think you are a slacker???? Not the truth I am sure!!! BUT if you where diabetic and needed to leave for dialysis I bet most of us would tell the truth!!! Why!! becuase people would have a degree of sympathy for you and be understanding. Low T, your coworkers, esp, male would be quite the opposite of understanding and give you crap about it...or they would be ignorant and think you where taking steriods like Barry Bonds so you could kick butt at the next company picnic in the sack races... :)....
Face it that it is embarasing to talk about...but is that holding back advances in research becuase of that stigma...

thx...

You're right, it is embarrasing and I would not tell the truth in those circumstances. I give my own shots so nothing like that ever comes up but I see your point. I don't know if this is holding back research or not but it is a good point to make. To compound it I think many men with this problem don't even go to the doctor at all so the medical profession has no idea how many men really suffer with it.

Hayfarmer,

You are absolutly correct. If more men talked about it, then don't you think that would make more men who suffer from it and do nothing about it a little more comfortable about talking to their Dr??? I am being the devils advocate of course becuase I am embarrased to talk about it. From the first time I had symptoms it took me about 3 years to go to the Dr... that was also becuase of Insurance problems but the main reason was I was embarrased to call the office and say "Hi I feel like crap and cannot maintain an erection, can you help???"

thx...

I had it gradually get worse over about a 2 year period before I went to the doctor. Once I decided something was wrong with me I went right in though. I really thought it was age, or one to many beers or whatever for a long time. Finally I realized this isn't right. The first doctor I went to was a urologist and they don't ask why you are coming in (not that I remember anyway) and he talked to me first before any nurse asked why I was there. I don't know if talking about it would help get more research going. I think if more men who had it got diagnosed that would help. Maybe someone famous has to talk about it or be diagnosed publicly like Ronald Reagan did with prostate problems.

I am increasingly convinced that this problem is growing at an accelerating rate.

Look around- Girls are hitting puberty at 10 and 11 (my oldest daughter just turned 9 and is exhibiting early signs of puberty). When I was a kid 13 was the norm. Fewer boys are being born, or so I've read. And, I've seen various articles noting decreases in sperm and T levels over the years.

I feel this issue is only going to get worse and that we ourselves are the cause. Whether it's hormones in our food, an environmental factor or something else I do not know. For me I noticed the biggest difference when after being on Paxil for a year and then Welbutrin for about a month. The W/B caused me to go totally limp in a matter of weeks. I still suffer the effects, although things are somewhat better.

I have no idea if the Paxil & W/B were prescribed for what I only now realize is low T or if they caused the problem. I may never know, but I'd like to find out. I'll be REALLY pissed if damned drugs touted as "safe" had something to do with it. Seems nobody thought to check for low T except me. On a hunch I asked my GP for a test and then and there my odyssey started.

Many times I'd rather get hit by a bus then deal with this. But, I still want to live and be a part of my kids' lives. As much as a despise dependency I have little choice. My app't w/ Dr. Shippen is in less than a month.

As an aside, I ask HF how he came to be aware of his issue. How did you stumble across Dr. Shippen? More importantly, how are you doing now? DO you truly feel better, both mentally and physically?

I started to become aware when we were trying to have our second child. My wife had trouble getting pregnant the second time. When she would hit peak fertility I had to be able to perform at a moments notice....once in the middle of a football game with friends downstairs watching it! Anyway while this would never have been a problem before I started noticing it was not so easy anymore. Gradually over the next 2 years I noticed more and more often it would be difficult to get an erection and started to realize my libido was way down.

So I did some reading and discovered on my own I must have low T. The key thing I read that clued me in was that if you are not getting erections at night anymore then something is wrong. Well I wasn't but I hadn't really noticed till I read that. I found Dr. Shippen on another board by reading posts from another patient of his.

I truly do feel much better most of the time. I never had depression from it. My effects were mostly sexual. That is a lot better. I didn't do that great on the androgel I was on for 4 years. Sometimes I would be ok but I would have weeks in a row with no libido and hormone related ED. I finally had enough of it and made an appointment with Dr. Shippen and am glad I did. I only very rarely have ED now and I feel more like a man now that my testicles are working again and are back to an almost normal size and they do not try to crawl up inside my body anymore. Anyman, you will feel much better mentally once you get on the right treatment......as well as physically.

plus some psych ones. I am PO'd much of the time and feel irritated way too often. Plus, I notice a decrease in performance at the gym and a 15lb weight gain --all around the middle ( I am now 6' and about 215). Plus, my stamina is down, which irritates me to no end.

