Hello,

I was wondering if any of you folks had any thoughts on couples that are biologically able to bear children but, for whatever reason, decide not to?

That was me up to about 4 years ago. When my first niece was born, I had a huge change of heart. There is nothing wrong with being voluntarily childless. However, children are extremely wonderful gifts whether you conceive, adopt, or become a foster parent.

I think it is completely up to each individual or couple as to whether or not they want to have children. I hold not gurdges towards them. They may some day have a huge change of heart and want children. Not having them regardless of whether or not they can is completely up to them.

I agree...and it is better to live with this choice than with other choices in cases of unwanted pregnancies.

I think people who don't want children shouldn't have them, but they should not pick on those of us who do. I was really frustrated this summer when a friend's husband was talking about how he doesn't want any more-(he has one from each of 2 marriages) and asked where do you draw the line on how many, etc. Said he didn't think people should have more than 2 or 3. I think I'd like to have a housefull if I could pull it off!

Is there a reason why you think you'd like to have a housefull, Emster?

My bosses have no children and my male boss seems to hate them. If there are children in a restaurant where he is eating and they get too loud he will walk out. He also doesn't know why anyone would want them. But, on the other hand they are very good about me calling in when my daughter is sick. I haven't told them we are ttc b/c I don't want to listen to his BS about why people shouldn't have kids. I respect their decision though not to have any and in turn feel they should respect that I do not hate children.

Amy

P.S. to each his own.

I too think it's up to each individual if they want children or not. If they can have them but really don't want them then don't bring a child into this world that will be hated. But also if you had the chance to be a serogat (spelling) mother for someone who couldn't have a child would you be willing to do that. Personally the gift of having children was taken away from me in my early twenties so sometimes I feel that i hate children because i can't have any. Hope that makes sense.

I think you give up something when you have kids ,and you give up something when you don't. It is definitely up to the individual. I have people tell me that their life was not complete until they had children! Oh please, as if your life was missing something before having children? That comment irritates me more, I guess because I am having trouble having one, and am bothered that they may feel MY life is incomplete....my own insecurities, I guess....

I think its up to the couple if they choose to have children or not. However, I have formed my own opinions about this subject and it changes depending on the couple I'm thinking about.

For example: A friend of mine was married last June. She and I always talked about having children and what our lives would be like as they grew. But when I asked her how soon they were thinking of trying to have children, she responded by saying, "oh, we aren't going to complicate our lives with kids. Dh was going to pay for a boob job for her and they were going to spend their lives traveling and partying." I thought it was a selfish, self-centered comment to make and I think they are stupid.

However: My cousin is 38 years old and a wonderful man that has married for the 2nd time. He is very involved with the community and busy with his job and the National Guards. My own children make him nervous and he's always told me that his dogs are like his children and he could never handle having some of his own. I can appreciate that and don't have a problem with that.

Finally: When I'm in the grocery store and I'm forced to watch a worn out mother of 5 scream at her children...I think, why did you have this many? Sometimes, if people were forced to deal with infertility and loss due to m/c, sadly maybe they would appreciate their own children which are a true gift from God. I know my own battles with these issues has taught me the value of pregnancy and the gift of a newborn child.

I'm all over the board with my opinion but I think what I'm trying to say is it's different for everyone and the opinion is different as well.

Jodie

Its up the person. My sister has infertility issues, (she has one child already but can't get pregnant with another). Thats why I go to this board, to relay any information I can for her. I, on the other hand, do not want children. My husband is fine with that decison.

Originally posted by crazy2tryagain:


For example: A friend of mine was married last June. She and I always talked about having children and what our lives would be like as they grew. But when I asked her how soon they were thinking of trying to have children, she responded by saying, "oh, we aren't going to complicate our lives with kids. Dh was going to pay for a boob job for her and they were going to spend their lives traveling and partying." I thought it was a selfish, self-centered comment to make and I think they are stupid.


Jodie

I don't mean any disrespect, Jodie, but I have to disagree. I don't think they are being stupid at all. I think it is wonderful that they have sense to admit that they don't want children because other things are more important to them - socializing and traveling. Everyone has different priorities and I say "way to go" to the people who have thought about them. I don't believe they are being selfish - being selfish is when people don't have the courage to admit (or the brains to think) that children are not their top priority because society, in general, looks down on "those" people and so they have children, but still keep partying their top priority.

Again, Jodie, hope this doesn't make you upset, I just wanted to offer another view on the situation!

Alaina: This does not upset me. However, I think I need to elaborate on this particular situation. I do believe that it is a personal choice. What I neglected to add about my friend is that she also has an 8 yr old son from a previous relationship. She always told me that she didn't want him to be an only child but her marriage to this "new" man changed her views. Their idea of "party" life is more than just drinking and YES, I do think she is stupid for her decision. She has changed as a person and I am concerned what type of a life she plans to provide for her son when she's concerned about her boobs or where her next joint is coming from!
When 2 people make a decision NOT to have children, I think that decision should be made because they are being "responsible" and I feel my friend is being self-centered and reckless. And for lack of a better word, STUPID.
Sorry if I offended anyone else out there. My opinions expressed here were based on individual experiences and were not meant in any way to single any of you out. I appoligize for the misunderstanding. Jodie

Crazy and Elina,

I have to agree with both of you. Crazy's friend is very selfish and self centered, especially after reading the second post by Crazy, BUT I also agree with you Elina, if she hadn't already had a child, I think it is better if people who care to live out a wild life style do not have children at all. Think of all the children that spend the weekends (the only time their parents aren't consumed by work and other priorities) with a babysitter or alone. I think it is wrong. If you make the decision to be a parent - planned or not - you better buck up and take on the responsibility and put your whole heart and sole into it, or give them up for adoption to someone who will love that child with their hear and sole.

I know plent of career oriented people that do not have children and are great people, well rounded, well educated and they along with their spouses have decided that they are content with not having children and that is fine with me.

Keep this in mind, many people who really want children and can't have them would rather say "No, we don't want children" than to have to say "Oh, the reason that we don't have any children is b/c when I was 19 I had such severe endometriosis that the scar tissue and whatever else has kept me barren" Which answer do you think is easier to give? I would opt for the first one, especially with people that I am only an acquintance and not a close friend.

Just had to vent a little - thanks for listening.

amy

Thanks for the support, Amy. I really was probably venting about a particular couple and not the general population. I agree with your comments TOTALLY and actually know people like that. The first thing we always think is "why did they have children?" It's so sad when couples make that committment and then put their child at the bottom of the priorities list.

I also agree about your 2nd comment when couples aren't able to conceive. When you think about it, that really is a personal question and is sometimes difficult to discuss even among friends. We have been TTC for 5 years off/on and after our m/c in January 2002, people continue to ask me if we're going to try again. No one really knows that we have suffered another m/c and continue to try. It's none of their business and I hate explaining so I tell them no. Even our families have no idea we are TTC right now!

Anyway, I just had to vent. You made an excellent point, Amy...Thanks! Jodie

crazy - I know exactly what you mean. People are very inconsiderate at times and others they are down righr rude. I have a friend (who knows how long we have been ttc and about my m/c's) and she gets pg and has the nerve to say "Hurry up Amy, you need to get pg so we can be pg together." As if I wouldn't "hurry up" if at all possible. I wanted to reach through the phone and deck her. It really pi""ed me off. I have another friend who when she found out she was pg with her 4th baby balled b/c she didn't want to pg - I almost cried to myself thinking "you have no idea how blessed you really are". After the initial fact hit her, she was excited and is a very good mom.

I think people just need to stop and think before they open their mouths.

Amy

Wow you guys are so right when you say telling the truth is harder then lying. People keep asking me the same question over and over when are you going to have a child. That question really hurts since the blessing of having a child is over for me. I found out at the age of 27 that my body had already entered the stages of menopause actually in my early 20's. For all them years i spent fooling myself was a waste of time since i never could have children. Now i am finally facing it but still hide in the dark around others. I see a lot of people who are mistreating their child/children and not realizing how lucky they really are. It's a lonely world when you know a family is something you can't have and others are taking it as a joke. therefore, when people ask me I just tell them I don't want children. Yes that is much easier and less heartbreaking to say.
pennyb

Penny--I'm so sorry! I just read your post. I've never heard of such a thing. I didn't know your body could go through menopause at such a young age. Is that due to heredity? I'm very sorry....Jodie

Penny, I am in a similiar situation as you, went through premature menopause at age 19 due to chemotherapy!!

I also agree about it being easier to lie! We are going through the adoption process and the first thing people say is "Can't you have your own kids?" Well, first of all I think "Congratulations" should be the first thing said, second we ARE having our own kids - they WILL be our own and third, it is none of their business! Next time someone asks, whick I assume will be very soon I will say something like "I won't be offended that you asked, if you won't be offended that I don't answer." or "Why would you ask that?" It puts the pressure back on them for asking such a personal question and hopefully they will realize it isn't any of their business.

Jodie - it IS a much different situation if they already have a child!

Penny & Alaina,

I am so sorry to hear that from both of you but thank God for the option of adoption. I just got my adoption application in the mail yesterday. I am still hesitant if I want to go through with it. We have two children and we can't afford a private adoptoin so we would have to go through the state and it sounds like a much more difficult process adn you run a much higher risk of having a child with mental, emotional, or physical problems. DO NOT get me wrong I am not being picky but I have to take our other two children into consideration and would not want adopting a child to take away from them (i.e., a child that has been physically or sexually abused may be very violent towards its adoptinve family b/c it doesn't know how to react to the situation). With love, time, and patience, however, you will prevail. The other downfall is it is nearly impossible to adopt a new born or infant.

Just a few thoughts and comments -

Amy

Hi everyone,
It is really painful when people keep on asking why we are not trying for a child.i sometimes wonder to how many people and how many times i have to answer that we r draining our bodies to get pregnant.Infact to be honest i haven't told anyone that we are trying a lot because i feel it is a very personal matter......moreover i hate to hear the word infertile.

r_bis......I know exactly how you feel. I hate that word, Infertile. When I call my dr's office, the nurse always asks my name and then says, "oh, your one of the infertility patients". I just HATE it! I feel like I walk around with a special sign that says HEY I CANT GET PREGNANT!! It's not easy to discuss with people. Many of my friends are having babies or getting pg and the question always comes up, "are you going to try again". Sometimes, I just tell them, "yes, we are having sex!" It's so personal and many people don't think before they ask. Jodie

I think the next time someone says "Are you trying to get pg, are you pg yet, or don't you and Dh want to have a child together" I will say "Well Gees, since you feel so comfortable discussing my personal life, why don't you call me the next time you are going to make love to your husband, or the next time your going to try having a baby, or the next time you want to have a child and can't" of course I wouldn't really say that but STUPID and INCONSIDERATE people deserve to have it said to them!

My female boss is voluntarily childless. So is a 35 yr-old coworker, who actually had a hysterectomy at age 30 (due to severe endometriosis). So are 3 more coworkers, come to think of it. I have no problem with it. It's their life, and it's their choice.

My only problem comes from working for a female who does not understand the need to bear children. It was very hard for her to see me adopt from Russia. She thought I was crazy and at one point when I was stressed she actually tried to tell me it was a sign that I shouldn't adopt! And now that I am preparing to start IVF, she has to work very hard to be "politically correct." Legally, she cannot fire me for missing work for infertility treatment (thanks to the Americans with Disabilities act), but she can give me a massive "passive agressive" guilt trip. It just eats her up that an employee of hers has to leave work early to - horror of all horrors - tend to a sick child. Or get, as she puts it, "elective" medical procedures done (such as my upcoming lap). But I figure as long as my work is not suffering (which it isn't), and as long as they continue to allow employees in other departments to leave for children/personal/medical issues, then she can't really say anything. Knowing she is against having children sometimes makes me uncomfortable from a work standpoint, but I don't ever fault her decision to choose career over children.

Lemondog- how far are you on the IVF stuff? i will be starting at the beginning of May. I have an appt next week to discuss it all http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif

Great Thread! What a great way for us childless women to let off some stress!

My two cents: I only know of three couples who want to/wanted to stay childless. All three are fairly materialistic, into themselves, buying things, very specific hobbies. I imagine that they feel if they had a child, they couldn't be the child. They could not go on trips at a moments notice, or spend hours a day on their hobbies. I work with the husband of one couple. He underwent a vasectomy at the time I was making my first IVF attempt. I listened to him discuss in detail his pin-prick (no pun) nudgy-numbing shot, knowing i would be receiving two injections in my stomach that night for a totally different reason. The second couple is enjoying much needed time together...I am glad they have not had kids, because she now has cancer and deserves all of her husband's attention. The third couple, my brother and sister-in-law, never wanted to have kids, or get married. Now my nephew is the love or their life, and they claim they had no idea of what they might have missed. I'm glad they got to find out. Thanks for listening.

I agree with Whiskerkittens, this has be a good thread to read. Great discussion.

Thank you to ALL of you for making me feel like I'm not the only person who doesn't have children. And its not as clear-cut as medical infertility or personal choice.
I've been on a medication since I was 30 that puts me in a true Catch-22 situation.
It is hazardous to a baby if I take it during pregnancy
It is hazardous to me if I go off it to conceive & carry a child to term.
I explained to my husband as soon as things even started getting serious that I wouldn't be getting pregnant - and at the time I really didn't want to share my medical condition with adoption agencies across the country, either.
It's being a very honest person dealing with the questions "Why don't you have children", "Are you going to have kids", etc. for 18 yrs now that are nobody's business that has been so difficult. I try deflection, humor, one-word responses, but I just can't find it in myself to be rude.
My favorite is to sigh, and say, "If only it were that simple...."
But I'm 48 and people are still asking.
The best part is that we are the BEST Aunt & Uncle in our family's universe, Chuck coaches both a kids - and a High School's bowling team, and we have both have a real chance to make a difference in many children's lives even if we don't have our own.
It would have been a good deal to have become a schoolteacher in my early 20's tho...