I feel that once an addict always an addict.I hope that somebody comes away from this forum with full success but in all reality we know what the statistics are. My feelings on tapering are that if your trying to taper then your not ready to quit.I noticed many people who were active in this forum are not anymore.We all know why.Share your worries about addiction with a certified doctor,not some stranger who has the same problem as you.Worry about your own addiction not somebody elses.

Everybody is entitled to his/her own opinion.

Thanks, michelle

I feel that once an addict always an addict.I hope that somebody comes away from this forum with full success but in all reality we know what the statistics are. My feelings on tapering are that if your trying to taper then your not ready to quit.I noticed many people who were active in this forum are not anymore.We all know why.Share your worries about addiction with a certified doctor,not some stranger who has the same problem as you.Worry about your own addiction not somebody elses.

Hey Lisaboston:
Yes, once an addict always an addict is true. Because we never stop being "addicts" even when we're clean. We're just "recovering addicts" because we'll always have the make-up of an addict for life.
But I don't agree with you on "if you are trying to taper than your not ready to quit" . Because it is sometimes the safest way to come off a drug. Sometimes, going CT off something can be very dangerous and tapering is the doctor suggested way to go. And I do believe that sharing our thoughts with an Addiction Specialist doc. is good, but I also believe that it doesn't hurt anything to talk via email to others going thru the same thing. It's basically the same as going to a NA/AA meeting. We come on here to get ideas and hope. Hear from others that have come off drugs successfully and find strength through their strength. So I have to disagree about that.
And knowing someone elses trials doesn't necessarily make us "worry" about others problems, but we can keep them in our prayers if we see just to.
I read that your trying to come off Tramadol........how is your taper going?
If you've had a seizure before on them, then I would think that tapering would be a lot less stress on your body then going CT. That's just my thoughts. Take care.

Hello Lisa

Not in anger, but in vehement protest, I take exception to some of the words you have written. I am not angry because I have no idea where you come from in your own issues or life. But I am vehement because I do know where I am coming from.

I was never as commited to anything more than the two tapers I accomplished over the course of an entire year. I was sucessful in coming off both Oxycodone and then Xanax... both powerfully addictive drugs. And addicted to them I was. I crossed a line of legitimate use into misuse, abuse and addiction. And I openly shared my problem with certified doctors, social workers, family, friends and this board and the folks on it. I received unbelievable support, caring and understanding here. In your logic, not seeking out other addicts for support and wisdom and help would also totally negate the entire premise of organizations like AA and NA, where many, many people find the strenghth finally to not only get clean, but to move forward into recovery and a happy, restored life.

MANY have found this board an invaluable tool to reach recovery. Many have learned from it that our recovery success often depends on a number of resources. A doctor's job is to help us through detox and withdrawal... this board also helps with that, but additionally is a continuing resource to stay in recovery.

Some who are no longer active daily on the board may well have fallen. How sad. However, many who were active no longer are because they have moved on in life. They have not fallen... they have found life in recovery is full and busy with the normal things of life. Then there are those like me... "semi-active," who have found recovery, are living a restored life and still stay in touch because we do care about other's addictions. We post often to offer hope because we are now so fully aware, and grateful, that the hope does exist to pull out of the tormenting throes of addiction. I care because those before me cared about me. They were all a part of an ongoing circle of caring. I also want to be a part of that caring circle.

And as far as tapering... what does it matter what pathway we follow as we strive for recovery???? WHAT does it matter???? It is the GOAL that is most important, not someone else's pre-conceived ideal of the perfect path there. I resent greatly the words that anyone who tapers is not ready to quit. It is an ill-conceived, uneducated idea with absoltley no basis. Some who attempt tapering may not always be successful, but it is incorrect, totally incorrect, that those who choose tapering are not really ready to give up drugs.

