brianpain33
08-09-2008, 12:14 AM
I would like to hear from anyone that has been using testosterone replacement therapy, especially Androgel. I have started using it do to the fact that my pain meds have lowered my testosterone too much.
1. Did you experience any side effects when first starting on it?
2. How long did it take for you to see any effects?
3. How long have you been taking it?
4. How often does your doctor do blood tests?
5. What time of the day do you apply it?
6. Have you had a problem with it transfering to your partner's skin?(what do you do differently to prevent this)
On the information leaflet it says the most common side effects are dizziness, nausea, vomiting. Has anyone experienced these?
brian
1. Did you experience any side effects when first starting on it?
2. How long did it take for you to see any effects?
3. How long have you been taking it?
4. How often does your doctor do blood tests?
5. What time of the day do you apply it?
6. Have you had a problem with it transfering to your partner's skin?(what do you do differently to prevent this)
On the information leaflet it says the most common side effects are dizziness, nausea, vomiting. Has anyone experienced these?
brian
Sponsor
Executor
08-09-2008, 12:20 AM
Hey Brian...I answered all these questions for you in your last thread, but will do so again.
It takes about two weeks to really notice a difference. Other than some minor increased heart beat the first day or two, you don't notice anything.
Docs usually do blood work once a year to confirm that your levels aren't too high, or too low. I've been on it for about two years....My brother about three years. Morning is the best time to apply since it mimics your own T production where T is highest in the AM. This is also why you want blood work drawn in the afternoon for a more regular level. Conversely, AM testing gives a "skewed" result.
You really don't have to worry about transferring it...Only if you have intimate contact right after application. Otherwise, it gets absorbed by your skin. One hour after application, you can't feel or smell anything. It's alcohol based so it gets absorbed (and dries) almost immediately.
Hope this helps, and good luck.
Ex
It takes about two weeks to really notice a difference. Other than some minor increased heart beat the first day or two, you don't notice anything.
Docs usually do blood work once a year to confirm that your levels aren't too high, or too low. I've been on it for about two years....My brother about three years. Morning is the best time to apply since it mimics your own T production where T is highest in the AM. This is also why you want blood work drawn in the afternoon for a more regular level. Conversely, AM testing gives a "skewed" result.
You really don't have to worry about transferring it...Only if you have intimate contact right after application. Otherwise, it gets absorbed by your skin. One hour after application, you can't feel or smell anything. It's alcohol based so it gets absorbed (and dries) almost immediately.
Hope this helps, and good luck.
Ex
conductor
08-09-2008, 12:30 AM
Dear Brian,
I will make these questions available to my Dad, who began Androgel treatment about 6 weeks ago. When I get the answers, I will give you the information.
My Dad takes Percocet 10's 4 times a day. For him, that's excessive medication. However, he requires this relief for his back. As well, he has become depressed, withdrawn, and physically lethargic. That's the short story, which is unusual for me--I realize I am far too verbose 99% of the time. So, don't get too used to it!
You are still on my daily list of prayer rememberances--so I believe in your long-term improvement, my friend (and I think of you that way).
Sincerely,
Jon (Conductor)
I will make these questions available to my Dad, who began Androgel treatment about 6 weeks ago. When I get the answers, I will give you the information.
My Dad takes Percocet 10's 4 times a day. For him, that's excessive medication. However, he requires this relief for his back. As well, he has become depressed, withdrawn, and physically lethargic. That's the short story, which is unusual for me--I realize I am far too verbose 99% of the time. So, don't get too used to it!
You are still on my daily list of prayer rememberances--so I believe in your long-term improvement, my friend (and I think of you that way).
Sincerely,
Jon (Conductor)
Executor
08-09-2008, 11:38 AM
BTW, I forgot to mention that protocol call for a follow up appt in about 4-6 weeks for blood work to test your levels....They should test to see if your levels have come up substantially or not. Also, as I mentioned in other threads, they should be treating the "symptoms" and not the overall T....This is very important. One person could thrive on say a 350 #, while another one could have all sorts of problems. As a general rule, however, symptoms should begin to cease around 350-400 and you should feel remarkably better when you get to the 500 range.
Regards,
Ex
Regards,
Ex
forginon
08-09-2008, 08:01 PM
Brian,
I've been on Androgel for 3 months now.
Ex has done an outstanding job of providing answers.
