joslin
09-08-2003, 03:30 PM
I have total cholestrol of 170. Even then I get occational pains near heart. I also did a stress test. Nothing showed up. HDL is 40. Ldl:120, trigl:80. No, it is not a heart burn. Yes, it may be angina. But why should i get if i have such a low value of total choles? No, I won't get prescription for statin nor I am interested. I am not interested in niacin (to increase HDL)since it may raise my blood sugar. Any thoughts?
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cutup
09-08-2003, 07:07 PM
How can you be sure it is not acid reflux? A hiateal? hernia can cause pain in the chest area even when you don't feel the burning of acid in the esophagus
joslin
09-09-2003, 10:21 AM
hernias can be felt & see the protrusions. I don't have any. Also, I have this agina from atleast 3 yrs. I know GERD. I don't have any heart burn problems. My esophagus doesn't burn even if i eat hot spicey food since.
Gooba
09-09-2003, 10:25 AM
Let me see if I get this right.You think you may have angina,but do not want to believe that it is possible because of your stress test.You have said that it is not a number of things like heartburn and you do not want to take anything or get anything looked at further.What is your goal?
cutup
09-09-2003, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by joslin:
hernias can be felt & see the protrusions.
You would not know that you have a hiteal hernia just from examining the outside of your body. The protrusion would have to been observed by a doctor through a scope placed in your throat. The pain you describe sounds like it could be an esophogeal spasm.
hernias can be felt & see the protrusions.
You would not know that you have a hiteal hernia just from examining the outside of your body. The protrusion would have to been observed by a doctor through a scope placed in your throat. The pain you describe sounds like it could be an esophogeal spasm.
joslin
09-09-2003, 12:23 PM
esophageal SPASM does not give pain at heart
Gooba
09-09-2003, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by joslin:
esophageal SPASM does not give pain at heart
That is incorrect.The spasm can be indistinguishable from angina and may radiate to the neck,jaws,arms and back.
esophageal SPASM does not give pain at heart
That is incorrect.The spasm can be indistinguishable from angina and may radiate to the neck,jaws,arms and back.
cutup
09-09-2003, 06:46 PM
What if anything seems to bring on the heart pain that you describe? Are there other symptoms that go along with it such as shortness of breath or pain that goes down into the left arm or up into the jaw? Do you break out into a sweat? How long does the pain last? Is there anything that you can do that relieves it? Do you smoke? There is so much more that goes into angina attacks than just your cholesterol levels.
My mother had an angina attack several years ago. They even did a heart cath because of the symptoms she described. It was not her heart. It was esophogeal spasms. Before you decide that it is definitely angina caused by lack of oxygen to your heart you really should have a study done of the esophagus unless you are having severe shortness of breath, crushing pain, impending feeling of doom or any of the warning signs of a heart attack.
My mother had an angina attack several years ago. They even did a heart cath because of the symptoms she described. It was not her heart. It was esophogeal spasms. Before you decide that it is definitely angina caused by lack of oxygen to your heart you really should have a study done of the esophagus unless you are having severe shortness of breath, crushing pain, impending feeling of doom or any of the warning signs of a heart attack.
joslin
09-10-2003, 10:32 AM
I agree with you regarding further investigation. I do not have any shortness of breath. BP 115/70. Note that 40% of people who have normal cholestrol have heart attacks. Also, almost no heart attacks if cholestrol is less than 150. Hence I assume this to mean 40% of people who have choles. between 150 & 200 have heart attacks. If i have spasm I should have some signs. I do not have any feeling of spasm.
joslin
09-10-2003, 10:38 AM
one more info. if one has esophagus spasm, he/she may have difficulty swallowing hard foods. I do not have any. I can eat anything
pcovers
09-10-2003, 04:22 PM
I have had more GI induced chest discomfort/pain than you can shake a stick at! You may possibly be experiencing angina, but I definitely would not discount GI problems as a likely source.
ARIZONA73
09-10-2003, 06:51 PM
If the chest pain was actually angina brought on by blockages, wouldn't the stress test have detected something?
joslin
09-11-2003, 11:48 AM
i have some proof that i have angina. when i eat too much fat, i can easily feel angina. And if I take 81 mg of asprin, i don't feel angina. Also, if asprin is taken, if my problem is GERD, it should actually aggravate. treadmill stress test detects major blockages (also major angina), but very rarely it can detect minor angina. Right now, my angina pains are relieved by asprin. Yes, I belive that i have minor blockages although I am maintaining total choles. of between 169 & 180. For me it is not too puzzling since when I was growing up, i used to eat only fatty foods & was fat. Right now, my BMI is less than 23. Yes, I am trying to decrease my choles. But from last few yrs, my cholestral nos. have not budged. Don't know what to do. Trying fish oil + lecthin. I do not think it can do much.
CobaltBlue
09-11-2003, 03:10 PM
joslin:
I am not following the correlation between fat intake and angina onset. I have heard of ingestion of fats giving angina-like symptoms thanks to gall bladder problems...
Sure angina can result from meals, provided you have extensive blockage, but this would occur from the intake of huge meals. If that is where are you at with your angina, the safe course would be to get to a hospital. The severity of angina should increase with physical exertion also. Do you experience this?
I am not following the correlation between fat intake and angina onset. I have heard of ingestion of fats giving angina-like symptoms thanks to gall bladder problems...
Sure angina can result from meals, provided you have extensive blockage, but this would occur from the intake of huge meals. If that is where are you at with your angina, the safe course would be to get to a hospital. The severity of angina should increase with physical exertion also. Do you experience this?
joslin
09-11-2003, 03:39 PM
....wrote>>>>
>>>>Sure angina can result from meals, provided you have extensive blockage, but this would occur from the intake of huge meals.
reply: angina pains occur after eating several high fat meals continously for 4 to 5 days otherwise no.
>>>>The severity of angina should increase with physical exertion also. Do you experience this?
Sone time yes & some time no. Hence it is an unstable angina.
so far most of my angina like symptoms are being controlled by 81 mg of asprin. If I daily use asprin, i do not feel any angina at all.
>>>>Sure angina can result from meals, provided you have extensive blockage, but this would occur from the intake of huge meals.
reply: angina pains occur after eating several high fat meals continously for 4 to 5 days otherwise no.
>>>>The severity of angina should increase with physical exertion also. Do you experience this?
Sone time yes & some time no. Hence it is an unstable angina.
so far most of my angina like symptoms are being controlled by 81 mg of asprin. If I daily use asprin, i do not feel any angina at all.
Gooba
09-11-2003, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by joslin:
....wrote>>>>
>>>>The severity of angina should increase with physical exertion also. Do you experience this?
Sone time yes & some time no. Hence it is an unstable angina.
That is NOT unstable angina.Unstable angina is chest pain at rest with no exertion.Eating a big meal,taking a hot shower puts your heart under stress.There are a large number of heart attacks that occur after eating and after bathing.
....wrote>>>>
>>>>The severity of angina should increase with physical exertion also. Do you experience this?
Sone time yes & some time no. Hence it is an unstable angina.
That is NOT unstable angina.Unstable angina is chest pain at rest with no exertion.Eating a big meal,taking a hot shower puts your heart under stress.There are a large number of heart attacks that occur after eating and after bathing.
cutup
09-11-2003, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by joslin:
....wrote>>>>
angina pains occur after eating several high fat meals continously for 4 to 5 days otherwise no.
so far most of my angina like symptoms are being controlled by 81 mg of asprin. If I daily use asprin, i do not feel any angina at all.
Yes eating heavily can bring on an angina attack, but eating a high fat meal 4 or 5 days in a row I've never heard anyone say that. Eating high fat meals can cause your gallbladder to act up which causes chest pain. It may only take 1 high fat meal to do that.
As for the aspirin helping. Aspirin is an analgesic not just a blood thinner. Maybe the aspirin is causing the pain to stop because of the analgesic effect. I've never heard anyone say that taking aspirin relieved their angina. In fact I was on 325mg aspirin daily after my stint and still had angina. After my bypass I took 81mg aspirin and still had angina. Nitro however did relieve it.
What you are calling angina could be costochondritis which is inflammation of the cartilage of the rib cage. Aspirin would probably relieve pain from that. It would explain why you have it sometimes with exertion and sometimes at rest. Have someone put a little pressure on your sternum and see if it is tender to the touch.
What you call heart pain where is it located exactly? Are you talking center of chest or just left of sternum?
....wrote>>>>
angina pains occur after eating several high fat meals continously for 4 to 5 days otherwise no.
so far most of my angina like symptoms are being controlled by 81 mg of asprin. If I daily use asprin, i do not feel any angina at all.
