I have learned to become any type of MD it takes at least 12 years. Is this really that bad?? Also does residency take up most of your life at the time?? I really want to go into the medical field but i am not sure i can commit to that much schooling.

No, it does not take 12 years to gain an MD qualification at all and I don't know where you got that idea from?

Are you in the States or England?

If you are in the States, then you have to apply to med school after having taken the entrance exam for med school - I think it is either called MCAT or MCAD. You study in med school for 4 years, where you study all the normal things like medical sciences and pathology and then do rotations in Peds, ER, Surgery and such like. You then graduate med school with an MD and you then go onto to become an Intern and then a Resident. You can then get a Chief Residency and sometimes Fellowships are available if you want to specialise and then there are Attendings posts too. After med school you need to take the State Licencing exams before you can practice as a doc and you also need to be licenced in your speciality if you have one. You are now allowed to practice outside any State that you are not registered in.

In England the system is slightly different. You would spend 5 years in med school, as it is an undergraduate degree program, although a lot of med schools in Britain have developed courses that take only 4 years for people who already hold degrees with at least a 2:1 pass in a science subject. After this, you would then graduate with an MBBS or MBChB, an MBBChir (Cambridge), or whatever medical degree your chosen university awards. Following graduation, you get provisional registration with the General Medical Council and have to undertake a year as a houseofficer, normally in medicine and surgery and these are approved hospital posts. This is where you put all the clinical skills that you have learned in med school into practice under supervision. Following this year, you are then elegible for full registration with the GMC and you then go onto SHO posts and this is the time to start specialising if you want to. You then have full registration and can practice independently as a doctor. You then work your way up to Registrar, then Senior Registrar and ultimately a Consultant post. As an SHO, you work towards MRCP Parts 1 and 2. This is membership of the Royal College of Physicians and the first part if mostly theory, having to undertake a multiple-choice paper and the second part is the clinical part, where you are given patients to examine and arrive at a diagnosis. Most people fail this part more often than the Part 1.

After you are registered with the GMC you can practice medicine in any part of Britain, unlike the States, where you need to be licenced in the State where you want to practice. After taking MRCP, you can then take postgraduate exams that pertain to your speciality, like anesthesia or nephrology or whatever.

Anyway, it may take you up to 12 years to gain a Consultancy or an Attending post, but you will still be practicing as a doctor with an MD qualification. As I said, it will take you 4 years to graduate with the MD and then you just go on from there.

Hope this helps and good luck in your endeavors.

SORRY, BUT I THINK YOU ARE WRONG...In the States, you must have a Bachelor of Science (4 year degree) upon entering Medical School. You then enter Medical School and learn all aspects of the medical field for 4 years where you gain your MD. Then you have to go through Residency etc. For example, in residency, for general surgery you will probably work for 100-120 hours a week. That is just how tough it is.

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!~$¤ttbflawless¤$~!

You do NOT need a B.Sc. for med school. Med schools will accept any undergraduate degree provided you can attain a high standing in the bio, chem and physics portions of the MCAT. The easiest and fastest way to learn enough about the subjects to obtain these high standings is to do the undergraduate degree. BTW, an increasing proportion of successful med school applicants have a Masters or Ph.D.

This is a link for pre-med advice. http://www.bol.ucla.edu/~ericwang/

[This message has been edited by Jay Tor (edited 08-16-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Jay Tor (edited 08-16-2002).]

I always wondered if a medical person works say 100 to 120 hours a week, isn't that very unhealthy for that person? How does that impact the patients?

Do any of you think that working those many hours could increase errors that are committed in hospitals. Why are the hours excessive? Shouldn't there be limits placed on this?

By the way, I know that once a person starts working 60 hours a week or more, for an extended period of time, the productivity drops substantially to about a 40 hour workweek level or less. Eventually, as the workload keeps increasing for this person the productivity drops to zero (essentially you have worked this person to being sick or worse).

I was just curious.

One hundred and twenty hours a week is over 17 hours a day. Now if a person takes time to eat, wash, dress, and prepare for the work assignment for about 3 hours a day, that means they are only getting about 4 hours of sleep continuously each day. Are we missing time for other things too? Something seems wrong here.

Yes, it is very unhealthy to work such long hours and that is why doctors in hospitals do make mistakes a lot and is does compromise patient care.

I am afraid that I can't comment on the situation in the States, but in the UK junior doctors hours have been cut from about 90 hours a week or so to about 50 hours a week. However, this is still too much though. This means that nurses have taken over a lot of routine tasks that were performed by junior doctors.

Having worked as a nurse in London, England I also used to get very tired after working a 10 day stretch at times and you do have to be extra vigilant when caring for patients.

So yes, I think long hours can compromise patient care and that probably contributes to burn out of medical staff and why some doctors become alcoholics due to the stress and also breakdowns and marriage breakups.

4 hours of sleep was about the average for me...sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less!

Yea, that figures. Where did you work and what as?

If you're planning on becoming a doctor, then assume the following:

1) 4 years of undergraduate college work. You can pick any major but you have to take a year of physics, a year of biology, a year of inorganic chemistry, a year of organic chemistry, and all the requisite lab work. Along with this, most places prefer you take a year of introductory composition, a year of advanced English, and a year of calculus. All this in addition to the regular requirements for getting a Bachelor's degree. Further, it's expected that you work part time, preferrably in a clinic, hospital, or research lab. For most people, doing all of this will take 4 years. If you have a lot of AP credit from high school, take summer courses, and take a full load each semester, you can finish in 3 years. You also have to take the MCAT exam to appy to med school.

2) 4 years of med school. First 2 years are basic sciences, the second 2 years are your clinicals.

3) Residency. Most people have to do a minimum of 3 years in Medicine and if you specialize, you may need anywhere from 1-6 extra years. During residency expect to work 100-120 hours per week, stay overnight at least once a week, get one day off per month, and be paid less than $40,000 a year.

So the minimum is 11 years.

Yep, I asked my GP and he said he put in about 8 yrs all together, my Orthopedic Dr said he put in about 12 yrs including residency.

I know this is an old topic, but have you checked into becoming a physicians assistant??? you need 2-6 years of school to be a PA. you can do many things a doc can do under the supervision of an MD or DO.

Littledudesrock,

Instead of going to medical school, I chose to become a nurse practitioner. It requires a 4 year baccalaureate degree and 2-3 years of graduate work (2 if your bachelor's is in nursing, 3 if it's in something else.) No intership or residency is required.

Nurse practitioners function very much like doctors but the emphasis is on preventive care and patient education.

We're not paid quite as well as MDs, but the money is still pretty good. Unlike a PA, we practice under our own licenses.

I'm really glad I decided to become an NP; it's a great job. Besides the education is less exhausting and I didn't have to borrow as much money.

It does take close to 12 years.

4 years for an undergraduate degree. 4 years for your graduate/doctorate degree. 2 years of residency. 2 years of internship. Then, state exams, and you can then practice on your own.

Unless you specialize. Plan for another 2-4 years of internship in your specialty before you'll be recognized and can take the board exam for your specialty.

Just think an idiot who is good at basketball or football will make more in one year than a doctor will make his entire life.

As far as nursing, they are extemely underpaid for what they are required to do. There is a nursing shortage because the pay is not high enough for most people.

[This message has been edited by openseason (edited 02-10-2003).]

Ok, I am a medical student, so let me say how it is.

4 years of undergraduate education to get your B.A. or B.S.

4 years of medical school

3-12 years of post-graduate training (depending on what you want to do...if you want to do Family Practice, 3. Pediatric cardiac surgery, 10). During this time, you will be expected to work close to 80 hours a week and you will be given one day off per week. Maximum shift time has been limited to 24 hours at a stretch. The days of the 48 hour shift are over! http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/round.gif Having said that, it is hard work and it's difficult to do. Medical school requires a mental capacity that I didn't even realize I had.

Most people are 30 before they get their first "real job" (meaning after their post-graduate training).

If you want money quick, medicine is not the way to go. If you want a rewarding career in which you have the power to truly improve peoples' quality of life, then go for it.

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-Mike
Certified Mad Scientist

"90% of people are
caused by accident."