After reading countelss posts on this topic...you guys need someone like ME, who as studied HIV for close to13 years. I am a skeptic-so I did it THOROUGHLY and intensely and from countless sources and even participatd in many risky studies MYSELF to make sure. These are the facts. All doomsayers and bitter housewives can go against me all they want...it is LIKELY they have chosen to believe scare tactics. So here we go:

1. Notice THE GENERAL POPULATION DOES NOT HAVE HIV or AIDS. Why? It's not so easy to get.

2. Once HIV hits AIR, it is dead. So those of you worrying about cuts and hand-jobs can rest. No chance there. HIV NEEDS A HOST. It is a WEAK VIRUS. That's hard for you to believe, because it has the power to kill, but it's GETTING IN YOUR SYSTEM--where it is weak. There are many factors there.


2b) An infected person is more likely to spread the disease if they have a HIGH VIRAL load. Most people with a high viral load have more important things to tend to than having sex. While it's not 100% impossible to spread the virus with a LOW viral load, it is less likely.

3. A woman has thick vaginal walls, it's not as delicate as many believe. HIV rarely enters the bloodstream via vaginal walls. Also HIV must enter the womb, it is said, and for whatever reason, that rarely happens. The chances of HIV infection via unprotected vaginal intercourse are actually 1 on 8000. Via anal intercourse it is 1 on 500.

4. If a man is ONLY having straight sex, it is extremely unlikey he has HIV, as there are no means of HIV entry into his bloodstream. WHY?

5. BECAUSE nothing enters the male urethra except bacterias (such as bacterial STD's, which HIV is NOT). Do you honestly believe that if someone were to put Cool Aid in their mouth and blow in a man's penis, that COOL AID would invade his bloodstream?! Come on! Even a catheter is for EXPULSION only. Not to mention, the chances of blood entering the male urethra AT ALL is minimal at best.

6. Gay men are not at ANYMORE risk than women! MANY> MANY women engage in anal sex with a man. The rectal area is rather delicate, but not as much as was previously believed. Your chances are 1 in 500, with unprotected anal intercouse with an infected partner. Why do many gay men have it? Because those who do NOT use condoms are no doubt exposed to HIV SEVERAL TIMES. ONE of those times it's BOUND to finally get in a persons bloodstream. So the chances of infection are higher, given those circumstances. Also, anal intercourse is a gay man's only method of penetrative sex. Not all gay men "bareback" so most gay people are not at anymore risk than anyone else.

7. Oral sex? If you RUSH home from having a root canal at the dentist's office and perform oral sex on an infected partner, you may get infected. But probably not. And who wants to perform oral sex right after dental work? Stomach acids (if semen containing HIV is swallowed) kill all HIV, with no problem.

8. Even if HIV is DIRECTLY injected into you, HIV must have a host to cling to and invade. There is not a 100% chance that will happen, although it is an outrageous risk.

9. We must never forget people in Africa are STARVING and subjected to a NUMBER of diseases. It is faster AND CHEAPER for the government to chalk it up to "another AIDS death." Also, many men engage in anal intercouse with other men to avoid ANOTHER pregnancy (in Africa) and this contributes to risk. Anal intercourse with women there, is not unusual also.

[And Magic Johnson? He got it from injecting steroids or speed...or...well....he has a secret he did not want us to know (OR his wife to know). HE DID NOT get it from "being a stud" as he'd like you to believe. (He may have had a herpes sore on his penis at the time, however).]

10. A herpes sore on a man's penis or woman's vagina is a risk factor for transmission of HIV (not to mention getting herpes!). You shouldn't be having condomless sex ANYway if you are in an active herpes stage.

So...there you have it . Here's an uncomplicated breakdown:

1. Oral sex is a VERY minimal risk. If it were a high risk, we'd ALL have HIV. Condoms for oral sex is pretty silly, but if it comforts you, that's OK. There HAVE NOT BEEN several documented cases of HIV being transmitted via oral sex. That was a lie and a scare tactic.

2. UNprotected anal intercourse is risky FOR THE RECEIVER. It is best to use condoms for this act. It is risky for the INSERTER, if they have a herpes sore, and it's risky for ALL bacterial STD's.

