I took a PCR DNA 1.5 roche 10 months after abnormal symptoms(possible ARS) which was less than 50 copies. If a person was infected at 10 months would they have a detectable viral load greater than 50? Is it possible to be infected and to have a viral load less than 50 after 10 months WITHOUT MEDS?..PLEASE ANSWER ONLY IF YOU KNOW FOR SURE??

test

Yes it is possible for somebody to have an undetectable viral load after 10 months with no meds. Not very common but yes possible.

Why don't you take an antibody test?

It is difficult to say for sure, pleasetest. This question would be a lot easier had you taken the PCR at 2-3 weeks post exposure. In the case of 10 months, the info is not always black and white for the following reasons.

During acute infection (initial) viral replication is often extremely elevated. This happens because the virus is initially targeting cells and killing what it can before the body can mount a "solid" (in quotes) immune response. After the body produces antibodies to HIV, the HIV titers in the body diminish greatly, often to a state of undetectability, although HIV continues to actively and gradually destroy the immune system.

It is because of this reason, that an undetectable PCR test at 10 months, although in the majority of the cases reliably shows infection or non-infection, throws in that little gray zone question mark.

In radical contrast, at 10 months, you can take an ELISA test which looks for antibodies to the virus. A result after 10 months will be reliably conclusive, and enough for closure in the event of a negative result.

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Best wishes.

Thanks for your responses. I did recieve a negative antibody at 10 months as well. The symptoms I experienced(fever, mouth sores,rash, headache, weight loss etc..) prompted me to test using the viral and the antibody. Is it possible that my genetic make up could cause a delayed response to the virus making me a statistical outlier? I'm sure the girl I had sex with had the virus. Any other test I could take?

It is VERY rare for someone to test negative and really be positive after the 3 month window period, that is why there is also advice for 6 month tests. There are VERY VERY few cases that take as long as a year to detect. Usually this only happens in people who are already extremly ill from other viruses or disease. So the chances that you would take longer are slim to none. There are no other tests, but if you are really worried, test again at the 1 year mark, and if your test is negative, Id say your very likley to be in the clear.

Are you SURE she had the virus?

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Good Luck and Be Safe

I agree with helpful in the stats about testing frames. However, in view of a negative ELISA I would not recommend further testing. You are HIV negative. That's it. Finito, the end. I experienced same and more symptoms, for as long as 3 monhs.

Tested neg ELISA at 2, 4.5, 7.5 months. CDC, doctors agreed that no further testing was recommended. Also, on most cases, either you have a positive PCR or a positive HIV ELISA confirmed by a Western Blot. The fact that you performed both and both came back negative, means you are definitely not infected.

As helpful point out, being "sure" somebody is positive is knowing for sure that the person has had a positive ELISA confirmed by a positive Western Blot. If you think you are sure just because this person "has slept with a lot of people", chances are overwhelmingly high that you are overreacting.



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Best wishes.

you folks are great, thanks again. I'm 99% sure the girl had HIV. Her girlfriend told me she went to the clinic and she tested positive but was afraid to tell me. I've never felt the same since exposure. My biggest fear is that I may be positive too and the tests have failed. My doctor said all my other blood tests(std tests) are fine.

anyone did you find out what caused you symptoms?

Do you have a way of comtacting the girl? Also, if she went to a clinic it is a possibility that the clinic would have contacted you and other partners the girl may have had (some clinics have a reporting policy).

As per your question, I did not for sure find out. Doctors told me it was because of the excess anxiety I was having. I may also have been infected with Mono. But Ilean towards the stress factor, because as soon as I started on anxiety medication, my symptoms started to subside.

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Best wishes.

What were your mouth sores like? I had an illness that seemed to go on forever after a date rape situation. I was on a lot of antibiotics due to a vaginal infection which was never officially diagnosed as I self medicated unfortunately. I then got the symptoms which I though had to be ARS (rash, neck swollen a bit but no real sore throat), sinusitis, on and off diarrhea and now I cannot seem to get rid of recurring vaginitis (I haven't tested positive for any STD) and mouth sores and I am at 3 month mark. I tested negative at 7 weeks and my symptoms were prior to that but now I am freaking out before my 3 month check. I have convinced myself that I would not have these mouth sores if I were negative. The jerk this occurred with has sworn that he is negative and was tested 2 months prior but how do you believe a guy when they do this. Any comment on if mouth sores would be common at this stage.

Miserable, I experienced aphtous ulcers inside my mouth, and to this date I still get them from time to time, which means they are recurrent. I didn't use to get them before my incident. However, the cause of aphtous ulcers is so diffuse, and anything can cause them. An aphtous ulcer always occurs inside the lining of the mouth, and never outside. if they are outside, they are considered cold sores, and an indication of Herpes simplex 1.

Antibiotics can drastically disrupt the immune balance in your system, allowing for things that normally dont happen. Antibiotics can cause yeast infections in the mounth. Mouth sores are not a specific symptom of HIV as isn't any other reported symptom. I would not be worried at all about the mouth sores.

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Best wishes.

I don't think the girl would give my number to them if they asked at the clinic.

-my mouth sores were like clear pimples all over the inside of my mouth(1/2 a dozen or so)..still get 1 or 2 on occasion.
-Anyone, how many months past exposure has it been for you? Would you test again just to be sure. Unexplained symptoms after sex is scary??
-Good luck Miserable. Did you press charges against this fool who violated you? I hope your test is negative.

If your sores are on the inside of your mouth and are like clear pimples, plus they hurt when you touch them or eat, then we're talking about the same thing: aphtous ulcers.

For me it has been aproximately 7.5 months. I would not test again, no. I've accepted my result. The doctor did say (at my 3 month test) that if I was still extremely worried, that I could wait to have a test done at a year, so I dont know. After my 7 month negative, I do not feel necessary to test.

Yes, symptoms are scary after sex...WITHOUT a reliable negative ELISA test at the proper time frame. But with one, they are not so scary anymore.There are thousands of things out there, for example, I cough all the time, this has been like 2 years since it started, but doctors have told me itis an allergy condition, so, there you have it, I could attribute it to HIV related cough (I had another incident about 4 years ago...tested neg 2 years later)

So that is just a pointer to the fact that you are better off not focusing on symptoms for HIV related stuff. Rely on your tests, because they are the ones who can only rule out infection.

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Best wishes.

Good advice Anyone. don't know if I can have closure?...sex+symptoms+hiv positive girl+ negative 10 month tests(viral load less than 50 copies and a negative antibody)..it doesn't make sense? I guess another test in the future will rule out or confirm the disease?? This incident has scared me to the point where I have dismissed having sexual relationships. I'll test again in 3 months to be sure.
-how much faith can I have in the 3 month window?

Just saw this post. A PCR DNA looks for the presence of HIV in the DNA of the blood cells. It is highly improbable that, after 10 months, there would be less than 50 copies.

I think people put too much faith in the 3 month window. I hate to say it but I think seroconversion is variable and if one has symptoms a few weeks after sex that resemble ARS testing should be done every six months even maybe out to 2 years. I'm assuming the 10 month negative is correct but perhaps my body is not responding to the virus yet? Maybe I'm what they call an outlier?

Why 2 years ? - In that case, if you are really an outlier you can spend the rest of your life testing and, above all, avoiding sex. The CDC is now saying that the 3 months window period is conclusive for most of the people; extending it to 6 months for rare cases.
Why not believe your results ???

Why dont you think the three month period is enough? It is recomended from the CDC that 3 months is good enough. That is after YEARS of research. There are very very few "outliers" and even at that 1 year is sufficient. The symptoms you are having could be conclusive of MANY things, a wide variety of ailments, or none at all.

Why cant you trust the result? I have trouble accepting mine. I have fear that maybe I am one of those people who takes a while to seroconvert. I never expierenced ARS symptoms, but I had a wisdon tooth come in 4 weeks after exposure, so I still question whether I was sick from the tooth or because of ARS. But I know that the chances I am taking longer are slim, and the fact that you have tested negative after 10 months is a good sign. Why 2 years? Have you found this on another website? If so, Id be interested to see what it says. You can trust the CDCs recomendations.



