Today is cd 13. I went in for an u/s and blood work this morning. I have 1 foll. @17, 4 @ 16, 4 @ 15, 12 @ 12-14, and some smaller ones. The doctor who was doing the u/s left the room to get another dr to look at my ovaries; they were both very suprised at the amount of eggs. They talked to me about selective reduction and multiples. They told me to wait to talk to another dr before I left. The third dr. is said to be one of the best RE's there is. This dr told me that I have the highest risk he's ever seen at quadruplets or higher. He said that it is his medical advice to not continue this cycle.

I mentioned to him that I only have one more try before DH is out of the country and that my chances of conceiving even one were lowered by scar tissue from C sect, endo, and hostile cm due to cone biopsy. He agreed with that; but still said the chances were just that chances, and he didn't recommend going through with this cycle.

I told him that I respect his opinion and that if I were having IUI I would agree with him; but I wanted to try this cycle with timed intercourse. So he gave me a prescription of HCG to take tomorrow night. And had me sign papers saying that this is against his advice.

Now I am wondering if maybe I should listen to him or not? Am I letting my desire for another child get ahead of my own health and safety? If I were to conceive 4 or more- I would have selective reduction; not because I want to, but because I have to make sure I am not putting myself at risk; because I have a four year old to raise. With selective reduction, there is an increased risk of miscarriage with the remaining fetus(es). Also with selective reduction, I would have to consider how it would effect me to give someone permission to kill some of my children.

Please give me some opinions, I am going crazy with the what ifs. Thank you for your help.

Mommawannabe- stop with the follie dance-they're definitely growing http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/wink.gif

Alisa - http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif I've stopped follie dance.

WOW. That is a tough call - that is so up to you though. If I were you, I would probably go for it, especially if DH is leaving the country in a few. We hear about women giving birth safely to happy and healthy babies that are not singletons ALL the time. But there is that chance and it would probably kill you if you had to make some selective decisions if you're put in that situation.

What does DH think about all of this? I think you need to sit down with him and talk to him about this.

Alisa

I have been in your shoes, we had 10 mature follicles our first cycle but were doing timed intercourse. My RE never advised me against doing the cycle because I have PCOS and he told me that women with PCO tend to have poor egg quality. We tried the timed intercourse and it did fail, one of the reasons being that the large amount of follicles swelled up my ovaries and therefore tilted my uterus making it almost impossible for the swimmers to get in. Our second cycle we did an IUI with around 8 mature follicles and I got pregnant with twins. I think you take a chance no matter what you do, DH and I knew the risks of possibly getting pregnant with multiples and we were mentally prepared to do what needed to be done to ensure a healthy pregnancy. I think only you and DH can make this decision as you are the ones who will have to make that choice should you get pregnant with multiples. I wish you the very best of luck, I personally would just go for it but I have a tendancy to do things out on a limb that may not always be the best decision for me.

Good Luck and let us know what you decide
Amanda
10 weeks with Twins

I am like momma. I would go for it to. How afriad of multiples are you? What will you do if you have 4? Ask yourself those questions before you decide.

Very hard decision there. I believe things happen for a reason and sometimes we just have to listen to our hearts. Here you have been presented with a wonderful amount of eggs (God, I wish I could have had even a third of them) and your DH is leaving soon. I would almost take it as a sign. My friend had invitro and ended up with triplets. They only wanted one. She went into NY to see a specialist and he laid all the facts on the line about reduction and its pros and cons. He made her feel very comfortable about her decision. Obviously you will make the final decision. At least you know that you WILL get preg. and it will be the end of this ttc rollercoaster. I never thought I would say this but I am jealous of your eggs!! LOL!! Just pray for the answer and know that whatever happens you will be ready. I wish you all the luck in the world. Congrats on those eggs!!!!!!!!!! Damn, I am envious of eggs.....what the heck........not your shoes, or your car but your damn eggs. (just trying to add a little humor in this difficult time)

Is there any chance of switching to IVF this cycle?

Oh - you poor thing -what a horrible situation to be in.Like every one has written in it is ultimately your decision and your DH's. But personally i would deffinately listen to your doctors advice - after all it is kinda a partnership and trust you have created between you all in the hopes of creating a life. How horrible it would be to actually get pregnant and then have to make the agonising decision of selective reduction or that the decision be out of your hands and that you loose all the babies.It is a tough one. I have 3 sets of friends who have been pregnany with twins - which to me seemed like kinda cute and I never thought it a big deal. However one set died ayt 26 weeks - they were born prematurely. The second set survived and were born at 37 weeks. The third set were born early at 29 weeks and after two weeeks one twin died. These were absoluely devatstingto all concerned as you can imagine. So I can only imagine that the chance of carrying quads etc to term and ensuring a succesful preganancy must be far lower than say one fetus or twins. It is sooooo unusual for a large number of fetuses to be carried successfully - I guess that is why when it does happen like the sextuplets born in the UK 18 years ago are famous because the are that a one off and unusual. I know what it feels like to be desperate to have a baby but think long and hard. A devastating loss could very well be worse than the actual longing for another baby. I wish that this situation had not arisen for you - my prayers are with you. Take care - remeber it is up to you.

