OK, guys. One week ago tonight I was just being wheeled to my room from the recovery room after the completion of a PLIF at L4-L5 and decompression there as well as at L3-L4. According to the doc, there were no surprises. He did just what we'd discussed, etc. And I am feeling just about the way I thought I would. My question is how do you judge progress? I don't know how much I should be moving around. I backed off the walking a couple days ago when I had horrendous pain and/or cramping in the tops of both thighs. Today I slept almost the entire day.

I'm not supposed to do anything until I see the doc on the 24th. So, in the meantime, do I just rest, relax, sleep, and walk when I can? Or do I try to push it a little?

Thanks, sage people for your advice.:cool:

xx MM

You have it exactly. Lots of rest, eating well balanced meals, taking calcium, walking, sleeping, eating, watching tv, sleeping, walking.....you get the picture. Let everyone wait on you and listen to your body.

The only other thing you might consider is trying to sit in 5 minute increments and begin increasing it slowly.

For about the next 3 to 6 weeks this should be your game plan. Pretty exciting isn't it??

I felt reasonably perky for a few days, but not now!:( I had been told by folks here and even by my surgeon that nerve pain would kick in around day 10, so I am expecting it any day now. But I just didn't know if I was supposed to be sitting up a lot, fixing my own lunch, doing isomtric stretches, etc....I don't know why it would be good to sit up since that puts the most load on the spine, right? For the first time, my legs felt weak when I walked to the bathroom.

Thanks for posting. I look forward to something to read!!;)

I was given a 15 minute sitting restriction for the first weeks. Even 15 minutes was too painful, though. Like Pepper said, listen to your body. Sitting does put more stress on your spine. If it hurts, don't do it. That's fine! I ate at least two meals a day lying down for quite a long time, and often the third, too!

You do need to walk, but other than that, just rest as much as you can. It takes energy for your body to heal from this huge trauma it's been through. You don't want to spend your energy on other things if you don't have to. If there's no one to fix your lunch, make something as simple as possible. But if someone else can do it, please let them! We don't have cable TV at our house, but I watched shows I didn't even know existed on our limited channels. I watched more TV in 6 months than I probably have in the last 20 years! But that's okay. That gave me something to do. I found it hard to read with the pain meds; they made my eyes kind of buzzy. But however you find to pass the day, just do something lying down and resting. Knitting, reading, watching TV, playing on the computer if you have a small laptop you can put on a pillow on top of you, talking on the phone, etc. I spent most of the first two months lying down, then gradually less and less, but even at 6 months I was needing to lie down for a couple of hours in the middle of the day. Don't push yourself, and don't feel guilty about it! Your job is to maximize your healing potential by following doctor's orders and resting!

Take care. Keep posting.
Emily :wave:

Honey,
I am not trying to play a Dr here but based on my long time experience and 2 major surgeries one of them was just 3 weeks ago I want to share with you something.
Visiting Nurse came one day to check on me; while she was here she called my Dr Camissa's office to see if they want to send a PT to my house for mild (mostly in bed) some PT acitivities.
NP from DR Camissa's office said that no PT for me for 3 month and only activites my body can tolerate: mild walking with walker or cane to relieve pressure while walking, that is about it.
No standing for more than 10 minutes at one place, no seating more than 7-10 minutes at the time. You body is the best indicator: hurts, take it easy than.
I had to go last week to NYC for MRI and other tests and when I came home 11 hours later - I tought I will die from pain. Next couple of days I felt that a truch run over my back and pain was unberable.
Just take it easy, don't rush. I know how hard this is and how we all want to do something asap. Stop that' not only you will be in pain, you can damage something, don't forget it takes such a long time to build your strenght back, for nerves to heal and for fusion to take.
I try to think that January is almost over, in March weather may be very nice and we can start walking outside - ahhhhh, sweet dreams.
And yes, sleep as much as you can - we heal during sleeping. Nice advice, ha? I wish I could sleep, still very uncomfortable.
Keep your chin up, girl!:)

Thanks, ladies. My inclination is to stay in bed and sleep quite a bit. But I have been told to walk as much as I'm comfortable with. When I get up to go to the bathroom I make one pass through the first floor of the house and then straight back to bed. That is enough to make my left leg feel a little weak/tired out. So does that sound about right? I know I could walk a little further, but I don't want to push it.

You all are such a wonderful resource...love you guys!!

MM

If that's what you can handle right now, then that's absolutely fine! Add a little more each day, even just one more room's distance, you know, double back in one room, as you can tolerate. Don't fret if you have days that you can't keep up with what you did the day before. Ups and downs are normal.

Take care,
Emily

MM and Moldova and all...

Please take your time and , rest, rest, rest..

MM are you able to sleep on your back, your side? What's best?

Moldova..I'm happy your MRI is over and now you can stay put and get the rest you need....Please don't try to do too much ladies.

Hang in there and keep your strength up by eating good well balanced meals.

All the best.

Hi LAF ~

I am able to sleep on my back or my side, using pillows under my knees or between them as needed. I haven't quite figured out how to keep myself covered with the various pain pills. Today I used fewer, and while I probably "hurt" a bit more, I liked feeling more awake and "with-it."

I made several trips into the kitchen where I made an executive decision on what I felt like eating...and then my son carried it back out to the den for me!!

I am surprised how I don't feel like there is steady progress. Everything feels quite random. I feel like I can walk one minute, and then another moment it feels like my knee is just going to buckle.

Back to bed for me -- talk to you later. :cool:

xx MM

I'm not supposed to do anything until I see the doc on the 24th. So, in the meantime, do I just rest, relax, sleep, and walk when I can? Or do I try to push it a little?

xx MM

Rest rest rest! At least for the first week or two. I remember I could only get out of bed and go to the bathroom and then i had to lay down again. You'll have plenty of time to "push it." I used a walker for the first few weeks. I could walk a lot farther and I had something to lean on when I got tired. My doc said to not leave the house for the first week, and then to walk down the block and back.

-David

Thanks, David. So I should just give in to the urge to sleep, sleep, sleep. Other than a couple quick steps to the bathroom, I use the walker. I awaken and find myself in these weird positions in bed. I am so afraid that I am going to damage something.

My doc ordered nothing -- just rest and recovery until I see him for that first check-up.

I'm quite good at sleeping. :dizzy:

Any other suggestions??:confused:

It's only week ONE for you..Be patient....I heard a good story tonight from a client who said....it's a slow process but worth it in the end..

Be patient and REST........

At least for the first two, sleeping is probably the only thing you'll want to do. Your body's been through a very rough experience and it really needs to rest. The first three to four weeks are slow going, but I noticed a rapid improvement over the following month. It seems like it took about a month for the area to settle down and relax a bit; at that point I just started walking more and more. So don't worry. I know for the first weeks it feels like your spine is going to snap in two if you don't keep absolutely straight, and I know I was always worried I was "doing something wrong." Progress just means doing a little better than you did before.

Good Luck,
David

Hi Dave ~

When you first started walking, did you use a walker? Did you have pain in the front of your thighs? I can go a ways and then my muscles just feel like they're going to collapse. So I sit down and wait a little bit and can then walk a bit more. Is that how to approach it? I don't think the pain is worse one way or the other.

How are you coming along, Dave?

Hi Dave ~

When you first started walking, did you use a walker? Did you have pain in the front of your thighs? I can go a ways and then my muscles just feel like they're going to collapse. So I sit down and wait a little bit and can then walk a bit more. Is that how to approach it? I don't think the pain is worse one way or the other.

How are you coming along, Dave?

Absolutely! I could barely hold myself up at first. The walker is perfect for that, you can put more weight on your arms and hold yourself upright; it takes some of the pressure off of your spine. Try it... it's really great for those first few weeks. I used mine for the first 4 weeks.

One thing that I would strongly suggest is to get some glide tips, which look like little skis. You replace the back rubber tips with them. That way you can walk faster and not have to plant the walker and pick it up with every step; it slides (grinds) on the sidewalk. I think they're mandatory.

The pain in your thighs is a good thing; it means you are using the proper muscles. I had a lot of practice squatting and using my leg muscles as much as possible, because I was in pain for so long and had to keep my back absolutely immobile. Still, I was sore from not walking for a long time.

After one month, I started taking longer walks, using trekking poles. These are a godsend... they're like ski poles but they're collapsible. Within 2 weeks I was walking a mile a day! I highly recommend them. You can get them at most camping supply stores or outdoor sports shops. Leki and Komperdell are good brands.

I can't say enough good things about both the walker and the poles. I have residual numbness in my right foot (which may be permanent) so I had to really look at my feet and legs while I walked in order to concentrate on the mechanics, cuz my foot felt funny. The walker and poles made it much easier.

Today I'm at almost 3 months and I walk 3-5 miles a day. I start doing physical therapy in a week or so, and we'll be doing core strengthening and stretching (my two favorite things! NOT!). Luckily I've had no major recurrence of the nerve pain, and my doctors certainly seem happy.

Good Luck!

David

My walker had wheels on the front and gliders on the back. Hubby was worried about the wood floors, though, so he put tennis balls on the back legs, over the gliders. That worked just fine, as good as the gliders and didn't mess up the floors.

I lost a lot of leg muscle during my recovery. I never had such great leg muscles anyway, but now they're pretty pitiful. I don't know how to build them back up. I used to run, years ago before my knees went bad, and had the best legs I ever had, but I can't run anymore and can't even walk fast. I tried the exercise bike, and will continue, but it worked the same muscles you're having pain with, the fronts of my thighs. That's good, those muscles need some help, too, but my calf muscles have about disappeared and the exercise bike didn't seem to work them much. At least, they weren't sore at all. I thought I had stick legs before! I'd love to have them back!

All in good time. I guess these things don't resolve overnight!

Keep hanging in there!
Emily

Thanks for the tips. Dave, I have some walking poles that I'd forgotten about. I won't be outside walking for awhile. I think it is about 5 degrees today...but I'll use them when I can get outdoors. I was feeling like a failure because I can't walk more than a few steps without the walker. It feels like my muscles are not firing in any predictable way. Something feels fairly secure and then next step it feels shakey. I felt really bad when I went to bed last night. And weird. Then I remembered the surgical assistant had told me that around the 10th day, the nerves would start to "wake up" from the anesthetic and I woud have some new sensations. I'm hoping that's what was going on.

Emily, have you tried a good quality elliptical trainer for your legs? I don't know if spineys are allowed to use them -- but they do give all your leg muscles a good work-out.

I go to a gym, and I did try the elliptical once. It felt very awkward, I guess because I have such a long fusion, T4-Sacrum. I don't bend at all. I discovered that you need to have a little spine movement to use that machine. I ended up injuring my heel because of how it jerked me around. It took months to heal. I'm afraid to use it again. I use the treadmill, but I think it does more for my heart and overall strength than my legs.

But thanks for the suggestion. I could tell it would be a great workout if I hadn't hurt myself on it.

Emily

Rest, rest rest, catch up on some books or movies. And your doctor's right about day 10 I had the most horrendous muscle spasms and had to call the doctor for meds. I could barely get up with my walker to go to the bathroom. After that things started to get better. I could cook some heat and eat dinners by myself and could shower without help. Dr. started me in pt about week 3 , and I was allowed to drive short distances about then.Keep in mind this is different for everyone. A lot of people here told me they didn't start pt until 6 or 8 weeks post-op and were not allowed to drive at all.Good Luck with your recovery, Dee:)

Hi Emily,

If you belong to a gym, you could hire a trainer for a couple sessions and have them come up with a pilates type work out that you could do...even a series of floor exercises. You'd need to find a trainer who understands your special needs...but it should be possible!

I don't know how mobile you are...but if you can stand and/or walk, you could look into a type of dance exercise called NIA. They have come out with a "Gentle" NIA program that is OK for most people. I'm hoping that after I heal from my fusion, I will be able to take this class!!

I felt really bad when I went to bed last night. And weird. Then I remembered the surgical assistant had told me that around the 10th day, the nerves would start to "wake up" from the anesthetic and I woud have some new sensations. I'm hoping that's what was going on.


Yep. That's what's going on. It's not uncommon to have a huge pain spike 10 days to 3 weeks after your surgery, cuz the long-acting anesthetic wears off.

i'm going to do some stationary bike stuff, but I'm not up to bending over to grab the handlebars yet, I do it sitting straight up.

For the muscles, it might be worth looking into a place that does a combination of massage and electro-stimulation. I had a chronic groin pull a long time ago and the combo of the two made all the difference! Got things firing at the right time. I doubt that my insurance covers that kind of stuff so I may have to find it on my own.

I know what you mean about the calf muscles, Emily. That's the part that really kills right now - I didn't really walk on it for several months, plus I have to concentrate working it because of the numbness in my foot. I need a really good massage!

-David

Hi Emily,

If you belong to a gym, you could hire a trainer for a couple sessions and have them come up with a pilates type work out that you could do...even a series of floor exercises. You'd need to find a trainer who understands your special needs...but it should be possible!

I don't know how mobile you are...but if you can stand and/or walk, you could look into a type of dance exercise called NIA. They have come out with a "Gentle" NIA program that is OK for most people. I'm hoping that after I heal from my fusion, I will be able to take this class!!

You know those people who always have an excuse for not getting off their butts and doing something? I'm not one of them. But here goes: unfortunately, hiring a trainer is out. We're trying not to lose our house! The gym was a lot cheaper than continuing with PT. Floor exercises, well, I can't exactly get onto the floor. I'm just too stiff. I don't bend at all. It's so hard to do anything down low. I can get to my knees and pull myself back up, but to get all the way down isn't a pretty picture! I have to kind of fall over for the last foot supporting myself on one arm and catch myself on my thigh. Same thing for dancing. I can shrug my shoulders. That's the only part of my back that moves any more. I tried to dance in front of the mirror a few days ago, just to see what I could do. Well, I guess I'll have to specialize in The Robot! No hip, no waist, no back and forth movement at all. I'm not complaining and not making excuses. It's just the way it is. I do appreciate your ideas! They're good ones, except for my 14 fused vertebrae! :) BUT, you have inspired me to talk to the employees at the gym. Some of them are quite willing to walk around and help you find machines for specific purposes. I'm sure if I find the right person and explain my weird situation, they'll give me some direction.

You're a sweetie! I hope you turn a corner soon. It's a long recovery, but as you see yourself making baby steps, you'll be encouraged. Bit by bit, you'll get there.

David, you're really sounding good. How wonderful that you're on the bike already! I didn't start PT until 5 months post-op! You go!!!

~Emily

Hi Emily ~

I kind of forgot how extensive your surgeries have been. In a way its lucky you can move at all. Anyway, I am far from a gym rat, but it's been my experience that some of the new trainers who are kind of new to the profession are eager to show what they know. Sometimes there are times when the trainers will work for free or a reduced rate...maybe a promotion like that will come along...and one of the eager young guys will take you on as a special challenge. Think of some of those inspirational stories that are on cable TV from time to time where someone only has a couple body parts that work and yet they're out there accomplishing something remarkable. There has to be some kind of movement you can do that will be good for you, that will open your heart, and that will bring you joy. Challenge them to find something interesting for your limitations!!

Rest, rest rest, catch up on some books or movies. And your doctor's right about day 10 I had the most horrendous muscle spasms and had to call the doctor for meds. I could barely get up with my walker to go to the bathroom. After that things started to get better. I could cook some heat and eat dinners by myself and could shower without help. Dr. started me in pt about week 3 , and I was allowed to drive short distances about then.Keep in mind this is different for everyone. A lot of people here told me they didn't start pt until 6 or 8 weeks post-op and were not allowed to drive at all.Good Luck with your recovery, Dee:)

what is a pain spike?

I believe what he meant by "pain spike" is that, generally speaking, you start feeling better after the surgery, and then around the 10th day the nerves that were involved in the surgery start to "wake" up and there is a spike upwards in the level of pain that you feel.

Some say it is because the docs put in a numbing medication as they are closing you up and it lasts about 10 days...and then you start hurting more. I specifically asked my usrgeon about it; she said that the numbing agent wears off after about 8-10 hours, but at around day 10, the nerves that were decompressed during the surgery, that were pulled and stretched, start to wake up and it is painful. :(

If you belong to a gym, you could hire a trainer for a couple sessions and have them come up with a pilates type work out that you could do...even a series of floor exercises. You'd need to find a trainer who understands your special needs...but it should be possible!



Thanks for the idea! I talked to one of the trainers yesterday. You can hire them, but you can also just talk to them and beat their brains a bit. He was happy to help me for no fee at all, just because that's what they do.

He found two machines for me that would work my upper leg muscles but not put strain on my back. But get this: he gave me the simplest exercise I can do at home for my calf muscles. I did it when I got home, and I could really feel it and my legs were really shaky afterward, so I know it gave those muscles a good workout. He told me to stand on a step with the balls of my feet planted firmly but the heels hanging off the edge. Go up on my toes, then down so my heels are an inch or two below the level of the step, repeat a bunch of times. Wow! So simple! I did 3 sets of 30 and it was difficult by the end, but really good!

Yea!!!
~Emily

Hi Emily,

I'm so glad you found someone at the gym who could help you. Now you have a little something to begin with and then to build on. I am looking forward to the time when I can begin a few little exercises too. My legs have really atrophied in the last year or so.

xx MM