zonk
11-04-2007, 06:46 AM
Mum had a fall the other week and basically fell "face first"
she previously had been shuffling. I beleive her spatial awareness has deteriorated significantly.
mum has been very agitated and was being given anti-pshycotics and anti depressive meds. they have discontinued aricept.
due to the fall she had a brief visit at hospital and had a few stiches ....she has a huge lump on her forehead and 2 black eyes.
mum had previously been mobile,verbal and eating well.(but with mod-severe dementia)
got a call at 6.15 am this morning(sunday) from the NH to say she was
"not responding neurologically" and that she was being transferred to hospital.
She is suddenly no longer swallowing, non verbal and has no urine output.
Therefore the hospital did blood tests, tested for a UTI, and did a CT.
CT showed brain atrophy, no stroke. no UTI
they think it is some kind of infection
Hospital put her on a sedative, and as she ripped out her first IV, they shackled her to the bed. So she is now shackled with an IV and catheter and showing obvious signs of distress. she was fighting the shackles trying to remove the cathetar
they still dont know what is wrong
I know that she would have EVENTUALLY had trouble speaking and swallowing but I always thought it would be a gradual deterioration
she cannot speak but from her moans etc i requested pain killers as they had not authorised any:confused:
I have already decided no peg feeding should it come to that, but if she cannot or will not swallow a drink, how can I allow them to shackle her for the IV??
I know that you can survive a lot longer without food than drink
i think that what I am asking is what is the difference between forced peg feeding and forced IV fluids?
watching her fight the shackles highly distressed was ABSOLUTE torture...
I just dont want her to suffer.
(if i had a thesaurus i would find another word for distressed)
BTW...I have medical POA
Please reply to the best of your knowledge
Please help me help my mum (71 years)
kind regards,
Jo
she previously had been shuffling. I beleive her spatial awareness has deteriorated significantly.
mum has been very agitated and was being given anti-pshycotics and anti depressive meds. they have discontinued aricept.
due to the fall she had a brief visit at hospital and had a few stiches ....she has a huge lump on her forehead and 2 black eyes.
mum had previously been mobile,verbal and eating well.(but with mod-severe dementia)
got a call at 6.15 am this morning(sunday) from the NH to say she was
"not responding neurologically" and that she was being transferred to hospital.
She is suddenly no longer swallowing, non verbal and has no urine output.
Therefore the hospital did blood tests, tested for a UTI, and did a CT.
CT showed brain atrophy, no stroke. no UTI
they think it is some kind of infection
Hospital put her on a sedative, and as she ripped out her first IV, they shackled her to the bed. So she is now shackled with an IV and catheter and showing obvious signs of distress. she was fighting the shackles trying to remove the cathetar
they still dont know what is wrong
I know that she would have EVENTUALLY had trouble speaking and swallowing but I always thought it would be a gradual deterioration
she cannot speak but from her moans etc i requested pain killers as they had not authorised any:confused:
I have already decided no peg feeding should it come to that, but if she cannot or will not swallow a drink, how can I allow them to shackle her for the IV??
I know that you can survive a lot longer without food than drink
i think that what I am asking is what is the difference between forced peg feeding and forced IV fluids?
watching her fight the shackles highly distressed was ABSOLUTE torture...
I just dont want her to suffer.
(if i had a thesaurus i would find another word for distressed)
BTW...I have medical POA
Please reply to the best of your knowledge
Please help me help my mum (71 years)
kind regards,
Jo
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Martha H
11-04-2007, 08:34 AM
Dear Jo,
I am so sorry. You must be worried sick. I am unable to help you figure out what went wrong, but it is certainly not the usual course of Alzheimers, which is sloow and seems to take forever. It must be some other kind of infection. I am praying all will be well and your Mom will continue to do better.
Love,
Martha
I am so sorry. You must be worried sick. I am unable to help you figure out what went wrong, but it is certainly not the usual course of Alzheimers, which is sloow and seems to take forever. It must be some other kind of infection. I am praying all will be well and your Mom will continue to do better.
Love,
Martha
WasFatNoMore
11-04-2007, 12:16 PM
My Grandmother went downhill real fast, stopped eating, drinking, walking and was gone in a week. It was like the spring just ran down, fast but I suppose merciful.
DGabriel10
11-04-2007, 12:18 PM
I too am truly sorry for your Mother's distress. Nobody can tell you what is best for you and your Mom. You need to have a long heart to heart talk with your Mom's physician and express your concerns and question. He will be able to tell you what they are doing and why. Never hesitate to chase a doctor down and question what he is doing.
In a hospital setting, one of the differences between a peg and iv is that the iv is used to transport medications into the patient. I did have a situation with my dad about a year ago. He was in the hospital for unknown reason. They suspected a stroke and hooked up the iv. By the time he became aware of his surroundings again we had determined it was an accidental medication overdose that Mom, in her confusion, had given to him. The night he "woke up" he was combative, aggitated, and pulled out his iv. I happened to be there. I knew the cause of his condition by then and refused to let the nurses put the iv back in or use soft restraints and requesting that I talk to the doctor. The nurse balked but when I told her flat out we refused the IV and had a right to refuse treatment she left it out. The doctor told me as long as he thought Dad was in danger the iv was important for quick drug administration and hydration but he didn't think that was any longer necessary and it was dad's right to refuse any treatment. So they left the iv out for the remainder of his visit. That is not the only time we have "refused treatment"..... but we have always done it knowledgeable after much discussion.
Another time I watched my grandmother in much the same situation you are in now. They were feeding massive amounts of antibiotics into her system by ivs to fight an infection. When they came out of the room to inform my mother that they had been successful in fighting the infection I remember well my Mom asking this question...... "To what end?!" I truly didn't understand it then but I do now. Nannie spent two more years in a nursing home bed immoble, incontinent, and basically unaware of her surrounding.
We don't know the future or how your Mother will come through this medical treatment. She may be back to herself as Dad or like Nannie. So the decision as what to do is yours with knowledge of your specific case. So my best suggestion to you is to talk to your Mom's doctor. Find out as much as you can. Talk to other medical professionals that are familiar with her case. Don't leave any quetion unask or doubt in your mind. Then stand up for what you think is right and don't let anybody stand in your way. And once that decision is made know you have done the best you can with the knowledge you have at the moment and leave the guilt behind.
Know you will stay in my thoughts and prayers...
Love, Deb
In a hospital setting, one of the differences between a peg and iv is that the iv is used to transport medications into the patient. I did have a situation with my dad about a year ago. He was in the hospital for unknown reason. They suspected a stroke and hooked up the iv. By the time he became aware of his surroundings again we had determined it was an accidental medication overdose that Mom, in her confusion, had given to him. The night he "woke up" he was combative, aggitated, and pulled out his iv. I happened to be there. I knew the cause of his condition by then and refused to let the nurses put the iv back in or use soft restraints and requesting that I talk to the doctor. The nurse balked but when I told her flat out we refused the IV and had a right to refuse treatment she left it out. The doctor told me as long as he thought Dad was in danger the iv was important for quick drug administration and hydration but he didn't think that was any longer necessary and it was dad's right to refuse any treatment. So they left the iv out for the remainder of his visit. That is not the only time we have "refused treatment"..... but we have always done it knowledgeable after much discussion.
Another time I watched my grandmother in much the same situation you are in now. They were feeding massive amounts of antibiotics into her system by ivs to fight an infection. When they came out of the room to inform my mother that they had been successful in fighting the infection I remember well my Mom asking this question...... "To what end?!" I truly didn't understand it then but I do now. Nannie spent two more years in a nursing home bed immoble, incontinent, and basically unaware of her surrounding.
We don't know the future or how your Mother will come through this medical treatment. She may be back to herself as Dad or like Nannie. So the decision as what to do is yours with knowledge of your specific case. So my best suggestion to you is to talk to your Mom's doctor. Find out as much as you can. Talk to other medical professionals that are familiar with her case. Don't leave any quetion unask or doubt in your mind. Then stand up for what you think is right and don't let anybody stand in your way. And once that decision is made know you have done the best you can with the knowledge you have at the moment and leave the guilt behind.
Know you will stay in my thoughts and prayers...
Love, Deb
Dingoes
11-04-2007, 12:30 PM
Gads, Zonk, I'm so sorry for what you're going through! My grandmother also had to be restrained her first night in the hospital because of ripping out her IV, but they then got it on so tight (it was almost like a cast) she couldn't get it off and they took her out of restraints.
The problem with hospitals is basically, they are legally obligated to do everything they can to save your Mum, whether she wants to cooperate or not. That includes restraints if needed for IV meds and hydration. I don't think you get a choice about IVs in the hospital -- if you wanted to discontinue that (which doesn't sound like a good idea to me) you'd have to check Mum out.
As to peg feeding, this is a term I haven't yet encountered so I can't comment on it (I'm very new to all of this myself).
The problem with hospitals is basically, they are legally obligated to do everything they can to save your Mum, whether she wants to cooperate or not. That includes restraints if needed for IV meds and hydration. I don't think you get a choice about IVs in the hospital -- if you wanted to discontinue that (which doesn't sound like a good idea to me) you'd have to check Mum out.
As to peg feeding, this is a term I haven't yet encountered so I can't comment on it (I'm very new to all of this myself).
zonk
11-05-2007, 06:17 AM
thankyou all for your replies, I really appreciate it.
what a difference a day makes.
when I posted I thought she was dying because of the inability to swallow or speak,even though it was sudden. I watched my father die of a brain tumour and went through the "body shutting down" thing
Mum was shackled in the ER but admitted awaiting a bed.
when I rang today "the nurse is helping your mum go to the toilet"
I never have heard such sweeter words.
she has NO shackles now
cathetar to be removed tomorrow
they are doing more blood work and testing (again) for a UTI
But today she has started to eat & drink (phew) and talk
granted the nurses cant understand a word she is saying but that doesnt matter cause she is talking again
hopefully we are over this crisis and she can return to the NH
and I am feeling quite a bit better...no serious medical decisions to make (for now anyway)
kind regards,
Jo
what a difference a day makes.
when I posted I thought she was dying because of the inability to swallow or speak,even though it was sudden. I watched my father die of a brain tumour and went through the "body shutting down" thing
Mum was shackled in the ER but admitted awaiting a bed.
when I rang today "the nurse is helping your mum go to the toilet"
I never have heard such sweeter words.
she has NO shackles now
cathetar to be removed tomorrow
they are doing more blood work and testing (again) for a UTI
But today she has started to eat & drink (phew) and talk
granted the nurses cant understand a word she is saying but that doesnt matter cause she is talking again
hopefully we are over this crisis and she can return to the NH
and I am feeling quite a bit better...no serious medical decisions to make (for now anyway)
kind regards,
Jo
DGabriel10
11-05-2007, 11:36 AM
That is good news Jo. You never spoke truer words. "What a difference a day makes!" It seems we are all on the big dementia roller coaster with all it's highs and lows. May you have smooth going for a while.....
Love, Deb
Love, Deb
zonk
11-08-2007, 06:31 AM
5 days in hospital now, with no change,mum still on cathetar, IV,sedatives, pain meds
Mum is not eating,drinking,urinating, evacuating,speaking...I hope she will recover,but I suspect she is dying
all diagnostic tests are negative.
poor mum only 71 years old.
Mum is not eating,drinking,urinating, evacuating,speaking...I hope she will recover,but I suspect she is dying
all diagnostic tests are negative.
poor mum only 71 years old.
Martha H
11-08-2007, 08:10 AM
Oh no, I am so sorry. You and your Mom are in my prayers.
Love,
Martha
Love,
Martha
DGabriel10
11-08-2007, 12:25 PM
You and your Mom will stay in my thoughts and prayers Zonk.
Love, Deb
Love, Deb
LuvMyLilDoggie
11-08-2007, 02:06 PM
Oh Zonk..I just got to the board and read your post. I am so sorry. It's excruciating to watch someone go thru this and not be able to help.
You, your dear mother and your family are in my thoughts and prayers.
Love, Barb
You, your dear mother and your family are in my thoughts and prayers.
Love, Barb
angel_bear
11-08-2007, 05:06 PM
Hey Zonk,
Sorry to hear about Mum's decline .. what an awful time for you !!
My heart and prayers are with you during this difficult time, but try and remember, if this is Mum's time, then soon she will be whole and at peace again.
71 is too young, but in her spiral downwards with this disease, the sooner the better. My FIL died at 71, it would have been earlier if he and I hadn't been a pro-active team in his healthcare. But lung disease is so different from AD I can't really compare.
Sorry you and Mum are in this position so soon.
Sorry to hear about Mum's decline .. what an awful time for you !!
My heart and prayers are with you during this difficult time, but try and remember, if this is Mum's time, then soon she will be whole and at peace again.
71 is too young, but in her spiral downwards with this disease, the sooner the better. My FIL died at 71, it would have been earlier if he and I hadn't been a pro-active team in his healthcare. But lung disease is so different from AD I can't really compare.
Sorry you and Mum are in this position so soon.
Dingoes
11-09-2007, 01:35 AM
Zonk, I'm so sorry to hear what you're going through with your Mum. That's so young to go nowadays. But the bright side is, it sounds like her pain and suffering will be over soon, and that really is the best I can wish for both of you.
zonk
11-13-2007, 05:31 AM
h everyone,
the doctors took mum off the IV to see if she could sustain life orally and determined that she could so mum went back to the NH today.
NH rang this evening , mum has been found on the floor 3 times since readmittance. She is back on the cathetar and not eating/drinking much.(or speaking)
NH now wants "in writing" my wishes for medical intervention
I have medical POA.
I have already decided no peg feeding,no restraints and I dont know know what else to cover in this letter.
I want them to continue to administer drugs, treat infection, but NH in australia dont "do" IV`s
so I dont know what happens when it gets to this.
Should I continue to allow them to take her to hospital for re hydration via IV
I dont know how they are getting the medicine into her now?
I do not believe in the phylosiphy (sp) of sustain life above all else as she has a terminal illness
I do not want to make my mum suffer (any more than she already has)
any advice on how to write this letter gratefully received.
Kind regards,
Jo
the doctors took mum off the IV to see if she could sustain life orally and determined that she could so mum went back to the NH today.
NH rang this evening , mum has been found on the floor 3 times since readmittance. She is back on the cathetar and not eating/drinking much.(or speaking)
NH now wants "in writing" my wishes for medical intervention
I have medical POA.
I have already decided no peg feeding,no restraints and I dont know know what else to cover in this letter.
I want them to continue to administer drugs, treat infection, but NH in australia dont "do" IV`s
so I dont know what happens when it gets to this.
Should I continue to allow them to take her to hospital for re hydration via IV
I dont know how they are getting the medicine into her now?
I do not believe in the phylosiphy (sp) of sustain life above all else as she has a terminal illness
I do not want to make my mum suffer (any more than she already has)
any advice on how to write this letter gratefully received.
Kind regards,
Jo
teapot
11-13-2007, 08:02 AM
You may need to tell the NH to call you before they transport your LO to the hospital. My Dad made numerous trips to the hospital and always came back in worse shape than before. I was worried they would find him unconsious and send him again, so I sent them a letter telling them they had to call me.
Can you get hospice care to come into the NH?
Can you get hospice care to come into the NH?
Dingoes
11-13-2007, 11:49 PM
Zonk, I'm so sorry.
Would it be possible for the NH staff to provide you with a sample letter? It would help if you knew the kind of choices they expect you to make, spelled out in front of you so you could pretty much say "yes" or "no" to specific courses of action.
Would it be possible for the NH staff to provide you with a sample letter? It would help if you knew the kind of choices they expect you to make, spelled out in front of you so you could pretty much say "yes" or "no" to specific courses of action.
zonk
11-15-2007, 05:20 AM
things have changed again...as they do
thankyou all for your help and taking the time to reply
Mums physical condition has not improved.
Culminating in a call to me this morning from the aged care assessment team. Who were very understanding and addressed the difficult issues very tactfully.
the ultimate purpose of the call was to review mums care considering her sustained physical deterioration, and to find out the "family wishes"
mum`s new care plan is palliative.(hospice)-joint decision between me and ACAT)
it is the best course to alleviate her suffering. I will not actively seek medical intervention again.
so there is nothing more to be done.
I asked ACAT to advise my brother
I have explained to my children what this means.
I feel oddly at peace with this decision because I have had a long time to think about it. I dont need to "hold on to her" anymore.
she had slipped from my grasp some time ago.
how long will she survive?
i know the answer...its as proverbial as that piece of string.
kind regards to you all,
Jo
thankyou all for your help and taking the time to reply
Mums physical condition has not improved.
Culminating in a call to me this morning from the aged care assessment team. Who were very understanding and addressed the difficult issues very tactfully.
the ultimate purpose of the call was to review mums care considering her sustained physical deterioration, and to find out the "family wishes"
mum`s new care plan is palliative.(hospice)-joint decision between me and ACAT)
it is the best course to alleviate her suffering. I will not actively seek medical intervention again.
so there is nothing more to be done.
I asked ACAT to advise my brother
I have explained to my children what this means.
I feel oddly at peace with this decision because I have had a long time to think about it. I dont need to "hold on to her" anymore.
she had slipped from my grasp some time ago.
how long will she survive?
i know the answer...its as proverbial as that piece of string.
kind regards to you all,
Jo
Martha H
11-15-2007, 08:49 AM
Zonk, I know how you feel. My Mom is in the same place, hospice care, no resuscitation or intervention allowed.
I too am at peace with this, and the only thing that troubles me is how incredibly long it is taking her to die. This may sound strage, but since last December - nearly a year - she has not been responding to her heart medications, and since July has not been processing food - slipping away, thin as a rail, and still 'alive.'
I wish you a peaceful heart through all this.
Love,
Martha
I too am at peace with this, and the only thing that troubles me is how incredibly long it is taking her to die. This may sound strage, but since last December - nearly a year - she has not been responding to her heart medications, and since July has not been processing food - slipping away, thin as a rail, and still 'alive.'
I wish you a peaceful heart through all this.
Love,
Martha
DGabriel10
11-15-2007, 05:25 PM
Zonk and Martha, my thoughts and prayers are with both of you and I hope you both find the strength and courage you need. I also want to thank you both for all you have said here. I know my turn is coming and will keep all of your words in my heart when it is my time to deal with the end. Thank you both!
Love, Deb
Love, Deb
LuvMyLilDoggie
11-17-2007, 10:08 PM
Jo, maybe you're at peace with this now because you no longer have to worry over these decisions alone anymore. You have a team of professionals to help you thru it. Whatever the reason, it's good to know that you're feeling at peace. When my turn comes to be making these difficult dicisions, I hope I'll be as strong as you and Martha. I know I'll get a lot out of what you two have shared with us when my dad nears his end.
May God Bless you both a thousand times over!
Love, Barb
May God Bless you both a thousand times over!
Love, Barb
Martha H
11-18-2007, 07:02 AM
Thank you for your kind remarks.
My sister and BIL are now in NY visiting Mom, I can't wait to find out how that went. As you know I am somewhat estranged from my sister because we did not agree on Mom's condition or care, and as the live in caregiver I was always getting critical advice from the one who never came to see Mom.
This rift is still present. I asked my brohter to tell my sister and BIL that they have an open invitation to come here any time and stay as long as they want They discussed it yesterday. My BIL said he does not want any company at his house (southern Ohio) and as for coming here, maybe they will, but it is really to far to drive (4 hours!) My brother said to me "I don't think we will ever see them again after Mom passes away." This is another casualty of Dementia.
God bless you all.
Love,
Martha
My sister and BIL are now in NY visiting Mom, I can't wait to find out how that went. As you know I am somewhat estranged from my sister because we did not agree on Mom's condition or care, and as the live in caregiver I was always getting critical advice from the one who never came to see Mom.
This rift is still present. I asked my brohter to tell my sister and BIL that they have an open invitation to come here any time and stay as long as they want They discussed it yesterday. My BIL said he does not want any company at his house (southern Ohio) and as for coming here, maybe they will, but it is really to far to drive (4 hours!) My brother said to me "I don't think we will ever see them again after Mom passes away." This is another casualty of Dementia.
God bless you all.
Love,
Martha
LuvMyLilDoggie
11-19-2007, 02:18 PM
Martha, as you know I had the same thing going on in my family. My sister who now has dad was in complete denial for a LONG time. She can't deny it anymore. My older sister has been in denial for years. She hasn't seen dad for more than 10 years because of a HUGE misunderstanding. But it's my younger sister and I who will have the most difficulty retaining a relationship after all that has happened. The financial garbage she's put my dad thru has really caused a great deal of resentment on my part. But all I can do is let it go. I can't hope for a relationship with my younger sister the way it used to be. Too much has happened. So I'll settle for calling her every once in a while so I can keep in touch with my neice and nephew whom I love dearly.
Yeah, it's sad that things have gotten so bad between my younger sister and I (the older one and younger one don't even acknowledge the others' existence). The older sister and I have a fairly good relationship. I have a little more understanding of her than probably the rest of the family does.
So when someone asks me about my younger sister, I say "I love her from a distance". My distance is both in miles and in guarding myself-being careful of what I say to her and not taking what she says to me to heart. I've lost faith and trust in her and that's created a bigger distance than the miles have.
So Martha, I'll say to you what a very dear and wise friend says to me.
It is what it is. Let it go and let God take care of it. Your negative feelings are only hurting you, no one else-least of all your sister. Give it to God and know that He'll do better with it than you.
My dear friend is BRUTALLY honest with me. She gets right to the point and FORCES me to think about things. She's my second mom and I know when we butt heads, she's going to come out the winner because 98% of the time, she's right. I love her dearly. She challenges me and I need that.
Love, Barb
Yeah, it's sad that things have gotten so bad between my younger sister and I (the older one and younger one don't even acknowledge the others' existence). The older sister and I have a fairly good relationship. I have a little more understanding of her than probably the rest of the family does.
So when someone asks me about my younger sister, I say "I love her from a distance". My distance is both in miles and in guarding myself-being careful of what I say to her and not taking what she says to me to heart. I've lost faith and trust in her and that's created a bigger distance than the miles have.
So Martha, I'll say to you what a very dear and wise friend says to me.
It is what it is. Let it go and let God take care of it. Your negative feelings are only hurting you, no one else-least of all your sister. Give it to God and know that He'll do better with it than you.
My dear friend is BRUTALLY honest with me. She gets right to the point and FORCES me to think about things. She's my second mom and I know when we butt heads, she's going to come out the winner because 98% of the time, she's right. I love her dearly. She challenges me and I need that.
Love, Barb
DGabriel10
11-19-2007, 07:32 PM
Good friends are a treasure Barb. I have a wonderful friend that has told me the same thing. You have to let go of your anger... not for those who have hurt you but to allow yourself to move forward without the burden of what they did.
I spent the weekend with my three sisters beginning the process of cleaning out Mom and Dad's house. The tension was heavy. Old resentments, expectations, misunderstandings, combined with each of us dealing with the situation differently until it exploded Sunday morning. We all yelled at each other a while, went our separate ways, and later I talked to all three of my sisters trying to make sense of the chaos and drama. I felt like I had been physically and emotionally beat up by the people and things I love the most. This is just the beginning. We have many more days of work and hard decisions to make. To make matters worse Mom wanted to go home and was very unhappy that she didn't get to go. I received a call from her. She said Dad was very unhappy and wanted to go back home. She thought maybe it was better to take him home. We CANNOT do that!!! But it was not the bitter icing I needed to add on top of the heavy weekend cake.
Yet I am thankful that so far I have some sort of relationship with all of my sisters. Some are strained and will never be what they could be but at least they talk to me.
What I do treasure are the friendships that have proved themselves invaluable. There are a couple of close friends that will let me babble for hours if necessary and always have great advice. And this board has been a God send!!!!!
Love, Deb
I spent the weekend with my three sisters beginning the process of cleaning out Mom and Dad's house. The tension was heavy. Old resentments, expectations, misunderstandings, combined with each of us dealing with the situation differently until it exploded Sunday morning. We all yelled at each other a while, went our separate ways, and later I talked to all three of my sisters trying to make sense of the chaos and drama. I felt like I had been physically and emotionally beat up by the people and things I love the most. This is just the beginning. We have many more days of work and hard decisions to make. To make matters worse Mom wanted to go home and was very unhappy that she didn't get to go. I received a call from her. She said Dad was very unhappy and wanted to go back home. She thought maybe it was better to take him home. We CANNOT do that!!! But it was not the bitter icing I needed to add on top of the heavy weekend cake.
Yet I am thankful that so far I have some sort of relationship with all of my sisters. Some are strained and will never be what they could be but at least they talk to me.
What I do treasure are the friendships that have proved themselves invaluable. There are a couple of close friends that will let me babble for hours if necessary and always have great advice. And this board has been a God send!!!!!
Love, Deb
zonk
04-02-2008, 09:37 AM
hi all, resurrecting my old post, I thought mum was dying...well she is, as we all are, but not today.
after the dramas in november, mum is now the same, cannot weight bear, cannot speak, on meds for constipation, on patches for pain, catheterised, (no urine output without catheter)
losing weight despite adequate oral intake
low urine output even with the catheter
I just want to thank you all for helping me through the initial panic.
now I know how you feel martha
kind regards,
Jo
after the dramas in november, mum is now the same, cannot weight bear, cannot speak, on meds for constipation, on patches for pain, catheterised, (no urine output without catheter)
losing weight despite adequate oral intake
low urine output even with the catheter
I just want to thank you all for helping me through the initial panic.
now I know how you feel martha
kind regards,
Jo
Martha H
04-02-2008, 10:31 AM
Dear Jo,
Alzheimers is a long slow dying. My Mom passed away on Dec 29, 2007, and to be really honst it was a great relief. The last year of her life she was in a process of shutting down. It took forever. Losing weight, no joy in food, not able to take part in all the activities she once loved, not interested in company or TV or radio, just becoming more and more remote and detached.
Finally an infection took her away, thankfully.
My Mom lived to be 99, but her active life ended when she was 96 and fell down the stairs and broke her hip. Then she had around 2 good years at the NH, enjoying the company, activites, food, visitors, phonecalls, garden and flowers and birds ... but all that ended one year before her death.
The last year was the hardest for all of us. We tried - went to see her, took her out in the wheelchair, my daughter even pushed her up hills in a nearby neighborhood off the grounds of the NH. She was quiet and seemed to enjoy it, but not with any enthusiasm. That was the last time we saw her alive. For my brother it was much worse. When the cold weather came his visits were in the darkish room she inhabited, she showed no interest, didn't want to talk, etc. By early December he was cutting back on his visits because he was an emotional wreck. When she passed away it ended not only her own suffering, but that of her loved ones as well.
Now I remember only good things about her and her life. The last year is fading from my memory. We all dream of her often. Recently my brother 'saw' her and Jesus looking down from Heaven, smiling.
This is a miserable time for you, but you will get through it. I am praying for you.
Love,
Martha
Alzheimers is a long slow dying. My Mom passed away on Dec 29, 2007, and to be really honst it was a great relief. The last year of her life she was in a process of shutting down. It took forever. Losing weight, no joy in food, not able to take part in all the activities she once loved, not interested in company or TV or radio, just becoming more and more remote and detached.
Finally an infection took her away, thankfully.
My Mom lived to be 99, but her active life ended when she was 96 and fell down the stairs and broke her hip. Then she had around 2 good years at the NH, enjoying the company, activites, food, visitors, phonecalls, garden and flowers and birds ... but all that ended one year before her death.
The last year was the hardest for all of us. We tried - went to see her, took her out in the wheelchair, my daughter even pushed her up hills in a nearby neighborhood off the grounds of the NH. She was quiet and seemed to enjoy it, but not with any enthusiasm. That was the last time we saw her alive. For my brother it was much worse. When the cold weather came his visits were in the darkish room she inhabited, she showed no interest, didn't want to talk, etc. By early December he was cutting back on his visits because he was an emotional wreck. When she passed away it ended not only her own suffering, but that of her loved ones as well.
Now I remember only good things about her and her life. The last year is fading from my memory. We all dream of her often. Recently my brother 'saw' her and Jesus looking down from Heaven, smiling.
This is a miserable time for you, but you will get through it. I am praying for you.
Love,
Martha
Babbie415
04-03-2008, 08:35 PM
My mother will be 83 on April 15th. She has lived a good life (30 years longer than my Dad). She had a stroke about 3 years ago. We kept her at home as long as we could then chose to put her in a NH where she grew up. That is about 2 hours from where one of my sisters and I live and 1 1/2 hours for another sister. Her baby sister still lived there and visited regularly. Her sister passed away 2 1/2 months ago very unexpectedly. We moved her to Jackson where my sister lived so we would have someone close, about 1 month ago. Last Thursday the VA Nursing home sent her to the ER. She
was totally dehydrated, pneumonia, bedsores, and a blood infection. We were told yesterday that she has end stage dementia and asked if we wanted a feeding tube. After a meeting of the daughters (2 in Meridian, 1 in Jackson and 1 in Japan) we quickly dediced NO... They told us that we could
send her back to the NH and that they would do "comfort care" until she passed. She can't walk, can't eat, only drink liquids no food what so ever. She seems lifeless most of the time and stares. Occassionally she mumbles and actually makes sense. One Doctor told us that she could last up to 6 months, but as little as 1. I'm not sure what my question is other than, is
there anything my sisters and I should do othere than pray, spend as much time with her and let her know how much we love her? Is there anyway to
know how long she will hold on? Will she be in pain? Will she suffer at all?
Thanks,
Lost.....
was totally dehydrated, pneumonia, bedsores, and a blood infection. We were told yesterday that she has end stage dementia and asked if we wanted a feeding tube. After a meeting of the daughters (2 in Meridian, 1 in Jackson and 1 in Japan) we quickly dediced NO... They told us that we could
send her back to the NH and that they would do "comfort care" until she passed. She can't walk, can't eat, only drink liquids no food what so ever. She seems lifeless most of the time and stares. Occassionally she mumbles and actually makes sense. One Doctor told us that she could last up to 6 months, but as little as 1. I'm not sure what my question is other than, is
there anything my sisters and I should do othere than pray, spend as much time with her and let her know how much we love her? Is there anyway to
know how long she will hold on? Will she be in pain? Will she suffer at all?
Thanks,
Lost.....
DeeDee7
04-03-2008, 11:28 PM
Babbie~I am so sorry about your Mother, it is so hard to see them take their final journey. When my Mom was like your Mother, we just made her as comfortable as we could. We swabbed her mouth when it was so dry, bathed her face when she had a fever, comfort measures only. I spent my time telling her how much I loved her, what a wonderful Mother she had been. That she could feel free to go to be with her loved ones who had passed before her.
We don't know if she could hear, or if she could comphrend any thing. It sure made us feel better. If you feel your Mother is in pain, there are several medications they can give her. Make sure you let the staff know if you think she needs medication for pain to ease her situtation.
My Mom lived less than two weeks when she was in the condition your Mother is in. You and your family will be in my thoughts and prayers. God Bless, Dee
We don't know if she could hear, or if she could comphrend any thing. It sure made us feel better. If you feel your Mother is in pain, there are several medications they can give her. Make sure you let the staff know if you think she needs medication for pain to ease her situtation.
My Mom lived less than two weeks when she was in the condition your Mother is in. You and your family will be in my thoughts and prayers. God Bless, Dee
Babbie415
04-04-2008, 10:26 AM
DeeDee
Thank you for your prayers.
I will tell my sisters about the pain meds and the swabs. I believe that will help as her mouth seems to be dry all the time.
Going to see her this weekend. My sister said that she is swelling bad today.
When you reach out like this it sure makes it seem like its a small world doesn't it.
Thanks again.
Thank you for your prayers.
I will tell my sisters about the pain meds and the swabs. I believe that will help as her mouth seems to be dry all the time.
Going to see her this weekend. My sister said that she is swelling bad today.
When you reach out like this it sure makes it seem like its a small world doesn't it.
Thanks again.
Martha H
04-04-2008, 12:03 PM
Babbie, My mother's final illness was very short. She got some kind of infection with fever on Dec 24 of this past year. She was apathetic and not able to speak, and completely lethargic. My brother and his wife went to the NH every day, where hospice nurses were with Mom 24 hours a day, doing the mouth swabbing and anything she needed to stay comfortable. She never gave any signs of being in pain. On Dec 27 they were surprised to find her sitting up in bed, eating something (she had not really eaten for weeks!) and talking! We all thought she had once again rallied. She died on Dec 29. The entire final illness took 5 days.
It is a terrible thing to go through, but after many years with dementia it was also a release for the rest of the family and for her too.
You are in my prayers as you go through this.
Love,
Martha
It is a terrible thing to go through, but after many years with dementia it was also a release for the rest of the family and for her too.
You are in my prayers as you go through this.
Love,
Martha
ibake&pray
04-04-2008, 12:14 PM
Babbie,
Im sooo sorry. My mom was on oxygen only with meds for pain. She was in a deep sleep like state. No water or food from Friday until she passed on Thusday evening. We swabbed her mouth out with the special swabbs they have. I had orders on her chart for comfort care only. That meant pain meds only. She was bathed and turned to prevent bed sores.
I sat with her from Tuesday until Thursday evening. My hubby and myself. She could hear...and hearing is the last of the senses to leave. I sang her favorite hymns and we talked to her. She had a steady stream of visits from the staff who loved her so greatly. We read the paper to her and poems she liked. Told her about the boys (my two sons). She finally passed when we said our thank yous to her. Her guardian angels were waiting in the corner of the room, waiting for her to decide to leave us. Death is not always horrid and ugly. But I do miss my Momma....
Im sooo sorry. My mom was on oxygen only with meds for pain. She was in a deep sleep like state. No water or food from Friday until she passed on Thusday evening. We swabbed her mouth out with the special swabbs they have. I had orders on her chart for comfort care only. That meant pain meds only. She was bathed and turned to prevent bed sores.
I sat with her from Tuesday until Thursday evening. My hubby and myself. She could hear...and hearing is the last of the senses to leave. I sang her favorite hymns and we talked to her. She had a steady stream of visits from the staff who loved her so greatly. We read the paper to her and poems she liked. Told her about the boys (my two sons). She finally passed when we said our thank yous to her. Her guardian angels were waiting in the corner of the room, waiting for her to decide to leave us. Death is not always horrid and ugly. But I do miss my Momma....
Babbie415
04-04-2008, 08:39 PM
Thank You All Soooo Much. Your Prayers Are Greatly Appreciated By All Of Us.
Babbie415
04-06-2008, 04:22 PM
QUESTION. They say Mom is swelling. her arms and legs and stomach. What would this be from?
Martha H
04-06-2008, 04:45 PM
Edema is swelling caused by retention of water, which should be going out through the kidneys --- but not if the kidneys are shutting down or otherwise not working right. Diuretics, "water pills," can help get the excess water out, but if the kidneys are shutting down it is a bad sign. The doctor should be able to explain just what the cause of the swelling is.
Love,
Martha
Love,
Martha
Babbie415
04-06-2008, 10:57 PM
thank you. I will ask tomorrow. Atleast I will know what they (Doctors) are saying. They are a little vague at times.
BeenThere15
04-30-2008, 10:04 PM
Dear Zonk -
Been there - and took off the restraints myself. I slept in a chair in hospital to hold Mom's hand rather than watch her tied to bed for an IV. I know the horror of finding a parent that way.
Keep in mind that eventually, veins won't allow IVs to remain. I don't know the duration time for central line but I think that requires surgery. PEG tube is not something you have to stay attached to. Many have "bolus" feeding (pour a container in and close the tube). Or if doctor requires continues feed, it can still be disconnected, tucked inside clothing, on and off, depending - so patient can still be ambulatory. You have to research everything.
Been there - and took off the restraints myself. I slept in a chair in hospital to hold Mom's hand rather than watch her tied to bed for an IV. I know the horror of finding a parent that way.
Keep in mind that eventually, veins won't allow IVs to remain. I don't know the duration time for central line but I think that requires surgery. PEG tube is not something you have to stay attached to. Many have "bolus" feeding (pour a container in and close the tube). Or if doctor requires continues feed, it can still be disconnected, tucked inside clothing, on and off, depending - so patient can still be ambulatory. You have to research everything.