MSNik
08-22-2007, 04:37 PM
Hey chicky...how have you been? I seem to remember a thread not too long ago, where this guy was giving out all sorts of info on supplements and amounts of mgs he was taking, and he made PERFECT SENSE. Unfortuantely, I havent seen him on the board since then, and I cant find the thread!
Last night, while taking my 2 handfulls of suplements I started thinking (as I noticed I was running out of fish oil) that there HAS to be another way to take Fish Oil, Flaxseed Oil and whatever other oils we need, besides taking them invdividuallly. SO today I went to the local vitamin shop and inquired. There is something called OMEGA 3-6-9, which DOES say on it that the fish oil does NOT contain any heavy metals, and it does break down the different ingrediants. My problem is that I didnt have the energy or mind set to write down what was in it, how much, etc. I also didnt have my list on me of how many mgs Im taking now....(duh, an MS moment)
Have you heard of these multi Omega pills? Would you happen to have ANY info on maximum or suggested mgs for the different ingrediants? IM sure that what was in this bottle was only minimum suggestions. I mean, if it says 2 capsules a day, I would probably take 2 capsules three times a day. Which would be fine, if it was enough in each serving...since Im in a total MS fog today, I cant figure out if it makes more sense to take these things individually, or try taking a multi pill to cover them all. Im sick and tired of swallowing 17 pills after each meal! Im even sicker of having to force myself to eat something when Im not hungry, just to take my supplements!
Thought on this? Id appreciate anything you might have to say...
hope all is well in the big city...things are wet and foggy ( for the 5th day in a row ) in lovely NJ.
Hugs,
N
PS. Stil not totally convinced that these things are helping, but totally convinced that they arent hurting! Since I have an MRI of both brain and spine (with and without contrast) a week from now, I figured I might as well stay with the program until early Sept when I see my Neuro to see whats going on in my head!
Last night, while taking my 2 handfulls of suplements I started thinking (as I noticed I was running out of fish oil) that there HAS to be another way to take Fish Oil, Flaxseed Oil and whatever other oils we need, besides taking them invdividuallly. SO today I went to the local vitamin shop and inquired. There is something called OMEGA 3-6-9, which DOES say on it that the fish oil does NOT contain any heavy metals, and it does break down the different ingrediants. My problem is that I didnt have the energy or mind set to write down what was in it, how much, etc. I also didnt have my list on me of how many mgs Im taking now....(duh, an MS moment)
Have you heard of these multi Omega pills? Would you happen to have ANY info on maximum or suggested mgs for the different ingrediants? IM sure that what was in this bottle was only minimum suggestions. I mean, if it says 2 capsules a day, I would probably take 2 capsules three times a day. Which would be fine, if it was enough in each serving...since Im in a total MS fog today, I cant figure out if it makes more sense to take these things individually, or try taking a multi pill to cover them all. Im sick and tired of swallowing 17 pills after each meal! Im even sicker of having to force myself to eat something when Im not hungry, just to take my supplements!
Thought on this? Id appreciate anything you might have to say...
hope all is well in the big city...things are wet and foggy ( for the 5th day in a row ) in lovely NJ.
Hugs,
N
PS. Stil not totally convinced that these things are helping, but totally convinced that they arent hurting! Since I have an MRI of both brain and spine (with and without contrast) a week from now, I figured I might as well stay with the program until early Sept when I see my Neuro to see whats going on in my head!
Sponsor
parisiancat
08-23-2007, 07:08 AM
Hi Nikki,
Mind if I jump in here?
I have a book about the omega fats, but don't have it with me so I can't give you all the details (I'll look it up tonight). But I do know that omega 9 has very little nutritional value. Omega 6 is not as benefical as omega 3 (but it is also benefical to a certain extent) and your cells absorb omega 6 more easily than omega 3, so for MS patients, the omega 3 / 6 balance is really important.
Let me check the exact science and get back to you.
Cat x
PS: read an article yesterday about a study in Oregan on the effects of fish oil on MS. Results confirmed that it can provide a measure of relief.
Mind if I jump in here?
I have a book about the omega fats, but don't have it with me so I can't give you all the details (I'll look it up tonight). But I do know that omega 9 has very little nutritional value. Omega 6 is not as benefical as omega 3 (but it is also benefical to a certain extent) and your cells absorb omega 6 more easily than omega 3, so for MS patients, the omega 3 / 6 balance is really important.
Let me check the exact science and get back to you.
Cat x
PS: read an article yesterday about a study in Oregan on the effects of fish oil on MS. Results confirmed that it can provide a measure of relief.
MSNik
08-23-2007, 08:19 AM
Thanks Cat. Id like to hear what your book has to say...Im trying to do this to allieve the chronic pain I have in my left hand and fingers. The tingling/burning has been going on for a year now, and sometimes, I want to cut my hand off! People have suggested that increasing my Omegas MIGHT help to cut down on inflamation of the nerves...Im also taking Tumeric for the same reason. I take so many supplements....
Anyway, whatever you have to say, Id be glad to hear. THanks!
Nikki
Anyway, whatever you have to say, Id be glad to hear. THanks!
Nikki
parisiancat
08-24-2007, 06:42 AM
I knew that I had read (and follow in my diet) that you should increase omega 3 but decrease intake of omega 6. But I couldn't remember why. So I did look it up last night and in three separate books found this information:
Omega 3 works to supress immune system disorders.
Omega 6 provokes inflammation.
So I definitely would not be supplementing omega 6!
If you want to read up on it, the books are 'Fats that Heal; Fats that Kill', 'The Omega Plan', 'Taking Control of MS; Natural and Medical Therapies'. The first one is very scientific (too much so for me) but it's also has very detailed explainations.
I also read last night that olive oil has good anti-imflammatory properties.
I think one of the hardest things about treating MS is not seeing immediate or verifiable results. It seems the best you can hope for is to not get worse. So whether you're taking handfulls of supplements, giving up your favourite foods for a vegan diet (me!), injecting yourself with inteferons - it's not like many other illnesses where you eventually feel better. Even when you do get some relief you dont know if it was the drugs, or the supplements, or the cooler weather, or because you're less stressed, or because you ate brocolli this week! Grrrr.
I do hope you find some relief soon. I definitely noticed an improvement in my hand (which was not as bad as yours) after about 4 months. But like I said above - I can't even say for sure it was the omega 3 that made the difference. But I believe it was a factor.
Cat
Omega 3 works to supress immune system disorders.
Omega 6 provokes inflammation.
So I definitely would not be supplementing omega 6!
If you want to read up on it, the books are 'Fats that Heal; Fats that Kill', 'The Omega Plan', 'Taking Control of MS; Natural and Medical Therapies'. The first one is very scientific (too much so for me) but it's also has very detailed explainations.
I also read last night that olive oil has good anti-imflammatory properties.
I think one of the hardest things about treating MS is not seeing immediate or verifiable results. It seems the best you can hope for is to not get worse. So whether you're taking handfulls of supplements, giving up your favourite foods for a vegan diet (me!), injecting yourself with inteferons - it's not like many other illnesses where you eventually feel better. Even when you do get some relief you dont know if it was the drugs, or the supplements, or the cooler weather, or because you're less stressed, or because you ate brocolli this week! Grrrr.
I do hope you find some relief soon. I definitely noticed an improvement in my hand (which was not as bad as yours) after about 4 months. But like I said above - I can't even say for sure it was the omega 3 that made the difference. But I believe it was a factor.
Cat
MSNik
08-24-2007, 10:21 AM
Thanks Cat.
I read what you wrote, and your references, and then did some research on my own about Omega 6. Im not seeing anywhere that they provoke inflamation, and did see that they are used for things like Rheumetoid Arthritis and eye disorders. It was my Neuro-Opth who suggested I started using flax seed, Omega 6 supplement, to try to avoid the eye problems I was having...
Im not sure that anyone really knows what combination really helps. I do think since I addded the Omegas, Ive seen a small difference in the pain; however, it could be imagined.
Thanks for taking the time to get back to me. I appreciate it very much. Hope you have a good day!
Nikki
I read what you wrote, and your references, and then did some research on my own about Omega 6. Im not seeing anywhere that they provoke inflamation, and did see that they are used for things like Rheumetoid Arthritis and eye disorders. It was my Neuro-Opth who suggested I started using flax seed, Omega 6 supplement, to try to avoid the eye problems I was having...
Im not sure that anyone really knows what combination really helps. I do think since I addded the Omegas, Ive seen a small difference in the pain; however, it could be imagined.
Thanks for taking the time to get back to me. I appreciate it very much. Hope you have a good day!
Nikki
Bearygood
08-26-2007, 06:00 PM
A small study but this is the conclusion of a new study done by the Oregon Health & Science University and the VA Medical Center in Portland. 10 MS patients receive 9.6 grams of fish oil per day. After 90 days, there was a 58% decrease in MMP-9 levels secreted from the MS patients' immune cells, as well as a significant increase in EPA and DHA levels in the patient's red blood cell membranes. If you do a "news" search for this one of the articles should come up since this is NEW news. I titled the article I saw in the retitled thread.
Nikki, as long as you're getting the minimum essentials and nothing contradicts each other, it should be okay. That said, there are other benefits of some of the individual oils because there are different properties but everything seems to point to fish oil being the most important if you're going to choose between fish and flax seed oil. It's more easily assimilated and used in the body. I do feel strongly about Evening Primrose Oil (Omega 6) for myself because it also is supposed to help balance hormones and also may help depression. The Omegas are more complicated than I really understand but again, different properties, different ways they're assimilated in the body (the molecular "chains" etc.) and there is also an optimal ratio -- if you research this enough you'll definitely learn more but it can also make your head spin! I did just look at Barleans products before I hit "post" and they have a 3-6-9 that looks interesting. (They're pretty much the leader in the flax seed oil business and now make other oil products.) Maybe it's not a bad idea to do a reputable 3-6-9 and then supplement above and beyond that with other things -- the Omega 6 they use is Borage. I know that Borage is often used instead of Evening Primrose. Okay, so you've just given me more to research and maybe I'll be taking a smaller handful when it's time for me to stock up again! But of course, add up the dosages on all -- doing that with my vitamin D3 drives me crazy! There is only one brand I have found that won't make me overdose on vitamin A! Re: Omega 6 and inflammation, I HAVE seen something about this but I believe it's the ratio and if it's taken dominantly, and in the ABSENCE of Omega 3s but in tandem, it helps. There is a lot about Omega 6s and ANTI-inflammation.
More than the web, I need to sit down in a bookstore and read -- I'm sure there's an "Understanding Your Omegas" book somewhere!
Nikki, as long as you're getting the minimum essentials and nothing contradicts each other, it should be okay. That said, there are other benefits of some of the individual oils because there are different properties but everything seems to point to fish oil being the most important if you're going to choose between fish and flax seed oil. It's more easily assimilated and used in the body. I do feel strongly about Evening Primrose Oil (Omega 6) for myself because it also is supposed to help balance hormones and also may help depression. The Omegas are more complicated than I really understand but again, different properties, different ways they're assimilated in the body (the molecular "chains" etc.) and there is also an optimal ratio -- if you research this enough you'll definitely learn more but it can also make your head spin! I did just look at Barleans products before I hit "post" and they have a 3-6-9 that looks interesting. (They're pretty much the leader in the flax seed oil business and now make other oil products.) Maybe it's not a bad idea to do a reputable 3-6-9 and then supplement above and beyond that with other things -- the Omega 6 they use is Borage. I know that Borage is often used instead of Evening Primrose. Okay, so you've just given me more to research and maybe I'll be taking a smaller handful when it's time for me to stock up again! But of course, add up the dosages on all -- doing that with my vitamin D3 drives me crazy! There is only one brand I have found that won't make me overdose on vitamin A! Re: Omega 6 and inflammation, I HAVE seen something about this but I believe it's the ratio and if it's taken dominantly, and in the ABSENCE of Omega 3s but in tandem, it helps. There is a lot about Omega 6s and ANTI-inflammation.
More than the web, I need to sit down in a bookstore and read -- I'm sure there's an "Understanding Your Omegas" book somewhere!
MSNik
08-26-2007, 08:06 PM
HI Chicky. Was wondering what happened to you, where ya been? I hope you have been healthy!
Anyway, thanks. Ive been overwhelmed with all this information. Last week, my dermatologist told me to think about starting a gluten free diet as well. She gave me info on something she read which is for both adult cystic acne, which I experience every few months, and MS !! Today, I bought gluten free bread, its a start...but already, im thinking theres no way I can live without all my carbs, etc. I just cant do it. For someone who weighs 110 lbs, I still eat pizza, donuts, and other crap that I just wont give up. (I just do it in moderation!) But, ill start with the bread and the one box of pasta I bought to try and see if I can at least stick to that for a few weeks...
The fish oil stuff is maddening. I have been reading more than I want to on different brands, etc. I need to get some TOMORROW but was hoping to do more of a 3-6-9 thing. I dont think its going to work. Im taking flaxseed as my 6- and I think Ill stay on it another month...fish oil though is so iffy...some sites say to take one amount, others say to take a different amount...almost all of them talk about liquids, I refuse to take liquids, I have to take the pills...so im overwhelmed yet again.
Thanks, though, for taking the time....I appreciate what you wrote. Hope all is well.
Nikki
Anyway, thanks. Ive been overwhelmed with all this information. Last week, my dermatologist told me to think about starting a gluten free diet as well. She gave me info on something she read which is for both adult cystic acne, which I experience every few months, and MS !! Today, I bought gluten free bread, its a start...but already, im thinking theres no way I can live without all my carbs, etc. I just cant do it. For someone who weighs 110 lbs, I still eat pizza, donuts, and other crap that I just wont give up. (I just do it in moderation!) But, ill start with the bread and the one box of pasta I bought to try and see if I can at least stick to that for a few weeks...
The fish oil stuff is maddening. I have been reading more than I want to on different brands, etc. I need to get some TOMORROW but was hoping to do more of a 3-6-9 thing. I dont think its going to work. Im taking flaxseed as my 6- and I think Ill stay on it another month...fish oil though is so iffy...some sites say to take one amount, others say to take a different amount...almost all of them talk about liquids, I refuse to take liquids, I have to take the pills...so im overwhelmed yet again.
Thanks, though, for taking the time....I appreciate what you wrote. Hope all is well.
Nikki
Bearygood
08-26-2007, 10:39 PM
Yup, been okay, Nikki -- just busy! I am very mixed about the gluten thing -- I feel STRONGLY that it's a factor for some but maybe not (or less) for others. I have cut down myself for sure and just for general health I think it's the right thing for me. Did you check out that pasta I told you about? Honest, it's the best one I found! I finally tried their spaghetti but I think the penne and fusilli are the best!
Don't get overwhelmed -- it's EASY to, I know! But you're doing a great job and as for coincidence, well, read that study I just posted about. You've started and although I've been doing it longer I'm still going to refine along the way. :)
Don't get overwhelmed -- it's EASY to, I know! But you're doing a great job and as for coincidence, well, read that study I just posted about. You've started and although I've been doing it longer I'm still going to refine along the way. :)
ezee
08-27-2007, 04:03 AM
parisiancat,
I do not have a dx as yet, other than Pernicious Anemia. The symptoms of that parallel those of MS. I wanted to let you know that a Vitamin B12 deficiency is rare, except in Vegans. Vegetarians do not eat the kinds of foods that have such an omni-presence of B12, and typically have to suppliment Vitamin B12 and others. I am new to this board, and PA (Pernicious Anemia), but this much I have been told by my Neurologist. You may already know this, but since I know many vegans who were not aware of this, I have become a bit of an evangelist.
I am also curious if anyone is aware if PA sufferers also have inability to absorb other nutrients besides B12. Thanks in advance. EZEE
I do not have a dx as yet, other than Pernicious Anemia. The symptoms of that parallel those of MS. I wanted to let you know that a Vitamin B12 deficiency is rare, except in Vegans. Vegetarians do not eat the kinds of foods that have such an omni-presence of B12, and typically have to suppliment Vitamin B12 and others. I am new to this board, and PA (Pernicious Anemia), but this much I have been told by my Neurologist. You may already know this, but since I know many vegans who were not aware of this, I have become a bit of an evangelist.
I am also curious if anyone is aware if PA sufferers also have inability to absorb other nutrients besides B12. Thanks in advance. EZEE
parisiancat
08-27-2007, 05:46 AM
Nikki - the oils and fats are so confusing. Just when I think I'm getting a handle on them, I read something that contradicts everything I thought and I'm back at square one.:dizzy:
As always, I post what I am doing, my understanding of the research I've read, and what I believe to be beneficial to me. I'm glad you did some research of your own, and your post has sent me back to the books to read some more! I knew that we need a certain amount of Omega 6, but perhaps I've underestimated it. I've read good and bad about it. Maybe it is all in the balance. :confused:
I've said it before, but when it comes to nuitrition and diet, there is so much information out there, no diet is the definitive diet, and everyone should be happy with why they are taking a particular supplement or leaving out a particular food group.
Ezee - I'm afraid I don't know anything about PA. I do take a Vitamen B complex though, thanks for that.
Cat
As always, I post what I am doing, my understanding of the research I've read, and what I believe to be beneficial to me. I'm glad you did some research of your own, and your post has sent me back to the books to read some more! I knew that we need a certain amount of Omega 6, but perhaps I've underestimated it. I've read good and bad about it. Maybe it is all in the balance. :confused:
I've said it before, but when it comes to nuitrition and diet, there is so much information out there, no diet is the definitive diet, and everyone should be happy with why they are taking a particular supplement or leaving out a particular food group.
Ezee - I'm afraid I don't know anything about PA. I do take a Vitamen B complex though, thanks for that.
Cat
MSNik
08-27-2007, 10:33 AM
Hi Cat. No problem mon!:D Dont mind me Im in a "dont worry, be happy" kind of mood. Its GORGEOUS out this morning and I have the day off! (if you consider taking my cat to the vet a day off). But anyway I agree with you, I DO think its all in the balance. Plan on going to the local health food store myself today to ask a few more questions and get a few more answers..if I learn anything new, Ill post later.
Have a great day.
Nikki
Have a great day.
Nikki