Hi all,
Well as you know i lowered my dose of cip and then stopped taking it. First few days i felt ok,then it hit me........god i felt terrible,shakes,sweats,nausea the lot!! I have had to restart and plan to lower dose ALOT more slowly! As soon as i took half of that little white tablet, within hours i felt fine.The head zaps were killing me and they disappeared after 2 hours or so! Just makes you realise that medication really should be taken seriously and not just messed with.I have really learned the hard way and in future will take things so much more gradually! On a lighter note the propanolol seems to be helping and i am so much better than when all this junk started,just want to quit the meds,hate pumping my body with stuff! Suppose for now though that little pill is my saviour and will be around for a little while longer!
maria
x:)

Hi Maria,

Yes, withdrawal from Cip is not pleasant. I've been getting hammered by it for weeks now but things are getting easier. You must reduce the dose very slowly over weeks - maybe months. I've also added St Johns Wort to the mix plus magnesium and B vitamins. Since throwing in SJW, I've been feeling sooo much better. In fact, I'll be cutting the dose down more rapidly if this keeps going this well.

How much are you taking now?

Scott :cool:

Hi Scott,
Good to hear from you! Glad you are feeling better too!Yeah withdrawel was unbearable! If i was alone i maybe would of stuck it out, but with a toddler to look after,it just got tooo much for me. Im on 20 mg at the mo.Been feeling bit icky of late,doc has changed my BC pill now for 2nd time to see if that helps but it hasnt so far. She has put me on propanolol 80mg and wants to see how i go. Just recently though i have been feeling "poorly" thats the only way i can describe it. I have alot of aches and pains in my neck and shoulders too,could that be MAV related or just tension? I feel ok when sitting but when i walk about i feel disorientated and dizzy? is this familiar to you? You just get sick of battling this thing dont you?! Its even worse when people say "but you look ok" when inside you feel like crap! Glad the SJW is helping you. I would love to try it but it supposedly interferes with BC med?. Is it ok to take with cip,just on the info leaflet it has a caution about taking SJW and cip together? What dosage of cip are you on now? What symptoms are you dealing with at present? Wishing you a dizzy free day!
Maria
x

Hi Maria,

Sorry to hear you're not feeling so well. Knock on wood but I'm doing quite well lately since using all of these supplements. My mood is just infinitely more stable which is a real bonus even though I continue to be hit by herpes outbreaks.

>>> I have alot of aches and pains in my neck and shoulders too, could that be MAV related or just tension?

This is really interesting to me because I also have the same problem - and it all got 100X worse on Cipramil. And then I came across this in the literature:

Migraine with aura triggered by citalopram.
Neuropsychobiology. 55(2):121-2, 2007.

I'm still waiting for a copy of the full article so will let you know if there is anything good in it.

So I'm wondering if, on the one hand, Cipramil has been good in that it stopped the anxiety problem and the dizziness but on the other, it has made the migraine type symptoms - namely tension-type headache symptoms far worse. I know that since being on Cip, I have had a lot of new problems. More non-specific myalgia, mainly in the neck and shoulders, tons of mouth ulcers from ANY fruit apart from bananas, some weird allergic dermatitis around my mouth, flu-like symptoms for no reason and just more problems overall with food making me feel bad the next day.

It all seems to be better since dropping the dose. I'm now on about 7.5 mg and will sit here for about 2 weeks before dropping it to 5 mg. When you reduce, take it down by 8ths. It means cutting the tablets but it will make it bearable. Sit on each reduction for 2 weeks before moving on.

I'd say the other meds you've got happening might be making you feel rough at the moment. I couldn't handle propranolol at all ... I just felt so much more dizzy and unstable.

Yesterday I broke the rules and had a decaf coffee and a BLT at the local cafe with a friend. Both coffee and bacon are potentially bad news. Today I woke up with neck pain again. Figures. Back to clean eating today.

Keep me up-to-date on your Cip withdrawal.

Cheers ... Scott :cool:

ps SJW is OK as far as I know when an SSRI dose is relatively low and probably not a problem even on 20 mg. I found one study where they had migraine patients on both citalopram and amitriptyline. There were no problems with serotonin syndrome so really doubt SJW would be problematic. Perhaps you could try it when you get down to about 15 mg of Cip if you are concerned. Not sure about how it interacts with the pill.

Hi scott,
Interesting hey,regarding the neck pain?

I have an app booked with doc for the 10th april so will discuss the introduction of SJW also,cant hurt can it? She is also reveiwing my propanolol dosage,mayne increase it? Its all just trial and error really!
Coffee is so irrisistable! but by hell you pay for it! Hope you enjoyed every last mouthfull!

