Rani*
09-30-2007, 05:55 AM
Im 50 yr old female, I was dx with a fatty liver several years ago, which they attributed to alcohol. When I told them I rarely drank except for a short period during my teenage years they said that wasnt substantial enough to cause my fatty liver. Since then I have had intermittent pain on my right side just under my ribs in the front as well as back. Usually it will subside within 2-4 days. About 6 months ago I started drinking socially and that's when a new string of problems begain, first I noticed after a night out, we got home and climbed into bed my heart started pounding hard but slow, I started feeling weak shakey nauseous, losing weight. Evenaully I started feeling so bad I quit going out at all and the only thing that tasted good was water. For the last couple of months my stools changed they vary from very light greyish white to just a light brown. I have intermittant weakness, nausea, loss of appetite, (no fevers) for the last week Ive had constant pain/burning on the right side of my mid back (liver/kidneys?) about the size of a football, and pain on the left side but smaller doesnt hurt as much. Because it was on both sides I assumed it was my kidneys and went to the doctor/walkin complaining of such. They didnt find any evidence of kidney infection or stones. She said my white blood count was higher then red blood count discounting the possibility of kidney stones. She felt it might be muscle pain and suggested a heating pad over the weekend, if it didnt improve by monday contact my regular doctor. The heating pad caused the burning to amplify both spots in my back and continued to burn for about 15mins even after I turned it off. Plus the heating pad caused my nausea to increase significately, it tiggered the weakness again and I felt totally drained. I have also been having pain in my upper left chest, arm, neck front left side, with what feels like a lump in my lower left neck/throat area, as well as pain in my left ear. Doctors cant find the problem yet. I was hospitalized twice in the last couple of months,
one time I colapsed from extreme weakness at Walmart (non alcohol related) The second time after weeks of fighting this illness feeling alone, I decided to turn on the music (which always lifts my spirit),and have a couple drinks (I dont like to get drunk just to feel good which is 2-3 drinks for me then I stop). The last thing I remember was pouring my second drink around 6pm but I dont remember drinking it, the next thing I remember is being on the floor and I can barely move I kept drifting in and out of conciousness it was around 12am. In and out of conciousness I tried numerous time to call for help after about 45mins I finally managed to dial 911. I hesitated adding all my symtoms in this post but I have to wonder if it's not all related somehow.
Im now waking up at night with this pain in fact it's 2am and I cant sleep due to the pain. I will be going back to the doc on Monday. Any info, idea's insight would be welcome at this point. Thanks Rani
one time I colapsed from extreme weakness at Walmart (non alcohol related) The second time after weeks of fighting this illness feeling alone, I decided to turn on the music (which always lifts my spirit),and have a couple drinks (I dont like to get drunk just to feel good which is 2-3 drinks for me then I stop). The last thing I remember was pouring my second drink around 6pm but I dont remember drinking it, the next thing I remember is being on the floor and I can barely move I kept drifting in and out of conciousness it was around 12am. In and out of conciousness I tried numerous time to call for help after about 45mins I finally managed to dial 911. I hesitated adding all my symtoms in this post but I have to wonder if it's not all related somehow.
Im now waking up at night with this pain in fact it's 2am and I cant sleep due to the pain. I will be going back to the doc on Monday. Any info, idea's insight would be welcome at this point. Thanks Rani
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theprice
10-03-2007, 04:10 AM
Hi. I'm just getting enough courage to post here - did a few other replies, too - but I'd like to make a few comments, hoping to help. I have ESLD (End stage liver disease) and feel some of my personal research and observations would be appropriate to you. First and foremost, never take another drink of alcohol. Drink water, juices and occasional soda only. You do not need to damage your liver any more. The underlying cause of your liver damage may be more than, or other than, fatty liver disease. See a hepatologist for more tests. I suspect your abdomen may be swollen from ascitis though you didn't say so. Do not rely on emergency room doctors, and even a Nephrologist or whatever a kidney doctor is called may not know enough to help you or even to refer you to a hepatologist. There isn't even a hepotologist in my state, so I have to travel for tests and/or treatment every 1 to 3 months. Restrict your complex proteins - eat no more than 4oz of beef at a meal, no meat more than twice a day - more turns to amonia in your blood contributing to ill health. BUT maintain your weight by eating lots of simple proteins in fruits and vegatables, and pastas and rice.
For some comparative experience, the following might help. My system doesn't digest milk products well any more even though I used to drink a gallon of milk every 3 days. Hence the light brown stools. Get a doctor to prescribe Lactulose and force it down to flush bile out at which time you'll see green in your stool or liquid void - this is a good thing and you will feel better, though fatigue will continue. I try to add Ensure or Boost (actually Walmart's Equal brand has a better taste to me and is a lot cheaper) but that makes my bowel movements pure liquid without the Lactulose. Because it is a fact that the liver and spleen (your left side pain area) do not have nerve endings, doctors seem to tell all of us with liver disease that pain is not part of it - but I take Vicadin regularly for pain which I limit to 2 a day because of the tylenol in it, and I have to switch sides to lay on because of pain in the liver and spleen areas myself - plus I take the Vicadin for bone pain from Osteoporosis which has advanced faster in me than in my siblings or parents due to my liver disorder. I just got my first quarterly Boniva shot for that. Spleen problems, by the way, just go with liver disorders and I'm told will clear up with the transplant I can't afford. Severe fatigue and weakness is a problemof mine, too. I sleep for most of 2 or 3 days after 1 day of housekeeping and/or shopping. Well, that's a start, but I've gotten fatigued just from trying to organize my thoughts into this, so, sorry, I gotta lay down. I may add more later if it sounds related or if I think it would be helpful. Good luck in finding a good hepatologist - I like Dr. John Lake at the Fairview-University Transplant Center in Minneapolis, MN. God Bless.
For some comparative experience, the following might help. My system doesn't digest milk products well any more even though I used to drink a gallon of milk every 3 days. Hence the light brown stools. Get a doctor to prescribe Lactulose and force it down to flush bile out at which time you'll see green in your stool or liquid void - this is a good thing and you will feel better, though fatigue will continue. I try to add Ensure or Boost (actually Walmart's Equal brand has a better taste to me and is a lot cheaper) but that makes my bowel movements pure liquid without the Lactulose. Because it is a fact that the liver and spleen (your left side pain area) do not have nerve endings, doctors seem to tell all of us with liver disease that pain is not part of it - but I take Vicadin regularly for pain which I limit to 2 a day because of the tylenol in it, and I have to switch sides to lay on because of pain in the liver and spleen areas myself - plus I take the Vicadin for bone pain from Osteoporosis which has advanced faster in me than in my siblings or parents due to my liver disorder. I just got my first quarterly Boniva shot for that. Spleen problems, by the way, just go with liver disorders and I'm told will clear up with the transplant I can't afford. Severe fatigue and weakness is a problemof mine, too. I sleep for most of 2 or 3 days after 1 day of housekeeping and/or shopping. Well, that's a start, but I've gotten fatigued just from trying to organize my thoughts into this, so, sorry, I gotta lay down. I may add more later if it sounds related or if I think it would be helpful. Good luck in finding a good hepatologist - I like Dr. John Lake at the Fairview-University Transplant Center in Minneapolis, MN. God Bless.
Rani*
10-08-2007, 03:06 AM
Thanks very much for sharing your info. I agree alcohol is off my list right now. I hope your doctors can find something to help you increase and enjoy your quality of life. Thanks again
theprice
10-11-2007, 08:30 AM
Just did a search on your symptoms and found these comments in other chat.
About old stool coloring:
I have read liver problem can cause light colored stools, either white, or gray, or very light yellow.
Adrenal disfunction can cause a multitude of symptoms. Make sure that doctor takes his time with you. Hey, also found out from my aunt today that my other aunt had thyroid and adrenal problems and so is my uncle and my cousin - sounds like there is some "genetics" going on here.
Bile, made by the liver and stored in the gallbladder, gives stool it's color. If the stool is white, it is an indication that bile isn't moving from the gallbladder into the intestines. Bile moves in response to a meal with fat. When fat exits the stomach and enters the duodenum at the beginning of the small intestines, the duodenum sends a message to the pancreas to tell the liver to move bile into the small intestine to break down the fats. If bile is absent, the problem can be with the pancreas, liver, [or possibly a blocked bile duct] the gallbladder or the biliary tree [oh...yea]. This can be dangerous if left untreated. Take her to the doctor to get checked out ASAP. If she begins to have personality or memory changes, take her to the ER.
I added this, mainly because I've never had this "coloring" problem. I do think your fatty liver disorder is at the root of your problem still, and must be treated therefore, but may have now caused other disorders - as in me with advancing osteoprosis faster, spleenomegally (spelling off) and hypertensive something that makes them stick a tube down my throat periodically to put rubberbands around protrusions (called varicies) in my esophogus (sorry getting too lazy to look up correct spellings). And other things - the most life threatening being ascitis - my swollen belly of 2 years. Makes me look like I've got a beer gut - but I never got the pleasure of making a real one, 'cause I never drank - ever.
I am hoping your left arm, chest pain was not a heart incident - get an EKG, but it may be tied to an internal bleeding problem which led to a heart incident - see next paragraph. And I hope the lump was just a swollen gland - a high white blood cell count would indicate an infection that can do that - but you said nothing about it's being treated either. If you weren't and because the heating pad would be a literally stupid suggestion with an infection, I would consider a different doctor - and not just for a second opinion - I mean change doctors for whatever she was doing - then go beyond your regular doctor to a hepatolgist and make him your main caregiver, even if your regular doctor has to approve everything he/she does for insurance purposes.
The reason is, I think it is not impossible for your liver problems to have caused that last fainting spell you mentioned although it seems contradictory to say this. If your liver is not functioning at all, the liquor is not cleansed from your blood by it so it can get to and cross the blood/brain barrier and overdose you on ethinol (sp). But if you have no function left, your platelet count goes down since blood cannot flow its regular routes (the spleen gets involved here somehow, too). Mine is less than 20,000 out of the 150,000 it's supposed to be. This lack of flow is what also forces fluid into the abdomen, hence the non-beer, beer gut. But again, you don't mention that symptom nor a bleeding problem, so I think you do still have some liver function left. God Willing. As I said - it's time for a bunch more tests - which should inlcude COMPLETE liver profile blood tests and an Ultrasound, and which may include MRI's, CT's and endoscopies.
(Maybe I should also add a disclaimer that I have no idea what I'm talking about, but only that I have found the liver is a much bigger influence on our health than many doctors indicate or learn and that not all know when to properly refer a patient to a liver specialist, a hepatologist.)
PS. FYI, the only "alternative medicine" that a hepatologist accepts seems to be Milk Thistle in the 175mg 3 times a day version which can be found at most pharmacies and Walmart, etc. Switzerlands equivalent of the FDA, however, has tested and approved Liv-52 which is too expensive for me. It can be bought only on the Internet.
I hope I was a little more helpful (and less whiny) this time. Again, Good luck and God Bless.
About old stool coloring:
I have read liver problem can cause light colored stools, either white, or gray, or very light yellow.
Adrenal disfunction can cause a multitude of symptoms. Make sure that doctor takes his time with you. Hey, also found out from my aunt today that my other aunt had thyroid and adrenal problems and so is my uncle and my cousin - sounds like there is some "genetics" going on here.
Bile, made by the liver and stored in the gallbladder, gives stool it's color. If the stool is white, it is an indication that bile isn't moving from the gallbladder into the intestines. Bile moves in response to a meal with fat. When fat exits the stomach and enters the duodenum at the beginning of the small intestines, the duodenum sends a message to the pancreas to tell the liver to move bile into the small intestine to break down the fats. If bile is absent, the problem can be with the pancreas, liver, [or possibly a blocked bile duct] the gallbladder or the biliary tree [oh...yea]. This can be dangerous if left untreated. Take her to the doctor to get checked out ASAP. If she begins to have personality or memory changes, take her to the ER.
I added this, mainly because I've never had this "coloring" problem. I do think your fatty liver disorder is at the root of your problem still, and must be treated therefore, but may have now caused other disorders - as in me with advancing osteoprosis faster, spleenomegally (spelling off) and hypertensive something that makes them stick a tube down my throat periodically to put rubberbands around protrusions (called varicies) in my esophogus (sorry getting too lazy to look up correct spellings). And other things - the most life threatening being ascitis - my swollen belly of 2 years. Makes me look like I've got a beer gut - but I never got the pleasure of making a real one, 'cause I never drank - ever.
I am hoping your left arm, chest pain was not a heart incident - get an EKG, but it may be tied to an internal bleeding problem which led to a heart incident - see next paragraph. And I hope the lump was just a swollen gland - a high white blood cell count would indicate an infection that can do that - but you said nothing about it's being treated either. If you weren't and because the heating pad would be a literally stupid suggestion with an infection, I would consider a different doctor - and not just for a second opinion - I mean change doctors for whatever she was doing - then go beyond your regular doctor to a hepatolgist and make him your main caregiver, even if your regular doctor has to approve everything he/she does for insurance purposes.
The reason is, I think it is not impossible for your liver problems to have caused that last fainting spell you mentioned although it seems contradictory to say this. If your liver is not functioning at all, the liquor is not cleansed from your blood by it so it can get to and cross the blood/brain barrier and overdose you on ethinol (sp). But if you have no function left, your platelet count goes down since blood cannot flow its regular routes (the spleen gets involved here somehow, too). Mine is less than 20,000 out of the 150,000 it's supposed to be. This lack of flow is what also forces fluid into the abdomen, hence the non-beer, beer gut. But again, you don't mention that symptom nor a bleeding problem, so I think you do still have some liver function left. God Willing. As I said - it's time for a bunch more tests - which should inlcude COMPLETE liver profile blood tests and an Ultrasound, and which may include MRI's, CT's and endoscopies.
(Maybe I should also add a disclaimer that I have no idea what I'm talking about, but only that I have found the liver is a much bigger influence on our health than many doctors indicate or learn and that not all know when to properly refer a patient to a liver specialist, a hepatologist.)
PS. FYI, the only "alternative medicine" that a hepatologist accepts seems to be Milk Thistle in the 175mg 3 times a day version which can be found at most pharmacies and Walmart, etc. Switzerlands equivalent of the FDA, however, has tested and approved Liv-52 which is too expensive for me. It can be bought only on the Internet.
I hope I was a little more helpful (and less whiny) this time. Again, Good luck and God Bless.