I used to be on this board about a year ago...DH had been on Lipitor 10 mg. per day for 2 years and was in awful shape...I was doing all in my power to help him. I am a now retired medical professional.
I read all the posts by Arkie6 and Oldguy and did everything they suggested...very low carb diet, no veg. oils, the BHT, etc. (do the search with the search engine on this site) IT WORKS! Really. Don't just count carbs... go by the glycemic index.
You may THINK that the food is boring...it is not what with all the low carbs recipe sites on the web, we eat like royality!! Chocolate candy, cheesecakes, cherry pie toppings, .. I could go on and on... you will have to cook.
We have both lost 20+ lbs. each, and feel fantastic! We are going to be eating like this for the rest of our lives.
I have been doing research with a PhD. in food science.. she eats this way too for the same reason. She is now taking BHT also. It's NOT the numbers on your lipid panels, it's wheither the fatty acids are oxidized or not (we quit the lipid panel thingy months ago. You can't live your life by the numbers on a slip of paper)...cut out the carbs and high glycemic foods and your numbers will get better. Watch the maltodextrin in foods and artifical sweeteners like Splenda for home use. The maltodextrin has a much higher rating than even sugar.

Sweetener Glycemic Index

Xylitol* 7.0
Crystalline Fructose* 23.0
Organic Agave Nectar** 10.0
High Fructose Corn Syrup 62.3
Sucrose 65.0
Honey 73.0
Glucose 97.0
Maltodextrin 105.0
Maltose 105.0

The pure sucralose used in sugar free foods is fine... it's just the maltodextrin in the boxed Splenda and Sugar Twin that is not good and causes a insulin rise that triggers higher triglicerides.

I hope that this helps some of you who are "searching" like I was this time last year. Moderation doesn't work ... you just go for it whole hog ... really. (We have BBQ all th' time.)

Think on this..the TV adds for Lipitor state in small print right there on the screen... "Lipitor has not shown to be effective in preventing heart attacks or cardiovascular disease." It will lower those fatty acids...the lower numbers don't mean a thing... it's wheither they are oxidized or not.
Please... I beg those of you who can get past the 'brain washing" of Low and Fat Free diets...read all that these two fine men have posted here... they are correct! BHT is th' way!
In case Oldguy hasn't posted lately... I met him and his wife last year... (she is beautiful inside and out... no wonder he works all the time researching to save her..) Two years ago she had her 2nd stint put in... and the docs told her that she had 3 months to live...go home and get herself ready to go. She couldn't even walk then. I talked to her on the phone 3 weeks ago and she was on a ladder outside washing her shudders!!!! She was laughing like crazy!!! She also dances around her livingroom... I joined her... girl party thingy ... Heck at 50+ you can do as you please!! WE have reason to celebrate!! You can too.

We don't call this a diet ... it's a way of eating...a way of life. We aren't deprived at all. (we may be depraved but not deprived!!)
And no, this isn't Adkins! And no, we don't eat those awful bars or drink that terrible mix... I bake with whey protein tho...works great.
Email me at [removed] if you have questions.

[...as per the board guidelines, no email addresses please. Thank you.]

[This message has been edited by moderator2 (edited 06-18-2002).]

Congratulations , good to hear some success stories once in awhile .

YEP! It's wheither the lipids are oxidized or not! BHT is the strongest antioxident out there! http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif
Also, veg. oils oxidized much faster and at a lower temp than animal fat. Consider the temp of your body (98.6)...if you kept your bottle of veg. oil at this temp in your kitchen, it would be rancid in no time.. it oxidizes. Think how it oxidizes when you heat it to cook with it.

[This message has been edited by moderator2 (edited 06-19-2002).]

Hey smag, how the heck are ya???? http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif So glad to see you post and GREAT on the news of feeling so great. I had a computer crash a few months ago and lost alot of addy's etc. but I think I remember yours, if not, someone might get a very silly email!! LOL

We miss U here and especially Old Guy, for goodness sakes tell him I said HI with a big hug to him and the wife. Glad to hear she is doing so great, as I do remember when she was so very very ill. U take care, I'll try to get an email off later to you. I never use those sweetener things, just have gotten so use to my coffee now without any sugar I can't stand the taste with it now! http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Have a wonderful day, love to all, and naturally, keep up the great work!! http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/wave.gif JJ

Great to read your post. My wife and I got off the carbs/trans fats/veg oils last year and will never go back. Ones life certainly improves with this WOE.

