about my cholesterol that is.. BP is sitting tight at about 125/75.. my BPM have gotten elevated a bit but i think it's because i am still kicking this toprol out of my system.. only been 3-4 days..

In any case.. i can safely say that Atkins works.. I am on a light atkins diet 60 carbs per day and run 3.5 miles p/day.

I started atkins on 6/1/03... take a look at these numbers..

DATE: 2/1/01 6/1/03 10/1/03
HDL 38 35 46
LDL 203 177 160
Tri 258 254 232
Total 270 263 242

Ratio 180.4 177.2 149.6

Ratio calc: LDL= TC-HDL-(Trigs/5)

I am on my way to a better Cholesterol level WITHOUT drugs.. Atkins is a permanent part of my life.

thank god, i was SO SCARED of having to get on a statin or zetia or anything else..

feeling better about this situation.. even if it is a small step..

F.

Watch out for Atkins. My hubby who has a normal BP and pulse and always has, went on Atkins for a few weeks. Had a routine physical in the middle of it. His blood pressure was very high. Went off atkins and has normal blood pressure since. BP went down after he got off the atkins. So watch out!

Flamaest-
So happy you BP is holding beautifully and fingers crossed to 160mg Diovan continues to do the job.

The Atkin's diet has definitely improved your cholesterol #s significantly, although there is still a way to go. I'm not a cholesterol "buff" (where's Moxie these days?) but do you have any concerns about the lack of fiber and what it could do to a body in the long run after many years? So much controversy reeling about this diet, and I know very little....
Still, I know you want to avoid Zetia et al like the plague, so if your #s continue to improve and check-ups with your doctor continue to indicate no negative "fallout" far be it from me to say stop!

Can you set me straight on something? I keep reading conflicting "norms" for HDL and LDL. Is the normal reference range for HDL approx 40-85 mg/dl...
And for LDL, 65-130? And one lab I've been to says triglycerides should be 10-190 but another says 50-200....Different labs seem to have diff. criteria.


zuzu xxx


[This message has been edited by zuzu8 (edited 10-08-2003).]

The measurement for cholesterol seem to vary by who you talk to. I was told that the ratio is what is important. The higher your HDL the better. In fact, there is a theory now that if your HDL is 90, you are 'bulletproof' (as the doctor put it) because the good cholesterol is high enough to cause the bad cholesterol not to stick at all. Since my HDL is very high, I like this theory.

still kicking this toprol out of my system..

the main effect of Toprol is to lower your HR.. So it has been 6 days that I have stopped/weened off the Toprol and My HR is ok when I am at rest (60-80)..

but if i get up to simply walk to the restroom or the kitchen, my HR goes up significantly (90-110) and I get a little dizzy.. this happens more in the morning than in the afternoon.

I will give the toprol another few days to exit my system.. but after that, shouldn't I think about using it if I can't seem to keep my HR down? Stoping a med often produces the opposite effect and I am concerned that it is my body wanted this drug which I am not providing anymore..

BTW.. I believe my HR started jumping like this soon after I started the diovan 80mg a long time ago.. is this a side effect of the drug..?

Worst case, I will take 12mg of toprol instead of the 25mg which seemed to keep me stable without causing any side effects..


F.


[This message has been edited by flamaest (edited 10-10-2003).]

About cholesterol..

yes, some studies say one thing and other say diffrent things..

After becoming familiar with these all numbers.. I can say that good number ranges for most folks is:

HDL: 40 or higher.
LDL: 130 or lower
TRI: 200 or lower

TOT: 190 or lower

F.

Flamaest- Increased heart rate is not a side effect of Diovan.

Remind me why your doc upped the Diovan in the first place while you were on Toprol/Diovan 80mg...were you simply not getting enough BP control?

When you get up and move around, a heart rate of 90 isn't bad at all...But you say it goes up to 112 sometimes. Again, "sometimes" isn't awful either...it depends on what activity you are doing and for how long the heart rate stays up there. After sitting a long while and then getting up to go into the kitchen, your heart rate is bound to accelerate. I would just ask my doc if he/she thinks it should stay lower. Maybe you're idea of 12.5 Toprol being added back into the mix is one way to go.

But first, see what happens for a little while longer without the Toprol...You body may need more time to stop "needing" it. Your resting heart rate is bang-on perfect.

Wondering if the dizziness is anxiety related....90-112 bpm wouldn't necessarily cause this.

zuzu xx

The Doc upped my Diovan because althought the BP reading were good when i was at rest, he still noticed increses during times of stress..

Will let you know what happens with the toprol..

F.

It has now been 1.5 weeks since having stopped the Toprol 25 mg. I am almost certain it took me 8 days to rid my system of this drug..

untill 2 days ago, my HR was up and down, but mostly up.. I have been working out everyday and have noticed that I am feeling much better..

sounds weird, but I can now walk to my car without feeling like my heart is going to fly out of my chest due to the increased HR..

I have stopped being anxious all the time.

I am only on diovan 160 and will post my BP reading shortly.. but I suspect they are on target..

Thanks ZUZU!
F.

Flamest

You have given me hope. How long were you on the Toprol? Did you feel tired on it at all? This Saturday will be my last day with 1/2 dose of Toprol in my tapering off process. Still not sure if its the evil of all my ills, but I sure hope so. I was fine when I went to 25 mg ( 1/2 dose) but when I went to every other day 1/2 dose I went back to feeling horrible, jittery etc. Last week appetite was back, this week its off again. I know it could be anxiety, from Toprol or not. Can you tell me if you had any other symptoms besides heart rate when weaning off Toprol. I hope to get rid of the jitters when I am off of this, if its the cause. Funny thing is that the Dr. said I should not have withdrawl, but I have read from other people that they felt they did have it, besides heart rate.

Thanks
Sil

[This message has been edited by Sillyme03 (edited 10-16-2003).]

Flamaest- You're sounding good, kiddo.
160mg Diovan...that's exactly what I take and so far so good.
Don't forget to give us an update!

zuzu xx

Sil..

>>How long were you on the Toprol?

4 months.

>>Did you feel tired on it at all?

not at first.. it crept up on me and i thought it was something else.. like if i was getting sick or something.. it was awful..


>>feeling horrible, jittery etc.

exaclty!! when you drop the drug comeplety, it may take up to TWO weeks to get you back in gear.. i am writing this .. and i feel perfect now. I was feeling very bad back then as you can see from my history..


>>Last week appetite was back,

take this slow.. soups, salds.. stay away from big meals or lots of solids.. for a few weeks..

>>>I know it could be anxiety, from Toprol or not.

It was the Toprol for me.. garunteed.


>>other symptoms besides heart rate when weaning

anxiety, BIG TIME.

>>Dr. said I should not have withdrawl,

BS BS and more BS.

no prob.. good luck!!

Thanks so much Flamaest.

I missed this earlier, no need to elaborate any more.

Not that I am glad it could happen to anyone else, but I am hoping big time this is what it is and it makes me feel better knwing I am not alone.

Thanks big time
Sil

Flamaest

Oops, One other question. Did it affect your appetite? I noticed you said to take it easy, just wondering if you had this experience. I have not had a big meal since end of August.

not sure really.. i just notice that if i have a big meal.. i don;t feel as good as having some soup or some salad..

Plus, it's better for your health anyway.. :)

F.

Flamaest

How did you know when your withdrawal was over.

For a day or two I can feel stronger, better, not really anxious, but the next day can be a disaster, anxiety, tired again, etc.

Tomorrow will only be a week that I am off, so I know it could take up to a month, depending on me, but just wondering when you finally knew it was over.

Thanks
Sil

hello... I've had conversations with you both from the "withdrawal symptoms?" topic. I just wanted to join in because of the HR discussion. I've been tapering off of Toprol for a few days now, and yesterday I noticed my HR was over 108. I didn't know that would be a side effect and it scared me. It just made me feel better to read your discussion. I'm normally an active person, but I've felt so weak and tired lately. Did you guys feel this way too?
I've really cut down my activities. It is miserable going trough this. Also, how does your head feel? Mine feels at times okay, but other times strange. Kind of heavy and weird sensations at times. Was not sure if this was from the Toprol or sinus pressure.
Thanks!

One more questions, while I think of it... did either of you have problems with your eyes associated with Toprol? My eyes get tired easily now and they ache.
Not sure if that is the Toprol or sinus pressure problems. Thanks again!

slpagirl

So glad you joined our discussion. Atleast we all know we are not alone and not nuts!

I have slowed down tremendously. I never exercised enough, but I have 3 kids and normally went running around with them. My husband has been pitching in. some days I miss their soccer games because I felt lousy. Today they are going to Dorney park without me. I went all summer and walked with them for hours, not today for sure! I want to be able to do that again next season.

Today is the 1 week off Toprol mark for me, so I hope things get better. How long have you been off? My head is not as clear as it was, so I know the feeling. I don't sleep great nights, I have always had that problem, but in the middle of the night at times I wake up with restless legs and some anxiety. Never had that before. Its not all the time, but enough to make me miserable.

I wear glasses and just got new ones, but I have always had bad eyesight. I don't think my eye problems have anything to do with Toprol. Its probably sinus, but you just never know with all these weird side effects.

We can make it thru this together....

Sil

Hi Sil... Thanks for replying. I've been tapering off of ToprolXL since Wednesday. I'm still taking 12.5 mg, because of my accelerated HR. I know how you feel about cutting down on your activities. I've had a hard time scheduling activities, because I'm afraid I won't feel up to it. But the good news is is that everyday, it seems to get a little better. Less head sensations, better blood pressure, better sleep and a little more energy everyday. Yeah, we'll get through this together. Let's keep each other updated! Thanks again.

Slpagirl

Will you be staying on the Toprol? I am still feeling some effects, like accelerated HR, did not seem to have that first few days.

I am waiting to hear from Flamaest about when he knew for sure it was out if his system.

I was on for almost a year, so may take me longer to get it out.

Hope we are all doing better
Sil

Hi Sil... I am still having the accelerated HR as well.
Last night, it was over 100 consistently, so I visted the doctor today. They did an EKG and checked my blood work from last week. The EKG results were okay and the blood work had good results. The doctor said we will watch my HR for another week. She wants to take me off of Toprol on Friday completely, and double my Lotensin. I still get tired very easily. Take care...sorry to hear your HR is still up.

Good luck to you too.

My HR isn't that bad at rest. I don' take it after going up steps, because I know it will be high and scare me. I am still having that shaky feeling, can't seem to get rid of that.

Let us know what is going on
Sil

How is everyone doing?

Flamaest, It has been 10 days, and still having jitters, shakes and some accelrated HR. I woke up at 2am and could not sleep. Heart was in the 80 to 90 range. When will all this end?
Had blood sugar tested again last friday, came back 90 after fasting, so seems to be good.

If its not the Toprol, I don't know what else it could be. Thyroid has been checked and is normal also. Is 10 days still too soon for it to be out of my system? I am going to wait longer, I just feel horrible still.
Sil

i would tend to say 10 days is still boarderline.. i would say wait 2 solid weeks (14 days)..

Keep in mind i was/am on a strict workout scheduale of running 3.5 miles a day which may have contributed to the flushing of the torpol so quickly.. i noticed that even is my pulse was high at rest, it would stabalize during a light walk on a CONTROLLED treadmill.. not outside. there is a major diffrence with the two in terms of exertion levels and if you feel bad, it is much easier to lie down on your bed.. :)

also, i highly recommend getting some relaxation music.. sounds from nature.. that sort of thing.. not music.. meditate, relax, AND remember, DON'T think about about it.. that is the key.

i know it's hard, but i can tell you the sometimes, it can also be a mental game.. it's amazing how our thoughts can trigger major changes in our body..

also, i have confirmed that eating soups and light snacks does better for me.. if i have large solid meals.. i don't feel as good and am not able to have a good workout..

Fabian.

Thank you Flamaest

I have not been exercising at all. Feeling this bad is hard, and if I do anything my heart starts beating fast and scares me.

It is these shakes and jitters I can't get rid of. Makes it hard to do anything including eat.
I am trying to make it thru day by day.

If its not the toprol ( hope it is) not thyroid, not diabetes could it be something else physical besides anxiety?

Thanks so much for your support
Sil

I highly recommend some light progressive daily exercise. I know you are scared.. I was too when weening off the toprol, but you have to start something.

Try some light walking, controlled breathing, and some cold water.. it should help you. The changes will not come in one or two days, but more like 3 or 4.. These things do help, and really work for me.

I am lucky, 6 years ago I was told I had GERD but I thought it was a heart problem, so I started investing in a gym. I bought the right tools to help myself feel better. I was then at 240 lbs, and over time have stabalized at 208 (6'2 30 year male)

I eat right, and workout regularly. The HBP is probubly genetic, but i have learned to keep that in check with diovan and, thank god, have no side effects..


F.

[Hi Flamaest


I have started a little exercise. So far just faster walking around the house, more like a march, but its a start. Up to 10 minutes this morning, hope to add a few minutes every few days. I hope to get strong enough to jog. One of my problems is still not much appetite. I want it back! and not sleeping makes me very tired, but I don't nap during the day. However by 6 at night I am totally wiped out, since I might wake up at 2am.


Its been 2.5 weeks since I am off. I received a call from a women who was only on Toprol xl for 3 weeks, gave her lots of anxiety as well. She thinks now after a full month its over. she had 2 good days in a row. I hope I can say the same thing soon.


How are you?