I'm sorry about the question in the title but I'm fed up of every thought or feeling I have being immediately blamed on the BPD or depression or numerous other diagnosis I've had over the last 10+ years. Is it just me or does it sometimes feel like doctors just want to label you with something to a) shut you up/humour you, b) Be able to say they gave a diagnosis (looks good on their records)?

I'm gonna ramble for a bit, with all the stuff in my head at the moment I think it might do me some good to get it out and with the possibility that someone here might have some idea of how I'm feeling and what I'm going through.

The thing is I've spent years with self doubting and self analysis as my curse. Does being diagnsosed help? I don't think so, I think it makes things worse, give me reason to doubt myself even more and if that wasn't bad enough, now everyone else has a reason to doubt me too! Are people compassionate or understanding? Or is it a good excuse to patronise you and make you think your going mad? Whenever I'm upset now, or angry at someone or something, I'm told I'm being irrational and that it's my mental health that is making me think that way! Surely I'm allowed to have bonified reasons for being upset sometimes?

Why is it that in the 21st century any kind of mental health issue is still so stigmatised? I'm judged at every corner as being stupid by people who lack any real depth or intelligence themselves, but then surely that's just my own boosted self ego right? Do you get where I'm going yet? Nothing I think or feel is real so I'm told, in which case why exist? Swings and roundabouts.

(Please note that the comment did not come from suicidal thoughts as right now I feel ok. Needed to point that out as even discussing these feelings of frustration makes people think I'm having an episode or am suicidal!)

I feel as though my diagnosis has given people reason to not listen to me or to dismiss me more easily than they did before. The best bit is that with 10 years of diagnosis and numerous mental health workers I still don't feel as though anybody has any idea of how I feel or what I'm going through.

I don't feel any kind of medication helps, I've given up taking any now and am trying to learn to cope with it myself. (I'll let you know how this goes!) I do however have a supportive partner who always goes along with me when I'm dillusional and never dismisses my thoughts, which actually helps me funnily enough. At some point I begin thinking rationally again and he's still here for me. As much as I think he's gonna get fed up of me one day he insists he never will. At least I'm unpredictable hey?

I have a love hate relationship with myself and with the world. My mood swings are so frequently that it's impossible for me to predict how I feel when. My dad once asked me to tell him how bad I feel giving a number between 1 and 10 with 10 being the worst and 1 being the best. He said he'd call each day to check how I felt. But that's silly cause, he could phone me in the morning and seconds, minutes or hours later I could feel at the other end of the scale or somewhere in between! Even if he'd called a few times a day this could still be the case.

And we're not even going into the times when I'm so bad I don't want to answer the phone, or when I'm so fed up/frustrated or irrational that I can't deal with a converstaion with anyone. Or even when I think that everyone is out to get me including my dad! So what's the answer? I don't know, I never know. I don't know if I am who I think I am, or who I want to be, I don't know if I'm thinking rationally now, or if I was yesterday or if I will be tomorrow. How would I know if I'm rational? Even when I think I am, I later think I wasn't! My self analysis is crippling me and yet I can't stop, it's my obsession I think.

I wanna go now and wait for a reply cause if I didn't I'd go on forever. At least if I wait for a reply I can try to answer questions or ask them maybe. Perhaps get some direction for my thoughts.

Hi there Sweet D.....

I'd like to ask a couple of questions if I may....I'm in the boat with you, so please be honest.

If someone doesn't agree with you, do you feel "betrayed"?

When you are seeing a Doctor, do you ever make your symptoms sound worse, so that you'll get more attention?

Do you ever want to "get people back" for things that they've done to you, and have a hard time letting go of hurts?

Do you need to be reassured that you are loved, often?

I don't want to say any more, until I see what your answers are.

Talk soon...

Lil

Hi Sweet D,

What are you talking about? .... I love the title of your post. hehehe. jk

Seriously, I can identify with lots of things you said. I need to digest my answers, but I'll be back to post.