Hi there, JJ!!! Great to "see" you too!!!
When I finally tracked Oldguy down he was only about 45 mins. away from us!! Felt like we had known them forevah!!!
Hunter44... does everyone think you are just nuts for this WOE? DH's family is SURE that I, personally, am murdering their beloved son... I MUST be after his insurance!!
I must confess that DH has taken 3 steps forward and 2 steps backward in this recovery time from taking that ^*(&*(* Lipitor for 2 years and then Zocor for two weeks which increased his "non existant side effects" 10 fold!! It's been sloooow...it's been a roller coaster ride for sure!! But he is doing so good now!! Not 100% but the improvement has been dramatic to say the least!! He looks and acts like a 30 year old at times!! I LOVE it!
I remember when I first started learning here...when I found out how bad the Low and Fat Free diets were and about the veg. oil... I promise you, it was like my brain had an explosion... suddenly, I could "see" it!! I actually gasped as the wool was lifted from my eyes!!!!! Swimming against the current isn't easy...but it saved my DH, our marriage, and THAT was the main thing!!
You can only TRY to tell folks about this... most all just ignore you... it sounds so weird! But it works! Love that BHT and selenium!! Love all the folks on this board who helped me during the "Lipitor Panic Time"!!!
God does answer prayer!!!!!!
Blessings to all of you...to the "seekers" and the "helpers". The answers are all here!!!! Thank you!!! ((((hugs))))

Oh, forgot to add.. within the first week of this WOE no more heart burn or acid reflux... we both had it so bad we ate Tums by th' bucket and took prescription meds for it too!! Just one more perk from this WOE!!
I no longer need synthroid or any other meds for my hypothyroidism... came off that too. AND my atrial fribs stopped tooo!!!!! Not bragging.. just the unvarnished truth....I am 60...folks now think I am my 34 year old DD's sister. It's amazing !!!!!! http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif


[This message has been edited by smag16 (edited 06-18-2002).]

Hello, That's great! What is a typical menu for your day? It sounds a little confusing to me. I've heard of the gylc.index, but never really looked at it.

------------------
Magpie

Please email me at

[removed - Board Guidelines - No contact information]

[This message has been edited by moderator2 (edited 06-19-2002).]

It is easier to tell you what we don't eat than what we do eat.
Basically, we don't eat anything white except for cream cheese and cream... th' real stuff.
We don't use veg. oils...we do use grapeseed oil and olive oil that I added BHT to when I opened it. 1000mg. per 1 pint.
We don't eat high glycemic friut...like oranges or grapes...once a week we may eat a bananna or some pineapple... mostly we eat strawberries, blueberries, and cherries. (http://www.mendosa.com/gilists.htm) This is one of many glycemic lists on the net.

We don't eat sugar, fructose, honey, anything with maltodextrin in it. We DO comsume products with sucralose in them. If it says Splenda sweetened, it's OK becasue they just use the pure sucralose... it's the Splenda in packets and the box that has the maltodextrin in it.
We DO use maltitol, xylitol, and pure sucralose ( measured by the litteral pinch...1/4 tsp. sweetens 1 gallon of tea equal to 1 1/2 cups of sugar. ) This sucralose is very hard to find!!!!

There are many sites on the web to get LC foods and SF foods. Use a search engine and they are everywhere. There are support groups for this WOE too. My personal favorite is [removed - Posting Policy - No Free Advertising - please do not list other boards here.]

We post all kinds of wonderful recipes that are legal and delicious...There are many books on this subject... I did not read them... just went by what I found on this BB.
The two of us can go through 4 doz. eggs a week...a gallon of heavy cream... always have at least 8 packs of cream cheese (8 oz. size) in the frig...5-6 lbs. of bacon a week.... 4 heads of lettuce per week...veggies by the bushel.... 1 lb. of butter a week... beef, chicken, fish, seafood, pork, baked, fried, boiled, grilled, broiled, crock potted, any way you can think of fixing it.
We eat lots of "Sweets"...home made SF cheese cake with Lucky Leaf No Sugar Added Cherry Pie Filling on top...to die for!! We have Ice cream... home made ..vanilla, chocolate, strawberry. Also SF yogurt frozen and made into ice cream. Cakes and brownies. All LC and SF!!! Many of my friends don't know they are eating LC and SF. We have strawberry short cake.... yep, with real SF whipped cream piles of it.
I tell you ... we eat WELL!!!
Now with all there is left to eat, think of all the combinations you can make... forget the Fat Free and Low Fat tastless things you've been trying to gulp down and be satisfied with for years.. all you did was gain weight and cut down on one of the few pleasures left in life!!
I even make our SF ketchup that I'll just bet you couldn't tell from Heinz..from that I make cocktail sauce for seafood and mixed with my homemade mayo (made with grapeseed oil) and SF diced pickles I have 1000 Island Dressing. The mayo makes chicken, tuna, egg salad.
I use nuts in a thousand ways...crust for anything that called for graham crackers...even made a Lemon COndensed Milk Pie last week... DH ate himself silly on that one. We have a dessert every night!!
Yes, we lost weight eating like pigs!! And yes, we do go out to eat...we take condiments in a tiny ice chest with us...no baked potatoes, order extra veggies instead. Order grilled and broiled meats.
DH just came in and I've got to start supper...will be back later. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by moderator2 (edited 06-19-2002).]

Smag16 - my family took a serious interest in my diet after I told them what it did for my lipid ratios - all going from high risk to low risk. Not to mention my six pack for a belly. Really didn't have to lose weight but the fat just fell off and remains off leaving lean muscle mass. I can't envision going back to my old style of eating and I loved pretzels, pasta and bread. Now they scare the S**t out of me.

THANKS a MILLION JJ AND SMAG http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/wave.gif

Since your email addy stayed up... here is mine again...
[removed - Board Guidelines - No contact information]

edit... the only thing I REALLY miss from our old way of regular eating is my potato salad!! I loved it!!

[This message has been edited by smag16 (edited 06-19-2002).]

[This message has been edited by moderator2 (edited 06-19-2002).]

Hello, Thanks for the URL. Now, I think I finally understand. Yep, you can definately loose weight on menus like that. It look like all they are doing is just cutting out the starches, which is kind of what my dad had to do when he was diabetic. (He's dead now...No reflection on his diet.) Congratulations on your accomplishment! I used to do something similar to that when I went on the 3-day diet on the Internet. I started my low-fat/low-cal. diet when I got high cholesterol. I can eat a lot of food too. I can make some mean low-fat brownies! I also use a lot of spices, so I'm not bored at all and my food is so good, my husband and my son steals it! I'm not into downing other people's choices. It's just that the low-fat diet wasn't for you. Thanks for the info. I know low-carb just doesn't look like it would fit into my life style

------------------
Magpie

Smag16,

Glad to hear that everything is working out well for you and your husband. I haven't seen Oldguy post in a long time.

Have you read any good low carb books such as "Protein Power"? This book provides a very convincing argument for a low carbohydrate diet as the best approach for abnormal lipids, and it is well supported with scientific references. After I read this book several years ago it really peaked my interest in this way of eating. Since then I've probably read a dozen books and hundreds of internet and scientific articles on the benefits of low carb diets. Protein Power also has a good website and discussion board. Using a good search engine such as www.google.com (http://www.google.com) and searching on keywords like low carb or cholesterol myths or second opinions cholesterol or westonaprice org or paleodiet or medline and you can find more useful information than you can read in a week.

Another good site that stresses the benefits of eating low carb and limiting processed foods along with eating plenty of meat, eggs, and vegetables is Dr. Mercola's website. He has a free newsletter that often discusses the latest research relating to nutrition with links to the major medical journals. His site search engine, which also uses google, is also very useful in searching past health related articles on his site of which there are many.

Congratulations and good luck.

Alan

I am VERY interested in your posts. You see, I've always had high cholsterol and at 41 I had angioplasty. This was after about 7 years on a low-fat diet - but I was paying NO ATTENTION to my carbs and sweets!

I've reduced my triglycerides from 600 to 108 and lost 50 lbs. after adding daily excercise and serious diet changes (less sugar, white flour) but my cholesterol is still up near 300. I get about 10-20% total calories from fat. I'm not brainwashed about the fat intake - just don't know where to get it? Is the fat you eat mostly saturated or unsaturated?

What percent of carbs/protein/fat do you consume? Is it OK to eat veggie dogs/burgers (good protein, low carb)?

Thanks and sorry for all the questions. My wife's grandmother is 95 and she always did her own cooking with butter, bacon, eggs, etc. - she's never been overweight and still has an occasional drink! Where did this eat fat/ get fat nonsense get started?

test...
I keep having trouble posting.... writing a lot and then it goes away. Sorry!

Sweetie, I haven't read a single book! If you or Oldguy said it... well, that's good enough for me!! How's that for blind faith?!! http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif
I have sense enough to know when someone is more intelligent than I and when they have done the research and when someone is blowing smoke up my skirt... you guys KNOW what you are talking about and you are dedicated and motivated...talked to Oldguy a few weeks ago and he had taken a written exam for cardiologists ... wouldn't you just know it.. he aced it!! Said he had to give the wrong answers to get them right! http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif

Man,this is the way to eat!! It really is!
If all the folks who came on this board seeking help would just type in Arkie6 and Oldguy in the search engine here and read ALL your posts, they would KNOW what to do!!! I'm sure there are others who have done it too, but I learned everything here from ya'll! I read every single referrence that both of you posted and then did more research myself... I send goobs of stuff to Oldguy now...(.course we talk on the land line a lot now too. Love to visit them!!)
Go to Mercola's site once in a while...I mostly go to [removed - Now Free Advertising - please do not post other groups on our website] because here is my support group and the very very best recipes ever... we all contribute and they are free for everyone on the web... I even have a few recipes there that I made up for some wonderful crackers..several varieties...cookies too!

Looney...I am not doing the percentages... I am sick to d**n death of numbers!! You've got to know that after years and years of DH on statins and counting every single gram of fat... learning to cook "Fat Free" and spending a small fortune on cook books...I just am not doing it any more.
I know a protein from a fat... I know a vegetable from a fruit...I know a starch when I see one. I probably know more about the glycemic index than I want to...AND I know more about artifical and natural sweeteners than the diabetics and their docs. (You don't know me, I am not bragging, I am simply stating the simple truth.) I was dumb as a stick and scared to death when I first found this site. Not any more!!
I am now researching and sending the info to my family small town doc who is willing to work with us... The Smokie Mountain Lab in Ashville, NC, does our lab work... I learned soooo much there as they need to educate doctors about what they do and why. They are wonderful!! If you go to this site and click on everything there is, you will be well educated in medicine!! That site has some tiny little thingies to click on...be sure to click on them all... it is a huge site!!!
I have totally quit the med. profession with no hopes to ever go back as I morally cannot do it. And I am not the only one who is disgusted with it.. I know of this 70 year old doc.. world famous...good friend... you should see him get going on the med. prof. as it is today... threw his stethyscope across the room ... he did!!
Millions are being "taken in" in more ways than one!!!
READ and LEARN!! You cannot depend on docs any more... you have to learn for yourself and your loved ones.

Looney, You asked about veggie dogs.. forget em!! Eat a steak!!
If it's been 'processed" it's poison!
Look at the rows of veg. oils in the grocery..think "POISON"!
If even the lard says, "Hydrogenized" ...POISON.
Soy protein...POISON! I wouldn't touch anything at all with soy in it!!
Sugar, honey, fructose...poison!! (did you know that fructose by itself is very low on the glycemic index, BUT if it is consumed with anything else, it acts like sugar and climbs the index like crazy?!)
I have my treats SF and LC!! Lots of them...dipping fresh strawberries in my melted Dr.'s chocolate bar as I am writing this.. You need to know that I was a Godiva girl before last June! NO chocolate but that brand!! I'm real picky!! I know what's good!!
Had a good DH before Lipitor and Zocor... he was worth getting back!! I know what's good!!! http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/wink.gif
For those of you out there who read and don't post... that fat free and lo fat diet is probably going to give you type 2 diabetes eventually (when you use a fat free or a lo fat product... remember they had to replace the fat with something... that something is usually a carb!) all carbs turn to SUGAR in your body!... and everytime your insulin rises (it irritates your arteries) your body lays down oxidized fatty acids (these molecules are extremely sticky) to protect the irritated arteries. ... kinda a bandaid patch. Really!
That is the story in a nutshell. How did I do Arkie?

[This message has been edited by smag16 (edited 06-19-2002).]

[This message has been edited by moderator2 (edited 06-19-2002).]

Originally posted by smag16:
How did I do Arkie?Great!!!

Keep up with the encouraging posts. It is always nice to read a success story. And tell Oldguy to get back on the boards. We miss his wit and wisdom.

Alan

I'll drop in once in a while..it is soooo discouraging here and other places when the same questions get asked over and over and the answer is LC but few will actually believe it or do it. It's amazing to me how ppl think this WOE is boring...not at all!! Our bodies are made to burn fat, not carbs! Yes, indeedy! The "Low fat brainwashing" is the saddest thing ever. Doesn't help at all.
One day in the future, ppl will be as stunned to learn that we ate lo fat and used all these statins to lower cholesterol, just as we are today when we learn of the bleeding that ppl used in the 18th and early 19th century. They will think we were really stupid and how 'primative" of the medical profession. Kinda like an Orwellian book to tell the truth.
Thank you again, Alan! Your advice was correct...all of it!! http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Blessings!!

Originally posted by LooneyJM:
...I've reduced my triglycerides from 600 to 108 and lost 50 lbs. after adding daily excercise and serious diet changes (less sugar, white flour) but my cholesterol is still up near 300.

Your total choleserol number isn't that important. What is important is to keep your triglycerides low and your HDL high. Studies have shown that a high total cholesterol level may increase your risk of heart disease by a factor of 2 over a low cholesterol level (say 2 events per hundred with high cholesterol vs. 1 event per hundred with low cholesterol), but a high triglyceride/HDL ratio increases your risk by a factor of 16 over a low triglyceride/HDL ratio. A factor of sixteen (16)!!! An optimum triglyceride/HDL ratio is less than 2.0 which typically requires triglyceride levels around 100 or less and HDL levels around 50 or more. A low carbohydrate, moderate protein, moderate fat diet which includes plenty of red meat, fish, eggs, and non-starchy vegetables is the healhty way to get there. All this avoidance of red meat and saturated fat is killing peoples HDL levels because other than high levels of exercise, these are about the only things that will increase your HDL levels.


...I get about 10-20% total calories from fat.

I get about 50-60% of my calories from fat.

I'm not brainwashed about the fat intake - just don't know where to get it? Is the fat you eat mostly saturated or unsaturated?

I eat about 50/50 saturated vs. unsaturated. You see, even lard is only 41% saturated fat and is 47% monounsaturated fat (oleic acid just like that found in olive oil) - soure: "Composition of Foods" USDA. Think saturated = stable, unsaturated = unstable and easily oxidized. The more unsaturated, the more likely it will oxidize or become rancid. You could leave some coconut oil (92% saturated) on your kitchen counter exposed to the air for a year and it would look essentially unchanged after that time. Leave some corn oil (62% polyunsaturate) there for the same time period and it would oxidize in fairly short order and it would eventually become hard like varnish. Those sticky little grease splatters under your range hood that you can't hardly scrub off are highly polyunsaturated fats that have oxidized and turned essentially into varnish. That is about what happens inside your arteries from these highly processed highly polyunsaturated vegetable oils.

There are two fats that are essential for life though, and they are polyunsaturated - the Omega 6 and Omega 3 essential fatty acids, but you only need 1-2% of your daily calories from these. The Omega 6s come from grains primarily, the Omega 3's come primarily from green plants. These two fats need to be relatively balanced in our diets, but most people get way too much Omega 6 from things like corn and soy oil and too few Omega 3 from things like cold water fish and wild game (the cold water fish food chain starts with plankton which is a source of Omega 3 and wild game consumes primarily green grasses higher in Omega 3).

Saturated fat like that found in meat, eggs, and dairy is recommended, along with monounsaturated fat like that found in meats, nuts, olives and avacados. It's hard to avoid the omega 6 fats that you get from soy oil since it is in everything that is processed. To help balance these Omega 6s, I recommend you eat more cold water fish and/or supplement with high quality fish or cod liver oil such as Carlson's Cod Liver Oil.

What percent of carbs/protein/fat do you consume?
About 10%/30%/60% carbs/protein/fat. I don't really keep that close of a watch on it other than limiting the carbohydrates by avoiding things like sugar, grains, taters, etc. I eat meat, fish, eggs, cheese, nuts, and non-starchy vegetables until I'm full.

Is it OK to eat veggie dogs/burgers (good protein, low carb)?
In my opinion, no. These are highly processed and likely contain soy protein isolate. Soy should be avoided in my opinion. It ain't healthy, it's just got a good marketing plan. Go to http://www.abcnews.go.com/onair/2020/2020_000609_soyfdaletter_feature.html or to http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/ or to www.westonaprice.org (http://www.westonaprice.org) and read up on some of the concerns with soy.

My wife's grandmother is 95 and she always did her own cooking with butter, bacon, eggs, etc. - she's never been overweight and still has an occasional drink!
Maybe her longevity is due in a large part to her diet which is based on mostly whole natural foods like butter and eggs? I think most everyone would be better off by consuming these foods vs. the highly processed margarine and egg substitues or cereal or pastries for breakfast. But there is so much less profit margin in real butter and eggs than margarine or cold cereal, that you aren't likely to hear much a push in this direction from the media which derives its profits from advertising.

Alan

Smag16 HELP!!! I know I sound really dumb probably, but what is LC and SF foods. Also what is WOE?
My mom died at age 60 from heart disease and this high cholesterol. My doc seems to think I may follow in her footsteps. My cholesterol is 332 and I won't take Lipitor. I will be 50 in September. I want to live long and enjoy my grandbabies!
I would be willing to try this diet. I need to understand the basics.
Thanks soooo much!
Spiritl http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/angel.gif

Originally posted by spiritl:
Smag16 HELP!!! I know I sound really dumb probably, but what is LC and SF foods. Also what is WOE?

I'm not smag16, but I think this is what she meant:
LC = Low Carb, SF = Sugar Free, WOE = Way of Eating

I would be willing to try this diet. I need to understand the basics.

The book "Protein Power" by Dr. Michael and Mary Dan Eades explains it all. You can get the paperback version of the book for $5-$10 at just about any bookstore.

There is also quite a bit of information posted here in this forum. At the start page for the High Cholestoerol Forum, click the pull-down near the top of the page and select "Show All Topics" to see all of the info. Or you can use the search feature to look for specific topics or keywords.

Alan




[This message has been edited by arkie6 (edited 06-28-2002).]

Originally posted by smag16:
....The "Low fat brainwashing" is the saddest thing ever. Doesn't help at all. One day in the future, ppl will be as stunned to learn that we ate lo fat and used all these statins to lower cholesterol, just as we are today when we learn of the bleeding that ppl used in the 18th and early 19th century. They will think we were really stupid and how 'primative" of the medical profession. Kinda like an Orwellian book to tell the truth...

Funny you should mention this. I ran across a rather amusing article that says essentially the same thing. Here it is: "CHOLESTEROL THEORY WIPES OUT HUMAN RACE" http://www.westonaprice.org/press/press_040902.html

Alan

Arkie6, thank you for the reply to my silly question!
spiritl http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/angel.gif

Thanks everyone, for all the important information. I didn't want this to get buried so I'm bringing it to the forefront again. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif

Absolutely makes sense!

Our bodies crave good nutritious food. Now, if only Atkins and other low-carb diet proponents could fit the 2nd piece of the puzzle together: Cholesterol in our blood is not in any way related to the health of our hearts. I suggest it is only a matter of time. More and more, it looks like the door is beginning to be cracked open. The article on inflammation and Reader's Digest reporting that people with low cholesterol make up half of our heart-attack population is just the beginning.