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Good Luck and Be Safe

the tests aren't perfect and I'm sure everyone's body reacts differently. To completely rule out the infection I'll test again maybe 1 year and a half.The girl had HIV, I had HARD CORE symptoms and there is still a possibility. I might be that 1 in 100 who seroconverts after the window. I hope not, but that's reality http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/frown.gif

Hello pleasetest. I've been reading your latest posts, and please dont take this as an offense or anything like it...but it seems to me thta you have been answering your own questions.

On one post, you say:
Good advice Anyone. don't know if I can have closure?...sex+symptoms+hiv positive girl+ negative 10 month tests(viral load less than 50 copies and a negative antibody)..it doesn't make sense? I guess another test in the future will rule out or confirm the disease?? This incident has scared me to the point where I have dismissed having sexual relationships. I'll test again in 3 months to be sure.
-how much faith can I have in the 3 month window?

But later on you talk about, how bodies react different etc.. (this, done with disregard to the fact that CDC and other organizations use a "blanket" policy to determine their window periods...that is, based on the average time it takes for people to produce antibodies, they add several more months to be on the safe side.)

No, tests are not perfect, but a test taken well after the determined wait period is as perfect as medicine can get today. Like Jide said, you can keep testing all your life...it will be a waste of money and time. Also, is not 1 of 100 who seroconverts after the window. Take in to account that although percentages are not absolute, a 6 month window guarantees a 99.99% accuracy...so...we'd be talking about .01%, which is way less than the 1% you talk about. i dont know about those hardcore symptoms, but I can assure you (from my own experience), based on what you described before, your symptoms were not "hardcore". And even if they had been...makes no difference...your tests say you are NEG. Can you get over it someday? I dont know...only you know.



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Best wishes.

I hate to ask you this Anyone, but what where your symptoms and how soon after the sexual encounter did they occur. Maybe this will help to ease my mind a bit because no way the 2 of us are outliers. Appreciate it

Maybe helpful,
I found this site from Rudolf J. Kotula, MD,from the University of Iowa that states a person could remain seronegative for up to 36 months.

"Seroconversion to HIV positive usually occurs within 9 to 12 weeks of exposure to the HIV virus, but patients may remain antibody seronegative for up to 36 months. Sequential testing may be required. CDC recommends testing high-risk individuals every 6" months. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/frown.gif
http://www.vh.org/adult/provider/familymedicine/FPHandbook/Chapter11/04-11.html

Rudolf J. Kotula, MD
Private Practice in Infectious Diseases
Methodist Hospital, Omaha, Nebraska
Peer Review Status: Externally Peer Reviewed by Mosby

That was last revised in October of 2001. Since then the CDC has changed its window period to 3 months. Also, it is listed for high risk individuals. High risk means that your exposure is great, such as MULTIPLE partners, sharing of needles, etc. Part of the reason is many times people in the high risk category dont know exactly when they could have been exposed because they participate in multiple risky acts.

You say you KNOW she is +. Even if she is, your chances of catching HIV through a single unprotected sex act is 1 in 8000. The chances it would take longer to seroconvert are even less then that.

The fact is, no one here is going to ba able to help you trust the results, or tell you whether or not your ok. Do we think you probably are? I do. But if you arent sure, and you know yourself better than anybody else does, then you should follow it with tests until you feel your results are conclusive. Keep us posted.

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Good Luck and Be Safe

Pleasetest, would it be possible to know what was exactly your risk ? You are questioning a lot your results without describing at all the risk you had.

Jide,
I had unprotected sex half a dozen times with a girl who gave me gonerrehea as well. I'm definately worried that
1. Either my immune system is not normal(making me an outlier)
2. The testing is not sensitive enough to detect the virus.
3. I still experience abnormal things such as rash, muscle loss, bleeding gums, thinner face etc.

what else can cause these unexplained symptoms after sex. The CDC is great but i'm not sure if everyone will seroconvert in that time frame...

pleastest, here are the symptoms I experienced about 7.5 months ago:

-Floaters/Blurry Vision
-Low grade to High grade fever
-Night Sweats
-Diarrhea (green stools)
-Nausea and Vomiting
-Rash on chest
-Generalized node swelling and pain
-Muscular and bone pain (arthralgia/myalgia)
-Sudden weight loss (lost 14 pounds in 3 weeks)
-Extreme depression
-Difficulty of hearing
-High sensitivity to light
-Whithish buildup on tongue
-Mouth ulcers (to this date)
-Pain in testicles
-Easy nosebleeding and decrease of blood clotting ability
-Decrease in WBC (on blood counts)
-Extreme headaches
-Complete loss of sleep


Almost all of t hem lasted for about 2 months...so there you have it.

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Best wishes.

When I thought I had been exposed, I expierenced NO symptoms, but everyone around me did. My husband developed thrush. My daughter had reoccuring vomiting and developed a terrible rash. My son had night sweats and blisters on his tonsils. I was CONVINCED I had passed it on to them, even though all the research said it was impossible to pass it through sharing food and such. I was CONVINCED the research was wrong.
My test was negative. I had fevers, nigh sweats and loss of appetite, bruising, strange purple marks on my skin,(sarcoma, I thought) bruising, even after my negative test because I had a hard time accepting it, thinking I too could be an outlier. Once my stress subsided, my symptoms cleared. Stress, worry and anxiety affects your body and mind. It weakens your system, slows your responses. It also makes you look for things, or notice things that you never noticed before.

There are alot of things that can go wrong when tests are new, but the HIV antibody test is highly sensitive. Now, if you are TRULY an outlier, then it is your BODY that is decieving you, not the test that was wrong. There are only .01% of the population that CAN seroconvert after the 6 months. Its possible, but not probable, that you are one.

I suggest you see a Doctor, and/or a health counselor, as opposed to looking up things on the internet. There is alot of outdated information out there. Really, speak with someone who can hear all your informatin and symptoms and order the testing they think would be in order.

And, talk with the girl. If you are getting this information second hand, then maybe its not coming to you right.



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Good Luck and Be Safe

Anyone
Sorry to see that you experienced such dramatic symptoms.Mine were very simular to yours minus the hearing, nose bleeds,decreased wbc and the sensitivity to light. Have doctors been able to give you any type of diagnosis? I was diagnosed as having a positive igg for ebv, but that was it.

Maybe helpful
Anything is possible. I've been evaluated by an Infectious disease doctor who said my cd4 was normal and all my other blood work was normal too.I've actually consulted with 3 doctors, the CDC, and a host of other people.There are no other tests left after a viral load test.What was your risk and how long after exposure did you and your husband test?

Anything it possible, thats for sure. The fact that your other blood work showed nothing abnormal IS a good sign. There are no other tests after the viral load test, but I meant maybe there is something BESIDES HIV that could be causing your symptoms. A Dr, given the correct history and test record might point you in the right direction. It may be something else going on that you should look into.

I tested 81 days post exposure after I had a rape encounter. Unknown status of attacker, but he ejaculated outside my body, thank god. I really have been healthy aside from stress. My husbad had thrush 4 weeks after MY encounter. He, and his Dr. decided against a test for him. I was tested as part of my pregnancy, wich occured BEFORE the encounter.(pregnancy, not test) I have guilt that I put myself in that situation, endangering my life, and fear that I could have endangered my infants life. I look everyday for symptoms in my baby.
From what I understand my risk was low. And everything I have read says the test was conclusive. But I still have fear. So from first hand expierence, STRESS can cause alot of things.

MAYBE
Sorry to hear about you rape case. I do know living in fear is not living. I'm not sure what it will take to get over this but I know Kaysmom reccomended donating blood. I may do that in about 6 months after I test again. It is a good deed for society and yourself http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif

Hey anyone,
I read that one of your symptoms was testicular pain. I have also experienced this (actually one of my only symptoms). It was the first symptom that I came down with, did you ever get an acceptable answers to what caused that? Also, how bad was the pain you experienced? Just curious as to how similar the incidents are....I have been experiencing some mild pain in my testicles as well as a "tingling" sensation that occurs way to much to be normal. Any help would be appreciated