3. Needle injection is by far the riskiest of all.

4. There really are no "high risk groups" with the exception of needle injecting drug users and very promiscuous gay men who have unprotected sex (and these days, gay men are a lot wiser than everyone else, having been devastated by HIV and AIDS for the past 23 years).

This "on the rise" stuff is hilarious. Our sex practices HAVE NOT CHANGED IN a million years....why the hell would we ALL OF A SUDDEN change our sex lives and create an "on the rise" situation? These supposed "high risk groups" have not changed since HIV and AIDS became a global concern in 1980. This business about black gay men, or latinos or whatever being "on the rise" is dumb. IF an I repeat IF they are a "high risk group" they ALWAYS have been. Just because statistics are just being discovered NOW does not mean it's new and "on the rise." It just means it was overlooked all these years.


So DO practice safe sex, but without the frantic fear. This exaggerated fear makes sex technical and ugly. It does not have to be. If you "slip up" don't immediately think it's a death sentence, as STRESS CAN bring on HIV -like symptoms! Then you'll be REALLY stressed out.

Good luck and good sex!

Hello Mr. Devine
That was quite an informative post and I am most curious.....You say you studied HIV for thirteen years ....may I ask where you studied or from what sources you got this info?....Are you presently in the medical field in some compacity? or hold a degree of any sort in the HIV field or care for people that had HIV or AIDS. I ask because I live with an HIV positive person and do not have the virus myself and would like to know to what accuracy your statements are for obvious reasons.......but I also must say in regards to your post in general I think alot of young kids out there reading it will tend to get a false sence of security given the apparently "Low risks" you make it sound like chances are quite slim of most even getting the virus, which in turn (I think) creates an "Oh well then, why should I worry" attitude, which causes one to become careless.
Just a thought.

Just a quick question on something in your post.

"Also HIV must enter the womb."

Does this mean a pregnant women can not contract HIV since her cervix is closed during pregnancy?

And a question as to what you think of my situation. I had NON-consencual, unprotected sex. A one time POSSIBLE exposure, (I didnt know him well, and did not consent), he ejaculated outside my body, but I am unaware of any pre-ejaculation fluids. I had a NEGATIVE test at 81 days post exposure. What were my risks, and how reliable is the test at that time? Thanks!

I had not read this post before. I'm sad to say, most of the information contained in it leads me to ask the following question: What's next? That HIV does not exist?

It makes me wonder where these 13 years were spent studying. I hope it was not with the side of denialists who discourage the use of condoms and medication, adding more to this dreadful epidemic.

1.THOUSANDS of individuals of mixed sexual orientations, and ethnic backgrounds are diagnosed yearly in America alone (lets leave out Africa...since it goes without saying).

2.HIV does not survive long in open air, however, in given conditions it may last from 10 hours to a day (inside a hollow needle in the form of blood). The estimated open air lifespan is approx. 42 seconds to a minute.

2b) Correct

3. While vaginal walls maybe thick, they are still mucose membrane, making it the weakest point for transmission. That is why women are more succeptible to acquire the virus than men: More mucous tissue. I wont even go in to the womb thing...it is totally ridiculous.

4. Straight sex, best known as hetero-sex is on the rise in regards to HIV transmission, per the latest statistics. It does not matter if it is straight or gay sex. UNPROTECTED sex makes ANYONE vulnerable to acquire HIV.

5. The urethra is an significant site of tranmission for bacterial STDs. Although HIV is not bacetrial, it still targets the same kind of cells bacteria targets.

6. Correct. Again, although anal sex carries the most risk due to the high possibility of tissue damage from friction, UNPROTECTED sex is the cause of transmission, not directly the form of sex.

7.Oral sex is at the low end of the risk scale. However, when in contact with HIV through the mouth, is not the stomach acids one has to worry about, but the mucous tissue of the throat, HIV may infect the body even before it makes it to the stomach.

8.Injected HIV is one of the highest risk categories, be it by needle sharing among IV drug users, or a health-care work related needlestick. HIV HAS a host once it gets in contact with a cell.

9. I dont know where you got this information, I wont try to deny that anal sex is practiced everywhere in the world. However, avoiding pregnancy has never been proven to be a concern in Africa. Most major economic/health problems in Africa stem from the overpopulation and the rising birth rate. Magic Johnson acquired HIV through unprotected vaginal sex. There is no secret to that.

