butrfligirl28
10-07-2007, 09:40 PM
Hello All,
I have seen so many post over the years stating that they take Ultram because it is non-narcotic. There has been some debate about this, but the drug company has finally declared Ultram to be an opiate. I just read an ad for Ultram ER, and it stated that it is in fact a narcotic pain med. People have been saying for years that stopping it will cause withdrawal, that people abuse it, ect. In my early CP years, I had many doctors prescribe it, "instead of addicting narcotics." It never worked for me, so that was a waste of time.
Just wanted to share that the debate appears to be over. I wonder if it will be harder to get now? Food for thought!:cool:
I have seen so many post over the years stating that they take Ultram because it is non-narcotic. There has been some debate about this, but the drug company has finally declared Ultram to be an opiate. I just read an ad for Ultram ER, and it stated that it is in fact a narcotic pain med. People have been saying for years that stopping it will cause withdrawal, that people abuse it, ect. In my early CP years, I had many doctors prescribe it, "instead of addicting narcotics." It never worked for me, so that was a waste of time.
Just wanted to share that the debate appears to be over. I wonder if it will be harder to get now? Food for thought!:cool:
Sponsor
friendly_one
10-07-2007, 09:47 PM
Hey butrfly...you beat me to the post! ;) Yes, indeed, Ultram is classified as an opiate/opioid. Still, alot of docs say it isn't. I'm on Oxycontin and Actiq at the present time (but I've been on every other class 2 narcotic on the market over the many years in the past). I went with my husband to the spinal doc when he hurt his back. It was nothing serious, but he threw out his back for the umpteenth time and decided to have it checked out.
Well, the doc prescribed him Ultram and said "this is for pain, but it's not a narcotic or opiate/opioid". I about fell out of the chair. I've known for a while how it's classified. I have a PDR handbook at home that my PCP gave to me since I take so many different meds on top of my pain meds. When he went to have it filled, the pharmacist said it is an opiate/opioid, but not like what I'm on. She also said if you take it for more than 5 days in a row constantly, you will have w/d when stopping it. You don't get w/d from a pain med if it's not an opiate/opioid..duh. LOL I've never heard of anyone getting w/d from Advil or Tylenol.:rolleyes: I know there are other meds you can w/d from.....certain b/p meds, benzo's, etc. I'm just talking about pain meds here.
Anyway, just my experience. Or should I say my husband's exerience. :)
Edit: opiates are alkaloids from opium..i.e., morphine & codeine. Everything else is an opioid because it's synthetic.
Well, the doc prescribed him Ultram and said "this is for pain, but it's not a narcotic or opiate/opioid". I about fell out of the chair. I've known for a while how it's classified. I have a PDR handbook at home that my PCP gave to me since I take so many different meds on top of my pain meds. When he went to have it filled, the pharmacist said it is an opiate/opioid, but not like what I'm on. She also said if you take it for more than 5 days in a row constantly, you will have w/d when stopping it. You don't get w/d from a pain med if it's not an opiate/opioid..duh. LOL I've never heard of anyone getting w/d from Advil or Tylenol.:rolleyes: I know there are other meds you can w/d from.....certain b/p meds, benzo's, etc. I'm just talking about pain meds here.
Anyway, just my experience. Or should I say my husband's exerience. :)
Edit: opiates are alkaloids from opium..i.e., morphine & codeine. Everything else is an opioid because it's synthetic.
morgyporgy
10-08-2007, 09:45 AM
Oh boy. Just another fine example of the public knowing something before the manufacturers admit it. I have seen many many posts from people who say they get the exact same effects (if not more) from this drug than any other opiate. I also have read that this stuff is one of the hardest to come off of.
It makes you wonder if all those doctors who hand this stuff out like candy are about to make their patients suffer? You know as soon as they throw the "narcotic" label on it, they will freak out!!!! My neighbor takes this and never has to see her doctor she just calls in for refills monthly. I will be sure to share this news with her today. I am allergic to tramadol so fortunetly this does not affect me. However i do know alot of people that this may be life changing. I really honestly believe the drs. will pull back on this med and there are millions who will suffer. What a shame.
God Bless, morgy porgy
It makes you wonder if all those doctors who hand this stuff out like candy are about to make their patients suffer? You know as soon as they throw the "narcotic" label on it, they will freak out!!!! My neighbor takes this and never has to see her doctor she just calls in for refills monthly. I will be sure to share this news with her today. I am allergic to tramadol so fortunetly this does not affect me. However i do know alot of people that this may be life changing. I really honestly believe the drs. will pull back on this med and there are millions who will suffer. What a shame.
God Bless, morgy porgy
Backinthesaddle
10-08-2007, 09:46 AM
I would have to do my own research but I believe it is a synthetic narcotic. It is not made from an opiate. It has the same properties as an opiate but not derived from the same substance. I never had withdrawl symptoms when I went off it during my pregnancy I believe if you have addictive genes you can become addicted to tylenol. Our bodies become dependant but that is different then the addiction that cane be caused by a NARCOTIC such as a opiate. Remember Heroin is a opiate and has the highest addictive rates of any drug.
Arthr Itis
10-08-2007, 10:00 AM
I stopped taking Ultram after my neck surgery. The first night cold turkey was spent walking the floors. I couldn't handle not moving. I had to move every limb or it would feel like exploding. By 7 am my wife suggested taking just one. Within an hour I was sleeping like a baby. By the way, I'm one of those weird people who after ten years of 2 packs a day gave up smoking, cold turkey while surrounded by smokers at work and home. It was nothing compared to getting off Ultram. Of course now I'm back on Ultram but what difference does it make if it's addicting, I'll probably be on it the rest of my life anyway. Fred
brianpain33
10-08-2007, 06:13 PM
I am currently trying to get off of Ultram and yes it is very difficult. My new doctor had told me he considered it to be a narcotic so I guess it is true. I wonder if they will finally make ultram a controlled substance? I always thought it was strange that Lyrica is a controlled substance(shedule 5) and ultram is not. I bet this will change soon as well. I am hoping to up the patch to get over the pain "hump" in order to get off the ultram. I have been in a catch 22. I want to get off the ultram very badly because of the way it makes me feel very tired, spaced out, groggy, slows down my thinking. The other reason is that there is a major drug interaction between the ultram and the patch.I have gone from 8/day to 3/day. I am now on the patch, which helped me to get down to 3/day. However if I drop it any lower, the pain level goes way up. I am going to my doc on thursday and let you guys know what happens.
Brian
Brian
jodom1979
10-09-2007, 10:34 AM
I jump off the max dose (40mg's) daily to the patch with no side effects.. Got yelled at for doing it too... I do agree it should be put under the CSA. what class??? I have NO clue.. sched 3 or 4?
This kinda erks me... Look at klonopin.. If you cold turkey it you could potentially DIE.. its a class 4... Morphine if you cold turkey it you just get sick. And its a class 2.. I never understood the logic behind the CSA and how they are classed..
Jon
This kinda erks me... Look at klonopin.. If you cold turkey it you could potentially DIE.. its a class 4... Morphine if you cold turkey it you just get sick. And its a class 2.. I never understood the logic behind the CSA and how they are classed..
Jon
Winnie31
10-09-2007, 01:09 PM
I was on Ultram for nine months four or five a day and it was living hell trying to get off that med. I feel that this pill is worse to withdraw from than some of the other narcotic medications. It makes me sick to think about helpless people like myself going through that hell when I was never informed about what I could end up going through. So I would tell anyone thinking of taking it unless you are going to be on it for life and are ok with this then by all means take it, but if you were like me and not sure you want to be on it for that long DO NOT TAKE IT!!!
whosit
10-09-2007, 09:49 PM
wow....all this info is really educational to me......i was one of those ppl who always thought that ultram/ultracet was NOT an opiate or a narcotic! i always thought that it works because it was a drug that closley imitates the narcotics like lortab but was not an opiate, it only worked on the same receptors very closley to that of the opiate pain meds. thought I was smart for knowing that but I learn something new everyday! now I feel even smarter for knowing something that prob alot of docs still dont know!
I have a few questions about it though...
Is it classified as a controlled substance? i was thinking class 4 but not sure..
if it isnt you guys think it will be now?
and finally if it is in fact an opiate do you guys think it will start being used for opiate withdrawl and addiction? since it isnt abused as much and is weaker i think it might be a good candidate for ppl that abuse medications to have to get off of other meds. i know it can still be abused(almost everything can be somehow) but it will be much better than giving them something stronger to abuse. what do you guys think about it now being used for opiate detox(mabey)...just something I thought up, not something I heard was going to be done.
thanks
also brian please do let us know what happens when you see your doc!
whosit
I have a few questions about it though...
