Good morning all. Son is still in county, they continue to give him resperdol shots every two weeks, resperdol pills at night and depokote 1500 mg.

County added for anxiety buspar and clonadine (he said no to trazadone) He is still in lockdown because county is overcrowded and there is no where to put him or anyone else being in his cell 23 out of 24 hours.

I am allowed to see him 20 minutes a week. I visited him yesterday and again saw a different person, this time a man. He said he will never touch alcohol, cigerettes or drugs again. He recognizes them as triggers. First time this came out of his mouth and this is what I have been waiting to hear.

Questions:
Do you think he is still manipulating me (because I don't see the old signs of manipulation).

Is he medications keeping his need for self medication undercontrol?

Can the right BP medication make you an responsible adult within 30 days.

They now want to put him additionally on an ADHD medication because he doesn't stay focused all the time, he was diagnosed with ADD when he was young.

I am trying to figure out if it is time to bail him out, I don't see a scared stupid kid anymore.

Thanks, cram315

Cram,

It does sound like your son is doing better.

Is it possible for you to bail him out with the following conditions:
100% medication compliance,
Daily attendance at NA or AA meetings,
No Drugs or Alcohol
Continued participation in pdoc and tdoc sessions

Would he agree to the above with the understanding that you would revoke bail if he does not comply? Would he still have access to his medication and followup with his docs?

I do think the need to self medicate decreases when BPers are given the proper medication. I know we have seen this with my son.

Good Luck and I hope this is the beginning of better times for you and your son. Don't get too discouraged if he does have some setbacks. Be prepared for bumps and even logs in the road.

Lor:)

Hi cram315,

I'd say if it's something he has never said before and it sounds like from what your saying that he is different this time, that to me sounds very positive!! If it seems to be working then maybe he might be better off where he is for the time being and see how it goes, only time will tell i suppose wether he is finally taking responsibilty in learning his triggers. I just think if you never heard him say that before then that can only be a good thing! Good luck and keep us posted how your son is doing;)

wend x

Questions:
Do you think he is still manipulating me (because I don't see the old signs of manipulation). Nobody could tell for sure, but if the meds are truly working it is definitely possible that your son is being honest

Is he medications keeping his need for self medication undercontrol? With the right meds in place it has been shared that the urge to self-medicate does go away

Can the right BP medication make you an responsible adult within 30 days. It can definitely change one's perception of things lessening the anger, frustration, impulsiveness, and overall awareness of things.

When my daughter was hospitalized, diagnosed & treated for BP(it was mandated by the court after she had been arrested for shoplifting), we had her for our first 3 hour off site visitation. We took her to a flea market to get an outfit since she had gained a few pounds. She was somewhat overwhelmed by the noise and we shopped for a while and then went out to eat. We knew that the meds were making a difference when she told us that this was the first time that she went into a store or place where there was merchandise and didn't feel the urge to take anything. So, YES, the meds CAN make a tremendous difference in a short while if they are on the right ones.

BTW....the med that worked well for the impulsiveness in my daughter was Risperdal!!;)

As far as taking care of the ADD, the usual rule of thumb is to address the BP and if the meds do not eliminate the ADD symptoms then the ADD should be treated. Sounds as if they are following that line of thinking. The thing to look for is any worsening of the BP symptoms when doing so.

Thanks, Cram, for the update. I am so happy to see that your son is doing so well. I hope that he can come home soon....you will know, he will know and the doctors will know when the right time for that is. Unfortunately, 20 minute visits are not really much to go by so don't rush it....you may want to see how he does with and ADD med before pushing for him coming home.

Lots of ((((HUGS)))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:

I went to see my son today and he was a mental wreck. He was unfocused and out of sorts (like he was high on drugs but I knew he wasn't).

His BP meds haven't been adjusted since in county and he says they haven't been dosing him correctly. He made a request five days ago to seek medical attention and so far no response, I had to complain for him.

He has been having suicidal thoughts and panic attacks. When I visited him for 20 precious minutes I couldn't keep him focused. County undid his short progress in 11 days!

Question: How fast does not being medicated properly show. I only see him once a week, so wasn't aware of the slide until today. This experience was scary because 1) I fear this will happen when he is released and 2) I can't bail him out now until his meds are fixed.

Does this happen when the meds go off, that they go from great to horrible?

cram315

Oh cram, I'm so sorry your son has lost the good progress that he was making. The simple answer to your question is that just about anything is possible. There are just so many variables. But yes, a person's mood can change in a matter of hours if the medications aren't doing their job.

However, once he is out it will be much easier to control. There will also be less stress in general which will only be helpful. How much longer does he have to stay in jail??

Your son is dealing with so much right now that it is hard to say what he might do under more "normal" circumstances, when he doesn't have so much stress...but I assume, it will have to be better!

take good care,
xx Tsohl

He has to stay in jail until I bail him out, not an easy decision.

They aren't giving him his risperdol shots which I was told originally keeps their dosage for two weeks steady. Even after I complained yesterday, his appt isn't till tomorrow with his pdoc. Idiots. But not overlooked by me.

I am going to bail him after I speak to his case mananger to make sure everything is set in motion, meds and doctors. They will provide him a temporary place to live until he is medicated properly. That's all I can do and hope for the best that between the medicine and the harsh reality of jail, he is going to change.

Question, most people hate stress, is it worse for bipolars?

cram315

Cram, I am sorry to hear about your son's decline. It does sound like it may be attributed to the combination of the lack of medication and the stress of being in jail. I do think that stress is much worse for BP'ers. My son is doing better now, but stress remains a big trigger for him. He just is not able to cope with stress or transitions as well as our other kids. I hear the same thing from other posters here.

Good Luck and hopefully he will get back to where he was soon. Would the hospital take him back for a short time to stabilize him?

Lor:)

:wave: Hi cram,

Yes, in any book on BP that you pick up it will mention stress as a huge, if not #1 trigger for someone who has BP. When my son was about to graduate from college and locate to a new city, my doc advised me to keep an eye on him as change is something that is very hard for someone with BP to cope with and often triggers an episode...of mania in my son's case. He ended up in the hospital and was at the lowest point in his life.

What it means is that it is more important for your son than for others to make life choices that lessen his levels of stress rather than making everything worse -- job choice for one.

I would think that if your son was on risperdal pills instead of a shot, the jail could administer them. In any case, he'll be much better off out of jail than in.

:wave: Tsohl

I'm BP II and I can say you've got a double edged sword situation based on my personal experience and what I would do/feel. Firstly, Jail is something I've flirted with a couple times but never been in, and I know I wouldn't last 1 day in there. I would definitly freak. So for his own good I would get him out. Halfway house or something. On the other hand, in terms of manipulation, I have perfected it to an art for several reasons....avoiding embarassment, getting what I want, etc. So I'd get him out of there, it will only make him slide mentally and then once he's out he'll need an outlet. Take him out and find a safer place for him mentally, as well as safe in terms of his triggers.

{Hugs}, I needed to feel support today & all of you did, thank you.

His shots were in addition to nightly risperdol pills. By not getting his shots the dose in his system changed and they didn't up his pills to comepensate. It is obvious the shots wore off in his system.

I posted bail and am waiting for him to call me. I have no idea what the next month or two has in store, I am going to take it one day at a time. What great advice I can share with him: What it means is that it is more important for your son than for others to make life choices that lessen his levels of stress rather than making everything worse.

Who knew being a mother could be such a challenge on a regular basis even after they turn 18.

All of you got me thinking back, he always called me 2-3x a day to vent or talk, which drove me crazy. Now I understand, he needs to do this to keep his sanity and get advice.

BecksA- Let me glimpse into the mind of a manipulator. When loved ones catch on to your game, do you stop manipulating that person or do you try harder?

To anyone who has been lied to or manipulated. Trick, next time you catch them doing this to you, don't let them know you are aware of it. Instead play along, watch their faces, listen to what they are saying and watch their body movements. They will do something that will be a dead giveaway, making you smarter.

cram315 (Say a prayer for my son, that he grows up)

Ahhhh cram ~ Bigger kids, bigger problems. Mine is 25 and I doubt I'll ever stop worrying if his stability is going to come to a screeching halt!!

Hopefully this experience will be enough to kick him into gear and help him realize he is only hurting himself by not following treatment as prescribed, etc.

That's pretty much what happened with my son. He checked himself into a mental hospital, then asked to be released and talked the staff of pdocs into releasing him -- I think he was there 27 hours, the bill was something like $12,000 and he vowed to himself that he would do whatever it took to never, ever have to return!! It took him a couple months to formulate a plan, he became clean and sober and has been doing well ever since. I hope this experience is that catalyst for your son.

Be glad he wants to talk to you!! That is a blessing even though it may not seem like it at times. :angel:

I will pray for him that he gets the meds he needs to become stable so he can start working on improving his life.

HUGS to you, MOM!!
:wave: Tsohl

I am paddling upstream here with spoons, not oars. Today is his third day out and he has been homeless since being out. I got bad ***** when I picked him up today. As you may remember my husband and him had an altercation before he ended up in the hospital and he isn't allowed back home but he needs to come back home. I need to babysit him till we get him out of the woods. Do you understand the need to babysit him because I do, I am not working with a normal mind here, I see it. I just can't get my husband to understand it, it is like dealing with a child. I don't want him to turn back towards drugs.

His meds are still off. All the programs he was supposed to be eligible for when he got released were never set up because his first social worker dropped the ball. He can't get his risperdol shot and so he upped his risperdol himself. His ICMS worker got him an appointment Wednesday to apply for partial programs, I don't know how soon we will get a pdoc appointment. Oddly enough I work for a pdoc but she is on vacation until the 15th. Can you believe the timing?

I need advice, I don't know what to do. Cram315

Oh, dear Cram....I am sooo sorry for the dilemma you are facing. I don't know where to begin to advise you....is there a mental health clinic in your area where you can get him seen a little faster??? Perhaps if you explain the situation of his just being released and without a supply of his meds they may be able to accommodate you???

If that doesn't get you anywhere perhaps bringing him to the hospital and telling them that he is a threat to himself and that you are worried about him will get him treated....at least they may give him a supply of meds until you can get an appointment for him with a good pdoc.

I am shocked that they would just leave him high & dry without any resources to help him out once he was released. It really stinks when the system seems to not even give a hoot about somebody like that.

The restraining order, that makes things sooo difficult. I don't know what to say about that....perhaps setting up a temporary housing where you can go to him each day to check up on things???:confused: I guess there are no relatives....it's a really difficult situation because I would imagine that this is putting a big strain on your marriage just trying to help your son out.

Thanks for sharing the manipulation info...I will try it out on my girls who seem to master it, however, they are not as good at it as they use to be.;)

Hang in there, Cram, and KNOW that we are here for you.

((((HUGS))))) & prayers ~ Goody:angel: :wave: