Followed good advice by friends such as getting a Family Medical Leave set up where I work so I could be free to attend my daughters doctor visits with her or be available for any medical emergency, became Power of Attorney for her health and money issues so we can be a part of the process to help with my daughters recovery after her P doc said she was bipolar II, etc. Well last night she relapsed and started drinking to much with her girlfriends after her and her boyfriend of 2 years broke up, later she called her x-boyfriend and said she took Lamitcal (overdose)??? Boyfriend called me, I called my life mate and he rush to her and took her to the local ER, I left work and met them there.
My power of attorney didn't help me, while I was filling out paperwork the charge nurse questioned her while she was drunk and petitioned her as being unsafe to herself. After she sober up, she didn't remember the conversation with the charge nurse, or what she even said. But because of those few moments with the charge nurse (that we were not part of ) "that so called petition" to have her commited couldn't be changed. They moved her to a hospital that had Mental Health section because our local hospital doesn't have a mental health section. Now she sits in the Mental health ward, where they also told me my power of attorney in the mental health means nothing. We were told to leave, I would have to be guardian to be a part of her recovery since she is 23. Now we wait till Monday, but being there she gets more depressed, so the staff told her if she doesn't snap out of it, the more she crys the longer she will have to stay. I could maybe understand better if this was a second attempt to hurt herself but it was her first. In the past she has drank while taking meds which is bad enough, but from what I have been told many bipolar self medicate them selves with drugs or drinking while taking meds. In the past year no one has dealt with her self medicating till two months ago when she got a second DUI. Now I have someone else dealing with the drug abuse, trying to get her clean, so the meds may work.
We spent 11 hours in the local ER Saturday, staff not communicating what is going on, couldn't get information about blood alcohol level or if she really took any pills or was it (attention). Since it was a Saturday couldn't talk with her P-doc to get any help or information what an experience. When I went to her place 19 hrs later, she counted out 17 pills as if she was going to take them and they were still sitting on her counter. Because she gets her meds on-line her Lamitcal was about ready to run out she only had 27 total, meaning only a few were missing.
While we were in the ER, another young 18 year old was brought into the ER for the same thing, overdose on Lamitcal, drinking, and drugs. Because of her age her parents had no rights either, and the charge nurse had to transport their daughter for the same reason, this "petition" can't be changed once the charge nurse says "you are a threat to yourself." Not even if you are power of attorney for your loved one. Also when we dropped off clothing that wasn't harmful to her health, the way the staff and security treat parents should be with a little respect. My daughter called me after 9 PM and she still hasn't been given any of her clothes or under garments. The police when she got a DUI took much better care of her emotional needs and communicated with us as parents much better. That first floor ward was mostly young, scared kids, praying for help.
Well thank you for allowing me to vent some, I can't sleep, looking forward to my hour on Sunday when we are allowed to see our daughter.
If anyone has suggestions, please help. I don't understand -- if you are bipolar, you don't make "good choices", you need help. Then when you fill out all the paper work, thinking "Wow" now I can help. YOU STILL CAN'T
Namaste
Shoo57

Hi Shoo57,
My son is BP and now 16 1/2. When he was suicidal, I took him to ER at age 13, they transported him for a psy eval hospital. only 1 in philadelphia for 1 million children. Anyway he was so good at munipulation, he was not put in a hospital, only partial with meds. I was new at BP. Well I had to resign from my job and take care of him full time. I was scared he would hurt himself or my daughter. it took over year to get meds right and it is still a day by day process with this illness.
After reading your post, I am thanking God your daughter is alive. In my state it is harder to commit for help then not. Last summer he had homicidal ideation and hurt his friend and was put in hospital for 2 weeks, it killed me. but as soon as he dont get his own way, he can be very mean. His meds help but he is still knows how to get what he wants. Right now he is living at his Dad's and I miss him so much. My ex is BP no meds and can be quite nasty. We have been apart and divorced for over 9yrs, so I am very scared. If your daughter is in a mental health ward, she should be getting meds and evals and group therapy. My son went nuts, when he was in the psy hospital last summer. Now in my state of PA my son on disability for BP untill he 18years old but he still can make his own medical decisions since 14years old. The only time I can make decisions is when he rushed to hospital or in a psy hospital. The 1st time my son was 13, we were there for 27hours. But he is alive today and I dont regret it. But also hardest thing to do, it is your child.
Yes BP's make bad choices but meds are only part and docs,pdocs are part, my son has to do his part too.
Be Strong, Thank God she Alive and Well, and Didnt hurt herself or anyone else.
My Prays to you and your partner....
Mslainie