I'll just say a few things.
No side effects. Took a few weeks to notice effects.
I use it first thing in the morning.
My doc likes to have blood drawn exactly one hour after using AndroGel.
My prescription is for AndroGel (testosterone gel 1%).
I have noticed a return of libido and "size." I no longer have a weird climax or ejaculation, but it does take me much longer to get there. I don't consider that a bad effect. It used to be that, even before opioids, the andi-Ds had a negative effect on ejaculation. That's gone with the AndroGel. Good news. eh?
BTW, I have stopped using Ultram. Actually, I'm down to 1-2 per day, from the full 400mg daily. Many reasons too numerous to go over in this post. But I'm sure that's also been positive for sexual relations.
steve
I've been on Androgel for 3 months now.
Ex has done an outstanding job of providing answers.
I'll just say a few things.
No side effects. Took a few weeks to notice effects.
I use it first thing in the morning.
My doc likes to have blood drawn exactly one hour after using AndroGel.
My prescription is for AndroGel (testosterone gel 1%).
I have noticed a return of libido and "size." I no longer have a weird climax or ejaculation, but it does take me much longer to get there. I don't consider that a bad effect. It used to be that, even before opioids, the andi-Ds had a negative effect on ejaculation. That's gone with the AndroGel. Good news. eh?
BTW, I have stopped using Ultram. Actually, I'm down to 1-2 per day, from the full 400mg daily. Many reasons too numerous to go over in this post. But I'm sure that's also been positive for sexual relations.
steve
Shoreline
08-12-2008, 01:14 PM
Brian, Please find and read the prescribing instructions yourself. You do have to worry about tranfering it to yourpartner. The alcohol makes it dry to the touch very rapidly but when you sweat it reactivates and the area can become slimy . Acording the the prescribing info, Transferance can take place up to 10 hours after aplication with 15 minutes of vigerous skin on skin contact. The rate at which it transfers can couble your partners natural level. Unless you like your women hairy, you might want to keep your T shirt on or shower first.
As far as negative side efects, Once the doc has ruled out all other posibile reasons your T levels could be low, mainly pituitary tumor and decdides your a safe candidate for T therapy, meaning if you have had a MI, stroke clotting problems or enlarged prostate you may not be a good candidate for the risks involved or they simply have to watch for these types of problems more closely. Sweating ocurs in less than 1 % of people that use androgel, and I would hardly compare a womans use to a mans use, The drug has never been tested on women so there is no data and it's not recomended for women.
As far as potential side effects, enlarged prostate and increasee risk of prostate cancer, Increased risk of stroke, heart atack or other clot problems,. Then there is hypotrophic gonadism "shrinking testes" , over growth of breast tissue and hair loss caused by the increased amounts of DHT all have a greater ocurance in men then sweating and are often the reason this med must be discontinued.
I know, in Eutopia all meds are good, have no ill side efects or negative consequences and we are all entitled to whatever we ask for. But your really not getting the best care when people start diagnosing themself or others based on a few questions and devising a treatment plan beause they think they know more than the docs we seebecause they read a couple articles. Your really not getting the medical care you deserve and you are putting yourself at risk by ignoring all other possible causes of low T levels if you allow a doc to treat the sypmtom and not look for any other cause. Hormone therapy isn't completely benign but for some reason it's frowned upon if you mention any of the negative aspects of treatment when it comes to the meds we think we want on tghis forum.
It is very posible to not only have opiates effect your T levels but to have another problem going on that could be much more serious and only a doc doing tests like an MRI of your brain, checking PSA levels and doing a complete history and exam allows a doc to make an informed recomendation that you should be using this product.
Androgel isn't completely benign the way it's been described and exec is completely wrong about transfering this to your partner even though she has had to tell you twice now. Doubling your partners T serum level from 15 minutes of vigerous skin on skin contact up to 10 hours after aplication is pretty significant transferance. Wearing a T shirt can completly protect your partner but Please read the full prescribing instructions for yourself and your partner.
Inabilty to climax is one symptom of low T, you don't have to be on opiate to have low T or climax problems, I would think the leap to blame opiates for everything might offend someone if it was an actual doc blaming all your problems on opiates. Isn't that ofensive when a doc won't even look into a problem because he can blame the opiates?
Hormone therapy isn't quite as safe as the candy necklaces we wore as children, despite what out Eutopian leader thinks. All inabilty or retarded ability to climax isn't due to opiates and all low T levels aren't caused by opiates. Nor is all sleep disturbance, restlless leg or any problem.
You know that saying about a little bit of info being a dangerous thing. This is a perfect example. If your doc agrees to prescribe without any further testing, you could be dead in a year from a tumor or prastate cancer or some other problem that was never even looked into simply because we as patients know there is a link for some people between hormone levels and opiates. So what, It doesn't mean you shouldn't look for the cause rather than simply medicate the symptom away and potentially mask a major problem so long it can't be corrected.
Opiates can cause urinary retention, but so can an enlarged prostate or prostate cancer. It just so happens Androgel can cause enlargement of the prostate and faster progression of prostate cancer. Why would any man take that kind of chance without first making sure his prostate was OK and they can handle the T therapy. Same with heart problems and risk of pituitary tumor. Just because someoene elses doc may not have bothered to get an endocrinologist invlolved, check PSA levels, do an MRI of the Pituitary, or a simple prostate exam before prescribing this med, doesn't mean it's safe for everyone.
Good luck, Dave
As far as negative side efects, Once the doc has ruled out all other posibile reasons your T levels could be low, mainly pituitary tumor and decdides your a safe candidate for T therapy, meaning if you have had a MI, stroke clotting problems or enlarged prostate you may not be a good candidate for the risks involved or they simply have to watch for these types of problems more closely. Sweating ocurs in less than 1 % of people that use androgel, and I would hardly compare a womans use to a mans use, The drug has never been tested on women so there is no data and it's not recomended for women.
As far as potential side effects, enlarged prostate and increasee risk of prostate cancer, Increased risk of stroke, heart atack or other clot problems,. Then there is hypotrophic gonadism "shrinking testes" , over growth of breast tissue and hair loss caused by the increased amounts of DHT all have a greater ocurance in men then sweating and are often the reason this med must be discontinued.
I know, in Eutopia all meds are good, have no ill side efects or negative consequences and we are all entitled to whatever we ask for. But your really not getting the best care when people start diagnosing themself or others based on a few questions and devising a treatment plan beause they think they know more than the docs we seebecause they read a couple articles. Your really not getting the medical care you deserve and you are putting yourself at risk by ignoring all other possible causes of low T levels if you allow a doc to treat the sypmtom and not look for any other cause. Hormone therapy isn't completely benign but for some reason it's frowned upon if you mention any of the negative aspects of treatment when it comes to the meds we think we want on tghis forum.
It is very posible to not only have opiates effect your T levels but to have another problem going on that could be much more serious and only a doc doing tests like an MRI of your brain, checking PSA levels and doing a complete history and exam allows a doc to make an informed recomendation that you should be using this product.
Androgel isn't completely benign the way it's been described and exec is completely wrong about transfering this to your partner even though she has had to tell you twice now. Doubling your partners T serum level from 15 minutes of vigerous skin on skin contact up to 10 hours after aplication is pretty significant transferance. Wearing a T shirt can completly protect your partner but Please read the full prescribing instructions for yourself and your partner.
Inabilty to climax is one symptom of low T, you don't have to be on opiate to have low T or climax problems, I would think the leap to blame opiates for everything might offend someone if it was an actual doc blaming all your problems on opiates. Isn't that ofensive when a doc won't even look into a problem because he can blame the opiates?
Hormone therapy isn't quite as safe as the candy necklaces we wore as children, despite what out Eutopian leader thinks. All inabilty or retarded ability to climax isn't due to opiates and all low T levels aren't caused by opiates. Nor is all sleep disturbance, restlless leg or any problem.
You know that saying about a little bit of info being a dangerous thing. This is a perfect example. If your doc agrees to prescribe without any further testing, you could be dead in a year from a tumor or prastate cancer or some other problem that was never even looked into simply because we as patients know there is a link for some people between hormone levels and opiates. So what, It doesn't mean you shouldn't look for the cause rather than simply medicate the symptom away and potentially mask a major problem so long it can't be corrected.
Opiates can cause urinary retention, but so can an enlarged prostate or prostate cancer. It just so happens Androgel can cause enlargement of the prostate and faster progression of prostate cancer. Why would any man take that kind of chance without first making sure his prostate was OK and they can handle the T therapy. Same with heart problems and risk of pituitary tumor. Just because someoene elses doc may not have bothered to get an endocrinologist invlolved, check PSA levels, do an MRI of the Pituitary, or a simple prostate exam before prescribing this med, doesn't mean it's safe for everyone.
Good luck, Dave
slipperyslope
08-12-2008, 04:17 PM
I would have asked your Dr all of these questions as you have some concerns that is for certain. Especially with the conflicting info you now have regarding transferring the gel to your partner, you have 2 opinions that are the opposite so now you need to call the manufacture, or go to there web site and read what they say. I bet all of the info you are asking is on the there site. since both parties offering advice use the gel you better check to see what the real deal is.
I would also want to make sure I didn't have other medical issues before I started on such a med, but than again your a smart enough guy that you have probably looked into all other possibilites and discussed them with your DR. I know back a few months ago when you had your girl friend ( neighbor) you seemed to be VERY active in that Dept and certainly didn't mention any issues with Testosterone being a problem for you so maybe since your pain med increases things have taken a turn for the worse in that area and that is why your Dr put you on the Testostorone gel, and for that I am very sorry. I hope the new wonder gel works well for you and that your back in action very soon.knocking em dead again...
SS
I would also want to make sure I didn't have other medical issues before I started on such a med, but than again your a smart enough guy that you have probably looked into all other possibilites and discussed them with your DR. I know back a few months ago when you had your girl friend ( neighbor) you seemed to be VERY active in that Dept and certainly didn't mention any issues with Testosterone being a problem for you so maybe since your pain med increases things have taken a turn for the worse in that area and that is why your Dr put you on the Testostorone gel, and for that I am very sorry. I hope the new wonder gel works well for you and that your back in action very soon.knocking em dead again...
SS
forginon
08-12-2008, 06:56 PM
...you have 2 opinions that are the opposite so now you need to call the manufacture, or go to there web site and read what they say. I bet all of the info you are asking is on the there site. since both parties offering advice use the gel you better check to see what the real deal is...
It's all in black and white in the prescribing info and patient guide that accompanies every prescription. Transference can take place for hours after application. Shoreline is right on the money.
He's also correct about looking for causes. When my doc started writing me a script for AndroGel I stopped him and requested a referral to an Endocrinologist. I was not going to use something as strong and life altering as hormone replacement w/o knowing why my T was at 66. When one's numbers should be around 500 and up comes 66 you need to know why. So does Brian. In my case I learned I have a brain tumor. Now I have to return to the endo because I'm having daily headaches and my vision has changed somewhat dramatically over the last few months. This tumor sits very close to the optic nerve and I need to know if it's growing faster than anticipated.
Long story short - this is serious stuff. And it deserves due respect. We have to be very careful when dealing out advice. And the one receiving the advice has the obligation to check things out for themselves. I've made mistakes with advice given to others - we all have. We honestly try to help each other but we're not doctors and we're not perfect.
Brian - please do go get an MRI. Find out why your numbers are low. You owe it to yourself buddy. Ex is usually right on the money. I am very thankful for all she's done for me. She just came across some bad info on this one. Happens to all of us.
steve
It's all in black and white in the prescribing info and patient guide that accompanies every prescription. Transference can take place for hours after application. Shoreline is right on the money.
He's also correct about looking for causes. When my doc started writing me a script for AndroGel I stopped him and requested a referral to an Endocrinologist. I was not going to use something as strong and life altering as hormone replacement w/o knowing why my T was at 66. When one's numbers should be around 500 and up comes 66 you need to know why. So does Brian. In my case I learned I have a brain tumor. Now I have to return to the endo because I'm having daily headaches and my vision has changed somewhat dramatically over the last few months. This tumor sits very close to the optic nerve and I need to know if it's growing faster than anticipated.
Long story short - this is serious stuff. And it deserves due respect. We have to be very careful when dealing out advice. And the one receiving the advice has the obligation to check things out for themselves. I've made mistakes with advice given to others - we all have. We honestly try to help each other but we're not doctors and we're not perfect.
Brian - please do go get an MRI. Find out why your numbers are low. You owe it to yourself buddy. Ex is usually right on the money. I am very thankful for all she's done for me. She just came across some bad info on this one. Happens to all of us.
steve
Executor
08-13-2008, 12:14 AM
If you read all the test data from the manufacturer, you'll see that the risk of transference is actually very low. However, there is a warning in the prescribing information just like there are hundreds of other warnings / effects. Unfortunately, some warnings get more press coverage than others. As your pharmacist will tell you, if a person who is part of a test group and they report any side effect, the company must list it. That's why you see literally hundreds. Ask your Doc what are the most impt side effects as he/she knows best.
The manufacturer states that peak T levels are about an hour after application due to rapid absorption. Patients are instructed to apply in the early AM so, unless you are having very intimate contact, body to body, shortly after application, or also in the AM, you don't have much to worry about. However, you should always follow the manufacturers recommendations now matter what medication you take, just to be safe.....No different than when a manufacturer says to take a particular med 2 x day, but you take 3 x, you are going against the manufacturer and you must make a decision about your care. You may want to also ask your Doc if you feel it's going to be a problem.
You can always keep your shirt on as an extra precaution. And, if you don't feel good about the treatment, you shouldn't participate. I wouldn't get too caught up in all those "the sky is falling" side effects....Each med you take has far too many side effects to mention. Personally, I think the effects of low T is far more dangerous than nominal supplementation. Again, you have to trust your Doc and do what you think is best. Although your GP is qualified to treat you, I would seek the recommendation of a URO or ENDO, however. They are more qualified, IMO. But, again, that's up to you.
Good luck with your therapy...Hope it goes well.
Regards,
Ex
The manufacturer states that peak T levels are about an hour after application due to rapid absorption. Patients are instructed to apply in the early AM so, unless you are having very intimate contact, body to body, shortly after application, or also in the AM, you don't have much to worry about. However, you should always follow the manufacturers recommendations now matter what medication you take, just to be safe.....No different than when a manufacturer says to take a particular med 2 x day, but you take 3 x, you are going against the manufacturer and you must make a decision about your care. You may want to also ask your Doc if you feel it's going to be a problem.
You can always keep your shirt on as an extra precaution. And, if you don't feel good about the treatment, you shouldn't participate. I wouldn't get too caught up in all those "the sky is falling" side effects....Each med you take has far too many side effects to mention. Personally, I think the effects of low T is far more dangerous than nominal supplementation. Again, you have to trust your Doc and do what you think is best. Although your GP is qualified to treat you, I would seek the recommendation of a URO or ENDO, however. They are more qualified, IMO. But, again, that's up to you.
Good luck with your therapy...Hope it goes well.
Regards,
Ex
forginon
08-13-2008, 11:48 AM
...I think the effects of low T is far more dangerous than nominal supplementation....
Now that I am 3 months into hormone replacement therapy, I must say that the benefits to me far outweigh the risks. I may be a "special case" in that my pre-therapy T level was 66, and that was tumor induced. As Ex has pointed out, the opioids have clearly played a role in this low level as well.
The benefits I've seen are tremendous, and w/o Ex's encouragement I may not have gone through with it. I must take on exception to the above snippet - I think that AndroGel T replacement therapy is significantly more than "nominal supplementation" but this may just be semantics.
After only 3 months my T level is now 500ish. What a difference.
I have a question Ex - do you think I'm on T replacement for life? I think I've written all there is to know about my tumor, so I can't think of any more info to provide you with. Just curious...
steve
Now that I am 3 months into hormone replacement therapy, I must say that the benefits to me far outweigh the risks. I may be a "special case" in that my pre-therapy T level was 66, and that was tumor induced. As Ex has pointed out, the opioids have clearly played a role in this low level as well.
The benefits I've seen are tremendous, and w/o Ex's encouragement I may not have gone through with it. I must take on exception to the above snippet - I think that AndroGel T replacement therapy is significantly more than "nominal supplementation" but this may just be semantics.
After only 3 months my T level is now 500ish. What a difference.
I have a question Ex - do you think I'm on T replacement for life? I think I've written all there is to know about my tumor, so I can't think of any more info to provide you with. Just curious...
steve
brianpain33
08-14-2008, 04:38 AM
Shoreline:
I don't know if you are trying to help me or completely make me paranoid and upset. You make it sound like my doctor is an idiot and did nothing before putting me on the androgel. He did test my blood and my pituitary gland. I am not sure of what everything was that they were able to check for in my blood but I will ask tomorrow when I see the doctor and ask if there is anything else we should check for to make sure that we investigate the reason for the low testosterone. I am sure that he would be more than willing to do an MRI or any other tests on my brain or prostate.
You have me very worried and upset because of everything you said. I know that using Androgel is serious and I did read the drug information leaflet that came in the box and the one that came from CVS. I do try to be a well informed person before using a drug. I am seeing some slight improvements but I know that it will take some time and probably up to a month before the effects have really been noticed. Please everyone continue to pray for me and I will keep everyone posted.
brian
I don't know if you are trying to help me or completely make me paranoid and upset. You make it sound like my doctor is an idiot and did nothing before putting me on the androgel. He did test my blood and my pituitary gland. I am not sure of what everything was that they were able to check for in my blood but I will ask tomorrow when I see the doctor and ask if there is anything else we should check for to make sure that we investigate the reason for the low testosterone. I am sure that he would be more than willing to do an MRI or any other tests on my brain or prostate.
You have me very worried and upset because of everything you said. I know that using Androgel is serious and I did read the drug information leaflet that came in the box and the one that came from CVS. I do try to be a well informed person before using a drug. I am seeing some slight improvements but I know that it will take some time and probably up to a month before the effects have really been noticed. Please everyone continue to pray for me and I will keep everyone posted.
brian
forginon
08-14-2008, 05:56 PM
Ex,
Your description of nominal supplementation seems very sound and I am very comfortable with it. Thanks for that.
I appreciate you sharing your thought process regarding the length of time I may be on T replacement. We all agree that chronic use of opioids lowers T. So that has to be at least part of the reason for my low T. Pituitary Adenomas are also well known for causing the lowering of T, and I believe that too is a factor. How much either one contributes to the lowered T is a mystery for now. If I were to go off of opioids long enough for the Pit to re-establish its role and bring the T level back to whatever level it could be, then we would probably know how to place the blame. Because my level was so low, and because of the presence of the tumor, my endo places all the blame on the tumor, but admits he knows less than he should about the role of opioids on T. I guess the bottom line for me is to expect to be on T replacement for a good long time. I don't expect to be going off of opioids any time soon, and there's no reason to believe my pit will return to normal, so my T will probably always require supplementation.
Thanks Ex.
cmpgirl,
I'm probably in the same boat as your dad. The endo says the damage to the pit is permanent and may well not yet be done. Since we are in a watch and wait mode, the tumor remains and whatever has caused the development of the tumor remains too, so there may yet be more damage. Thanks for the info!
Brian,
I don't want to get into trying to interpret what might have been meant by other posters, but I do think you are taking a good step to lean the cause of your low T. Yours was low enough that it would concern me if I were in your shoes. For me, T supplementation is a necessary evil and the benefits far outweigh the potential side effects. I suspect it's the same for you.
What have you noticed so far Brian (with regard to the AndroGel)?
steve
Your description of nominal supplementation seems very sound and I am very comfortable with it. Thanks for that.
I appreciate you sharing your thought process regarding the length of time I may be on T replacement. We all agree that chronic use of opioids lowers T. So that has to be at least part of the reason for my low T. Pituitary Adenomas are also well known for causing the lowering of T, and I believe that too is a factor. How much either one contributes to the lowered T is a mystery for now. If I were to go off of opioids long enough for the Pit to re-establish its role and bring the T level back to whatever level it could be, then we would probably know how to place the blame. Because my level was so low, and because of the presence of the tumor, my endo places all the blame on the tumor, but admits he knows less than he should about the role of opioids on T. I guess the bottom line for me is to expect to be on T replacement for a good long time. I don't expect to be going off of opioids any time soon, and there's no reason to believe my pit will return to normal, so my T will probably always require supplementation.
Thanks Ex.
cmpgirl,
I'm probably in the same boat as your dad. The endo says the damage to the pit is permanent and may well not yet be done. Since we are in a watch and wait mode, the tumor remains and whatever has caused the development of the tumor remains too, so there may yet be more damage. Thanks for the info!
Brian,
I don't want to get into trying to interpret what might have been meant by other posters, but I do think you are taking a good step to lean the cause of your low T. Yours was low enough that it would concern me if I were in your shoes. For me, T supplementation is a necessary evil and the benefits far outweigh the potential side effects. I suspect it's the same for you.
What have you noticed so far Brian (with regard to the AndroGel)?
steve