HarleyGuy
12-06-2007, 11:59 AM
Hi everyone,
For the last year after back surgery(L4/L5 laminectomy) I have had pain in lower back at surgical site. (surgery 12-18-06)It has gotten steadily worse to the point I am unable to work. The pain is always there at least a 6 never better. The more I do the worse it gets. I do not have pain shooting into my legs as I did before surgery but my legs will hurt so bad I can't stand up. I had an emg 11-30-07 and it shows nerve compression. My PM Doc, Surgeon & EMG Doc all think I have re-herniated the disc or it has collapsed & that I will need a fusion or disc replacement surgery. I am having problems with W/C
Insurance approving myleogram since I was put at MMI back in August 07.
The problem is my pain meds are not helping me anymore.
Oxycodone 10/325 1 every night to sleep. (HA HA) & for Break-Thru pain
Norco 10/325 every 4-6 Hrs as needed.
Cymbalta 60mg. 1 @ bedtime.
Zanaflex Capsules 6mg. 1-2 @ bedtime.
Restoril 22.5 @ bedtime for sleep (HA HA)
The pain is so bad now that I can take all of them and still not sleep. This can go on for days until I get so tired I finally sleep. I take 1 norco and feel nothing, no relief. I am going thru them faster than I should. Taking more, just trying to get some relief. The oxy used to work, but now nothing. Even if I take two. What am I supposed to do. I can only take so much because of the tylenol. I do not want to fry my liver. I hate taking all this stuff in the first place but I am miserable. The pain is constant no matter what I do. At least before I had surgery the meds helped and I could get some relief.
My question is, are these the right meds or do I need something else. I have not seen my PM Doc in almost a month, I will see him today. Can I ask him to up the strength of the Oxy and Not the tylenol. Is it because I have been taking them since August of 2006 and I am just becoming tolerant of them. I do not know what to do anymore, I just am at the end of my rope. Any advice will greatly be appreciated.
Thank you so much,
Harley
For the last year after back surgery(L4/L5 laminectomy) I have had pain in lower back at surgical site. (surgery 12-18-06)It has gotten steadily worse to the point I am unable to work. The pain is always there at least a 6 never better. The more I do the worse it gets. I do not have pain shooting into my legs as I did before surgery but my legs will hurt so bad I can't stand up. I had an emg 11-30-07 and it shows nerve compression. My PM Doc, Surgeon & EMG Doc all think I have re-herniated the disc or it has collapsed & that I will need a fusion or disc replacement surgery. I am having problems with W/C
Insurance approving myleogram since I was put at MMI back in August 07.
The problem is my pain meds are not helping me anymore.
Oxycodone 10/325 1 every night to sleep. (HA HA) & for Break-Thru pain
Norco 10/325 every 4-6 Hrs as needed.
Cymbalta 60mg. 1 @ bedtime.
Zanaflex Capsules 6mg. 1-2 @ bedtime.
Restoril 22.5 @ bedtime for sleep (HA HA)
The pain is so bad now that I can take all of them and still not sleep. This can go on for days until I get so tired I finally sleep. I take 1 norco and feel nothing, no relief. I am going thru them faster than I should. Taking more, just trying to get some relief. The oxy used to work, but now nothing. Even if I take two. What am I supposed to do. I can only take so much because of the tylenol. I do not want to fry my liver. I hate taking all this stuff in the first place but I am miserable. The pain is constant no matter what I do. At least before I had surgery the meds helped and I could get some relief.
My question is, are these the right meds or do I need something else. I have not seen my PM Doc in almost a month, I will see him today. Can I ask him to up the strength of the Oxy and Not the tylenol. Is it because I have been taking them since August of 2006 and I am just becoming tolerant of them. I do not know what to do anymore, I just am at the end of my rope. Any advice will greatly be appreciated.
Thank you so much,
Harley
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Shoreline
12-06-2007, 01:36 PM
Hi Harley, Rather than asking for something specific, I think your better off just explaining to your doc what your situation is and askhim what can he do for you. If your in enough pain and can't work, anything he can offer that might possibly bring more relief sounds more sincere than I think I need more oxy and less tyleonol. As far as the leg pain gores, if you have a compressed nerve and need stability , no amount of pain med is going to relieve all your pain. A fusion may be what you need.
I undersatnd your dealing with comp and if you don't have a lawyer you may need to get one to have the case reopened. He can also help with getting the meylogram or a discogram done to prove there is something wrong and that there is treatment avaiable. The important thing is your willing to try anything and you get that across to your doc. That means a lot more than labeling your pain a 9 or 10. That willingness to try anything may get you a med increase and your PM doc involved in disputing the MMI BS. Some nurse at comp made that decsion based on lack of improvement, but if you have something impinging a nerve, your not going to improve untill your spine is stabalized.
Again, I know you have to play by comp rules, but it's time to get advesarial with comp if things aren't allready.
Goodluck, I was a comp laminectomey that turned into a 3 level fusion then a 6 level a few years after settling my case. Things didn't go bad untill I snapped the hardware from the first fusion. Unfortunately thsi set of hardware is falling apart too but they were able to decompress and relieve the nerve pain. My back is just a wreck and after 14 years of pain management I now have a pump implanted that gives me enough relief to work part time. Nothing touched the nerve pain but the pain meds help the back pain.
Good luck, David
I undersatnd your dealing with comp and if you don't have a lawyer you may need to get one to have the case reopened. He can also help with getting the meylogram or a discogram done to prove there is something wrong and that there is treatment avaiable. The important thing is your willing to try anything and you get that across to your doc. That means a lot more than labeling your pain a 9 or 10. That willingness to try anything may get you a med increase and your PM doc involved in disputing the MMI BS. Some nurse at comp made that decsion based on lack of improvement, but if you have something impinging a nerve, your not going to improve untill your spine is stabalized.
Again, I know you have to play by comp rules, but it's time to get advesarial with comp if things aren't allready.
Goodluck, I was a comp laminectomey that turned into a 3 level fusion then a 6 level a few years after settling my case. Things didn't go bad untill I snapped the hardware from the first fusion. Unfortunately thsi set of hardware is falling apart too but they were able to decompress and relieve the nerve pain. My back is just a wreck and after 14 years of pain management I now have a pump implanted that gives me enough relief to work part time. Nothing touched the nerve pain but the pain meds help the back pain.
Good luck, David
HarleyGuy
12-08-2007, 11:34 AM
Hi Shoreline,
Thank you for your reply and words of wisdom. Looks like you have been thru alot more than I have and for a lot longer. That which does not kill us only makes us stronger, right. After my last visit with the Doc on 12-6-07 due to w/c he only refilled my oxy 10/325 1 x 12 hours. They are really starting to *** me off. The report from the case review Doc states I don't need anything for meds and to start a taper off pain meds. No cymbalta for nerve pain, no zanaflex, no restoril. All of these run out in about 4 days now. He said even if he gave me a script, w/c won't pay for it. My emg shows there is something going on and now that they have proof, maybe they will pay for the test. I told my Doc that I was going to talk to a lawyer, but he advised against it saying that it would only make matters worse, slow everything down. He asked that I give him a week to see what he can do. I will. i just don't know how these insurance companys get away with this. They sent me to him saying he was the best. He is. Now they are saying what he needs for me is not neccessary. We will see. Like I say "hurry up & wait"!!!!
You take care, take it easy and thanks again. Hope you have a great weekend.
Harley
Thank you for your reply and words of wisdom. Looks like you have been thru alot more than I have and for a lot longer. That which does not kill us only makes us stronger, right. After my last visit with the Doc on 12-6-07 due to w/c he only refilled my oxy 10/325 1 x 12 hours. They are really starting to *** me off. The report from the case review Doc states I don't need anything for meds and to start a taper off pain meds. No cymbalta for nerve pain, no zanaflex, no restoril. All of these run out in about 4 days now. He said even if he gave me a script, w/c won't pay for it. My emg shows there is something going on and now that they have proof, maybe they will pay for the test. I told my Doc that I was going to talk to a lawyer, but he advised against it saying that it would only make matters worse, slow everything down. He asked that I give him a week to see what he can do. I will. i just don't know how these insurance companys get away with this. They sent me to him saying he was the best. He is. Now they are saying what he needs for me is not neccessary. We will see. Like I say "hurry up & wait"!!!!
You take care, take it easy and thanks again. Hope you have a great weekend.
Harley
butrfligirl28
12-09-2007, 11:11 AM
Harley,
So sorry you are dealing with this crap. I disagree with the doctor about hiring an attorney. I believe you need to at least consult one. I strongly feel like professionals need to comment on their expertise, not opinions. In his opinion you don't need a lawyer??? They are about to cut you off from you meds! You will have withdrawal and pain fom stopping all of those meds. The $$$ is important too, but believe me, it will be the last thing you will be worried about when you are suffering your regular pain, plus withdrawals.
Tell him that you need an advocate, badly. Your doctor should be able to handle that. It IS in his job description. :)
Hope things get better soon!
Amanda
So sorry you are dealing with this crap. I disagree with the doctor about hiring an attorney. I believe you need to at least consult one. I strongly feel like professionals need to comment on their expertise, not opinions. In his opinion you don't need a lawyer??? They are about to cut you off from you meds! You will have withdrawal and pain fom stopping all of those meds. The $$$ is important too, but believe me, it will be the last thing you will be worried about when you are suffering your regular pain, plus withdrawals.
Tell him that you need an advocate, badly. Your doctor should be able to handle that. It IS in his job description. :)
Hope things get better soon!
Amanda
paulo60
12-09-2007, 03:56 PM
Hi everyone,
For the last year after back surgery(L4/L5 laminectomy) I have had pain in lower back at surgical site. (surgery 12-18-06)It has gotten steadily worse to the point I am unable to work. The pain is always there at least a 6 never better. The more I do the worse it gets. I do not have pain shooting into my legs as I did before surgery but my legs will hurt so bad I can't stand up. I had an emg 11-30-07 and it shows nerve compression. My PM Doc, Surgeon & EMG Doc all think I have re-herniated the disc or it has collapsed & that I will need a fusion or disc replacement surgery. I am having problems with W/C
Insurance approving myleogram since I was put at MMI back in August 07.
The problem is my pain meds are not helping me anymore.
Oxycodone 10/325 1 every night to sleep. (HA HA) & for Break-Thru pain
Norco 10/325 every 4-6 Hrs as needed.
Cymbalta 60mg. 1 @ bedtime.
Zanaflex Capsules 6mg. 1-2 @ bedtime.
Restoril 22.5 @ bedtime for sleep (HA HA)
The pain is so bad now that I can take all of them and still not sleep. This can go on for days until I get so tired I finally sleep. I take 1 norco and feel nothing, no relief. I am going thru them faster than I should. Taking more, just trying to get some relief. The oxy used to work, but now nothing. Even if I take two. What am I supposed to do. I can only take so much because of the tylenol. I do not want to fry my liver. I hate taking all this stuff in the first place but I am miserable. The pain is constant no matter what I do. At least before I had surgery the meds helped and I could get some relief.
My question is, are these the right meds or do I need something else. I have not seen my PM Doc in almost a month, I will see him today. Can I ask him to up the strength of the Oxy and Not the tylenol. Is it because I have been taking them since August of 2006 and I am just becoming tolerant of them. I do not know what to do anymore, I just am at the end of my rope. Any advice will greatly be appreciated.
Thank you so much,
Harley
I am very sorry to hear this problem surface, as I have seen it before on other message boards. I spent about a year researching (part time;) the enzymes necessary to break down and metabolize various opioid medications. Not all people are alike, which is why some people are lactose intolerant and can't drink milk, while others can suffer anaphalactic shock and have a near death experience when given morphine or any similar drug for pain. Those are the truly unfortunates, particularly if they develop a chronic pain condition. If you have good insurance see if your primary doc will refer you to an endocrinologist or some other specialty where lab tests can be ordered to determine enzyme deficiency. I would check any internet site that offers drug interaction matching; my personal experience with Restoril was such that it was producing rebound depression about 14 hours or so after I took it, and basically countering the effects of the antidepressant at the time. When that spiked and depression became a much more pronounced issue, pain levels increased also. It's a complex problem, but please don't wait for it to resolve itself, and try to take action yourself. Best of luck to you...Paulo
For the last year after back surgery(L4/L5 laminectomy) I have had pain in lower back at surgical site. (surgery 12-18-06)It has gotten steadily worse to the point I am unable to work. The pain is always there at least a 6 never better. The more I do the worse it gets. I do not have pain shooting into my legs as I did before surgery but my legs will hurt so bad I can't stand up. I had an emg 11-30-07 and it shows nerve compression. My PM Doc, Surgeon & EMG Doc all think I have re-herniated the disc or it has collapsed & that I will need a fusion or disc replacement surgery. I am having problems with W/C
Insurance approving myleogram since I was put at MMI back in August 07.
The problem is my pain meds are not helping me anymore.
Oxycodone 10/325 1 every night to sleep. (HA HA) & for Break-Thru pain
Norco 10/325 every 4-6 Hrs as needed.
Cymbalta 60mg. 1 @ bedtime.
Zanaflex Capsules 6mg. 1-2 @ bedtime.
Restoril 22.5 @ bedtime for sleep (HA HA)
The pain is so bad now that I can take all of them and still not sleep. This can go on for days until I get so tired I finally sleep. I take 1 norco and feel nothing, no relief. I am going thru them faster than I should. Taking more, just trying to get some relief. The oxy used to work, but now nothing. Even if I take two. What am I supposed to do. I can only take so much because of the tylenol. I do not want to fry my liver. I hate taking all this stuff in the first place but I am miserable. The pain is constant no matter what I do. At least before I had surgery the meds helped and I could get some relief.
My question is, are these the right meds or do I need something else. I have not seen my PM Doc in almost a month, I will see him today. Can I ask him to up the strength of the Oxy and Not the tylenol. Is it because I have been taking them since August of 2006 and I am just becoming tolerant of them. I do not know what to do anymore, I just am at the end of my rope. Any advice will greatly be appreciated.
Thank you so much,
Harley
I am very sorry to hear this problem surface, as I have seen it before on other message boards. I spent about a year researching (part time;) the enzymes necessary to break down and metabolize various opioid medications. Not all people are alike, which is why some people are lactose intolerant and can't drink milk, while others can suffer anaphalactic shock and have a near death experience when given morphine or any similar drug for pain. Those are the truly unfortunates, particularly if they develop a chronic pain condition. If you have good insurance see if your primary doc will refer you to an endocrinologist or some other specialty where lab tests can be ordered to determine enzyme deficiency. I would check any internet site that offers drug interaction matching; my personal experience with Restoril was such that it was producing rebound depression about 14 hours or so after I took it, and basically countering the effects of the antidepressant at the time. When that spiked and depression became a much more pronounced issue, pain levels increased also. It's a complex problem, but please don't wait for it to resolve itself, and try to take action yourself. Best of luck to you...Paulo
Missy14
12-09-2007, 09:05 PM
Here's a thought - can you pay for a script yourself? If wc won't pay but you need the meds, why can't the doc write the script and you can pay for it yourself so that you can at least get some relief from your pain. I don't know wc rules well so perhaps this is a big no no. Just seems so unfair that you have to be so uncomfortable.
Hang in there........
Hang in there........
JoJo921
12-09-2007, 09:41 PM
Sorry to hear of your chronic pain harley guy, however I need to ask if you have a right with your wc case to find a new doc. I have the same thing as you do and my pain mgmt. doc provides me with:
oxycontin- 10mg 3x daily
roxicodone- 15 mg 4x daily for bt pain
It keeps me at about a five and Im ok with that. I hope you can find a doc that will fight against what wc says. My wife had a wc case several years ago and she had a doc who would not listen to a single suggestion they gave him unless my wife agreed with it.
oxycontin- 10mg 3x daily
roxicodone- 15 mg 4x daily for bt pain
It keeps me at about a five and Im ok with that. I hope you can find a doc that will fight against what wc says. My wife had a wc case several years ago and she had a doc who would not listen to a single suggestion they gave him unless my wife agreed with it.
HarleyGuy
12-10-2007, 11:33 AM
Hi everyone and thanks for your replies.
I really don't think I need another doctor at this point. He is trying everything he can to get what I need. I don't think it is against w/c rules for me to pay for it, but alot of these meds are expensive. Just the Cymbalta is $120.00 for 30 pills. He told me he would call me this week and I will wait till after I talk to him before talking to an attorney. One of my brothers has a back problem almost identical to mine. He hurt his back the weekend after thanksgiving last year deer hunting. They have no intention of doing surgery on him. They told him it would a last resort. He has had three esi's and helped some. He takes 20mg of oxycontin in the morning 40mg at night. He takes oxycodone 20/325 for breakthru pain, lyrica for nerve pain and flexeril for spasms. I have never been on anything that strong, not that I want to but at thanksgiving this year you would not know he had back problems by looking at him, me on the other hand, I walk in the door and everybody knows I am hurting. He told me as long as he stays like this he won't have surgery. I don't blame him one bit.
The meds he is on controls his pain so well he does anything he wants too. Granted he has a desk job, but after thanksgiving he went to the deer lease.
I have 5 brothers and 1 sister. Four of us have or have had back problems. I was beginning to think it was genetic or something. I am the oldest and have the most problems, maybe its just the age I don't know I am 47, he is 40. I guess the difference between the two of us is I am on w/c he is not when it comes to treatment. I am sorry this is long, I tried to answer your responses and end up writing a novel. I will keep you posted. I am trying to read up on these boards but sitting is painful. Thanks again for your help and take care.
Harley
I really don't think I need another doctor at this point. He is trying everything he can to get what I need. I don't think it is against w/c rules for me to pay for it, but alot of these meds are expensive. Just the Cymbalta is $120.00 for 30 pills. He told me he would call me this week and I will wait till after I talk to him before talking to an attorney. One of my brothers has a back problem almost identical to mine. He hurt his back the weekend after thanksgiving last year deer hunting. They have no intention of doing surgery on him. They told him it would a last resort. He has had three esi's and helped some. He takes 20mg of oxycontin in the morning 40mg at night. He takes oxycodone 20/325 for breakthru pain, lyrica for nerve pain and flexeril for spasms. I have never been on anything that strong, not that I want to but at thanksgiving this year you would not know he had back problems by looking at him, me on the other hand, I walk in the door and everybody knows I am hurting. He told me as long as he stays like this he won't have surgery. I don't blame him one bit.
The meds he is on controls his pain so well he does anything he wants too. Granted he has a desk job, but after thanksgiving he went to the deer lease.
I have 5 brothers and 1 sister. Four of us have or have had back problems. I was beginning to think it was genetic or something. I am the oldest and have the most problems, maybe its just the age I don't know I am 47, he is 40. I guess the difference between the two of us is I am on w/c he is not when it comes to treatment. I am sorry this is long, I tried to answer your responses and end up writing a novel. I will keep you posted. I am trying to read up on these boards but sitting is painful. Thanks again for your help and take care.
Harley