16 is different than 23 or even 18..they are considered adults with rights..even if they are messing up. its scares me to death that these kids my own included think nothing of drinking when they are on these kinda drugs..what are they all trying to do to themselves? it is amazing, where are the brains?

Hello Shoo,

You've just experienced one of the most frustrating aspects of being the mom of a bipolar child over the age of 17. And you'd better get used to it because it is impossible to be involved in any aspects of your child's medical care unless the child has signed all the appropriate papers.

Hopefully this experience will have a lasting impact on your daughter and she will decide that she never ever wants to have to return to that hospital, or go through that again.

Policies and laws vary quite a bit from state to state regarding commital. Do you know if they knew she has been diagnosed with BPII when they admitted her? After I reread what you wrote about telling her she'd stay longer if she continued to cry, it made me wonder if they were aware of this?

Please post again and let us know how the visit went and what you were able to find out. When will you be able to bring her home?

xxxTsohl

Thank You,
Yes, while filling out the paper work, I told the hospital that we have power of attorney (which meant nothing to them).
Also yes, we told them she was bipolar. but the charge nurse petitioned to have her evaluated without us being present, my understanding is the power of attorney should of held up at the local hospital anyway, that it was a legal document. Also why wouldn't it work in a mental hospital, why guardian ship necessary??? Sorry many question, lot to learn.
Please what papers, I want to make sure I have everything covered since the power of attorney was ignored. Should I apply for guardianship and how, is that court time to ask a judge???
Namaste
Shoo

Hello Shoo,

I don't have answers to your very good questions, but it has motivated me to look into this whole situation. I believe what you need to have your daughter draw up and sign is a document called an "Advanced Psychiatric Directive." However this may not be a recognized legal document in your state either. I think you could find out the information you need by calling the Michigan Protection and Advocacy Service at 800-288-5923. I believe they can tell you what documents you would need. If not, I would hope they could put you in touch with someone who could.

Many people have a mistaken notion of what a POA can and cannot do. First the docments vary quite a bit from state to state. In most states there are two: one for healthcare decisions and one for financial decisions. The medical POA was designed for those who are in such a state that they can no longer make healthcare decisions for themselves -- like when in a coma or for those who have Alzheimer's disease. Mental illness is a gray area. If the person is determined to be a danger to him or herself, s/he can be held for observation pretty much regardless of what documents have been signed. I imagine this is what happened in your daughter's case.

Hope this helps a little bit. What is happening with your daughter now?

Tsohl:wave:

Thank You
That was helpful, I pick up my daughter and after that experience she is calling about an out-patient sub-stance abuse program. Hopefully they will help with the self-medicating issue. The p-doc took her off lamictal for now.
Actually I'm looking also for another p-doc, hopefully female who understands our hormones better. I read in Medline Plus the article about "Antidepressants may not help fight bipolar disorder." Also that women shouldn't take them during the 14 days of their cycle, antidepressants should be taken only the 7 days before and 7 days after. My daughter is taking 150 mg. of Effexor XR.
So much to learn in a crash course of how to be legally proactive in a love ones life. Parents pay the bills, but once they cross the 18 years of age, I still pay, but I have no say in any health care issues nor can I be of service.
Again Thank You for your help.
Shoo

Hello Ms Shoo,

I hear ya. We went through a similar situation with our son and I was just in shock at how we were treated and ignored and had NO rights. I learned the hard way, too. Others are starting to realize that the HIPAA laws work ok for some things but mental illness is not necessarily one of them. This came to light a bit with the coverage of the Virginia Tech shootings.

Effexor is a terrible drug for individuals with BP. Our son's pdoc is a believer in treating for the diagnosis of BP rather than treating a bunch of symptoms. He uses mood stabilizers, in lower dosage combinations to achieve stability in his patients. The thinking as I understand it is if the patient is free from the episodes of depression, mania and/or hypomania ("stable") s/he will not have the symptoms such as feeling depresed, anxious, irritable, etc. My son takes lithium, tegretol and lamictal and has been doing wonderfully for over 2 years. We went through 3 other pdocs and NUMEROUS other meds before finding this pdoc. He was the only one who could get my son's rapid-cycling BP under control.

My son also had substance abuse problems -- was self medicating with pot well before he went to a pdoc and found out his diagnosis. Your daughter will have a very difficult time achieving stability if she continues to drink. The meds cannot work properly with alcohol in her system. Alcohol also intensifies the moods, particularly depression.

Are you familiar with NAMI? I would suggest you look into it. If you're not familiar with it, it is a national group that has state and local chapters that basically advocate for the mentally ill. They offer educational classes, support groups and are a wonderful resource for referrals and information about a variety of issues like insurance, state laws, etc. I thought about mentioning them earlier regarding your daughter's situation. Check out their website to learn more: www.NAMI.org.

Write back if you have any questions about my experience with our son, or about NAMI, or....!

:wave: Tsohl

Hi, Tsohl
Very grateful for sharing--- I have now downloaded the Michigan Advance Directive for Mental Health Care along with the one Psychiatric Advance Directive from the Bazelon Center Mental Health Law, Washington D.C. which had more detail data than the first one I downloaded.
Also the Michigan Protection and Advocacy Service has a website that I'm looking forward to check out.
One piece of information that really helped me was filling out the paper work where I'm employed at "The Family Medical Leave". With that I'm allowed to tend monthly medical reviews and family emergencies that fall on days I'm scheduled to work without those absences going against my work record. It just has to be update yearly.
The night in the ER, I befriended another Mom, who just found out she had no longer a say about her daughter who just turned 18. Our daughters became friends this past weekend. Hope they will be able to help each other.
I will be passing on all that I can learn with her mom also.
Wondering is there a place on-line like this where Mothers of adult children can "chat" so to speak when they are on-line. I can understand young adults who are self supporting, working, out of the house dependent only on themselves.
But it is still overwhemling to me that a parent who totally supports their young adult children can have "NO" say when they need guidance the most, what an eye opener!!!!!!!!!!
Namaste
Shoo57

Hello Shoo,

I personally don't know of any sites, but it is against the rules to mention other websites anyway. Maybe just run a search and see what you can find. On this board we have a thread called "Our Bipolar Kids" with a couple of us that have kids ove 21 and several other "regulars" with late teens, but under 18. You're more than welcome to check in there...but it isn't exactly "chatting." You could also call your local NAMI to see if there might be a support group for that particular age group.

This has been a problem since most of the mental health laws were changed in the 70s by well-meaning folks who didn't think things through!! This is a big issue on college campuses as well, where you can have a suicidal child and not even be aware of a hospitalization.

It sounds like your daughter is willing to have you participate in her care. Is that correct? Does she live on her own? My son is 25 and I have never met any of the pdocs he has gone to during the past 4 years. He checked himself into a psych. hospital a bit over 2 years ago -- he rode with a friend and we followed in our car. She went in with him for the intake interview; we sat. As a matter of fact, that's all we did. They wouldn't tell us ANYTHING. Luckily, the friend came out and told us what was going on so we had some idea whether we should even hang around or not. When he checked himself back out 27 hours later, I went to pick him up and they did let me sit with him as they went through the discharge process. It was this experience that made me realize that we had NO rights.

Glad you found those forms on the Internet. Be sure to check with some authority to find out if they will have any legal standing.

How is your daughter by today?

I am happy to chat with you on this board. I am a bit further down the road than you -- have been through some crises and lived to tell about it and now have a son who has been stable and well for over 2 years...so could maybe help you with some of the issues.

Hang in there. It does get better.
:wave: Tsohl