I am hoping that Shippen is all he is said to be. On another board I've gotten substantial feedback that my very low SHBG of 11 may indicate a problem w/ insulin resistance, which he is said to likely latch upon first w/o necessarily going to TRT. Maybe if I fix that other things may fall into place.

It is possible insulin could be an issue. My mother has type 2 diabetes. I, however, generally eat rather well and exercise regularly. Who knows-maybe all the exercise, etc stopped this from starting far earlier.

In any event, all this is giving me fits. Seems like I've spent most nights for the past several months hunched over the computer researching one thing or another. I very much look forward to what the good doctor has to say and will share what happens.

Thanks again for taking the time to post and help. You da man!

Thanks for the compliments Anyman. You will not be disappointed with Shippen. I am in the same boat as you with the low SHBG with mine at 17. Also I have high triglycerides and blood glucose between 100 and 110. I think I may contribute to the other board too as farmerjohn. I very much look forward to hearing how your apt with Shippen goes. Just keep in mind it may take 6 months or more for him to get you on a plan that works for you. But things will finally begin to happen.

i think that this is strange that a alot of us have high triglycerides.i dont know much about this.i thoght that it fatty foods that made this happen but i've been reading about carb's causeing this i dont eat much sweets but what can i do to lower them ????i think that mine are around 250 on most of the test that i have had. i had to find out what was going on with me i whent to my gp and told him that i was haveing ed and he told me that it was in my head and about a year later i went to a urologist and told him that i might have low-t and he said that he did'nt think that i did and i told him that i need to get this test and then he called me and said that it was at 211 and asked if i would like to try androgel and i did i thought that would fix the problem.if i had not had the test done i would still think that it was in my head at least i have a little bit of a idea of what's going on. i love haveing sex before this so i thought that it was strange that some how that my mind did'nt:dizzy: HAYFARMER,you said something about trt shrinking the pienis to and that the hcg would stop this how do's that work.i did notices that when i was on the andorgel it seemed like the end has been shrinking and i thought that it might have been from the low t.thx 421

I think what I said was if you are on T replacement it can shrink your testicles because unless you also take HCG your testicles will shut down and shrink. THis is because your hypothalmus in the brain senses the T is high enough (due to T replacement) and stops sending GnRH to the pituitary (in the brain) which tells the pituitary to send more LH which tells the testicles to make T. Without the LH (and FSH) the testicles stop working (shut down) and shink. The HCG is very similar to LH so it prevents all this from happening. For some men depending on what their problem is HCG may be all they need to resolve the problem....they may not need any T replacement at all. They just need the HCG to replace the LH their body is unable to produce to tell the testicles to make enough T.

That said, low T can make your erections much weaker and also make your penis smaller when flacid.

HAYFARMER,i know that you said that you had been on trt for 4 years and than you started the hcg and i think that you said that 500ui three times a week.when you started on the hcg where you on a higher dose??i read some thing some where about it being higher at first when someone that has been on trt for a while.i might have read hcg thing about the pienis some whare ouse sorry about that.421

hayfarmer,i was wrong it was something that jinl posted on the hormone board about the hcg and the pieins.421

My starting dose of HCG was 300 iu three times a week. We kept increasing dose until we got to 500 iu daily. When that did not work after a while we decided I needed T shots in addition to the HCG. Now I am on 80 mg Tcyp per week plus 400 iu HCG for the 4 days prior to the HCG shot.

It may be that a high dose of HCG initially would have jolted my testicles into working but it's not something my doc tried and I did not question him. I may ask him if a course of HMG might get them going. I have read it can incrase size dramatically.

i think that i read the high hgc on a bodybuilding thread but thay where doing ciycles of t and i know that the androgel that i was on was'nt any thing like what thay are doing.will thatS good to know that your dr started you on the hgc first i hope that i can get mine to go that route.do YOU have a idea what hmg cost?421

I don't know what HMG costs but it is very expensive and usually is only used when fertility is the primary concern. I would go with HCG to begin with.....you can get a 10,000 iu bottle of that for about $45.