Hi all my friends, where i run to when im in turmoil.:D Most of you know about my son and his problem bp probably? on topamax and zoloft. Well, lately he has become that person he was but only on the weekends, strange but i do understand why...his couple of friends are away at college, he has no friends at home and is not socializing on the weekends and has become very depressed and full of anxiety again. And, the icing on the cake is his 18 yr old sister that is completely happy with her bf and was home for the weekend..my son acted like a complete lunatic , telling her that he doesnt want him in our home, making horrible comments in front of him humilating her and me so bad that she ran out of here.For no reason, her bf is a nice kid treats her like a queen. She now cant stand her brother and i cant blame her. he is so miserable and wants to make everybody that is happy miserable too. im am so sick and tired of this nonsense..what makes a 21 yr old have no self control? he cant control his negative actions and seems to not have a conscience? her b.f is a human being, a person and he treated him like an animal. To be honest i am so fed up with him i would love to have him move out of here. I told him that i would like to come to see his therapist with him this week. he will not allow it. What am i to do? i am so upset and so is my daughter..he is taking topamax for his moods, tried to lower it and than realized he needed to keep his dosage as it was. so he went back to it..he does know that he needs his medication. could it be time to add something? Im at my wits end..all i know is that i had enough of this behaviour and when i try to explain to him that hes acting outta control, he really, really doesnt see it..its truly like talking to a wall. he blames everybody else alwayss...im sorry, i guess i needed to vent..

Hey, Jules....it was getting pretty quiet around here, almost like the calm before the storm.;) I am sorry that everything seems to have escalated with your son. I think that you must know, as I do, how this all is due to the changes that have occurred over the past few weeks. The new job and starting with college again and change in itself. The boredom staring him in the face not having anything to do with his down time as if it is the worst thing in the world.

The decreasing of his Topamax couldn't have happened at a worse time!! With all that added stress and that decrease in his med I think the behavior that you see exhibited by your son has everything to do with it.

Not that it should be excused but also....your son may be also reacting to the loss of his sister to college and her BF. He had to lash out and went for the one who he needed to get out of the way. I am sure that he is also upset at seeing how your daughter's life is so balanced as compared to his. And that must be really upsetting him even more than he can possibly understand right now.

I think that you need to keep the home as tranquil a setting as possible. Try to take your daughter aside and talk to her about how this all may be affecting your son and how unaware he is of what he is saying and doing right now. At the same time acknowledge her feelings of hurt at how his behavior is hurtful and wrong but that in his condition he is unable to see it as so.

Let things settle down a bit with your son. If he becomes upset and angry make a suggestion in as calm a way that you can that he settle down in his room for a while until he rides it out. Does he have the ability to take some Seroquel when needed???? I would definitely encourage him to take the Topamax as prescribed and reassurre him that things should get better. Tell him that his behavior is not acceptable and it is hurtful....that you know that he is hurting himself but that doesn't give him the right to hurt others. That you want to help him and if he needs you that you are there. Make some suggestions such as "I know that starting a class and working are most likely putting more stress on you and perhaps talking to your pdoc and tdoc about this will allow them to make some adjustment with your meds so that it isn't such a difficult thing for you."

Give him some space and time.....encourage him to sleep and give him hope that you know that it will get better but he has to have the courage to talk to his pdoc and tdoc and if he needs you to help him that you are there for him.

Hopefully with that time and space as well as the Topamax back to the proper doseage, we will see some improvement.

We are here for you, Jules. You are a GREAT mom and I guess your son needs to know that he has your love and that everything is going to be alright. Right now he doesn't see it that way but hearing it from you may make a big difference.

(((((HUGS)))))) to a wonderful friend ~ Goody:angel: :wave:

yes goody everything you said makes sense..hes confused about alot of things and always had his sister around to watcha movie with..now, she iscompletely wrapped up in him for awhile..and has not been looking to hangout with her brother...so hes getting rejection from all sides.. but thsi is life he needs to learn to deal without creating bedlam around all of us..its not acceptable anymore..its getting old and tiresome. and frankly, i had enough and i wish he could find an apartment and move out.. we would all get some much needed peace...

Jules ~ I know how this sucks the life out of you but I also know that as much as you want your son out of your house you would still have as much inner turmoil as you are experiencing right now....I don't know, Jules, I would imagine that I would be feeling just as frustrated as you right now if my kids were 21 and still making life so stressful day in and day out. I have a few more years to go with Erin yet but Kait is almost there. I must say that when she is away it IS less stressful, I don't worry about her as much and there is definitely some truth to the saying "what you don't see won't hurt you."

So....perhaps you will have to set a deadline with your son and this could be possibly the final push to his taking ownership of all of this and his life.

What do you think???

I do know the turmoil that you are going through.....been there and done that!!;) But I am also seeing the results of staying strong & hopeful when I see how things have turned around for Erin. I know that they will for you and your son too....it's just a matter of time.....right???

Meanwhile...hopefully Tsohl will have some more insight to share. I forgot when she said that she would be back. She had the wedding and went to see the doctors and I am anxious to hear about the outcome of that.

Kait continues to do well...she actually says that she is too tired to go out like she did last year with this internship which I think is a good thing!! She continues with the Lamictal and increases to 100mgs on Thursday!!!:bouncing: That is about the time that Erin first started seeing a difference and I am hoping to here that from Kait as well. I am taking a low profile on things and she voluntarily tells me about her increases which I am happy to see.

My family is upset to hear that my brother had a setback when he had to get a central line put in for his meds and IV fluids to be given since the other line he had gave way. He went in yesterday. They had to give him some twilight sedation and when they did between that and the trauma to his central nervous system he went back into tremors.....was in and out of them for about 11 hours yesterday. Today they aren't as bad but he fell when PT tried to get him to a chair hitting his head. He is back on the oxygen and unable to walk or move without having those episodes. We are hoping that it is only temporary and that it won't take him so long to get back to how great he was doing before the surgery. He is still in the hospital and trying his best to get home again.

Well....I want you to know that I am thinking of you and your family. So your daughter is home again???? How are things going at college for her??? IT is obvious how much she is missing her BF!!:D I sure hope that she is able to work things out with your son before she goes back again. I know this must be killing you to see them upset with one another.

Vent all you want, Jules!! We all have our moments and it is good to be able to come here knowing that we have others who will understand.

Hang in there and know that I am right there beside you.

Love ~ Goody:angel: :wave:

Hi Jules,

I am sorry to hear that your son is having such a difficult time right now. Do you think he would reconsider and allow you to attend his tdoc appointment or at least email the therapist prior to the appointment? Of course my son is much younger, but his therapist either meets with me or emails me prior to each session just to get my perspective of how Drew is doing. It sounds like your son just doesn't have a lot of insight. I know it's much harder when they are over 18.

Also it sounds like your son is doing OK during the week but having more trouble on weekends. With his friends and sister away at school he is probably lonely and feeling sorry for himself. Could you and your husband plan some activities for him on the weekend just to keep him busy and help him get over this rough period? My husband and I have been doing this for several months with our son. He is doing better but is not socializing with his friends except at school and practice. We have been keeping him busy with family activities and although it is exausting at times we really are enjoying all the time we spend with him.

Is your son still working out? I know with Drew he gets really edgy if he doesn't get some exercise every day.

Hang in there Jules. You are a great mom and your son has come so far. Now that he has been clean for a while it might be a good time to reevaluate his dianosis and medications to see if a change would help him become more stable.

Goody, I'm sorry to hear about your brother. I will say a prayer for him and his family.

I have some exciting news to report. Drew is now an Uncle which makes me a Grandma. Our oldest dauhgter had a baby boy on Friday. Everyone is doing well and I must say that he is the most adorable newborn I have ever seen. They live about two hours north of us so I am hoping we will get to see him often.

Lor:)

Oh lor, congratulations.:blob_fire :bouncing: I do feel a little better this morning. my son was definitly quiet late last night and i could tell that he had some regrets about the way he acted..but, thats not good enough...today it looks like we will have to make a new set of rules for him to follow if he wants to continue living in our home.:(

Lor-Congratulations on your new grandson! How exciting! I hope you are able to enjoy many happy times with him and that Drew loves being an uncle!

Jules-I'm sorry that your son is going through a rough time, but as everyone else said, he is probably realizing that his life is not following the course he originally intended and weekends are when he really realizes it. Seeing his sister happy at college and happy with her boyfriend probably hit a nerve with him and he displaced on the easiest target - her boyfriend.

I know how hard it is to be worn out from the bad behavior, but try to keep it in perspective the best you can. He needs to readjust his life, find new friends, make a new life and, although he has been working hard on it, he's not there yet. I think Lor's suggestion of encouraging working out is a good one especially because I believe your son enjoys that. Maybe you should consider getting him a punching bag and, when he gets frustrated, let him beat the living hell out of it!

We're all here for you, Jules. I keep telling myself that I'm hoping someday to look back at this period of time from a much better vantage point and to be glad I lived through it and was able to help Zac have a wonderful life. It's all that keeps me going.

Goody-I'm sorry to hear about your brother. I hope that he is feeling better soon.

As for us, we are keeping our fingers crossed, but so far, so good. As bad as Zac was a few weeks ago is how good he is now and I'm praying that it stays. It has been such a pleasure just to enjoy his company, to see him laugh and sit with us at dinner, full of plans and looking forward to the future. I'm hoping that the meds are better now (he's off Abilify and on Seroquel regularly ) and he's definitely less jumpy and edgy. This coming week is the first full week of school so we'll see how that goes, but I see him honestly trying to find his stride again and to reconnect with his roots. He has a competition at Yale in two weeks and tomorrow night we are going to buy a new suit, new shirt and tie, new belt and new shoes. Today he and my husband are at Six Flags, getting the last of the season passes in. Yesterday he and I spent the day with my niece and her little ones. Friday night we were all at the mall (again!) buying more clothes!

He is lamenting that he doesn't really have a social life but, as I reminded him, most of his friends don't either. Junior year is about planning for the future and getting his work done and he'll have plenty of time to socialize. His concept is that he'd like to be out day and night on the weekends and it's not real. Once his activites get going, he'll be tied up with them and if he really wants to find his friends, he'll probably find them at the library or at Starbucks with their laptops (if they've even left their houses!!)

Hope all stays calm for the most part. Jules, please let us know how you and your son are doing.

Love,

Hope

Jules ~ You are in my thoughts and I am hoping that you had a better day today. Did your daughter say anything more about what happened??? And did she and your son talk it over a little bit??? If not, I am sure that they will when the time is right. They may need a little cool down time before that happens.

Lor...what wonderful news!!! Congratulations.....it's hard to believe that you are a grandma!!!;) I hope that this little guy brings you much joy and happiness.

Hope....thanks for checking in. I am glad to hear that Zac is doing well....yes this year is a big one for our kids. I am hoping that for the two of us we will have a much better and more stable year. I know, just like me, you are somewhat uncertain of how things will go but we will still be here together hoping that Erin and Zac move forward on this road called stability. Please continue to update us.

Erin is doing well.....she is busy balancing school with Al...Al isn't college oriented....his stepfather is a plumber and having him work with him to learn the business. I can tell that Erin is concerned about his not going to college and we are not making a big deal about it because she has been talking about going to college for many years and is even more inspired since Kait has started college. She has commented how she is "mean" to Al alot especially in the evenings.....we spoke about how she needs to work on coping skills so that she doesn't allow her workds/actions to hurt others. She agreed and that is progress.

Just got off the phone with Kait....she says that the internship is making her tired and that she isn't going out on the weekends like she use to. She said that she slept until 5pm today. I told her that she might want to consider taking her Lamictal in the late evening to see if that might make a difference. She said that she has been taking it around 1pm but hadn't taken it today.....I told her to take it now and then start taking it around 9-10pm each night and see how that works out. She goes from 50mgs to 100mgs starting this Thursday. Hopefully we will hear that it is starting to help her out. Just hearing that she isn't going out like she usually would seems like progress.

Well that's what's up in Goodyland. Hoping that we hear from Tsohlsville soon.

(((((HUGS)))))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:

Thanks for all your replys.. sometimes i need to step back and remember where we were this time last year..whew...dont want to go back there. This time of year with changing seasons is not good for him. and it has always been a problem. im just so scared that he will turn back to drugs..it scares the daylights out of me...the punching bag is a great idea..he was into that a few years back..i will bring it up again when he is a better mood. As far as my daughter is concerned i never want her to feel like she cant bring her bf's into our home and thats how he makes her feel..Honestly, she thinks her brother is crazy..horrible word..huh? she is back at school now and she didnt say goodbye to him and i cant blame her.

Goody thats too bad that Kait is so tired...will lamictal cause that? that is 1 medication my son was never on..

Thanks to everyone for their good wishes for our new grandson. I do want to make it clear that I am a very young grandmother and I don't think I look the part.

We are all very excited and are really enjoying him. My daughter and her husband have been married for seven years. Her husband had a very serious health problem and was on chemotherapy for almost a year so we were uncertain if they would have children. He is doing great now. After everything they have been through as a couple, it is just great to see them so happy now. This baby is a special blessing for our family.

Hope, I am glad Zac is doing so well. Drew is also very limited with his social life right now, but we are enjoying all the time we get to spend with him. Just seeing him smile and laugh makes me happy. He is a little edgyier (is that a word?) than he was this summer and is really struggling with his concentration in school so I know we are not quite there yet but he is really trying.

Goody, Drew seems to need more sleep since he started the lamictal. Of course he used to stay up all night before so we see it as an improvement. He takes his at 9pm.

Lor:)

Lor....I picture you as a "young" grandma!!!:) So don't you worry about that!!

I looked the Lamictal up and did see that "sleepiness" is listed as one of the side effects. Erin always took hers at bedtime so I am hoping that the adjustment in time will do better with Kait. I don't think that she sees it as something good as of yet;) ....she was complaining about how difficult it was for her to get to sleep at night and this seems to be just what she needs. I think that she will eventually feel better about it once she gets up to the 100mgs which she starts this Thursday. I think that she is just going to have to adjust her lifestyle a little bit and hopefully the Lamictal is just what she is going to need to help her do that and that she will settle down more this year in terms of the college scene goes!!

Jules....I am glad that you are able to look back and see how far your son has come compared to last year. I remember that I was so upset with the continued problems Erin was experiencing but when I looked back it was then that I was able to see how far she had come. So hang in there....your son has alot of adjustments that he has made and I am sure that is what you are seeing. And as far as your daughter....give it some time, she will work things out with her brother with a little bit of time.

Hope that your week is off to a better start!!

Love ~ Goody:angel: :wave:

Dear Jules,

I've been thinking about your son and wondering how he's doing.

When I thought about what happened, I could see exactly how it did, although it does not excuse his behavior. He was probably waiting for his sister to come home so they could hang out and she only had eyes for her boyfriend. It reminded him of the things he doesn't have right now and he took it out on her boyfriend. At least it makes sense, even if you wished he took a different way of expressing his frustration.

Goody is so right, though. We all have to look back at where our kids were and realize that, although they may not be where we hoped they'd be, they are so much further than where they were. Yelling at your daughter's boyfriend was bad, but still not as bad as turning to drugs. A punching bag would be better still and hopefully now that he has seen what uncontrolled frustration can do and how damaging it is, he'll look for better ways to express his frustration.

As I mentioned in Paige's thread, today is the year anniversary of Zac's last day at full-time school last year. Last year he was deterioring daily and we had no idea where we would end up or if we'd ever see the old Zac again. This year, thank God, he is thriving so far and, while we know the year will still have challenges, we are thankful for his smiling face and his enthusiasm for the future.

Look at how far your son has come, Jules, and how far Erin and Drew have come. Look at where Tsohl's son is now. It's baby steps for all of us, but at least we have each other.

I just wanted you to know that I've been thinking about you, Jules.

Much love,

Hope

Hope, you are right about him waiting home for her, he was. He is a lonely guy lately. so, he was looking for her to hang out with. but, he was wrong and its not right. He is 21 yrs old and has to take some responsibility for his actions. i read all about manic episodes and could never really pinpoint them with him. but im realizing that this is his mania showing..hes been out of sorts for a coupla weeks now..lots of anger, rage hes not sleeping. could it just be thats what it is? hes not hurting himself or suicidal..hes just extremely hyper and angry again. He blames the change of weather and im sure that has something to do with it..i think he needs a new med. added...

Jules....I was thinking back to when over the summer Kait was so busy with friends and mentioned to Erin that she might take her out to do something on a particular day and then something else came up that Kait had to do and Erin started yelling at Kait and cursing her out and slamming the doors and all. I think that our kids seem to have things set in their minds of what is going to occur and when it doesn't they react with anger not even understanding that things can change at any given moment. I KNOW that I have come to the point that I don't make any promises that I can't keep with Erin or even mention something that may happen because she doesn't deal with change or disappointment well and I think that is a big thing with our kids.

Even Paige mentioned how upset she was when her mom couldn't get her to the IMAX of HP....when things don't work out the way that our kids think they are it really triggers a meltdown.

So I think that is exactly what happened with your son.

I also think that the seasonal changes and it getting dark sooner is affecting Erin....not too badly but she is mentioning how she doesn't like it getting darker sooner....she has been sleeping more often and napping more over the weekend. She also mentioned that the Lamictal might be making her tired because she can't stay awake her first two periods in the morning.

Hope....Zac is on 200mgs of Lamictal and takes it at night...right??? I was wondering if we should call Erin's pdoc and see if we can give hers in one dose at bedtime. She takes 50mg in the morning and 150mg in the evening. Being that Kait is complaining about it making her tired when she takes it at lunchtime I think that is what is making Erin so tired. I looked Lamictal up and sleepiness is on it's list of side effects.

Anyway, Jules how is your son otherwise?? Does he like the course he is taking??? And how about his job??? I think he needs to join a gym to get this extra energy of his out, something that will allow him a way to release it. Just a thought.

((((HUGS)))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:

Goody, i dont think hes doing so good...he likes his job, he likes his 1 course he has a gym membership, but he doesnt go often..he does horrible with the season change, i think that is a huge trigger with him..its so funny because i absolutely love this time of year..i love having to put socks on.. hes bundled up with sweatshirts already..he really feels colder than the rest of us..and it is not cold outside, to me 70 degrees is wonderful. Than as usual he needs some time to get used to the change and he slowly adjusts. But he is high strung in the meantime and its tiring on me and my husband.:(

Jules ~ If you don't mind my making a suggestion try not to allow your son to bum you out....I say this because I noticed that Erin's misery really seemed to drag me down and I found that the more I didn't focus on it and went about life the better she did. It took me a while to realize this and even more time to put it into practice. The thing is that when they get this way there really isn't anything that you or I can do to change it....they have to learn how to do that on their own. I was finding that Erin was bored and miserable just having nothing to do and it really got me going nuts. Eventually I made a few suggestions on what she can do and then went and did something myself and eventually she learned to fill in that time with constructive things to do. IT took some time but it did eventually happen.

One of the therapists who came into our home suggested this to me....at the time I thought she was nuts but now it makes sense and I thought I would share that with you.

Hang in there , Jules....everything is going to be okay!! Like we all have noticed, our kids have come far....look back a year ago from this day and then you will see exactly how far your son has come. Tell him this....he may not see it but I found that when I point it out to Erin it really helps. I tell her often how proud I am of all that she has done to work on getting better and point out the progress that she has made. Perhaps by just doing that your son will grab onto the hope that he needs to know that things will not always stay this way and that they will get better.

Hope that helps.

((((HUGS)))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:

Hi Jules ~

Have you had his thyroid checked? Every time you mention him feeling cold I wonder if there is some physical reason for this. My son enjoys this time of year but it really kicks in for him in November. He has already commented though on the days getting shorter already. But he has looked all over various warmer climates and every place had its own issues. And he hates bugs!! I would like him to go somewhere other than the Northeast for grad school but I bet he'll end up there!!

Why didn't your son want to move to Florida?

goody you are right and i do agree with you. i am trying to ease up on him and his moods..its just hard because hes home alot and i see it..if i didnt have a little one i would get a 9-5 job just to get out of my house everyday..
She has been thru alot this past year and saw too many things so i want to spend the after school time with her and homework etc...I am looking for pt. time job and have some leads..so wish me luck.;)

Jules ~

I have a very large punching bag in my basement, left over from before our son was properly medicated. Wish I could get it to you!! I have no use for it.

Your son is also probably having to work hard to hold all this in while at work, the class, in public, so he kind of explodes when he gets home, and lets it all out. Probably doesn't realize he's doing it, doesn't excuse it, but try to take it in stride as much as you can.

All these changes are really tough for our kids. It is difficult for us to understand, but it is hard for them.

Goody-

Zac is on 300 mg of Lamictal and he takes 150 mg. in the morning and 150 mg. at night before bed. He found 200 mg in the morning too much so we originally split that dose morning and night, then we increased the morning to 150 and the night to 100 and now we're at 150 morning/150 at night. For now, this seems to be the right therapeutic dose for him. (unfortunately, it does nothing to help his sleep!!!)

Jules - I think your son might need a med adjustment. He's had alot of change to deal with in a short period of time and might need something to help him adjust. Just a thought!

Love,

Hope

Hi Jules, Your son's behavior sounds just like we see now with Drew if he gets off schedule with his sleep, doesn't get enough exercise or gets overstressed. It sure sounds like hypomania with some seasonal component to me. I wonder why the pdoc still is reluctant to call it BP? We still don't have that as an official dx from our current pdoc.

Does your son have any insight into when he is starting to get like this? Drew doesn't yet but I'm getting better at recognizing it and we do adjust his medication, try to lower the stress and make sure he gets enough rest which so far seems to keep him in control. We keep pointing it out to him and he seems to accept what we are saying so hopefully one day he will get it.

Good Luck with your job hunt. I am working very part time right now. I would like to add some hours but right now I seem to be spending all my time driving to medical appointments and fighting with our insurance company. They have finally paid the first $100 towards his psych bills for this year. They told me we have a $300 yearly limit for MI and we are now fighting over his medications which run over $500 per month. We are looking to make a switch in our insurance, but due to preexisting conditions it is hard to find one that will take us.

I wonder if a quick weekend in FL with his grandparents would help your son. The weather down here is really nice. A little cool at night but still hot during the day and there are some cheap flights to Tampa right now. Plus it would give you a break. Just a thought.

Lor:)

Jules ~ I just came across some information on the news information on my internet server's home page. It was talking about high-paying jobs that don't require a college degree and I was thinking about your son!!!! Take a look at this...."One career choice would be working for UPS. If you enjoy driving, sitting and light lifting, UPS drivers' salaries are typically are $27.34 an hour. According to Human Resources at UPS, 'drivers (and part-time employees) receive full health benefits including medical, dental and eye care"."

I just had to share this with you....I think just getting the medical benefits is well worth it and I couldn't believe that they even offer it to part-time employees!!! With the Christmas rush coming upon us I am sure that they have positions opening up so it might be worth something your son could look into. Oh and good luck with that part-time job....keep us updated on that.

Hope ~ Thanks for sharing the info about the Lamictal. I discussed it with Erin and she doesn't seem to want to discuss this with her pdoc but I am going to put in a call and speak with his Nurse Practitioner and see what she has to say. Erin's first two periods are History and Phys Ed alternating with her Honors Chem Lab. I am going to keep an eye on things....to go switching her schedule will probably cause Erin more stress because she seems to LOVE her teachers and her schedule. I think that talking to the pdoc about other alternatives with her meds may be the way to go but I sense that even Erin doesn't want to make any changes since she is doing so well in terms of stability. I somewhat agree. As Tsohl pointed out, any changes seem to really affect our kids and I really don't want to upset the applecart here since we are doing so well.

Tsohl ~ So your son got stung by a bee on the same day as he proposed!!!:D I think that if anything it was a "wake me up call" that marriage takes alot of work and that perhaps in this relationship using honey instead of vinegar is going to be a big thing???:confused: I wouldn't worry....if anything it will certainly be a story him and his fiance will pass on into future generations!!!:D Imagine that!!!!!;)

Hope that you are getting somewhere with your surgery....saw somewhere that you are already scheduled in November for a 3 level without your knowledge??? Seems that some of these doctors assume too much!!! I am thinking about you and hope that you can gain some headway with the insurance company.

(((((HUGS)))))) to all ~ Goody:angel::wave:

Goody, Drew takes 200mg of lamictal at night. Origionally we gave it to him in the morning but it really made a difference in his morning games. He just wasn't as sharp. He does take abilify in the am but only 2.5mg.

Goody ~

He got stung almost immediately after giving her the ring!

This height thing is interesting. They are a family of giants. My son has told me when he goes to a family gathering, he feels short, an experience he is NOT used to at 6'4" --- all the aunts and uncles are taller and his mother-in-law to be is 6'5" ---for whatever reason she wanted to be engaged but they don't plan on having a wedding any time soon. I guess she likes lots of time to plan!! :cool:

yes i agree he needs a med adjustment...ts, we do have a punching bag in the garage..and i will suggest it when i feel like talking to him.. right now im a little angry at him. Lor, a quick fla. weekend is a great idea and i will suggest that too. Goody, he did apply to UPS,LIRR,LIPA, and did take tests for police dept,sanitation,fire dept.and a few more..they all take some time maybe years:( Things will work out for him eventually, he is very short on patience right now.. You guys are all so great and i appreciate it.:) :angel: