My MRI checked out ok. However I'm very disappointed in my recent labs.

Taken on 5/9/2008

testosterone free and total 295 250-1100 ng/dl (down from april)
testosterone, free percent 1.35 L 1.50-220%
free testosterone 39.8 35.0-155.00 (up)

My free testosterone is up but my total is down compared to my blood work listed below on 4/16/2008. I wasn't taking anything then but I'm on 5g of gel each day and just started HCG last week. I admit I do feel a little better and I thought my numbers would be much higher. I was told it does take time but how much time. About a year ago I was on Androgel for about a month and retested and my total T back then was over 800. Thats why I'm in shock this time around. Should I go ahead and request injections?

Labs from 4/16/2008


Total T 334 range 250-1100
Free T 33.4 L range 46.0-224.0
BioAv T 70.2 L range 110.0-575
SHGB 44 range 9-45
FSH 1.5 L range 1.6-8.0
LH 2.7 range 1.5-9.3
T-4, free 1.1 range 0.8-1.8

You indicate that your free T is up from the 4-16 tests, but I notice the
range given is different from the one to the other. The earlier 4-16 range
is shown as 46-224 whereas the 5-9 range for free T is given as 35-155.
Were the tests conducted by different labs? The very low LH and FSH
sure make it look as if your pituitary is not doing its job. Especially since
you have only recently begun TRT. Did they run a prolactin test also?
I'll be interested in reading HF's analysis of those numbers. Also estrogen
and estradiol test results might shine some light on the source of so many
low numbers. MRI's don't always pick up pit problems.

I'm not clear on when you started the androgel in relation to the two tests above. It was after the first one but before the second one? Your LH is pretty low and you appear to be secondary. The free T numbers can't really be compared. They either used a different test method or it was a different lab or both. Either way though free T is too low.

What doctor do you have that is prescribing androgel and HCG?

I have my dates mixed up. 4/16/08 is when I posted my original numbers but I had the blood work done in late March and began treatment at the beginning of April. My current numbers I just posted "from May" are results from me being on TRT for about 6-7 weeks on the Gel. I just started on HCG last week on my own with Andogel...self treating.

I used the same lab and I notice that to the ranges are differnet...kinda odd.

I did have an MRI...no tumor. According to my Endo having a tumor is very low...about 6 percent.
Estradiol was good 16. Prolactin well within range.

I'm hopimg the HCG will help and I will self retest my blood work in July.

Thanks for responding

The 5g of androgel didn't help much then. Maybe adding the HCG will do the trick. If not you will need to go to 10g of androgel plus the HCG. What dose of HCG are you taking? I seem to remember you had the dose right from old posts but just checking.

Androgel is good for keeping estradiol down, but HCG may bring it up....so check that at some point.

Oh....you may need to stop the HCG to get your doctor to up the androgel. I mean lets say it gets you up to 450....he may say that's good enough even if you don't feel good.

I have my dates mixed up. 4/16/08 is when I posted my original numbers but I had the blood work done in late March and began treatment at the beginning of April. My current numbers I just posted "from May" are results from me being on TRT for about 6-7 weeks on the Gel. I just started on HCG last week on my own with Andogel...self treating.

I used the same lab and I notice that to the ranges are differnet...kinda odd.

I did have an MRI...no tumor. According to my Endo having a tumor is very low...about 6 percent.
Estradiol was good 16. Prolactin well within range.

I'm hopimg the HCG will help and I will self retest my blood work in July.

Thanks for responding

With low testosterone and low LH and FSH the primary problem is with your pituitary gland. Some times it just stops working properly. In that case, HCG will probably work fine. However, you have to watch for signs of other pituitary hormones disappearing, especially your adrenal and thyroid. The loss of those will produce numerous symptoms including fatigue, depression and weight gain.

With low testosterone and low LH and FSH the primary problem is with your pituitary gland. Some times it just stops working properly. In that case, HCG will probably work fine. However, you have to watch for signs of other pituitary hormones disappearing, especially your adrenal and thyroid. The loss of those will produce numerous symptoms including fatigue, depression and weight gain.


Orion...Are you saying that HCG can cause these other symptoms? If so this would give me second thoughts. I been reading on other boards on HCG and get different opinions. Some want to avoid it and others find it a great.

Hayfarmer.. i got a script from someone else for HCG, not the same doctor. I was starting to feel better but the same symptoms I had to begin with came back. I talked to my doctor the other day and he said my new levels were fine even though they were lower and check back in 6 months. I found a different doctor (through a friend) that would give me injections instead of the gel. In your opinion should i look to increase the gel or go with injections. I know both have advantages and disadvantages.

I meant to ad I was starting with 200IUs 3 times a week but hadn't notice any difference at all. Does it take time?

You are not going to feel much of the benefits of the HCG if your total T is still in the 300's. You could try increasing HCG to 300 iu , three times a week.

As for shots versus gel, I prefer the shots. For one, it is easier since I only have to take it once a week.....less messy too. In general the gel will increase DHT more, but estradiol less. So if you have a hair loss issue, go for the shots. If you have high estradiol go for the gel. If you have neither problem, pick whichever you prefer. But you will be able to get T high, easier with shots over gel.

Orion...Are you saying that HCG can cause these other symptoms? .


No, HCG is quite safe.

If the source of your low testosterone is a lack of testicle function, then HCG will do little or nothing. If the source is pituitary then HCG should work the same way your pituitary gland used to work.

Orion is right. I mistated. What I meant to say was if your total T is 300's you are not going to feel good. Either you need to up the dose of HCG, or the dose of T replacement, or both. In my case the HCG alone does not get my T high enough, but I still feel great benefit from it. I combine it with T shots. For many men HCG is all they need to get T back up to normal.