Momma- How are you feeling? Do you still feel tomorrow's blood test will be negative? My DH is TOO supportive, he supports whatever I decide; so he's little help in the decision. Plus he's stuck on the ship til tomorrow and doesn't know what's going on yet.

Colleywobbles- Congratulations on the little ones! My RE is worried because I am 22 with excellent egg quality. But I still think my chances aren't too great because of the problems we've had.

Boundi- You counted right there are 21 above 12 and a total of 38 above 6.

Tmerone- I think the possibility of another BFN is worrying me even more this month. Don't be too jealous of the eggs- it is VERY painful to have this many. And if you saw the cute shoes I am wearing you may be jealous there too http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/wink.gif

Tessa- We have government insurance and they don't cover IUI or IVF, they don't even cover 1/2 the u/s. I have been over my finances a million times this evening; but with a house in escrow, a new van in the garage, and my son's tuition; I can't do it. It's frustrating because this would be a perfect IVF cycle.

Thank you all very much, I needed some opinions that were the same as mine. I am glad that I am not the only one that thinks I should go for it. I talked to my minister this evening and as I talked to him I realized that my chances are still not perfect for getting pregnant. So I am going to go for it and hope for the best. I prayed for each and every one of you this evening and I still have my fingers crossed for lots of BFP's this month. I'm going to go crazy waiting for June 5th to get here (the morning I can test).

Thank you all!

Alisa

PS If any of you want more follies, just get mommawannabe dancing for you; one follie dance from her and my follies grew 7 mm in three days and doubled in number! http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/wink.gif

Robertson- Thank you very much for your reply. At first my thoughts were just like yours; but the more I think about it the more I think I should at least try. I have tried for 4 years to conceive- so I know my chances aren't good with one-three eggs; so I am hoping my chances are better this cycle. Thanks for the prayer, I think prayer is my best bet right now.

Boundi- Yes I am totally terrified of multiples especially 3 + ... I am very small 5'4" and 98lbs (15 of that because of Bravelle)... I still have poor circulation and high blood pressure (since last pregnancy in 98)... My DH will be out of the country from July this summer til July 2004... So if I do get pregnant he will be gone most of the pregnancy and the first part of the child(ren)'s life... I live 500 miles from my nearest relative and my closest friend was just stationed in Vicenza, Italy. Okay now your questions have me rethinking all of this. Confusion is so aggravating.

Hi Alisa - I'm so proud of you for making the decision to move forward with this cycle. I knew you'd think with your heart, and also with your head seeing as how DH is going away for so long.

I'm doing okay, been crying off and on all day today. I pretty much drowned myself into house work today to keep my mind off of things, didn't work too well. I keep asking myself over and over again - what went wrong? Everything went beautifully for us, better than they'd ever gone and still nothing. I worry about my egg quality, I worry about a shell being over my egg and DH's little ones not being to penetrate, I worry that I have a toxic environment and then I worry about my endo killing off what is so precious in there.

But I'm only putting more stress on my body by worrying this way, so hopefully we'll be able to give it another go right away and then if we are still not successful, I'll feel okay in talking with my RE about what we do now. Whether it be another lap to zap my endo or whatever...IVF maybe?? I would embrace that chance, but our insurance covers zilch so we would need to get some money somewhere for that kind of tx.

We'll see. It ain't nuttin' but time and $$$ and lots of passion for wanting to be a Momma.

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Momma- I wouldn't think that hostile environment is the problem. They had wanted to skip timed intercourse with us because an IUI bypasses the cervix (where you have to worry about hostility the most). I still think your supposed to have a spring baby. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/wink.gif What type of progesterone are you taking? They upped mine from the suppositories to the shots this cycle. One of my nurses told me today that some new research was showing that a larger number of women than previously thought, are having infertility due to no implantation.

She wasn't supposed to tell me this yet, since they haven't published the research. But she thinks that is one of many parts of my problem. I'm not sure what my lining should be at this point, but they said 12 something?

Do you think that implantation could be your problem? I am personally starting to think that endo is causing lack of implantation. But who knows.

If you still need to get your mind off of things, you can come clean my house too... http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Good luck tomorrow, If they can't give you a BFP, hopefully they'll be able to make AF get here.

LOL http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Clean your house too! Funny. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/wink.gif

I think that my endo and not my PCOS is really wreaking havoc on my getting preggers and I'm almost tempted to ask for a lap before my 3rd IUI, but I wouldn't know how to ask about that. I'm so timid when it comes to asking for things from my RE. But its my body - right? BEfore my first lap, I had over 100 implants lazored off, washed, and then relazored off. I had it everywhere, including my peritoneum or whaterver that is. I read tonight that women who have endo in these locations have problems relating to infertility because the toxins interfere with so much, up to implantation.

Progesterone has been really good for me, it was at 32.5 or 32.7 or something this last cycle, so they say that that is just great.

That's another reason why I'm so cornfused.

Momma- Tell the drs what is on your mind! I have done a lot of infertility research and my drs really seem to respect my opinion. How long has it been since your last lap? With that much endo, I would definitely consider another lap first. I was lucky and they caught my endo before it could get too bad.

My progesterone was in the normal-good range; but my drs have everyone there on at least the suppositories. They feel that the more progesterone- the thicker the lining- and the thicker the better.

If everything went "right" last cycle, I would ask your drs what they feel went wrong. When they try to tell you percentages, such as a healthy woman has only a 22.5% chance of conceiving. Ask them what you can do to improve your chances. Let them know that you are open to the idea of another lap, different drugs, etc. As a general rule, I make the dr stay in my room and talk about what is going on for at least 5 mins after u/s. One visit I was talking to the dr and realized he hadn't even looked at my file, and didn't know any of my medical problems. (The drawback of a large fertility institute).

Make sure they are personalizing your treatment and not just doing what worked for everyone else. Remember you are paying for the treatments and it will cost you the same if the drs talk with you for 5 mins as it would for 10 mins. I had thought they would get aggravated by me bugging them; but they seem to realize how serious I am about my treatments.

Something tells me you worry too much about their time and being extra "nice". Stand up for yourself, a little and it can do wonders.

I thought I was going to be all alone tonight; but my husband just snuck home to BD. So I will be on here tomorrow to check on your appt. Good luck!

Hi Navywife - thanks for your response! yep it is a tough call for you. I really feel for ya if you husband will have to be away for so long during your possible pregnancy (if you get pregs this time). My husband thankfully is home at the weekends and away during Mon - Fri bit.

It has been really tough even just that amount of time as like you I have BP problems and also have had placenta problems, bleeding etc. When I am pregs I feel much more vunerable and I really want him at home for moral support and a hug, it has created a degree of tention between us even though he can't help being away alot.

Do you have some-one who can come with you for possible ultra sounds etc as it might be tough on your own.

Good Luck this month - baby dust being sent your way - I pray you only end up with one or two bubas for all your sakes!!

Oh - it took me 4 years too to have my baby - she is 6 now! so it does happen. My baby is due in 8 weeks - after not an easy preganancy. GOOD LUCK MORE PRAYERS FOR YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

When I got pregnant in december, I had 11 follicles all huge/perfect and they were really worried about multiples......but they let me go through with the IUI. My thinking at the time was I couldn't look a gift horse in the mouth, I couldn't pass up the chance to try.

On the subject of endo.. toxic environment yes but how much of that effects implantation? I work in medicine, my specialty is OB/GYN and I search and search for research about implantation problems with endo. (cuz I have endo) I wish there was more info on how it deters embryo implantation...does it get inflammatory in the uterus? Cause you are supposed to have endometrium in the uterus - it is part of the lining! Does it effect the embryo on the way to implant? It pisses me off and that's all that I can say FOR SURE. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif

I got pg but it ended with chem. pg. Was that due to endo? Guess so, that is why I am doing IVF - to bypass all that inflammation.

I thought for sure with ALL those eggs I would have multiples, be thinking about reduction etc...but i think when your odds are down with fertility problems, having all those eggs just puts your chances in a categroy with "normal" ttc people....GO FOR IT!

Oh yeah I forgot to say one other thing! I had a Barcardi silver on a very empty stomach and I am a little foggy http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif

I DID get pg with my 4 year old daughter when I had 4 follicles on clomid and timed intercourse. So you would think with 3 times that WOW I could have 8 babies!

Look at it like this, let's say you have 12 follies but only 4 are really viable for fertilization and will grow etc...or let's say you have 4 follies but ALL are great...the numbers can be deceiving so don't let them keep you from doing what your heart really wants - Kelly

LOL Kelly - I split a bottle of Pinot Noir with a friend and I'm feeling a bit fuzzy myself. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif can't wait for DH to come home tomorrow- I'm feeling a little friskay. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by mommawannabee (edited 05-25-2003).]

GO MOMMA! GO MOMMA! http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/bouncing.gif

Navy Wife !
Wow - really tough decision ! you know your own body and situation better than anybody . on my first RE consult before Dr wrote the RX for drugs he told me that a reduction would be necessary if I was carrying more than 2 . I am 5 feet tall . I have prepared myself for the fact that we are really playing with mother nature here and there might be things that I might be uncomfortable with under a conception that might be necessary when so much science is involved. I am probably older than you and childless . If I was in your situation I think I would probably go for it . ONLY YOU truly understand your personal situation . best of luck making a difficult decision . We will all be here for you either way

[This message has been edited by old flo 1 (edited 05-26-2003).]

Okay navywife. Where ya been? I think we are all curious as to what your decision was. Mabey you decided to go for it and that is why we haven't heard from you.

Your to busy gettin' busy.

For some reason my account was deactivated and I have been unable to post from my pc.

Here's what I tried to post last night:
Hello everyone! Thank you all for your support. I'm sorry I went MIA on you. I've been busy doing alot of thinking and (as Boundi said): busy gettin' busy. I'm definitely trying, I have a strong belief that if it happens it happens for a reason. But we have also decided that if this cycle doesn't work, we will wait until July 2004 and try an IUI or three. Like Momma, I need to get my body back in order. I need to have a biopsy to make sure cancer hasn't returned, lap for the endo, etc. So I really need lots of luck, prayers, and everything else this cycle.

Robertson- Congratulations on your pregnancy! Hopefully the next 8 weeks will be happy, healthy and fast ones.

No one is really close enough to make it to U/S and things with me. It's an eight hour drive for our closest relative/friend to get here. But it is something I am used to- it is one of the "benefits" of having DH on sea duty. My first pregnancy DH missed from 8 wks til the day before DS was born.

Kateisboo- Endo is very frustrating- I wish the United States would put more money into its research and the research of all reproductive problems. I do research on endo on Israeli websites - they are far past us in the research of infertility. The basic theory that I have found to make since is endo feeds on estrogen, makes estrogen high, estrogen effects progesterone (makes it of poor quality and sometimes quantity), poor progesterone = poor lining = no implantation. This is a very brief summary; but a couple of searches should get you to the theory and others.

Old Flo- The RE told me that a reduction would be necessary when I started treatments too. But until now I haven't had one large egg, not alone a dozen. I know that if it comes to that I will have to have the reduction, but I'm worried about the emotional repercusions that will follow. I'm terrified that if I have a reduction; I will look at the children that are born and always miss the ones that weren't.

Well ladies I'm going to go wake up Dh to BD; poor things exhausted. I just keep reminding him that all these shots weren't for him to sleep. Thank you all again for your support.

Those of you that were "fuzzy" yesterday, drink one for me I like a shot of So Co.

Note from today:

I will be back on when we get my account fixed. Good luck Jordansmom and anyone else testing soon. Momma- I am soooo sorry to see they want you to wait so long for the lap. I'm sure you'll figure something out.

Good luck everyone, hopefully you'll all have BFP's by the time I get back.

Missed you! You sound good - I'm glad to hear it.

That's okay about the lap - maybe this is a sign that we need to take a break and relax. It will be good when I finally do get my lap - AF is here and I'm gushing like crazy..going through a super tampon every hour. That stinks. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/frown.gif

Thanks Momma, I missed you guys too. I convinced my son into letting me bring his pc out of his room and into the computer room until I get mine fixed.

I think I sound better than I actually am. I can't believe this is my last 2ww for over a year (hopefully partly because of a BFP). I hate trying to find the balance between not getting my hopes up and thinking positive. I have 9 days left before I will test. I ovulated and we covered the time period well with the BD'ing. (Poor DH asked me last night- "Do we have to do it again tomorrow?") How many times does a man say that?

So I guess we've done everything we can and have to wait and see. Thank you for your support, it really helps.

The last time I went through tampons like that, it was because of cysts. But you are going to have good luck now, no more bad luck.

I appreciate that! http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif

I'm sorry you're still sad. Wouldn't that just be incredible if you got preggers from this cycle?! There is a very HIGH possibility! So don't be upset. And if nothing happens, don't worry about it - perhaps someone above is telling you in His way that you need your DH to be here to support and help you out with a new baby.

HUGS to YOU
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Thank you Momma. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/heart.gif