Is it classified as a controlled substance? i was thinking class 4 but not sure..
if it isnt you guys think it will be now?
and finally if it is in fact an opiate do you guys think it will start being used for opiate withdrawl and addiction? since it isnt abused as much and is weaker i think it might be a good candidate for ppl that abuse medications to have to get off of other meds. i know it can still be abused(almost everything can be somehow) but it will be much better than giving them something stronger to abuse. what do you guys think about it now being used for opiate detox(mabey)...just something I thought up, not something I heard was going to be done.
thanks
also brian please do let us know what happens when you see your doc!
whosit
hippydave
10-10-2007, 06:20 AM
from what i've read tramadol can be very difficult to get off, so probably not a good choice for opiate detox. but in the case of someone who's more likely to be stuck taking something permanently, probably better tramadol than one of the stronger ones.
jodom1979
10-10-2007, 08:41 AM
Well, I dont want to comepltely throw it under the bus here.. But Tramadol is good for short term pain management I think.. Like if you sprained your ankle or what not.. You know.. Something not too serious and you only need a few days of pain meds.. I think that where its place is.
Jon
Jon
whosit
10-10-2007, 09:01 AM
Well, I dont want to comepltely throw it under the bus here.. But Tramadol is good for short term pain management I think.. Like if you sprained your ankle or what not.. You know.. Something not too serious and you only need a few days of pain meds.. I think that where its place is.
Jon
Well said....I think so as well....on the opiate detox i dont think it is a good idea now as well now that I have researched it a bit more. From what i gather though in this thread is that it is not scheduled in the US at all! so do you guys think it should be classified as a controlled substance? i think it should be at least a class 5 if not a class 4. ****pedia says it is about 10% as potent as morphine when given the IV/IM route. the prescribing information for Ultram warns that tramadol "may induce psychological and physical dependence of the morphine-type". In addition, there are widespread reports by consumers of extremely difficult withdrawal experiences. it is only scheduled one place in the whole world....that is austrialia where it is a schedule 4 on thier system(backwards, other more potent ones are schedule 8 there). So mabey we need to take a closer look at this drug and do more studies on it and such. As far as it being an opiate that is true.....here is what it says at ****pedia(a place where you can copy/paste legally).
Tramadol (INN) (IPA: [ˈtræməˌdɒl]) is an atypical opioid which is a centrally acting analgesic, used for treating moderate to severe pain. It is a synthetic agent, as a 4-phenyl-piperidine analogue of codeine, and appears to have actions on the GABAergic, noradrenergic and serotonergic systems.
so there you have it...iron clad proof that it is a opiate and will cause withdrawl and in my opinion should be a schedule 4 controlled substance!
Whosit
Jon
Well said....I think so as well....on the opiate detox i dont think it is a good idea now as well now that I have researched it a bit more. From what i gather though in this thread is that it is not scheduled in the US at all! so do you guys think it should be classified as a controlled substance? i think it should be at least a class 5 if not a class 4. ****pedia says it is about 10% as potent as morphine when given the IV/IM route. the prescribing information for Ultram warns that tramadol "may induce psychological and physical dependence of the morphine-type". In addition, there are widespread reports by consumers of extremely difficult withdrawal experiences. it is only scheduled one place in the whole world....that is austrialia where it is a schedule 4 on thier system(backwards, other more potent ones are schedule 8 there). So mabey we need to take a closer look at this drug and do more studies on it and such. As far as it being an opiate that is true.....here is what it says at ****pedia(a place where you can copy/paste legally).
Tramadol (INN) (IPA: [ˈtræməˌdɒl]) is an atypical opioid which is a centrally acting analgesic, used for treating moderate to severe pain. It is a synthetic agent, as a 4-phenyl-piperidine analogue of codeine, and appears to have actions on the GABAergic, noradrenergic and serotonergic systems.
so there you have it...iron clad proof that it is a opiate and will cause withdrawl and in my opinion should be a schedule 4 controlled substance!
Whosit
friendly_one
10-10-2007, 09:59 AM
Hi All....I just wanted to add not to mix Ultram (Tramadol) and SSRI anti-depressants (Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, etc.) You can have a potential serious side effect. The pharmacist also asked my husband if he takes an SSRI when he had the Ultram filled (he doesn't, but she still asked).
My PM doc said the combination of the two can lead to a fatal seizure. The Ultram, just like any other opiate/opioid pain med, lowers your seizure threshold....and so do the SSRI anti-depressants. Also, add into the mix a benzo (Xanax, Klonopin, Valium...as most of us CP'ers take, also lowers your seizure threshold). Anyway, just be careful!! ALWAYS talk with your PM doc or PCP doc (and the pharmacist) about all of the meds you are taking. Something like overlooking an anti-depressant your PCP doc prescribed and you forgot to tell your PM doc can be very serious. Take care!! ;)
My PM doc said the combination of the two can lead to a fatal seizure. The Ultram, just like any other opiate/opioid pain med, lowers your seizure threshold....and so do the SSRI anti-depressants. Also, add into the mix a benzo (Xanax, Klonopin, Valium...as most of us CP'ers take, also lowers your seizure threshold). Anyway, just be careful!! ALWAYS talk with your PM doc or PCP doc (and the pharmacist) about all of the meds you are taking. Something like overlooking an anti-depressant your PCP doc prescribed and you forgot to tell your PM doc can be very serious. Take care!! ;)
Backinthesaddle
10-11-2007, 10:51 AM
To be an opiate it has to come from the poppy that produces the opiates ULTRAM is not made from a poppy. Look at the chemical make up and you will see it is synthetic. That said anything can be addictable if you have a genetic predisposition to additiction. That includes exercise, eating or whatever. Our bodies do become dependant on any substance that we take and yes in time we need more to keep up with the levels we got in the beginning. Many of us take the max which is 400mg a day and then top it off with a percocet or hydrocode type substance and those a opiate substance. Like Fred said who cares we will be on these meds forever, that is why we are on a pain management site.
friendly_one
10-11-2007, 11:24 AM
Mophine & Codeine are the true opiates since they are direct alkaloids from the opium plant, like I said in my first reply. Everything else is synthetic or semi-synthetic...opioids. Point being, Ultram causes w/d (in most everyone that takes it for an extended amount of time) and is classified as an opioid in the PDR. It just isn't scheduled, yet. Anyway, ask any rehab doc. The "new" inpatient detox is from Ultram (Tramadol). This isn't JMO, it's fact. Take care everyone! :)
forginon
10-11-2007, 12:11 PM
Ultram is a synthetic opioid analgesic. Because of its affinity (attraction) to the mu (mew) receptor it frequently gets called an opiate. Methadone is another fully synthetic opioid, and is one of the strongest painkillers on the market.
Because it's synthetic, and not derived from opium alkaloids, it was marketed as a non-opiate/opioid with claims of safety from dependence and addiction. Experience has taught us otherwise. Like many others here, I once used Ultram regularly for months and then decided to stop - the withdrawals were really bad. Problem was, I was new to these kind of meds and didn't know what was happening. Had I known I would have weaned myself off of them, but neither my doc nor I had a clue.
I wonder if it'll ever get scheduled. My guess, is if it does, it'll fall into the same schedule as Darvon.
steve
Because it's synthetic, and not derived from opium alkaloids, it was marketed as a non-opiate/opioid with claims of safety from dependence and addiction. Experience has taught us otherwise. Like many others here, I once used Ultram regularly for months and then decided to stop - the withdrawals were really bad. Problem was, I was new to these kind of meds and didn't know what was happening. Had I known I would have weaned myself off of them, but neither my doc nor I had a clue.
I wonder if it'll ever get scheduled. My guess, is if it does, it'll fall into the same schedule as Darvon.
steve
hippydave
10-11-2007, 11:31 PM
i've been taking tramadol regularly for probably nearly two years now, and it's effective for me - when i started taking it i fairly quickly reached a stable level of tolerance, so i haven't had to keep bumping up the dose (which was the problem i had with codeine before switching to tramadol), it doesn't give me any kind of buzz/high, so i'm not impaired and there's no craving or incentive to take more for enjoyment. so according to the medical definitions i'm not addicted - but i'm definitely dependent. several times i've run out because of a repeat prescription being delayed in the post etc, and the withdrawal is harsh. cold sweats, diarrhoea, agitation and irritability, still worsening after about 3 days, which is the longest i've been without (i realise there are people on this board taking much stronger opiates who will have experienced much worse withdrawal than i have, i can only sympathise, i'm not trying to make out that i've got it worse than anybody :) ). i've read elsewhere that even after the physical withdrawal has ended, you can then suffer depression etc because of the effects tramadol has on your serotonin (i think?) system.
so yeah doctors really need to educate themselves and their patients more about the effects of taking tramadol long-term, and the withdrawal that will result if it's stopped suddenly. but it works for me, and as i've been taking it this long already, i'm content to stay on it as long as i need to, knowing that when i want to stop i will have to try and wean myself off it slowly.
so yeah doctors really need to educate themselves and their patients more about the effects of taking tramadol long-term, and the withdrawal that will result if it's stopped suddenly. but it works for me, and as i've been taking it this long already, i'm content to stay on it as long as i need to, knowing that when i want to stop i will have to try and wean myself off it slowly.
Fabrashamx
10-12-2007, 12:07 AM
I've been with this med since it first came out, before there was a generic version avalible. about 14 years, I think.
When I first went on it, my doctor told me she wanted me to try it because it was an 'alternative to opiates'. I took 2 50 mg pills 4 times a day, and it did work well for me, but not all my pain was gone, so she prescibed it in conjunction with Baclofen and Hydrocodone.
The first time I ran out, on a trip when we wound up staying a few extra days, was horrible. I was so sick, shaking, restless legs, loose bowels, the whole deal. We had to cut our trip short and come home.
Eventually I learned from people on here that the medical community was starting to consider it a synthetic opiate, all my doctor ever said was after about 2 years, I would have to in all likelyhood be on it for the rest of my life.
My new doctor considers it an opiate, and was not happy with how much I take or how long I have been on it. He left me on all my meds, One of the things stopping me from switching to methadone, which he prefers, Is that he wants me off the ultram first, and after all these years, It would have to be such a slowww taper, and even then I risk seizures. I dont know if I want to put myself through that.
Also, Ultram still works for me, it takes care of a lot of my day to day pain, and my dose has been the same all these years. My Lortab (Hydrocodone) doseage has gone up, but not the ultram.
If I had it to do over again, I dont know that I would want to start taking it, I live in constant fear of running out, because I know how horrible the withdrawals are. I am glad they started identifying it as an opiate, because at first they were even offering it as an ideal med for people in recovery, causing them a lot of problems!
I will say I seriously doubt Ultram will ever be abused on the level of say, oxycontin, it just doesnt have that much of a 'high' feeling to it, the sleepiness and stuff that most of us hate and addicts love.
HTH~Fabby:cool:
When I first went on it, my doctor told me she wanted me to try it because it was an 'alternative to opiates'. I took 2 50 mg pills 4 times a day, and it did work well for me, but not all my pain was gone, so she prescibed it in conjunction with Baclofen and Hydrocodone.
The first time I ran out, on a trip when we wound up staying a few extra days, was horrible. I was so sick, shaking, restless legs, loose bowels, the whole deal. We had to cut our trip short and come home.
Eventually I learned from people on here that the medical community was starting to consider it a synthetic opiate, all my doctor ever said was after about 2 years, I would have to in all likelyhood be on it for the rest of my life.
My new doctor considers it an opiate, and was not happy with how much I take or how long I have been on it. He left me on all my meds, One of the things stopping me from switching to methadone, which he prefers, Is that he wants me off the ultram first, and after all these years, It would have to be such a slowww taper, and even then I risk seizures. I dont know if I want to put myself through that.
Also, Ultram still works for me, it takes care of a lot of my day to day pain, and my dose has been the same all these years. My Lortab (Hydrocodone) doseage has gone up, but not the ultram.
If I had it to do over again, I dont know that I would want to start taking it, I live in constant fear of running out, because I know how horrible the withdrawals are. I am glad they started identifying it as an opiate, because at first they were even offering it as an ideal med for people in recovery, causing them a lot of problems!
I will say I seriously doubt Ultram will ever be abused on the level of say, oxycontin, it just doesnt have that much of a 'high' feeling to it, the sleepiness and stuff that most of us hate and addicts love.
HTH~Fabby:cool: