I am such a pain in the butt. I have yet another question for y'all...I swear, I have no idea what I am doing here...

As I have told y'all, daddy lives next door to us in duplexes. It's working ok for now, but there is a new dilemma. Daddy never like kids. He didn't like me, or my brother. He certainly never liked any of my four children, and was not a happy grandpa. Fact is - he does not like children. Well, I have a 12 yr old that he has addressed as "You little SOB", but our son is "in on it" and knows that grandpa doesn't mean it, and therefore does not internalize it. I kinda keep our son away from grandpa. But the poor neighbor children...

We have about six children on our block under the age of twelve. Nice kids, too. Not troublesome or loud...just good kids. Well, daddy is positively ugly to them. Yells at them, curses sometimes, and although I have all the parents apprised of the situation, and they are not angry with him, I am losing my patience with trying to keep him simmered down. Daddy actually SMACKED one of them (a boy, aged 10) on the noggin with a rolled up newspaper - playing, daddy said, but I doubt it - and I can't let daddy out of my sight when we are outside.

One set of 3 children, ages 11, 10 and 7 (nicest kids I have ever met) always speak to daddy, are polite and sweet, and tonight he went clear OFF on the littlest one for touching something of daddy's that was on the brick border. Poor little guy. Daddy was so mad that the little boy didn't say "sorry" but rather just took off. I told daddy that the child was afraid of him because he is ornery to him. I thought that would shock daddy. It did not. Made him madder.

So, here's my question - knowing that daddy is a "toddler" at this time in his life (which ever one of you told me that changed my life, by the way), how can I convince him to play nice? He simply cannot be mean to people. Should I just keep daddy in? Give him time out (I am serious - but it sounds funny)? Just wait for the day someone calls the cops on the guy?

Any advice?

Thanks, y'all. I don't know what I'd do without you...

...deb :o

Oh oh! This is bad news. I think it is already time for your Dad to be in a safe place. Safe for himself and for the people around him.

We had a member on this Board who took care of a loved one in her home with 3 children around 10 to 15 years old. The Dementia victim was mean to the kids, and one of our member's kids wound up becoming mentally ill from the ordeal.

You have to protect HIM from the world, and the world from him. I highly suggest moving him to a place where they know exactly how to deal with dementia.

There are legal consequences as well - hitting someone else's child is a criminal offense. Just like many peple here have had to take away their loved one's car or guns to prevent legal and moral consequences, you may have to remove your dad from childen...

May I add one strange thing. Those of us who end up taking care of our parents are so often 'unloved' or somehow neglected children ourselves. What are we trying to do, make our parent love us now, finally, by sacrificing our whole lives to their Dementia care? They never do thank us, it is too late, they cannot. I was the unwanted child in my family -- yet I gave up 5 years of my life for Mom, and once she was settled in the nursing home she had no memory of all those years. To put it very bluntly, I could have spared myself all that effort and all that pain. Mom's favorite was - you guessed it - the far off daughter who never lifted a finger for her in her old age. Is there some psychological pattern here --- or am I jst too tired to think straight?

Love,
Martha

HI there. I've been reading your thread with interest.

I'm the member who's family has been damaged by caring for a parent. Don't get me wrong, pre-dementia, my charge was a beautiful loving woman who loved kids, and especially the one who now suffers mental health issues (schizophrenia and bi-polar now). If anything, pre-dementia, she favoured him as he was the only grandson out of 11 granddaughters. This disease has destroyed him. He is no longer the gentle child we knew and loved. He is angry, suicidal, destructive, self mutilating and continuing self punishment (he's currently going through court). I blame it all on putting him in a situation he couldn't cope with although at the time, I (and he) believed we were doing the right thing.

When her dementia hit the 'nasty' stage, she would pull my kids aside and hit them. accuse them of stealing her stuff (or simply moving it). My kids are good kids and respect other peoples stuff and wouldn't, in a pink fit, touch her stuff, especially when they knew the consequences!!!