Will keep you posted with the cip withdrawel!

maria
x

Hi Maria,

You're right - I enjoyed every last mouthful as though it were my last meal on earth. Savoured every bit. Of course today my head is starting to ache and I haven't even had a shower yet which will really crank up the pain. Oh well, it was worth it for one bad day.

Your doc will likely say not to take SJW while on Cip but I think it's ok if you use it while you are lowering the dose. Just spoke to a naturopath around the corner and she recommended using 5HTP first while reducing and then SJW later.

S :cool:

hi,
what is 5HTP?
m

Hi M,

5-Hydroxytryptophan or 5-HTP is a naturally-occurring amino acid, a precursor to the neurotransmitter serotonin and an intermediate in tryptophan metabolism. It is marketed in the United States and other countries as a dietary supplement for use as an antidepressant, appetite suppressant, and sleep aid.

Wanted to ask you if the neck and shoulder pain you are experiencing has gotten worse on citalopram? Was it there before you started the med? Does the neck pain give you tension-type headaches (sore behind the eyes, band of pain around the head)? The neck pain I get - worse after hot water hits my skin - feels like there are pins stuck in my neck right at the back ... sort of a burning pain sometimes.

S

Hi scott!
I would say the pain is about the same since starting cip. I get a pressure in the base of my skull just above the neck and i get what feels like jaw ache too. I have a pain just on the temple near my right eye,it is always the right side for some reason? Its the pressure feeling that is the worst its so annoying!Do you have pain everyday or is it more like uncomfortableness? My main symptom is spacey head this really upsets me as i feel so odd with it. Some times it goes in the day,usually tea time on a eve. I try to ignore it but its always there! When i first started the propanolol at 80mg all my symptoms vanished and i felt on top of the world,bot about 10 ten days later they started coming back? any ideas? Will speak with doc on the 10th,see if she can enlighten me!
hoping you have had a dizzy free day!

hi guys hoping you don't mind me jumping in. it's so weird came on to post a thread to ask Scott a question, saw this post from Maria, started reading it, coz it was of interest and Scot answered the question i was about to ask. Namely what he knew/felt about 5 HTP. I'm presuming, Scott that you have not tried it?? only heard about it? i'm interested to know if anybody here has had any side effects. i have now officialy been off Cip for 1 month and all is going well. (bar that initial week where thankfully you told me to keep calm) i have subsequently had an eye op which has kept my mind busy on mainly that. but i must tell you (she says holding her breath) that my dizzies have been a LOT better. i'm just finding i feel bouts of 'downness' not depression but just a bit blue. hence i wondered if you had any experience with 5HTP.

on to the neck and back pain. everything that both of you described i get and still do. it drives me batty. i've tried everything but it never go's away. so please any suggestions or if you find any solutions please please please share.

thanks for listening

Ashley
x

Ashley--

I hope you don't mind me jumping in now, but I have been taking 5htp for a few weeks, so I thought I'd share my experience. I will also post later once I've had more time with this supplement. Sometimes it's hard to know how one feels, when you've been dizzy so long!

I have been taking 25 mg of 5htp at night. 50 to 100 mg daily is recommended in general. Main thing I noticed almost right away: better night's sleep. Since onset of dizziness, I've been waking every 2 or so hours and then waking very early...no ability to doze as in the past. 5htp is great for sleep and reducing anxiety.

I have also been extremely depressed with this illness (VN? MAV? started Dec. 1). First B vitamins and then this 5htp have done wonders for me, in the sense of pulling me back to at least feeling OK--I'd love to feel super happy, but everything in good time! :) 5htp has been studied in clinical trials and has very few, if any, side effects. (I've had no side effects other than feeling a little flushed and anxious briefly the first time I took 50 mg...I cut back to 25 and now have moved up closer to 50. Most people have no side effects at all.)

I also think my dizziness has been slightly reduced since I started taking the 5htp. Even my PMS time, normally a really hard time for me during this dizzy illness, is going better with this 5htp.

If you do decide to take it, I'd love to hear about your experience. I'm also looking into SAMe, which is apparently great for mood as well.

--Violet

Hi Violet

great to "meet" you. am so glad you jumped in. I love what you said about getting a good nights sleep because i must say since stopping cipralex i do miss my sleep. Also the bit about feeling better over your cycle as that's also the time i feel my worst. you have put a lot of my fears to rest. think i will also give it a bash, but slowly and see how it go's. please keep me posted on your progress and i will do the same. I'm also taking magnesium and the omega's.

Hi Guys,

Nope, I've never taken 5HTP but it's on the list if necessary. At the moment I'm doing *really* well on the current supplements plus St Johns Wort (SJW). So here's what I'm doing and since starting this have been consistently stable. Very little dizziness but more importantly, my emotional stability is normal - ie, stable like it was 4.5 years ago. I feel really happy with no lows (which were coming nearly every day for hours at a time). Every morning I have the following:

SJW: don't know the dose off hand but it's up there with what was used in positive clinical trials in the British Medical Journal and others (where it was better than Paxil). The SJW is from a German company and not the junk you see on the supermarket shelf. This one can only be dispensed by a naturopath.

Ultra Muscleze: This is a magnesium and vitamin B cocktail + some other goodies too. I throw 5 grams of the powder into a cup of water.

Lecithin: Two capsules which is supposed to make SSRI withdrawal easier.

Vitamin C: 1000 mg

Fish Oil: Two capsules also from a top company with high levels of eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA).

And today I am on just 1/3 Cipramil. If this keeps going this well, I'll be off of it in about 5 weeks. Glad you're doing well off the Cip amlp - good job.

Best ... Scott :cool:

Scott--

I'm very glad to hear that the SJW has been so helpful to you! I am interested in that supplement as well. It's interesting what you say about where one gets these supplements. I've been wondering about that. I don't know much about naturopaths, but I'm interested in them. The ones near me are quite expensive, but I've looked into it a bit.

Do you think it's impossible to get good quality supplements at local natural foods stores? I've been checking labels for some kind of quality control, but as I said I don't know too much about it yet...I've been buying from Whole Foods, which is a large natural foods store in the States.

--Violet

Scott:

Keep on top of it and keep doing everything.. was stable off the medication for 6 to 9 months then boom something triggered me back.... Probably the METS collapse last year LOL

I am much more stable now as high as 95% some days but still get the days where I get mild nausea but just brush it off as I'll explain

I do take a lot of suppliments and do a lot of alternaive stuff as well

Magnesium 3 300 mg's a day
Omege 3 Pharmacutical Grade 3 times a day high EPA DHA probably like 1000
B2 100 mg's 2 times a day
COQ10 Pharmasutical grade (expensive) 1 600 mg a day

I still take my Zoloft 100 mg's , Verapamil 180 Mg's, Klonopin .50 at night for bed

If I remain stable I will come off the Klonopin

I also go to a chiro and accupuncture 1 time a week
I went for biofeedback training which has helped me a lot emotionally. Helped realize it is normal and ok to have ups and downs with the chronic condition we have. It is completely normal and I am still ok . This eases my anxiety where I am not constantly analyzing everthing I do and eat . It puts pressure on yourself as you think why you feel this way certain days and that results in anxiety
It involves meditation every night 15 minutes

Best of luck on everything you are on. I will ask my doctor about the 5 htp at the next monthly support group. He is not against anything alternative and everything I do he approves .

Violet:

If your in NYC Dr Newman is in NYC at St Luke Roosevelt Headache institute. He is the director

Howie

Thank you, Howie!

--Violet

Violet:

I am not allowed to have any off board contact as it is a rule on the board. But for your own use... Dr Newman runs a MAV support group at St Lukes once a month with himself other doctors and speakers. I think this month he is going to have a Bio Feedback Specialist that I see as a guess speaker and an Accupuncturist.

Usually 15 to 25 people show up

Howie--

Thank you so much for this information! I will look into this further...I'm still trying to figure out what I have, but it's still early in the dizzy game (4 months for me). No doubt I'm in some kind of denial, but I'm exploring all the options. I keep being surprised by all the things I'm learning about migraine! The variety of symptoms, and the degree of debilitation, is quite remarkable.

Again, thank you for this recommendation. It's very good to know about the support systems in place for this kind of thing.

--Violet

Hi Guys,

Wow, am I ever getting trashed by this today. This is easily the most dizziness and instability I've had for about a year. Yesterday I went on an all-day hike which was a moderate work out but nothing too tough. I was tired at the end of it all. Then we all went back to a friend's place where he had put out all sorts of snack foods – like corn chips, dips and these pre-bought asian spring roll things. I was so starving I ate some of it all. When I woke this morning, I had heavy flu-like symptoms going on. Once at work, the dizzy episode from hell started and it's still going on now. Valium time.

So migraine-triggering food plus exercise plus low on Cip = attack.

I hope I can cut through this. No doubt the small dose of cipramil is letting this thing do whatever it likes now. It seems like I'm so close to dropping cipramil but then this hits with so much strength ... it's freakin me out a bit. How much do I hate this condition?

Scott :dizzy: