Ok here is a quick update first.

Feeling better, both from dizzies and cold, still not on Brandt Darhoff due to my cold issues, still with some mild blips during the day, and good hours too, same old...

Tidbits and Info I gathered, some old some new, some with perspective feel free to improve:

- After a vestibular injury you won't recover the lost function, ever, even if you feel all right, BUT, in all cases, even the worst, being complete bilateral lost of vestibular function the sole exception, you can recover in full, in all cases.

-On symptoms and compensation: Compensation is a multi-system process where propioceptive, visual, and balance issues are involved, where visual stuff is the most obvious of them all as our balance relies a lot on that system. We're often misled by weird issues that made us think we are having something new, or our condition is evolving(for good or bad), but in the end is all connected, and this symptoms are just showing that our brain is re-tuning all at once, maybe with a trial and error process, which will give us all kinds of weird issues through time.

- On BPPV: You can have one or more episodes during life, more so after a VN or any vestibular issue. It can be trickier to diagnose and could last longer than most people thin because of chronic compensation and incorrect diagnose. On the bright side, canalith repositioning maneuvers are effective practically in a 100% of the cases, even on the toughest one, where at most you have to repeat the dose, or have the 360 degree maneuver(which I'm not familiar with), but in the end, almost guaranteed, you'll be free of BPPV issues for real.

-On MAV: The trickiest of the bunch, it can mimic any other Vestibular issue, quite controllable, but under a trial and error treatment testing, and the key is, as it is in most vestibular issues, a correct dx.

-On Meniere's, similar stuff and long time prognosis: The problem with most cases here, including mine, is not how tough our dizzy issues are but how long have they been around with us. This is often associated to "tougher" vestibular issues like Meniere's Disease, BUT, you have to take in account that those kind of progressive conditions, practically 100% have to take a toll on your audition, giving you a noticeable(at least at some point) hearing loss. Same is to be said of other similar stuff where, something else(knock on wood everyone), like loss of movement or other CNS stuff(in MS or tumors) is going to show up sooner or later, so if it is not the case, you don't have to worry about this stuff.

- A combination: Finally, as I remember from my first post that hbep answered, you may have more than one condition, which not only will affect compensation and long time prognosis, but even a correct dx, so this and the lack of a precise dx, and it's proper treatment, is the main cause of most of our issues, dig in, try hard and push your doctors for answers, because, if we can pinpoint what do we really have, treatments are there for getting us to that 100% mark we all hope for.

Cheers every one.

- After a vestibular injury you won't recover the lost function, ever, even if you feel all right, BUT, in all cases, even the worst, being complete bilateral lost of vestibular function the sole exception, you can recover in full, in all cases.

-On symptoms and compensation: Compensation is a multi-system process where propioceptive, visual, and balance issues are involved, where visual stuff is the most obvious of them all as our balance relies a lot on that system. We're often misled by weird issues that made us think we are having something new, or our condition is evolving(for good or bad), but in the end is all connected, and this symptoms are just showing that our brain is re-tuning all at once, maybe with a trial and error process, which will give us all kinds of weird issues through time.


Stargrave
I think you have got this absolutely right. I was really puzzled by having more eye issues now, after more than 2 years, than I did at the beginning, while other symptoms like nausea and wobbly floor had 100% disappeared. It did feel to me that something else was going wrong but now I realise that it is just that bits of the system recover at different rates and at different times so the weird sensations change too. So I have worked even harder at my vrts and I am really seeing improvement. I sometimes think that it is a good thing that we don't know at the beginning what a long and hard road we are going to travel to get better.

Quite right dolly, curiously I got some new info from articles I read here and there, that could add a little bit something on this matter:

1. In some studies, it was observed that people with visual dependence, explained as a tendency to rely more on their visual input than on their propioceptive one, are more likely to have stronger and more lasting visual problems, including visual vertigo. This doesn't mean that they have a deficit from the start, but that they developed their balance system differently, so that's why recovery and symptoms could change a lot between different people.

It's also pointed out that patients with this visual dependence, that's obviously increased by a vestibular injury are more affected by visually challenging environments, than people without this prior dependence, even when some of the test subjects had bilateral vestibular issues, with no direct relation with anxiety(which was measured on similar levels on both groups), which is the main suspect of visual vertigo related stuff.

2. It's argued that treating these patients with visual motion desensitization, e.g. repeated optokinetic stimulation, should be beneficial, when some studies have proven this habituation method is actually helpful.

3. Vestibular issues can cause objective double vision, as it's been detected that one or both eyes could "cross" due to a physical deviation, which is caused by an attempt of the visual balance system to compensate for the vestibular deficit. The article didn't pointed out if people with prior visual dependence was more affected or not, but the point here is that objective double vision could be induced by a vestibular injury, even without anxiety involved.

I think that, in relation to specific conditions prior to our vestibular issues(visual dependence, migraine, etc.), some people is more susceptible to have a longer recovery time, with added symptoms and issues, than others, in the presence of a vestibular injury.

For this people(maybe that's us) recovery will take much more time, without extra conditions added(BPPV, anxiety, etc.), so when one or some of this junk hits too, we're in for a treat.

Finally(from another article), it's pointed out that most doctors don't pay much attention to any symptoms that are not actually the heavy spins(like my doctors), where little hiccups, or mild issues, are often discarded as not important, something that, for the article's writer, is a great mistake, as he mentions that paying attention to those tidbits and the patients' explanation about their dizziness, could give them the exact diagnose for a proper and often successful treatment.

It's also mentioned here that this medical sensibility is a must, because most of the dizziness tests(VNG, posturography, rotatory chair, etc.) are quite specific, as they cover just a part of the problem, and they're also often inconclusive.

sorry duplicate post!

Hi Star,

Nice to hear from you. Glad you are feeling better this week.

Interesting post in regards to Dolly's question. A friend I met on line in the UK with our problems just recently saw a new specialist after 3 years that basically said what you summarized in that she has relied on her eyes for her balance system too much and that is why she is still suffering from the visual dizziness (or goofy vision). I have to refer her to your post. She has started some taylored VRT so it will be interesting to see how she progresses.


"3. Vestibular issues can cause objective double vision, as it's been detected that one or both eyes could "cross" due to a physical deviation, which is caused by an attempt of the visual balance system to compensate for the vestibular deficit. The article didn't pointed out if people with prior visual dependence was more affected or not, but the point here is that objective double vision could be induced by a vestibular injury, even without anxiety involved."

This is what happened to me. It seems to be sorting itself out. No one knew what was causing the cross-eyed feeling until I went to an optomitrist who said it sounded like the first stages of double vision. Interesting information you posted.

Take care and hope you continue to do well. At least you are finally figuring out some of your triggers.

Gloria

Rather than double vision, I suppressed one of my eyes, as my brain was trying to compensate for the vestibular injury. However my eyes came up with a compensation that was only making things worse and was making VRTs impossible. It took retraining my eyes to work together before I could heal the vestibular system. I also did a lot of work to maximize my proprioceptive system throughout it all, through walking, yoga, etc.

When I had my appointment with the neurotologist in London last December one of the things they mentioned was that some people, not everyone, over-compensate with their eyes and they thought I was probably doing just that. They said they didn't know why this occured and they were running a research programme to investigate more. That was at the National Hospital for Neurology in London. I felt that my eyes weren't connected, that they were doing different things and I had a very strong sensation that they were doing too much work. I often felt that they were 'sticking' out too far. The improvement in the last 6 weeks has been huge. I have been on my computer for hours today and I have had no problem at all, I almost can't believe it.

I have a follow-up appointment in 8 weeks so I am going to talk more with them about this and I am still waiting for an appointment with their own vestibular therapists, so I will ask them about visual work.

A friend I met on line in the UK with our problems just recently saw a new specialist after 3 years that basically said what you summarized in that she has relied on her eyes for her balance system too much and that is why she is still suffering from the visual dizziness (or goofy vision). I have to refer her to your post. She has started some taylored VRT so it will be interesting to see how she progresses.




Gloria
Is there any chance you could find out where your online friend is going for her tailored vrt?
thanks

Dolly,

I'll get in touch with her and find out where she went. Will let you know when I hear from her.

:angel:
Gloria