All in all, my ex-charge became intolerant of ANYBODY touching ANYTHING that she believed belonged to her. The Mail man, the ambulance officers (her husband was also my charge and was ill with lung disease and so medical attention was often needed on an emergency basis) and there was NOTHING we could do, because in her day-to-day living, she was faced with so many challenges, so many choices, so many options, it was all simply too much for her so in order to make herself understand these emotions, she became obsessive.

It's sounding like Daddy didn't like kids to start with and his dementia has exacerbated that behaviour. He will not get over it and you can't punish him as a toddler, because he can't learn how to be socially acceptable anymore. His world is all about him and how he can make himself feel better. He needs to feel in control of *anything* and will do anything (and I mean anything, even obviously hitting strange children) to give himself that feeling of being in control.

Sorry if I sound like I'm rambling, but when kids are involved, your own or others, I am the protector of the child. Whether they understand the disease or not, it DOES AFFECT THEM. Maybe not now, maybe not this year, but it DOES affect them.

I have to kick in here too. While my situation does not exclusively involve abuse of children, it has evolved to include abuse of children, neighbours, people of a particular ethic origin, general passers-by, animals, and anybody who drives down my SIL's street!!! THAT was finally the turning point for our psychogeriatric services putting her into a secure facility (after I had been begging them to do so for four years).

We managed to keep SIL's day-to-day needs met for a very long time, much as you are doing, even though it was plainly obvious that it was never a sustainable situation, and caused a lot of damage to those helping her (and to her in terms of stress).

Dear, sweet Gemini has and is going through much worse in terms of the impact her attempt to help has had on her family. In my case I have left my DH largely because of the impact this situation had on my health (both physical and mental) and our lack of relationship outside of it revolving around caring for SIL.

I really picked up in your original post that you were worried about your father and your son, but you didn't once mention your husband. Please don't misunderstand this, I am sure he is high on your priority list, but as someone else has said you are doing three full-time jobs here - something has to give and I'm guessing you don't want that to be your marriage :-)

What I'm trying to say, very clumsily, is that I think your father's condition has crossed a line in terms of him living in the community. One consideration is the impact his illness is having on your family, another is the impact his illness is having on the community - and I'm hearing alarm bells on both fronts.

The place that my SIL is in now is SO much better equipped to handle her condition in a kind and caring way, 24/7, than anything we could manage. And she is surpisingly handling the transition pretty well.

love, Georgie

Thank you, my new friends. I appreciate your input and I am in deep thought about it.

I think on other threads I have said this, but it merits saying again. Dad is 95% delightfully demented. But I get nervous about the other 05%. I never know when there will be inappropriate conversation (our oldest daughter is dating a man of a different ethnicity - we love him, and she loves him, and he comes over fairly often - and I keep dad away for the most part), feelings hurt...I went to bed last night at 1 am and it's 6:30 am now, and I am up. This whole situation is scaring me, as I KNOW the last thing daddy wants is to not live here, and my DH and I (my DH, by the way, is a saint) want to have him here, but I am ever so tired of running interference for dad. Then, I actually wonder if I am imagining some of it - maybe daddy's not that bad. I asked my DH last night if HE thinks daddy should be in an assisted living...he said that he has told me that for the last 6 months. I don't remember that; probably because I didn't want to hear it.

Yes, there have been occasions where my husband has had quite enough of my attention to daddy. There have been disagreements, and periods of time that my DH has been neglected. Of course it dents away at my marriage. If my DH were not who he is, we would not have made it this far. And it certainly merits my attention. I guess I never thought of the impact this whole thing makes on my husband and son. I need to think some more.

Until then, I have an appointment with a home health care agency tomorrow at 3:30. That will be a welcome respite for me, and a good way to get daddy used to someone else. He is gonna have a fit. I am blindsiding him with this, and he is not going to appreciate it. Not that I really care - it's time.

Thank you all for your responses. I can see that I have a bigger handful than I thought. And it's time, probably, to start looking at some other options if for no other reason than my immediate family.

So sad. :(

...deb

Then, I actually wonder if I am imagining some of it - maybe daddy's not that bad. I asked my DH last night if HE thinks daddy should be in an assisted living...he said that he has told me that for the last 6 months. I don't remember that; probably because I didn't want to hear it.

I know in my Mom's case, the AL folks had to tell us several times that "hey, your Mom needs to go into the hospital to have her meds adjusted" or "she would really be happier in our AD building." I didn't want to hear any of that. It finally sunk in when a home health nurse (psych nurse) said it a different way. We finally succumbed and moved her to the AD building. She is much happier.

A bit of a different situation for you, but, similarly, my mom was acting out in ways that were making the other AL residents uncomfortable. I wanted to rationalize that it wasn't THAT bad. I have really had blinders on at several points in this journey.

[COLOR="Navy"]Dear dear deb,

Let me ask you some questions. Can you:
-Offer your father 24/7 monitored skilled licensed nursing care?
[-Are you certified to perform CPR?
-can you offer him daily craft activities that are geared for his current physical level?
-can you take him on planned activities to local areas that will keep him stimulated?
-can you do "do you remember" sessions that help stimulate that area of the brain for the time that he is currently "living in?"
-can you offer him physical therapy to help keep him mobile and moving?
-can you maintain and keep his diet including extra caloric intact?
-can you offer 24/7 skilled care including night watch, who will also clean up the urine and poo?
-are you licensed to dispense meds?

This is just the tip of what a good NH is going to provide for your dad. Deb, if your Dad is starting to hit children, you have gone from dealing with a troublesome adult, to a crisis problem. You can't let this continue. Your father is far stronger than a child and can do serious damage to young 'un.I would hate to have something happen to a child because you had refured to accept the fact that your father needed to be someplace besides at home with you. Daddy is at the point where he needs 24/7 care.

The fact that he doesn't like children may be doing serious emotional damage to your own son. Don't risk this any longer. Don't risk losing your family, your hubby, your son. You dad is in the grip of this horrid disease and he is only getting worse. His anger will escalate and one day he may explode for no good reason and you may not be around but some small child or your son may be. And that may not be good........

we're here for you deb..and you are in my prayers..... /COLOR]

It is sad that this disease exist and what it does to the patient and the family. It is our job to make the best of what we are given, not do it all. I will say this again. I was one that was determined to keep my parents at home. The super woman in me felt anything was possible if you worked long enough and hard enough to get it done. It took some hard knocks from the wonderful people here to turn my head around but.....

I just talked to my Mom on the phone. The same Mom that made me promise I would never put her or Dad in a "home" and laid in the yard crying as she yelled she would rather be dead. After many stumbling blocks and medication adjustments. She was laughing, talking to a visitor, and getting ready to go eat lunch in a newly decorated dining room. The med tech walked in while I was on the phone and they received the proper medication at the right time before they went down to lunch and an activity in the court yard afterwards. Her abilities have no improved but her sense of well being has.

Yes, it will take adjustment both on your Dad's part and on your part. He will probably be angry with you and throw a fit at first. It is also difficult to give up that control. The control you get from being the primary care giver. Nobody can do it as well as you can. That was a big issue for me. I thought I could do it all and wanted to do it for my parents. Amazingly there are many professionals in a facility that are trained to do this and can go home at night and refresh. I now realize that I could not effectively do what it takes 10 people to do at the facility. To be honest, Mom and Dad are getting much better care now then they were at home. I couldn't do the PT that Mom needed after her fall. I didn't have an X-ray machine to roll in and diagnose Mom's pneumonia. I don't have a RN on call at all times or a physician in the building three days a week. Taking them out once a week and providing stimulating activities for them daily was beyond my capability. Just keeping up with their meds was taxing. Not to mention the pleasure Mom gets from seeing those same faces stop by her room throught the day. Yes, they are staff but they are also now considered friends. My Mom's laughter today said it all.

You never know when something is going to go off in the demented brain and you are not going to be able to stop it. Consider yourself lucky that no child has been hurt, charges files, or parents angry. One smack and your dad could be carried off in handcuffs. Then you will have no choices.

Change is not easy but nessary. I will keep you both in my thoughts and prayers.....

Love, deb