CK1
09-10-2007, 06:29 PM
Well, I am back to chat some more, primarily to update. I think for now we have weathered the storm. My wife has, what my daughters and I call "Stabilized". Hope that does offend anybody. She is still running but not to the degree she was. She still goes through some brutal mood swings but we understand and patiently weather it out.
I am glad I spent the time and educated myself on Menopause. It made a world of difference. I do not claim to understand but I do know the effects. She has opted not to take any hormones and her exercising seems to keep the focus off this segment in her life. I think I rectified the angst she was having with our oldest daughter and I took on alot of the communication with her and the results in her school work have improved significantly. Boy Howdy has this been a challenge and half. A pubiscent daughter boy crazy and a wife going in and out of sanity. ... :)
So the recent uncomfortable item to hit the radar screen is a "Career Change". She came to some sort of conclusion her job is simply not satisfying any longer and is looking to move on and wants to go back to school. I have expressed my concerns with this change (ever so eliquently mind you) stating that before she veers off into this plan that we have all the bases covered. We have 2 teenage daughters that I feel need a lot of positive reinforcement so they carry on to college. If we sway now it will be tough to assist them. This is why I have not ventured off into other careers at this time. When the first one has left high School, 1 more year, then I can consider those options. Of course my wife is very absolute now with her behavior so this is a hard thing to overcome and rationalize.
When I sit and look at all of this as it has unfolded I now understand why people divorce after 20 - 30 years of marriage. Most of my colleague friends that have divorced have stated their wives were unreasonable and moody and wanted no intimacy and so on, so they left for greener pastures. If they had spent just a bit of time to understand what was happening they might have had a better chance of working this out and staying whole as a family. if they really wanted to be there with their wife. Some just simply want out. But like I said previous, it is much easier to quit than to persevere. I think this explains why I see the 50+ year old balding man in a bright red corvette with a young blond women next to them.....;)
Thanks for all who responded in the thread. For now I forge forward and manage a house full of women.....Goodness......:D
I am glad I spent the time and educated myself on Menopause. It made a world of difference. I do not claim to understand but I do know the effects. She has opted not to take any hormones and her exercising seems to keep the focus off this segment in her life. I think I rectified the angst she was having with our oldest daughter and I took on alot of the communication with her and the results in her school work have improved significantly. Boy Howdy has this been a challenge and half. A pubiscent daughter boy crazy and a wife going in and out of sanity. ... :)
So the recent uncomfortable item to hit the radar screen is a "Career Change". She came to some sort of conclusion her job is simply not satisfying any longer and is looking to move on and wants to go back to school. I have expressed my concerns with this change (ever so eliquently mind you) stating that before she veers off into this plan that we have all the bases covered. We have 2 teenage daughters that I feel need a lot of positive reinforcement so they carry on to college. If we sway now it will be tough to assist them. This is why I have not ventured off into other careers at this time. When the first one has left high School, 1 more year, then I can consider those options. Of course my wife is very absolute now with her behavior so this is a hard thing to overcome and rationalize.
When I sit and look at all of this as it has unfolded I now understand why people divorce after 20 - 30 years of marriage. Most of my colleague friends that have divorced have stated their wives were unreasonable and moody and wanted no intimacy and so on, so they left for greener pastures. If they had spent just a bit of time to understand what was happening they might have had a better chance of working this out and staying whole as a family. if they really wanted to be there with their wife. Some just simply want out. But like I said previous, it is much easier to quit than to persevere. I think this explains why I see the 50+ year old balding man in a bright red corvette with a young blond women next to them.....;)
Thanks for all who responded in the thread. For now I forge forward and manage a house full of women.....Goodness......:D
Sponsor
rheanna
09-11-2007, 03:27 AM
CK1,
I can understand that this is confusing and painful for you. Bless you for trying to find out as much as you can about menopause. It must indeed be a mystery to someone whose hormones change gradually over years, and not hourly and drastically.
May I suggest that I see two things here that are causing problems. One is that your wife wants change in her life. The other is that your wife is making many of those changes in a way that excludes you and your daughters. I would like to suggest that you treat these issues separately.
We women often grow up with the message that we are fulfilled only when we do things for other people. We are given praise for doing things for other people. We are told that we are "selfish" (horrors!!!) for thinking of ourselves at all. Of course it is important to do things for other people. Children need nurturing and training, and being nice to one's spouse and other people around us makes for a positive functioning society.
I know many women who find when their children leave the house that they have no hobbies or interests. They don't even have a clue about what they want to do with all this free time. (This goes for a lot of men, too, who reach retirement age, but that's another story!) These women haven't developed interests or hobbies or training in other areas because it somehow is considered "selfish" (bad bad selfish!) to do something by yourself or with just your girlfriends. And horrors if she wants to go away for a week to take art lessons!
My point is that your wife, while I'm sure not this extreme, may have not taken the chance to find out what she is interested in (painting, writing, acting, a new career requiring going back to school). This requires alone time, or at least time with just people who are pursuing the same adventure or training. This means that the family can be left in the hands of someone else for a while (an hour during class time or a weekend during a retreat).
You have made sacrifices in your own life because you feel that spending time with the family is important. And I suspect that you are hurt because you wife seems to be saying that you and the children are not important to her -- or not important enough. She isn't waiting for the agreed upon amount of time before she branches out and finds interests outside the family.
Which brings me to the second point -- the manner in which she is deciding to change the time plan. If she has been trying to live up to the "ideal" wife and mother for the last 20 years, which means devoting her time and energy to making other people's lives fulfilled, then she may not have actually been spending much time at all on the things that might make her fulfilled. The hormonal upheaval that takes place for many women makes us emotionally sensitive. It becomes harder to deal with emotions that may have been submerged for 20 years, because those emotions are considered selfish (horrors -- that a woman would want to do something that has nothing to do with the family!). If she has indeed been submerging any thought of what she wants to do with her life, then now, when the hormones are going crazy, she can't ignore what's underneath any more.
And what's underneath seems to be a great desire to do something, anything, that is for her and her alone. If she hasn't been exploring this for the last 20 years, she is going out in different directions trying to explore it now.
You can't do anything to stop this. If you do, you'll wind up divorced for sure. My suggestion is to let her know that you support her in her attempts to find out who "she" is (not wife and mother, but "she-as-individual"), but also that you want her to be still a part of the family. This may take couples counseling, because it's hard to exchange emotional thoughts with each other without both of you getting defensive, and a neutral counselor can provide an environment where you can both present your thoughts and feelings without things escalating into an unfortunate fight.
I'm sure it must be difficult to be around someone who appears to be pushing people away rather than being the nurturing person you have known for 20 years. But all this drama that she is creating around herself (and affecting the rest of the family of course) is because she doesn't know any other way to do it. She will find other avenues besides the family to fulfill herself. The question is, can she find these other activities without leaving the family?
Please don't present this to her as an either/or option (she may actually be seeing it this way in her own mind). Please don't say that she has to submerge herself for another year or two until the children are old enough. What the two of you need to address (and I know she's not making this easy!) is how to start doing it now without throwing away the family in the process. It's not going to be easy. I wish you luck. I admire you for trying to look for as much information as you can.
And thank you for posting things from the "other half" point of view. Sometimes when we're in the middle of our own crises we forget how difficult this is on other people. Just remember that it's also difficult for us as well.
--Rheanna
I can understand that this is confusing and painful for you. Bless you for trying to find out as much as you can about menopause. It must indeed be a mystery to someone whose hormones change gradually over years, and not hourly and drastically.
May I suggest that I see two things here that are causing problems. One is that your wife wants change in her life. The other is that your wife is making many of those changes in a way that excludes you and your daughters. I would like to suggest that you treat these issues separately.
We women often grow up with the message that we are fulfilled only when we do things for other people. We are given praise for doing things for other people. We are told that we are "selfish" (horrors!!!) for thinking of ourselves at all. Of course it is important to do things for other people. Children need nurturing and training, and being nice to one's spouse and other people around us makes for a positive functioning society.
I know many women who find when their children leave the house that they have no hobbies or interests. They don't even have a clue about what they want to do with all this free time. (This goes for a lot of men, too, who reach retirement age, but that's another story!) These women haven't developed interests or hobbies or training in other areas because it somehow is considered "selfish" (bad bad selfish!) to do something by yourself or with just your girlfriends. And horrors if she wants to go away for a week to take art lessons!
My point is that your wife, while I'm sure not this extreme, may have not taken the chance to find out what she is interested in (painting, writing, acting, a new career requiring going back to school). This requires alone time, or at least time with just people who are pursuing the same adventure or training. This means that the family can be left in the hands of someone else for a while (an hour during class time or a weekend during a retreat).
You have made sacrifices in your own life because you feel that spending time with the family is important. And I suspect that you are hurt because you wife seems to be saying that you and the children are not important to her -- or not important enough. She isn't waiting for the agreed upon amount of time before she branches out and finds interests outside the family.
Which brings me to the second point -- the manner in which she is deciding to change the time plan. If she has been trying to live up to the "ideal" wife and mother for the last 20 years, which means devoting her time and energy to making other people's lives fulfilled, then she may not have actually been spending much time at all on the things that might make her fulfilled. The hormonal upheaval that takes place for many women makes us emotionally sensitive. It becomes harder to deal with emotions that may have been submerged for 20 years, because those emotions are considered selfish (horrors -- that a woman would want to do something that has nothing to do with the family!). If she has indeed been submerging any thought of what she wants to do with her life, then now, when the hormones are going crazy, she can't ignore what's underneath any more.
And what's underneath seems to be a great desire to do something, anything, that is for her and her alone. If she hasn't been exploring this for the last 20 years, she is going out in different directions trying to explore it now.
You can't do anything to stop this. If you do, you'll wind up divorced for sure. My suggestion is to let her know that you support her in her attempts to find out who "she" is (not wife and mother, but "she-as-individual"), but also that you want her to be still a part of the family. This may take couples counseling, because it's hard to exchange emotional thoughts with each other without both of you getting defensive, and a neutral counselor can provide an environment where you can both present your thoughts and feelings without things escalating into an unfortunate fight.
I'm sure it must be difficult to be around someone who appears to be pushing people away rather than being the nurturing person you have known for 20 years. But all this drama that she is creating around herself (and affecting the rest of the family of course) is because she doesn't know any other way to do it. She will find other avenues besides the family to fulfill herself. The question is, can she find these other activities without leaving the family?
Please don't present this to her as an either/or option (she may actually be seeing it this way in her own mind). Please don't say that she has to submerge herself for another year or two until the children are old enough. What the two of you need to address (and I know she's not making this easy!) is how to start doing it now without throwing away the family in the process. It's not going to be easy. I wish you luck. I admire you for trying to look for as much information as you can.
And thank you for posting things from the "other half" point of view. Sometimes when we're in the middle of our own crises we forget how difficult this is on other people. Just remember that it's also difficult for us as well.
--Rheanna
AnnD
09-13-2007, 06:00 PM
Just off the top of my head it sounds like a drug problem and I would have to really keep an eye on what the heck she is doing...I would be confronting why she is pushing everyone away and why she has to do it all by herself. If she isn't on drugs then she is having a psychotic break so figure out what on earth is going on...don't just sit back and allow her to do this and not be in there with multiple questions and demands of what is going on. good luck
CK1
09-24-2007, 10:38 PM
Again many thanks for all return comments.
I think as we all age we have new challenges. I feel this is one of them. I think the beauty of my relationship with my wife is we are able to communicate with each other very well. But understanding the situation going back 20 years is the key. My wife has always been a working mom as I was a working dad. We balanced our work hours to be near our daughters and our nana watched the girls for 5 hours a day typically. My wife finished college and applied her education in her field of choice, so I think she has lead her life pretty well fullfilled. We have never been saddled with financial woes(Thank Goodness) We always had joint accounts so this was a never a "Who is the bread winner" scenario. When her business sector was up, Mine was down, and Vise Versa. It simply did not matter and still does not.
So for now I am going to let this seek a level. Again my understanding of the mood swings affords me the luxury to assess it. I want her to go out and do what she wants. I fully understand we as adults need something that we can call our own. An outside interest. I have to say the beauty in this latest stage is I have gotten to get back to some weekend fishing trips and she fully supports it. In fact she encouraged our having some extra activities so we can keep our minds spry. So she runs 1/2 marathons and I go fly fishing on rivers I have always wanted to fish but never seemed to have time. This has really enhanced our relationship in the fact she gets a nice weekend with the girls and then she goes and I have a weekend with the girls and now they are getting used to this. Then we come home and are a close family and do alot of stuff together during the week. I am very thankful we are not like others that fight. We, to this date, never argue or fight.
Anne I am not sure where you were going with your post about drugs and not letting her get away this. I do not look at this situation as this. It is a life change, yes it is painful, yes it can really take some hard shots at your ego but in the end with patience this can be navigated, like the stress of having a new child, or a career change or a passing of a family member. Patience and listening is everything and understanding the other person.
CK
I think as we all age we have new challenges. I feel this is one of them. I think the beauty of my relationship with my wife is we are able to communicate with each other very well. But understanding the situation going back 20 years is the key. My wife has always been a working mom as I was a working dad. We balanced our work hours to be near our daughters and our nana watched the girls for 5 hours a day typically. My wife finished college and applied her education in her field of choice, so I think she has lead her life pretty well fullfilled. We have never been saddled with financial woes(Thank Goodness) We always had joint accounts so this was a never a "Who is the bread winner" scenario. When her business sector was up, Mine was down, and Vise Versa. It simply did not matter and still does not.
So for now I am going to let this seek a level. Again my understanding of the mood swings affords me the luxury to assess it. I want her to go out and do what she wants. I fully understand we as adults need something that we can call our own. An outside interest. I have to say the beauty in this latest stage is I have gotten to get back to some weekend fishing trips and she fully supports it. In fact she encouraged our having some extra activities so we can keep our minds spry. So she runs 1/2 marathons and I go fly fishing on rivers I have always wanted to fish but never seemed to have time. This has really enhanced our relationship in the fact she gets a nice weekend with the girls and then she goes and I have a weekend with the girls and now they are getting used to this. Then we come home and are a close family and do alot of stuff together during the week. I am very thankful we are not like others that fight. We, to this date, never argue or fight.
Anne I am not sure where you were going with your post about drugs and not letting her get away this. I do not look at this situation as this. It is a life change, yes it is painful, yes it can really take some hard shots at your ego but in the end with patience this can be navigated, like the stress of having a new child, or a career change or a passing of a family member. Patience and listening is everything and understanding the other person.
CK
rheanna
09-25-2007, 03:31 AM
CK1,
You have an enviable relationship. :) Sometimes things can get a bit unbalanced, especially when one partner starts making a major change in their life. But the key here is that you are able to keep the communications open and that you both fundamentally respect each other. I am glad that things are working out. I am smiling as I write this.
--Rheanna
You have an enviable relationship. :) Sometimes things can get a bit unbalanced, especially when one partner starts making a major change in their life. But the key here is that you are able to keep the communications open and that you both fundamentally respect each other. I am glad that things are working out. I am smiling as I write this.
--Rheanna
marymk
09-25-2007, 02:56 PM
CK1,
Your relationship with your wife sounds alot like mine and my husbands. I've gone through my own issues during this time of my life, and another man may not have taken the time / or cared eneough to understand and stick by me.
I too have felt the need to something different with my life over the past few years, and yes it creates 'mood' issues that seem unreasonable to the rest of the family. I've had horrible anxiety, along with other symptoms for 2 years now, and have thought serious about a career change, even thought I have a great job right now - there are times that I just want something different. I'm 49, and now I'm thinking I may change careers to begin a 'retirement' job when I'm 55 or so - maybe something less stressful and demanding.
Also, I laughed about your comment on the 50 year old man in the red Corvette. I just bought myself a Mustang Cobra convertible this summer, and it has done wonders for my mental attitude and relaxation. I still prefer to have my husband or 11 year old daghter sitting next to me.
Mary
Your relationship with your wife sounds alot like mine and my husbands. I've gone through my own issues during this time of my life, and another man may not have taken the time / or cared eneough to understand and stick by me.
I too have felt the need to something different with my life over the past few years, and yes it creates 'mood' issues that seem unreasonable to the rest of the family. I've had horrible anxiety, along with other symptoms for 2 years now, and have thought serious about a career change, even thought I have a great job right now - there are times that I just want something different. I'm 49, and now I'm thinking I may change careers to begin a 'retirement' job when I'm 55 or so - maybe something less stressful and demanding.
Also, I laughed about your comment on the 50 year old man in the red Corvette. I just bought myself a Mustang Cobra convertible this summer, and it has done wonders for my mental attitude and relaxation. I still prefer to have my husband or 11 year old daghter sitting next to me.
Mary
CK1
09-26-2007, 02:34 AM
Rheanna,
I am glad you are smiling. I know that things will never go back to what they were. In fact I am glad they will not. Change is good. Now I will completely admit that this has been trying at times. I have taken some good shots to my ego which made me insecure. I found that I was questioning myself and it rattled my self confidence. The initial pre-menopause change and lack of communication set all of this rolling. I remember one day in the morning she went what I term "ballistic" for no apparent reason and she said some pretty hurtful things. I stepped back and asked myself "How did I get here?" all I said was "Good Morning"... This is what really drove me to joining this forum and to read about menopause. You all have been very helpful. I am glad you allowed me to join the forum and post as the male side of the equation.
Marymk Thanks for the feedback. I am glad to hear from others with similar situations. I hope my Red Corvette comment did not offend you. I just never understood why people up and went and did what they did but now I fully understand. I guess in the end we all find ways to adjust and cope with the changes.
CK
I am glad you are smiling. I know that things will never go back to what they were. In fact I am glad they will not. Change is good. Now I will completely admit that this has been trying at times. I have taken some good shots to my ego which made me insecure. I found that I was questioning myself and it rattled my self confidence. The initial pre-menopause change and lack of communication set all of this rolling. I remember one day in the morning she went what I term "ballistic" for no apparent reason and she said some pretty hurtful things. I stepped back and asked myself "How did I get here?" all I said was "Good Morning"... This is what really drove me to joining this forum and to read about menopause. You all have been very helpful. I am glad you allowed me to join the forum and post as the male side of the equation.
Marymk Thanks for the feedback. I am glad to hear from others with similar situations. I hope my Red Corvette comment did not offend you. I just never understood why people up and went and did what they did but now I fully understand. I guess in the end we all find ways to adjust and cope with the changes.
CK
rheanna
09-26-2007, 04:03 AM
CK1,
It really helps us all to see things from another perspective. I'm glad that you feel comfortable discussing things with us, and I'm glad to hear things from a man who has to live with the likes of us. :)
For what it's worth, my husband has lived through my various life stages (and vice-versa) and it hasn't been a smooth ride for either of us (24 years married plus 5 years together before that = 29 years together so far). But we decided, everytime a misunderstanding arose, to ride it out, find some way to communicate, and some way to find a compromise that we could both live with. We both realize that we are better off together than apart, and we actually like each other as fellow human beings. No, it's not easy, but I'm eternally grateful that he and I are together -- we have both grown and become better human beings as a result of learning to live together. (I threw away the first hubby, because he wasn't willing to communicate or compromise or grow.)
I'm sure that your attempts to work things out with your wife is serving as a good example for your daughters. We are fed the Disney fairy tale stories of "living happily ever after", and are shocked to find out that the love of our life turns out to have a couple of froggy traits and is not completely entirely through and through Prince Charming (or Princess Charming). Your daughters will be prepared for the complexities and rewards of learning to live with a partner.
Thanks for contributing to this Board. (And thanks of course also to the ladies on this Board!!!)
--Rheanna
It really helps us all to see things from another perspective. I'm glad that you feel comfortable discussing things with us, and I'm glad to hear things from a man who has to live with the likes of us. :)
For what it's worth, my husband has lived through my various life stages (and vice-versa) and it hasn't been a smooth ride for either of us (24 years married plus 5 years together before that = 29 years together so far). But we decided, everytime a misunderstanding arose, to ride it out, find some way to communicate, and some way to find a compromise that we could both live with. We both realize that we are better off together than apart, and we actually like each other as fellow human beings. No, it's not easy, but I'm eternally grateful that he and I are together -- we have both grown and become better human beings as a result of learning to live together. (I threw away the first hubby, because he wasn't willing to communicate or compromise or grow.)
I'm sure that your attempts to work things out with your wife is serving as a good example for your daughters. We are fed the Disney fairy tale stories of "living happily ever after", and are shocked to find out that the love of our life turns out to have a couple of froggy traits and is not completely entirely through and through Prince Charming (or Princess Charming). Your daughters will be prepared for the complexities and rewards of learning to live with a partner.
Thanks for contributing to this Board. (And thanks of course also to the ladies on this Board!!!)
--Rheanna