There are a fair few threads mentioning Red Yeast Rice (RYR) on this board, with members still not knowing what RYR is.
Here is a little info.

Red yeast rice is prepared by using Monascus purpureus (fungus) fermented with rice. Preparation records exist, dating back to the ancient Ming Dynasty period. (1368 to 1644).

The extracts from RYR contain starch, sterols, isoflavones, and monounsaturated fatty acids. Depending on the Monascus strains used and fermentation conditions, it may contain polyketides called monacolins. One of these monacolins is named 'Monacolin K', known as lovastatin, typically 0.2% per 5 mg as compared to 20–40 mg of the drug lovastatin.

There are many strains of RYR which have been around for centuries, including the Xuezhikang and Zhibituo strains which contain added herbs, being the two most medically potent forms known in china. (Xuezhikang has been proven to reduce total cholesterol by a staggering 44% and LDL-C by 27%). All quality controlled dietry seasoning chinese red yeast rice preparations (Monascus Purpureus Went strain) contain at least 10 monacolins, the actions of which when combined reduce hyperlipidemia on par with the weaker statins.
Scientists today still do not fully understand how the weaker Monacolins, sterols and isoflavones interact to produce very reasonable reductions of cholesterol levels, as observed in many head to head studies with statins.

One of the unwanted products of RYR if not prepared under controlled conditions is a potentially toxic fermentation product called citrinin. When purchasing Red Yeast Rice, buy a brand that is guaranteed free of Citrinin.
You will be wasting your money if you do not purchase a brand of RYR that does not state that it is of a standardized formula containing a minimum 1.5% total monacolins.

Out of the thousands of participants of numerous controlled RYR studies, only one reported muscle problems, and this could be that that person was also taking prescribed medication during the course of that particular study.
Common side effects are dizziness, low appetite, nausea, stomach-ache and diarrhoea.

For info, Hypocol, manufactured by several companies in Singapore and sold throughout Asia, New Zealand, Norway and Italy (Lipolysar), is the asian brand name for Cholestin. (The brand used in several of these studies.)


You know all, I keep asking myself, what came first. The Ming Dynasty period or the period of the pharmaceutical company?

I would argue that Lovastatin is a Monacolin K, and a synthetic version at that, and that RYR does not contain Lovastatin, but Monacolin K.

I hope this info has been a little informative.

nice info. Note in the US, it is ILLEGAL to quote the concentration of Monaconlin K. And no, you're not wasting your money buying other name brands since almost all the reputable manufacturers are USP standardized in the US. FYI, I don't trust Hypocol (made in China and not Singapore from my info) any more than any pharma company and they're pricey for what you get. That's why I recommend trying a product ,whatever the brand, and testing your TC and lipids after a reasonable period.:D For the more adventuresome, it's fairly easy to import standardized ??? RYR in 20 kg bags or in capsules from China.

mmvic,

I stand, maybe, a little corrected.

HypoCol (pure strain red yeast rice) is an invention of the University of Peking, and is manufactured and distributed by Wearnes Biotech & Medicals (1998) Pte (Singapore) Ltd.

WBL- Peking University Biotech Co., Ltd. (WPU) is a joint venture enterprise between the Peking University of China, Beijing Enterprises and the multi-national Singapore company, WBL Corporation Ltd.

The info about Hypocol was to inform the readers of this board that Cholestin and Hypocol is one of the same product in a different box.
As Cholestin was withdrawn from the US shelves, I believe in mid 1990's, following very succussful studies, and Hypocol has just recently completed a favorable study in Norway, I would say this product is trustworthy, free from Citrinin, and contains the full ten Monacolins which NO commercial RYR preparation manufactured in the US contains. OK it's expensive....but it works, and it does not produce the side effects of a Statin drug.

Please remember that for all commercially manufactured RYR extracts, the extract MUST contain, not just the Monacolin K content, but the full compliment of All the Monacalins, plus sterols and isoflavones.

No matter what brand of RYR you purchase, it MUST be free from the by product Citrinin, and only then is it safe to consume.

I will say again, the TOTAL monacolins must be standardized to a minimum of 1.5%......Not the Monacolin K content. I believe the most potent on the market in the US at the moment is Nature's Plus RYR which is Citrinin free, contains 1.7% (10.2 mgs) total monacolins at a dose of a 600mg capsule and has the added benefit of being an extended release formula.
Even this product does not contain the full ten monacolins.
Many RYR products manufactured in the US only contain 1.2% which is virtually useless and a waste of money. (These products are also sold over here in Wales.)

What is USP standardized in the US, when it comes to the manufacturing process of Red Yeast Rice please?

USP is US Pharmacopeia and is an analytical organization that confirms analysis of supplements and OTC medications. Only higher quality providers tend to be USP listed.

I use some of the other RYR products (domestic and Chinese sourced) and they work just fine -Hypocol and Cholestin are not the only varieties that work well from personal experience. Studies by UCLA confirmed that Cholestin plus a number of other RYR products worked well. That is why Merck had the FDA try to ban RYR.

None of these are inventions as such, the Chinese just standardardized the fermentation process and yeast varieties more. There are more technical suppliers in China that manufacture grades with standardized lovastatin and monaconlins than you can shake a stick at. I've been at places where you can buy capsules, tablets, rice or powder in 20 kg plus bags at cheap prices with confimed analyses. I'd rather buy local in the US thanks.

The simple food grades also work, remember this is where all this started after all since RYR has been used for medicinal purposes for centuries. It's great for all of us to have some choices rather than just statins.:D

Remember though, people and situations are different. RYR might be a wise idea for someone who has had difficulty with the stronger statins and it might be a wise idea as a supplement for someone with few risk factors other than a slightly askew set of lipid readings.

