builder
12-02-2007, 11:17 AM
I had a neuroligist tell me the trigger points are a bunch of nonsense. Some doctor did biopsies on the tissue from several trigger points on a patient who had a Fibro flareup and found nothing. No evidence of inflammation or any other abnormalities. He also said what if you get a doctor who presses harder on these pressure points than another doctor? Press hard enough on any part of the body and it will hurt. I have severe Fibro and I never have found my so called pressure points to be any indicator of any kind or do they hurt more or less when I get a flare up.
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1sunny1
12-02-2007, 12:26 PM
Hi RSTARRE, I believe you are right. I have fibromyalgia pretty bad and I don't have most of the so called trigger points, I have a couple in my shoulders and neck. Mostly I just have overall pain, the worst is my neck and shoulders that cause headaches. Lately I am getting pain in my right knee. I was getting the burning sensation in my feet, but since taking Lyrica and Cymbalta, that has gone away. I can barely walk when I get up in the mornings, can hardly make it down the stairs, but that goes away after about an hour. Anyway, before I go on about my problems, let me get back to the original topic, I think we are all different and some may have trigger points, and yes, if you press very hard on some it will hurt, but not all of us have trigger points and have fibro pretty bad.
Sunny
Sunny
kirstee
12-02-2007, 07:38 PM
Trigger point injections are helpful. Ignore your neurologist - he's not the cat's meow for fibro sufferers.
Blessings,
Kirstee
Blessings,
Kirstee
HipsterDoofus
12-02-2007, 10:21 PM
Don't confuse tender points and trigger points. They are not the same thing.
kdel
12-03-2007, 07:10 AM
Well I have them and you don't have to press hard at all to send me into extreme pain, So I'm going with NO they are not nonsense at all.
rosebuddy
12-03-2007, 01:33 PM
ofcourse they are for real. Get a book or look up information on line. It is not fibromyalgia. Trigger points are caused by myofascial pain syndrome or chronic myofascial pain and this a chronic condition, meaning that it never goes away completely. Many people with fibromyalgia have cmp. If you have untreated trigger points, they will eventually form chains down your body as one muscle covers for another. It is a muscle that won't release on it's own.
As someone else already said, tender points are a fibromyalgia symptom and the tender point exam is used as way to diagnose fibromyalgia. I personally had 11 on my first exam. I cannot find them on my own except for around my collerbone.
I recommend the book, "Fibromyalgia and Chronic Myofascial Pain, A Survival Manual" by Devin Starlanyl. It covers everything about both conditions and also fibromyalgia coexisting conditions, mind body connection, disability issues, and a whole chapter on fibro fog. I hope you check it out. You really need to be knowledgable about your illness so that you are able to manage your healthcare and be your own advocate.
Good luck.
As someone else already said, tender points are a fibromyalgia symptom and the tender point exam is used as way to diagnose fibromyalgia. I personally had 11 on my first exam. I cannot find them on my own except for around my collerbone.
I recommend the book, "Fibromyalgia and Chronic Myofascial Pain, A Survival Manual" by Devin Starlanyl. It covers everything about both conditions and also fibromyalgia coexisting conditions, mind body connection, disability issues, and a whole chapter on fibro fog. I hope you check it out. You really need to be knowledgable about your illness so that you are able to manage your healthcare and be your own advocate.
Good luck.
Ishla
12-05-2007, 02:23 PM
I found out the hard way that I do indeed have some of these trigger points. I tried to find some of them a while back and did manage to locate the ones on the inside of my elbows.. knew instantly when I did find it!! Wow, very tender.. but what really bothered me most about it was that for nearly two days afterwards, my whole arm ached something awful. Wanted to see if that was just a coincidence, so I located the one on my knee.. same reaction. I will leave it to the doc I see in April, and hope I've got a good supply of pain pills when I get that nasty exam. Are they real? Well I sure think so!:D
albertasaurus
12-16-2007, 01:42 AM
I believe trigger points are quite real. I also do not think there is any difference between a myofascial trigger point and a FM tender point. The biopsies mentioned by the neurologist were likely only looking for pathological conditions of the muscle. However, I believe much of the confusion will eventually go away when researchers focus more on the skin as the location of tender and trigger points. There has been a good number of repeatable findings in recent research of microcircular abnormalities and unusual neural behaviour in the skin at these sore spots. Further, if one has enough of these sore spots, he will soon realize that they occur as well in places where there are plainly no muscles. Finally, all manual therapies designed to treat the muscles in fact more directly treat the skin. Bad muscle behaviour is only a reaction to the errant processes in the overlying skin. We should ask ourselves why we assume the pain is in muscles when we palpatate a spot. Skin feels everything, muscles feel almost nothing.
hippydave
12-16-2007, 03:32 PM
from my personal experience, they're very real. why else would pressing on a lump at my knee or hip produce pain and electrical sensations right down my leg to the top of my foot? and why would continuing to massage that lump cause these sensations to gradually reduce, and the muscles in between to be left more relaxed than they were before i started? if your neurologist has any alternative explanations (other than it all being in my head ;) ) please let me know!
AnnD
12-16-2007, 04:11 PM
Remember this diagnosis is a fairly new one and I'm not so sure they have it all figured out yet. I believe there are different levels for different people and if you have ever looked at all the symptoms that could be involved you might as well throw in the kitchen sink. Then you have half the physicians out there that absolutely do not believe this is a true diagnosis however, they also can't explain the symptoms under any other diagnosis. I have some symptoms but not all I just know my body hurts 24/7 so I take my Ultram and get on with my day and try not to dwell on it. It doesn't stop all the pain but makes doing stuff tolerable.
Glojer
12-17-2007, 12:03 AM
My personal opinion, tender points are real and so are trigger points. I have all the tender points and I am sure the knots in some of my muscles would be considered trigger points. About this muscle biopsy thing. Here in St. Louis we have one of the worlds leading pathologists for muscle tissue at Washington U. School of Medicine. My husband was very ill with what they suspected but could not prove was a rare muscle disease and the only way to finally get answers was to do major surgery to take a piece of muscle out of his shoulder and have the leading muscle guy check it out. It took months to get an answer and by then his disease had progressed enough they didn't need the biopsy which came back conclusive ENOUGH. In other words muscle biopsies are not the end all to be all. The trauma of surgery to his body and the almost 3in scar was not worth what they found out.
This is just my opinion of course and I'm the one with fibro not the nuerologist.
Glojer
This is just my opinion of course and I'm the one with fibro not the nuerologist.
Glojer
rosebuddy
12-18-2007, 09:15 AM
To all the newly diagnosed and uninformed: Tender points and trigger points are not the same thing.
It is so important to understand this syndrome of conditions that we call fms or fibromyalgia syndrome. And to also understand what chronic myofascial pain (CMP) also called myofascial pain syndrome. Tender points are a symptom of fms. Trigger points are a very real symptom of cmp. it is what cmp is all about.
If you don't understand these syndromes, I urge you to read "Fibromyalgia and Chronic Myofascial Pain, A survival manual." by Devin Starlanyl. Order it from your library if you can't buy it. And read other books too. The internet is full of misinformation and money making schemes. You owe it to yourself to be educated.
<<<removed>>>>. So if you are newly diagnosed, keep an open mind and learn as much as you can. Then you can help others, which is why we are on this planet in the first place. You cannot give away what you don't have.
With much love,
A_Starr
It is so important to understand this syndrome of conditions that we call fms or fibromyalgia syndrome. And to also understand what chronic myofascial pain (CMP) also called myofascial pain syndrome. Tender points are a symptom of fms. Trigger points are a very real symptom of cmp. it is what cmp is all about.
If you don't understand these syndromes, I urge you to read "Fibromyalgia and Chronic Myofascial Pain, A survival manual." by Devin Starlanyl. Order it from your library if you can't buy it. And read other books too. The internet is full of misinformation and money making schemes. You owe it to yourself to be educated.
<<<removed>>>>. So if you are newly diagnosed, keep an open mind and learn as much as you can. Then you can help others, which is why we are on this planet in the first place. You cannot give away what you don't have.
With much love,
A_Starr
albertasaurus
12-20-2007, 03:36 AM
With respect, Ms. Starlanyl is the primary mover in the notion of a difference between trigger points and tender points. The difference is mostly of a religious nature. There is a multitude of doctors in the field who will argue that there is no substantive difference - and that CMP and FMS are just on different positions of the same disease spectrum. Let's also not forget that, although a good advocate for our condition, she is in the business of making money from it.
rosebuddy
12-20-2007, 11:41 AM
Trigger points and tender points are not the same thing.