empire
06-02-2003, 08:56 AM
i have bp of 170/112, have been on numerous meds, beta blockers made me so depressed i ended up in psych wing for 2 weeks to get of thewm, calcium channel blockers make me very sick and alphas cause depression, am on diovan but no help, lost a kidney on 9/11 as i worked in nyc, allergic to sulfa and on antidepressants and shrink thanks bp meds will depress me to much, i am a viet nam vet so i am a bit uptight 24/7, any ideas will be greatly appreciated
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empire
06-16-2003, 01:30 PM
gee everyone, thanks for all the feedback
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zuzu8
06-16-2003, 01:55 PM
Hi empire- I'm so sorry to hear you lost a kidney...were you actually involved and injured during the WTC tragedy?
There are, as you know many different classes of BP meds. And as you have obviously discovered, many that you've tried have caused serious side effects for you. (And the beta blockers are notorious for causing depression!) However, as discouraging as this may be, don't give up trying to find one that won't trash you. I doubt there is a single person on this forum who hasn't had to change meds and/or dosage several (if not many) times before finding a regimen that controlled their BP properly without intolerable side effects. What is your physician suggesting now? Not all BP meds cause depression or make depression worse.
What is happening to you on Diovan? Is it simply not bringing your BP down or are you having side effects.?
zuzu xxx
There are, as you know many different classes of BP meds. And as you have obviously discovered, many that you've tried have caused serious side effects for you. (And the beta blockers are notorious for causing depression!) However, as discouraging as this may be, don't give up trying to find one that won't trash you. I doubt there is a single person on this forum who hasn't had to change meds and/or dosage several (if not many) times before finding a regimen that controlled their BP properly without intolerable side effects. What is your physician suggesting now? Not all BP meds cause depression or make depression worse.
What is happening to you on Diovan? Is it simply not bringing your BP down or are you having side effects.?
zuzu xxx
empire
06-16-2003, 05:21 PM
diovan is not doing anything to lower b. p. but md says it is helping my 1 kidney. yes i was there 9/11, was worst than viet nam, i did not work in the towewrs but near by, thank you zuzu, i have tried 27 meds, about all and some dont work, some==dep[ression and others seem to make me volmit, i am very confused and scared
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empire
06-16-2003, 05:23 PM
diovan is not doing anything to lower b. p. but md says it is helping my 1 kidney. yes i was there 9/11, was worst than viet nam, i did not work in the towewrs but near by, thank you zuzu, i have tried 27 meds, about all and some dont work, some==dep[ression and others seem to make me volmit, i am very confused and scared
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empire
06-16-2003, 05:23 PM
diovan is not doing anything to lower b. p. but md says it is helping my 1 kidney. yes i was there 9/11, was worst than viet nam, i did not work in the towewrs but near by, thank you zuzu, i have tried 27 meds, about all and some dont work, some==dep[ression and others seem to make me volmit, i am very confused and scared
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Elias Fernandez
06-17-2003, 01:13 PM
Hey I may not be even in the same ball park as you but I do undersand being scared...I know this is a pain but could you list ALL 27 medications you have been on and if any worked at all? One thing is that they were looking at a CCB because of the kidney issues...if you have problems with that the first place I would look is taking Magnesium as either a stand alone pill or as part of a multivitamn(sp?) Just make sure if it is a multi- that you are getting at least 100% of the RDA for Magnesium. Why? because this mineral is a NATURAL CCB and thus you should not feel ANY side effects. This may not help much but it is a start as MOST people are not getting enough Magnesium.
again tell what you have taken and what helped even if you got a side effect.
again tell what you have taken and what helped even if you got a side effect.
empire
06-17-2003, 11:25 PM
try to remember as many as i can..hydrochorothaizide, 15, years, no allergiuc to sulfa, aldomet, inderal,lopressor,catapress, minipress hyrin, capototen, vasotec,procardia slow release, cardizem sr, verapamil, plendil, mavic, cozar,hygroten, prinivil, altace, lasix,tenormin, monopril, sectral, trandate, latest failure was dyna circ, calcium channel meds make me ill, beta blockers make me very depressed, ACE or ok almost, cough i can handle but do not work same for diovan family there are more but forgot
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Elias Fernandez
06-18-2003, 05:12 PM
wow that is one long list!!!
okay I am just giveing you some thoughts on what I have been reading and what I have noticed but I am no docotor an dI am not give any medical advice---had to put in disclamer :) -----
First you said that ACE are okay and you can handle the cough. Did ACE's lower your BP? You mentioned capototen I assume you meant CAPOTEN which is the trade marek name for the generic captopril. Did that lower your BP and do you remember what your inital dossage was and what you finnaly ended up at?
okay more questions; you said hydrochorothaizide or HCTZ how much and did you get side effects did it lower your BP? I had problems with this one as my potassium level went out of wack causing heat beat to go to 120 beats per min.
because of the kiney issue I was thinking you are kinda like me and Captopril is working very well for me at low doses.
Be WARNED that alot of the anti-deprerssants interact with other medication and this could confuse you as to if the side effect is due to the BP meds or the combination of BP meds and the antidepressants.
If at all possible if you can get of the antidepressants FIRST and then work on a BP drug tjhat works you will be MUCH better off.
If you can answer the questions above I can tell you what I think may help out but again I am just sharing what I have read in medical journals as I did not think my doctor cared so I had to figure out what I needed rather than wait for them to play lab rat with me...in fact many of them do not even seem to read up on simple things like drug interactions or side effects (ecept for the short cheat sheet they carry) rather than the much longer list than you can find at the sites of people who actually make the drug...
let me know what you remember and I give you my thoughts for what they are worth but something even just talking about it helps as I was very scared and felt helpless for almost two years until I was able to help myself.
oh by the way my wife is in the Navy and her ship was called upon to help out at HYC during 9/11 so I know that it was really bad I hope you get better.
okay I am just giveing you some thoughts on what I have been reading and what I have noticed but I am no docotor an dI am not give any medical advice---had to put in disclamer :) -----
First you said that ACE are okay and you can handle the cough. Did ACE's lower your BP? You mentioned capototen I assume you meant CAPOTEN which is the trade marek name for the generic captopril. Did that lower your BP and do you remember what your inital dossage was and what you finnaly ended up at?
okay more questions; you said hydrochorothaizide or HCTZ how much and did you get side effects did it lower your BP? I had problems with this one as my potassium level went out of wack causing heat beat to go to 120 beats per min.
because of the kiney issue I was thinking you are kinda like me and Captopril is working very well for me at low doses.
Be WARNED that alot of the anti-deprerssants interact with other medication and this could confuse you as to if the side effect is due to the BP meds or the combination of BP meds and the antidepressants.
If at all possible if you can get of the antidepressants FIRST and then work on a BP drug tjhat works you will be MUCH better off.
If you can answer the questions above I can tell you what I think may help out but again I am just sharing what I have read in medical journals as I did not think my doctor cared so I had to figure out what I needed rather than wait for them to play lab rat with me...in fact many of them do not even seem to read up on simple things like drug interactions or side effects (ecept for the short cheat sheet they carry) rather than the much longer list than you can find at the sites of people who actually make the drug...
let me know what you remember and I give you my thoughts for what they are worth but something even just talking about it helps as I was very scared and felt helpless for almost two years until I was able to help myself.
oh by the way my wife is in the Navy and her ship was called upon to help out at HYC during 9/11 so I know that it was really bad I hope you get better.
Elias Fernandez
06-18-2003, 05:16 PM
post was long enough but if you could also list what antidepressants you are currently taking and the dossage.
empire
06-20-2003, 01:42 AM
currently taking parnate, mao inhibitor, lowers pressure some thank god. taking 20mgs, tid
zuzu8
06-20-2003, 03:23 PM
Hi empire-
Since Diovan (and the entire class of angiotensin 2 receptor blockers) are the LEAST likely to cause depression, it would be great if Diovan would work to lower your BP.
What dosage are you on? Are you on the maximum?
If Diovan doesn't do it, there's always the possibility of trying Benicar or another ARB since even though they're in the same class, sometimes a few molecules make all the difference. I know people who couldn't get good control on Diovan but found Benicar or other angiotensin 2's to work beautifully. Also there's a brand NEW addition to the ARBs called Teveten that is supposed to be very effective.
zuzu xx
[This message has been edited by zuzu8 (edited 06-20-2003).]
Since Diovan (and the entire class of angiotensin 2 receptor blockers) are the LEAST likely to cause depression, it would be great if Diovan would work to lower your BP.
What dosage are you on? Are you on the maximum?
If Diovan doesn't do it, there's always the possibility of trying Benicar or another ARB since even though they're in the same class, sometimes a few molecules make all the difference. I know people who couldn't get good control on Diovan but found Benicar or other angiotensin 2's to work beautifully. Also there's a brand NEW addition to the ARBs called Teveten that is supposed to be very effective.
zuzu xx
[This message has been edited by zuzu8 (edited 06-20-2003).]
empire
06-21-2003, 05:14 PM
i am on 160 mg in am and 80 mg about 3:00 PM ..thank you for your interest
empire
06-21-2003, 09:13 PM
i am on 240 mgs a day, thanks for your concern
zuzu8
06-22-2003, 03:55 AM
Empire......I need to know something....Why has your doctor prescribed Parnate, of all the anti-depressants available?
The monographs on Parnate have warnings that
it is a potent agent with the capability of producing serious side effects. Parnate is NOTrecommended EVER, where other antidepressant drugs may be effective. It should only be reserved for patients who can be closely supervised and who have not responded satisfactorily to the drugs more commonly administered for depression.
Have you tried others and found them ineffective?
Parnate also comes with a serious warning about blood pressure:
QUOTE:"HYPERTENSIVE CRISES: The most important reaction associated with Parnate (tranylcypromine sulfate) is the occurrence of hypertensive crises, with paradoxical increase in blood pressure." UNQUOTE
It goes on to say that in all patients taking Parnate, blood pressure should be followed closely to detect evidence of any hypertensive responses.
Maybe the Parnate is preventing your BP meds from being effective. Or is causing you HBP in the first place.
What came first, the chicken or the egg? Forgive me if you've mentioned this already but were you on BP meds first or Parnate first?
zuzu xxx
The monographs on Parnate have warnings that
it is a potent agent with the capability of producing serious side effects. Parnate is NOTrecommended EVER, where other antidepressant drugs may be effective. It should only be reserved for patients who can be closely supervised and who have not responded satisfactorily to the drugs more commonly administered for depression.
Have you tried others and found them ineffective?
Parnate also comes with a serious warning about blood pressure:
QUOTE:"HYPERTENSIVE CRISES: The most important reaction associated with Parnate (tranylcypromine sulfate) is the occurrence of hypertensive crises, with paradoxical increase in blood pressure." UNQUOTE
It goes on to say that in all patients taking Parnate, blood pressure should be followed closely to detect evidence of any hypertensive responses.
Maybe the Parnate is preventing your BP meds from being effective. Or is causing you HBP in the first place.
What came first, the chicken or the egg? Forgive me if you've mentioned this already but were you on BP meds first or Parnate first?
zuzu xxx
Elias Fernandez
06-23-2003, 02:49 PM
wow! If he says Parnate first then I will be floored. But I guess I will have to doubt doctors ability to check the side effects of drugs versus complaints. I mean if you took so little time to find this out Zulu why would his doctor not figure it out!?!
Makes my BP go thru the roof when I think about how little doctrs seem to research what they are giving out. :(
Makes my BP go thru the roof when I think about how little doctrs seem to research what they are giving out. :(
zuzu8
06-23-2003, 11:32 PM
Elias- Exactly!
That's why we have to keep reading up for ourselves and be proactive about our care.....jeesh!
zuzu
That's why we have to keep reading up for ourselves and be proactive about our care.....jeesh!
zuzu
SamQKitty
06-25-2003, 11:55 AM
Zuzu - regarding parnate
MAO inhibitors only have the hypertensive reactions if you eat the wrong foods. If you stick with the diet (no cheese, red wine, beer, sour cream, etc.), they actually LOWER the blood pressure.
For years MAOI's have had a bad rep because of the possibility of surges in the blood pressure if the wrong food is eaten. However, they are excellent medications for treating depression AND high blood pressure. In fact, before the calcium channel blockers, MAOI's were the ONLY medication that lowered my blood pressure.
The SSRI's and the tricyclics do not work for everyone. I'm one of those people who gets absolutely no relief from either of those categories of drugs. The first time I went on the MAOI's, I stayed on them for four years with no side effects (except my BP coming down, which was a blessing). I've been on them twice since then, and each time have had no serious side effects except for a bit of insomnia the first couple of weeks.
Most psychiatrists do not use MAOI's as the first line of treatment, so I would imagine that anyone taking parnate has already tried several other drugs to no avail.
MAO inhibitors only have the hypertensive reactions if you eat the wrong foods. If you stick with the diet (no cheese, red wine, beer, sour cream, etc.), they actually LOWER the blood pressure.
For years MAOI's have had a bad rep because of the possibility of surges in the blood pressure if the wrong food is eaten. However, they are excellent medications for treating depression AND high blood pressure. In fact, before the calcium channel blockers, MAOI's were the ONLY medication that lowered my blood pressure.
The SSRI's and the tricyclics do not work for everyone. I'm one of those people who gets absolutely no relief from either of those categories of drugs. The first time I went on the MAOI's, I stayed on them for four years with no side effects (except my BP coming down, which was a blessing). I've been on them twice since then, and each time have had no serious side effects except for a bit of insomnia the first couple of weeks.
Most psychiatrists do not use MAOI's as the first line of treatment, so I would imagine that anyone taking parnate has already tried several other drugs to no avail.
zuzu8
06-25-2003, 08:44 PM
Hi SamQ- Thanks for the info. I knew about the food interactions (my father was put on an MAOI thirty years ago, (in London) and wasn't warned (can you believe it?) about CHEESE, which was his great passion...and he indeed had a crisis which landed him in the ER. I didn't realize though that the boxed warning that I read in the monograph pertained only to situations regarding food interactions, since it isn't mentioned in the box.
Still waiting to hear from empire as to whether Parnate was indicated only after trying other alternatives.....
I presume your BP is now being controlled by a Calcium Channel Blocker, am I right?
Again, thanks for the add'l info!
Later...
zuzu xxx
[This message has been edited by zuzu8 (edited 06-25-2003).]
Still waiting to hear from empire as to whether Parnate was indicated only after trying other alternatives.....
I presume your BP is now being controlled by a Calcium Channel Blocker, am I right?
Again, thanks for the add'l info!
Later...
zuzu xxx
[This message has been edited by zuzu8 (edited 06-25-2003).]
zuzu8
06-25-2003, 08:46 PM
sorry... double post...
[This message has been edited by zuzu8 (edited 06-25-2003).]
[This message has been edited by zuzu8 (edited 06-25-2003).]
empire
06-26-2003, 07:02 AM
this has gooten hurtful. yes i know of hypertensive crisis, but pasturized cheese is ok. if you research maoi`s lower presuure. parnate lowers my pressure. it is the best med for PTSD i have from being in the marines during the nam era. i am going to disappear, there has always been prejudice against nam vets, we stick together what is left of us.
good luck everyone, sorry to cause a raucus
good luck everyone, sorry to cause a raucus
zuzu8
06-26-2003, 01:17 PM
Empire- Oh dear....have we hurt and overwhelmed you rather than helped?
If so, I feel terrible about this.....we're just trying to sort out all this very complicated stuff with you, wanting you to feel better and reassured rather than more depressed.
zuzu xxx
If so, I feel terrible about this.....we're just trying to sort out all this very complicated stuff with you, wanting you to feel better and reassured rather than more depressed.
zuzu xxx
drisnya
06-27-2003, 12:52 AM
come on empire, don't crap out like that...stick around here or some other board anyplace else and get involved a while every night...no kidding.
with one kidney you might be stressing the hell out of it with meds, overall health issues. do you exercise at all, anything to get the blood moving a bit? this is pretty pedestrian but the more i study high bp, there seems to be some connection between nutrition and exercise...i'm on norvasc and hctz...potassium gets low; i take slo-mag and potassium supps...adrenaline produced by glands near kidneys; jacks up bp...just stick around and see if you get any advice that could help you....take some notes and grab your doctor's attention and show him/her what you learn. if they don't listen or patronize you, get another doc...they're working for my and my ins co's money so they'd better get me some satisfaction.
just my unsolicited two cents but stay here and let's haze each other, learn a bit, have some fun, relax and be well.
with one kidney you might be stressing the hell out of it with meds, overall health issues. do you exercise at all, anything to get the blood moving a bit? this is pretty pedestrian but the more i study high bp, there seems to be some connection between nutrition and exercise...i'm on norvasc and hctz...potassium gets low; i take slo-mag and potassium supps...adrenaline produced by glands near kidneys; jacks up bp...just stick around and see if you get any advice that could help you....take some notes and grab your doctor's attention and show him/her what you learn. if they don't listen or patronize you, get another doc...they're working for my and my ins co's money so they'd better get me some satisfaction.
just my unsolicited two cents but stay here and let's haze each other, learn a bit, have some fun, relax and be well.