BUT, some of us are way beyond that and really NEED a strong statin. I for one, had been getting ever increasing totoal cholesterol sreening readinds that started at 230 and gradually slif up to near 270. Nothing to panic about until I got my first COMPLETE panel that showed a 268 total cholesterol and an HDL of 28...that's a ratio of 9.6. The ever increasing bouts with angina started soon after. Fortunately for me, that was just about the time that Lipitor (atorvastain) was introduced...it worked WONDERS on my numbers. I had one stent done, never had the heart attack, and I think my cardiac circualtion is better now than it was in 1995.

My current ratio of TC/HDL is around 3.

So, more power to them that can get by with RYR but for many of us it isn't a sensible option. I'd need several of mmvics 20 kg. bags.:jester:

mmvic,

"There are more technical suppliers in China that manufacture grades with standardized lovastatin and monaconlins than you can shake a stick at."

Lovastatin is a Monacolin, so is one and the same.

"Hypocol and Cholestin are not the only varieties that work well from personal experience."


You said earlier that you did not trust Hypocol, but have used it. Why not trust it, if it worked well?

I agree, it's good to have a very effective alternative, but the Red yeast rice dietary supplement as found in your 20kgs sacks and your 600mg capsules are not half as good as the real McCoy - Xuezhikang RYR.

Have you tried the Xuezhikang RYR capsules/powder yet?
It contains extracts from fermented Monascus purpureus rice, Fructus Crataegi, Radix Salviae miltiorrhizae, Rhizoma Curcumae longae, Radix Rhizoma rhei.
1.2 g/day (contains 10 mg monacolin-K (lovastatin)) producing 19-44% drop of TC measured against low-high base levels of TC of participating subjects, along with a 36-44% drop of TG's and a 27-30% drop of LDL-C. - Puts the 'off the shelf" stuff to shame.

Quite impressive, even when compared against a low to medium dose of Lipitor, and without the destructive side effects!

Lenin,

Your TC was initially high, but not dangerously high, however the HDL, well, enough said, now I know why you take the Niacin.
My Welsh hat has been raised to you for achieving a success story. (Now it's on my head again).
However, putting the shoe on the other foot (welsh clog) there are many who cannot tolerate statins like you can, hence these Cholesterol threads.;)

I am close to having to take a statin due to trying everything else (i.e. restricted diet, exercise, supplements, etc.) first. I think my boderline high numbers are due to my genes and we all know there is not alot we can do about that. I want to go the RYR way first but how can I be sure that the
Xuezhikang RYR you speak of is genuine, considering it is coming from a largely unregulated country? Secondly how does one even purchase the Xuezhikang RYR, directly from China?

"Quite impressive, even when compared against a low to medium dose of Lipitor, and without the destructive side effects! "

you state above without the destructive side effects. If the Chinese RYR is basically a statin (lovastatin) wouldn't that still cause side effects?

you state above without the destructive side effects. If the Chinese RYR is basically a statin (lovastatin) wouldn't that still cause side effects?

Hi Mr. Detail,

The destructive side effects I was referring to was rhabdomyolysis, which is the rapid breakdown of skeletal muscle tissue due to traumatic injury, either physically or chemically.

My research on this particular product (RYR) led me to information identifying all unique completed documented studies from around the world, which now stands at a total of 93. Of these 93 totally unique studies, the average participants per trial was 103. (28 to 450 participants per trial.) Giving a figure of 9579 .

There were NO reported development of rhabdomyolysis directly related to the intake of RYR during or following any of these trials. However, many papers that I have read advise that CoEnzyme Q10 also be supplemented, because of that dreaded word, Lovastatin.

My wife, :) takes 100mg/d of pure Japanese Ubiquinone, (COq10) of which 90% is converted into its “active” antioxidant form, Ubiquinol. But that's another story and also for an unrelated ailment, but it appears to do it's job well.

Mr Detail, I have read many of your posts and know how you feel about certain imported goods.
All I can say is that China for one, is now the world's largest manufacturing country. To sell their products, in this case Red Yeast Rice, rigorous quality control procedures are followed. They need to sell quality, as does every country, or their markets will crumble.

As for importing/purchasing Xuezhikang, I'm afraid I cannot help you. The rules for importing and selling this product differs greatly in the United Kingdom from those of the US of A.

My advice to you would be to fully research Xuezhikang yourself. Once satisfied that it would be of benefit, research the Xuezhikang manufacturers of China who are prepared to export, (Should be no problem), and take it from there.

Good luck. Let me know how you get on.

Thank you for your detailed response. I too have read about the absolute need to complement any statin or RYR with CoQ10. I will definitely follow that path when necessary.

One more question. I still do not understand the difference between Big Pharma's Mevacor (lovastatin) and RYR (lovastatin) other than the fact that one is man-made chemically produced and the other is naturally occuring.
If they both contain lovastatin, then how can Mevacor produce rhabdomyolysis and Xuezhikang RYR not?

Mr.Detail,

Though the incidence of rhabdomyolysis is vanishingly small, it can be caused by both lovastatin AND RYR.
Any list of side effects ffor RYR clearly mentions rhabdo (and joint pain, liver damage, allergic reaction, etc.)

RYR extract is a low dose, weak statin and as such it shares the good and the bad with statins.

So Lenin, as I think you have stated before, if i am going to need to be on a statin, even a low dose one, I might as well obtain a script for say Mevacor and pay only a $5 co-pay thru my healthcare provider rather than having something from China shipped to my door and take my chances and pay alot more.

