slide
08-25-2008, 11:13 AM
Is it possible to have both ADD and SAD? I'm a 24 year old male. I was diagnosed with social anxiety disorder about 3 years ago, in truth I've had it for probably more like 10 but I finally got the courage up to go the doctor about it. Unfortunately the medicine that I was put on had bad side effects and so now I'm not on any medication. I was brought to the doctor about ADD when I was younger but the doctor more so just looked at me and because I was sitting still and focused, which was mostly because I was terrified about the doctor, diagnosed me as not having ADD. I still feel I have many of the symptoms associated with ADD. Its hard for me to put how I feel in words but I've looked at a lot of the ADD questionnaires and they say I'm highly likely to have ADD. <On one questionaire> I scored a 94. I'm also really nervous about asking the doctor about ADD. I really feel I have it, but I've heard that doctors are suspicious when asking about ADD and if he says I don't have it then I'm not sure what else to do.
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addprogrammer
08-25-2008, 11:23 PM
slide,
It is possible to have ADHD and SAD. Furthermore, ADHD can cause SAD.
Post your ADHD symptoms. The practice could very well enable you to talk with to a doctor about it.
Were you a space cadet in school? Did you have problems doing homework? Has concentration always been a struggle? If not, when are you able to concentrate? How have your symptoms adversely affected your life?
Ask yourself questions like those above and write down your answers. You need not post your answers if that makes you feel uncomfortable. I suggest you do, though, because we can help you refine a convincing symptom report that any good doctor will respect.
Bob
It is possible to have ADHD and SAD. Furthermore, ADHD can cause SAD.
Post your ADHD symptoms. The practice could very well enable you to talk with to a doctor about it.
Were you a space cadet in school? Did you have problems doing homework? Has concentration always been a struggle? If not, when are you able to concentrate? How have your symptoms adversely affected your life?
Ask yourself questions like those above and write down your answers. You need not post your answers if that makes you feel uncomfortable. I suggest you do, though, because we can help you refine a convincing symptom report that any good doctor will respect.
Bob
index.html
08-25-2008, 11:55 PM
Yes, it's definitely possible to have both. In fact, it's quite common to have other co-existing conditions with ADD.
I like Bob's suggestion to list your ADD symptoms (either here or on your own). As he said, that will help you in "presenting your case" to the doc. Personally, I think most docs would be open to your exploring the possibility of ADD. It's when people go in asking for a med (especially when people ask for a specific med), that they get suspicious.
Welcome.
I like Bob's suggestion to list your ADD symptoms (either here or on your own). As he said, that will help you in "presenting your case" to the doc. Personally, I think most docs would be open to your exploring the possibility of ADD. It's when people go in asking for a med (especially when people ask for a specific med), that they get suspicious.
Welcome.
slide
08-26-2008, 12:26 PM
Ok it's hard for me to get my feelings down on paper but I'll try to explain it as best I can.
When I was in elementary school I got mostly good grades in the normal subjects but always got really bad grades for behavior. Finally (I'm not sure why) they placed me in the Gifted and Talented program which was just about 7 students. I don't think my behavior got any better but at least I was getting more personalized attention.
In my 6th grade year I remember a very life changing event, though at the time I didn't consciously think anything of it. An older boy at school committed suicide. My friends and I didn't really know him that well so after a couple of weeks the gloomy spirit of the school for us began to let up. One day on the bus ride home we were being our normal obnoxious selves, especially to this older girl who the bus driver put in charge of keeping us under control. The next morning when I got to the bus stop my best friend told me that she had committed suicide as well. He then looked me dead in the eye and said 'You killed her'.
I can distinctly remember before that day being able to 'be myself' and afterward I can't remember a single day when I could. I found out later that the girl and boy had formed a pact, where if one committed suicide the other one would as well but the damage to me had already been done.
School got even more difficult for me and I went through a very rebellious time and almost failed a lot of my classes in middle school and finally my parents took me to a center for trouble teens but just to scare me. I guess it worked because I didn't act out much after that.
In high school I mostly kept to myself and my sister and cousin but never really connected with anyone. I never studied because I would get frustrated so I got out of the gifted program and into the 'normal' classes. My high school was one in which a lot of the trouble makers in town would get bussed to and so my classes were not difficult at all for me. I could get by fine with ok grades. By my senior year I had gotten some friends, but I felt like I wasn't like everyone else so they weren't deep friendships. To fit in more with them and away from the delinquents in my classes I rejoined the gifted classes and did well, even though I still never studied. I found that I could just listen in class and remember most everything to get by, although at times that failed horribly.
College was pretty easy at first as the freshman/sophomore general education classes didn't require too much out of class studying. I got mostly B/C's with the occasional A's. For my primary degree it was a little more tough and most of the time me and my friends would stay up all night previous to a test/homework drinking energy drinks to stay awake to memorize the material for the next day. I managed to graduate (barely).