10.Absolutely right.

1.Condoms for oral sex are NOT pretty silly. Even if the tranmission through oral sex is insignificant compared to other forms of transmission, the fact is, transmission HAS occurred through receptive oral sex.

2. Unprotected anal intercourse is risky for BOTH partners, whether they have sores or not, because of the potential for skin tear due to friction.

3. Absolutely correct.

4. That to me sounds indeed like risk groups.

However maybe the case, in spite of the fact that sex practices have not changed in a long time, specific tendencies and trends are indeed on the rise...just as divorce rates are on the rise, and violence and crime fluctuate over the years. That is precisely why HIV/AIDS is regarded as an epidemic.

The fear should not be about sex at all. The fear and not so much fear, but awareness should be about UNPROTECTED sex with multiple partners. That was never a good idea in the first place, that why we have syphillis, herpes and all those other STDs.


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Best wishes.

[This message has been edited by anyone (edited 07-21-2003).]

For :Bandito: Hi. I am a research assistant for a high profile AIDs organization in Los Angeles. I went far and beyond the normal means of research asked of me, after seeing many contradictory things. I think I mentioned I have been a "guinea pig" for many clinical trials and even on a personal level (and the poster "ANYONE" probably cannot say the same...).
[ You'll all lbe inclined to ask me what these 'personal' things are, but that's just a liiiiittle too personal to give details about ]By NO means am I saying "have unsafe sex...don't worry about anything." That's ludicrous. My goal is to ease the the horror and grief of those who are waiting for an HIV test result or had a slip-up over the weekend. Scare tactics do not help these situations. I have been there (obviously) and that also provoked me to do more detailed research. About your roomate, if you are ONLY roomates, there is nothing to worry about. If you are lovers, (as I was with an HIV+ person for three years -- eh-hem.."Anyone") you should take the NORMAL precautions and you know what those are. There is no need to take unecessary risks.
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For :2Curious2--Hi! My long conversations with Dr. J.A. Sonnabend and Serge Saadoun, convinced me that access to the womb being closed off, makes transmission unlikely--but I do not believe 100%. Look up their names in Yahoo and see what you think. About your unfortunate event (this has happened to me once, and not so long ago either) after 81 days it is VERY likely you are OK. I was so stressed out I took a PCR test, which gives 24 hours results usually. That test is rarely free though unfortunately! The "window period" has also been exaggerated. After 81 days, you can be sure all is well. You can always test again to give yourself peace of mind (which is SO important). Good luck to you.
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For ANYONE: Have you been a guinea pig for ANYthing, EVER? How many times did you put yourself out on a line in the name of research to help others? How much do you know from PERSONAL experience (your OWN body). Most everything you wrote was incorrect, so I'm not going to go through it one by one. You are extremely incorrect on a few things. I am 35 and have never had all of these cuts on my penis, that everyone is so scared of. It seems some people keep zipping up too quicly--they should not drink so much, perhaps. If you can find ONE case of an insertive partner, who had no "cuts" or abrasions on his penis, no herpes sores, and contracted HIV, DO give me details. By all means, DO. Many other scenarios in your post are typical nonsense. NOW...Im not going to go back and forth with this, because I have a life outside these boards--but I will say this: no one has to believe anything they don't want to. Some people like general information to be safely in the majority, some people want to delve deeper and cut the bull****. It's their CHOICE...not yours or mine.

Mr.Devine It is good to read that you aren't interested in keeping this back and forth, I agree with it. While it is true that I haven't been a guinea pig, or boast of a 13 year research on HIV, I have had a personal an upclose experience which has prompted me to research from widely accepted (and official) sources. Nothing I'm quoting is my own invention or personal opinion. It is statements from reputable medical journals, and health organizations.

Bottom line is, like you mentioned, everyone here has the right to believe whatever they want. Trying to ease a scare does not and should not be achieved by applying "make up" to known facts, however and whatever be the research...remember there is even research that can "prove" HIV does not even exist, and many knowledgeable doctors are in on it. So I wont even go into that. If you, or anybody else want to believe I'm wrong, by all means be my guest! Maybe that way we will soon have a cure for this dreadful disease!

Thanks any way for you opinion.

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Best wishes.