Daisey

Heh, do I make things look worse? I find it hard to get the doctors to understand how bad it is even, how do you put things in words when you're embarassed about them as it is or you know they are only going to try to convince you that your feelings are not legitimate anyway, and when you're suffering dillusions or paranoia and you know they are gonna say you're not rational how do you even tell them at all, if anything I have to admit I sometimes hide how bad things are, not all the time, and I often tell them how bad it got AFTER an episode rather than during. But I don't think I can get across to them how bad things are most of the time even when I try. I will explain as much as I can how I feel but still feel as though there is more I can't describe. I think sometimes this is made harder by the fact that I rarely saw the same person more than two or three times though currently I have a key worker who visits me at home regularly and he's actually going to be godfather to my new daughter. I find it easier to talk to him openly but even then never completely. I often feel that if I say the truth I'll get locked away, I know this in itself is probably irrational, or that he'll judge me or belittle how I feel. I guess I don't really trust anyone.

Do I feel betrayed when people don't agree with me? I'm not sure, I'd like to think that I'm quite good at listening to others opinions, I certainly try at least though I probably find it hard to accept their argument I don't think I feel betrayed by it.

Do I feel I have to get people back? That's a hard one, I know I certainly used to, again I'd like to think I've progressed from that with age though I've not had cause to hold a grudge lately. I did used to feel I needed to get my own back, and I used to be EXTREMELY what I'd call evil in my plans to do so. Often in a pyschological manner, never with violence. I did used to hold those ideas for a long time too, though now as I said I don't think I have that same problem anymore, though it would have to be tested to know for sure.

Do I need reassurance of love? Previously, perhaps no more than a year and a half ago before I met my current partner, I refused to let ANYONE love me at all. I never got on with my mother and if she tried to hug me I'd blatently push her off of me. I never believed anyone who used the word love even, not to me or to anyone else. I was totally cynical, despite an ok relationship with my dad, I stopped talking to him about 2 years ago after he tried to intrude on what I would call an episode. I'd locked myself away in my house refusing to answer the phone or door filled with paranoia and irrational beliefs. My dad wouldn't leave me alone and my irrational beliefs spilled over on to him I guess. I finally told him I didn't want him in my life at all anymore and that he was manipulative and controlling (I still don't think this is too far from the truth though, perhaps not to the extreme that I needed to stop any contact though). Then I met my current partner who is always telling me he loves me and that I'm beautiful and if I ever have any negative images of myself he does reassure me, though I never believe a word of it. I often don't believe he really does love me but that he's with me out of some self interst, though not sure what. I've never had reassurance of love before and never sought it out, and though I'm sure things might be worse without the reassurance I get from my partner, it still doesn't REALLY reassure me at all if that makes sense?

SweetD,

First I want you to know that I truely believe that no one here is going to judge anything you say, there are no shocking statements amoung this group. I believe this is a place you can really, just tell us what is going on and get a listening ear and some great support. This along with inside perspective from some who have experienced the same types of things that you do.
Your post has my attention, prayers, and support.
I want to ask a few questions if I may....

-- you mentioned that you have a daughter - have things gotten worse since you had her? Is it possibly a contribution of PPD? My BP got much worse after my first child - off the charts!

--when was the last time you saw your pDr?
--do you think your med's are working the way they should?
--are you on med's that control some of the effects of BP, such as antidepressants, antipsy, moodstabilizers, or anxiety medication?

I will be in and out today, but I will look for your next post.
Meanwhile, please know that I'm sending you a very big HUG and a sincere Welcome.

:bouncing: Daisey :wave:

After my first child things got really really really bad, I was ok with her to begin with during the daytime but at night when I wanted to lay her down in the bed next to me, I was so scared that she was going to turn into something else and kill me in her sleep. I know it sounds totally crazy and I even knew at the time that I was being stupid but I just couldn't shake the fear I had or make the thoughts go away. It was the first time I'd had really bad thoughts like that, though I'd had paranoia before nothing quite so obviously ludricous.

I was too scared to tell anyone because I knew it was completely nuts and noone would believe that she was going to turn into something else and kill me! Things pretty much detiorated and began to change how I was with her during the day. It got to a point where I could hardly bare to pick her up and I began neglecting her. I was wracked with guilt and turned to drugs for a short while before finally seeking help. I was very close to being sectioned when my mum stepped in and they allowed me to go and stay with her for a while instead. I'd even phoned up to arrange foster care for my daughter. This is really a long story though and much more complex than I can type at the moment.

To cut a long story short, that was my experience with my first child and when my BP first went off the scale so to speak. Since then it's been up and down but oddly enough with my second child all I had was the high for about 2 years with very little lows. I spent that whole time not really sleeping ever and yes I didn't feel tired either. It was a great feeling and if I could feel like that forever I would.

I just gave birth to my third child and haven't begun taking any meds again yet, however I've been tried on so many meds and nothing has ever really worked.

They started me with things like valium and prozac, moved on to seroxat, amitryptaline, Lustral, Risperdal and Cipralex (I'm unsure if these are the medical names for them or not). Some of these made it impossible for me to even get out of bed, others sent me up the walls where I felt like I was gonna bang my head off the walls just to stop the feeling they gave me, I couldn't cope with it, rollerblading in the street at 3am etc..

The only thing that did make me feel a little better was when I could self dose with the Risperdal an anti-psychotic. This was because I could give myself just a small amount if I needed. I felt better too when I was allowed to self dose with Tamazipan a sleeping tablet. I'd only take a small enough amount to calm myself down when I felt I was too manic.

I saw my Pychiatrist for 7 years before he signed me off, he never gave me a reason and nothing had really changed, if anything at the time things were worse, I was going through a pretty horrific stage of depression. I was only recently referred again for assesment after my last episode. At that point I was assigned my key worker who is now referring me for therapy again.

Thankyou for answering me too as even typing this stuff up is helping my mood.

I think I wanted to add that sometimes I feel as though it's unfair on those around me and that's why I push them away. It isn't always because I think bad of them, sometimes it's to protect them too. I often feel very guilty when I see what I am doing to them. I know it confuses my fiance. My children seem to take it in their stride though. I sometimes get black outs too or moments where I just stop functioning (I'm not sure what this is related to yet as my key worker has suggested a number of reasons for this). I didn't know I had blackouts until I met my fiance and then he told me and it was very scary and still is. The thing that scared me more was how long it must have been going on as he told me that he asked my eldest daughter for a phone number of someone to call and she told him not to worry mummy gets like this sometimes and she'll be ok soon!

I don't know where I go when I get like that, or what I'm thinking, I notice it now though because things don't add up sometimes, I know I also get a temperature when it happens and often feel 'ill' before hand. I can't explain what I mean by 'ill', just that I don't feel quite right, like time and space feels 'different'.

SweetD,

Very, very good description.

First, I want to state clearly. I DON'T think your crazy, or that what you experienced with your first child was crazy thoughts.

I think that your hormones and the BP - played some really good games with you.

I'm ashamed of you Pdr - just casting you off like that. it actually makes me angry.

I really, really want to see if you will go see a new doctor. I do think that the med's are critical for you (and me). Have you tried Lamictal. It is fairly new to the BP treatment plan. It has made a Huge difference to me.
Do you still take the Risperdal? You may need that again.

I also have 3 children, I experienced severe mood changes, anxiety, fear, paranoid times, and sever depression/mania after each one. Sometime it lasted for years and then other times it was months.

I know that these symptoms can be controlled. It can be better, but you have to find the right medication - and that takes a little mix/match.

It doesn't sound like your first Pdr was very good, and this can account for your disappointment selection of meds.

My desire for you is that you live a symptom controlled, healthy life. I think in order for you to do that you have to have a safe place to talk to people who understand you.

We understand here.

I also think you need to go to a new doctor as soon as possible. Get a reassesment of your medication. You deserve this much.

You need to vent, vent, vent, vent. Here is a great place to do that. Type away. We will never get tired of you or reading posts - I promise.

Love yourself a little more today than you did yesterday, take a few moments to just be you.

Hugs and wishes - Daisey

I wanted to talk about OCD for a little bit. I know it can be a side affect of the BP. My fiance does all the cleaning in my house now because I couldn't cope with it at all. I was only diagnosed recently with OCD as it was hard to tell I had it when you looked at the mess in my house. The thing was that in my head everything had a place (and I mean every single individual item) but nothing was in it's place. The reason for this was that I couldn't just go and do the washing up or just the hoovering because in order for me to wash up I had to clean all the sides first, and if I cleaned all the sides I had to clean the cooker, fridge, radiator, cupboards, skirting boards, lightswitches, floor and sometimes even the windows and walls. That was just so that I could put the clean plates away after I'd washed them! It was the same with the hoovering and I'd have to move all the furniture too. So washing up or hoovering was a 3 hour job at least. Often I couldn't even just do that, I'd have to then do the whole house room by room, corner to corner, ceiling to floor. It was easier to ignore the mess as much as I could (though this wasn't really eays as it often led to me feeling depressed at the mess)