Detox, withdrawal and recovery are not exact sciences. There are no real absolute truths in the process of going through these things except for the truth that going through them can lead to a fully restored life. And the only 'percentages' that I accepted as truth in my own journey were 50%-50%.... either I lived and made it or died trying.

Addiction, and the way to recovery,Lisa, is no more black and white than any other life issue. I will continue to be an advocate of hope, an advocate of th right to individual choice in our plans, and a believer in addicts helping addicts.

I don't know where you sit in your own addiction issues. In your history I read that tramadol was an issue for you. Have you found your way to recovery and a restored life? Perhaps you can share your story so others may benfit by it.

I understand that you had a purpose to your thread... we all have a purpose. However, I am to going to say it like I am feeling it right now... the title of your thread "I mean well: has certainly not proven to do me much good this morning.

reach

YA --what reach said! This is the first step and YOU MUST WANT TO QUIT. You are very right in that this board will not fix anyone. I am a perfect example of that. I used this board and this board only. Got clean, then relapased after a few weeks, months etc. YOu have to use this board as a tool and learn that there are many other tools needed to finish the job

O

Lisa,

I would like to agree, completely, with reach.

First of all, if this board proved to you, that it was not of help, then how can you assume it would not help everyone??? There were MANY times that I felt a want to relapse, came to this board, read some stories or wrote my own, and did NOT take those pills. I've found this board to be of UPMOST help when I needed it the most. I also go to NA meetings, have two addiction doctors, and a very supportive husband, however it was THIS BOARD that helped me NOT take those pills. THIS BOARD...got that?

Second, how can you "mean well" if you're throwing judgement around? Answer that for me please. You mean well? "Once an addict is always an addict" - don't you think we know that by now? You're right - an addict will always have it in the back of their heads - whether they hear about their 'drug of choice' or are in a position to be in front of that drug. For whatever reason, we (addicts) will always have to revert back to our recovery and what we went through in order NOT to relapse. There is one particular story that I keep going back to - when I'm having a bad day.

Third and most importantly - Tapering...

I've been tapering now for over two months. My taper is going very well. I am PROUD of myself and do not think I am a failure because I didn't quit cold turkey. In fact, I reluctantly took my doctors advice (THREE doctors) and did the taper (very slowly) instead of cold turkey. Does that make me a coward? No, it makes me a great researcher!! Studies have shown that there are good and bad reasons to go cold turkey. I chose the easier route on the advice of three professionals.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, however sometimes the best thing to do is observe, bite your tongue, and move on. I love this board. Without it, I'd be worse off, and I know that for certain. One of my addiction doctors recommended this to me, and it was the best advice I've ever been given.

I hope you're doing ok, I really do, and I hope you find the help (from this board) that I did.

Thank you to everyone who has given me encouragement or suggestions regarding my situation - it has been the best thus far :)

Sincerely,
emsmom

Hey Reach, O and EMS Mom,
Thanks for making a statement. You could not have said it better! I went cold turkey because I refused to let anyone know of my problem. It was most unpleasant but I have gone to this board more times than I could ever count for your words of wisdom and emotional support. I have a way to go on the emotional end and still find this board and your posts a comfort.
Thanks guys!
JB

Yeah, I think almost anyone that has a reply for you is going to take exception and disagree. We are all trying here, everyone in their own ways. Suboxone is a tapering drug, that's all there is to it. It's following DOCTOR'S advice...who I think might know a little more about it than you. We don't need to hear negative things on here, we come here for the positive. And the hope as Reach so eloquently put it.. Yes, I was discouraged when I heard the relapse rate. But you know what? That doesn't mean that I can't do it and never look back. I HAVE to believe that. Otherwise, what's the point?

Yeah, I think almost anyone that has a reply for you is going to take exception and disagree. We are all trying here, everyone in their own ways. Suboxone is a tapering drug, that's all there is to it. It's following DOCTOR'S advice...who I think might know a little more about it than you. We don't need to hear negative things on here, we come here for the positive. And the hope as Reach so eloquently put it.. Yes, I was discouraged when I heard the relapse rate. But you know what? That doesn't mean that I can't do it and never look back. I HAVE to believe that. Otherwise, what's the point?

Sorry,I was feeling very down and negative when I sent this.I apologize to all I have offended.I am taking my experiences and my failures and blaming everybody else. lisa

We would be glad to help, if nothing else but to listen.. that's what we're here for!!

Hi LIsa - Don't beat up on yourself to much. I'm glad you reread what you wrote and apologized, not because there was an offense, but rather you now have a better state of mind. Funny how this all works, we take a week two or three to become addicted then spend the rest of our lives paying for it... who knew? If you need to talk just start a new post, this forum has got to be one of the most forgiving places on earth!!!

we will forgive but we will not forget. maybe maybe not.talk to us lisa and help us to heal.good luck-spark

what??? ---Lisa --apology accepted. thanks for realizing that the words were a little hard. We are all here for the same reason. Listen to us. There are SOME really smart people on here.

O

Hello Lisa

It is a new day, a new day to begin the efforts of living again. yesterday, I reread and played over in my mind many times, the words of eveyone on this thread. From you:

Sorry,I was feeling very down and negative when I sent this.I apologize to all I have offended.I am taking my experiences and my failures and blaming everybody else. lisa

Those words helped me to understand where you were with your initial post here. I appreciate those words greatly.

FullO's and Spark's words also stood out to me:

[Lisa --apology accepted. thanks for realizing that the words were a little hard. We are all here for the same reason.

"talk to us lisa and help us to heal.

Those words helped me to appreciate more fully where we all strive to be on this board.... empathetic, caring, wanting to help others as we help ourselves in our adddictions. Of course the apology is accepted and I appreciate it being given. We all screw up sometimes and post in reaction, not reflection and I so totally incluse myself in this. When I posted to you here, I wanted others to agree with me, stand behind me in my vehemence of appreciating hope and success. I am sure you felt the same when you posted in your despair and wanted some solidarity in your misery of feeling lost. A lot of posts were made with a lot of emotion included. I think that is good because addiction IS a very emotional issue... most life issues are I guess.

Lisa, I believe you are a pretty gutsy young woman. You stepped back into a temporary pack of Mama Bears defending the board and offered an apology. When I was in the midst of tapering, I would have cried and hidden from eveyone here for days! There are times when I am corrected by the Moderators. During tapering, I was so taken aback, so hurt, so emotional when that happened that I couldn't make myself write to anyone. I would sit here and cry because I felt so hurt. Now, in recovery, I understand that corrections are merely just that... corrections. I no longer take them as a personal attack because I am emotionally healthy again. And I think the guts you took to respond to angry friends on the board are the same guts that are going to lead you to success in getting off the Tramadol. And the same circle of arms that have been stretched out to you are going to be continued to be stretched out to you if you will allow it.

Addiction is so lonely and isolating. Boy, who on this board does not recognize that!!??!! What many of us have discovered, though, that looking that addiction square in the face and deciding to get proactive in beating it, brings us slowly the to the many tools that can help us... one of the best tools that I found was contact with the people here. And my lonliness and isolation began to disappear. Suddenly I was in the midst of people willing to be my friends. I began to reach out more and more and the lonliness, the isolated feelings began to disappear. I started to gain confidence and courage here that I was slowly able to put into action in my real life. I stopped isolating myself abnd because of that, I began to feel less lonely and alone in dealing with the addiction. And I began to heal, Lisa. Heal from all the physical, emotional and spiritual baggage that addiction loves to travels with when we let it be a part of our journey in life.

Lisa, just as I waited to see if you would respond to my other post here, I am waiting to see if you will respond again. I really, really hope so. Every single person who responded here has stretched out a bit because your words had an impact. Please let our words continue to have an impact on you and know that we all care about you and want to be a part of your own getting well again. It is so possible, it is so reachable a goal.

Hugs
reach

Hello Lisa

It is a new day, a new day to begin the efforts of living again. yesterday, I reread and played over in my mind many times, the words of eveyone on this thread. From you:

Sorry,I was feeling very down and negative when I sent this.I apologize to all I have offended.I am taking my experiences and my failures and blaming everybody else. lisa

Those words helped me to understand where you were with your initial post here. I appreciate those words greatly.

FullO's and Spark's words also stood out to me:

[Lisa --apology accepted. thanks for realizing that the words were a little hard. We are all here for the same reason.

"talk to us lisa and help us to heal.

Those words helped me to appreciate more fully where we all strive to be on this board.... empathetic, caring, wanting to help others as we help ourselves in our adddictions. Of course the apology is accepted and I appreciate it being given. We all screw up sometimes and post in reaction, not reflection and I so totally incluse myself in this. When I posted to you here, I wanted others to agree with me, stand behind me in my vehemence of appreciating hope and success. I am sure you felt the same when you posted in your despair and wanted some solidarity in your misery of feeling lost. A lot of posts were made with a lot of emotion included. I think that is good because addiction IS a very emotional issue... most life issues are I guess.

Lisa, I believe you are a pretty gutsy young woman. You stepped back into a temporary pack of Mama Bears defending the board and offered an apology. When I was in the midst of tapering, I would have cried and hidden from eveyone here for days! There are times when I am corrected by the Moderators. During tapering, I was so taken aback, so hurt, so emotional when that happened that I couldn't make myself write to anyone. I would sit here and cry because I felt so hurt. Now, in recovery, I understand that corrections are merely just that... corrections. I no longer take them as a personal attack because I am emotionally healthy again. And I think the guts you took to respond to angry friends on the board are the same guts that are going to lead you to success in getting off the Tramadol. And the same circle of arms that have been stretched out to you are going to be continued to be stretched out to you if you will allow it.

Addiction is so lonely and isolating. Boy, who on this board does not recognize that!!??!! What many of us have discovered, though, that looking that addiction square in the face and deciding to get proactive in beating it, brings us slowly the to the many tools that can help us... one of the best tools that I found was contact with the people here. And my lonliness and isolation began to disappear. Suddenly I was in the midst of people willing to be my friends. I began to reach out more and more and the lonliness, the isolated feelings began to disappear. I started to gain confidence and courage here that I was slowly able to put into action in my real life. I stopped isolating myself abnd because of that, I began to feel less lonely and alone in dealing with the addiction. And I began to heal, Lisa. Heal from all the physical, emotional and spiritual baggage that addiction loves to travels with when we let it be a part of our journey in life.

Lisa, just as I waited to see if you would respond to my other post here, I am waiting to see if you will respond again. I really, really hope so. Every single person who responded here has stretched out a bit because your words had an impact. Please let our words continue to have an impact on you and know that we all care about you and want to be a part of your own getting well again. It is so possible, it is so reachable a goal.

Hugs
reach

Hello Lisa

It is a new day, a new day to begin the efforts of living again. yesterday, I reread and played over in my mind many times, the words of eveyone on this thread. From you:

Sorry,I was feeling very down and negative when I sent this.I apologize to all I have offended.I am taking my experiences and my failures and blaming everybody else. lisa

Those words helped me to understand where you were with your initial post here. I appreciate those words greatly.

FullO's and Spark's words also stood out to me:I did it again!I was not very nice to fullcircle.I am saying things to everybody else and I should be saying them to myself.I am in major denial. I am taking up to 35 tramadol a day and I think it has effected my brain.

[Lisa --apology accepted. thanks for realizing that the words were a little hard. We are all here for the same reason.

"talk to us lisa and help us to heal.

Those words helped me to appreciate more fully where we all strive to be on this board.... empathetic, caring, wanting to help others as we help ourselves in our adddictions. Of course the apology is accepted and I appreciate it being given. We all screw up sometimes and post in reaction, not reflection and I so totally incluse myself in this. When I posted to you here, I wanted others to agree with me, stand behind me in my vehemence of appreciating hope and success. I am sure you felt the same when you posted in your despair and wanted some solidarity in your misery of feeling lost. A lot of posts were made with a lot of emotion included. I think that is good because addiction IS a very emotional issue... most life issues are I guess.

Lisa, I believe you are a pretty gutsy young woman. You stepped back into a temporary pack of Mama Bears defending the board and offered an apology. When I was in the midst of tapering, I would have cried and hidden from eveyone here for days! There are times when I am corrected by the Moderators. During tapering, I was so taken aback, so hurt, so emotional when that happened that I couldn't make myself write to anyone. I would sit here and cry because I felt so hurt. Now, in recovery, I understand that corrections are merely just that... corrections. I no longer take them as a personal attack because I am emotionally healthy again. And I think the guts you took to respond to angry friends on the board are the same guts that are going to lead you to success in getting off the Tramadol. And the same circle of arms that have been stretched out to you are going to be continued to be stretched out to you if you will allow it.

Addiction is so lonely and isolating. Boy, who on this board does not recognize that!!??!! What many of us have discovered, though, that looking that addiction square in the face and deciding to get proactive in beating it, brings us slowly the to the many tools that can help us... one of the best tools that I found was contact with the people here. And my lonliness and isolation began to disappear. Suddenly I was in the midst of people willing to be my friends. I began to reach out more and more and the lonliness, the isolated feelings began to disappear. I started to gain confidence and courage here that I was slowly able to put into action in my real life. I stopped isolating myself abnd because of that, I began to feel less lonely and alone in dealing with the addiction. And I began to heal, Lisa. Heal from all the physical, emotional and spiritual baggage that addiction loves to travels with when we let it be a part of our journey in life.

Lisa, just as I waited to see if you would respond to my other post here, I am waiting to see if you will respond again. I really, really hope so. Every single person who responded here has stretched out a bit because your words had an impact. Please let our words continue to have an impact on you and know that we all care about you and want to be a part of your own getting well again. It is so possible, it is so reachable a goal.

Hugs
reach

thank you so much.I was not very positive with full circle today.I am picking on everbody because I am in denial.I am taking up to fourty tramadol a day and cannot seem to stop.I don't want to be the board bully so I will join the forum again when I can deal with myself

Lisa,

Thank you for apologizing. I too, was in denial at one point, and I also lashed out at the wrong people - not on this board, but my friends and family...

If you ever need to vent, or write out your frustrations, we're here to help. You were right - this board can not fix anyone, but there are some really wonderful people here with first hand knowledge and useful tips, that I've come to depend on those people - and it does "help" :)

Good luck Lisa, and all the best :)

Hugs,
emsmom

Lisa (I feel like I am talking to myself LOL),

Don't leave...I think now is the time when you need encouragement from people the most!!! I have just gotten past the physical part of my WD and headed into the emotional part like a whirlwind...I know the feelings of self loathing and disgust...it's part of the territory and, I am pretty sure, we have all been-there-done-that and can totally relate!!!

Please don't beat yourself up over it...people may have initially taken offense, but ya know what, they understand when they take a step back (or realize where the comment is coming from). It's all ok...you can speak your mind and I don't consider that "being a bully". Don't walk away now...it's just a set-back and your feeling guilty...but it will pass when you're feeling strong again. And I have no doubt you will...stay, and talk it out, k?

Lisa

Hey Lisa,

I agree with Lisa (4evaN6) - without pressure, please stay :) If you must go, then come back when you're feeling better, but please know that you're always welcome here. I've come to depend on this board, and have not had anything but good come out of it.

Hoping to hear from you, if not, good luck to you and best wishes :)

Sincerely,
emsmom