Yes eating heavily can bring on an angina attack, but eating a high fat meal 4 or 5 days in a row I've never heard anyone say that. Eating high fat meals can cause your gallbladder to act up which causes chest pain. It may only take 1 high fat meal to do that.
As for the aspirin helping. Aspirin is an analgesic not just a blood thinner. Maybe the aspirin is causing the pain to stop because of the analgesic effect. I've never heard anyone say that taking aspirin relieved their angina. In fact I was on 325mg aspirin daily after my stint and still had angina. After my bypass I took 81mg aspirin and still had angina. Nitro however did relieve it.
What you are calling angina could be costochondritis which is inflammation of the cartilage of the rib cage. Aspirin would probably relieve pain from that. It would explain why you have it sometimes with exertion and sometimes at rest. Have someone put a little pressure on your sternum and see if it is tender to the touch.
What you call heart pain where is it located exactly? Are you talking center of chest or just left of sternum?
CobaltBlue
09-12-2003, 07:55 AM
Joslin:
I guess I might have been a bit confusing in my response. If you look at the respones of Gooba and cutup, they make the points more directly than I did in my post.
If you have angina at rest, thats unstable as Gooba pointed out. He also mentioned that heart attacks occur after large meals in some cases. Mine did!
As cutup pointed out, fat intake and angina are not really linked. I have seen angina type symptoms and pains described over and over for people with gall bladder problems, and the commonality in all those cases is they say "when I eat a meal with a lot of fats."
Granted this could just be gall bladder, or it could be your heart. As cutup mentioned, aspirin is not the antidote to angina, and even nitroglycerin is not the permanent fix; it is only for temporary relief once CHD has been diagnosed and angina is present.
If you think this is angina, you do want to at least have it checked. Its better to do that and be wrong than to wait and have a MI, which means your probability of death is between 50 and 33%, depending on your age.
I was foolish enough to take that chance and I was lucky. Do you really want to play those odds with life?
I guess I might have been a bit confusing in my response. If you look at the respones of Gooba and cutup, they make the points more directly than I did in my post.
If you have angina at rest, thats unstable as Gooba pointed out. He also mentioned that heart attacks occur after large meals in some cases. Mine did!
As cutup pointed out, fat intake and angina are not really linked. I have seen angina type symptoms and pains described over and over for people with gall bladder problems, and the commonality in all those cases is they say "when I eat a meal with a lot of fats."
Granted this could just be gall bladder, or it could be your heart. As cutup mentioned, aspirin is not the antidote to angina, and even nitroglycerin is not the permanent fix; it is only for temporary relief once CHD has been diagnosed and angina is present.
If you think this is angina, you do want to at least have it checked. Its better to do that and be wrong than to wait and have a MI, which means your probability of death is between 50 and 33%, depending on your age.
I was foolish enough to take that chance and I was lucky. Do you really want to play those odds with life?
joslin
09-12-2003, 09:09 AM
Gooba, yes, I some time get angina even at rest. You corrected me! It is unstable.
Cutup said>>> As for the aspirin helping. Aspirin is an analgesic not just a blood thinner. Maybe the aspirin is causing the pain to stop because of the analgesic effect. I've never heard anyone say that taking aspirin relieved their angina.
· 81 mg is so less, it does not even make my normal analgesic headache go away. I take 2 500 mg Tylenol for headache. If you have too much clogging in the arteries, no way aspirin is going to relive the angina. In my case, I am assuming very low clogging. Note that some people don’t feel the angina/heart attack. I am one of very high sensitive people, I guess I can feel even slightest pains at heart. Note also that my pains are very less. I get pains right at the center of the heart, not shoulder, not legs, not hands….Yes, I know my heart location. The pain comes like a spark for few seconds at the center of HEART and it goes away after some time. 81 mg asprin is thinning the blood & decreasing the blood pressure and relieve my slight very low angina pains. If I make healthy life style changes, actually all of my angina pains will be gone. In fact I have done that few times and whenever I maintain that good healthy life style I don’t get angina.
· Regarding high fat meal, I need to correct this one too. When I say high fat meals, it does not mean I get angina immediately after meals. What I mean is this: if I indulge in too greasy foods (more polyunsat, or sat foods)then after few days my chances of getting angina increases. Hence I usually don’t do that. In fact if I take normal foods with less polysat. And more mono I don’t experience any angina at all. And that is what I am avoiding angina.
Ubernier: I know that either asprin or nitro are only patch work. That is the main reason why I am here searching to find how to decrease my cholestrol even though my choles is only between 170 & 180. note that some docs want the target LDL choles levels to be near 80. I have LDL between 110 & 120. Regading going to docs, yes I have done that also. Just imagine all of you patients who have studied these issues so much don’t even agree that it is angina just because my choles is 170 or 180. My doc also thinks just like you guys. I forced my doc to do something. Finally my DOC even agreed to do tread mill stress test. I do that kind of treadmill exercise daily. It is nothing for me. Doc says now that I passed the test without any problems. I know it did not prove nor disprove that I have angina.
Here are my facts again:
· Total chole 170-180
· Some times slight heart pains (angina) and 81 mg asprin relieves this pain. Frequency once is a week, or month or nothing depending on my food life style
· If I make my food life style changes, I can eliminate angina. It is proven several times.
Cutup said>>> As for the aspirin helping. Aspirin is an analgesic not just a blood thinner. Maybe the aspirin is causing the pain to stop because of the analgesic effect. I've never heard anyone say that taking aspirin relieved their angina.
· 81 mg is so less, it does not even make my normal analgesic headache go away. I take 2 500 mg Tylenol for headache. If you have too much clogging in the arteries, no way aspirin is going to relive the angina. In my case, I am assuming very low clogging. Note that some people don’t feel the angina/heart attack. I am one of very high sensitive people, I guess I can feel even slightest pains at heart. Note also that my pains are very less. I get pains right at the center of the heart, not shoulder, not legs, not hands….Yes, I know my heart location. The pain comes like a spark for few seconds at the center of HEART and it goes away after some time. 81 mg asprin is thinning the blood & decreasing the blood pressure and relieve my slight very low angina pains. If I make healthy life style changes, actually all of my angina pains will be gone. In fact I have done that few times and whenever I maintain that good healthy life style I don’t get angina.
· Regarding high fat meal, I need to correct this one too. When I say high fat meals, it does not mean I get angina immediately after meals. What I mean is this: if I indulge in too greasy foods (more polyunsat, or sat foods)then after few days my chances of getting angina increases. Hence I usually don’t do that. In fact if I take normal foods with less polysat. And more mono I don’t experience any angina at all. And that is what I am avoiding angina.
Ubernier: I know that either asprin or nitro are only patch work. That is the main reason why I am here searching to find how to decrease my cholestrol even though my choles is only between 170 & 180. note that some docs want the target LDL choles levels to be near 80. I have LDL between 110 & 120. Regading going to docs, yes I have done that also. Just imagine all of you patients who have studied these issues so much don’t even agree that it is angina just because my choles is 170 or 180. My doc also thinks just like you guys. I forced my doc to do something. Finally my DOC even agreed to do tread mill stress test. I do that kind of treadmill exercise daily. It is nothing for me. Doc says now that I passed the test without any problems. I know it did not prove nor disprove that I have angina.
Here are my facts again:
· Total chole 170-180
· Some times slight heart pains (angina) and 81 mg asprin relieves this pain. Frequency once is a week, or month or nothing depending on my food life style
· If I make my food life style changes, I can eliminate angina. It is proven several times.
CobaltBlue
09-12-2003, 12:23 PM
joslin:
I guess all I can tell you is to keep at it, as someone else suggested. You know how you feel best, and if your physician doesn't agree or want to investigate, I would find another.
I would not focus highly upon your lipid numbers. I had a total chol of 102-135 and still ended up with a LAD that required a stent because it went from 40 to 90% blocked in 3 months.
I guess all I can tell you is to keep at it, as someone else suggested. You know how you feel best, and if your physician doesn't agree or want to investigate, I would find another.
I would not focus highly upon your lipid numbers. I had a total chol of 102-135 and still ended up with a LAD that required a stent because it went from 40 to 90% blocked in 3 months.
zip2play
09-13-2003, 01:02 PM
joslin,
If I were convinced that I had angina, I would arrange as quickly as possible for complete angiography to ascertain the extent of the blockage and then take appropriate action to prevent or delay a heart attack or sudden heart failure. In the meantime I would do EVERYTHING conceivable to get Total Cholesterol as low as possible and HDL's as high as possible.
If I were convinced that I had angina, I would arrange as quickly as possible for complete angiography to ascertain the extent of the blockage and then take appropriate action to prevent or delay a heart attack or sudden heart failure. In the meantime I would do EVERYTHING conceivable to get Total Cholesterol as low as possible and HDL's as high as possible.