When the OCD was diagnosed I phoned my dad and told him and he said he'd always know that! I asked him how as he'd never mentioned it to me before, and he told me how even as a child when he asked me to pick up the toys in my room I'd still be there an hour or two later and he'd come to check on me. I'd have a huge pile of things in the center of my bedroom floor where I'd emptied all wardrobes, drawers, shelves, boxes etc.. Nothing was left out. I'd then sit and go through everything one by one putting it away. Every single teddy of my collection had to be in a specific place, each one had it's own spot in my room and I couldn't put it anywhere else. Each item of clothing had to be put in a particular spot in the wardrobe or drawers in a specific order and so on. So even picking up toys in my room would take me a few hours. I don't know where this came from or whether I had BP then or just OCD. I don't know if one led to the other or if they are unconnected.

Oh I wanted to add something that might make you laugh too. As I didn't know I had OCD before or that what I did was not 'normal' it is only now on reflection that I have to giggle at my previous behaviour and what people must have thought of me. Often I have visited a friends house and offered to wash up after a meal or just to help out. When I have done it they have always commented on how sparkling I get their cutlery or crockery and ask me how I do it. I use burning hot water that is so hot that the items dry the second they are removed from the water! The funny thing is they have regularly asked why I have moved all their crockery or cutlery around to which I have responded "Because you had them all in the wrong order!"

I just though this was normal! I have to have all the cutlery and crockery in a certain order and if I am at someones house it seems only natural to re-arrange it for them. I'm only being helpful!

Can you come to my house and be OCD for a few days. ahahahahhahahha - rolling on the floor.
You've got me on the lighter side now... bare with my humor.
I have gotten more OCD as time when on. Sometimes I actually feel a OCD time coming on and am greatful for a while my house will be spotless. I'd vacume every corner. Steam clean the carpets until the fibers unraveled. My husband will come in the next day and ask if CSI came in an cut out a sample of carpet for crime scene evidence. Refold everything in the towel closet perfectly.

I can, without hesitation, guarentee that my kids do NOT have a cleaning OCD. If there was an opposite disease, like UN-OCD - they'd have it.
I'm going to Chattanooga overnight, and my son just brought me his entire closet of clothes to pack for him. Atleaset 20 pairs of pants - only pants.

I think some of my OCD is situational - 3 kids can cause that - when you have to pick up the same toy 50 times a day and clean the same table 75 times a day... Ohhhhh maybe OCD is situationally conditioned.

O.K... serious now.

After my first child was born, about 6 months old. I worked in a high stress engineering position - which kept me consumed at home and work. Everyday when I would go to work, I'd drop my son off at the sitter and then go to work. One day in the middle of a meeting - I panic'ed = I COULDN"T remember taking my son to the sitter. It was hot out and I ran out of the room down the 4 floors and out into the large parking lot. When I got the car - ofcourse - my son was not there.
Later in the Same day - I panic'ed again and couldn't remember if I really saw him, or if he wasn't there. I ran down again.
The next day it happend again and again and again.
I started marking my hand with a pen everyday that I got out of the car and made sure he wasn't left in the car. Well that worked the first day, then I stared to question if the mark was from the day before and it I had actually made dropped him off. I'd run down 5 -6 more times.
Then I started to write the day of the week on my hand... worked a while, then I started to doubt that I actually accidently wrote the right day, but hadn't dropped him off.
I moved to writing the color of my shirt on my hand. Making sure that I never wore the same color....
This went on and on - tormenting me, because in Calif. several children had died from being left in the car. Horrid visions would enter my mind of my son suffering.

It was hellish - I had to change my med's - I never could control it.
I still don't know how I didn't get fired for my erradic behavior. The creative side of hypermania always pulled me through to a new promotion.

you ever have that happen?

eek, I actually did forget to pick my daughter up from nursery a few times (only with first child though) and sometimes forgot to take her home with me from friends houses (unfortunately they always grabbed me before I'd got very far out the door! LOL) But yes similar things have happened to me though I never actually started making a way of combatting it such as the mark on your hand! What a good idea! :D

I regularly think that I can't say a fear out loud lest voicing it triggers something in me though, like I can feel it inside and I know as soon as I say it it'll be like climbing on that rollercoaster! I've also regularly found myself somewhere and can't remember how I got there, despite that I may have had to drive and cross numerous junctions, roundabouts, trafficlights etc and wondered if I was ever going to get a ticket through my door for jumping a light or speeding or something as i have no idea if I was driving ok.

I have also been at home and got so confused as to whether I had picked the kids up from school or not even though school wasn't over yet because I couldn't remember picking them up the day before or taking them again in the morning and so thought I'd left them at school overnight. Of course this makes no sense as the school would surely have phoned me if I'd not collected them!

I have also had horrific pictures come in my head where I've often allowed myself to become so carried away by them that I feel they are a premonition. Just last wednesday, I was away in Somerset with my family and we had decided to visit Bristol Museum. But as I sat there I had a picture come in my head of my 5 yr old vanishing into black water. For a few hours I couldn't even talk because I figured if I stopped us from going because of this picture my fiance would say I'm nuts and irrational and nothing was going to happen, but inside I really felt it would. Then I sat and told my daughter that when we get there she must hold my hand the entire time and if she let go she was going to be in big trouble.

My partner asked me what was wrong (he obviously knows me well!) and I couldn't tell him. I was actually relieved when he had an epileptic seizure as it was a good excuse for us not to go. I did eventually tell him what had been in my head Saturday.

911 triggered a lot of frequent similar episodes and depression. A mixture of seeing those people in my head and feeling perhaps how they must have felt and seeing myself or my children in that situation, buried under rubble. I spent days and nights trying to work out how I would save them if it ever happened to them. It became an obsession that I had to know how I would save them, I never did figure it out as hard as I tried. It had become a mission.

I've also had thoughts of war in this country, soldiers bursting through our house, me trying to hide my children, keep them quiet, should I hide them together or seperately, should I hide with them? etc... It would go round my head for ridiculous amounts of time and stop me sleeping.

As for the manic episodes as high as they make you feel sometimes do you ever get where you can't feel good with it because you know that it won't be long before you come back down? I feel interupted or disturbed by that thought sometimes when I'm on a high.

I have invented a few things though due to that creativeness you mentioned though as yet I haven't managed to market my ideas. I do have some interest in them. I've also had amazing ideas for new businesses if only I had the funding. I once organised a new charity too but I messed it up on the downer! I went to the CVS for advice on how to set up as a charity and was given a million booklets and leaflets on what I had to do. They told me it would take me about 2 years in total to do everything I needed and that it would take 3 people.

I did it all on my own in 3 weeks and had the opening night organised and advertised in the paper. I had lots of interest from other charities that wanted to help, funding organised and lots more. But then came the downer and I had to cancel it all. I'd still like to do it one day when I can be more reliable or get the help I need so that it can continue to run when I'm not doing so well.

Yes, I do get down at the thought of knowing It will go away.. lately my med's seem to have me stable. I started a med with my mood stabilizer and antidepressant - called Deplin. It is amazing!! It is a combo natural elements/vitamin and It has made ALL the difference in my inter thoughts.

Yes - I do know exactly what you mean about fear of voicing what you feel - afraid it will trigger something. I've just never been brave enough to say even that outloud.

I read your reply and heaved a huge sigh of relief. It's the first time in my life I've ever felt that someone really DID understand exactly how I feel and what I go through. Noone in my life understands how debilitating it can be or how it can stop you from functioning and doing even the simplest of tasks. How it messes you up inside, feeling as though you have waves wash over you for brief periods of clarity then as though you're lost in the sea again.

Right now you are helping me keep that feeling of clarity though and I appreciate it a lot. I only wish this was how I felt all the time, able to function, able to explain and able to understand myself.

SweetD,

That is exactly how I felt when I joined the board. Your going to love some of the people here. For some reason their not posting today. I know many of them are away. Read some of Tinker's posts and Llama's -- I think your really going to love them. They go through the same things we do. I can't tell you how much comfort I've felt knowing "we are not alone"

You've helped me too. Your honesty has helped me know things I haven't voiced are o.k.

I really hope that you make an appointment to see a good Pdr. You still haven't answered that question. I understand if you don't want to, but you owe it to yourself to give it another try.

I really enjoy our conversations. I almost feel bad that I have to leave home in an hour or so to go away for the night. I'll be back tomorrow night and I'm sure by then others will have welcomed you. I can't wait for Tinker (Tiff) and others to get to know you.

I'll be here for a little while...

((((((((((((((Biggest Hug I can give you)))))))))))))))

:bouncing: Daisey :wave: ;) :D :) :wave:

I'm good at avoidance too!

I've just been reading about Borderline Personality Disorder which I was also diagnosed with a long time ago, but after reading things from other parents I'm now concerned that my 10 year old has it too.

Yes, I'm concerned about my 10yr old son.

I will talk to you on Monday.....bfn :bouncing:

Sweet D...

Will you print this thread out, and show it to your Doctor, the next time you go? Please?

Your issues are complicated. The thing that we have to remember about Doctors, is that they have only read about what we go thru in books. They understand how it SHOULD work IN THEORY, but the brain is so complex, that we don't all fit into the categories exactly like we should. Bad us!

I think that you have more going on than bi-polar....even some of the stuff you said about your Dad spoke volumes to me.

The part that's disturbing me the most, is the loss of time. I have had that happen to me 5 times. The last time, it lasted a week, and I tried to kill myself during that period. I don't remember anything about it.

So, please tell me that you will show all your posts to your Doctor. You can get thru this, but I do think you need help.

Please let me know, I'm concerned.

Lil

I've told my doctor about the black outs and time loss and visions that I get too. The doctors here always seem to be checking out the clock and not really hearing anything that I say at all. They mumble lots and then rush me out the room.

Hi,

I join the others who wish you another doc. I have a PA who worked in neurology for years as a pdoc, and she sees me as often as I ask, sometimes every week if I need it. And she gives me a full hour each time, listens, reacts, understands.
I hope for you that you can find someone like this. I've had the kind of doc you describe, and I found with them that I couldn't even cooperate with their med regimes - I didn't trust them to know what I was going through.

Fingers crossed for you,

Seaturtle

Heh, ok not sure about seeing a doctor, my trust issues right now are overwhelming me. However, my key worker (a pychiatric social worker) visits me every week at the moment (cause of just having a baby) and I PROMISE that I will login here and let him read what I have written. Perhaps it will help him understand me a little. I'm writing things down that I have never managed to put into words before. Not just here but in other threads too. I do thank everyone again for their support though, it is nice to know others not only understand but genuinely care too.

Tonight I know I will go to bed and my fiance will hold me tight and if I need to cry he will let me and if I need to be held till I fall asleep I know he will do that too. He often sings to me quietly or tells me made up stories to help me fall asleep just as if I were a little girl being nurtured. Something I never had as a girl but always imagined that was what good parents did. He makes me feel safe and secure and warm and loved at those moments no matter how little trust I have at any other time. Sometimes it may take him hours to calm me down till I feel that way and fall asleep but he always manages it in the end because he doesn't give up till he has.

I know I will fall asleep tonight feeling safe and loved. I only pray and hope that everyone will because I can feel inside that everyone here deserves that.

First of all...SweetD...Welcome to the board and I'm sorry that I was not here to welcome you when you first got here. There is so much comfort here and everyone is sooo very kind and caring and it is so genuine that I know with myself I wish I knew everyone off the board and we were able to sit in a circle and have support meetings. Please forgive me for being brief(which I'm normally not) but I've had mixed eps all weekend...depressed and manic...so I havent had much sleep in a few nights and I'm crashing fast tonight. So I'm going to just say that I know how you feel about what you're going through. I myself can be somewhat OCD but it's not that bad unless I let it get to me and there are many times that in certain situations I allow it to get to me. About the feeling of loss of time...I have that happen to me all the time. It'll feel almost like your'e in a daze or a fog...I have many times driven somewhere and not remember the drive really. It's almost like I get lost in my own world is the easiest way to explain it.
You are very lucky to have a supportive and loving fiance. I think what he does for you is so sweet and you deserve that love and affection that he shows you.
I'll post back tomorrow but I'm going to sleep before I fall asleep on the keyboard lol. Hope you have a great night.
(((((hugs)))))