In January I started a new job in a new city. So for the past 9 months I've had to face a lot of my SAD symptoms head on. For the most part I'm managing but I still have no friends and I try to drive home almost every 2/3 weeks. It's very hard for me to complete my work and I find myself not even trying because then I will be given more responsibility which will frustrate me even more and make my anxiety worse as well.
Outside of work I want to work on lots of projects. I have so many things I want to complete in my life but every time I sit down to work on them I get either bored or frustrated when it gets even a little difficult and I have to go do something else, most of the time I play Xbox but that only holds my attention for a little bit too. If I could only concentrate and not be frustrated I feel my life would be so much better. It’s effected my work, social life and my interests and I really don't want to live with it anymore!
When I was in elementary school I got mostly good grades in the normal subjects but always got really bad grades for behavior. Finally (I'm not sure why) they placed me in the Gifted and Talented program which was just about 7 students. I don't think my behavior got any better but at least I was getting more personalized attention.
In my 6th grade year I remember a very life changing event, though at the time I didn't consciously think anything of it. An older boy at school committed suicide. My friends and I didn't really know him that well so after a couple of weeks the gloomy spirit of the school for us began to let up. One day on the bus ride home we were being our normal obnoxious selves, especially to this older girl who the bus driver put in charge of keeping us under control. The next morning when I got to the bus stop my best friend told me that she had committed suicide as well. He then looked me dead in the eye and said 'You killed her'.
I can distinctly remember before that day being able to 'be myself' and afterward I can't remember a single day when I could. I found out later that the girl and boy had formed a pact, where if one committed suicide the other one would as well but the damage to me had already been done.
School got even more difficult for me and I went through a very rebellious time and almost failed a lot of my classes in middle school and finally my parents took me to a center for trouble teens but just to scare me. I guess it worked because I didn't act out much after that.
In high school I mostly kept to myself and my sister and cousin but never really connected with anyone. I never studied because I would get frustrated so I got out of the gifted program and into the 'normal' classes. My high school was one in which a lot of the trouble makers in town would get bussed to and so my classes were not difficult at all for me. I could get by fine with ok grades. By my senior year I had gotten some friends, but I felt like I wasn't like everyone else so they weren't deep friendships. To fit in more with them and away from the delinquents in my classes I rejoined the gifted classes and did well, even though I still never studied. I found that I could just listen in class and remember most everything to get by, although at times that failed horribly.
College was pretty easy at first as the freshman/sophomore general education classes didn't require too much out of class studying. I got mostly B/C's with the occasional A's. For my primary degree it was a little more tough and most of the time me and my friends would stay up all night previous to a test/homework drinking energy drinks to stay awake to memorize the material for the next day. I managed to graduate (barely).
In January I started a new job in a new city. So for the past 9 months I've had to face a lot of my SAD symptoms head on. For the most part I'm managing but I still have no friends and I try to drive home almost every 2/3 weeks. It's very hard for me to complete my work and I find myself not even trying because then I will be given more responsibility which will frustrate me even more and make my anxiety worse as well.
Outside of work I want to work on lots of projects. I have so many things I want to complete in my life but every time I sit down to work on them I get either bored or frustrated when it gets even a little difficult and I have to go do something else, most of the time I play Xbox but that only holds my attention for a little bit too. If I could only concentrate and not be frustrated I feel my life would be so much better. It’s effected my work, social life and my interests and I really don't want to live with it anymore!
addprogrammer
08-27-2008, 11:12 AM
I never studied because I would get frustrated so I got out of the gifted program and into the 'normal' classes.
Outside of work I want to work on lots of projects. I have so many things I want to complete in my life but every time I sit down to work on them I get either bored or frustrated when it gets even a little difficult and I have to go do something else, most of the time I play Xbox but that only holds my attention for a little bit too. If I could only concentrate and not be frustrated I feel my life would be so much better. It’s effected my work, social life and my interests and I really don't want to live with it anymore!
slide,
In my layman not a medical professional opinion but from the standpoint of someone who has lived with ADHD for 56 years, the probability is very high, say, 98%, that you have ADHD. It is also my opinion that another disorder, most likely SAD is along for the ride. The probability is 100% that your placement in gifted was no mistake. That is where you belong. ADHD pulled you out.
You list mostly the secondary effect, "frustration," in your description. Frustration can come from lot of causes one of which is the work is too difficult, beyond our inherent capabilites. But it your case, I'm sure that is not the case.
The doctor that concluded you can't be ADHD because you "looked" focused only reinforces my firmly held opinion that most GP's are STUPID IDIOTS because they try to diagnose complex mental disorders instead of giving a referal. If that doctor was a shrink, that reinforces my firmly held opinion that a significant percentage of shrinks are dumber than dumb GP's. I'm not off on a rant, so let's go to relevancy.
If you take your case to someone not qualified, you're dead in the water before you even get into the office. So find a qualified doctor or a psychologist that has the training and the experience. Otherwise you'll get some bozo who can't see past the symptoms and get at the cause.
Being able to do gifted in grammar school but not in high school and successfully graduating college (even though just barely) are the ADHD factor give aways. The balance of your description gives good clues on the co-existing disorder. Don't edit a thing. You could print it out, take it with you, give it to the doctor to read. As long as you don't pick a bozo, the doctor will immediately understand why you gave him a written rather than a verbal description.
Your initial post gave me the impression that ADD less the H might be the problem. Let's stick the "H" back in. I suspect the secondary disorder is suppressing the hyperactivity symptom. I have a similar situation.
Bob
Outside of work I want to work on lots of projects. I have so many things I want to complete in my life but every time I sit down to work on them I get either bored or frustrated when it gets even a little difficult and I have to go do something else, most of the time I play Xbox but that only holds my attention for a little bit too. If I could only concentrate and not be frustrated I feel my life would be so much better. It’s effected my work, social life and my interests and I really don't want to live with it anymore!
slide,
In my layman not a medical professional opinion but from the standpoint of someone who has lived with ADHD for 56 years, the probability is very high, say, 98%, that you have ADHD. It is also my opinion that another disorder, most likely SAD is along for the ride. The probability is 100% that your placement in gifted was no mistake. That is where you belong. ADHD pulled you out.
You list mostly the secondary effect, "frustration," in your description. Frustration can come from lot of causes one of which is the work is too difficult, beyond our inherent capabilites. But it your case, I'm sure that is not the case.
The doctor that concluded you can't be ADHD because you "looked" focused only reinforces my firmly held opinion that most GP's are STUPID IDIOTS because they try to diagnose complex mental disorders instead of giving a referal. If that doctor was a shrink, that reinforces my firmly held opinion that a significant percentage of shrinks are dumber than dumb GP's. I'm not off on a rant, so let's go to relevancy.
If you take your case to someone not qualified, you're dead in the water before you even get into the office. So find a qualified doctor or a psychologist that has the training and the experience. Otherwise you'll get some bozo who can't see past the symptoms and get at the cause.
Being able to do gifted in grammar school but not in high school and successfully graduating college (even though just barely) are the ADHD factor give aways. The balance of your description gives good clues on the co-existing disorder. Don't edit a thing. You could print it out, take it with you, give it to the doctor to read. As long as you don't pick a bozo, the doctor will immediately understand why you gave him a written rather than a verbal description.
Your initial post gave me the impression that ADD less the H might be the problem. Let's stick the "H" back in. I suspect the secondary disorder is suppressing the hyperactivity symptom. I have a similar situation.
Bob
slide
08-27-2008, 02:06 PM
Thank you very much for your help so far. Having an outside person confirm what I think is a big help.
What kind of qualifications for a doctor should I look for? If I can get a psychologist on my health plan would it be preferable to see them? I havn't had much experience dealing with health care by myself so most of this will be new to me. I am on United Health Care if anyone has that and could recommend the path to take with them. Thanks
What kind of qualifications for a doctor should I look for? If I can get a psychologist on my health plan would it be preferable to see them? I havn't had much experience dealing with health care by myself so most of this will be new to me. I am on United Health Care if anyone has that and could recommend the path to take with them. Thanks
addprogrammer
08-27-2008, 02:56 PM
slide,
I don't have UHC but I'm familiar with it and it's a good company.
Can you get a referral from family or friends?
I think I'd go with a psychologist in your case because like me you evidently don't have "simple" ADHD. Psychologists are the guys that got the battery of tests required to ferret out cause in complex cases - more than one brain bug per brain.
If you can't get a referral, see if UHC can scare up a referral. If that fails, check the yellow pages looking for "ADHD" in the ad.
Bob
I don't have UHC but I'm familiar with it and it's a good company.
Can you get a referral from family or friends?
I think I'd go with a psychologist in your case because like me you evidently don't have "simple" ADHD. Psychologists are the guys that got the battery of tests required to ferret out cause in complex cases - more than one brain bug per brain.
If you can't get a referral, see if UHC can scare up a referral. If that fails, check the yellow pages looking for "ADHD" in the ad.
Bob
slide
09-08-2008, 10:32 AM
So I have an appointment tomorrow to get tested (a regular doctor, I couldn't figure out what to do for a psychologist so I took the easy route, plus its probably a lot cheaper this way =\). I'm going to print out the stuff I wrote but what if he thinks I don't have ADHD? I really feel like I have it but I just need something that helps me. Also, I'm not sure if I should try to inform myself about the medication available or just go in blind, I don't want him to think I just want a certain medication. I'm just nervous (stupid S.A.D.) so getting answers to questions helps a bit. Is he just going to ask me questions or is there like a questionnaire/test that is given?
addprogrammer
09-08-2008, 07:12 PM
So I have an appointment tomorrow to get tested (a regular doctor
See how it goes with your GP.
Be careful about identifying what ails you as positively ADHD. The complexity of mental disorders is about the only item I'll get dogmatic about. I got tired of eating crow. I'm not retracting my layman diagnostics. Simply leave room for another bug possibility. If ADHD is not at root, that doesn't mean you don't have attention problems. Don't rule out other possible causes for you attention problems before you see all the cards on the table. Think likely ADHD. Let the doctor say "positively." If the tomorrow guy isn't qualified get someone who is.
A general observation: How much did your college education set you back or your parents back? How much is that education worth with an unmitigated bug bugging your brain?
I would think nothing of spending a few thou right out of my pocket to fix the only thing that can fix everything else in my life even if I had to borrow the dough to get in pocket to take out of pocket. The bug(s) must be shot dead at all costs or the bug(s) can possible shoot everything else in your life dead.
I know it sucks forking over hard earned money when insurance should pick up the tab. Been there, done that, and it SUCKS. Trying to work with my HMO was one the one item that set me back most. My GP was not allowed to refer a shrink by HMO rules. Perhaps I'm not the only one to conclude most shrinks are quacks. Just remember I said "MOST." Most is still more than my pdoc (notice I didn't say "shrink" which is well merited contempt). There is more than one good pdoc. I don't know where the rest of the good ones are though.
I'm still in on the psychologist gambit as best bet your case. Shrinks or pdocs in my neck of Penn's woods write prescriptions - no small task involving formidable training and skills. But it is the psychologists that do the brain diagnostic debugging grunt work. I don't know if I can maintain my old position that if its simple ADHD a simpleton doctor can manage it. I do know that once a second layer of brain bug abstraction goes on the heap, the simple (which is not really simple) becomes the mind boggling, brain numbing, stupefyingly complex. That sounds like a specialist gets called in to me. Said specialist is a psychologist.
It may never come to you picking up your own tab. Don't fail to get skilled medical counsel if it does come to that. Do not be penny wise and millions stupid if viewed over the lost earning potential a brain bug has cost many and could cost you.
You are a smart guy with sizable earning potential. Don't trash it. Get help one way or another.
Bob
See how it goes with your GP.
Be careful about identifying what ails you as positively ADHD. The complexity of mental disorders is about the only item I'll get dogmatic about. I got tired of eating crow. I'm not retracting my layman diagnostics. Simply leave room for another bug possibility. If ADHD is not at root, that doesn't mean you don't have attention problems. Don't rule out other possible causes for you attention problems before you see all the cards on the table. Think likely ADHD. Let the doctor say "positively." If the tomorrow guy isn't qualified get someone who is.
A general observation: How much did your college education set you back or your parents back? How much is that education worth with an unmitigated bug bugging your brain?
I would think nothing of spending a few thou right out of my pocket to fix the only thing that can fix everything else in my life even if I had to borrow the dough to get in pocket to take out of pocket. The bug(s) must be shot dead at all costs or the bug(s) can possible shoot everything else in your life dead.
I know it sucks forking over hard earned money when insurance should pick up the tab. Been there, done that, and it SUCKS. Trying to work with my HMO was one the one item that set me back most. My GP was not allowed to refer a shrink by HMO rules. Perhaps I'm not the only one to conclude most shrinks are quacks. Just remember I said "MOST." Most is still more than my pdoc (notice I didn't say "shrink" which is well merited contempt). There is more than one good pdoc. I don't know where the rest of the good ones are though.
I'm still in on the psychologist gambit as best bet your case. Shrinks or pdocs in my neck of Penn's woods write prescriptions - no small task involving formidable training and skills. But it is the psychologists that do the brain diagnostic debugging grunt work. I don't know if I can maintain my old position that if its simple ADHD a simpleton doctor can manage it. I do know that once a second layer of brain bug abstraction goes on the heap, the simple (which is not really simple) becomes the mind boggling, brain numbing, stupefyingly complex. That sounds like a specialist gets called in to me. Said specialist is a psychologist.
It may never come to you picking up your own tab. Don't fail to get skilled medical counsel if it does come to that. Do not be penny wise and millions stupid if viewed over the lost earning potential a brain bug has cost many and could cost you.
You are a smart guy with sizable earning potential. Don't trash it. Get help one way or another.
Bob