To be precise the 4th in 2 year and months of having this.

I don't know it it's over yet, and I'm going to describe it for you, to ask some questions if someone wants to answer or give an opinion.

Quick overview: It started on Nov 2004 strong BPPV like attack in the morning, generic VRT for a pretty much dizzy free 2005(aside from one BPPV like blip), and fropm Jan 2006 I started with a pretty much 24/7 cocktail of all other vestibular symptoms like: visual, unsteadiness, fog, pull down sensation, you know the drill.

This(yesterday's night) whas the second BPPV like blip in two monthes, yet milder, itr was the first ever that didn't happened when I woke up, I still feel uneasy about it but It's much milder now, I don't quite get the Home Epley, haven't done it ever.

Here is the drill, I finally can tell apart those attacks from the rest ant in all my dizzy feeling variations are like this:

1. BPPV like attack: 100% positional, it starts when I change my relative head position, mostly when I bend over. Aside from the first one(2004) where it was an inmediate and unbearable spinning sensation on pretty much every head movement, this blips kind of start a few seconds after I change position, and it's a spinning sensation which starts slow, and kind of gains intensity up to the point I felt like I was going to fall, or felt very I'll, with no other symptom associated but sometimes a mild visual spinning illusion. The positional nature of it, the "slow start" and the I'm going to fall if i don't change position nature of the spins, set this one apart from the rest.

2. Quick spin bursts: Sometimes relative to position, sometimes showing up out of the blue, this spinning like sensations are quite strong too but they start much more quickly than the BPPV like attack, and they also stop much quickly. I don't feel like falling because they are too fast to get me there, even as sometimes they feel strong like hell.

3.Unsteadiness, mostly felt on my head or on my relative point of support(feet, hips when I'm sitting down), It's like a feelñing drunk sway which feels "permanent" and it's stronger when associated with eye, head or body motion, in one feet or narrow stances, it can give extra trouble, curiously it feels stronger sitting down, but(don't know why) it disappears when I'm sitting down on the car driving. I will add the pull down(forward, back, left and right)sensation to this category

4. Visual: Drom oscillating and jumping vision to visual lock, where driving trough tunnels watching LCD's or moving patterns like electric stairways make me feel ill, this visual oddities can appear with or without associated fog or unsteadiness.

5. Fog: Unreal sensation of being wathing everything through glasses, dificult concentration, light sensitivity.

The spins mostly feel like in the opposite direction to my "bad ear", but not always, and I have an "eternal ear clogging" due to a perennial state or allergies, whcih I've had all my life, and years without the added spinning symptoms.

I have a caloric test detected right ear dysfunction, allergies history and miagraine history, where I bet on VN complicated by both of the conditios mentioned above.

Even on my first caloric test I was already well compensated and the doc thought it will be over within months, but I'm more than a year before, having symptoms.

Finally(sorry for the length) here are the questions:

1. Does the BPPV like attack sound to you like BPPV? and if it's not BPPV could it be triggered by something else? MAV? Recurrent VN?

2. I haven't tried The Home Epley because I didn't quite get it from the sticky, and was kind of afraid because I've read that it might trigger some BPPV like sypmtoms when done wrong or without supervision, and when you don't really have a BPPV attack. I tried Brandt ones, but I believe those are mostly habituation exercises, and can cause the same induced BPPV or neck trouble I mentioned above.

3. Never, even in my worst BPPV like blips and attacks, I've tested positive on Dix-Hallpike, even as Michelle(balancechicago) mentioned that brain can compensate so fast that BPPV might me masked quickly, without beign dettected on the test.

So as you can see, what worries me, besides of the length of my condition(more than two years), is the possibility of have this step backs after so long, where I fear the worst from them.

I must say that even as I was already well compensated when my ear problem was oficially detected, I've advanced in balance with my exercises up to the point where I can stand makeng alot of full head circles in a close stance without feeling like falling(something that happened in the begining=, and I can make a modified romberg(one feet in ftont of the other eyes closed) for a pretty much longer time than before.

Haven't got any hearing loss detected, but I have some ocassional cloughing and pressure which feels like it lowers my hearing for some seconds, without staying there, and even having some extra(ocasional too) sound sensitivity.

Even so, I haven't feel a relevant improvement on my dizzy spells and symptoms with this relative balance and hjabituation improvement.

Any thoughts? Opinions? All are welcome.

PS

I forgot to mention that I'm quite tired(an exhausting week), and my allergic condition is a point above the usual, where I migh eben om some respiratory infection(not 100% sure). And I also iek to mention than taking NSAID's(naproxen and/or ibuprofen) sometimes helps me a lot with this blips, and sometimes even in a general way with my symptoms.

Hi Stargrave

Lets take this one step at a time.

Assume(u have--pretty good indications) its BPPV---if the rocks are going in and out of the canal---they can cause a multitude of balance problems---while their bouncing in and out---and for quite a while after their completely out---forever......

Your "Primary" indicator is:

...."100% positional, it starts when I change my relative head position,"...

Until u resove,i.e., make sure the canal is clear and stays clear....ur not going to get past step one---the chances of u introducing problems(more then u got now) with the MEP---is possible---but not likely:

---first.

Have you down loaded the MEP video(#2) from the "Sticky" if so---what don't you get?

:cool:

Thanks for the reply subs.

I'm confident that if you say so it's fair and safe to do the MEP. I have downloaded the videos, I have some questions, are those maneuvers for the left or right ear?, and it is safe to try both, when I'm not sure which ear is the one affected(my obvious bet is on the right)

One more thing, abusing of your kindness, does, exhaustion, a stressful week, or even some cold/sinus trouble, can precipitate a BPPV episode? or none of them is related?

Thanks.

PS

By the way I'm still unsteady but I woke up a lot better.

Hi

Video #2 shows a person who has a "Right Ear" injury. So she starts with the right ear.

If its a left ear injury you would just start with the left ear.

If I was you i would do them only for one---in your case---the "Right"

Follow the downloded written instructions---for the MEP---for the right ear....

For BPPV---it is a positional problem that triggers it---however---since you or anyone---can not monitor every move u make all the time---it is easy to position ur self for it to happen---without knowing---u did it....especially when u have a cold, etc....

:cool:

Thanks again subs.

If I feel in a BPPV like state again I'll give it a try to the MEP and see what happens.

One last doubt on the subject... Having VN, or any other vestibular dysfunction, colds, allergies and/or Migraine, is a factor that might increase the chance of a BPPV attack, or those are not related at all?

The only coincidence in all my BPPV like episodes is a previous or current(at the time of the attack) cold/sinus like condition which, on the other hand, in my case is pretty much permanent, so I can't tell how much of a factor it could be for this, even as I truly believe that all the liquid drained do my ear because or my nose congestion, can't do any good in there.

Thanks again subs.

If I feel in a BPPV like state again I'll give it a try to the MEP and see what happens.

One last doubt on the subject... Having VN, or any other vestibular dysfunction, colds, allergies and/or Migraine, is a factor that might increase the chance of a BPPV attack, or those are not related at all?

The only coincidence in all my BPPV like episodes is a previous or current(at the time of the attack) cold/sinus like condition which, on the other hand, in my case is pretty much permanent, so I can't tell how much of a factor it could be for this, even as I truly believe that all the liquid drained do my ear because or my nose congestion, can't do any good in there.

Hi

Yes VN, etc...weaken the ear---let rocks slide out---etc...

U have nothing to lose---doing the MEP---even if its not BPPV---if it is---u win---if it isn't u win---because--u have eliminated it(BPPV)...

None of the tests---really---pin any of this Junk down---it is more of a hit and miss---and gut reaction on ur part---that will nail it---prob not a Doc...

When u do the MEP---make sure u follow the written instructions for the "Right" ear and watch Video #2...

:cooL:

Hey Stargrave
I would consider doing the MEP for the right ear even if you are not currently exhibiting any acute symptoms. It's like Subs said, until the rocks are you you won't pass step one.
I have had three BPPV attacks, one, my first, was major and took me almost 2 montsh to figure out what was wrong with me (my ENT tested me in the office and like you I didn't show any positive reactions to the various positional tests). The other two have been very minor blips, just a little sweeping visual spin which told me the rocks were on the move again. In both secondary attacks I immediately did the MEP and the problem was solved. The recurrences happened a year apart..was at 100% in between.
The MEP will not mess anything up, so I concurr with subs, you have nothing to lose.
FC

Hey Stargrave,

I think Scott recently posted an article on here about the relationship btwn migraine and bppv. If ytou do a search with his name I'm sure you will find it. There have definitely been very strong connections made between people with MAV and bppv. Scott knows more about this - he recently saw a neurotologist who diagnosed him with MAV on the strength of the BPPV attack he'd just had. Obviously this is not to say everyone with BPPV has migraine, it's obvious from this board that, that isn't the case. Just that migraine can bring BPPV on.

I notice you mentioned light sensitivity and some momentary hearing loss and hyperacusis. All of these are also migraine symptoms. I don't know whether migraine is complicating your Vn along with the allergies, or whether you just have MAV, but I would be honest, with your history of migraine and the length of time you've been ill, I would be thinking seriously about taking a migraine preventative. A bit like Subs and Firechicks advice about the MEP, I think that you have little to lose with a migraine preventative. The chances are it may help you - although you might have to try a few to get the right one. Obviously the BPPV won't be cured by a migraine med, so you will need to do the MEP to clear up that problem.

Hope you feel better soon,

Thanks to all Firechick, Hbep, Subs.

Yep I agree with you all...

I have just so many indications for give it a try to MEP and at least an initial approach to MAV preventives to see what happens.

THis junk is all connected and I have all the background to almost prove this, so is just a matter to try both of this treatments to see what kind of efect do they have on me.

Have to confess that just out of fear I've delayed this,not because I don't want to give them a go, I sure do, but because of the fact that I've just recently hit a good streak at work, and since money wasn't on my side for some time, I've been just plain busy on that, and kind of coping up to a if not bearable, at least "workable" point, that is enough for me to keep going, so I didn't want to mess with this point of "equilibrium"

Obviously I end my day wasted because of the combination of this junk and the extra workload, but I don't have the luxury to be still right now.

But yes, B-2 is on my to do list, as well as the MEP, and I can almost bet that both of them will give me great results, and now, after all thistime I kind of remember similar "blips" in the past, nothing so strong, nothing so endurig, and maybe that's why I didn't noticed it on full, or didn't put up much attention to this.

I'm sure that some MAV/BPPV tandem is working the hell out of me, not just because of the presence of obvious symptoms of both conditions in my case, and my migraine history, but also because of something I've learned here in the boards(even in this post as an example), that the brain can counter the effects of BPPV up to the point that it feels like it has passed, even as some rocks are in there jumping around making all kind of continous trouble.

So if you add a possible VN episode, and my perennial allergies, I must do somehting to counter this, unless I want to spend my whole life roaming in dizzyland.

Thanks again to all, I promise I'll give it a shot, since I've nothing to loose and much to gain, I'll keep you posted.

Thanks.

Hi Star,

I can't add much more as the others have covered it all well. The study Hbep referred to found that in those subjects with idiopathic BPPV (ie, no known cause), migraine was the most powerful predictor being 3 folder higher than all of the other factors in the model.

Just wondering if you've ever had clear cut nystagmus when you've felt the positional vertigo? Did your eyes pulse in a particular direction?

Scott :cool:

Hi Scott, glad you post here too.

On Migraine and it's co-morbid relationships I've also read that it can even be connected, in some way with allergies... so, it is really a plague...

An on this particular subject I'd add that almost all the time I have some blip, or attack, I'm in the middle of a cold/allergy of sort, and most of them, when I feel worst, made me feel both sore and itchy right below my ears, where I thing some ganglia is. And sometimes, as I've stated before NSAIDs and Clarytin-D give me some relief.

On the eye jerking, or movement, I really couldn't tell, I've felt some eye opening, as if I try to open wide to "catch balance", but no specific movement that I could identify.

I do can tell that the spins feel counterclockwise in opposite direction from my "bad ear", and visually my main symptoms are oscillating or umping visuals, sometimes with or without a fake motion sensation associated, meaning that sometimes the visual movement caught me by surprise with no other feeling associated, but sometimes it mixes up with this fake motion unbalance, like being drunk, and it all feels like if the world is in a blender.

But back again to the nystagmus I could tell by a guess that it could be in the bar ear's direction, because I do have it, just can't tell you the exact direction, because it was well registered on my caloric test, where they gave me the spins.

Hi, have you been tested for Vertigo of Central Origin? That's what I have and it took about 3 years for the Dr's to finally figure it out. Make sure to rule this one out, it is important. My Balance Dr said that Nystagmus is also due to my Vertigo of Central Origin. So you may want to ask. If you do have what I have, its coming from your brain so the meclazine and etc...wont help..so I hope I've helped ya the best I can, Im kinda new at this thing...:)

Hi Upssi

Well I haven't been tested specifically for a central origin vertigo, and as I told Scott I don't even know where my nystagmus is headed, I can tell that my visual fields pulls more to the left when I experience visual movement, but thats it.

Nevertheless I was tested in all sorts of tests, ENG, calorics, ******s hall pike, audiometry, posturography, and lots of battery tests for central causes I think, testing coordination, reflexes, smell, skin perception, and such, I believe to discard central causes, but I don't know if there is something else for that.

But If I do happen to have MAV, well that is a central origin vertigo, that combined with whathever is wropng in my ear, it gives me hell.

I'm yet so have my second, third actually, appointment with neurotologyst, to see how are things going, but because it could take some time to get there(social services here), I'm going to try MEP, VRT variations and an entry lever MAV treatment (B-2 vitamin) to see what happens, because all of them are harmless, and I got nothing to loose.

Thanks for your input.