Yeppers... that is what I've been quietly thinking to myself since this topic was started. Use the copay and get a measured, clean statin from a pharmacy.

There are some natually derived statins out there like pravachol that aren't as strong. It's the synthetic statins extremely strong and are the nastiest on your body, although they work the best too.

It's a tough decision.

So Ventureman, are you saying that Pravachol would be similar to say RYR in the way it is produced?

Grover,

Did your numbers improved due to the RYR or the niacin? I'm curious if you had your numbers checked after only taking niacin... and checked after only taking RYR.

Just courious as to what to actually attribute the decline in T-C to. At 2000 mg niacin, I bet most of the decline is due to the niacin.

Grover, what I'd like to know is what have you practiced for 20 years?
You stated one brand which you will not mention, yet you have mentioned it already twice is Nature's Plus RYR. Isn't Nature's Plus an American company?
It is against our laws to manufacture any supplement that contains anything that closely resembles lovastatin so how can it be of any worth?

Mr.Detail,

Though the incidence of rhabdomyolysis is vanishingly small, it can be caused by both lovastatin AND RYR.
Any list of side effects ffor RYR clearly mentions rhabdo (and joint pain, liver damage, allergic reaction, etc.)

RYR extract is a low dose, weak statin and as such it shares the good and the bad with statins.

Lenin, (Ventureman for info)

There is no scientific evidence available to support your writing.

No official study or participant follow-up surveys have produced any list of side effects that contain proven onset of rhabdomyolysis.

Maybe it's the medical establishment's scare mongering literature that you have read.

I started this thread to pass on SOME of my knowledge of this product, to help others to decide if it would be a suitable alternative for them to take.......instead of Statins, for those that do not want to take statins, or for those that can longer take statins.

I have laid out facts and only facts about RYR for members, to enable them to make up their own mind on whether RYR in any one of it's three main forms, is for them as an alternative,.......... and up pops a couple of long standing members with their penny's worth, rebuffing my years of researched facts, with what evidence?

Please tell me where this hidden 'researched' information can be located.

The following doses have been used in many of the 93 unique trials that have been documented, and as long as you stick with the below doses as a maximum, the ONLY side effects you can expect are those I mentioned at the start of this thread.

Xuezhikang dosage of 1.2 g/day
Zhibituo at 3.15 g/day
RYR dietary supplement (Over the counter RYR) 2.4 g/day

Never mind what the 'knockers' of this product say.
Hundreds, if not thousands of years of Chinese usage of this product has not produced a nation of "rhabdomyolysis ridden people", nor people with "shrivelled up livers".
It is only during the last decade that cholesterol levels have been rising in China, may be due to economic growth and the accompanied western world diet and lifestyle changes.

For info: There has also been a Cost-effectiveness study.

Xuezhikang vs. pravastatin for treatment of hypercholesterolemia.
Reducing by1 mmol/L of TC level, the cost of Xuezhikang and pravastatin was $57 and $78.
Reducing by 1 mmol/L TG level, the cost of Xuezhikang and pravastatin was $242 and $820.
Reducing by 1 mmol/L LDL-C level, the cost of Xuezhikang and pravastatin was $59 and $84.
All figures are respective.

The five year safety trial of RYR is I believe, still under way. What a waste of money. It would have been cheaper to fly to China and seen half a nation's lifetime results. Five years means nothing, as they found out from a particular statin. Unfortunately, I feel there will be more in the near future....Just one of my worries.

Grover, what I'd like to know is what have you practiced for 20 years?
You stated one brand which you will not mention, yet you have mentioned it already twice is Nature's Plus RYR. Isn't Nature's Plus an American company?
It is against our laws to manufacture any supplement that contains anything that closely resembles lovastatin so how can it be of any worth?

Incorrect Mr. Detail!

Only by mentioning in writing the content of monacolin-K is forbidden. Not that it cannot be incorporated in the manufacturing process.
It is manfactured in the US and sold worldwide. It's even sold here, in the valleys and mountains of Wales.

good authoritative replies and right on about current US products being able to contain Monaconlin K as long as the level isn't advertised. I would point out though that some actually do advertise the levels but evidently haven't been caught by the FDA yet.

There are records where Chinese have regularly consumed 90 gms or more of RYR without incident (and they still do). As pointed out, this is used as a food and flavoring in many areas of China and medicinal uses are secondary.A number of biochemical companies now produce controlled grades with various levels of monaconlins and Monaconlin K (lovastatin). I visit there a few times a year for my job and could buy it directly but for now, I'm sticking with US suppliers that are USP certified. The old Choesetin was such a product.

mmvic;
"The old Choesetin was such a product".

If Cholestin was USP certified then Xuezhikang is one in the same.
It states this on Xuezhikang's website, that Cholestin was the exported version of Xuezhikang back in the mid 1990's. So purchasing Xuezhikang would be the same as buying Cholestin, right?




"Xuezhikang dosage of 1.2 g/day"

How many capsules of Xuezhikang equal 1.2 grams per day? 2 or 4?

"Xuezhikang dosage of 1.2 g/day"

How many capsules of Xuezhikang equal 1.2 grams per day? 2 or 4?

Are you really pulling my leg Mr. Detail?

I would love to help you but my abacus is not to hand at the moment, sorry!

:jester:

Actually I was dead serious until my brain clicked in and only at this moment did I realize that 1.2 grams would equal 2 capsules. Sorry for the confusion.

Actually Mr. detail, if you import Xuezhikang capsules from China, they will probably be in sizes of 500mg or 300mg. So, that would be 2.4 or 4 capsules/day respectively.

So your question was justified after all.

Before you go down that route, try the Nature's plus RYR first at 1.2gms/day, taken in the evening with dinner.
By the way, I too have no association with any RYR manufacturers, but Nature's Plus seems about the best bet for a higher reduction of all the dietry RYR formulations on the US market at the moment.

:D

yes sir, \I have just checked the label on the Nature's Plus RYR and it states that
one extended-release tablet contains Red Yeast Rice (Monascus purpureus) (stand. 1.7% [10.2 mg] HMG-CoA reductase inhibitors) 600 mg.

I think the standardized 1.7% and the (10.2 mg.) are throwing me here.
Does this mean that one tablet contains the equivalent of 10.2 mg. of lovastatin? Trying here to get away wiht mabe taking just one per night at first to see if I get good results.

No, the capsules contain 10.2 mgs of total monaconlins and about 0.4% or 2.4 mg Monaconlin K . The UCLA study of RYR in 1999 showed that 4 capsules of Cholestin gave the best results but 2 also worked faiirly well. I assume concentrations are about the same as then. Other RYR brands provided similar results.

mmvic;
What is the best method of taking the RYR? If you took 4 capsules per day should you split them up as in 2 with breakfast and then 2 before bedtime?
Or just take all 4 caps at bedtime since my understanding is that the evening is when the liver produces the most cholestrerol.

Taking Cholestin doesn't seem cheap...roughly about 2 bucks a day for the 4 capsule and thus about the cost of simvastatin. Breaking simvastatin pills to achieve dosages of statin comparable to the 4 Cholestin would cost only a small fraction of the cost of the RYR.

There may be reasons for taking these tiny doses of weak statins (RYR) but cost considerations cannot be among them. And of course, insurance pays no part of the cost.;)

Natural? The processing of red yeast rice by fermenting it with a yeast and alcohol and then chemically removing much of the gluten component to get a certain percentage of monacolin is no more natural than the growing mold in a huge vat of nutrients and then removing the components that aren't active ingredients to get, you guessed it, PENICILLIN, streptomycin, sufa drugs, etc. There's nothing "natural" about making cholesin.

Lenin, for me it's not so much about the cost as it is the side effects.
RYR as stated earlier within this post has never shown to develop ther muscle tissue deterioration like the man made drug companies statins.

Lenin, Cholestin maybe expensive but other brands as we discussed, and I use, are 5 cents a tablet. Also, the process you describe doesn't apply to all the RYR. Most is simply fermented, decanted and dried under controlled conditions. Don't forget this has been around for at least hundreds of years and is in daily use in large quantities by millions. Also if you check, many poeple on this forum have reported good results with RYR.

Mr Detail, I take 1 capsule at dinner and two at bedtime.

Let's write a few more facts to identify what Red Yeast Rice is.

But first, as far as I am aware there is only one RYR manufacturing process that uses alcohol, perhaps that's why it's the most potent.:D
My wife, processes my cooked rice chemically to remove the gluten with H2O. Is this not a natural process?
Lenin's process for obtaining monacolins would never work. I'm not even going to bother to comment, so I will let him believe his process is correct.

Monacolins.
To date, 14 monacolin compounds have been identified using photodiode array detectors along with tandem mass spectrometry technology, from various strains of RYR.

Monacolin K is a HMG-CoA reductase inhibitor, but so are all monacolins, J, L, M, X etc. So, in theory, there can be a maximum of 14 statins in one capsule of RYR. ".:jester:

Following many head to head trials, it was not, nor is it still understood why 7.2mgs monacolin-k of RYR has more potent lipid-lowering activity than 40mgs. of the pharmaceutical form of Lovastatin. It is thought that the combination of the bioactive actions of all present monacolins will turn out to be the answer.
This could well be the case, as RYR containing say 7 of the 14 monacolins has n't the same lipid lowering effect as another preparation containing a different combination of 7.

Cholestin is defunct, dead in the water, and was not a strong strain of RYR. So let's look at today's best, Xuezhikang, at a dose 1.2 g/d provides 13.5 mg total monacolins, of which 10 mg is monacolin-K. This can reduce TC by upto 44%.

Now, Nature's Plus 1.2 g/d provides a guaranteed minimum 20.4 mg total monacolins, of which we do not know the Monacolin K content. It will probably be between 4.8gms and 7.4gms at a guess. Being a standardized product I would plum for the latter figure.
So, Mr. Detail, my advice would be to try one 600mg for four weeks, lipid test and increase to 1.2mg if TC/LDL/TG decrease is only marginal. But you should see one after only 4 weeks. HDL will probably not be affected, so even more exercise, red wine and/or Inositol Hexanicotinate will be needed if this is low.

BTW Mr. Detail, the Nature's Plus RYR on my shelves state:

Red Yeast Rice (Monascus purpureus) (stand. 1.7% [10.2 mg]
and not with the "HMG-CoA reductase inhibitors" wording.

This was removed to prevent FDA action. ( I believe.) However, we do not have that FDA problem over here in Europe, fortunately.

ps. The cost of 60 caps of the above averages $18. At one a day. that would be 30 cents or 60 cents for two.

Making RYR is remarkably akin to making beer - a very, very natural and enjoyable process. :dizzy: Most people I know of wound up needing between 2 to 4 600 mg capsules of any product for max reduction if they start with cholesterol levels near 240. This is in line with the UCLA study and most other supervised medical trials. Your point is valid using tapered dosage and testing and it's is a reasonable way to go with any supplement and most drugs for that matter.

You all are making compelling points... almost enough for me to concider RYR in addition to the niacin I'm taking.

Thank you once again for your detailed and concise post. If you ever decide to go into holistic medicine or become a homeopathic doctor and move here to the States please give me a call. :jester:

All kidding aside I enjoy your responses. Have a nice weekend!

You all are making interesting points... almost enough to concider this in addition to the niacin I'm taking.

If you decide to go down this path, don't forget to supplement with COq10. As I stated, no muscle damage to date from any trial except for the one where a participant was also taking a prescribed medication. But we are all unique individuals, and anything can happen, so play safe.

As for the daily dosage of COq10, I'm not going to pluck a figure out the air. The older you are, the more COq10 intake you need.
COq10 is manufactured in the body, but the manufacturing process starts to decline, usually in ones 30's.
So a person of 30-40 years of age will need a low dose of 30mgs per day, building up to 200mgs per day in the 60+ age group. (With or without statins /RYR, may I add.)

DO NOT supplement with inferior COq10 products. Use the studied Japanese based product I mentioned somewhere within this now, long thread.

I hope that my contributions have been informative, and that those of you who are not already taking RYR, now feel you have a lot more knowledge on the product to make you feel more confident about taking this course of action as an alternative to statins.

Long live stabalized Red Yeast Rice!

If any readers taking either Nature's Plus (1.7%) or Source Naturals (1.5%) products, would like to place their current achieved results and side effects if any, from using the product, please do so on this thread.

You have read the facts, so now let's see some results.

ps. Many thanks for reading this thread, and for the input from the participants.

Making RYR is remarkably akin to making beer - a very, very natural and enjoyable process.

And where do we go to buy our beer in capsules.;) Do you get my point?

The process for making RYR extract is FAR closer to making penicillin than to making beer.

Capsules of RYR standardized to XYZ of monacolinn A, B, C, D, E, F, or K is NOT natural in spite of the fact that cooking rice IS.

This can reduce TC by upto 44%.
A phrase like that has absolutely NO scientific meaning. It's like somebody asking what a house costs and being told "up to 50 million" or espousing a diet that causes a weight loss of "up to 4 pounds a week."

Rhabdomyolysis? No I didn;t make up the references; there are hundreds of references to the possiblity of it's occurrence with RYR. Statins cause rhabdomyolysis and monacolis are statins whether they taste good with Peking Cuck or not. If you take it, you should be every bit as cognizant as if you were taking Mevacor.

FDA testedd several batches of RYR from China and determined there was NO monacolin-K present.

So, use it if your cholesterol numbers are fair and you need only a small improvemnent, test your liver for enzymes, keep watch for rhabdo and tell Ripley's if you get the 44% "up to" cholestterol reduction claim.
If you find it useless, use it to make Peking Duck...but don't just glue the capsules on...that would look silly!:jester:

Plain and simple, it is an UNREGULATED supplement which makes and CAN make NO CLAIMS about safety or efficacy and can not even make claims as to it's contents of active ingredients. If you find that you cannot take a weak statin but you CAN take RYR it is probably because you received some of the same capsules the FDA did that contained nothing but rice...a nice pricey placebo. But hey, placebos work for some poeple.

Hi Lenin,

Sorry, but you seem to be in the valley at the moment in solitude, whilst the rest of us are on top of the glorious mountains, not wearing blinkers.
It adds spice to the topic when a respected gentleman like yourself believes that synthetic science is by far superior to Mother Nature's science.

Humans have developed over the course of millions of years, but now thanks to synthetic drugs during the course of the past century, we are living longer, yes, but at what cost?

Have a nice week-end.

FDA tested several batches of RYR from China and determined there was NO monacolin-K present.

Yeah and the FDA really wants to see any red yeast rice product flourish since they are in bed with Big Pharma.

Then the are only a handfull of natual product that can influence cholestrol and they are: RYR, plant sterols, niacin and fish oil.

As for megadosing with niacin being natural:

Here's the first step in making niacin commercially: total hydrolysis of 3-cyanopyridine with a strong base!
Does that STILL sound "natural" to you? No, it's NOT made by squeezing the fruit of the "niacin plant." :D

"Natural is one of those words that remains undefined and thus it is overused to death , usually improperly, to sell products."

As for megadosing with niacin being natural:

Here's the first step in making niacin commercially: total hydrolysis of 3-cyanopyridine with a strong base!
Does that STILL sound "natural" to you? No, it's NOT made by squeezing the fruit of the "niacin plant." :D

"Natural is one of those words that remains undefined and thus it is overused to death , usually improperly, to sell products."

I would rather not get involved in the twisting of words, but the word Niacin (not synthetic niacin) was mentioned,

If you would rather not take a synthetic form of Niacin, then here are the NATURAL sources of Niacin. Who needs a Vitamin B3 pill or two when it's already been provided in abundance by Mother Nature.

Niacin is also known as vitamin B3 and has an essential role in energy metabolism in living cells and DNA repair.

Make a 'smoothie' or two of the best of the non-animal products below and 'Bob's your Uncle' for natural Vitamin B3 (Niacin), (and LOADS of other vitamins) at a fairly reasonable dose, but is expensive. However, it is natural and not synthetically manufactured.

Natural food sources of Vitamin B3:

Animal products: Liver, heart and kidney, chicken and beef.
Fish: Tuna and Salmon.
Milk and eggs.

Fruits and vegetables:Leaf vegetables, broccoli, tomatoes, carrots, dates, sweet potatoes, asparagus and avocados.

Seeds: nuts, whole grain products, legumes, peas and beans.

Fungi: mushrooms and brewer's yeast are examples.

Now that's what I call squeezing the Niacin out of fruit, veg, seed and what's that word......Fungi......

But surely, that word Fungi is plural for Fungus.
Now, where have I heard that word fungus before? Oh Yes! - Monascus purpureus.

All,

I'm certainly not against natural remedies - in fact, a few years ago many of you know that I had serious muscle problems when a fibrate was combined with my Lipitor.

But I do have a concern recently (within the past 2 years) about the quality of supplements - they've received so much bad press - and most of it legitimate - even tests by Underwriters Labs frequently find that various supplements' actual ingredients can vary dramatically from what they claim on the label.

My main question is this: If you buy supplements today (RYR or others), what guarantee (other than the word of the manufacturer or marketer) do you have that it contains what it claims to contain, and nothing more (no added ethlyne glycol for example)?

HubbleRules

Hubble

Just like anything else in life, you have to do your homework on the suppliers and their products and make informed judgements. Do you and Lenin truly believe and trust in the FDA today? Big pharma has done everything thing possible to defend against RYR so I tend to discount FDA pronouncements about it. Just because someone uses a supplement does not make it useless or bad and the supplier a scam artist. Millions of people daily prove otherwise and have done so for centuries.

I'm not against statins or any other drugs but I do strongly believe in informed, personal choice and responsiblity and I'm a skeptic of today's big pharma and our government agencies. I trust my research and judgment much, much more than the FDA or government agencies and my training is at least equal to most of their corrupt, industry controlled morons. And a final jab, since I was involved in commerical beer brewing as a young scientist- it is just like making RYR. Special cultivated yeast, a must including rice, hops and malt, added ingredients like alcohol to controlled fermentation -just like making RYR except the must is tossed and we drink the decant.:D It may not be natural but it sure is good.:D

As to monaconlin content and best brand - test baseline lipid numbers, try a good brand, after researching, for 6 to 8 weeks, recheck your numbers and either adjust dose or try another brand. Hmm, kind of what the average doc does with statins eh? Seems most people could anwer their own questions of efficacy this way instead of taking testimonials.If you search this forum, you'll find many people who have done just that successfully with RYR.

Hubble

Do you and Lenin truly believe and trust in the FDA today? Big pharma has done everything thing possible to defend against RYR so I tend to discount FDA pronouncements about it.


mmvic,

I agree with your scepticism... I've posted in the past few years many times about the tremendous financial conflicts of interest between the FDA and pharmaceuticals - and in the medical profession in general. My opinion of the way the FDA is currently structured and funded is this: I trust the FDA about as far as I can spit...

I also have trouble with the current cholesterol guidelines (I think they may very well be too low) - because it is a fact that 8 or 9 of the 10 professionals on the advisory panel that approved the current guidelines had financial conflicts of interest with the pharmaceutical companies.


I'm not against statins or any other drugs but I do strongly believe in informed, personal choice and responsiblity and I'm a skeptic of today's big pharma and our government agencies.

I'm not for/against statins or supplements - I think they both are good for certain health situations - and I also believe in informed choice. However, I'm not blind to the fact that the supplement industry has allowed itself to get in trouble (from a quality point of view) due to a lack of formal, mandatory quality standards.

I've tried natural supplements myself (inositol hexanicotinate, policosanol, CoQ10, Vitamin-C, E, Omega-3s.) along with diet & exercise but was not able to get my cholesterol numbers to a range I feel comfortable with via this route, and so I very reluctantly went back on a statin. I'd like to be able to take RYR if it truly had fewer side-effects than statins, but I'd be more worried about what is really in the RYR pill I'd be ingesting than I am about statin side-effects.

I think we share a lot of opinions - but I really wish the supplement industry were better regulated - voluntary compliance hasn't worked all that well - it's still a buyer-beware marketplace - and for things you are putting into your body, it shouldn't be.

HubbleRules
:cool:

Natural food sources of Vitamin B3:

Animal products: Liver, heart and kidney, chicken and beef.
Fish: Tuna and Salmon.
Milk and eggs.

Yes indeed...NOW show me how one can get 2 grams of niacin with these natural sources. Do you honestly think Vitamin Shoppe is squeezing 50 pounds of livers and hearts inot its capsules? No, they use a chemical process to MAKE niacin...and call it "all natural." Like I said, "natural is a slippery word these days."



"Trust the FDA?": Would you trust NO FDA more...Can ZERO regulation conceivably be preferable, because ZERO regulation is what we have now for the supplement industry thanks to a couple foul balls in Congress. When it comes to heart medications, I think regulation by SOMEONE is needed lest we get ground up sawdust and animal wastes in out pricey little pills with claims that they cure all disease. Have we all forgotten recent events with Chinese food and drug products?

Of COURSE Mr. Bush's FDA is probably under orders to treat big Pharma with kid gloves and look the other way, but the answer to a horrific problem like this is not to assume that we need no regulation of drugs and supplements...that's the kind of non-thinking that "got us into this mess, Stanley." :D

Anyone considering RYR should go into it with eyes open knowing that he may get ripped off because there are no laws to prevent it. He should know that RYR has never been shown in any large scale tests to be safe and efficacious and he should treat any claims of "up to 40% cholesterol reduction" as specious...the average taker will see no such result. Such a person had best NOT have heart disease or be at strong risk for it and he should be regualarly tested to see if he improves his lipid numbers and by how much.
AND he should be be on the lookout for liver damage and rhabdomyolysis (yes there are hundreds of easily found references tying RYR and rhabdo) just like he would if he were taking Rx lovastatin.

Anyone considering RYR should go into it with eyes open knowing that he may get ripped off because there are no laws to prevent it. He should know that RYR has never been shown in any large scale tests to be safe and efficacious and he should treat any claims of "up to 40% cholesterol reduction" as specious...the average taker will see no such result. Such a person had best NOT have heart disease or be at strong risk for it and he should be regualarly tested to see if he improves his lipid numbers and by how much.
AND he should be be on the lookout for liver damage and rhabdomyolysis (yes there are hundreds of easily found references tying RYR and rhabdo) just like he would if he were taking Rx lovastatin.

The only reason why people will get 'ripped off' is when they purchase a RYR product off a supermarket shelf thinking that one RYR product is the same as the next. As mmvic has stated, use a manufacturer whose products meet or exceeds the USP standards for that product. This will be clearly stated on a manufacturer's website if they are a member. You are then guaranteed standardization, with some manufacturers even having each and everyone of there products tested for the stated content of a product by an independant laboratory, whereby a certificate will be issued by the lab and usually found within the carton. The manufacturer I have been mentioning on this thread is one such company.

The drop of 19-44% referred to studies carried out using Xuezhikang.
It is highly unlikely that Xuezhikang is available in the US, but is widely available in Asia and Europe. So Lenin is correct, you will not get the 'upto 40%' there in the States.

I say 'average' below because only average reduction figures were provided for the 93 studies..

However, you should get an average TC reduction of 16%.
Only around 7% for TG.
LDL-C average reduction of 22%.
using standardized OTC RYR products.

Add to the advice of Lenin's. Do not under any circumstances consume grapefruit juice whilst using the RYR product.

Is Nature Plan sold int eh USA...?

I went out to (a store) and they have have their own brand of RYR with Policosanol Complex derived from sugar cane. I'm assuming this is one of the plant sterols you are talking about.

Anyway... seems they are not allowed to ship this to California due to proposition 65, which refers to hazardous products and materials.

Any comment as to why this is considered a hazardous product...?

Prop 65 requires specific disclosure of ingredients and warnings. Not all manufacturers do this to the statisfaction of Calif, try anotherr supplier. FYI, i wouldn't take a mixed product since you have two levels to control. Policosanol is not a plant sterol and there are some questions of efficacy.

Lenin, to your point I don't advocate elimination of the FDA, just reorganization and tough independent civilian oversight. The FDA, big pharma and through complicity the AMA have killed or injured more people in the last 10-15 years in my estimation than any of the supplements that in many cases may do nothing. By the way, many products including pharmacueticals are now sourced from China under FDA "supervison" so don't count yourself homefree because you buy prescription meds. I do feel some supplements, just like some drugs, have value and their purity can be judged reasonably by certification from organizations like USP.

Your best Cholesteral lowering meds are Niacin (I buy the non-flushable) which is less strong and does not have the side effects of flushing) and the most you can do, take a shotglass full ( or 2 tablespoons full of Virgin Olive Oil. Check "Olive Oil" out on the Internet is lowers your LDL and bring up the HDL within a short period of time. (I heat the olive oil, you can add a bit of garlic powder) and dunk some bread into it) just like they do in Italien Restaurants. It is healthy - tastes fine and is effective.

Will one of the red-yeast-rice boosters please tell me which brand of RYR sold in the United States is sold to "USP" grade, a term that's been bandied about here? And as USP grade WHAT?

All I can find is a couple sold as "Kosher"...really. :D




Oh, BTW, that UNnatureal process for making Mevavor involves isolating lovastatin from a tank grown fungus called Aspergillus terreus, and then inactive components are added to make a pill...just like making penicillin and AWFULLY close to the methods for making UNREGULATED RYR!

To me it seems so simple. If one has the option of taking a KNOWN and regulated dose of a statin, a powerful drug, or an UNknown dose, why would someone conceivably choose the UNknown dose? Just because it's sold at GNC or Vitamin Shoppe?

Lenin,

Naturally produced Monacolin-k in RYR is in two forms. Acid and Lactone.
Monacolin-k properties of Lovastatin is the acid form only.

BTW: Lovastatin is also manufactured from Pleurotus Osteatus, which in English is - Oyster Mushrooms.

http://www.healthboards.com/boards/faq.php?faq=faq_hb
"Posting any kind of information for any reason on how to find websites, products, services, businesses, commercial sites, message boards, or chats is cause to be banned."

There are a number of brands that were evaluated and verfied as to ingredients and concentrations by the USP or are produced by USP qualified firms. Do some checking and you'll find them. The limits on the forum preclude giving more directions to the organization or their website. It goes by the name United States Pharmacopeia. They do the same thing for supplements that the FDA does for drugs except I think they have a better reputation.:D Hmm, I wonder who checks your niacin or the asprin or Lipitor that you trust so much? Maybe the FDA or just maybe it's the USP?:D

RYR , whether acid or lactone form, has a number of secondary ferementation products including other monacolins, isoflavones, sterols, etc that seem to have a synergistic effect that provides effective lowering of cholesterol even though the lovastatin concentration is low- it's generally better than Mevacor used at higher doses. Current pharmaceutically produced statins do not have any of these other fermentation products - this is one case where high purity may not be beneficial. This also has been studied pretty thoroughly by reputable researchers. To me, this is one part of the draw for RYR.

The FDA has full responsibility for the safety and efficacy and dosage of aspirin and Lipiutor. NOBODY has responsibility for checking niacin... with the single exception of Niaspan, which falls under FDA purview.

No, there are no board rules preventing the mention of brands of RYR which are sold claiming USP grade purity.
And thus I still await the names.

(Post #45 makes no mention of USP grade...am I to assume you mean Xuezhikang. Thus you are saying Xuezhikang claims to be USP grade? Am I right?)

The FDA has full responsibility for the safety and efficacy and dosage of aspirin and Lipiutor. NOBODY has responsibility for checking niacin... with the single exception of Niaspan, which falls under FDA purview.

No, there are no board rules preventing the mention of brands of RYR which are sold claiming USP grade purity.
And thus I still await the names.

(Post #45 makes no mention of USP grade...am I to assume you mean Xuezhikang. Thus you are saying Xuezhikang claims to be USP grade? Am I right?)


Lenin, before you carry on about the FDA, do yourself a favor and please go and find out about the USP and read their role . They are an independent agency charged with oversite of the production and safety of prescription, OTC and supplements. Manufacturers and individual products can be approved by them and/or follow their GMPs. Also check Consumer Lab , and other independent audit groups sites for botanicals and supplements ,for more info. There are several other independent organizations that provide audits and rankings of supplement manufacturers.

FYI, as of June 2007 the FDA now mandates GMPs or Good Manufacturing Practices, same for USP GMPs, for supplement makers that they will have to comply with by 2010 that will regulate manufacturing and purity. Suppliers with over 500 employees must comply this year. The best suppliers have already been following these practices for years.

(Post #45 makes no mention of USP grade...am I to assume you mean Xuezhikang Thus you are saying Xuezhikang claims to be USP grade? Am I right?)


Lenin, Xuezhikang is "Made In China" so how could it receive a USP grade?
If USP stands for "United States Pharmacopeia" then I would believe they would not give it this grade since it would be a conflict of interest with Big Pharma, right?

No, there are no board rules preventing the mention of brands of RYR which are sold claiming USP grade purity.
And thus I still await the names.

(Post #45 makes no mention of USP grade...am I to assume you mean Xuezhikang,Thus you are saying Xuezhikang claims to be USP grade? Am I right?)

Hi Lenin,
Here is the extract from post 45, I was referring too:
This will be clearly stated on a manufacturer's website if they are a member. You are then guaranteed standardization, with some manufacturers even having each and everyone of their products tested for the stated content of a product by an independent laboratory, whereby a certificate will be issued by the lab and usually found within the carton. The manufacturer I have been mentioning on this thread is one such company."

Perrigo is another supplier that meets all NSF, USP, and FDA GMP requirements for manufacturing and quality standards. They are the world's leading contract manufacturer of OTC and nutritional drugs as well as generics and other pharmaceuticals. Costco sells RYR made by Perrigo, 600 mg capsules , 250 each bottle, cheap. There are others such as Rexall/Sundowner if you do some checking. None will publish or tell you lovastatin levels since if they do, the product is defined as a drug and they are subject to FDA action. They will provide certification of monaconlin levels that include Monaconlin K and manufacturing certification.

In summary, what we are saying is do some background checking on your products and suppliers but ,ultimately as with any drug or supplement, you have the responsibility to do baseline, efficacy and general monitoring of your health for yourself and see what works for you.

Lenin, I'm all for the Kosher certified RYR, it may taste better!:D

Orb,

So then if I buy a bottle of Nature's Plus RYR I will find the clear mention of it's USP grade classification on the bottle, on the box, or on the package insert.

I'm running low on Protein Powder.

Lenin,

??

The product is sold internationally, so who in the world outside the USA needs or wants to know what 'USP' or 'FDA' is?

We have our own problems with the EU Food Supplements Directive at the moment, who's judgements will and are being imposed on all EU member countries. Looks like the EU is taking a more positive approach than your USP in respect of OTC supplements. (They just ban them from 2x countries over here).
Having said that, Red Yeast Rice is not on their 'blacklist'. (Although 420 vitamin/supplements are). So, if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me.

mmvic;

Costco sells RYR made by Perrigo, 600 mg capsules , 250 each bottle, cheap.

Yes but does the RYR made by Perrigo actually contain any "Monaconlin K"?
I just sent an e-mail to "Rexall/Sundowner" and they wouldn't admit to anything as you stated nor would they give me certification. Still waiting to hear back from Perrigo. Isn't giving certification admitting the same as in the writing on the label/bottle? I could be an FDA spy.

Mr. Detail,

Good-day sport.

I've been there, not seen it, but dunnit.
Several queries over a couple of years to US manufacturers, NONE of whom would commit themselves to an answer on that line of query.
Not even from a mere Welshman. (Could get more of a positive reply from the sheep on this mountain outside the back door here.)

Really, one cannot expect anything else, under the circumstances.

Mr Detail, none of the manaufacturers can or should provide Monaconlin K or lovastatin concentration. If you read the rest of this thread, thanks to our illustrious FDA, doing so is ILLEGAL and will subject them to a regulatory action. This saves us from toxic RYR so we can be done in by Avandia, Vioxx, Baycol and other FDA certified drugs. :D

All this came about because Merck had a fit that RYR and Cholestin might impact their sales of lovastatin and their "patent". They then filed a complaint with the FDA and claimed patent infringment on a natural product! Think of the billions of dollars involved with statins and you'll understand. RYR can be sold and the total monaconlins can be listed but that's it. Certification means the product has the total monaconlin concentration listed- not the breakdown- and that it was made and tested following USP and FDA GMPs. Most commercial fermented RYR following GMPs has a reasonable amount of Monaconlin K, GABA, isoflavones, and sterols. Regulated statins do not contain these other natural by products. You have to try it and compare effects to baseline. Just like we, and our doctors, do with other statins, eh.:cool: