sandollar
08-13-2007, 12:40 AM
Today I started the Morphine 60mg, and nothing, nada... Does it takes time or what? I'm not sure what to think. Jumping from Lortab 10's to Morphine, I actually thought it would at least take away some of the pain, but it didn't do anything at all. This is so frustrating!!!!!!:confused:
Stardust
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sherry1
08-13-2007, 04:17 AM
Hi Stardust
My doctor put me on liquid Morphine 2 weeks ago.
4 5mg aday and it did nothing.
She said it shows that opiads dont work for me but wasnt really given an alternative.
Best wishes
My doctor put me on liquid Morphine 2 weeks ago.
4 5mg aday and it did nothing.
She said it shows that opiads dont work for me but wasnt really given an alternative.
Best wishes
Shoreline
08-13-2007, 08:29 AM
Hey Stardust, What version of morphine are you talking ? If it's Avinza where 60 mgs is spread over 24 hours, that would be comperable to 10 mg every 4 hours which is an exteremely low dose. I've seen plenty of conversions that have morphine closer to the strength of hydrocododne mg to mg than any other opiate due to poor oral metabolism.
It takes time to find the right dose but it doesn't build up in your system and work better the 5th day than the 2nd. 60 mgs of MSContin every 8 hours would be much stronger than 60 mgs of avinza every 24 hours, so the version or release sytem makes a big difference.
For Sherry, who's quack determined she wasn't responsive to a whopping 5 mg dose is just nuts. I doubt an opiate naive person would be impressed with 5mgs of oral morphine, it's no stronger than a 5 mg Hydrocodone.
Docs start with the lowest dose posible and a 5 mg dose of oral morphine borders on a plecebo dose it'sso low, Doubling it with a 60 mg avinza isn't that much stronger. Every doc has their own opinion though, and it's tough to change a docs opinon, If prescribing 15 mgs of morphine a day makes a doc uncomfortable, I doubt they have many patients that use opiates at all. The old non responsive to opiates based on the tiniest dose possible, really isn't that convincing. If you claimed not to get any relief from 300-400 mgs of morphine a day, you might consider a diferent med, But 5 mgs 3 times a day? That's just nuts.
Good luck, Dave
It takes time to find the right dose but it doesn't build up in your system and work better the 5th day than the 2nd. 60 mgs of MSContin every 8 hours would be much stronger than 60 mgs of avinza every 24 hours, so the version or release sytem makes a big difference.
For Sherry, who's quack determined she wasn't responsive to a whopping 5 mg dose is just nuts. I doubt an opiate naive person would be impressed with 5mgs of oral morphine, it's no stronger than a 5 mg Hydrocodone.
Docs start with the lowest dose posible and a 5 mg dose of oral morphine borders on a plecebo dose it'sso low, Doubling it with a 60 mg avinza isn't that much stronger. Every doc has their own opinion though, and it's tough to change a docs opinon, If prescribing 15 mgs of morphine a day makes a doc uncomfortable, I doubt they have many patients that use opiates at all. The old non responsive to opiates based on the tiniest dose possible, really isn't that convincing. If you claimed not to get any relief from 300-400 mgs of morphine a day, you might consider a diferent med, But 5 mgs 3 times a day? That's just nuts.
Good luck, Dave
jzimmerman
08-13-2007, 10:09 AM
i actually went from lorcet, to duragesic, them to ms contin 30mg 2x a day. The first time i took it, i became extremely nausea, but nothing some phenergan wouldnt help. I dont know if that was because teh duragesic was still in my system also, or because it was my frist time to take morphine, besides having it in the hospital by IV.....no i can take the morphine, with no problem, but dont really notice any significant pain relief. Works better than the duragesic for sure, but still The lorcet works better, just wears off quicker. Dont know what the deal is, i for some reason have an extremely high tolerance to ALL medications, even though i have never really been on any meds before. Guess because i am a bigger guy. who knows.
sandollar
08-13-2007, 01:49 PM
Yes, it is Avinza 60mg long acting, one every 24 hours. I have to wait 4 weeks before seeing him again, unless of course if it makes me sick, then he will see me right away.
He seems to favor tiny doses of Methadone (which made me sick) and he favors this 60mg of Avinza.
I was on the Fentynal Patch before (not with him) and it worked, but everytime I mention it he changes the subject. He also won't discuss Lortab either, I was only still on it because I had enough left that he wanted me to use up before putting me on something else. He also seems to worry about the DEA??? if he prescribes to many things to fast.
I had no pain with Meth, but I was terribly sick, my voice deepened and everytime Itried to talk I began to cry and I would ALWAYS Hyperventilate and I had never done that before, so he took me off the meth.
I could get more relief with 3 10mg Lortabs. But I don't have anymore.
The only thing I can think of is either he has to really increase the Avinza or put me on the patch. But I don't know how to ask him.
If I took 3- 10mg Lortabs and it was perfect, how much Avinza would I need???
I just want out of pain, not all drugged up, Right now the back, knee's and Sciatic nerve is so bad, I have a hard time trying to sit on the toilet to pee! :confused:
Stardust
He seems to favor tiny doses of Methadone (which made me sick) and he favors this 60mg of Avinza.
I was on the Fentynal Patch before (not with him) and it worked, but everytime I mention it he changes the subject. He also won't discuss Lortab either, I was only still on it because I had enough left that he wanted me to use up before putting me on something else. He also seems to worry about the DEA??? if he prescribes to many things to fast.
I had no pain with Meth, but I was terribly sick, my voice deepened and everytime Itried to talk I began to cry and I would ALWAYS Hyperventilate and I had never done that before, so he took me off the meth.
I could get more relief with 3 10mg Lortabs. But I don't have anymore.
The only thing I can think of is either he has to really increase the Avinza or put me on the patch. But I don't know how to ask him.
If I took 3- 10mg Lortabs and it was perfect, how much Avinza would I need???
I just want out of pain, not all drugged up, Right now the back, knee's and Sciatic nerve is so bad, I have a hard time trying to sit on the toilet to pee! :confused:
Stardust
Shoreline
08-14-2007, 01:23 AM
Hey stardust, when you said 3 10 mg hydro's do you mean 3 at a time or 2 a day. The bottom line is every body responds differentlyy to every med. Although the meth helped the pain, it sure doesn't sound like the side effects made you more functional and that's just as impoertant as pain relief. As far as ) pain with meth that's not a realistic goal, of he was willing to use meth is there a happy medium of pain you can cope with and les side efects from a lower dose. That's pretty much auniversal problem when it comes to ) pain. ) pain issn't hard to achieve but at what expense, they can keep you sedated and pain free but that's no way to live so it's not a reasonable goal. Rather than the first thing your doc hears is that you want an increase or the avinza isn't working, I owould talk to your doc about his goals of pain management and make sure your both on the same page. If his goal is to relieve 50% of your pain and the old doc was happy to relieve all your pain but it left you unable to function, you have to find some middle ground.
A starting dose is just that, somewhere safe to start. My starting dose of the pump was 1/10 of where we finsihed titrating 6 months later. My stating dose of morphine was 1/3 of where I ended up 2 months after switching from meth,. so starting low and working up is common practice. More info about the hydro would help, but it may be that you simply respond to synthetics beter, although you can hardly tell with the first dose he tries. Docs do want to see you give things a fair trial but eis nothing wrong with calling in a couple weeks and asking if they have a cancelation can you be seen any sooner. Docs really should expect to see patients more frequently when they change a med.
unfortunateley, the nature of CP is it's a long lasting problem and taking 3-4 months to get a dose right isn't a long period of time compared to the rest of your ife of years of continued pain. Fast relief would be nice, just not realistic. As far as the DEA, I would be concerned if the doc wasn't concerned about the DEA. You don't want to show up for an apt and find yellow tape across the doors and your medical file as evidence in a case to shut a doc down that became known as a soft touch among the PM and drug communicty. Even you are the most ligit patient an non legit doc has, you get lumped together with the scandal and finding a doc because your doc lost his licence makes finding a doc even harder and casts a suspect shadow onevery patient the doc saw even if he never prescibed anything abnormal to treat you. Other docs won't get that chance to review your records if the DEA has them. So PM docs should be concerend and more than willing to be as compliant as the DEA wants and demand compliance from every patient. There doing something no other doc is willing to do and this draws attn to their prescibing. It''s just how it is.
Good luck, Dave
A starting dose is just that, somewhere safe to start. My starting dose of the pump was 1/10 of where we finsihed titrating 6 months later. My stating dose of morphine was 1/3 of where I ended up 2 months after switching from meth,. so starting low and working up is common practice. More info about the hydro would help, but it may be that you simply respond to synthetics beter, although you can hardly tell with the first dose he tries. Docs do want to see you give things a fair trial but eis nothing wrong with calling in a couple weeks and asking if they have a cancelation can you be seen any sooner. Docs really should expect to see patients more frequently when they change a med.
unfortunateley, the nature of CP is it's a long lasting problem and taking 3-4 months to get a dose right isn't a long period of time compared to the rest of your ife of years of continued pain. Fast relief would be nice, just not realistic. As far as the DEA, I would be concerned if the doc wasn't concerned about the DEA. You don't want to show up for an apt and find yellow tape across the doors and your medical file as evidence in a case to shut a doc down that became known as a soft touch among the PM and drug communicty. Even you are the most ligit patient an non legit doc has, you get lumped together with the scandal and finding a doc because your doc lost his licence makes finding a doc even harder and casts a suspect shadow onevery patient the doc saw even if he never prescibed anything abnormal to treat you. Other docs won't get that chance to review your records if the DEA has them. So PM docs should be concerend and more than willing to be as compliant as the DEA wants and demand compliance from every patient. There doing something no other doc is willing to do and this draws attn to their prescibing. It''s just how it is.
Good luck, Dave
sandollar
08-14-2007, 10:29 AM
Shore,
That makes alot of sense, Finally things are making ALOT more sense after your post. I was refereing to 3 -10mg lortabs at one time, and when they wear off, 3 more. Right now I take the Avenza in the morning and by 6pm I am having withdrawal from something, shaking, iritable, not sleeping, etc. I am guessing it's from the lortabs, maybe I just have to suffer with it for awhile and adjust to the Morphine.
Maybe I need to give it more time, or maybe I should let him know about this withdrawal. I'm not sure. any advice?
Stardust
That makes alot of sense, Finally things are making ALOT more sense after your post. I was refereing to 3 -10mg lortabs at one time, and when they wear off, 3 more. Right now I take the Avenza in the morning and by 6pm I am having withdrawal from something, shaking, iritable, not sleeping, etc. I am guessing it's from the lortabs, maybe I just have to suffer with it for awhile and adjust to the Morphine.
Maybe I need to give it more time, or maybe I should let him know about this withdrawal. I'm not sure. any advice?
Stardust
Shoreline
08-15-2007, 03:55 AM
Hi Stardust, 30 mgs of hydro at a time is much stronger than 60 mgs of morphine spread over 24 hours. Personally I don't know your doc or his rules so it's hard to give advice.
If he wasn't aware you were taing that much, the conversion is even tougher to do corectly and a bit of a problem to explain. I would call the nurses line and at least let them know your having problems or flolow whatever his protocol is. Personally I tried to give each dose at least 2 weeks before calling to truly allow the new med to work. If you happen to be in a flair right now it makes it hard to set the base dose, so a little time allows you to figure out if it's you or the dose.
Good luck, Dave
If he wasn't aware you were taing that much, the conversion is even tougher to do corectly and a bit of a problem to explain. I would call the nurses line and at least let them know your having problems or flolow whatever his protocol is. Personally I tried to give each dose at least 2 weeks before calling to truly allow the new med to work. If you happen to be in a flair right now it makes it hard to set the base dose, so a little time allows you to figure out if it's you or the dose.
Good luck, Dave
sandollar
08-15-2007, 11:14 AM
Yes, he knew how much I was taking, that's why he wants me on something once a day and long acting, he told me to take the third one as long as it helped. He was wanting me to finish off the Lortabs so he could start something different.
I'll let it go for now and give it time, as I am sure he is going to increase it at my appointment, and I'll just try to adjust to this med and dosage.
Thanks,
Stardust
I'll let it go for now and give it time, as I am sure he is going to increase it at my appointment, and I'll just try to adjust to this med and dosage.
Thanks,
Stardust
Nu2patch
08-23-2007, 03:01 PM
Hi Stardust,
how r u doing now? any better? ive been told to start the ms cotin 30mg after being on the patch 50 mg down from 75 mg. Im so scared to start. Dr. didnt say to take my patch off first or use them both till i tirate down more on the patch maybe? he to busy of a dr to get a work in edge wise. so here i am debating what i should do. Pharmisist says its my call what i feel comfortable with, big help.
Thanks,
Nu2patch:angel: :D :confused:
how r u doing now? any better? ive been told to start the ms cotin 30mg after being on the patch 50 mg down from 75 mg. Im so scared to start. Dr. didnt say to take my patch off first or use them both till i tirate down more on the patch maybe? he to busy of a dr to get a work in edge wise. so here i am debating what i should do. Pharmisist says its my call what i feel comfortable with, big help.
Thanks,
Nu2patch:angel: :D :confused:
sandollar
08-23-2007, 05:46 PM
I am doing much better now, Thank You!
I can see he didn't give you much to go on as far as information or how to do this. You might want to ask your Pharmacist when you go for your patch refill, to give it to you in 25's, this way you can begin both meds and after a week or so then drop down to the 25's for a week, and see if you can take them both with minimal withdrawal. Then stop the patch completely.
When I went off my patches, I left them on longer and longer, tricking my body into thinking it was getting the same dose, after 4-5 days, if I felt some withdrawal, then switched to the lower one. It was much easier that way.
When are you due to refill your 50's? I would ask the Pharmacist for the 25's. You would still get enough to use 2 patches to equal 50's. But when your comfortable, then drop down to 25, then stop them like he wants you to do.
I hope this helps,
Stardust
I can see he didn't give you much to go on as far as information or how to do this. You might want to ask your Pharmacist when you go for your patch refill, to give it to you in 25's, this way you can begin both meds and after a week or so then drop down to the 25's for a week, and see if you can take them both with minimal withdrawal. Then stop the patch completely.
When I went off my patches, I left them on longer and longer, tricking my body into thinking it was getting the same dose, after 4-5 days, if I felt some withdrawal, then switched to the lower one. It was much easier that way.
When are you due to refill your 50's? I would ask the Pharmacist for the 25's. You would still get enough to use 2 patches to equal 50's. But when your comfortable, then drop down to 25, then stop them like he wants you to do.
I hope this helps,
Stardust