[This message has been edited by anyone (edited 07-21-2003).]

Mr.Devine,

I agree with your statements that HIV isn't as easily transmitted as people think. There have been a number of studies in which people have engaged in sexual relationships with HIV+ partners for years (either unprotected or protected). The ones who used protection didn't get the disease, while about half contracted the disease without protection. Even if one was to have unprotected sex with an HIV+ person it does not mean that they will get the disease. So considering you may not even get the disease from having unprotected sex with an infected person, it makes it highly unlikely that you will catch it in other ways such as through oral sex or if the condom slips off etc. But I disagree with you in that men can most definitly catch HIV from a female. It is 50% less likely but it is incorrect to tell people that it's impossible. Plus keep in mind, since women are twice as likely to contract the disease, it's also more likely that a man will have sex with a positive woman! No one's less likely to contract this disease than anyone else. I don't feel as if your information is accurate, but I agree with the point you wanted to get across that HIV just isn't as communicable as the flu. However, I don't think telling people they shouldn't worry is the correct way of dealing with it. People should worry, it's a scary thing..

Personally, if I have questions...I'm counting on Anyone. I think Mr. Devine is being very misleading and maybe confusing his research. Before commenting on posts I always do searches to support what I read. Most things stated by Mr. Devine have not been supported by evidence through official sites. I am no genious when it comes to this subject and I will never claim to be. I am best friends with someone who is positive. I've seen people die from AIDS in ICU where I worked for many years. I've ALSO had an intimate relationship with a + MAN who is a really close friend of mine. He was a virgin when he contracted the virus. No herpes, no sores, circumsized, clean male. Can you explain that one? Your right...it's not easy to contract, but it is possible and people need to understand that. I would rather someone put me through 3-6 months of hell from stress and worrying, then tell me I'm going to be fine. The FACTS are HIV is spread daily. Whether the numbers are high or low it's out there and it's not going away anytime soon. People need to be responsible and not led to believe it's ok to engage in activities that are considered risky. So you say every 1 in 8000 people are infected, well what happens if you are giving advice to that 1 person. You need to realize a little scare is far more important than trying to diagnose someone with the research you've claimed to have been involved in. Let me just add (now this is just my opinion cause I do not know) it seems a little unusual for someone to use a negative person as a "guinea pig". I would think that would be illegal (again I'm not sure). Also, if it's a part of your job I don't understand why you would be too ashamed to share how you are being used.

As far as I know Dr. Sonnabend still clings to the theory that HIV IS NOT and CANNOT BE the cause of AIDS.

I have always thought him irrational but he continues to get adherents- not the least is the over-exposed Gary Null of daily WBAI "fame."

As I recall, in their lexicon, the syndrome of illness is caused primarily by "gay men eating poor diets and taking recreational drugs."

For a while it was REALLY REALLY "undiagnosed syphilis" (Dr. Stephen Caizza). The CURE (their words) was massive doses of a particular penicillin. Unfortunately the research was stymied when Dr. Caizza died....yep, of AIDS (of course he probably believed it was syphilis)!

BTW,
The group of the HIV naysayers agree "there is no epidemic." They're dying in Africa of starvation, in the USA of debauchery, and everywhere else of undiagnosed syphilis or TB, or mercury fillings.

Listening to any of them is a wearying experience indeed.

[This message has been edited by zip2play (edited 07-23-2003).]

Mr. Devine..I contracted HIV from a woman. I didn't have any cuts or sores. And don't tell me I did because you don't know, I DO. SO TELL ME HOW I GOT IT MR GENIUS.

Don't come on an HIV support board and think you know the virus better than the people who live it do.

Whatever the intentions of Mr Devine be, but it is certainly misleading. The fact is that
statistics speak for themselves. HIV is a scourge and the only way to deal with it is by
PREVENTION.
Many people come here to seek answers to their question which is "I had unprotected
vaginal sex this way. Will I be infected " . The answer to that is "if that was your unlucky
day, you would be infected.To make sure get tested at 3 months ". The truth is that
although HIV may be difficult to transmit, it gets transmitted and millions of people
have it.
Also the initial HIV symptoms mimic stress-related symptoms. Don't kill yourselves with
stress. Nobody except the lab-tests can tell you that you have HIV or not.

PREVENTION IS BETTER THAN CURE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

GET TESTED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't listen to this divine idiot. I once bought into the theory that as a non drug using, heterosexual woman, I didn't need to worry about hiv. Guess what? I've been hiv positive for six years now, through unprotected vaginal sex with a non drug using heterosexual man.

To Mr. Devine: how can you explain that currently, more than 40 million people have been infected by HIV ? and the current rate is 5,000,000 new infections per year. I really doubt your theories...

sorry about asking this but how many exposures after did u become pozitive and did u just make vajinal sex ? im really sorry and hope the treatment will find and was the 3 mo window period was true for u?

bluees, I do not know if the question was for me. Anyway, I am in the window period (currently in my sixth week). I read a lot about HIV because I had a risky situation 2 years ago and I fell in that trap again this summer. Although I tested negative at week 4, I have had (and still have) ars symptoms. Got tested this week and anxiously waiting for the results (today or Monday)

dear jide
i hope u will tested negative im also nearly on youýr sitiuation i make vajinal sex(im guy) 6 mo ago and i take 2 negative results on 89 and 123 day with eliza but i dont know which jeneration was my tests its making me scared too much i hope both of us are negative

Bluees,

You not even worry about your situation! Being tested neg after 6 months means that you can definitely rule out any HIV infection.

Keep safe!

to I speak from experience: Could you plz let us know if you were exposed repeatedly to the HIV+ man, or was this just a one time exposure? Also, could you plz tell us how long after exposure that you seroconverted?

The following is from the Straight Dope boards:

The following numbers are old, and they're all pretty much guesswork anyway, so take them with a grain of salt. But I venture to say most people in the field would agree with my conclusions.

According to a report by researchers Norman Hearst and Stephen Hulley in the Journal of the American Medical Association, the odds of a heterosexual becoming infected with AIDS after one episode of penile-vaginal intercourse with someone in a non-high-risk group without a condom are one in 5 million. With a condom it's even safer--one in 50 million. Just to put this in perspective, the chances of someone in your family getting injured next year in a bubble bath are 1 in 1.3 million (source: The Odds on Virtually Everything, Heron House, 1980). You're in much greater danger of being struck by lightning (1 in 600,000), having your house bombed (1 in 290,000), or being murdered (1 in 11,000).

The numbers get a lot worse if you engage in "high-risk behavior"--having sexual intercourse or sharing needles with a member of a high-risk group, e.g., a gay or bisexual male or IV drug user from a major metro area, or a hemophiliac. The chances of getting AIDS from one such encounter range as high as 1 in 10,000 using a condom to 1 in 1,000 unprotected. Even if your partner tests negative for human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), the chances of infection from a high-risk person are still relatively high--1 in 50,000 without a condom. That's because there's a 45 to 90 day window during which a newly infected person can infect others but test negative. (A few people go as long as 180 days.)

From there on out, statistically speaking, things deteriorate pretty fast. If your partner is HIV-positive, your chances of getting AIDS after one night are 1 in 5,000 with a condom, 1 in 500 without. Have sex with an HIV-positive partner 500 times using condoms and your chances escalate to 1 in 11. Skip the gift wrap and they're 2 in 3.

A couple points: These odds apply equally to men and women. Although there's reason to believe male-to-female AIDS transmission happens more often than female-to-male, the amount of difference is unknown. Also, I have to emphasize again, the numbers involve a lot of guesswork. The authors admit they could be off by a factor of ten in either direction. Still, one message comes through loud and clear: by far the best thing you can do to avoid AIDS is to be picky about your partners. Use of condoms reduces your risk by a factor of 10, sleeping only with people who test negative reduces it by a factor of 5 to 50, but avoiding high-risk partners reduces it by a factor of 5,000. (You'd also be well advised to avoid high-risk behavior, such as unprotected receptive anal sex.) Asking for a resume may not be romantic, but it beats Kaposi's sarcoma.

Yup....Although the poster above acknowledges this info is based considerably on guesswork and statistical info (careful when aplying this individually, it does not always work). I agree, and could not have said it better:

Be picky about your partners, use protection, and be on the lookout. With this, you will protect yourself and others who in the future may come in contact with you.

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Best wishes.

Bump

Yes, indeedie!