luvtocamp
01-08-2009, 06:05 PM
Just got home, he was very nice , did a thurough exam and found the tight muscles on the right jaw and neck. He thought the dentures were all wrong, too big and wide, and should not be biting on the back. He thought the teeth were too big in my previous dentures too.
He said tens may be contraindicated with MS, as I told him it made me worst.
He was amazed at my gums and the bone in my mouth, he said almost abnormal and hes going to investigate that, as he has never seen such big gums even in people with teeth, and since I've been wearing dentures for 10 years now, he finds it strange.
He wants me to leave the dentures out as much as possible and take the valium at night and no dentures at night and call him on Mon to let him know if my muscles are better.
he'd like me to see a chiro, he said my body is all wound up. I told him I see an osteopath and he said apparently that hasn't been working.
Anyway I found him extremely nice and knowledgable. he spent at least an hour with me at no charge, so that was good.
he isn't sure he can help me till he figures out what is wrong and going on, he said something is not right.
he may reline my old dentures to at least get me comfortable and but until my muscles relax he won't know where my bite is and making a bite now would lock me up.
OH very important, the girl said they never ever use a splint with a denture patient- which was good news to me!!
Office was clean, very easy drive, and a lab , but for the finish product they send it out, after they set everything.
So thats my report. When I walked in the office, I said to myself, oh I hate to go through another dental interview and almost left, but it was alot better than I though, and he was gentle.
He said tens may be contraindicated with MS, as I told him it made me worst.
He was amazed at my gums and the bone in my mouth, he said almost abnormal and hes going to investigate that, as he has never seen such big gums even in people with teeth, and since I've been wearing dentures for 10 years now, he finds it strange.
He wants me to leave the dentures out as much as possible and take the valium at night and no dentures at night and call him on Mon to let him know if my muscles are better.
he'd like me to see a chiro, he said my body is all wound up. I told him I see an osteopath and he said apparently that hasn't been working.
Anyway I found him extremely nice and knowledgable. he spent at least an hour with me at no charge, so that was good.
he isn't sure he can help me till he figures out what is wrong and going on, he said something is not right.
he may reline my old dentures to at least get me comfortable and but until my muscles relax he won't know where my bite is and making a bite now would lock me up.
OH very important, the girl said they never ever use a splint with a denture patient- which was good news to me!!
Office was clean, very easy drive, and a lab , but for the finish product they send it out, after they set everything.
So thats my report. When I walked in the office, I said to myself, oh I hate to go through another dental interview and almost left, but it was alot better than I though, and he was gentle.
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Thelma-Louise
01-08-2009, 08:58 PM
Ok - so far so good - he doesn't sound like he tried to give you the hard and fast sell like "only I can fix this" routine. I like the idea of not wearing your dentures b/c wearing something that is perpetuating if not contributing to your problem is not the answer - and going "au natural" although yes, not pleasant, has its benefits - I think just doing that helped me a great deal as it allowed my jaw to go where it wanted - and actually allowed me to use it in chewing - which encourages the muscles to start moving like they used to.
Although I found relief in not having anyhting in my mouth - to be honest the first few weeks if not months were hard b/c I started to get even more spasms as my body "unwound" - either on its own accord or with assistance from the chiro. So I am not sure you will see that much improvement in only a few days - but if you have throbbing pain from the dentures themselves, certainly that will ease up.
See - I have never been to an osteopath so I am not familiar with their training or treatment - so I can't really say whether an ostoe is better than a chiro - or vice versa - plus a lot can depend on the practioner as well - I know what its like though to like and trust the person performing the treatment - as I really liked my first chiro - more than liked, if you get my drift LOL - but I wasn't getting much better and knew I needed to try other things if I ever wanted to pursue that part of my life again, so I moved on - its shouldn't be about staying with a therapist b/c they are gentle or nice, etc - it should be about whether they are correcting the problem or not.
Well it sounds like a good start - to maybe a beautiful and productive relationship, I hope. The fact that he did not charge you for the hour says quite a lot too. And the fact that he was gentle with you - I have had a few exam me like they were rummaging through a garbage can.
I kept thinking about you today - her appt is in 15 mins, Ok she must be in the chair by now, ok its 20 mins past - he must be examing her by now, etc. - I wish I could have been a fly on the wall in that office.
I am so glad it went better than you expected - let me know how you are feeling w/o the dentures or if you notice any change in your symptoms.
Although I found relief in not having anyhting in my mouth - to be honest the first few weeks if not months were hard b/c I started to get even more spasms as my body "unwound" - either on its own accord or with assistance from the chiro. So I am not sure you will see that much improvement in only a few days - but if you have throbbing pain from the dentures themselves, certainly that will ease up.
See - I have never been to an osteopath so I am not familiar with their training or treatment - so I can't really say whether an ostoe is better than a chiro - or vice versa - plus a lot can depend on the practioner as well - I know what its like though to like and trust the person performing the treatment - as I really liked my first chiro - more than liked, if you get my drift LOL - but I wasn't getting much better and knew I needed to try other things if I ever wanted to pursue that part of my life again, so I moved on - its shouldn't be about staying with a therapist b/c they are gentle or nice, etc - it should be about whether they are correcting the problem or not.
Well it sounds like a good start - to maybe a beautiful and productive relationship, I hope. The fact that he did not charge you for the hour says quite a lot too. And the fact that he was gentle with you - I have had a few exam me like they were rummaging through a garbage can.
I kept thinking about you today - her appt is in 15 mins, Ok she must be in the chair by now, ok its 20 mins past - he must be examing her by now, etc. - I wish I could have been a fly on the wall in that office.
I am so glad it went better than you expected - let me know how you are feeling w/o the dentures or if you notice any change in your symptoms.
StillHope
01-09-2009, 02:21 AM
LTC, I am glad that the visit went so well. The guy seems to be really willing to adjust for the patient and not do their "processing line" routine. I like how TL said about rummaging the garbage can. I had one exam in an office advertising their "gentle touch"; the dentist was a lady and I thought she would just tear my mouth and crash all the teeth...
TL is very wise about suggesting not to trust just the niceness. I fell for this few times with good "bruises". It is also very good that the new dentist wants to make you comfy first of all giving your jaw total freedom (from the bite) and rest. When will you see the dentist again? Will you be seeing his chiro or continue with your osteo? It would be great if this nearby dentist will take a good care of you!
You say that your body is shifted to one side now. I had this for about 16 years unknowingly but when I learned how to relax my body it straightened out in 2-3 days (if not faster). Of course, it does not stay there but I know the feeling. Just really try to relax all your muscles during your resting phase.
Have you ever slept w/o the dentures? Doesn't your mouth close all the way then? I have troubles sleeping w/o at least some piece in my mouth.
TL, thanks for the guard. I made it fit and it's better than I thought. The problem is that I can't close the lips so I am drooling and feel the cheeks stretched sideways too much. I tried to cut on the sides, but am afraid to cut too much. How thick should it be on the side? What was your experience? How should it feel? Are you still wearing it at night, if not - what?
LTC, you asked about the sleep apnea. I don't have the tongue problem at night but I think my airways are indeed small. This is the reason my jaw doesn't stay in the CR position (to where the dentists like to "push it") but has to move slightly forward to allow me to breathe and even to eat, or else all the food goes to the back before I chew it and I choke easily.
TL, me too I had the bones shifting sometimes besides the tingling and numbness in the hands and feet. Now I check my spine by hanging on the bar, as I mentioned to you. It's easy to feel then what parts are out of alignment, but it's not easy to change them!
I agree that a general dentist will frick out from seeing muscle spasms. I watched their jaw dropping too. BUT I also watched the same reaction of a NM dentist when he made some kind of non-removable horseshoes on top of my teeth and my face suddenly started moving and one side ended up being much further to the back and much narrower than the other. He started saying smth as it was happening and then stopped in the middle of the phrase and his jaw dropped instead. From watching him I realized that I better ask him to remove what he made as I didn't want to have any emergencies at night. He did it w/o a word and even didn't charge me the rest of the fee! It looked like he never saw anything like that.
TL, you said that you went to the TMJ clinic in NYC school. Was it in NYU? Was it helpful at all? I tried going there before the tmj started just to fix my occlusion. It looked like after several months of waiting they would have sent me to their prosthodontist but then the students will do the work anyway. So I thought I'd better just go to a specialist on my own.
You ask what I mean by the "plane of occlusion" not being a plane. If you check the pics of it, you will see that it is a concave down surface (for the lower teeth), i.e. like an bowl, or a "trampoline". It can be steeper or flatter. Basically it repeats the shape of the jaw if looking at the face from profile. This also means that the lower back teeth are somewhat higher than the premolars and the fronts are again higher.
On the upper teeth it's reverse: the very backs are shorter than in the middle. The upper fronts repeat the shape of your lips when you smile a little bit.
I keep on thinking how you could unwind your body and relax the muscle spasms. So far I only learned a certain way which often works for me but requires a lot of time. At least I can make a BR at that state but w/o the proper teeth it all goes away quickly.
TL is very wise about suggesting not to trust just the niceness. I fell for this few times with good "bruises". It is also very good that the new dentist wants to make you comfy first of all giving your jaw total freedom (from the bite) and rest. When will you see the dentist again? Will you be seeing his chiro or continue with your osteo? It would be great if this nearby dentist will take a good care of you!
You say that your body is shifted to one side now. I had this for about 16 years unknowingly but when I learned how to relax my body it straightened out in 2-3 days (if not faster). Of course, it does not stay there but I know the feeling. Just really try to relax all your muscles during your resting phase.
Have you ever slept w/o the dentures? Doesn't your mouth close all the way then? I have troubles sleeping w/o at least some piece in my mouth.
TL, thanks for the guard. I made it fit and it's better than I thought. The problem is that I can't close the lips so I am drooling and feel the cheeks stretched sideways too much. I tried to cut on the sides, but am afraid to cut too much. How thick should it be on the side? What was your experience? How should it feel? Are you still wearing it at night, if not - what?
LTC, you asked about the sleep apnea. I don't have the tongue problem at night but I think my airways are indeed small. This is the reason my jaw doesn't stay in the CR position (to where the dentists like to "push it") but has to move slightly forward to allow me to breathe and even to eat, or else all the food goes to the back before I chew it and I choke easily.
TL, me too I had the bones shifting sometimes besides the tingling and numbness in the hands and feet. Now I check my spine by hanging on the bar, as I mentioned to you. It's easy to feel then what parts are out of alignment, but it's not easy to change them!
I agree that a general dentist will frick out from seeing muscle spasms. I watched their jaw dropping too. BUT I also watched the same reaction of a NM dentist when he made some kind of non-removable horseshoes on top of my teeth and my face suddenly started moving and one side ended up being much further to the back and much narrower than the other. He started saying smth as it was happening and then stopped in the middle of the phrase and his jaw dropped instead. From watching him I realized that I better ask him to remove what he made as I didn't want to have any emergencies at night. He did it w/o a word and even didn't charge me the rest of the fee! It looked like he never saw anything like that.
TL, you said that you went to the TMJ clinic in NYC school. Was it in NYU? Was it helpful at all? I tried going there before the tmj started just to fix my occlusion. It looked like after several months of waiting they would have sent me to their prosthodontist but then the students will do the work anyway. So I thought I'd better just go to a specialist on my own.
You ask what I mean by the "plane of occlusion" not being a plane. If you check the pics of it, you will see that it is a concave down surface (for the lower teeth), i.e. like an bowl, or a "trampoline". It can be steeper or flatter. Basically it repeats the shape of the jaw if looking at the face from profile. This also means that the lower back teeth are somewhat higher than the premolars and the fronts are again higher.
On the upper teeth it's reverse: the very backs are shorter than in the middle. The upper fronts repeat the shape of your lips when you smile a little bit.
I keep on thinking how you could unwind your body and relax the muscle spasms. So far I only learned a certain way which often works for me but requires a lot of time. At least I can make a BR at that state but w/o the proper teeth it all goes away quickly.
luvtocamp
01-09-2009, 09:05 AM
Stillhope you said "it is a concave down surface (for the lower teeth), i.e. like an bowl, or a "trampoline". that is pretty much what my first partial looked like, but not partial since, since the first pair they have been straight. And yes my top teeth were made the way you described, those were my first dentures and even sinse then they have mostly been flat plane ones. Gee I wonder if thats my problem.
I turned into a nut case in his office if you no what I mean, blurting things out, and not being composed as I wanted to be. You know how nervous you get when you in there and they are looking at you and that.
Osteo's, move your body parts to straighten the spine, I'm afraid of chiros as I had that one that when I left my hips were torque and had coccyx pain and she was just awful.
I don't know what to do, he said if he isn't able to help me he'll let me know, and he isn't sure of what my problem is except my tight muscles on the right side. He did say my head was tilted but just slightly.
I was wondering if maybe botox in the right scm would help.
I have been sleeping without the lower partial, so I slept without both last night, no difference, yes my mouth closed all the way I think.
Yes TL- when I pulled out my few sets of dentures, the girl said how do you keep them straight? Thanks for thinking of me yesterday. I do the same when you go to your dentist and then can't wait to hear what happened.
There was not talk about money yesterday, not even what his dentures cost, or even talk like implants or that like some say maybe a implant lower denture would be better.
I may make a consult with the chiro today, but just to talk to him.
Its so hard to know what to do, but now I need to find a ride next week to my dentist and my husband is so busy I hate to ask, it would be nice to have one in town, that is a big deal to me, and really my dentist hasn't helped really at all, except I'm worst once again.
TL- I read that other post about fibro and you mentioned RA- my test just came back neg, maybe have your doc next time run a test on you. I got a letter yesterday I need to go and get more blood work, I have leukocytosis and macrocytosis- I'm sure its the stress of this all. My doctor always runs so much blood work and I try to tell him its muscles and body sturcture causing my problems, at least hes errors on the side of caution.
I called the chiro office. They have low level laser, does your chiro have that TL. Also does your chiro crack your neck?? I really really hate the thought of someone cracking my neck.
I turned into a nut case in his office if you no what I mean, blurting things out, and not being composed as I wanted to be. You know how nervous you get when you in there and they are looking at you and that.
Osteo's, move your body parts to straighten the spine, I'm afraid of chiros as I had that one that when I left my hips were torque and had coccyx pain and she was just awful.
I don't know what to do, he said if he isn't able to help me he'll let me know, and he isn't sure of what my problem is except my tight muscles on the right side. He did say my head was tilted but just slightly.
I was wondering if maybe botox in the right scm would help.
I have been sleeping without the lower partial, so I slept without both last night, no difference, yes my mouth closed all the way I think.
Yes TL- when I pulled out my few sets of dentures, the girl said how do you keep them straight? Thanks for thinking of me yesterday. I do the same when you go to your dentist and then can't wait to hear what happened.
There was not talk about money yesterday, not even what his dentures cost, or even talk like implants or that like some say maybe a implant lower denture would be better.
I may make a consult with the chiro today, but just to talk to him.
Its so hard to know what to do, but now I need to find a ride next week to my dentist and my husband is so busy I hate to ask, it would be nice to have one in town, that is a big deal to me, and really my dentist hasn't helped really at all, except I'm worst once again.
TL- I read that other post about fibro and you mentioned RA- my test just came back neg, maybe have your doc next time run a test on you. I got a letter yesterday I need to go and get more blood work, I have leukocytosis and macrocytosis- I'm sure its the stress of this all. My doctor always runs so much blood work and I try to tell him its muscles and body sturcture causing my problems, at least hes errors on the side of caution.
I called the chiro office. They have low level laser, does your chiro have that TL. Also does your chiro crack your neck?? I really really hate the thought of someone cracking my neck.
Thelma-Louise
01-09-2009, 01:09 PM
Hi ladies - oh I hate mornings LOL
Stillhope - I tried the OTC mouthguard when I still had my teeth and the pain was still primarily located on the anterior bridges and only slight adjustments had been done to back teeth - but I found I needed more bulk toward the cheek on one side only, my right. The bulk on the one side made my muscles on that side stretch a bit more but I found this gave me the control I needed to maintain a specific lower jaw position. My current tmj dentist calls this a "reference" and says the bulk or width of teeth give our muscles the point of contact and resistance they need to work proeprly, but too much and you can pull the jaw one way or another - too little and you create hyper mobility. So you may have to go through some trial and error to determine what feels best on each side. I think I went through 3 guards in 4 months trying to get it just right but once my teeth were prepped for the crowns - I took such a drastic turn for the worse I never tried them again.
I went to NYU's Dental school as one dr I consulted with was the chairperson there and his private practice fee to fix my teeth was $60K - utterly rediculous - but he said if I went to the school he would monitor my "case". Well the tmj clinic had a 3 mos waiting period even though I came with a referral from the chair of the dept but they were able to get me into to their pain mgmt clinic that day - but I noticed each time I went I had someone new and spent 20-30 mins revieiwing my history again - and when it hurts to talk - well I just couldn't do it - after 4 mos I just went back to my PCP and told him - here prescribe these drugs and I didn't make the appt with the tmj clinic
Interesting about the plane - on my lower left side my last back tooth feels lower than the first lower premolar - so the slope on that side feels like it goes from higher (premolar) to lower (last molar) - and on the right side I am reversed - my premolar feels lower and the last molar on that side is higher - so I go from low in the front to higher in the back - this is what gives me the "bike pedals in the mouth" sensation. The corerct slope you describe though is what I used to feel - that the upper palate pointed downward a bit. But my 2nd tmj dr made my lower last molars like ski lifts - and that sent me into a tizzy for months - does each tooth then have a slope or plane to them as well?
I have lost a lot of my upper body strength - I guess b/c my back teeth don't meet or maybe an issue with my neck - so I am not sure I could hold onto a bar and hang (I have one in my boiler room) - I can't even hold my blow dryer up that high.
LTC - maybe this new dentist can refer you to a chiro that he knows or has worked with - that is how I I got 2 of the chiros I went to - at least then you know the chiro is "OK". No - i have never had a chiro "crack" me - its one of the reasons I wouldn't go in the begining - but by BIL literally dragged me to the first guy and he used an activator. The 2nd guy was the NUCCA - he just pushed the left side of jaw with the side of his hand. And now my current chiro - he uses his thumbs to push the bone - and if I feel it is too forceful he uses the palm of his hands - more like someone kneeding your muscle to get it to relax. Plus this guy makes me do certain movements with my arms - like raise it and put my hand behind my back or neck while he pushes on the sternum or on the top of my head, etc. Sometimes though I wonder if a good crack isn't what I really need - just get it over with, you know? I have never heard of a low level laser in chiro treatment - I wonder what that does. Find out more about his actual treatment - my NUCCA chiro spent an hour with me explaining what he would do before I would let him touch me - and after the adjustment I said to myself "that's it? that's what all the fuss was about?" - LOL
I had the RA test done a few times in the beginning - I had a high inflamation rate so my PCP put me on celebrex and some other stuff - but it didn't help - my PCP doesn't believe tmj can cause all my symptoms - thinks tmj is more like stiffness and moderate pain - but not cause spasms - so he still thinks its a neuro or brain disease or condition. But if you remember at one point I did want to go see a rheumy thinking even if wasn't RA maybe he would give me something to help with the inflamation and body pain. But my dad used prendisone to treat his RA (he tried a host of drugs in the beginning too) and he still developed joint deformity and was always achey and in pain - and most of the other new drugs out to treat it come with a lengthy list of potential risks.
I give you credit for going through with the appt LTC - I am so glad you did it - and I know what it took to not jump out of the chair and leave - I get like that too. Especially if I start seeing strange expressions on the dr's face and start thinking - oh another guy who thinks I am a freak.
Stillhope - I tried the OTC mouthguard when I still had my teeth and the pain was still primarily located on the anterior bridges and only slight adjustments had been done to back teeth - but I found I needed more bulk toward the cheek on one side only, my right. The bulk on the one side made my muscles on that side stretch a bit more but I found this gave me the control I needed to maintain a specific lower jaw position. My current tmj dentist calls this a "reference" and says the bulk or width of teeth give our muscles the point of contact and resistance they need to work proeprly, but too much and you can pull the jaw one way or another - too little and you create hyper mobility. So you may have to go through some trial and error to determine what feels best on each side. I think I went through 3 guards in 4 months trying to get it just right but once my teeth were prepped for the crowns - I took such a drastic turn for the worse I never tried them again.
I went to NYU's Dental school as one dr I consulted with was the chairperson there and his private practice fee to fix my teeth was $60K - utterly rediculous - but he said if I went to the school he would monitor my "case". Well the tmj clinic had a 3 mos waiting period even though I came with a referral from the chair of the dept but they were able to get me into to their pain mgmt clinic that day - but I noticed each time I went I had someone new and spent 20-30 mins revieiwing my history again - and when it hurts to talk - well I just couldn't do it - after 4 mos I just went back to my PCP and told him - here prescribe these drugs and I didn't make the appt with the tmj clinic
Interesting about the plane - on my lower left side my last back tooth feels lower than the first lower premolar - so the slope on that side feels like it goes from higher (premolar) to lower (last molar) - and on the right side I am reversed - my premolar feels lower and the last molar on that side is higher - so I go from low in the front to higher in the back - this is what gives me the "bike pedals in the mouth" sensation. The corerct slope you describe though is what I used to feel - that the upper palate pointed downward a bit. But my 2nd tmj dr made my lower last molars like ski lifts - and that sent me into a tizzy for months - does each tooth then have a slope or plane to them as well?
I have lost a lot of my upper body strength - I guess b/c my back teeth don't meet or maybe an issue with my neck - so I am not sure I could hold onto a bar and hang (I have one in my boiler room) - I can't even hold my blow dryer up that high.
LTC - maybe this new dentist can refer you to a chiro that he knows or has worked with - that is how I I got 2 of the chiros I went to - at least then you know the chiro is "OK". No - i have never had a chiro "crack" me - its one of the reasons I wouldn't go in the begining - but by BIL literally dragged me to the first guy and he used an activator. The 2nd guy was the NUCCA - he just pushed the left side of jaw with the side of his hand. And now my current chiro - he uses his thumbs to push the bone - and if I feel it is too forceful he uses the palm of his hands - more like someone kneeding your muscle to get it to relax. Plus this guy makes me do certain movements with my arms - like raise it and put my hand behind my back or neck while he pushes on the sternum or on the top of my head, etc. Sometimes though I wonder if a good crack isn't what I really need - just get it over with, you know? I have never heard of a low level laser in chiro treatment - I wonder what that does. Find out more about his actual treatment - my NUCCA chiro spent an hour with me explaining what he would do before I would let him touch me - and after the adjustment I said to myself "that's it? that's what all the fuss was about?" - LOL
I had the RA test done a few times in the beginning - I had a high inflamation rate so my PCP put me on celebrex and some other stuff - but it didn't help - my PCP doesn't believe tmj can cause all my symptoms - thinks tmj is more like stiffness and moderate pain - but not cause spasms - so he still thinks its a neuro or brain disease or condition. But if you remember at one point I did want to go see a rheumy thinking even if wasn't RA maybe he would give me something to help with the inflamation and body pain. But my dad used prendisone to treat his RA (he tried a host of drugs in the beginning too) and he still developed joint deformity and was always achey and in pain - and most of the other new drugs out to treat it come with a lengthy list of potential risks.
I give you credit for going through with the appt LTC - I am so glad you did it - and I know what it took to not jump out of the chair and leave - I get like that too. Especially if I start seeing strange expressions on the dr's face and start thinking - oh another guy who thinks I am a freak.
luvtocamp
01-09-2009, 01:34 PM
Morning, you hate mornings and they are my best times.
Snowing and the roads are bad so I was going to go pick up a few things but guess it can wait. Ever since my accident last Feb. its just not worth it for me to go out on snowy roads.
strange expressions on the dr's face and start thinking - oh another guy who thinks I am a freak. -------Well thats exactely how I feel. Oh Lord, what are they going to find wrong now or when they don't say anything you wonder what in the world they are thinking. He did question why they did the aveloplasty and I also think they cut too much off too, but my dentist everytime I've brought it up (around a zillion times) says no-nothing wrong with it.
This is the chiro he recommended and uses. I think your chiro is the kind I'd like that uses his hands and pushes on the vertebrae, like the osteo does, and uses your different body parts to manuver you.I guess that LL laser if for tissue healing. I don't want anyone cracking my neck anymore. In the past when I knew they were going to do it, I just tighten right up, as my osteo has done it a few times. I don't like them doing any movement on me that they don't tell me about first.
the slope, it was more in the center of my mouth (the concave part) like at the premolar and first molar area, the dip, and my top teeth were like that- especially on the one side that had the big gum that they did the aveloplasty on.
TL- sounds like your slopes are different on each side- and that for sure is not right. I don't know if each tooth has a slope, but I think like in dentures its how they set the teeth.
Now were your natural teeth taller on top and your bottom teeth smaller? Mine were that way, and it seems the two tmj dentist I've seen said the bottom teeth hould be bigger, why I don't know, and I think it should be the way you were born with.
I saw this show on tv and a old man got struck by lightening which made him start to turn younger, and his old rotton teeth started to fall right out and brand new white ones came in, well when I went to bed without my dentures, I said Oh wow wouldln't that be great if I woke up with beautiful teeth with the perfect bite.---------needless to say that didn't happen- only in the movies!
Snowing and the roads are bad so I was going to go pick up a few things but guess it can wait. Ever since my accident last Feb. its just not worth it for me to go out on snowy roads.
strange expressions on the dr's face and start thinking - oh another guy who thinks I am a freak. -------Well thats exactely how I feel. Oh Lord, what are they going to find wrong now or when they don't say anything you wonder what in the world they are thinking. He did question why they did the aveloplasty and I also think they cut too much off too, but my dentist everytime I've brought it up (around a zillion times) says no-nothing wrong with it.
This is the chiro he recommended and uses. I think your chiro is the kind I'd like that uses his hands and pushes on the vertebrae, like the osteo does, and uses your different body parts to manuver you.I guess that LL laser if for tissue healing. I don't want anyone cracking my neck anymore. In the past when I knew they were going to do it, I just tighten right up, as my osteo has done it a few times. I don't like them doing any movement on me that they don't tell me about first.
the slope, it was more in the center of my mouth (the concave part) like at the premolar and first molar area, the dip, and my top teeth were like that- especially on the one side that had the big gum that they did the aveloplasty on.
TL- sounds like your slopes are different on each side- and that for sure is not right. I don't know if each tooth has a slope, but I think like in dentures its how they set the teeth.
Now were your natural teeth taller on top and your bottom teeth smaller? Mine were that way, and it seems the two tmj dentist I've seen said the bottom teeth hould be bigger, why I don't know, and I think it should be the way you were born with.
I saw this show on tv and a old man got struck by lightening which made him start to turn younger, and his old rotton teeth started to fall right out and brand new white ones came in, well when I went to bed without my dentures, I said Oh wow wouldln't that be great if I woke up with beautiful teeth with the perfect bite.---------needless to say that didn't happen- only in the movies!
StillHope
01-09-2009, 05:40 PM
Waking up with beautiful teeth... A friend told me that in Japan they are trying to make the teeth tissue grow; he said in a few years or decades you might as well be the first to grow the teeth on. :D.
My wish is very modest: to have the teeth before I die!;)
TL, like you I can't find my "lists" or notes. Spent an hour looking for the phone # of the new dentists (from KOIS center), got an additional headache from the search. Eventually found that I rewrote the # in a notebook in which I "suppose" to write all short info. Again, I start a new notebook all the time forgetting that I already have one or if I recall about it, I still have no idea where it might be...
I know the feeling of telling a dentist smth and watching him thinking is she crazy or not. Few of them told me straightforward that they already "checked on this" and that I am not crazy. Thanks to them! At least I'll know for myself. :D However, one of those refused to help me not to spoil his records, the other one made the last disaster in September.
I also had few "nice ones" who were very understanding and assured me that "they have patients like me all the time and I came to the right place!" Those were the ones who robbed me thousands of $ for nothing in the most obnoxious way!!
So what's left to do, whom to choose?
TL, do you also have the pain in your tmj joints themselves, not around them or in the muscles? You had a CtScan, right? What did they tell you besides the wear of the disks? Did you see your jaw path on the screen?
Maybe your jaw path goes slightly "across" the arches of your teeth (like mine does) which adds to your "bike pedals" feeling.
My jaw is hurting now since September as if it is twisted; like the bone to bone contacts. I wonder if this still can be muscular? I think I'll ask my local dentist for an mri. The problem is that I am very uncomfy to lie down straight w/o lots of pillows, need to hold my jaw. Maybe my ligament really tore or something after these dental "push-ups" of the jaw?!
Yes, the upper body strength is very related to the VDO. One NM did a "test" on me: he asked me to bite on my temps and easily could push my arms down; then he gave me cotton rolls to bite on and I could resist his push! I checked it at home too on other things and it is the case.
Want to put my two cents about chiros. This is just my personal view, surely, every specialist is different and what they do is not the same.
I was seeing a chiro many times when I had a pinched nerve in my neck (shortly after the dental work which I had no idea that had anything to do with this). He'd just crack my neck by a knock-out in the jaw. When at some point I felt that my belly-button moved off center of my belly to the side right after that and I said "good bye" to him. Now I wonder whether he added to my tmj problem since they always ask whether you had a blow in your head, jaw or neck.
A friend who is a PT doesn't like chiro's cracking as he says they do more harm than good; he even mentioned that they often do this "to impress the patient" since muscles can be made relaxed and the bones will align by actually totally unnoticeable work-- then how do you convince a patient to pay? He suggested to me to see an osteo and this was pretty good. He was just pressing or holding the muscles till they give in. Seems like this is what you TL and LTC have with your body workers.
As we know, each tooth has cusps on the outside and inside, i.e. like little hills in the middle of the tooth if you look in profile (i.e. like a saw). Molars have two cusps. Look for the base of the tooth (the gum and the roots). The tops of these hills would like on the same curve as do the gums underneath. It's very simple-- the physics, as I understand it myself. Just imagine that you have to bang strongly into smth on two poles, like a bench. Naturally you'd place the poles (the roots) perpendicular to the ground and will make the top of the bench parallel to the ground. If you won't do it this way the bench will soon start reclining on one side and will break, even the dirt underneath it will make "pockets", and the poles will get loose. This is exactly why the teeth break and the roots and the gums go bad if the contacts on the teeth are not right!!
LTC, remember, I asked you long ago about the shape of your face (jaw) when you asked smth about the overall shape of the dentures. If the jaw is more squared this line ("the plane") can be straight but if the jaw is steep from the ear to the chin then this line should be more curved (this is my case and likely TL's and yours). I'd imagine this is more typical for ladies while a squared chin is more masculine but it's my guess. Seems like your old dentures were more natural for you, and thus more comfy.
Somehow I feel that spring is just around the corner, the fall, winter went away for nothing, I only got worse... Spring will come soon, dentists' long spring breaks to Hawaii, mountains, Florida, Europe... then summer time -- they don't have patients on their minds much at that time, next fall, holidays, and here we go...-- not enough time to have the teeth fixed.
I feel like years fly now like days in one sense or like an eternity in the other sense...
I guess I am going down again in my mood, tho my brain still has slight fogg lifting from yesterday.
How are you feeling, TL and LTC?
My wish is very modest: to have the teeth before I die!;)
TL, like you I can't find my "lists" or notes. Spent an hour looking for the phone # of the new dentists (from KOIS center), got an additional headache from the search. Eventually found that I rewrote the # in a notebook in which I "suppose" to write all short info. Again, I start a new notebook all the time forgetting that I already have one or if I recall about it, I still have no idea where it might be...
I know the feeling of telling a dentist smth and watching him thinking is she crazy or not. Few of them told me straightforward that they already "checked on this" and that I am not crazy. Thanks to them! At least I'll know for myself. :D However, one of those refused to help me not to spoil his records, the other one made the last disaster in September.
I also had few "nice ones" who were very understanding and assured me that "they have patients like me all the time and I came to the right place!" Those were the ones who robbed me thousands of $ for nothing in the most obnoxious way!!
So what's left to do, whom to choose?
TL, do you also have the pain in your tmj joints themselves, not around them or in the muscles? You had a CtScan, right? What did they tell you besides the wear of the disks? Did you see your jaw path on the screen?
Maybe your jaw path goes slightly "across" the arches of your teeth (like mine does) which adds to your "bike pedals" feeling.
My jaw is hurting now since September as if it is twisted; like the bone to bone contacts. I wonder if this still can be muscular? I think I'll ask my local dentist for an mri. The problem is that I am very uncomfy to lie down straight w/o lots of pillows, need to hold my jaw. Maybe my ligament really tore or something after these dental "push-ups" of the jaw?!
Yes, the upper body strength is very related to the VDO. One NM did a "test" on me: he asked me to bite on my temps and easily could push my arms down; then he gave me cotton rolls to bite on and I could resist his push! I checked it at home too on other things and it is the case.
Want to put my two cents about chiros. This is just my personal view, surely, every specialist is different and what they do is not the same.
I was seeing a chiro many times when I had a pinched nerve in my neck (shortly after the dental work which I had no idea that had anything to do with this). He'd just crack my neck by a knock-out in the jaw. When at some point I felt that my belly-button moved off center of my belly to the side right after that and I said "good bye" to him. Now I wonder whether he added to my tmj problem since they always ask whether you had a blow in your head, jaw or neck.
A friend who is a PT doesn't like chiro's cracking as he says they do more harm than good; he even mentioned that they often do this "to impress the patient" since muscles can be made relaxed and the bones will align by actually totally unnoticeable work-- then how do you convince a patient to pay? He suggested to me to see an osteo and this was pretty good. He was just pressing or holding the muscles till they give in. Seems like this is what you TL and LTC have with your body workers.
As we know, each tooth has cusps on the outside and inside, i.e. like little hills in the middle of the tooth if you look in profile (i.e. like a saw). Molars have two cusps. Look for the base of the tooth (the gum and the roots). The tops of these hills would like on the same curve as do the gums underneath. It's very simple-- the physics, as I understand it myself. Just imagine that you have to bang strongly into smth on two poles, like a bench. Naturally you'd place the poles (the roots) perpendicular to the ground and will make the top of the bench parallel to the ground. If you won't do it this way the bench will soon start reclining on one side and will break, even the dirt underneath it will make "pockets", and the poles will get loose. This is exactly why the teeth break and the roots and the gums go bad if the contacts on the teeth are not right!!
LTC, remember, I asked you long ago about the shape of your face (jaw) when you asked smth about the overall shape of the dentures. If the jaw is more squared this line ("the plane") can be straight but if the jaw is steep from the ear to the chin then this line should be more curved (this is my case and likely TL's and yours). I'd imagine this is more typical for ladies while a squared chin is more masculine but it's my guess. Seems like your old dentures were more natural for you, and thus more comfy.
Somehow I feel that spring is just around the corner, the fall, winter went away for nothing, I only got worse... Spring will come soon, dentists' long spring breaks to Hawaii, mountains, Florida, Europe... then summer time -- they don't have patients on their minds much at that time, next fall, holidays, and here we go...-- not enough time to have the teeth fixed.
I feel like years fly now like days in one sense or like an eternity in the other sense...
I guess I am going down again in my mood, tho my brain still has slight fogg lifting from yesterday.
How are you feeling, TL and LTC?
Thelma-Louise
01-09-2009, 06:32 PM
Oh - we are bracing for snow here tomorrow as well - another 6-8 inches. My bro and his family were supposed to come from PA for the weekend but now cancelled - guess I will get to use the snow blower afterall.
LTC - if I remember correctly my upper teeth were much longer than my lower teeth - and the reason I remember this is I would try and brush up and down like dentists often tell you to - and this was fine on the top but on the bottom not as easy - it was better to just brush across the sides. Also I clearly remember my upper teeth on either side of my tongue which is virtually non -existant now. I think my upper central or middle molars are where I lost the VOD - that is where I feel the most difference with my tongue too.
I did read in a medical journal about drs working on growing teeth - actually had success but it was not teeth as we know it but a "stump" did present itself as a result of their efforts in which they could then attach crown - which is pretty amazing too even it they really did not get an actual tooth that would like on its own.
Stillhope - I don't have pain in the joints themselves but everywhere else - feels like a rubber band wrapped around my forehead, around my ears, across my upper lip and under my chin. I didn't see the jaw path on the CT or MRI - is that something I could actually see? But you mention something about the jaw path going slightly across the arches - now woudl that be why I feel like my back teeth cross over "some bone" way back there - LOL - I keep getting this feeling whether I am wearing temps or the overdenture that the sides of my molars are not on the right side of the jaw bone - that the entire tooth is either on one side of the gum or the other, but never centered squarely on the gum line - hard to explain for me. But with my natural teeth I did have this scissor like motion which felt like my upper back teeth woudl rotate around when I opened my mouth to speak - another thing hard to explain. I give up - I don't think I will ever get my teeth back but i would like to be able to find something comfortable that I can at least close my mouth around and not spasm when I try to open it. Some days my teeth actually feel llike the sides of them face upward instead of the horizontal surface - how do they get back both the vertical height and angle the teeth had - I always felt like the inner part of my molars were just as long as the outside side closer to the cheek - now its like I have no inner sides at all and my teeth are "bent" or bend trying to reach each other .
Most of the dentists I have been to - my current one too - use the arm test in adjusting the teeth but I often wonder what they are checking when the teeth they made are so big I can't close my mouth LOL.
Today was a rough day for me - even my bro picked up on it and when he called to cancel this weekend - said he could hear it in my voice - but I knew it would be - I could tell last night my body was having a hard time relaxing when I went to bed - its like I knew I wasn't really sleeping all night long. But this often happens too - I go 2-3 nights of not sleeping well and then finally crash and burn.
LTC - if I remember correctly my upper teeth were much longer than my lower teeth - and the reason I remember this is I would try and brush up and down like dentists often tell you to - and this was fine on the top but on the bottom not as easy - it was better to just brush across the sides. Also I clearly remember my upper teeth on either side of my tongue which is virtually non -existant now. I think my upper central or middle molars are where I lost the VOD - that is where I feel the most difference with my tongue too.
I did read in a medical journal about drs working on growing teeth - actually had success but it was not teeth as we know it but a "stump" did present itself as a result of their efforts in which they could then attach crown - which is pretty amazing too even it they really did not get an actual tooth that would like on its own.
Stillhope - I don't have pain in the joints themselves but everywhere else - feels like a rubber band wrapped around my forehead, around my ears, across my upper lip and under my chin. I didn't see the jaw path on the CT or MRI - is that something I could actually see? But you mention something about the jaw path going slightly across the arches - now woudl that be why I feel like my back teeth cross over "some bone" way back there - LOL - I keep getting this feeling whether I am wearing temps or the overdenture that the sides of my molars are not on the right side of the jaw bone - that the entire tooth is either on one side of the gum or the other, but never centered squarely on the gum line - hard to explain for me. But with my natural teeth I did have this scissor like motion which felt like my upper back teeth woudl rotate around when I opened my mouth to speak - another thing hard to explain. I give up - I don't think I will ever get my teeth back but i would like to be able to find something comfortable that I can at least close my mouth around and not spasm when I try to open it. Some days my teeth actually feel llike the sides of them face upward instead of the horizontal surface - how do they get back both the vertical height and angle the teeth had - I always felt like the inner part of my molars were just as long as the outside side closer to the cheek - now its like I have no inner sides at all and my teeth are "bent" or bend trying to reach each other .
Most of the dentists I have been to - my current one too - use the arm test in adjusting the teeth but I often wonder what they are checking when the teeth they made are so big I can't close my mouth LOL.
Today was a rough day for me - even my bro picked up on it and when he called to cancel this weekend - said he could hear it in my voice - but I knew it would be - I could tell last night my body was having a hard time relaxing when I went to bed - its like I knew I wasn't really sleeping all night long. But this often happens too - I go 2-3 nights of not sleeping well and then finally crash and burn.
luvtocamp
01-09-2009, 06:52 PM
HI
Stillhope- yes I have the slope style mouth, not square, downward.
Oh that would be great to grow new teeth, bad for the dentist probably but good for us.
About chiros, I see no reason for cracking and I don't want it. Alot of them use a little thing that they push on now, can't remember the name of it. I was wondering about that low level laser for my muscles tho, I read that some dentists even use them, none in my area that I know of. the one chiro I seen should not practice, she hurt my sacrum, tailbone and it still hurts and thats why I'm scared of them.
Are you getting sleep, I sure hope so. Do whatever you need to to get a good nights rest, I heard some people use melatonin, I've never tried it tho.
Hey even a magnesium pill before bed will help. A product called Natural Calm is a liquid magesium, I tried it and it did relax me, I ran out and just take the pill form of magnesium now.
I'm not sure this dentist wants me either, as I can't do the tens machine and I think he relies alot on it, like I can't fix tmj without my tens machine ya know. I'm not sure where this will go if anywhere. Maybe I should let him use the tens anyway.
What is that KIOS yous are talking about.
Oh dentist take Spring break, when they only work 3-4 days a week. I shoudn't talk bad about dentist, most of them want to make us better, but
it is the money hungry ones that really irritate me. Also there are some bad ones out there just like any profession.
Another good muscle relaxer, not as good as valium is Skelaxtin (sp.) it doesn't make one drowsy.
My mood is dripping too, maybe more so because of winter or because of the fact nothing is changing or getting better and like you said , time just flies by, but each day seems like an eternity. Where to get help and what to do is another stressor (the fear of a wrong move making things worst), just really depressing me.
Stillhope- yes I have the slope style mouth, not square, downward.
Oh that would be great to grow new teeth, bad for the dentist probably but good for us.
About chiros, I see no reason for cracking and I don't want it. Alot of them use a little thing that they push on now, can't remember the name of it. I was wondering about that low level laser for my muscles tho, I read that some dentists even use them, none in my area that I know of. the one chiro I seen should not practice, she hurt my sacrum, tailbone and it still hurts and thats why I'm scared of them.
Are you getting sleep, I sure hope so. Do whatever you need to to get a good nights rest, I heard some people use melatonin, I've never tried it tho.
Hey even a magnesium pill before bed will help. A product called Natural Calm is a liquid magesium, I tried it and it did relax me, I ran out and just take the pill form of magnesium now.
I'm not sure this dentist wants me either, as I can't do the tens machine and I think he relies alot on it, like I can't fix tmj without my tens machine ya know. I'm not sure where this will go if anywhere. Maybe I should let him use the tens anyway.
What is that KIOS yous are talking about.
Oh dentist take Spring break, when they only work 3-4 days a week. I shoudn't talk bad about dentist, most of them want to make us better, but
it is the money hungry ones that really irritate me. Also there are some bad ones out there just like any profession.
Another good muscle relaxer, not as good as valium is Skelaxtin (sp.) it doesn't make one drowsy.
My mood is dripping too, maybe more so because of winter or because of the fact nothing is changing or getting better and like you said , time just flies by, but each day seems like an eternity. Where to get help and what to do is another stressor (the fear of a wrong move making things worst), just really depressing me.
StillHope
01-09-2009, 09:42 PM
LTC, thanks for the Natural Calm, this sounds good. In fact, I've just started taking liquid Ca+Mg but in the morning. Maybe I should really take it at night. Maybe that's why I felt a bit more relaxed these days?? I slept a bit better too tho still can't force myself go to bed at any "normal time".
I heard from an experienced dentist (who was afraid to spoil his record on me) that I should look for someone who studied at KOIS Center. I think it's just the name of John Kois (who opened it). They teach a lot about occlusion and all that stuff. Don't know anything else. I'd say any extra course on occlusion won't hurt a dentist, that's for sure.
So I am not the only one feeling low... Some days it all seems to be so useless: tried it all hundred times already...
TL, when I had a CtScan they showed to me on the computer the sections of the scull and the joints; there was one slide where the computer drew a path of the jaw based on its bone structure; this line was over the x-ray of my jaw if viewed from the top. This path was not totally along the arch of my jaw. I forgot the details but I could clearly see that it showed that the jaw should move slightly from right to left (from the back towards the front) and this is what I can see in my mouth. BUT when they make the temps somehow they force the jaw to move slightly from left to right, which surely causes pain in the jaw.
No dentists was able to even see what I am telling them, and the one who did the Scan was one of those "nice" ones; he doesn't even want to give me the results of the test for which I paid, of course.
You write: ["I feel like my back teeth cross over "some bone" way back there- LOL - I keep getting this feeling whether I am wearing temps or the overdenture that the sides of my molars are not on the right side of the jaw bone - that the entire tooth is either on one side of the gum or the other, but never centered squarely on the gum line". ]
Does it mean that these teeth (their tops) are not sitting straight above their roots (in the gums) but angled? Like an inclined pole instead of the straight? This should be certainly remade since it will eventually cause the teeth to tip over, or loosen, etc. (like with the bench).
[But with my natural teeth I did have this scissor like motion which felt like my upper back teeth woudl rotate around when I opened my mouth to speak - another thing hard to explain.]
I think I can associate with this feeling. This is what I think is my long centric about. I bite to the back with the back part of the jaw up, then I have to release that back part, the jaw moves a bit forward and then I can actually chew, etc. If I'd have to bite on a nut (surely don't do that!) then I'd have to bite on that back part too, "behind that rotation", as you could likely call it. I don't know if this makes sense to you.
[Some days my teeth actually feel llike the sides of them face upward instead of the horizontal surface - how do they get back both the vertical height and angle the teeth had - I always felt like the inner part of my molars were just as long as the outside side closer to the cheek - now its like I have no inner sides at all and my teeth are "bent" or bend trying to reach each other.]
The inner tips on the upper teeth were giving you the height, together with the height of the valley between the cusps. This might be a big part of your problem which is adding to the unstable bite.
The outside cusps on the uppers are not involved that much in the bite, they are needed to keep the lower jaw from falling out of the "valley" in the middle of the upper teeth, they are more for aesthetics (their length should allow you to speak and close your mouth well). They can be slightly shorter than the inside cusps. I had them made too short which was wrong and this allowed my jaw to shift to one side and eventually wear out one disk.
Ideally, if you look from the front inside your mouth (like in the mirror) the tips of the lower teeth will lie on this "bowl" like curve (from side to side). I can draw this like: I i ---i I for the lower tips, and i I---I i for the upper tips of the cusps.
The slope of these cusps is steep in young people and wear out gradually. They can make it steep again if your jaw will tolerate (I think mine doesn't like it too steep, as I was told, due to my Class II occlusion).
If we could indeed open a lab together!:wave: Imagine how thorough we'd make the teeth for our patients!! Sometimes I feel like those who make the teeth (dentists, labs) never had any dental problems themselves!!
I heard from an experienced dentist (who was afraid to spoil his record on me) that I should look for someone who studied at KOIS Center. I think it's just the name of John Kois (who opened it). They teach a lot about occlusion and all that stuff. Don't know anything else. I'd say any extra course on occlusion won't hurt a dentist, that's for sure.
So I am not the only one feeling low... Some days it all seems to be so useless: tried it all hundred times already...
TL, when I had a CtScan they showed to me on the computer the sections of the scull and the joints; there was one slide where the computer drew a path of the jaw based on its bone structure; this line was over the x-ray of my jaw if viewed from the top. This path was not totally along the arch of my jaw. I forgot the details but I could clearly see that it showed that the jaw should move slightly from right to left (from the back towards the front) and this is what I can see in my mouth. BUT when they make the temps somehow they force the jaw to move slightly from left to right, which surely causes pain in the jaw.
No dentists was able to even see what I am telling them, and the one who did the Scan was one of those "nice" ones; he doesn't even want to give me the results of the test for which I paid, of course.
You write: ["I feel like my back teeth cross over "some bone" way back there- LOL - I keep getting this feeling whether I am wearing temps or the overdenture that the sides of my molars are not on the right side of the jaw bone - that the entire tooth is either on one side of the gum or the other, but never centered squarely on the gum line". ]
Does it mean that these teeth (their tops) are not sitting straight above their roots (in the gums) but angled? Like an inclined pole instead of the straight? This should be certainly remade since it will eventually cause the teeth to tip over, or loosen, etc. (like with the bench).
[But with my natural teeth I did have this scissor like motion which felt like my upper back teeth woudl rotate around when I opened my mouth to speak - another thing hard to explain.]
I think I can associate with this feeling. This is what I think is my long centric about. I bite to the back with the back part of the jaw up, then I have to release that back part, the jaw moves a bit forward and then I can actually chew, etc. If I'd have to bite on a nut (surely don't do that!) then I'd have to bite on that back part too, "behind that rotation", as you could likely call it. I don't know if this makes sense to you.
[Some days my teeth actually feel llike the sides of them face upward instead of the horizontal surface - how do they get back both the vertical height and angle the teeth had - I always felt like the inner part of my molars were just as long as the outside side closer to the cheek - now its like I have no inner sides at all and my teeth are "bent" or bend trying to reach each other.]
The inner tips on the upper teeth were giving you the height, together with the height of the valley between the cusps. This might be a big part of your problem which is adding to the unstable bite.
The outside cusps on the uppers are not involved that much in the bite, they are needed to keep the lower jaw from falling out of the "valley" in the middle of the upper teeth, they are more for aesthetics (their length should allow you to speak and close your mouth well). They can be slightly shorter than the inside cusps. I had them made too short which was wrong and this allowed my jaw to shift to one side and eventually wear out one disk.
Ideally, if you look from the front inside your mouth (like in the mirror) the tips of the lower teeth will lie on this "bowl" like curve (from side to side). I can draw this like: I i ---i I for the lower tips, and i I---I i for the upper tips of the cusps.
The slope of these cusps is steep in young people and wear out gradually. They can make it steep again if your jaw will tolerate (I think mine doesn't like it too steep, as I was told, due to my Class II occlusion).
If we could indeed open a lab together!:wave: Imagine how thorough we'd make the teeth for our patients!! Sometimes I feel like those who make the teeth (dentists, labs) never had any dental problems themselves!!
Thelma-Louise
01-11-2009, 02:05 AM
Sometimes the only way I think I will be able to resolve my problem is to make my own teeth as even with my original models dentists have been unable to recreate what I had. And I was so relieved when the dr that had taken it found it - I thought it was the end of my problems.
LTC - that "thingy" chiros use is called an activator - it sounds like a stapler or hole puncher when applied but it doesn't hurt, my first chiro used it and they can set the tension on it from very soft or gentle to harder - but even the hardest or most forceful setting doesn't hurt - but like everyhting else - anything that touches something sore or tender on our body - like our necks, whether it be the chiros hands or an activator is going to be painful no matter what is used.
I tried skelaxin a few years ago but to be honest I didn't see any benefit to it - the dose might have been too light though. Acutally none of the meds I tried actually took the pain away - some just dulled it more than others, but that often means my brain gets "dull" too and I sleep alot. I think that is what is most frustrating about our problem - since the pain is due to structural problems resulting form poor bites, there really isn't much you can do to stop it - its not like inflamation that usually responds to pain meds.
Very rough day today which is why I didn't post till now - I am haviing trouble with body pain again to the point I couldn't get up and walk - but once I did finally start moving around I didn't want to sit for fear I would stiffen up again. Plus I feel like I can not close my mouth on the left side - its feels "open" even when I put my lips together like something is in the way or holding it open. So the left side of my face and under my tongue on that side hurts too.
How are you guys doing? Do you both have dental appts next week?
LTC - that "thingy" chiros use is called an activator - it sounds like a stapler or hole puncher when applied but it doesn't hurt, my first chiro used it and they can set the tension on it from very soft or gentle to harder - but even the hardest or most forceful setting doesn't hurt - but like everyhting else - anything that touches something sore or tender on our body - like our necks, whether it be the chiros hands or an activator is going to be painful no matter what is used.
I tried skelaxin a few years ago but to be honest I didn't see any benefit to it - the dose might have been too light though. Acutally none of the meds I tried actually took the pain away - some just dulled it more than others, but that often means my brain gets "dull" too and I sleep alot. I think that is what is most frustrating about our problem - since the pain is due to structural problems resulting form poor bites, there really isn't much you can do to stop it - its not like inflamation that usually responds to pain meds.
Very rough day today which is why I didn't post till now - I am haviing trouble with body pain again to the point I couldn't get up and walk - but once I did finally start moving around I didn't want to sit for fear I would stiffen up again. Plus I feel like I can not close my mouth on the left side - its feels "open" even when I put my lips together like something is in the way or holding it open. So the left side of my face and under my tongue on that side hurts too.
How are you guys doing? Do you both have dental appts next week?
StillHope
01-11-2009, 03:30 AM
TL, sorry about your bad state today. What do you mean the mouth stays open even if you close your lips?
Since September when my last molar was filed down I have a feeling that smth is forcing my jaw on that side to lift up and back. I watched carefully in the mirror and realized (not long ago) that even though the contact became lower but the jaw wants badly to have that contact and it does not need to actually touch it!! It goes there like a magnet to be very close and stays there. On the right side I don't have a lower molar so it's like the jaw "gave up" and is not trying to find any contact on the right side. It's pretty amazing, I think. Maybe it's the tongue which is a quick "informer" and tells the jaw to move there even when I keep my teeth apart and do not close the jaw.
Is it similar to what you have?
Where is your body pain? Is it always in the same spots or is it going in loops: few days (or hours) it's one side in pain, later the other and so on?
I found that just as my jaw is "making circles", as a NM dentist who tried to monitor it after the tens told me, my body is going through the same circles of where it will hurt. From my body pains I can tell for sure (w/o a mirror) where my jaw is and the other way around.
In fact, I am a bit better the last two days. Last night slept from around midnight till 8-9 am, got up around 11am which I never do.
So today I focused on letting my jaw rest and it really feels better. Except when I decided to rub some muscle/joint cream in it I felt how much it hurts inside, maybe the ligaments are overstretched and/or inflamed.
But as the pain eases up my mood goes up, and I felt some hope and saw the light at the end... the question is WHEN this end will be??
I'll see two dentists next week. Hope to survive it. Currently my body creates so much adrenaline at any dental visit (no matter what happens there) that it takes several days for me to recover.
LTC, how about you? Buried under the snow? We are here.
Since September when my last molar was filed down I have a feeling that smth is forcing my jaw on that side to lift up and back. I watched carefully in the mirror and realized (not long ago) that even though the contact became lower but the jaw wants badly to have that contact and it does not need to actually touch it!! It goes there like a magnet to be very close and stays there. On the right side I don't have a lower molar so it's like the jaw "gave up" and is not trying to find any contact on the right side. It's pretty amazing, I think. Maybe it's the tongue which is a quick "informer" and tells the jaw to move there even when I keep my teeth apart and do not close the jaw.
Is it similar to what you have?
Where is your body pain? Is it always in the same spots or is it going in loops: few days (or hours) it's one side in pain, later the other and so on?
I found that just as my jaw is "making circles", as a NM dentist who tried to monitor it after the tens told me, my body is going through the same circles of where it will hurt. From my body pains I can tell for sure (w/o a mirror) where my jaw is and the other way around.
In fact, I am a bit better the last two days. Last night slept from around midnight till 8-9 am, got up around 11am which I never do.
So today I focused on letting my jaw rest and it really feels better. Except when I decided to rub some muscle/joint cream in it I felt how much it hurts inside, maybe the ligaments are overstretched and/or inflamed.
But as the pain eases up my mood goes up, and I felt some hope and saw the light at the end... the question is WHEN this end will be??
I'll see two dentists next week. Hope to survive it. Currently my body creates so much adrenaline at any dental visit (no matter what happens there) that it takes several days for me to recover.
LTC, how about you? Buried under the snow? We are here.
luvtocamp
01-11-2009, 07:36 AM
Yes it snowed all day yesterday-probably a good foot, sure have enough snow.
Stillhope- glad your getting more rest. What kind of joint cream do you use, ben gay.
Are you seeing two brand new dentist next week?
I have the dentist on tues, same one I've been seeing, if the weather is ok for the drive.
TL- yes the activator, I couldn't remember the name of it. That one chiro had a electric one and she hit the side of my head with it, and it was on high, and she said sorry- yea what a nut case she was, should have her liscense taken away.
Sorry your body hurts, mine is still tight on the right.
Well girls, I spent the $49 to download the Help for tmj program, just alot of exercises, and take mag. I might request my money back. We all know the exercises, I thought there may be a great tidbit of info, but not really. Some of them I can't do , you lay on the floor and twist yourself like a pretzel, hard to do when you sacrum hurts.
Yes skelaxtin is a mild muscle relaxer, doesn't work as well as soma or valium but doesnt' make you sleepy.
Do yous think its good if we do jaw exercises, like open as wide as we can and that?
did yous get the snow? It is bitter cold here today and suppose to be all week. this is our worst winter in a long time.
My new game plan- make a consult with the periodontist who can look at my ICAT scan to see if he can decipher anything, before starting any more treatment.
Maybe have my doctor order naprosyn to see if its occipital neuralgia. I hate taking Non- steroid anti-inflammatories but for diagnosis reasons I will, if they help with the pulsating in my head, maybe I should try the occipital nerve block. Get my bite adjusted Tues. Go and interview the chiro guy and find out more about the low level laser and how that may help.
I still feel like the lady in the bible who bled for 12 years, went to all the doctors, spent all her money and got no better, in fact she was worst. I'm sure yous can relate.
Stillhope- glad your getting more rest. What kind of joint cream do you use, ben gay.
Are you seeing two brand new dentist next week?
I have the dentist on tues, same one I've been seeing, if the weather is ok for the drive.
TL- yes the activator, I couldn't remember the name of it. That one chiro had a electric one and she hit the side of my head with it, and it was on high, and she said sorry- yea what a nut case she was, should have her liscense taken away.
Sorry your body hurts, mine is still tight on the right.
Well girls, I spent the $49 to download the Help for tmj program, just alot of exercises, and take mag. I might request my money back. We all know the exercises, I thought there may be a great tidbit of info, but not really. Some of them I can't do , you lay on the floor and twist yourself like a pretzel, hard to do when you sacrum hurts.
Yes skelaxtin is a mild muscle relaxer, doesn't work as well as soma or valium but doesnt' make you sleepy.
Do yous think its good if we do jaw exercises, like open as wide as we can and that?
did yous get the snow? It is bitter cold here today and suppose to be all week. this is our worst winter in a long time.
My new game plan- make a consult with the periodontist who can look at my ICAT scan to see if he can decipher anything, before starting any more treatment.
Maybe have my doctor order naprosyn to see if its occipital neuralgia. I hate taking Non- steroid anti-inflammatories but for diagnosis reasons I will, if they help with the pulsating in my head, maybe I should try the occipital nerve block. Get my bite adjusted Tues. Go and interview the chiro guy and find out more about the low level laser and how that may help.
I still feel like the lady in the bible who bled for 12 years, went to all the doctors, spent all her money and got no better, in fact she was worst. I'm sure yous can relate.
Thelma-Louise
01-11-2009, 12:35 PM
Some women at the chiros office the other day were telling me to ask my dr for med marijauna - they said it helped them - reminds me of being a teenager again only it would be legal for a change. Now where is that pipe my mom found in my jacket and conviscated one day and then lectured me for 4 hrs about how I would end up being a "druggie". LOL
Yes - I think the teeth on my upper left are so low that I want to rest that side but the jaws can not reach one another so maybe I get the feeling I am "stuck" open. The last tooth and the right side can touch but when they do they twist - the upper last tooth was filed so it looks like it is rotated sideways now - and that is part of it I guess.
The body pain - well it feels like bone pain actually, my hips hurt and my the shin bones hurt with every step and my hands are throbbing, not to mention my feet feel like there are marbles under them and I have pressure up in the rib cage area and shoulders. My chiro and dentist says it mirrors what is going on with my jaws and bite and the neck has a lot to do with it.
LTC - I used Naprosyn for sciatica at one point and my dr gave me 500mgs tablets to take 3 times a day. So at one point I ran out and instead went and bought Aleve but the instructions said to limit it to 2 -4 pills a day I think. When I finally got back to the dr he said I could take up to 6 aleve a day since they are each 220 mgs tablets of naproxen and 1500 mgs is OK daily. Naproxen (brand name naprosyn) works pretty good if you stay on it several days as it build up in the system. At one point I was taking a generic form of naproxen and found the aleve seemed to work better - unless it just seemed that way b/c I was taking 1 every 4-5 hours.
I think jaw exercises should be done - I find the wider I open my mouth the better it feels - it restretches the muscles and this can help them stay relaxed or just relieves the spasms plus it prevents those that are not being used much from atrophying from non-use.
Yeah - Stillhope - so who are you going to see next week? I am glad you feel a bit better and got more rest.
Well I am off to try and clear the driveway - we only got maybe 3-4 inches as it turned to sleet last night but now its a crusty mess and its supposed to get very cold next week so I went to clear whatever I can today.
Yes - I think the teeth on my upper left are so low that I want to rest that side but the jaws can not reach one another so maybe I get the feeling I am "stuck" open. The last tooth and the right side can touch but when they do they twist - the upper last tooth was filed so it looks like it is rotated sideways now - and that is part of it I guess.
The body pain - well it feels like bone pain actually, my hips hurt and my the shin bones hurt with every step and my hands are throbbing, not to mention my feet feel like there are marbles under them and I have pressure up in the rib cage area and shoulders. My chiro and dentist says it mirrors what is going on with my jaws and bite and the neck has a lot to do with it.
LTC - I used Naprosyn for sciatica at one point and my dr gave me 500mgs tablets to take 3 times a day. So at one point I ran out and instead went and bought Aleve but the instructions said to limit it to 2 -4 pills a day I think. When I finally got back to the dr he said I could take up to 6 aleve a day since they are each 220 mgs tablets of naproxen and 1500 mgs is OK daily. Naproxen (brand name naprosyn) works pretty good if you stay on it several days as it build up in the system. At one point I was taking a generic form of naproxen and found the aleve seemed to work better - unless it just seemed that way b/c I was taking 1 every 4-5 hours.
I think jaw exercises should be done - I find the wider I open my mouth the better it feels - it restretches the muscles and this can help them stay relaxed or just relieves the spasms plus it prevents those that are not being used much from atrophying from non-use.
Yeah - Stillhope - so who are you going to see next week? I am glad you feel a bit better and got more rest.
Well I am off to try and clear the driveway - we only got maybe 3-4 inches as it turned to sleet last night but now its a crusty mess and its supposed to get very cold next week so I went to clear whatever I can today.
luvtocamp
01-11-2009, 01:21 PM
The body pain - TL- its unreal isn't it, to have all the body pain to boot. it hurts just sitting for me. It was one thing to have the facial musclse spasms but now the body pain to go along with it.
My friend brought me over a joint, but have been too scared to take a hit. I did smoke when a teenager and that, but I gave it up when I went to basic training and haven't tried it sense. Is it legal in your state.
Hey just found out Wallgreens for $20 a year has lots of meds that are cheap, like baclofen, neurontin, muscle relaxers etc. they have a list on their site, I know you don't have med coverage. I'm thinking of dropping mine which costs $50 a month thruough BCBS (yep just for meds and they don't cover my valium) and just take what Wallgreens has to offer.
I can tell you for sure one thing - an unbalanced bite will affect the neck muscles and pull the rest of the body out of alignment which is happening to us. It just sounds like you are totally out of alignment again. Will this ever end.
I have never tried Aleve as my husband likes his Advil .
I wish you could afford to have someone do your driveway, its not good to be twisting and that with your body right now. Isn't this a horrible winter.
Hope you are dressed warm, is your driveway big, ours is pretty big.
My friend brought me over a joint, but have been too scared to take a hit. I did smoke when a teenager and that, but I gave it up when I went to basic training and haven't tried it sense. Is it legal in your state.
Hey just found out Wallgreens for $20 a year has lots of meds that are cheap, like baclofen, neurontin, muscle relaxers etc. they have a list on their site, I know you don't have med coverage. I'm thinking of dropping mine which costs $50 a month thruough BCBS (yep just for meds and they don't cover my valium) and just take what Wallgreens has to offer.
I can tell you for sure one thing - an unbalanced bite will affect the neck muscles and pull the rest of the body out of alignment which is happening to us. It just sounds like you are totally out of alignment again. Will this ever end.
I have never tried Aleve as my husband likes his Advil .
I wish you could afford to have someone do your driveway, its not good to be twisting and that with your body right now. Isn't this a horrible winter.
Hope you are dressed warm, is your driveway big, ours is pretty big.
StillHope
01-11-2009, 10:53 PM
Not new dentists: one - my local who will remove the last perm. crown on the upper molar and make a pair (upper+lower) temps instead. Hopefully, this will help or... get worse. So I am nervous already and my mood is unstable.
The next day I'll see the one who caused this last mess to possibly make a sleep appliance. I don't count on him much. Decided to wait with the new dentists until I will see where I will be after all that.
LTC, I rub Arnica gel, I really like it; it seems to help.
I wouldn't suggest to open the mouth wide open b/c with our unstable jaws/bites we better not risk to have an open lock! When the mouth is too open the disks slide forward.
I'd suggest instead to just guide your jaw with your hands on the sides of it (or fingers on the sides of the teeth) to open-close slowly and lightly not to the touch and not wide, just to make it recall its normal function and normal position. This is what helped me the last two days to reduce my "jaw walking all over"; I was doing it while sitting at the computer.
LTC, if you want the body exercises for the jaw, I think the best one is the child pose: sit on your heels, then lie down forward, head tucked in, arms stretched forward. This is the stretch for the lower back and back of the neck and this is what we need for the jaw. It's the same idea as standing and "pulling" your head towards the ceiling.
TL, I bet your shoulders are constantly lifted. Can you drop them down at all, let them "hang" and let the arms hang? Yes, the feet- that's exactly where I get it right away too. When I had massages and she touched the feet my jaw, throat, neck muscles would immediately start making noises and unwinding.
You can try to relax your feet, and massage them, let's say after a warm soak, see if this will help. There are different rollers, etc. for the feet. Usually it helps to relax the shoulders and then the neck and jaw.
When are you seeing your dentist? Did they call you at all?
It was a nice day here but I didn't make it to go out, my mind was spinning too much.
The next day I'll see the one who caused this last mess to possibly make a sleep appliance. I don't count on him much. Decided to wait with the new dentists until I will see where I will be after all that.
LTC, I rub Arnica gel, I really like it; it seems to help.
I wouldn't suggest to open the mouth wide open b/c with our unstable jaws/bites we better not risk to have an open lock! When the mouth is too open the disks slide forward.
I'd suggest instead to just guide your jaw with your hands on the sides of it (or fingers on the sides of the teeth) to open-close slowly and lightly not to the touch and not wide, just to make it recall its normal function and normal position. This is what helped me the last two days to reduce my "jaw walking all over"; I was doing it while sitting at the computer.
LTC, if you want the body exercises for the jaw, I think the best one is the child pose: sit on your heels, then lie down forward, head tucked in, arms stretched forward. This is the stretch for the lower back and back of the neck and this is what we need for the jaw. It's the same idea as standing and "pulling" your head towards the ceiling.
TL, I bet your shoulders are constantly lifted. Can you drop them down at all, let them "hang" and let the arms hang? Yes, the feet- that's exactly where I get it right away too. When I had massages and she touched the feet my jaw, throat, neck muscles would immediately start making noises and unwinding.
You can try to relax your feet, and massage them, let's say after a warm soak, see if this will help. There are different rollers, etc. for the feet. Usually it helps to relax the shoulders and then the neck and jaw.
When are you seeing your dentist? Did they call you at all?
It was a nice day here but I didn't make it to go out, my mind was spinning too much.
Thelma-Louise
01-12-2009, 12:32 PM
I have tried massaging my feet myself but I get no relief - yet let someone else do it and you are right - the neck unwinds immediately - its like sending shockwaves up the acupuncture meridian. At one point when I was doing cranial sacral therapy - I just couldn't wait for the therapist to get there - it was like pure bliss afterwards. I never thought about the rollers though - I will have to look into that.
My SIL and her daguhter from PA stayed over last night on their way to drop off my neice was returning to college in the Bronx today and I had a spasm at one point - I don't get to see my bros and his family that often since its a 3 1/2 hr drive there - so this was probably the first time they have seen one - and my SIL said omg you can actually see your neck twist! Usually I get stuck with my head sideways and tilted and one shoulder higher than the other and have to wait a min or so and then another spasm will unwind it and my neck will untwist - so basically she saw it while I was waiting for the 2nd spasm and she said you can see the actual force before the spasm - I was like yeah tell me about it - you should feel it! She said she could see my collar bone rotate and jutt out when I had the 2nd part of the spasm.
LTC - you mentioned botox the other day and I was thinking of trying it primarily b/c one neurologist I went to mentioned dystonia - a repetitive and irregular muscle movement that muscles will perform as a result of injury or fatigue, etc but it becomes a pattern or learned response and he said botox can help break the cycle by paralyzing the muscles and letting them return to their normal state.
Before I dropped the COBRA my dr helped me stockpile my meds knowing i wasn't going to have prescription coverage under medicare so I am OK so far with them - but I was going to look into Walgreens drug plan and also my county has one as well.
Actually my driveway wasn't too bad yesterday - but it is very large as the previous owners had extended it to allow for a turnaround and 3 more cars - but the snowblower worked great and we only had 3-4 ins - its the steps and the walk to the front door that get me - I think I will need to look into getting a small electric snow thrower - bc I can feel the strain on my neck when I try and pick up the shovel so basically I push it around and then get a broom out.
No call yet from the dentist yet - so maybe this week - he has a habit of calling Tuesdays - the same day as the chiro and I end up spending the day going to the chiro and back home only to go back out an hour later to the dentist.
Let me know you both make out with your appts this week. LTC - are seeing that new dr again today?
My SIL and her daguhter from PA stayed over last night on their way to drop off my neice was returning to college in the Bronx today and I had a spasm at one point - I don't get to see my bros and his family that often since its a 3 1/2 hr drive there - so this was probably the first time they have seen one - and my SIL said omg you can actually see your neck twist! Usually I get stuck with my head sideways and tilted and one shoulder higher than the other and have to wait a min or so and then another spasm will unwind it and my neck will untwist - so basically she saw it while I was waiting for the 2nd spasm and she said you can see the actual force before the spasm - I was like yeah tell me about it - you should feel it! She said she could see my collar bone rotate and jutt out when I had the 2nd part of the spasm.
LTC - you mentioned botox the other day and I was thinking of trying it primarily b/c one neurologist I went to mentioned dystonia - a repetitive and irregular muscle movement that muscles will perform as a result of injury or fatigue, etc but it becomes a pattern or learned response and he said botox can help break the cycle by paralyzing the muscles and letting them return to their normal state.
Before I dropped the COBRA my dr helped me stockpile my meds knowing i wasn't going to have prescription coverage under medicare so I am OK so far with them - but I was going to look into Walgreens drug plan and also my county has one as well.
Actually my driveway wasn't too bad yesterday - but it is very large as the previous owners had extended it to allow for a turnaround and 3 more cars - but the snowblower worked great and we only had 3-4 ins - its the steps and the walk to the front door that get me - I think I will need to look into getting a small electric snow thrower - bc I can feel the strain on my neck when I try and pick up the shovel so basically I push it around and then get a broom out.
No call yet from the dentist yet - so maybe this week - he has a habit of calling Tuesdays - the same day as the chiro and I end up spending the day going to the chiro and back home only to go back out an hour later to the dentist.
Let me know you both make out with your appts this week. LTC - are seeing that new dr again today?
luvtocamp
01-12-2009, 03:10 PM
Oh you have a big drive, glad your blower is working good now.
About botox, yes it weakens the muscles, I saw a show on Mystery ER of a guy that developed dystonia so bad he could only look sideways, and so they started botox on him and after several treatments he could look both ways and was out playing basketball. That is really something tho if other people can acturally see your spasms, of my gosh, I sure hope he gets your splints back soon so you know if its going to work or not, its no wonder your whole body hurts.
Well I have an appoint with my tmj dentist tomorrow, but we are suppose to get 5 more inches starting tonight so if I can go I don't know. what is he to do anyway, try lowering the high side I guess, but I'm getting to the point I can't stand wearing them anymore. Now that I'm leaving them both out at night, the upper and the lowers and then I put them in in the morning, right away it starts, with the tight neck on the side and muscle spasms both cheeks, and if I smile it feels like the skin pulls away from my ears.
The girl from the other dentist called to see how I was doing with leaving them out and she said they feel the dentures are all wrong and he wants to wait to see what the chiro says that he referred me too, but in the meantime she thinks that he can put a temporary reline in the set before these so I can at least get out of these until I can get into a new set, she is going to talk to him and call me later today.
Of course I think everything is an omen from God, I mean he lines things up in our lives sometimes , so maybe by accidently finding this new dentists website and never even of heard from him, maybe the Lord sent him in my path- I don't know, since I've been researching and calling many dentist in my area.
My appoint. with the chiro is Fri, I should cancell my comp audit and go in earlier if they have an opening. I am afraid of chiros cause remember how that one caused me the sacrum, coccyx pain I have, and I really like my osteo, but where am I getting with that.
Well got to make a quickie to the store, since the storm are coming.
About botox, yes it weakens the muscles, I saw a show on Mystery ER of a guy that developed dystonia so bad he could only look sideways, and so they started botox on him and after several treatments he could look both ways and was out playing basketball. That is really something tho if other people can acturally see your spasms, of my gosh, I sure hope he gets your splints back soon so you know if its going to work or not, its no wonder your whole body hurts.
Well I have an appoint with my tmj dentist tomorrow, but we are suppose to get 5 more inches starting tonight so if I can go I don't know. what is he to do anyway, try lowering the high side I guess, but I'm getting to the point I can't stand wearing them anymore. Now that I'm leaving them both out at night, the upper and the lowers and then I put them in in the morning, right away it starts, with the tight neck on the side and muscle spasms both cheeks, and if I smile it feels like the skin pulls away from my ears.
The girl from the other dentist called to see how I was doing with leaving them out and she said they feel the dentures are all wrong and he wants to wait to see what the chiro says that he referred me too, but in the meantime she thinks that he can put a temporary reline in the set before these so I can at least get out of these until I can get into a new set, she is going to talk to him and call me later today.
Of course I think everything is an omen from God, I mean he lines things up in our lives sometimes , so maybe by accidently finding this new dentists website and never even of heard from him, maybe the Lord sent him in my path- I don't know, since I've been researching and calling many dentist in my area.
My appoint. with the chiro is Fri, I should cancell my comp audit and go in earlier if they have an opening. I am afraid of chiros cause remember how that one caused me the sacrum, coccyx pain I have, and I really like my osteo, but where am I getting with that.
Well got to make a quickie to the store, since the storm are coming.
StillHope
01-12-2009, 06:31 PM
LTC, this is a good sign that they called you from the new dentist to ask how you are doing. Of course, some offices do this kind of "care" until they get the money and later you can't recognize their behavior since it changes so much. On the other hand, there are offices where they don't even bother pretending that they care b/c they will get your money anyway. In the first case at least there is some hope that this dentist really wants to help you which is great. Relining your old dentures so that you won't suffer while waiting is a big plus about him as well.
I'll put my "cosmic energy" for this to work for you!! We all want to see success stories.
Yah, from what I know, you can find a complaint but they are not dealing with the money issues! It's totally independent. You'll have to try to get your money on your own.
BTW, I never heard from that dentist who charged me $500 for two consults. Will try to write him again but what can I do??? Nothing, unfortunately. If he didn't have enough morals and charged me this way when I was next to unconscious in his office, I doubt that suddenly my letter will evoke his morals out of nowhere...
Today I had my last molar crown removed and two teeth re-prepared. My dentist charged me the fee as for the ceramics tho we are very far from that in my case. He asked me "don't you want to do them with me?" It's interesting b/c before he was afraid to take my case due to my tmj, muscle, bite problems. I suspect that the bad economy demands them now to be more brave. To tell the truth, I am not too sure I want him to do it all b/c I will be the first one on whom he will do what I need. I'll try to create a plan so that he can indeed start with two ceramics, maybe then I will know better.
He is very good himself but he lets too much work to be done by his assistant. At this stage I can do the same work better than she does. I know two patients who left him b/c they didn't feel it's right to pay such fees for the assistant to do the work. What would be a polite way to ask him that he, himself will do my case??
TL, I read about NUCCA chiro's and it does seem to be different from bone cracking. I searched for NJ and got only one name (a guy). But you are seeing a NUCCA chiro, a lady, right?
How did you find her?
I also found a Blair technique chiro right in my neighborhood. Do you know anything about it? Does your nucca lady use this as well? It was mentioned on one of the nucca sites.
Now I need to work on my unwinding to make a BR, so it might be good
to see a nucca chiro to check my neck b/c it's so unstable.
I'll put my "cosmic energy" for this to work for you!! We all want to see success stories.
Yah, from what I know, you can find a complaint but they are not dealing with the money issues! It's totally independent. You'll have to try to get your money on your own.
BTW, I never heard from that dentist who charged me $500 for two consults. Will try to write him again but what can I do??? Nothing, unfortunately. If he didn't have enough morals and charged me this way when I was next to unconscious in his office, I doubt that suddenly my letter will evoke his morals out of nowhere...
Today I had my last molar crown removed and two teeth re-prepared. My dentist charged me the fee as for the ceramics tho we are very far from that in my case. He asked me "don't you want to do them with me?" It's interesting b/c before he was afraid to take my case due to my tmj, muscle, bite problems. I suspect that the bad economy demands them now to be more brave. To tell the truth, I am not too sure I want him to do it all b/c I will be the first one on whom he will do what I need. I'll try to create a plan so that he can indeed start with two ceramics, maybe then I will know better.
He is very good himself but he lets too much work to be done by his assistant. At this stage I can do the same work better than she does. I know two patients who left him b/c they didn't feel it's right to pay such fees for the assistant to do the work. What would be a polite way to ask him that he, himself will do my case??
TL, I read about NUCCA chiro's and it does seem to be different from bone cracking. I searched for NJ and got only one name (a guy). But you are seeing a NUCCA chiro, a lady, right?
How did you find her?
I also found a Blair technique chiro right in my neighborhood. Do you know anything about it? Does your nucca lady use this as well? It was mentioned on one of the nucca sites.
Now I need to work on my unwinding to make a BR, so it might be good
to see a nucca chiro to check my neck b/c it's so unstable.
luvtocamp
01-12-2009, 06:56 PM
Well thats good your getting some work done, So he wants to recrown them, I don't know much about crowns but after you get a tooth prepped shouldn't the crown be put on soon afterwards. It is hard to know what to do, did you asked him what changed his mind about working on you? You mean he has his dental assistants do some of the work? I'm not sure thats legal is it? I would tell him with the type of problems you are having that you only want him to do the work.
It maybe good to see a chiro, I am leary as I had a bad exp. with the one. But they can do an xray and be able to tell you if "your head is not on straight" We have no upper cervial chiros in my area, its good you have one in your backyard. A consult wouldn't hurt ya know.
That is so trure you never really know until after a few visits what the dentist is going to be like.
Oh that dentist is just going to write you off it sounds like, I would keep hounding him. Call his office enough times and demand to talk to him and he'll get tired of it and maybe send you some of your money back. Unreal isn't it.
One thing good you didn't start treatment with him, that would of probably turned into a nighmare, he probably makes his money off of consults!!!!!!!!!!
It maybe good to see a chiro, I am leary as I had a bad exp. with the one. But they can do an xray and be able to tell you if "your head is not on straight" We have no upper cervial chiros in my area, its good you have one in your backyard. A consult wouldn't hurt ya know.
That is so trure you never really know until after a few visits what the dentist is going to be like.
Oh that dentist is just going to write you off it sounds like, I would keep hounding him. Call his office enough times and demand to talk to him and he'll get tired of it and maybe send you some of your money back. Unreal isn't it.
One thing good you didn't start treatment with him, that would of probably turned into a nighmare, he probably makes his money off of consults!!!!!!!!!!
Thelma-Louise
01-12-2009, 07:44 PM
My 2nd chiro was a NUCCA chiro - he is in White Plains NY. I went to him for 7-8 months from 2006 - 2007. The one you found in your search was in Marlboro in Monmouth County? I was referred to him by my 3rd (and former) tmj dentist - a nm dentist in Orange Cnty NY after he reviewed my MRI and CT scans and noticed a discrepancy based on some type of cranial charting or mapping of measurements he did using carbon paper over the films. The NUCCA chiro however also took his own films and did the same to get an accurate measurement of how far off the atlas was - mine was off 3/4 of a degree and supposedly even being off 1/10th of a degress can cause some symptoms.
My current chiro (my 3rd so far) is a member of ICAK and uses applied kinesiology - he is good too as he not only adjusts the atlas and axis but the entire cranium as well - and no cracking either. I started with him in July 2007 and go weekly - my current (and 4th) tmj dentist referred me to him as well.
I have never heard of the Blair technique and will have to research it.
But I agree, Stillhope - just explain to this dentist b/c of your muscular and tmj issues you would prefer he did most of the work and not his assts. My first tmj dr did this - had his assts do all the work and he would come in and "check" things out - what is up with that - do you want to be a dentist or not? like suddenly its beneath them to actually work? yet he claimed he was an a tmj specialist - hello? how can that be if you don't actually do the work yourself? arrgh!
Yes - it is a good sign the new dental office called you LTC - yes, some offices do this to ensure future business, but with the state of array our mouths are in I will take any sign of concern dentists show at this point - although it does usually ebb a bit once you become a long standing patient - but some don't care right from the start which is not what we need at all. How many times has your current tmj dentist called you during your treatment with him? At least mine is still calling or emailing when we try something new. Again another reason why I don't want to jump ship sometimes - even though I keep telling myself I should be more focused on progress and improvement and not on just how caring he may be.
I am glad you are seeing the chiro - I was very nervous with each new chiro as well - so I told each one that - and told them to go easy until I felt comfortable enough to trust what they are doing. Rembmer it is still your body they are working on and you have a right to know and understand what they are doing and how they will do it and what to expect. As you know my current chiro can be quite gruff and abrupt with me at times - yet b/c his treatment has worked I just put up with his "drill sargeant" demeanor - I think sometimes its just a front though - I think he gets a lot of moaning and groaning and "why me?" and self-pity from his patients and its his way of telling you to pull up your pants, be a man and deal with it - LOL.
Oh I defintely belieive in omens and fate or kismet and feel most things happen for a reason and God helps us in unexpected and mysterious ways when we get "stuck" or at a crossroad - so by all means "keep the faith".
I didn't do anything today - I think I am in the mode of "just need some sleep" again so I spent the day sitting on the couch and dosing on and off.
My current chiro (my 3rd so far) is a member of ICAK and uses applied kinesiology - he is good too as he not only adjusts the atlas and axis but the entire cranium as well - and no cracking either. I started with him in July 2007 and go weekly - my current (and 4th) tmj dentist referred me to him as well.
I have never heard of the Blair technique and will have to research it.
But I agree, Stillhope - just explain to this dentist b/c of your muscular and tmj issues you would prefer he did most of the work and not his assts. My first tmj dr did this - had his assts do all the work and he would come in and "check" things out - what is up with that - do you want to be a dentist or not? like suddenly its beneath them to actually work? yet he claimed he was an a tmj specialist - hello? how can that be if you don't actually do the work yourself? arrgh!
Yes - it is a good sign the new dental office called you LTC - yes, some offices do this to ensure future business, but with the state of array our mouths are in I will take any sign of concern dentists show at this point - although it does usually ebb a bit once you become a long standing patient - but some don't care right from the start which is not what we need at all. How many times has your current tmj dentist called you during your treatment with him? At least mine is still calling or emailing when we try something new. Again another reason why I don't want to jump ship sometimes - even though I keep telling myself I should be more focused on progress and improvement and not on just how caring he may be.
I am glad you are seeing the chiro - I was very nervous with each new chiro as well - so I told each one that - and told them to go easy until I felt comfortable enough to trust what they are doing. Rembmer it is still your body they are working on and you have a right to know and understand what they are doing and how they will do it and what to expect. As you know my current chiro can be quite gruff and abrupt with me at times - yet b/c his treatment has worked I just put up with his "drill sargeant" demeanor - I think sometimes its just a front though - I think he gets a lot of moaning and groaning and "why me?" and self-pity from his patients and its his way of telling you to pull up your pants, be a man and deal with it - LOL.
Oh I defintely belieive in omens and fate or kismet and feel most things happen for a reason and God helps us in unexpected and mysterious ways when we get "stuck" or at a crossroad - so by all means "keep the faith".
I didn't do anything today - I think I am in the mode of "just need some sleep" again so I spent the day sitting on the couch and dosing on and off.
StillHope
01-12-2009, 07:50 PM
LTC, [One thing good you didn't start treatment with him, that would of probably turned into a nighmare, he probably makes his money off of consults!!!!!!!!!!] -- I know! I thought that too that I "only lost $500".
This is not the only story, I heard similar stories from people being "happy and lucky" for just being back to where they were before loosing lots of $ for nothing. It's a shame for dentistry!
Thanks for your encouragement to hound the dentist.
I am curious about your chiro visit. Hope he won't crack any bones.
This is not the only story, I heard similar stories from people being "happy and lucky" for just being back to where they were before loosing lots of $ for nothing. It's a shame for dentistry!
Thanks for your encouragement to hound the dentist.
I am curious about your chiro visit. Hope he won't crack any bones.
StillHope
01-12-2009, 08:10 PM
Thanks, TL for the info. Yes, I found the one in Marlboro. So he was good or OK? I'll check on the ICAK too; just want to make sure that my head is "in place". I don't like that it slips out forward or backward so easily. I know the wrong bite does it but shouldn't it still be more stable?? I'd assume. And I do have lots of very sore places on my skull and on the back of the neck.
I hope so much that your splints will be good so that you can continue with your dentist who is caring and wants to help you. It's so much effort to introduce any new dentist to a problem like we have and after a while they still say "we gave it a thought and... look for a specialist", even if that dentist himself is one of the highest specialists!!
Like you I will likely be sitting on the couch trying to get some sleep. My jaw is looking all over for that last molar (which is not there anymore) and is driving me crazy. Couldn't we just "turn off" the muscles?!;)
I hope so much that your splints will be good so that you can continue with your dentist who is caring and wants to help you. It's so much effort to introduce any new dentist to a problem like we have and after a while they still say "we gave it a thought and... look for a specialist", even if that dentist himself is one of the highest specialists!!
Like you I will likely be sitting on the couch trying to get some sleep. My jaw is looking all over for that last molar (which is not there anymore) and is driving me crazy. Couldn't we just "turn off" the muscles?!;)
Thelma-Louise
01-13-2009, 12:22 AM
Stillhope - i think the way I worded my post may have been misleading - I didn't mean I went to the guy in Marlboro - only that he is listed as NUCCA chiro on the NUCCA website - as is the dr I went to in White Plains. Sorry - even letting my fingers do the talking still requires a functioning brain and mine is often MIA. If you do go to the one in Marlboro ask if he does his adjustments manually or uses a machine (Atlas Orthogonal Instrument). Also - closely similar to NUCCA chiros - and I guess with the Blair treatments as well - since I did read up on that today - is the Atlas Orthogonal Dr of Chiropractics but they tend to use only the machine.
luvtocamp
01-13-2009, 09:16 AM
Stillhope- anytime they mess with my bite my neck goes out it seems. With these new dentures I have really noticed it even during the impression process the way it was done.
All I can say is the bite really affects the upper neck, so would be good to get checked out.
I bet it is different now that your crowns are removed, like something is no longer there, its a major change.
Well got my dentist at noon, if the roads are ok.
TL- ask your chiro what his opinion is on botox, and good luck with your visit,
and I also hope your splints work so you don't need to change dentist.
All I can say is the bite really affects the upper neck, so would be good to get checked out.
I bet it is different now that your crowns are removed, like something is no longer there, its a major change.
Well got my dentist at noon, if the roads are ok.
TL- ask your chiro what his opinion is on botox, and good luck with your visit,
and I also hope your splints work so you don't need to change dentist.
Thelma-Louise
01-13-2009, 05:27 PM
I forgot to ask the chiro about the botox as I was focused on asking him about my SILs sister who called me last night about a facial problem she is having after having a neuroma removed from behind her ear last summer. After the procedure she developed muscular problems around one eye and the same side of her face and she is totally distraught over it as she says she looks disfigured now. I'll try and remember to ask him next time but I think I know what his answer will be since he is a holistic dr - he wasn't crazy about the prolotherapy when I asked him about it, so I doubt he will feel any different about the botox. But some members on other boards here with muscular and nerve issues tend to swear by it.
How did you make out at the dentist - were you able to keep your appt?
How did you make out at the dentist - were you able to keep your appt?
luvtocamp
01-14-2009, 08:03 AM
Sorry to hear about your SIL- did he tell you to tell her to come and see him.
Not well , he didn't do any adjustment after he called the osteo. And then when I was leaving the office, he said he can't glue on what he takes off and I sure don't want to have to pay for new dentures, I just looked at him and left.
He hasn't done any adjustments that the osteo didn't tell him to do so in my mine these are his dentures.
I sometimes feel like a gutless wonder, I tell him stuff and he just refutes it and tells me my body is out of alignment and my bite is balanced and its just me. I once again told him how high I'm on the one side and how I miss that molar on the left like nothing is there, and he said your hitting on that side and there wasn't room for the molar, well you know the story, dentist right-patient wrong.
I waited for about an hour after my appoint. time, as the weather put them behind, so by the time I got home, I just went and took a nap, frustrated.
So pretty much a wasted trip as he did nothing but check the bite. When he checks the bite he has me slide forward and not up and down, like most dentists do.
I just don't know. Are you feeling better after the chiro?
Not well , he didn't do any adjustment after he called the osteo. And then when I was leaving the office, he said he can't glue on what he takes off and I sure don't want to have to pay for new dentures, I just looked at him and left.
He hasn't done any adjustments that the osteo didn't tell him to do so in my mine these are his dentures.
I sometimes feel like a gutless wonder, I tell him stuff and he just refutes it and tells me my body is out of alignment and my bite is balanced and its just me. I once again told him how high I'm on the one side and how I miss that molar on the left like nothing is there, and he said your hitting on that side and there wasn't room for the molar, well you know the story, dentist right-patient wrong.
I waited for about an hour after my appoint. time, as the weather put them behind, so by the time I got home, I just went and took a nap, frustrated.
So pretty much a wasted trip as he did nothing but check the bite. When he checks the bite he has me slide forward and not up and down, like most dentists do.
I just don't know. Are you feeling better after the chiro?
Thelma-Louise
01-14-2009, 12:00 PM
I do feel better after seeing the chiro - yesterday he worked on the top and left side of my head - and I find it just amazing that those adjustments affect my hands, hips and feet - but it creeps back slowly over the course of the day and next. Funny thing is now I am noticing after each adjustment how messed up my teeth really are - whereas before I could visually see both sides were filed differently, now its like I am feeling the weight difference too with the longer side feeling heavier. Is that what you have going on? Again by the time I got home all I could do was take a nap - some nap - I slept almost 2 hrs on the couch when all I wanted to do was just sit down for a bit.
Yes, the chiro did tell me to ask my SILs sister to call him - said he would like to see her to see what is going on - she'll probably go since she is so desperate at this point for any help.
Its sad to say but it just sounds like your current dentist is not helping at this point and this happens - it happened with my 2nd dentist and at one point I told him I could not afford to make the trip to the NYC just to talk and if that is what he wanted to do for the $250 an hour he charged - well then a phone call would be more cost affective. I wasn't with him much longer after that comment.
See - this is the main issue - how do they determine that the force of the bite from side to side is different - using carbon paper generally indicates little points of interference - and this is why neuro dentists swear by their tens units - as the monitor the electrodes are connected to can measure the force on both sides. When you look at the denture and your bottom teeth can you actually see a difference from side to side there or do you think it has something to do with the contour of your bone and gum on top being different from side to side? He should probably try putting a thick paste over the tops of your lower teeth and ask you to bite into that - if one side is longer he will get more of an impression in the paste on that side.
So are you going to try the chiro this Friday - listen nothing says you have to let him do an adjustment once you get there - some will just talk to you on the first appt and not charge you - if he's any good, he does not want you to be nervous or scared and will do what it takes to make you comfortable. Just come right out and ask "do you crack" the verterbrae and tell him that is not what you are looking for.
Do you dream about this at night - the last few nights I have bene dreaming about my teeth bothering me and not finding anyone to fix it - sleep used to be my one escape from this and now its permeating that too.
Yes, the chiro did tell me to ask my SILs sister to call him - said he would like to see her to see what is going on - she'll probably go since she is so desperate at this point for any help.
Its sad to say but it just sounds like your current dentist is not helping at this point and this happens - it happened with my 2nd dentist and at one point I told him I could not afford to make the trip to the NYC just to talk and if that is what he wanted to do for the $250 an hour he charged - well then a phone call would be more cost affective. I wasn't with him much longer after that comment.
See - this is the main issue - how do they determine that the force of the bite from side to side is different - using carbon paper generally indicates little points of interference - and this is why neuro dentists swear by their tens units - as the monitor the electrodes are connected to can measure the force on both sides. When you look at the denture and your bottom teeth can you actually see a difference from side to side there or do you think it has something to do with the contour of your bone and gum on top being different from side to side? He should probably try putting a thick paste over the tops of your lower teeth and ask you to bite into that - if one side is longer he will get more of an impression in the paste on that side.
So are you going to try the chiro this Friday - listen nothing says you have to let him do an adjustment once you get there - some will just talk to you on the first appt and not charge you - if he's any good, he does not want you to be nervous or scared and will do what it takes to make you comfortable. Just come right out and ask "do you crack" the verterbrae and tell him that is not what you are looking for.
Do you dream about this at night - the last few nights I have bene dreaming about my teeth bothering me and not finding anyone to fix it - sleep used to be my one escape from this and now its permeating that too.
luvtocamp
01-14-2009, 12:34 PM
Interesting, now the side that is heavy, that I hit when I talk and that keeps my mouth open is the side with the tight muscles of the neck and that, You would think them that I wouldn't hit on that side if the muscles are tight.
When you slowly close your mouth do you feel one side hit first?? That is how I feel. the side that hits heavy is where the muscle spasms are more also and feels like my ear or something is out of place. Now it could be the fit of the partial I don't know, but something is wrong.
I will keep the chiro appoint just to get a feel from him, and what he does and how he works ya know. I will not have my neck cracked!!
No- thank goodness I don't dream about my teeth, if I do I dont' remember them, it'd probably be a nightmare. I seldom remember any dreams tho.
Ya know I was just talking to my SIL- she says I'm too nice like her, even if I get a bad haircut, I won't say anything as I'd hate to hurt her feelings,
are you like us?
Because I do like my dentist, I guess its more a like/dislike relationship, I hate to say "ya know you have done nothing but make me worst"
The girl from the other dentist office called and she said he could reline my old set but wanted to know what the chiro says.
this is so darn scary, changing everything and starting fresh, what if the new one makes me worst yet? Ever think of that?
Do you ever feel like your in this pit, and you want to try to climb out, but you just don't know the way out? You have two ropes, which one do you trust to pull you out without breaking when your halfway up.
Depressing aren't I. PS: do you think detist check this site or have their office girls montior it. I mean if mine did he'd know it was me I'm quite sure. TL- did you notice our join dates are a month apart. Oh we've been here for so long, much longer than I could of ever imagined.
When you slowly close your mouth do you feel one side hit first?? That is how I feel. the side that hits heavy is where the muscle spasms are more also and feels like my ear or something is out of place. Now it could be the fit of the partial I don't know, but something is wrong.
I will keep the chiro appoint just to get a feel from him, and what he does and how he works ya know. I will not have my neck cracked!!
No- thank goodness I don't dream about my teeth, if I do I dont' remember them, it'd probably be a nightmare. I seldom remember any dreams tho.
Ya know I was just talking to my SIL- she says I'm too nice like her, even if I get a bad haircut, I won't say anything as I'd hate to hurt her feelings,
are you like us?
Because I do like my dentist, I guess its more a like/dislike relationship, I hate to say "ya know you have done nothing but make me worst"
The girl from the other dentist office called and she said he could reline my old set but wanted to know what the chiro says.
this is so darn scary, changing everything and starting fresh, what if the new one makes me worst yet? Ever think of that?
Do you ever feel like your in this pit, and you want to try to climb out, but you just don't know the way out? You have two ropes, which one do you trust to pull you out without breaking when your halfway up.
Depressing aren't I. PS: do you think detist check this site or have their office girls montior it. I mean if mine did he'd know it was me I'm quite sure. TL- did you notice our join dates are a month apart. Oh we've been here for so long, much longer than I could of ever imagined.
Thelma-Louise
01-14-2009, 08:49 PM
Oh my sister tells me all the time I am too nice, I let people walk all over me, I am a goody two shoes - the best is - you just want people to like you. I do have my limits though but I just never know what the straw on the camels back will be. But I have complained when I have gotten a bad haircut - there was a time when I was younger where I was a fanatic about it and if someone messed up the cut I would have a fit.:o
When I close my mouth nothing really hits and that's when my lower jaw will pull up on one side or the other trying to meet the top - so I teeter totter trying to have at least one side meet or touch - so I always feel like either my palate is tipped one way or the other or my lower is pushed up or down on one side or the other. I get a pulling sensation from side to side when I try to open - as if the upper horseshoe (the upper jaw) rotates and then tilts a bit as my facial muscles move around it - I have no clue what that is from.
That's my biggest worry too - that someone will make it worse than it already is. It becomes easy just to put up with the same old dentist and treatment or adjustments since we know what to expect - which is bascially nothing - but still better than the unknown which could be worse. I keep hoping my dentist will get it right soon - I know I am dreading going to someone else and starting over. Its one of the reasons though I have been opting to do only removable temps - I need to know if whatever is made makes me worse I can remove it and go back to being the way I am now - miserable but not suicidal.
Yeah - a pit is a good analogy - sometmes I think it feels like a maze - go this way, no go this way - how do we find our way out of it?
No I never noticed we joined around the same time - the first time though I got so depressed and overwhelmed by all the info I did not know I didn't come back for a few months. And then at one point I felt that I better start learning things quick b/c it was getting worse. Now that I look at it I joined about a month after my symptoms started. To be honest I never thought it would take this long to resolve this - I thought maybe 3-4 months - 6 at most. I once mentioned this site to my dentist and then never did again for fear he would be able to pick out who I am - but all he has to do is search his name and these posts will pop up - have you ever noticed sometimes our posts will appear in a search result?
[Please don't mention any search engines. Just write "search" for this or that for the name or item. Thanks - Well-come Moderator.]
When I close my mouth nothing really hits and that's when my lower jaw will pull up on one side or the other trying to meet the top - so I teeter totter trying to have at least one side meet or touch - so I always feel like either my palate is tipped one way or the other or my lower is pushed up or down on one side or the other. I get a pulling sensation from side to side when I try to open - as if the upper horseshoe (the upper jaw) rotates and then tilts a bit as my facial muscles move around it - I have no clue what that is from.
That's my biggest worry too - that someone will make it worse than it already is. It becomes easy just to put up with the same old dentist and treatment or adjustments since we know what to expect - which is bascially nothing - but still better than the unknown which could be worse. I keep hoping my dentist will get it right soon - I know I am dreading going to someone else and starting over. Its one of the reasons though I have been opting to do only removable temps - I need to know if whatever is made makes me worse I can remove it and go back to being the way I am now - miserable but not suicidal.
Yeah - a pit is a good analogy - sometmes I think it feels like a maze - go this way, no go this way - how do we find our way out of it?
No I never noticed we joined around the same time - the first time though I got so depressed and overwhelmed by all the info I did not know I didn't come back for a few months. And then at one point I felt that I better start learning things quick b/c it was getting worse. Now that I look at it I joined about a month after my symptoms started. To be honest I never thought it would take this long to resolve this - I thought maybe 3-4 months - 6 at most. I once mentioned this site to my dentist and then never did again for fear he would be able to pick out who I am - but all he has to do is search his name and these posts will pop up - have you ever noticed sometimes our posts will appear in a search result?
[Please don't mention any search engines. Just write "search" for this or that for the name or item. Thanks - Well-come Moderator.]
StillHope
01-14-2009, 11:32 PM
Was feeling too low to even post here after my dental visit.
Yah, I feel all the time that I am in pit and try to climb out; sometimes I get half-way and then ... next dentist brings me right to the bottom!
LTC, it does seem that your current dentist is just stretching the time. You definitely should not hit the teeth first on one side only besides only the back teeth as you said before. This should be adjusted!
I know all about being too nice. This is why I wasted so much time and money by being afraid to tell them smth "not nice". Now I started telling things straightforward, in the most polite way I can. If they drop me, the sooner, the better. Like with the last dentist -- I lost "only" $500, could have been worse.
This is what I meant, remember, when I said that maybe it was on my destiny to learn "how to bite". Maybe this was the God's reason for me to ruin my life with the teeth problem until I will get it! I have to learn how to protect myself and to "bite back". It's not easy in any way ( at least for me).
Tensing and monitoring don't show well the uneven contacts. I even had a special test of the bite forces with which the dentist in Florida "proved" that he did a good job. This was when in his temps I could not even get back to the hotel because of the excruciating pain in the teeth, could not even chew a banana and my TMJ seriously started! What happens is that the teeth immediately lead to the "balanced" contacts but this does not mean that when you bite in your real biting position these contacts are balanced!
I think these all are showing off techniques to charge more money.
I share your feelings of being afraid of it getting worse. Previously I thought few times that it couldn't go worse but thanks to dental work it did. After Monday's visit I wrote to my dentist telling him to do most of the dental work himself, will let you know if he'll reply. But I am very doubtful that I want to do everything with him. He never uses the bow articulator which I definitely use (he confirmed that) and there are other concerns too.
But just as you are, I am afraid to start looking for someone else. Meanwhile time is going by... season after season, year after year...
TL, I liked your [...I need to know if whatever is made makes me worse I can remove it and go back to being the way I am now - miserable but not suicidal.] -- that's exactly how I feel!! You just say so well all my thoughts and feelings!
I am not very concerned about the dentists checking our posts. If they are making money on our sufferings what do you think they expect us to feel about them??? ;). I don't think they will spend their time like this. I suspect they have a better way: to check some for dentists only sites where they can post what THEY think about their patients whether this is true or not. And we can't do anything about it!
Yah, I feel all the time that I am in pit and try to climb out; sometimes I get half-way and then ... next dentist brings me right to the bottom!
LTC, it does seem that your current dentist is just stretching the time. You definitely should not hit the teeth first on one side only besides only the back teeth as you said before. This should be adjusted!
I know all about being too nice. This is why I wasted so much time and money by being afraid to tell them smth "not nice". Now I started telling things straightforward, in the most polite way I can. If they drop me, the sooner, the better. Like with the last dentist -- I lost "only" $500, could have been worse.
This is what I meant, remember, when I said that maybe it was on my destiny to learn "how to bite". Maybe this was the God's reason for me to ruin my life with the teeth problem until I will get it! I have to learn how to protect myself and to "bite back". It's not easy in any way ( at least for me).
Tensing and monitoring don't show well the uneven contacts. I even had a special test of the bite forces with which the dentist in Florida "proved" that he did a good job. This was when in his temps I could not even get back to the hotel because of the excruciating pain in the teeth, could not even chew a banana and my TMJ seriously started! What happens is that the teeth immediately lead to the "balanced" contacts but this does not mean that when you bite in your real biting position these contacts are balanced!
I think these all are showing off techniques to charge more money.
I share your feelings of being afraid of it getting worse. Previously I thought few times that it couldn't go worse but thanks to dental work it did. After Monday's visit I wrote to my dentist telling him to do most of the dental work himself, will let you know if he'll reply. But I am very doubtful that I want to do everything with him. He never uses the bow articulator which I definitely use (he confirmed that) and there are other concerns too.
But just as you are, I am afraid to start looking for someone else. Meanwhile time is going by... season after season, year after year...
TL, I liked your [...I need to know if whatever is made makes me worse I can remove it and go back to being the way I am now - miserable but not suicidal.] -- that's exactly how I feel!! You just say so well all my thoughts and feelings!
I am not very concerned about the dentists checking our posts. If they are making money on our sufferings what do you think they expect us to feel about them??? ;). I don't think they will spend their time like this. I suspect they have a better way: to check some for dentists only sites where they can post what THEY think about their patients whether this is true or not. And we can't do anything about it!
luvtocamp
01-15-2009, 02:16 PM
TL- a maze is a good analogy too.
I also remember when I first came to this site, and read some posts I thought oh no this is worst than I thought and I was afraid to read posts, but like you , knowledge is power so I came back.
When my dentures are out its kinda like you feel, very off kilter, like things are askew.
I know its scarey to start over but then I keep telling myself, what are you doing, just getting worst again, and doing the same thing is not working. Yes the possibly is there we may get worst, but the possibly is there we may get better also, its 50/50 chance, but my dentist just can't seem to get me in a balance bite, I've just never had any good luck with him.
I take it no call yet hey, soon I hope. I see the new chiro tomorrow.
Stillhope- I agree just because the contacts line up doesn't mean thats where your bite is suppose to be. I almost believe its mostly the muscles of the face and neck, but then if the bite is off, the muscles fire away. I also agree tho that the muscles need to be as loose as possible to get the best bite ya know.
I hope your dentist agrees to do all your dental work, and keep hounding that one for at least a partial refund. he is a jerk so don't let him rest till you get some type of refund.
I also remember when I first came to this site, and read some posts I thought oh no this is worst than I thought and I was afraid to read posts, but like you , knowledge is power so I came back.
When my dentures are out its kinda like you feel, very off kilter, like things are askew.
I know its scarey to start over but then I keep telling myself, what are you doing, just getting worst again, and doing the same thing is not working. Yes the possibly is there we may get worst, but the possibly is there we may get better also, its 50/50 chance, but my dentist just can't seem to get me in a balance bite, I've just never had any good luck with him.
I take it no call yet hey, soon I hope. I see the new chiro tomorrow.
Stillhope- I agree just because the contacts line up doesn't mean thats where your bite is suppose to be. I almost believe its mostly the muscles of the face and neck, but then if the bite is off, the muscles fire away. I also agree tho that the muscles need to be as loose as possible to get the best bite ya know.
I hope your dentist agrees to do all your dental work, and keep hounding that one for at least a partial refund. he is a jerk so don't let him rest till you get some type of refund.
luvtocamp
01-16-2009, 01:07 PM
Went to the chiro consult- he seemed very nice, nice office, except the tables for adjusting were out in the open. Are they like that at your chiro's TL?
The assistant did Xray and all the other test, balance, ph, that computer scan sensor test thing , etc. I go back Mon for his assessment and results of the test.
I didn't have to pay for the xrays since the dentist referred me. The dentist is the chiro's dentist and vice versa.
It seemed to be a nice quiet atmosphere too, I hate the loud noise as some of them play music and that. There are three chiros there, but if I start with them I can request the same one.
whats it like at your chiro's office TL- one chiro, private rooms, did yours do xrays, and a computer scan??
Decisions, decisions.
Besides that same ole, it is bitterly cold here as I'm sure it is on the East coast too.
The assistant did Xray and all the other test, balance, ph, that computer scan sensor test thing , etc. I go back Mon for his assessment and results of the test.
I didn't have to pay for the xrays since the dentist referred me. The dentist is the chiro's dentist and vice versa.
It seemed to be a nice quiet atmosphere too, I hate the loud noise as some of them play music and that. There are three chiros there, but if I start with them I can request the same one.
whats it like at your chiro's office TL- one chiro, private rooms, did yours do xrays, and a computer scan??
Decisions, decisions.
Besides that same ole, it is bitterly cold here as I'm sure it is on the East coast too.
Thelma-Louise
01-16-2009, 08:07 PM
You mean his table that you lay on is out in the waiting room so others watch you get adjusted? All of the chiros I have been to had private practices and didn't share with other chiros or drs. All had waiting rooms and at least 2 treatment rooms where the tables are located so while one patient is waiting in one treatment room another patient is in the other room being adjusted. The NUCCA chiro had a suite of rooms - like 4 treatment rooms, and in addition to an xray room and a waiting room - a room with special recliners that had heat and massage controls on them which patients were instructed to use for 20mins after the adjustment. B/c of the nature of my spasms - even without them - I don't think I would be comfortable being adjusted in front of others - do all the patients just sit in the same room as where the table is while the dr adjusts them one after one? And there is more than one dr - so more than one table? Or are several drs working together and so they put a few tables in one room where all the drs and patients go? Either way I still am not comfortable with it - but that may be just me. It sounds like an assempbly line, no? And what about privacy and confidentiality in terms of discussing your condtion, symptoms and treatment?
My current chiro did not do xrays as I had my MRIs with me - but the chiros I went to did - and I brought those with me as well as I had asked for copies.
Do they accept Medicare? How much is his fee?
Oh, no call yet - I hope this isn't going to take weeks and weeks again - guess I should e-mail him and see if he at least sent them out and they are not sitting in the cubboard hidden behind other things.
Now I have that clogged feeling in my left ear - not sure if its becoming more clogged or actually unclogging after all this time - but it feels and sounds like fluid moving around, popping and cracking - every time I move my head - quite annoying.
Its horribly cold here - we haven't had a winter like this in some time - and every other day a couple more inches of snow - just enough that I have to get the shovel and broom out but not enough for the snow blower. Man - did you see that commuter plane that landed in the Hudson River and everyone survived - now that's a miracle - certainly worth giving up the miracle I keep praying for for myself, you know?
I know its not easy deciding what to do - are you thinking of giving that other dentist a try - since you went to the chiro he referred you to?
My current chiro did not do xrays as I had my MRIs with me - but the chiros I went to did - and I brought those with me as well as I had asked for copies.
Do they accept Medicare? How much is his fee?
Oh, no call yet - I hope this isn't going to take weeks and weeks again - guess I should e-mail him and see if he at least sent them out and they are not sitting in the cubboard hidden behind other things.
Now I have that clogged feeling in my left ear - not sure if its becoming more clogged or actually unclogging after all this time - but it feels and sounds like fluid moving around, popping and cracking - every time I move my head - quite annoying.
Its horribly cold here - we haven't had a winter like this in some time - and every other day a couple more inches of snow - just enough that I have to get the shovel and broom out but not enough for the snow blower. Man - did you see that commuter plane that landed in the Hudson River and everyone survived - now that's a miracle - certainly worth giving up the miracle I keep praying for for myself, you know?
I know its not easy deciding what to do - are you thinking of giving that other dentist a try - since you went to the chiro he referred you to?
luvtocamp
01-16-2009, 08:34 PM
Yes I watched the Hudson Miracle on tv, unreal, just unreal, that pilot sure did some quick thinking, he saved not only the people on the plane but what if he hit the bridge or a building. Its proof miracles do happen.
Yes they bill Medicare so they need to accept assignment -whatever medicare pays so I didnt' even ask . Hes been in practice for 10 years. He didn't charge me for the xrays.
Yep, three tables out in the open- you can watch them being adjusted from the lobby area as I did, but I remember the girl said there is a private room, so I would be one of those that would want the private room!! and the same guy working on me.
Although he talked to me, the girl did all the xray and tests. I don't know , I just don't know. i know the dentist would want me to go to him, and my osteo will probably get upset if I tell her I'm switching dentist. I'm not sure what to do at this point.I may make an appoint. with that one perio just to go
over my ICAt to see if he can see the problem. He does implants and knows how to read the ICAt and that and if maybe this doesn't have anything to do with the aveloplasty i had.
Hey you might ought to email your dentist and check to see if they have been sent out , or heaven forbid if they are sitting in his office yet- gee I sure hope thats not the case, I hope they are at least in Florida!!
I know the feeling of the ear, I have it in my R. tho, like its very congested? and then it crackles, and that, the doctor in detroit called it capuslitis, inflammation of the capsule area, inflammed I guess it means.
This weather is sure the pits hey. Either freezing or snowing. My heater is not working right in my car now, the gauge is not moving, and I need to turn it on high just to feel heated.
Is your body any better? Hey did you get your D levels checked yet?
Yes they bill Medicare so they need to accept assignment -whatever medicare pays so I didnt' even ask . Hes been in practice for 10 years. He didn't charge me for the xrays.
Yep, three tables out in the open- you can watch them being adjusted from the lobby area as I did, but I remember the girl said there is a private room, so I would be one of those that would want the private room!! and the same guy working on me.
Although he talked to me, the girl did all the xray and tests. I don't know , I just don't know. i know the dentist would want me to go to him, and my osteo will probably get upset if I tell her I'm switching dentist. I'm not sure what to do at this point.I may make an appoint. with that one perio just to go
over my ICAt to see if he can see the problem. He does implants and knows how to read the ICAt and that and if maybe this doesn't have anything to do with the aveloplasty i had.
Hey you might ought to email your dentist and check to see if they have been sent out , or heaven forbid if they are sitting in his office yet- gee I sure hope thats not the case, I hope they are at least in Florida!!
I know the feeling of the ear, I have it in my R. tho, like its very congested? and then it crackles, and that, the doctor in detroit called it capuslitis, inflammation of the capsule area, inflammed I guess it means.
This weather is sure the pits hey. Either freezing or snowing. My heater is not working right in my car now, the gauge is not moving, and I need to turn it on high just to feel heated.
Is your body any better? Hey did you get your D levels checked yet?
Thelma-Louise
01-16-2009, 09:25 PM
Gee - I haven't been to my PCP since last winter - I hate going to him now b/c other than prescribing meds - he tends to make me feel like I am wasting my time with dentists and chiros - yet his suggestion is to see a neurosurgeon - which didn't help and i have seen 2 of those so far. But I watched Oprah's Best Life series this week and Dr Oz said women in meno need at least 1200 mg of Vit D with Calcium and Mag - so I started taking my vits again - so far so good - at least I have been able to swallow them again and have not started gagging just at the thought of trying to swallow them. Even watching all of that though I doubt I will ever do an HRT or osteo treatment - its not worth the risk in my opinion - I would rather try and eat healthier (eat what? I am so bored with my limited menu lately) and take natural supplements and vits, you know? The body pain is still there but I am able to move around and walk again - for a few weeks there it had gotten so terrible again.
Hey did you ever try one of those whirlpool mats you stick in your tub - a motor sits on the outside of your tub and blows air thru a tube into the mat you lay on the bottom of the tub in your bath and this produces a "whirlpool" like a jacuzzi - I have seen a few [removed] on the internet for like $10 and was thinking of trying it for my body pain.
Well if they give you the option of a private room definitely insist on that - and the same dr - I am not comfortable with different drs working on one person from week to week - how do they then get a sense of what your problem is, if you are holding the adjustments and your progress? I guess this is their idea of keeping overhead down and always having a dr available if you need them - plus they get to take vacations w/o leaving their patients with no treatment for a couple weeks.
I really never told one chiro I was stopping and going to another - at my last appt I just said - I will call when I want to make another appt. My first chiro eventually called after 2-3 mos went by I and then told him my current dentist wanted me to see "his" chiro - and well that's life - I try not to burn any bridges, just in case, you know, but I have no qualms about stopping something if its not helping or making any further progress. But you may want to discuss your feeling about this chiro with the new dentist and just see if there is someone else he could refer you to with a private practice - my current dentist first gave me some other guy and after calling 3 times and leaving msgs I told my dentist it didn't seem like that guy wanted my business since he never called me back - and he said no problem - I have another guy just as good if not better - and he is now the chiro I am going to.
Hmmm - maybe I should try a decongestant or antihistamine for the ear - I tend to stay away from them only b/c I am always taking the tylenol or baclofen - I am a bit worried of interactions with all these meds -but it started last week - eased up for a few days and is now back again - unless its from a cold - I was coughing and sneezing a bit last week - hard to know if its the tmj related or not.
It may be your thermostat on your car heater or climate control sensor - do you have a repair station you can go to?
[Please do not mention websites...see the edit above. Thanks - Well-come Moderator.]
Hey did you ever try one of those whirlpool mats you stick in your tub - a motor sits on the outside of your tub and blows air thru a tube into the mat you lay on the bottom of the tub in your bath and this produces a "whirlpool" like a jacuzzi - I have seen a few [removed] on the internet for like $10 and was thinking of trying it for my body pain.
Well if they give you the option of a private room definitely insist on that - and the same dr - I am not comfortable with different drs working on one person from week to week - how do they then get a sense of what your problem is, if you are holding the adjustments and your progress? I guess this is their idea of keeping overhead down and always having a dr available if you need them - plus they get to take vacations w/o leaving their patients with no treatment for a couple weeks.
I really never told one chiro I was stopping and going to another - at my last appt I just said - I will call when I want to make another appt. My first chiro eventually called after 2-3 mos went by I and then told him my current dentist wanted me to see "his" chiro - and well that's life - I try not to burn any bridges, just in case, you know, but I have no qualms about stopping something if its not helping or making any further progress. But you may want to discuss your feeling about this chiro with the new dentist and just see if there is someone else he could refer you to with a private practice - my current dentist first gave me some other guy and after calling 3 times and leaving msgs I told my dentist it didn't seem like that guy wanted my business since he never called me back - and he said no problem - I have another guy just as good if not better - and he is now the chiro I am going to.
Hmmm - maybe I should try a decongestant or antihistamine for the ear - I tend to stay away from them only b/c I am always taking the tylenol or baclofen - I am a bit worried of interactions with all these meds -but it started last week - eased up for a few days and is now back again - unless its from a cold - I was coughing and sneezing a bit last week - hard to know if its the tmj related or not.
It may be your thermostat on your car heater or climate control sensor - do you have a repair station you can go to?
[Please do not mention websites...see the edit above. Thanks - Well-come Moderator.]
StillHope
01-16-2009, 11:18 PM
It's so nice that I can read your posts. LTC, it's tough for you to make decisions. Maybe take it slow and leave all the options open.
I am at the same state now.
In fact, like you, I went today to a chiro whom I found through NUCCA but I think he is not. He talks a lot and gave me a lot of info. He looked at the x-rays of the head from a year ago when I was in a lot of troubles with my neck, clicking, next to fainting state. He pointed out that my C2 is very off. Yes, it's off like a cm on the x-ray. He said he could make new x-rays but he doesn't actually need them to adjust since he knows from the exam that I have twists in the neck and lower back. If he'd take the x-rays he'd take 14 shots. I was kind of afraid of this tho he said that his machine will be 1/3 of the hospital dosage.
Anyway, I told him that I will wait for the splint and will call him after that. I want to know what I'll still have wrong if I'll manage to relax my jaw.
Basically I feel totally lost, totally abandoned-- my dentist who charged me for two ceramic crowns and did not even make the two temps for the teeth that he reprepared, never replied to my email. No news from the last "new" dentist whom I paid $500, no call from a KOIS dentist whom I left a phone message... So I feel that my teeth are just going downhill every day, besides they hurt from the cold air when I go out, and I don't know what to do... Even worse I have no energy these days to even think of what to do... Just feel like crawling under the blanket and staying there all day. Maybe I should really do so??
TL, me too I had the liquid sounds in my ear/tmj but all the dentists whom I told this looked like they never heard about it. The tmj surgeon said that I could have had an edema behind the condyle since it happened after my jaw was pushed to the back by a dentist. I was sure it was the inflammation and it hurt a lot. I couldn't take any advil since I am allergic to it.
You say, it's in your ear, not in tmj?
Yes, it's time for your dentist to get back to you!! I've been wondering all the time how your splint will work.
I have not tried that whirlpool mat but I think that anything that helps us feel better if we can afford it, is good! I am thinking to take a massage again, I have not had them for a very long time.
It's so cold in the car, I don't even rely on its heating. I try to put on as many layers as I can wear. Since my tmj I am constantly freezing no matter what the temperature is. I think it's from pain and stress.
Are you, guys, freezing too?
Yes, it's so amazing about the Hudson miracle! So we can and should still believe in miracles for us, right?! Aren't we even asking less -- just to have a normal bite and no pain.
I am at the same state now.
In fact, like you, I went today to a chiro whom I found through NUCCA but I think he is not. He talks a lot and gave me a lot of info. He looked at the x-rays of the head from a year ago when I was in a lot of troubles with my neck, clicking, next to fainting state. He pointed out that my C2 is very off. Yes, it's off like a cm on the x-ray. He said he could make new x-rays but he doesn't actually need them to adjust since he knows from the exam that I have twists in the neck and lower back. If he'd take the x-rays he'd take 14 shots. I was kind of afraid of this tho he said that his machine will be 1/3 of the hospital dosage.
Anyway, I told him that I will wait for the splint and will call him after that. I want to know what I'll still have wrong if I'll manage to relax my jaw.
Basically I feel totally lost, totally abandoned-- my dentist who charged me for two ceramic crowns and did not even make the two temps for the teeth that he reprepared, never replied to my email. No news from the last "new" dentist whom I paid $500, no call from a KOIS dentist whom I left a phone message... So I feel that my teeth are just going downhill every day, besides they hurt from the cold air when I go out, and I don't know what to do... Even worse I have no energy these days to even think of what to do... Just feel like crawling under the blanket and staying there all day. Maybe I should really do so??
TL, me too I had the liquid sounds in my ear/tmj but all the dentists whom I told this looked like they never heard about it. The tmj surgeon said that I could have had an edema behind the condyle since it happened after my jaw was pushed to the back by a dentist. I was sure it was the inflammation and it hurt a lot. I couldn't take any advil since I am allergic to it.
You say, it's in your ear, not in tmj?
Yes, it's time for your dentist to get back to you!! I've been wondering all the time how your splint will work.
I have not tried that whirlpool mat but I think that anything that helps us feel better if we can afford it, is good! I am thinking to take a massage again, I have not had them for a very long time.
It's so cold in the car, I don't even rely on its heating. I try to put on as many layers as I can wear. Since my tmj I am constantly freezing no matter what the temperature is. I think it's from pain and stress.
Are you, guys, freezing too?
Yes, it's so amazing about the Hudson miracle! So we can and should still believe in miracles for us, right?! Aren't we even asking less -- just to have a normal bite and no pain.
luvtocamp
01-17-2009, 10:02 AM
TL- glad you started taking your calcium and vit D and magesium. I know most doctors don't really believe the effect tmj can have on someone. Mine doesn't question me, and he gives me the valium so I need to go in. Hes very understanding
About the hrt and osteo treatment, I didn't do the hrt, I felt it was a normal body process and why prolong memopause, and I never suffered from hot flashes or that. Bone therapy meds, no way, I'll take the vits instead. Theres no reason for me to even have another dextra scan as I'm not going on meds anyway, and I've been reading those are not always that accurate. I have also read that by the age of 30 most women will have osteopenia. I for some reason believe its the drug companies that push this the same way they push the cholesterol lowering drugs. All these drugs are chemicals and have side effects.
Your right I should not burn bridges with the osteo, maybe just try the chiro a couple times but not telll the osteo. I think at this point I'm going to make an appoint with the periodontist and have him check out that aveloplasty, my gum still hurts where it was done- wish I never had that done, but that is water under the bridge.
How to decipher if its in the ear or tmj space, I know mine in the tmj space. You might try a decongestant and see. I think probably the joint space.
You right about the chiro's, they can take vacations and have others cover for them, I want one person working on me, I'm very adamant about that. Even some dental office have 2 or 3 dentist in their office and you get a different one- wouldn't like that.
Yes I've seen those things for the bathtub, but I never take a bath!! but if you do it might work for your muscles. For $10 it may be worth giving it a try.
Yes proably the sensor on my car, we have a place we take our vehicles, maybe next week I'l get it in, at least its still heating alittle.
Stillhope- Yes I'm cold alot, probably from inactivity and smoking more.
Glad you didn't make a decision with that chiro, I think all upper cervical chiros need to do a head and neck xray before adjusting, a persons neck changes in a years time so going by your year old xray doesn't seem right. but then again my osteo didn't need xrays, she can feel with her hands. I did have lots of xrays done yesterday and figued it wouldn't hurt to see where I'm at, after over a year of osteo treatments you'd think I'd be straight as a arrow.
So you regular dentist hasn't called back yet, so you don't know when you are to go back in and get the temp crowns on? I would call that one dentist during business hours and demand to talk to him and hound him, tell him you want at least $250 back as he did not a thing. That makes me so mad.
Well now its snowing like crazy out, this weather never ends . Yep sometimes, actually alot, I feel like crawling into bed and just staying there!!
About food, I don't think I'll ever eat like before, raw califlower, and salads, I can see the rest of my life just sticking to softer foods, and fork eating. No more raw carrots or apples. Even if I were to get pain free, I think the fear may stil be there mentally and be afraid to eat like I use to. I really miss my apples and raw califlower.
About the hrt and osteo treatment, I didn't do the hrt, I felt it was a normal body process and why prolong memopause, and I never suffered from hot flashes or that. Bone therapy meds, no way, I'll take the vits instead. Theres no reason for me to even have another dextra scan as I'm not going on meds anyway, and I've been reading those are not always that accurate. I have also read that by the age of 30 most women will have osteopenia. I for some reason believe its the drug companies that push this the same way they push the cholesterol lowering drugs. All these drugs are chemicals and have side effects.
Your right I should not burn bridges with the osteo, maybe just try the chiro a couple times but not telll the osteo. I think at this point I'm going to make an appoint with the periodontist and have him check out that aveloplasty, my gum still hurts where it was done- wish I never had that done, but that is water under the bridge.
How to decipher if its in the ear or tmj space, I know mine in the tmj space. You might try a decongestant and see. I think probably the joint space.
You right about the chiro's, they can take vacations and have others cover for them, I want one person working on me, I'm very adamant about that. Even some dental office have 2 or 3 dentist in their office and you get a different one- wouldn't like that.
Yes I've seen those things for the bathtub, but I never take a bath!! but if you do it might work for your muscles. For $10 it may be worth giving it a try.
Yes proably the sensor on my car, we have a place we take our vehicles, maybe next week I'l get it in, at least its still heating alittle.
Stillhope- Yes I'm cold alot, probably from inactivity and smoking more.
Glad you didn't make a decision with that chiro, I think all upper cervical chiros need to do a head and neck xray before adjusting, a persons neck changes in a years time so going by your year old xray doesn't seem right. but then again my osteo didn't need xrays, she can feel with her hands. I did have lots of xrays done yesterday and figued it wouldn't hurt to see where I'm at, after over a year of osteo treatments you'd think I'd be straight as a arrow.
So you regular dentist hasn't called back yet, so you don't know when you are to go back in and get the temp crowns on? I would call that one dentist during business hours and demand to talk to him and hound him, tell him you want at least $250 back as he did not a thing. That makes me so mad.
Well now its snowing like crazy out, this weather never ends . Yep sometimes, actually alot, I feel like crawling into bed and just staying there!!
About food, I don't think I'll ever eat like before, raw califlower, and salads, I can see the rest of my life just sticking to softer foods, and fork eating. No more raw carrots or apples. Even if I were to get pain free, I think the fear may stil be there mentally and be afraid to eat like I use to. I really miss my apples and raw califlower.
StillHope
01-17-2009, 01:37 PM
LTC, I like your attitudes about menopause; me too I feel that it's natural so why do we need drugs?! I read that Ca leaches from the bones mostly from the lack of exercise not from the lack of Ca in food and so on. Unfortunately, none of us seem to be able to exercise which I miss so much. I feel that I am just "not myself" w/o it. Can't even go for a walk due to cold air.
I did started taking liquid Ca and Mg and it might indeed make me more calm as I feel kind of less nervous lately; on the other hand I feel too low on energy which is not good. How to balance???
When are you going to see the new dentist? Did he say what he will do after your chiro visit?
I sent another fax to that ... who got $500 asking him to return $250 for the consult which I have not requested. I will also ask the Pre-paid Legal Services (which I am a member of for $10/mo) to write him a letter. Sometimes this scares them enough to return some money. I rarely do it since it has to be a clear case like nothing was done (as it was now) and since it takes so much of my effort even to write a few official pages. We'll see.
I gave a chiro more thought and I started looking for myofascial and deep tissue massages around. It was very useful to look at the skeletons in the chiro's office to see that all bones and vertebra are moved and aligned by tiny deep lying muscles. Why not to make them relax and stop pulling to one side first of all??! It's more pleasant too to have a massage than that chiro's click.
I did started taking liquid Ca and Mg and it might indeed make me more calm as I feel kind of less nervous lately; on the other hand I feel too low on energy which is not good. How to balance???
When are you going to see the new dentist? Did he say what he will do after your chiro visit?
I sent another fax to that ... who got $500 asking him to return $250 for the consult which I have not requested. I will also ask the Pre-paid Legal Services (which I am a member of for $10/mo) to write him a letter. Sometimes this scares them enough to return some money. I rarely do it since it has to be a clear case like nothing was done (as it was now) and since it takes so much of my effort even to write a few official pages. We'll see.
I gave a chiro more thought and I started looking for myofascial and deep tissue massages around. It was very useful to look at the skeletons in the chiro's office to see that all bones and vertebra are moved and aligned by tiny deep lying muscles. Why not to make them relax and stop pulling to one side first of all??! It's more pleasant too to have a massage than that chiro's click.
luvtocamp
01-17-2009, 02:01 PM
Stillhope- That is what I ponder a lot, chiros move bones and PT works the muscles. I sometimes feel its the muscles that pull the bones out of place and not the bone that tightens the muscles.
that is one reason I move believe in the way the osteo manipulates. In my opinion if you have tight muscles they need to be relaxed before an adjustment, with warm moist heat or gentle massage.
I also know if your muscles are really tight, they should not be passively stretched, they should be lightly massaged.
TL- we'd like your opinion on this please.
the new dentist would reline my old dentures so I can wear them till he figures out where my bite is, and then of course make me a new set once my muscles relax.
When I see the chiro for my eval on my test results, I'm going to ask him how he plans to relax my muscles???
If you have something making your muscles tight, I don' know how adjusting your spine will help or have any lasting effect, as something is pulling your spine out of alignment ya know..
The other problem tho is the chiro is covered under Medicare whereas massages aren't which is why I haven't had any, I'd like too, but the funds are drying up here.
Hey whenever you feel the least bit good, fill the form out and then have them submit it. I know its going to be a battle getting my money back for these dentures but no matter what I will.
I hear you walking is good for the bones but like you I'm not up to exercising. Our bodies are wasting from this.
that is one reason I move believe in the way the osteo manipulates. In my opinion if you have tight muscles they need to be relaxed before an adjustment, with warm moist heat or gentle massage.
I also know if your muscles are really tight, they should not be passively stretched, they should be lightly massaged.
TL- we'd like your opinion on this please.
the new dentist would reline my old dentures so I can wear them till he figures out where my bite is, and then of course make me a new set once my muscles relax.
When I see the chiro for my eval on my test results, I'm going to ask him how he plans to relax my muscles???
If you have something making your muscles tight, I don' know how adjusting your spine will help or have any lasting effect, as something is pulling your spine out of alignment ya know..
The other problem tho is the chiro is covered under Medicare whereas massages aren't which is why I haven't had any, I'd like too, but the funds are drying up here.
Hey whenever you feel the least bit good, fill the form out and then have them submit it. I know its going to be a battle getting my money back for these dentures but no matter what I will.
I hear you walking is good for the bones but like you I'm not up to exercising. Our bodies are wasting from this.
StillHope
01-17-2009, 05:36 PM
LTC, your feeling about the muscles being "the first" is correct. Even the chiro confirmed this yesterday when I asked him. The muscles pull the bones out of alignment, bones on their own "do nothing"; if the muscles relax, the bones "fall back in place".
Yes, I like the osteos for this reason. I tried one, he is just a bit too far and too expensive. Nevertheless I was thinking to give him a call if I won't get out on my own soon. I went to a chiro basically for the diagnostic and it was good. Surely a massage costs a lot but I hope to use one or two just as a start for my own body work. Just feel too stuck these days to even figure out what I should be doing for myself. Need some external energy or something...
Yes, I like the osteos for this reason. I tried one, he is just a bit too far and too expensive. Nevertheless I was thinking to give him a call if I won't get out on my own soon. I went to a chiro basically for the diagnostic and it was good. Surely a massage costs a lot but I hope to use one or two just as a start for my own body work. Just feel too stuck these days to even figure out what I should be doing for myself. Need some external energy or something...
luvtocamp
01-17-2009, 06:08 PM
Stillhope- what is the liquid Ca and Mg you take? I'm on the pills.
So you agree about the muscles then. Yes the osteopath is expensive but Medicare covers it so that is good. she doesn't really mess with the muscles, but moves my body parts to straighten me out and will press gently on my spine. Also she pushes on my knots in my neck. I feel so comfortable with her, I'm not sure I can leave her till I'm fixed, but unfortunately she works with the dentist I see now.
I read about massages, and there is one that just is gentle and increases the circulation and unwinds the fascia bands, not sure the name of it. I would love to be able to afford it.
As far as PT , the main thing they did was use the ultrasound on my tight neck and that helped, of course everything is a short term effect till our bites get corrected.
I really need to quit the smoking which I took back up a couple years ago from the stress of this, and now I smoke so much again.
I have little energy too, the winter sure doesn't help. At least in the summer I use to go to the store more, but now its mainly to appointments, since its either too cold or the roads are bad.
Have you had any boodwork done , like your Vit D level and B12 level? My family doctor is really into watching those close with me.
So you agree about the muscles then. Yes the osteopath is expensive but Medicare covers it so that is good. she doesn't really mess with the muscles, but moves my body parts to straighten me out and will press gently on my spine. Also she pushes on my knots in my neck. I feel so comfortable with her, I'm not sure I can leave her till I'm fixed, but unfortunately she works with the dentist I see now.
I read about massages, and there is one that just is gentle and increases the circulation and unwinds the fascia bands, not sure the name of it. I would love to be able to afford it.
As far as PT , the main thing they did was use the ultrasound on my tight neck and that helped, of course everything is a short term effect till our bites get corrected.
I really need to quit the smoking which I took back up a couple years ago from the stress of this, and now I smoke so much again.
I have little energy too, the winter sure doesn't help. At least in the summer I use to go to the store more, but now its mainly to appointments, since its either too cold or the roads are bad.
Have you had any boodwork done , like your Vit D level and B12 level? My family doctor is really into watching those close with me.
StillHope
01-17-2009, 06:31 PM
I think the massage you mention is myo-fascial. I never had one but I want to try it out.
This is what my osteo adressed -- the muscle fascia, i.e. the "bag" in which the muscles are placed, it's like their "cover".
Continue going to your osteo and tell her (ONLY if she will ask!) that your dentist didn't do any improvements and you are not seeing him often now, or smth. Basically WHY should you be telling her anything about him at all?! Just go to the new one and start from there!
Ultrasound in the neck improves the circulation, so does any muscle cream or a heat pad, or a massage, or what not (like mild exercising too).
I am sure that when you will find enough strength and commitment to quit smoking this will be a big help for you! For now it might be serving some inner purpose, like calming, or distraction or whatever, and once you, your mind or your body will find a substitute for it you will just drop smoking easily b/c you understand that it is bad for you.
I ordered Liquid Ca&Mg from Puritan's Pride where I order all my vits to get them all delivered. I can't swallow the usual size Ca tablets as they are too big.
You are right about testing my blood, thanks for reminding this! I really should do it. I got a prescription for it several months ago but then got better (my dental situation was more optimistic) and I decided to postpone hoping that once I'll get "my bite soon" I will start exercising and resume my normal life... It didn't happen this way, and I am at the very bottom again.
This is what my osteo adressed -- the muscle fascia, i.e. the "bag" in which the muscles are placed, it's like their "cover".
Continue going to your osteo and tell her (ONLY if she will ask!) that your dentist didn't do any improvements and you are not seeing him often now, or smth. Basically WHY should you be telling her anything about him at all?! Just go to the new one and start from there!
Ultrasound in the neck improves the circulation, so does any muscle cream or a heat pad, or a massage, or what not (like mild exercising too).
I am sure that when you will find enough strength and commitment to quit smoking this will be a big help for you! For now it might be serving some inner purpose, like calming, or distraction or whatever, and once you, your mind or your body will find a substitute for it you will just drop smoking easily b/c you understand that it is bad for you.
I ordered Liquid Ca&Mg from Puritan's Pride where I order all my vits to get them all delivered. I can't swallow the usual size Ca tablets as they are too big.
You are right about testing my blood, thanks for reminding this! I really should do it. I got a prescription for it several months ago but then got better (my dental situation was more optimistic) and I decided to postpone hoping that once I'll get "my bite soon" I will start exercising and resume my normal life... It didn't happen this way, and I am at the very bottom again.
Thelma-Louise
01-17-2009, 09:36 PM
Hey guys - you were both busy today I see.
Hmmm - muscles or bones - which comes first. Muscles probably pushed the bones as you both seemed to agree on but I doubt bones will move back on their own - even if the muscles are made to relax. And especially if your bones have been left out of alingment for any length of time. Although the muscles may have pushed the bones and jaw out of alignment, in my opnion its this structural mis-alignment that then perpetuates the muscle tightness and subsequent pain - otherwise muscle relaxers would fix us or give us releif for brief periods during the day and for me they have no affect. Also, the tens unit - often used to relax muscles would then be able to do so - but - again, in my opinion b/c of the structural misalignment - it also fails as the muscles can not relax due to the underlying subluxation and therefore can not work properly if the bones are not where they belong. Although the bite may come into play in terms of affecting our muscles - lots of people don't even have teeth and have no problem - muscular or structural. Remember though, for us - the dental prosthetics we wore - be it crowns, dentures, or bridges - may have had a hand in forcing our structures off kilter as well - and the muscles went along for the ride as they were not given much choice in the matter. So although the muscles and dental prosthetics may have started this - if they did indeed casue structural misalignment - I think then to reverse this that first needs to be addressed and then the muscles will be able to relax on their own - and then a stable and proper bite needs to ensure it stays that way. I guess I keep thinking of the PT and cranial sacral therapy I underwent - one included massages, ultra sound, the tens unit and warm compresses and the other was a soft touch pressure point therapy aimed at adjusting the facia - and both made me pretty relaxed - for a few hrs only - and my bones didn't budge a bit during that time. That's what made me realize I needed the "right" chiro to straighten out my body. I bet now those therapies would work even better for me but I am short on funds at this point and even a copay or partial fee - should Medicare cover them - would break the bank .
Stillhope - my teeth hurt with every turn too - they have been left exposed now for almost 2 yrs - but i find using a senstive tooth paste helps - like senssodyne or any other brand - but I leave it there and just let it dissolve on its own - and it seems to help quite a bit.
My ear is definitely having some issues - I am getting some sharp pains in it - deep down - and every once in a while it "opens" up and everything is loud and then it closes again and I feel "stuffy" plus I have a slight rining going on again - I think its b/c my left side just feels like it can not rest no matter what I do with it - whereas the right side does manage to find one tiny spot where 2 teeth slightly touch so the muscles can "rest" a bit - the left side just feels so strained - like my upper jaw feels like there is no way it can go as low as it needs to go to find a tooth to rest on. I may go buy one of those night guards you boil and see if I can do something with it that may help give that side something to rest on.
I was actually a busy little thing the past few days working on cleaning the apt downstairs so I can rent it again this spring - but I find moving around - now that the body pain is back to something I can tolerate more - helps keep my mind off this mess I am in - and I am warmer as a result - even had to lower the heat a bit today. But to go outside - well its like every muscle just tightens up instantly - especialy my neck and shoulders - and then dressing up like an eskimo seems to only add to it - the wieght of the clothes just seems too heavy to carry.
Hmmm - muscles or bones - which comes first. Muscles probably pushed the bones as you both seemed to agree on but I doubt bones will move back on their own - even if the muscles are made to relax. And especially if your bones have been left out of alingment for any length of time. Although the muscles may have pushed the bones and jaw out of alignment, in my opnion its this structural mis-alignment that then perpetuates the muscle tightness and subsequent pain - otherwise muscle relaxers would fix us or give us releif for brief periods during the day and for me they have no affect. Also, the tens unit - often used to relax muscles would then be able to do so - but - again, in my opinion b/c of the structural misalignment - it also fails as the muscles can not relax due to the underlying subluxation and therefore can not work properly if the bones are not where they belong. Although the bite may come into play in terms of affecting our muscles - lots of people don't even have teeth and have no problem - muscular or structural. Remember though, for us - the dental prosthetics we wore - be it crowns, dentures, or bridges - may have had a hand in forcing our structures off kilter as well - and the muscles went along for the ride as they were not given much choice in the matter. So although the muscles and dental prosthetics may have started this - if they did indeed casue structural misalignment - I think then to reverse this that first needs to be addressed and then the muscles will be able to relax on their own - and then a stable and proper bite needs to ensure it stays that way. I guess I keep thinking of the PT and cranial sacral therapy I underwent - one included massages, ultra sound, the tens unit and warm compresses and the other was a soft touch pressure point therapy aimed at adjusting the facia - and both made me pretty relaxed - for a few hrs only - and my bones didn't budge a bit during that time. That's what made me realize I needed the "right" chiro to straighten out my body. I bet now those therapies would work even better for me but I am short on funds at this point and even a copay or partial fee - should Medicare cover them - would break the bank .
Stillhope - my teeth hurt with every turn too - they have been left exposed now for almost 2 yrs - but i find using a senstive tooth paste helps - like senssodyne or any other brand - but I leave it there and just let it dissolve on its own - and it seems to help quite a bit.
My ear is definitely having some issues - I am getting some sharp pains in it - deep down - and every once in a while it "opens" up and everything is loud and then it closes again and I feel "stuffy" plus I have a slight rining going on again - I think its b/c my left side just feels like it can not rest no matter what I do with it - whereas the right side does manage to find one tiny spot where 2 teeth slightly touch so the muscles can "rest" a bit - the left side just feels so strained - like my upper jaw feels like there is no way it can go as low as it needs to go to find a tooth to rest on. I may go buy one of those night guards you boil and see if I can do something with it that may help give that side something to rest on.
I was actually a busy little thing the past few days working on cleaning the apt downstairs so I can rent it again this spring - but I find moving around - now that the body pain is back to something I can tolerate more - helps keep my mind off this mess I am in - and I am warmer as a result - even had to lower the heat a bit today. But to go outside - well its like every muscle just tightens up instantly - especialy my neck and shoulders - and then dressing up like an eskimo seems to only add to it - the wieght of the clothes just seems too heavy to carry.
luvtocamp
01-18-2009, 08:56 AM
TL- what you say about muscles and bones makes sense, we need a chiro to realax our muscles first and then do the adjustments is what I would think makes the most sense. I do agree its structural, bone alignment, but trying to align the bones when our muscles are tight I can't see the sense to that. Maybe they should gently massage you first and then adjust. But atlas, no chiro or osteo takes that amount of time on a visit. I am still afraid of the chiro after that one I went to.
Also about the sensors attached to the computer and they go up and down your spine, do you think they really mean anything, I mean is it because your muscles are tight, mine were red on my right side, the tight side, or do you think this is some sort of gimmack??
Glad you getting your apartment ready to rent and you feel well enough , its good to be able to get your mind off this stuff. I think I'm cold alot too from not moving.
About the ear, I have the same thing on the right side and since the new dentures, its starting on the left ear area. When I turn the vacumn on now the left year will have a flapping in it like a bug or something. I know its from lack of support on that side since the back molar is not there, I could tell right away. So getting a mouthguard might help. I wish your splints would get in. No mail on Mon tho. Did you email your dentist to find out if they have been sent in?
Stillhope- thanks for the info about Puritan Pride, look like they have good stuff and prices.
I know I smoke to fill a void and distract me. when I did quit before I was feeling good so I was able to keep myself occupied and active and didnt' have this stress.
Well when I check the board here lately so much talk about surgical proceedures that its scarey. I was always told never to have surgery done but I guess some people don't have a choice? I read if the disc is gone, that a new one forms with scar tissue, and have read that many people don't have discs but have no pain.
Anyone have appoints this week? I know TL you have the chiro on tues, is your SIL going to go and see him?
I got the eval from the chiro on Mon- going over my xrays and that.
Wed morning I have the osteo and in the afternoon the dentist- I personally don't know what he can do to the teeth since he has the bite too far forward and with the lack of the molar on the back left.
Stillhope- hope you hear from the dentist so he can put your temp. crowns on- that is the plan right?
Just another cold day here.
PS: 30 mins later. I don't know ladies, the more I think about it the more I probably won't get chiro treatment. The thought of it makes me too nervous. I need to go back Mon. because I left my angel cross necklace down there that I took off for the xrays.
So I'm not sure this new dentist will work either if I don't use his chiro. I know they both gave me free consults but that doesn't make me obligated in my mind.
TL- I'm not saying anything bad about chiros, but just after that bad one, I don't think I can bring myself to do it.
Also about the sensors attached to the computer and they go up and down your spine, do you think they really mean anything, I mean is it because your muscles are tight, mine were red on my right side, the tight side, or do you think this is some sort of gimmack??
Glad you getting your apartment ready to rent and you feel well enough , its good to be able to get your mind off this stuff. I think I'm cold alot too from not moving.
About the ear, I have the same thing on the right side and since the new dentures, its starting on the left ear area. When I turn the vacumn on now the left year will have a flapping in it like a bug or something. I know its from lack of support on that side since the back molar is not there, I could tell right away. So getting a mouthguard might help. I wish your splints would get in. No mail on Mon tho. Did you email your dentist to find out if they have been sent in?
Stillhope- thanks for the info about Puritan Pride, look like they have good stuff and prices.
I know I smoke to fill a void and distract me. when I did quit before I was feeling good so I was able to keep myself occupied and active and didnt' have this stress.
Well when I check the board here lately so much talk about surgical proceedures that its scarey. I was always told never to have surgery done but I guess some people don't have a choice? I read if the disc is gone, that a new one forms with scar tissue, and have read that many people don't have discs but have no pain.
Anyone have appoints this week? I know TL you have the chiro on tues, is your SIL going to go and see him?
I got the eval from the chiro on Mon- going over my xrays and that.
Wed morning I have the osteo and in the afternoon the dentist- I personally don't know what he can do to the teeth since he has the bite too far forward and with the lack of the molar on the back left.
Stillhope- hope you hear from the dentist so he can put your temp. crowns on- that is the plan right?
Just another cold day here.
PS: 30 mins later. I don't know ladies, the more I think about it the more I probably won't get chiro treatment. The thought of it makes me too nervous. I need to go back Mon. because I left my angel cross necklace down there that I took off for the xrays.
So I'm not sure this new dentist will work either if I don't use his chiro. I know they both gave me free consults but that doesn't make me obligated in my mind.
TL- I'm not saying anything bad about chiros, but just after that bad one, I don't think I can bring myself to do it.
Thelma-Louise
01-18-2009, 12:35 PM
Oh - I realize that - I wouldn't go to one at first b/c of the horror stories I have heard from friends and to be honest I have often wondered if they do not make things worse or just push whatever is wrong from one place to another. so far I have been lucky as to not have a bad experience with them - its kind of how I feel about dentists though in general - I just don't trust their judgement and they seem to have made my problem worse.
You need to do what makes sense to you and what you feel is right for your body and problem - not easy to always know exactly what that is but you have to rely on your inner self or gut feeling sometimes. If you are having hesitations about seeing this guy - then those feelings are there for a reason - those red flags we often ignore usually mean something. If I had had a bad experience at some point I would feel the same way. Also there are so many quacks out there in all health related fields - its scary.
I think the sensors attached to the computer is registering muscle response - to a trained therapist or dr they can feel the response - muscles respond to a light touch or palpitation - the more stressed they are the stronger the response - so I think the sensors register the response as the hand held wand glides over their outer surface. Doesn't point out what the problem is - only that the muscles are strained or tight as a result. In a way though it puts down or records on paper what we may be experiencing more so than a dr simply writing down "muscle tightness" in his office visit notes. The one I took was called a surface EMG - but I had the needle EMG done too - which I found most painful btw - and pretty much got the same results - overreactive muscle respons - but the needle EMG is used more to detect "lack" of response associated with many neuromuscular conditions, so an over response is basically ignored and deemed insignificant.
Well - here's hoping this is a good week for us all - we got more snow this morning so I am off to go clear the driveway again.
You need to do what makes sense to you and what you feel is right for your body and problem - not easy to always know exactly what that is but you have to rely on your inner self or gut feeling sometimes. If you are having hesitations about seeing this guy - then those feelings are there for a reason - those red flags we often ignore usually mean something. If I had had a bad experience at some point I would feel the same way. Also there are so many quacks out there in all health related fields - its scary.
I think the sensors attached to the computer is registering muscle response - to a trained therapist or dr they can feel the response - muscles respond to a light touch or palpitation - the more stressed they are the stronger the response - so I think the sensors register the response as the hand held wand glides over their outer surface. Doesn't point out what the problem is - only that the muscles are strained or tight as a result. In a way though it puts down or records on paper what we may be experiencing more so than a dr simply writing down "muscle tightness" in his office visit notes. The one I took was called a surface EMG - but I had the needle EMG done too - which I found most painful btw - and pretty much got the same results - overreactive muscle respons - but the needle EMG is used more to detect "lack" of response associated with many neuromuscular conditions, so an over response is basically ignored and deemed insignificant.
Well - here's hoping this is a good week for us all - we got more snow this morning so I am off to go clear the driveway again.
luvtocamp
01-18-2009, 02:33 PM
Hey snowing here too a little. Its suppose to warm up a little this week so thats a good sign.
Emg's are painful with the needles. This was just the sensor which was very cold but didn't hurt. Yes that is one thing I had a problem with I guess, he should of done a feeling assessment himself, not rely on a machine. A well trained therapist can do an assessment with their hands like you said, and oh I could tell you where the red lines were as I know where my muscles are tight- I read they are a very strong selling point for chiro's - these machines really impress people.
Your right, I need to follow my gut and when I go tomorrow I'm going to tell him that I need to think about it as I've not made any concrete decisions yet, as I like to think about things first.
You are probably as comfy with your chiro as I am with my osteo, and boy you are right we chance it anytime we try someone new.
Take it easy with the cleaning of the apart. I sure hope you get better luck with your next set of tenets.
Emg's are painful with the needles. This was just the sensor which was very cold but didn't hurt. Yes that is one thing I had a problem with I guess, he should of done a feeling assessment himself, not rely on a machine. A well trained therapist can do an assessment with their hands like you said, and oh I could tell you where the red lines were as I know where my muscles are tight- I read they are a very strong selling point for chiro's - these machines really impress people.
Your right, I need to follow my gut and when I go tomorrow I'm going to tell him that I need to think about it as I've not made any concrete decisions yet, as I like to think about things first.
You are probably as comfy with your chiro as I am with my osteo, and boy you are right we chance it anytime we try someone new.
Take it easy with the cleaning of the apart. I sure hope you get better luck with your next set of tenets.
StillHope
01-18-2009, 06:53 PM
LTC, I agree that experienced body workers can easily detect tight muscles (even my daughter could after several sessions when a friend showed to her!) so sensors and computers are to impress. TL is right- just follow your gut feeling in regards to the chiro and the dentist. If the new dentist can do smth good for you (reline your old dentures) ask him to start with this (check the fee in advance!) and tell him that you'd like to go slowly after what you've been through. If he'll understand it's a plus for him if not, you might save yourself from more surprises.
With the dentist that you are seeing maybe you can be more firm and more formal now: ask him about the progress, the deadlines, your symptoms, etc. Maybe you can say that you got a 2nd opinion and that the back teeth on one side should not be hitting first and so on...
I think that at this point we should really try to get everything positive that we can from each dentist! They used us enough until we started learning smth.
TL, sometimes I almost feel that dentists do what they do (more mess and things worse) on purpose- just to make sure you won't go away and will be with them from now on forever...
It's great that you got some energy to do things and make your apt ready for rent! Being able to "place a check" on our list of things to do feels so good! I almost lost this feeling as I am unable lately to do and accomplish anything.
Yes, lots of posts on surgeries. It's scary. All I know even from dental sites is that this should be the very last reserve; the body can really adapt to a lot of things (no disks, e.g.) when given the chance. So I am still hoping that my tmj will survive all the abuse which dentists placed on it and which I am placing on it myself b/c I need to eat, sleep, speak, etc. with the mess that I have.
TL, you are very right about the jaw constantly trying to reach the teeth even if they are too low to actually touch. After my last molars were re-prepared lately I started sleeping somewhat better b/c the jaw gave up on making any contact there. But this means that I won't be able to place any or bad temps there unless they will really match my bite. The edges of the preps are very sharp and cut my tongue but I can't think of what to do now unless I want my jaw to pull to that side again.
I was thinking to buy a second nightguard and try placing it on the lower plane and then possibly cut them both to make proper planes for my jaw (since they are both flat). The only objection is that they will be too wide to fit in my mouth unless I will really cut them a lot by the cheek side. I might still try smth like that -- just need more inspiration and energy.
LTC, I am glad it was useful about the vits. They send brochures with sales all the time: buy one get 1-2 free and so on, I like it.
This week I will see the dentist who made the last mess- he suggested to make a lower nightguard instead of an NTI (which I doubt that he would do properly anyway). But I do not count on him for anything else.
Basically want to align myself the best possible way before I'll go to anyone new.
Oh, in regards to chiros. Feeling relaxed and having ALL the muscles relaxed is not the same! There are very deep tiny muscles holding the vertebra and moving them. Even a muscle relaxant pill might not relax them all. Besides if you close your teeth the muscles get on their "loops" literally in seconds!!! Not in 3 months like they tell you needed "to get used to smth." If you need that time to get used it only means that it won't be comfy and that your body will have to learn how to cope with the new problem.
At the beginning of my story I had two back bridges made in my friend's lab and in an hour I just forgot that I had the teeth. Three nights were like in heaven until I saw the dentist who surely didn't like the idea that this worked while his work was a failure. Right away he filed down two permanent crowns on the lower jaw-- and a new round started! The bridges did not fit any more and I got pain in my jaw.
What I want to say is that even if the muscles are completely relaxed they need a chance to be this way for a while, then they will align the vertebra. What we all have is like a wrong loop with no "what's first". I think that first should be some kind of comfort for the jaw and bite which can possibly help us relax enough so that the body can find its real bite and make all muscles coordinate.
I think that just pushing a bone in place might make another bone compensate for it. If we could have them all in place at once-- maybe then all the muscles will say "ah-h-h" and relax and all will be great. But who can achieve this and how???
I agree that we should do whatever helps us and our bodies to feel better and be pain-free. It seems that TL's chiro is gentle and knowledgeable enough not to force things out of alignment and not to cause more pain and instead helps the body to align. This is exactly what we need. All body work is kind of an art, so there is no one recipe. I had a week of pains and spasms even from a massage!
With the dentist that you are seeing maybe you can be more firm and more formal now: ask him about the progress, the deadlines, your symptoms, etc. Maybe you can say that you got a 2nd opinion and that the back teeth on one side should not be hitting first and so on...
I think that at this point we should really try to get everything positive that we can from each dentist! They used us enough until we started learning smth.
TL, sometimes I almost feel that dentists do what they do (more mess and things worse) on purpose- just to make sure you won't go away and will be with them from now on forever...
It's great that you got some energy to do things and make your apt ready for rent! Being able to "place a check" on our list of things to do feels so good! I almost lost this feeling as I am unable lately to do and accomplish anything.
Yes, lots of posts on surgeries. It's scary. All I know even from dental sites is that this should be the very last reserve; the body can really adapt to a lot of things (no disks, e.g.) when given the chance. So I am still hoping that my tmj will survive all the abuse which dentists placed on it and which I am placing on it myself b/c I need to eat, sleep, speak, etc. with the mess that I have.
TL, you are very right about the jaw constantly trying to reach the teeth even if they are too low to actually touch. After my last molars were re-prepared lately I started sleeping somewhat better b/c the jaw gave up on making any contact there. But this means that I won't be able to place any or bad temps there unless they will really match my bite. The edges of the preps are very sharp and cut my tongue but I can't think of what to do now unless I want my jaw to pull to that side again.
I was thinking to buy a second nightguard and try placing it on the lower plane and then possibly cut them both to make proper planes for my jaw (since they are both flat). The only objection is that they will be too wide to fit in my mouth unless I will really cut them a lot by the cheek side. I might still try smth like that -- just need more inspiration and energy.
LTC, I am glad it was useful about the vits. They send brochures with sales all the time: buy one get 1-2 free and so on, I like it.
This week I will see the dentist who made the last mess- he suggested to make a lower nightguard instead of an NTI (which I doubt that he would do properly anyway). But I do not count on him for anything else.
Basically want to align myself the best possible way before I'll go to anyone new.
Oh, in regards to chiros. Feeling relaxed and having ALL the muscles relaxed is not the same! There are very deep tiny muscles holding the vertebra and moving them. Even a muscle relaxant pill might not relax them all. Besides if you close your teeth the muscles get on their "loops" literally in seconds!!! Not in 3 months like they tell you needed "to get used to smth." If you need that time to get used it only means that it won't be comfy and that your body will have to learn how to cope with the new problem.
At the beginning of my story I had two back bridges made in my friend's lab and in an hour I just forgot that I had the teeth. Three nights were like in heaven until I saw the dentist who surely didn't like the idea that this worked while his work was a failure. Right away he filed down two permanent crowns on the lower jaw-- and a new round started! The bridges did not fit any more and I got pain in my jaw.
What I want to say is that even if the muscles are completely relaxed they need a chance to be this way for a while, then they will align the vertebra. What we all have is like a wrong loop with no "what's first". I think that first should be some kind of comfort for the jaw and bite which can possibly help us relax enough so that the body can find its real bite and make all muscles coordinate.
I think that just pushing a bone in place might make another bone compensate for it. If we could have them all in place at once-- maybe then all the muscles will say "ah-h-h" and relax and all will be great. But who can achieve this and how???
I agree that we should do whatever helps us and our bodies to feel better and be pain-free. It seems that TL's chiro is gentle and knowledgeable enough not to force things out of alignment and not to cause more pain and instead helps the body to align. This is exactly what we need. All body work is kind of an art, so there is no one recipe. I had a week of pains and spasms even from a massage!
StillHope
01-18-2009, 08:09 PM
TL, just wanted to say that I read your posts on other threads and they are so good to help people and make them resourceful!! Not only you know a lot but your language is great.
Thelma-Louise
01-19-2009, 12:48 AM
Yeah - I must have been a writer in another life or missed my calling in this one - LOL.
My chiro is not gentle - he is actually quite forceful - but he lets me tell him "enough". But he made a point of mentioning that the degree of force my facial or cranial spasms generate need the same degree of force to be corrected - and that kind of makes sense to me. When the spasms first started b/c they were so forceful if not violent at times - I thought I was either having a convulsion or stroke - and if not that, I was going to snap my neck and be paralyzed as a result or gag on my tongue and just choke to death. They were that frightening - not just for me but for anyone that witnessed them - so I can understand the reactions of many of the drs I first saw although I didn't appreciate them nonetheless. But whatever he is doing is helping b/c the number of spasms I now daily get is more than 50% less than when I first started going to him in 2007 - now that can be either b/c he is doing the right thing for my problem - or as my med dr would be more inclined to say, is that the spasms are resolving themselves and just running their course. But maybe its the type or technique the chiro practices that makes the difference - even my current chiro does not "crack" me - I think if someone ever tried to do that with me I would freak out literally. Personally my motto is research it, ask plenty of questions and tell them go slowly just until I feel more comfortable with them and can decide if it is helping or not.
I remember when I tried a different cranial sacralist closer to home - I was hoping I would get the same results as I did with the one I went to in NYC for a year - at my first appt she asked me to remove all my clothes (I said no) and she lit incense candles and started doing her yoga mantra while she worked on my pressure points. The next appt - I still said no to removing my clothes, she did the candles and mantra routine and then at one point started asking me about my childhood - and then suddenly started saying how my current conditon was the result of childhood hurt and neglect and my body had internalized all of those childhood fears and now was releasing it as "tmj" - well I gave her the one eyed cocked eyebrow look - and said no, I don't think so. I went to one more appt and she raised the issue again and I never went back. So like I said there are quacks out there for sure.
Well I know LTC has appts this week and you have one as well - so good luck to you both.
Man - its snowing again - I think I would prefer just one big storm instead of a few inches every other day.
My chiro is not gentle - he is actually quite forceful - but he lets me tell him "enough". But he made a point of mentioning that the degree of force my facial or cranial spasms generate need the same degree of force to be corrected - and that kind of makes sense to me. When the spasms first started b/c they were so forceful if not violent at times - I thought I was either having a convulsion or stroke - and if not that, I was going to snap my neck and be paralyzed as a result or gag on my tongue and just choke to death. They were that frightening - not just for me but for anyone that witnessed them - so I can understand the reactions of many of the drs I first saw although I didn't appreciate them nonetheless. But whatever he is doing is helping b/c the number of spasms I now daily get is more than 50% less than when I first started going to him in 2007 - now that can be either b/c he is doing the right thing for my problem - or as my med dr would be more inclined to say, is that the spasms are resolving themselves and just running their course. But maybe its the type or technique the chiro practices that makes the difference - even my current chiro does not "crack" me - I think if someone ever tried to do that with me I would freak out literally. Personally my motto is research it, ask plenty of questions and tell them go slowly just until I feel more comfortable with them and can decide if it is helping or not.
I remember when I tried a different cranial sacralist closer to home - I was hoping I would get the same results as I did with the one I went to in NYC for a year - at my first appt she asked me to remove all my clothes (I said no) and she lit incense candles and started doing her yoga mantra while she worked on my pressure points. The next appt - I still said no to removing my clothes, she did the candles and mantra routine and then at one point started asking me about my childhood - and then suddenly started saying how my current conditon was the result of childhood hurt and neglect and my body had internalized all of those childhood fears and now was releasing it as "tmj" - well I gave her the one eyed cocked eyebrow look - and said no, I don't think so. I went to one more appt and she raised the issue again and I never went back. So like I said there are quacks out there for sure.
Well I know LTC has appts this week and you have one as well - so good luck to you both.
Man - its snowing again - I think I would prefer just one big storm instead of a few inches every other day.
luvtocamp
01-19-2009, 10:58 AM
Well Ladies, my appoint is at 11 so I'll let you know how it goes.
The new dentist I went and seen called again this am, I let the answering machine take it, ya know I called them on Fri and said I'd get back with them after the chiro goes over my stuff, I like that they are caring and calling but in a way I am beginning to feel a little hounded, I don't know how to take that.
TL- my osteo is not like that, it she was I'd be running too. Some of them do think its some childhood trauma thats locked inside of us, I'm just not into all this new age stuff, mine is into energy fields and holds group meetings but shes never approached me with any of it and has never talked to me about it. I do get into a gown with her but keep my socks and undies on.
Stillhope- I hope your dentist can make a splint to make you feel more balanced. right now I use Glacier Milk Complete Nutrition, a liquid that I get at Sams, I also take fish pills, extra Vit C , cal, and mag, whey protein, and gluscosamine and chrontin (liq) but just ran out. I feel like a vitamin factory, but really I only take the recommended dosages, but the vit C I take more of as its helps with collagen formation.
I was low on Vit D3 when my doctor checked me so I also take 50,000 IU once of week that I have a script for and he checks my levels all the time. He said D3 is important for our mood, bones and many other things. he has his whole family on it.
Now I have read that you shouldn't take Cal and Mag at the same time as they both go after the same receptors, but alot of Cal vits contain mag so don't know how true that is.
Well have a feeling I'm going to hear how messed up my spine is - I can hear it now- I feel so obligated to do treatment with him for giving me free xrays but I'm not going to let that make my decision.
Not snowing here yet, but is suppose too.
The new dentist I went and seen called again this am, I let the answering machine take it, ya know I called them on Fri and said I'd get back with them after the chiro goes over my stuff, I like that they are caring and calling but in a way I am beginning to feel a little hounded, I don't know how to take that.
TL- my osteo is not like that, it she was I'd be running too. Some of them do think its some childhood trauma thats locked inside of us, I'm just not into all this new age stuff, mine is into energy fields and holds group meetings but shes never approached me with any of it and has never talked to me about it. I do get into a gown with her but keep my socks and undies on.
Stillhope- I hope your dentist can make a splint to make you feel more balanced. right now I use Glacier Milk Complete Nutrition, a liquid that I get at Sams, I also take fish pills, extra Vit C , cal, and mag, whey protein, and gluscosamine and chrontin (liq) but just ran out. I feel like a vitamin factory, but really I only take the recommended dosages, but the vit C I take more of as its helps with collagen formation.
I was low on Vit D3 when my doctor checked me so I also take 50,000 IU once of week that I have a script for and he checks my levels all the time. He said D3 is important for our mood, bones and many other things. he has his whole family on it.
Now I have read that you shouldn't take Cal and Mag at the same time as they both go after the same receptors, but alot of Cal vits contain mag so don't know how true that is.
Well have a feeling I'm going to hear how messed up my spine is - I can hear it now- I feel so obligated to do treatment with him for giving me free xrays but I'm not going to let that make my decision.
Not snowing here yet, but is suppose too.
Thelma-Louise
01-19-2009, 11:32 AM
Yeah - I believe in neg and pos energy too - but the new age bit was too much for me too - I told my sister at one point the age of aquarious came and went and those days are long gone for me so I just need to focus on here and today.
Good Luck LTC - I hope it goes well. I would be thinking the same thing if a dr or dentist kept calling me - funny b/c when they seem not to care we feel they are not interested in our case and when they seem too interested if not pushy we suspect them of just wanting the business. At this point given my track record with drs I prefer the latter but also due to my track record I would be worried about another impending failure or getting worse - sometimes our past failures influence our decision making process and ability to rationalize issues - its certainly not easy to live with the constant uncertainty.
My thoughts will be with you - and let me know how it goes - don't feel pressured to let him adjust you today - even if he did the xrays for nothing - don't feel obligated - just tell him you need to think about it some more.
Good Luck LTC - I hope it goes well. I would be thinking the same thing if a dr or dentist kept calling me - funny b/c when they seem not to care we feel they are not interested in our case and when they seem too interested if not pushy we suspect them of just wanting the business. At this point given my track record with drs I prefer the latter but also due to my track record I would be worried about another impending failure or getting worse - sometimes our past failures influence our decision making process and ability to rationalize issues - its certainly not easy to live with the constant uncertainty.
My thoughts will be with you - and let me know how it goes - don't feel pressured to let him adjust you today - even if he did the xrays for nothing - don't feel obligated - just tell him you need to think about it some more.
luvtocamp
01-19-2009, 01:52 PM
TL- Stillhope is right, you do have a way with words, your words seem to flow, hey maybe write a book.
Well definately my hips were very torqued, and I have the forward head posture, no curve in my lower back (I knew that), and then he had me lay down to assess me, and felt my muscles, and then turned my neck and it cracked, but he didn't do it(it cracked on its own), then he used the activator but was gentle , I didn't think he was going to do a treatment but I guess he did. My ears are ringing now, he did use the activator down my spine and then he said he does a form of muscle testing, and said I was low on cardiac, adrenal and immune support and suggested vits and I told him I take vits.
Now the muscle testing the dentist in hastings did but this guy did it different just held my hands out and touched parts of my body. I know your ICAT does the muscle testing but did he suggest vits to you?? I just don't know how I buy into that.
I hate that my ears are ringing again, he said if I have a headache to drink lots of water.
He said my c1 and 2 look pretty aligned. He thinks I should come 3 times a week and tomorrow and Fri. I said I'll see how I feel tomorrow..
He did the activator at the bottom of both ears down my neck and down my spine. He also pulled on my legs which I didn't like, he said to make me taller.
I don't know what to think.:dizzy: I really don't know how he can assess my organs by muscle testing, I can see how maybe my spine, but my organs and then suggest vitamins.
So such was my visit. Are we just caught in an endless cycle, now my cheeks are trobbing, is there just no answere out there.
also he mentioned it would take a year to get my spine and muscles retrained.
Well definately my hips were very torqued, and I have the forward head posture, no curve in my lower back (I knew that), and then he had me lay down to assess me, and felt my muscles, and then turned my neck and it cracked, but he didn't do it(it cracked on its own), then he used the activator but was gentle , I didn't think he was going to do a treatment but I guess he did. My ears are ringing now, he did use the activator down my spine and then he said he does a form of muscle testing, and said I was low on cardiac, adrenal and immune support and suggested vits and I told him I take vits.
Now the muscle testing the dentist in hastings did but this guy did it different just held my hands out and touched parts of my body. I know your ICAT does the muscle testing but did he suggest vits to you?? I just don't know how I buy into that.
I hate that my ears are ringing again, he said if I have a headache to drink lots of water.
He said my c1 and 2 look pretty aligned. He thinks I should come 3 times a week and tomorrow and Fri. I said I'll see how I feel tomorrow..
He did the activator at the bottom of both ears down my neck and down my spine. He also pulled on my legs which I didn't like, he said to make me taller.
I don't know what to think.:dizzy: I really don't know how he can assess my organs by muscle testing, I can see how maybe my spine, but my organs and then suggest vitamins.
So such was my visit. Are we just caught in an endless cycle, now my cheeks are trobbing, is there just no answere out there.
also he mentioned it would take a year to get my spine and muscles retrained.
Thelma-Louise
01-19-2009, 03:32 PM
Thanks for the compliment - from both of you - its probably due to reading the Reader's Digest for many years and doing that Vocabulary Buiding exercise they have - I think it was once called word power - or something like that - but I enjoyed reading the stories and the humour and funny jokes it had. LOL:)
This chiro sounds more like my dentist - maybe he is holistic too? My dentist says the bite influences muscles and in turn they influence organs. His muscle testing sounds similar to my dentist as well. The cranial sacralist in NYC would pull my legs though - but I liked it as I feel I am compressed or collasped. Its similar to having traction done - if you have ever tried that. My neck still cracks on its own - just not as much anymore - the fact yours did when laying down does suggest you are torqued.
I have never spoken with my chiro about vits and supplements but do know he is vegan and does the fasting and detox programs several times a year - he always has this grey look to him during those times as well - I want to tell him he looks like rotting meat or a walking corpse.
Don't let the fact that some of your symptoms return or recur deter you one way or another - I am noticing that too and mentioned it to my chiro and was told they would b/c as the body is being re-directed to its original position and untorqued - the symptoms return same as they did while the body was becoming torqued - only in reverse - so the symptoms you experienced while you were becoming torqued are similar if not the same to the symptoms you experience while becoming untorqued. Again - another idea that makes sense - but is it true or not - I have know clue. The gulible side of me sometimes finds it easier to just accept what they say as its too much effort to find fault with everything - which is how I tend to be as well.
The first chiro I went to that used the activator said b/c it can be used very gently it often takes several weeks before signifanct improvement will be noticed - did he suggest how long it would be to see at least some results? If it makes you feel any better - my current chiro - honest but blunt - told me it would several years for me to be totally back to normal and he wasn't sure it would was going to work either - I guess he didn't want me to have false hopes - but the fact he was willing try - and that I was so desperate at the time and was willing to try anyhting - just made me stick with it but I still have my doubts even now. I guess we just need some sign - some slight improvement - to let us know it is the right treatment for us.
Hey - the good thing is he didn't crack you - LOL. One dr told me that that is being done less and less these days due to newer techniques. The activator is not too bad though right? the worse part about it I found was the noise it made - kind of like a staple gun.
Question - which set of teeth did you wear - old or new? Did you discuss your dental situation with him?
This chiro sounds more like my dentist - maybe he is holistic too? My dentist says the bite influences muscles and in turn they influence organs. His muscle testing sounds similar to my dentist as well. The cranial sacralist in NYC would pull my legs though - but I liked it as I feel I am compressed or collasped. Its similar to having traction done - if you have ever tried that. My neck still cracks on its own - just not as much anymore - the fact yours did when laying down does suggest you are torqued.
I have never spoken with my chiro about vits and supplements but do know he is vegan and does the fasting and detox programs several times a year - he always has this grey look to him during those times as well - I want to tell him he looks like rotting meat or a walking corpse.
Don't let the fact that some of your symptoms return or recur deter you one way or another - I am noticing that too and mentioned it to my chiro and was told they would b/c as the body is being re-directed to its original position and untorqued - the symptoms return same as they did while the body was becoming torqued - only in reverse - so the symptoms you experienced while you were becoming torqued are similar if not the same to the symptoms you experience while becoming untorqued. Again - another idea that makes sense - but is it true or not - I have know clue. The gulible side of me sometimes finds it easier to just accept what they say as its too much effort to find fault with everything - which is how I tend to be as well.
The first chiro I went to that used the activator said b/c it can be used very gently it often takes several weeks before signifanct improvement will be noticed - did he suggest how long it would be to see at least some results? If it makes you feel any better - my current chiro - honest but blunt - told me it would several years for me to be totally back to normal and he wasn't sure it would was going to work either - I guess he didn't want me to have false hopes - but the fact he was willing try - and that I was so desperate at the time and was willing to try anyhting - just made me stick with it but I still have my doubts even now. I guess we just need some sign - some slight improvement - to let us know it is the right treatment for us.
Hey - the good thing is he didn't crack you - LOL. One dr told me that that is being done less and less these days due to newer techniques. The activator is not too bad though right? the worse part about it I found was the noise it made - kind of like a staple gun.
Question - which set of teeth did you wear - old or new? Did you discuss your dental situation with him?
luvtocamp
01-19-2009, 05:39 PM
yes the readers digest, my script just ran out, I like the jokes in it.
"my current chiro - honest but blunt - told me it would several years for me to be totally back to normal " and what is "normal"? I mean several years of going to the chiro, is that not extreme. Of course I've been seeing osteo's for 2 years and where am I, is it the osteo or the dentist?
No he didn't crack my neck but turned it way to the side and it cracked, and he said "I didn't do that" and really its not like he jerked it, but maybe he did it in a way that it would crack, see how I am, just not real trusting anymore I guess.
I wore the new dentures I've been wearing as the other ones would need a reline.
When he brought up vits I said I take them, but maybe the adrenal support one wouldn't be bad, stress plays havoc on the adrenal glands.
I will go to my appoints on Wed and go from there. Apparently he likes the new dentist I seen but thats his dentist and I think they refer to each other I suspect,but I don't think the chiro tells the dentist what bite adjustments to make.
My doctor office called and wanted to know why I didn't get my lab work redone, I said the "weather" so I just went and did it- I have an appoint on Tues. I think I'll ask him for a chest xray, to see if anything is off there. Lung CA doesn't show up in a chest xray for several years, but they also show if the heart is enlarged. Hopefully my labs will be better, I had leukocytosis, and Red Blood Cell macrocytosis. I really don't think I have anemia. I get iron in my vits. I may have been dehydrated that day but I drink lots of water. I also have a carbon monoxide detector in the house. Do YOU??
Ya know I remember you said you haven't been to your family doctor in a long time, maybe you should go in and get some labs done and make sure everything is good in that area.
I don't know, I told the chiro I really like my osteo, and he said I should see them both, and then I said I like my dentist , but I'm thinking its time to change, and he said "that would be a no brainer for me" maybe hes right.
Did you email your dentist yet?
It baffels my mind that our "innate healing (chiro term) is not occuring". And I think it would be if our bites were ok and we'd get rid of this stress.
"my current chiro - honest but blunt - told me it would several years for me to be totally back to normal " and what is "normal"? I mean several years of going to the chiro, is that not extreme. Of course I've been seeing osteo's for 2 years and where am I, is it the osteo or the dentist?
No he didn't crack my neck but turned it way to the side and it cracked, and he said "I didn't do that" and really its not like he jerked it, but maybe he did it in a way that it would crack, see how I am, just not real trusting anymore I guess.
I wore the new dentures I've been wearing as the other ones would need a reline.
When he brought up vits I said I take them, but maybe the adrenal support one wouldn't be bad, stress plays havoc on the adrenal glands.
I will go to my appoints on Wed and go from there. Apparently he likes the new dentist I seen but thats his dentist and I think they refer to each other I suspect,but I don't think the chiro tells the dentist what bite adjustments to make.
My doctor office called and wanted to know why I didn't get my lab work redone, I said the "weather" so I just went and did it- I have an appoint on Tues. I think I'll ask him for a chest xray, to see if anything is off there. Lung CA doesn't show up in a chest xray for several years, but they also show if the heart is enlarged. Hopefully my labs will be better, I had leukocytosis, and Red Blood Cell macrocytosis. I really don't think I have anemia. I get iron in my vits. I may have been dehydrated that day but I drink lots of water. I also have a carbon monoxide detector in the house. Do YOU??
Ya know I remember you said you haven't been to your family doctor in a long time, maybe you should go in and get some labs done and make sure everything is good in that area.
I don't know, I told the chiro I really like my osteo, and he said I should see them both, and then I said I like my dentist , but I'm thinking its time to change, and he said "that would be a no brainer for me" maybe hes right.
Did you email your dentist yet?
It baffels my mind that our "innate healing (chiro term) is not occuring". And I think it would be if our bites were ok and we'd get rid of this stress.
Thelma-Louise
01-19-2009, 09:27 PM
Yes, I agree several years is extreme - however compared to when this started in 2004 I am much better in every way - every symptom I have had is now either less severe, less frequent or less dibiliating - but not gone - so who knows - it may be just a matter of time. So maybe "normal" is being symptom free - which at times I can not recall what that feels like. I still look at pictures of myself smiling widely or laughing and my mouth is wide open and can't remember how that feels - will we ever know that feeling again to laugh w/o thinking about it?
My neck still cracks - are you saying your neck never cracked on its own during all of this? There were months where the slighest move of my head made my neck crack and times it would crack while I was laying down and I could feel this tremor go down my spine. Also since I had the head forward and side tilt going on I had limited movement or mobility with my neck - so straightening my neck up and rasiing my head induced a crack if not several. Back then I couldn't even turn it one way or the other. Do you have full range of motion with it and and can turn your head freely and quickly w/o any noise now or before you went to see him? Its only been the last couple months where I have noticed I can once again turn my head side to side freely and effortlessly. But if I do it too quickly it will crack.
Its sad in a way - but I do know how you feel about mistrusting all of this, every new dr, every new treatment, watching everything they do or say, etc - it sounds like paranoia but it comes from fear of this getting worse, since that is what we have experienced these past few years - just faliure.
You know at one point my dentist mentioned to me that I may have to go see a therapist even if he gets me back my bite - he said some people develop something similar to PTDS where its hard for them to forget the "trauma" they endured, and accept the fact that it may be over b/c the pattern of behavior (fear of chewing, fear of pain, fear of social occassions, etc) they were forced into for however long they lived with the tmj issue - becomes ingrained in the brain so in essence we need to retrain and reprogram our brains - at the time he said it I said to myself - hogwash, just get rid of the pain and my brain and behavior will return to what it once was, but I still think about what he said from time to time.
Yeah - i am not crazy when drs refer patients to each other b/c they have a pre-exisiting personal relationship - that is how I got referred to the dentist that started my problem. Although I like the referral part - I prefer if it would be b/c he has seen evidence that suggests the other is very good with his other patients.
My concern of doing both the osteo and chiro at the same time would be if one is pushing you one way and the other is pushing you another and if something is off you won't know who caused what. But if the osteo is just massaging your muscles and not really re-aligning your skeletal structure I don't see why it could not be done at the same time -especially if the chiro doesn't feel it will interefere in any way.
I don't know - its easy for people to say with confidence try someone else - this is not working for you - they are not the ones going through it. My sister is aggravated that I am still seeing my dentist but she doesn't even feel the teeth have anything to do with my problem. Is she right? - I don't know - it doesn't seem that way to me.
Let me know how you feel tomorrow - if you notice any changes in your symptoms or feel worse, etc.
Are you still keeping the teeth out during the day or night?
My neck still cracks - are you saying your neck never cracked on its own during all of this? There were months where the slighest move of my head made my neck crack and times it would crack while I was laying down and I could feel this tremor go down my spine. Also since I had the head forward and side tilt going on I had limited movement or mobility with my neck - so straightening my neck up and rasiing my head induced a crack if not several. Back then I couldn't even turn it one way or the other. Do you have full range of motion with it and and can turn your head freely and quickly w/o any noise now or before you went to see him? Its only been the last couple months where I have noticed I can once again turn my head side to side freely and effortlessly. But if I do it too quickly it will crack.
Its sad in a way - but I do know how you feel about mistrusting all of this, every new dr, every new treatment, watching everything they do or say, etc - it sounds like paranoia but it comes from fear of this getting worse, since that is what we have experienced these past few years - just faliure.
You know at one point my dentist mentioned to me that I may have to go see a therapist even if he gets me back my bite - he said some people develop something similar to PTDS where its hard for them to forget the "trauma" they endured, and accept the fact that it may be over b/c the pattern of behavior (fear of chewing, fear of pain, fear of social occassions, etc) they were forced into for however long they lived with the tmj issue - becomes ingrained in the brain so in essence we need to retrain and reprogram our brains - at the time he said it I said to myself - hogwash, just get rid of the pain and my brain and behavior will return to what it once was, but I still think about what he said from time to time.
Yeah - i am not crazy when drs refer patients to each other b/c they have a pre-exisiting personal relationship - that is how I got referred to the dentist that started my problem. Although I like the referral part - I prefer if it would be b/c he has seen evidence that suggests the other is very good with his other patients.
My concern of doing both the osteo and chiro at the same time would be if one is pushing you one way and the other is pushing you another and if something is off you won't know who caused what. But if the osteo is just massaging your muscles and not really re-aligning your skeletal structure I don't see why it could not be done at the same time -especially if the chiro doesn't feel it will interefere in any way.
I don't know - its easy for people to say with confidence try someone else - this is not working for you - they are not the ones going through it. My sister is aggravated that I am still seeing my dentist but she doesn't even feel the teeth have anything to do with my problem. Is she right? - I don't know - it doesn't seem that way to me.
Let me know how you feel tomorrow - if you notice any changes in your symptoms or feel worse, etc.
Are you still keeping the teeth out during the day or night?
luvtocamp
01-20-2009, 09:27 AM
Hi
My neck was feelin pretty good before the new dentures, thats when things tightened up again. Its still tight. I am glad you are feeling better and it sounds like you are more active.
Yes my neck would crack on its own. I don't know, do we even remember how we felt before this all started? I do remember tho I never thought about my teeth or eating or smiling or talking. Even when I got my first dentures I don't think I ever thought about the bite of them, just put them in and wore them ya know.
What your dentist said, I have to agree, the pain is ingrained in our memory and subconscious minds, even now, every time we go to the dentist, chiro,osteo, etc. I think it gets fed and even becomes more ingrained. and the fear , uncertaincy, and having to make decisions and not knowing what to do is all encompasing. Have you ever read the Mind/Body Prescription by Dr. Sarno? I don't buy into everything he says, but the mind can sure play some tricks on us.
The osteo manuvers my spine and does push on the vertebrae, I just don't think its a good idea to have different people work on me.I do get more personalized care with her, but then she thinks my dentist is the best so.
How I feel, my bottom and sacrum was hurting last night, and my head is humming and my neck is tight, r. ear sore., but see I also felt myself stiffen up when he worked on me, I mean I'm sure he didn't do anything that really hurt me- well I'll see what the osteo says tomorrow.
Do you stiffen up when your chiro works on you, or are you relaxed. I often wonder if maybe you do feel better is because you dont' have a bite interferring with thing.
I find the longer I've gotten into this the more fear I have with even moving ya know, like oh my goodness, don't want to make anyting worst.
To me its like were in this pain body and can't find a way out!!!! Like you I've had many injuries in my lifetime, who hasn't really, but the pain would only last for a week or two, not year upon year.
My neck was feelin pretty good before the new dentures, thats when things tightened up again. Its still tight. I am glad you are feeling better and it sounds like you are more active.
Yes my neck would crack on its own. I don't know, do we even remember how we felt before this all started? I do remember tho I never thought about my teeth or eating or smiling or talking. Even when I got my first dentures I don't think I ever thought about the bite of them, just put them in and wore them ya know.
What your dentist said, I have to agree, the pain is ingrained in our memory and subconscious minds, even now, every time we go to the dentist, chiro,osteo, etc. I think it gets fed and even becomes more ingrained. and the fear , uncertaincy, and having to make decisions and not knowing what to do is all encompasing. Have you ever read the Mind/Body Prescription by Dr. Sarno? I don't buy into everything he says, but the mind can sure play some tricks on us.
The osteo manuvers my spine and does push on the vertebrae, I just don't think its a good idea to have different people work on me.I do get more personalized care with her, but then she thinks my dentist is the best so.
How I feel, my bottom and sacrum was hurting last night, and my head is humming and my neck is tight, r. ear sore., but see I also felt myself stiffen up when he worked on me, I mean I'm sure he didn't do anything that really hurt me- well I'll see what the osteo says tomorrow.
Do you stiffen up when your chiro works on you, or are you relaxed. I often wonder if maybe you do feel better is because you dont' have a bite interferring with thing.
I find the longer I've gotten into this the more fear I have with even moving ya know, like oh my goodness, don't want to make anyting worst.
To me its like were in this pain body and can't find a way out!!!! Like you I've had many injuries in my lifetime, who hasn't really, but the pain would only last for a week or two, not year upon year.
StillHope
01-20-2009, 09:54 AM
I agree about the mistrust and questioning every dentist/chiro that we see now. Me too, if I don't feel any "care" from a dental office I think that this is a bad sign but if they do call me I feel that they do it on purpose only for the start. Well, this is what I have experienced so many times... why not to expect that it will happen again?!
Yes, advice from people who have no clue on what we are going through is useless if not harmful. The dentist who messed up my fronts at the start and the one who removed the backs were from "friends" who said that these dentists were "very good"...
TL, I read a book about Trauma's basically about PTSD in seriously abused people, like war/concentration camp survivors, survivors of rape, incest, tortures and so on. While I had none of these in reality, believe it or not: I could associate with practically every "symptom" (I mean psychological sides of trauma) which these people have!! I could find the same analogue in my dental experience! It was actually very useful to read it.
I agree with you in believing that once we will have our bites and no pain we'll be most glad to forget it all once and for all! (Though I still want to write a book to prevent other people falling into the same rut).
I heard "don't think about your teeth" only from dentists who do not do a good job (even based on what other dentists said about their work). So I think we should just keep this in mind when trying to balance between "being too picky" and "trusting every dental word".
TL, it sound like your chiro somehow addresses your muscles? And he doesn't crack your spine. This almost sounds like the osteo I've seen.
He was very forceful too on my muscles (the fascia, as he said) but it felt good after that. Normally I do not like it forceful on my muscles since they easily spasm in response.
My neck continues cracking on its own too, not as bad as two years ago. As it seems to me it's when my body shifts from the jaw falling to the back (where I choke) to falling forward (where the ears hurt). The jaw has to move forward when I start walking, or want to speak so I usually hear a crack or two when I change positions. I try to watch for my jaw not to go too forward (by placing my tongue) but I don't always succeed: we can't think about this 24/7. I am exhausted in 9 years anyway. Just wish to be able to have a break from pain and from this constant "alertness" for at least a day, or a week!!
TLC, I don't think that we should be afraid of every crack if it happens in the body w/o much force. In fact, I like the exam of the chiro whom I've seen since it showed to me that my range of motion in the neck is not symmetric and when he just strongly touched all the vertebras from top to bottom few of them cracked. I think it was good b/c it was a symmetric and aligning impact same as symmetric neck movements which our body should be able to do easily on its own. If I'd have more energy and/or motivation these days I'd certainly start doing the spine exercises... But I just lost the meaning of banging into the same wall over and over again...
Oh, I am totally out of control and do things against my own decisions from a minute ago. Yesterday I called a new office (in Madison, NJ) and they offered me a consult for today!! So I'll go there soon. He is a mentor at Kois center, we'll see. I stopped preparing what I' tell him as I used to do before any new dentist's visit.
Yes, advice from people who have no clue on what we are going through is useless if not harmful. The dentist who messed up my fronts at the start and the one who removed the backs were from "friends" who said that these dentists were "very good"...
TL, I read a book about Trauma's basically about PTSD in seriously abused people, like war/concentration camp survivors, survivors of rape, incest, tortures and so on. While I had none of these in reality, believe it or not: I could associate with practically every "symptom" (I mean psychological sides of trauma) which these people have!! I could find the same analogue in my dental experience! It was actually very useful to read it.
I agree with you in believing that once we will have our bites and no pain we'll be most glad to forget it all once and for all! (Though I still want to write a book to prevent other people falling into the same rut).
I heard "don't think about your teeth" only from dentists who do not do a good job (even based on what other dentists said about their work). So I think we should just keep this in mind when trying to balance between "being too picky" and "trusting every dental word".
TL, it sound like your chiro somehow addresses your muscles? And he doesn't crack your spine. This almost sounds like the osteo I've seen.
He was very forceful too on my muscles (the fascia, as he said) but it felt good after that. Normally I do not like it forceful on my muscles since they easily spasm in response.
My neck continues cracking on its own too, not as bad as two years ago. As it seems to me it's when my body shifts from the jaw falling to the back (where I choke) to falling forward (where the ears hurt). The jaw has to move forward when I start walking, or want to speak so I usually hear a crack or two when I change positions. I try to watch for my jaw not to go too forward (by placing my tongue) but I don't always succeed: we can't think about this 24/7. I am exhausted in 9 years anyway. Just wish to be able to have a break from pain and from this constant "alertness" for at least a day, or a week!!
TLC, I don't think that we should be afraid of every crack if it happens in the body w/o much force. In fact, I like the exam of the chiro whom I've seen since it showed to me that my range of motion in the neck is not symmetric and when he just strongly touched all the vertebras from top to bottom few of them cracked. I think it was good b/c it was a symmetric and aligning impact same as symmetric neck movements which our body should be able to do easily on its own. If I'd have more energy and/or motivation these days I'd certainly start doing the spine exercises... But I just lost the meaning of banging into the same wall over and over again...
Oh, I am totally out of control and do things against my own decisions from a minute ago. Yesterday I called a new office (in Madison, NJ) and they offered me a consult for today!! So I'll go there soon. He is a mentor at Kois center, we'll see. I stopped preparing what I' tell him as I used to do before any new dentist's visit.
StillHope
01-20-2009, 10:06 AM
LTC, you have no obligation to connect a dentist with a body worker (an osteo or a chiro) even if THEY have this "connection". If you like your osteo go to her! If you are tense and do not like the chiro, don't go. Choose the dentist independently! It's your life, your health, your teeth! If the docs don't like your choice -- too bad. I think nowadays, that the economy is so down they mostly care about their survival anyway.
I never had a consult offered for the next day but lately this was the case. I guess dentists don't have so many patients any more willing to spend $$$ for just "beautiful smiles". The dental care might change soon so they might be in a hurry to get as much as they can. We are the ones who pay so we should be the ones to tell them what we like and want and not the other way around. Right?
I never had a consult offered for the next day but lately this was the case. I guess dentists don't have so many patients any more willing to spend $$$ for just "beautiful smiles". The dental care might change soon so they might be in a hurry to get as much as they can. We are the ones who pay so we should be the ones to tell them what we like and want and not the other way around. Right?
luvtocamp
01-20-2009, 11:21 AM
Stillhope- let us know how the appoint. goes. I know I was going to check out a few dentist in town and so far only one so...
I do believe your right, there will be more and more free consults, as in times like these most people can't afford "comestic work".
good luck today, it seldomes matters if I prepare as the conversation seems to drift on its own anyway.
I do believe your right, there will be more and more free consults, as in times like these most people can't afford "comestic work".
good luck today, it seldomes matters if I prepare as the conversation seems to drift on its own anyway.
Thelma-Louise
01-20-2009, 12:25 PM
The first appt with my current chiro - we talked a bit - he said he had spoken with my dentist - wasn't sure he could help - yada, yada, and then he said Ok let's see what we have going on. He asked me to turn with my back facing him and as soon as he touched my neck I just went into a wicked spasm. And he said whoa - what was that - and I told him I didn't know what it was - some drs called it a spasm - but that's what's been going on for more than 3 yrs. It took him almost 20 mins that first appt to be able to even get his hands in a position to do an adjustment. As the months went by and he became more familiar with me I noticed "I" was tensing up when he came to examine me - so I had to start forcing myself to try and relax - the more I did so the more adjustments he could accomplish. Once it got to the point where he could touch me without causing a spasm immediately and I was now relaxing more even when he did touch me - he started getting more forceful with the adjustments and doing more of them during each visit and able to do differnt ones as well - especially with the ones on my face and head - and although they hurt - it was good pain - no other way to decribe it - it felt like the type of pain one gets that is actually a relase of some sort - and I think that's when I started seeing the most improvement and then noticed my spasms were decreasing in frequency - but that didn't happen until almost a full year of treatment had gone by. The first several appts I thought I had actually gotten worse - in fact my spasms increased in verocity and frequency - everyone noticed it and I was thinking of not going any more. Then I started getting this "high" or euphora after each adjustment and I told him that - and he said - that's good that means this is working, better than taking recreational drugs, right? I laughed. Then after a few months the euphora turned into an immediate urge to sleep right after an adjustment that there were times I didn't think I would stay awake during the drive home - and he said - great - that means now your body is relaxing and trying to heal itself - wanting or needing to sleep means your body is getting back on track and knows what it needs to do to accomplish that. Now the last few appts - not every adjustments he does invokes a spasm - in fact we both wait a couple mins to see if one will occur if not he proceeds and now i can even tell him to stop during an adjustment b/c I feel a spasm starting to emerge (I feel them in my feet first) - whereas before they happend seemingly without notice or warning. I don't really understand applied kinesiology - never researched it - but he has me do a series of motions with my arms and positions them in a certain way during an adjustment as well. But the head adjustments are basically him taking his thumbs and pushing on these tender spots I have - I have no clue how he knows where to push - he says its based on his exam.
You know - I never gave the economy much thought in relationship to appts but you are both right - I doubt at this point many will still charge for a consult as they will just want the potential business.
Stillhope - good luck with the appt. Sometimes spur of the moment decisions are actually moments of divine intervetnion - so you never know.
Well I am off for my appt and will check in later.
PS LTC - are you going to tell the osteo about your chiro appt?
You know - I never gave the economy much thought in relationship to appts but you are both right - I doubt at this point many will still charge for a consult as they will just want the potential business.
Stillhope - good luck with the appt. Sometimes spur of the moment decisions are actually moments of divine intervetnion - so you never know.
Well I am off for my appt and will check in later.
PS LTC - are you going to tell the osteo about your chiro appt?
luvtocamp
01-20-2009, 04:15 PM
TL-How'd your chiro visit go.
Stillhope- cant wait to hear about your dental visit. Its either going to be good or not.
No I wont tell the osteo. Wow TL you really had spasms, but it is scarey when you have to feel worst to feel better. Really interesting to hear how
the treatments progressed with you and all the changes you went through.
At first how often did you see him?
Stillhope- cant wait to hear about your dental visit. Its either going to be good or not.
No I wont tell the osteo. Wow TL you really had spasms, but it is scarey when you have to feel worst to feel better. Really interesting to hear how
the treatments progressed with you and all the changes you went through.
At first how often did you see him?
Thelma-Louise
01-20-2009, 06:30 PM
I have only been going 1x weekly since I started with him - when I asked if I should see him more often he said no - that b/c this had been going on for so long he wanted to go very slowly with undoing it. But I know he has some patients come in 2-3 times a week.
Today he did adjustments right on my forehead, bridge of my nose and my temples and then did an adjustment on the c-spine so right now I have a headache that feels like a band of pain between my eyebrows and the top of my upper teeth around my head. Today we talked a bit about my progress and he said I did better than he even expected - he said we have a way to go yet - but he doubts it will get that bad again -even when I do finally get some teeth which I sure hope he is right about since that worries me.
You know when he does these adjustments, that is when I feel the huge idfference in my upper teeth - it feels like my left upper teeth are filed down to the gum line and my right upper teeth are filed much less - it looks that way too - but after an adjustment somehow the left upper side goes up much higer so my upper palate doesn't feel tipped down toward that side and my joints themselves feel uniform or balanced - but I guess what happens is it then begins to tip toward the left again since there is nothing to hold it up and then my symptoms return over the subsequent days.
How are you feeling today, LTC - any different?
Hey Stillhope - how did it go - we are both anxiously awaiting for your report on this dentist.
Today he did adjustments right on my forehead, bridge of my nose and my temples and then did an adjustment on the c-spine so right now I have a headache that feels like a band of pain between my eyebrows and the top of my upper teeth around my head. Today we talked a bit about my progress and he said I did better than he even expected - he said we have a way to go yet - but he doubts it will get that bad again -even when I do finally get some teeth which I sure hope he is right about since that worries me.
You know when he does these adjustments, that is when I feel the huge idfference in my upper teeth - it feels like my left upper teeth are filed down to the gum line and my right upper teeth are filed much less - it looks that way too - but after an adjustment somehow the left upper side goes up much higer so my upper palate doesn't feel tipped down toward that side and my joints themselves feel uniform or balanced - but I guess what happens is it then begins to tip toward the left again since there is nothing to hold it up and then my symptoms return over the subsequent days.
How are you feeling today, LTC - any different?
Hey Stillhope - how did it go - we are both anxiously awaiting for your report on this dentist.
luvtocamp
01-20-2009, 06:46 PM
Woo- been monitoring waiting to hear the news. Maybe Stillhope is getting a splint or something.
got to tell you this- my stepson bought his 9month old dtr. a doll for xmas and she has a pacifier and when you take the pacifier out of its mouth the doll cries. Well I guess he picked her up at daycare and the aide said she kept going around taking everyones pacifiers out !!! I thought it was funny.
Actually my sacrum feels better but not my neck,
that is interesting he must chagne your palate during his treatment do you think, do you think like when on bite is higher like I got, and unbalanced bite, the the high side can actually move your palate up on that side? Do you get what I mean, I mean instead of holding your jaw down, the top side of the palate moves up?
Something just occured to me, you said he worked on the bridge of your nose, my osteo use to but then didn't for awhile, but then when I got the new teeth she has been working there again and seems to me I got a slight headache too, I'm quite sure that is moving the sphenoid.
See I think once a week is enough for me too, maybe twice just starting , but my body like yours I think is sensitive to changes.
got to tell you this- my stepson bought his 9month old dtr. a doll for xmas and she has a pacifier and when you take the pacifier out of its mouth the doll cries. Well I guess he picked her up at daycare and the aide said she kept going around taking everyones pacifiers out !!! I thought it was funny.
Actually my sacrum feels better but not my neck,
that is interesting he must chagne your palate during his treatment do you think, do you think like when on bite is higher like I got, and unbalanced bite, the the high side can actually move your palate up on that side? Do you get what I mean, I mean instead of holding your jaw down, the top side of the palate moves up?
Something just occured to me, you said he worked on the bridge of your nose, my osteo use to but then didn't for awhile, but then when I got the new teeth she has been working there again and seems to me I got a slight headache too, I'm quite sure that is moving the sphenoid.
See I think once a week is enough for me too, maybe twice just starting , but my body like yours I think is sensitive to changes.
StillHope
01-20-2009, 09:25 PM
Guys, I just got back home and ate like a boa for a week (didn't have a bite today except for soy-yogurt). Couldn't wait to share with you.
So far, I really liked the guy. He was kind of informal. Asked me even before I filled in the forms what's with me. I started telling. He said that they just had a lady with a very similar story. I said: " yes, I know I am not alone. I used to feel crazy but I found a forum and there are many people like me." He said: no, you are not crazy.
Then in his office he repeated that I've had a long story. I started telling stuff. Suddenly he said: "wow, you are so aware of your bite". I got scared since this is the phrase which I heard many times and it means : "you are so aware that there is no way to make teeth for you; go somewhere else". So I said: "sorry, just from few years in pain I learned..." He said: "no, it's good. I am teaching students and you tell it so well. May I tape you?" I relaxed and said, of course. So he taped my story and I tried to tell it sequentially tho it's hard for me to concentrate quickly (he was also looking at his watch).
Then he realized that I must have been wearing temps for a long time and he asked. I said yes, for few years now. His eyebrows went up. I said, did I have a choice? And he said, no.
Oh, quite at the beginning he said: "you know more than most of the dental students I teach".... Well, guys! Doesn't it mean that THESE very students go and do dentistry!!! No wonder we get what we get. Of course, I read a lot but I would not dare to treat anyone and they DO!
Basically the dentist suggested to make me a splint for about a month and he showed it to me. It will sit like a denture on the upper palate of the mouth and in the front it's like an NTI-- a tiny flat platform so that the backs won't touch. He said that this will break my muscle habits to go all over in loops. I agree that at this point after the work I had in September this is a necessary step. Until then I could with a lot of conscious efforts, make my jaw go up and down in a stable repeatable position, not any more...
TL, I have exactly what you describe about your palate but only my lower right side is lower than the left one. When I relax it is clearly seen BUT, as in your case, very quickly it pulls up and create the symptoms.
These are all muscles that pull the palate and skew the tmj's and the whole spine. So your chiro is releasing your muscles (with your big help b/c you learned how to relax when he touches you!) and then your real bite and the real position of the palate becomes visible. If you would be able to watch in the mirror right after that (as I did several times) the jaw really starts "jumping" up on one side in small jumps as if trying to feel when this will be even and then at some point it does stop pulling. There is absolutely no way to tell it not to do so!!! I mean until we'll get the teeth which even out our planes to the plane in our joints.
Very interesting about your chiro visits. Thanks for sharing. You learned to train yourself to relax there! I had a similar way when I was going for massages. First she could barely touch my neck and after several sets she would put all her weight on the muscle and it was fine.
Interesting about your euphoric states. I have them once in a while when I feel that suddenly my jaw went to its place; I also feel that the blood is rushing to my face, I stop freezing and I do feel sleepy at once too!
Oh, so about my new dentist. He will make the splint and then he will tell me for sure whether he can treat my case. He said, "your case is very easy, however, it can become very difficult. It all depends on how precise is the comfort zone for your jaw. For some people it's a very narrow zone where you need to "hit" to make them comfy."
I really like this!! It does make a lot of sense to me. Previously i lived for many years with a totally skewed bite and my jaw tolerated it, but now that it's all "broken", the jaw seem to really want it "right". It's great if someone understands this. We'll see how it goes. They'll call me for the splint in about 3 weeks.
So far, I really liked the guy. He was kind of informal. Asked me even before I filled in the forms what's with me. I started telling. He said that they just had a lady with a very similar story. I said: " yes, I know I am not alone. I used to feel crazy but I found a forum and there are many people like me." He said: no, you are not crazy.
Then in his office he repeated that I've had a long story. I started telling stuff. Suddenly he said: "wow, you are so aware of your bite". I got scared since this is the phrase which I heard many times and it means : "you are so aware that there is no way to make teeth for you; go somewhere else". So I said: "sorry, just from few years in pain I learned..." He said: "no, it's good. I am teaching students and you tell it so well. May I tape you?" I relaxed and said, of course. So he taped my story and I tried to tell it sequentially tho it's hard for me to concentrate quickly (he was also looking at his watch).
Then he realized that I must have been wearing temps for a long time and he asked. I said yes, for few years now. His eyebrows went up. I said, did I have a choice? And he said, no.
Oh, quite at the beginning he said: "you know more than most of the dental students I teach".... Well, guys! Doesn't it mean that THESE very students go and do dentistry!!! No wonder we get what we get. Of course, I read a lot but I would not dare to treat anyone and they DO!
Basically the dentist suggested to make me a splint for about a month and he showed it to me. It will sit like a denture on the upper palate of the mouth and in the front it's like an NTI-- a tiny flat platform so that the backs won't touch. He said that this will break my muscle habits to go all over in loops. I agree that at this point after the work I had in September this is a necessary step. Until then I could with a lot of conscious efforts, make my jaw go up and down in a stable repeatable position, not any more...
TL, I have exactly what you describe about your palate but only my lower right side is lower than the left one. When I relax it is clearly seen BUT, as in your case, very quickly it pulls up and create the symptoms.
These are all muscles that pull the palate and skew the tmj's and the whole spine. So your chiro is releasing your muscles (with your big help b/c you learned how to relax when he touches you!) and then your real bite and the real position of the palate becomes visible. If you would be able to watch in the mirror right after that (as I did several times) the jaw really starts "jumping" up on one side in small jumps as if trying to feel when this will be even and then at some point it does stop pulling. There is absolutely no way to tell it not to do so!!! I mean until we'll get the teeth which even out our planes to the plane in our joints.
Very interesting about your chiro visits. Thanks for sharing. You learned to train yourself to relax there! I had a similar way when I was going for massages. First she could barely touch my neck and after several sets she would put all her weight on the muscle and it was fine.
Interesting about your euphoric states. I have them once in a while when I feel that suddenly my jaw went to its place; I also feel that the blood is rushing to my face, I stop freezing and I do feel sleepy at once too!
Oh, so about my new dentist. He will make the splint and then he will tell me for sure whether he can treat my case. He said, "your case is very easy, however, it can become very difficult. It all depends on how precise is the comfort zone for your jaw. For some people it's a very narrow zone where you need to "hit" to make them comfy."
I really like this!! It does make a lot of sense to me. Previously i lived for many years with a totally skewed bite and my jaw tolerated it, but now that it's all "broken", the jaw seem to really want it "right". It's great if someone understands this. We'll see how it goes. They'll call me for the splint in about 3 weeks.
StillHope
01-20-2009, 09:44 PM
TL, did you call your dental office? it's already nearly the end of January!
You know, when this dentist said that they had a lady with a similar story I thought about you, of course. This means that even our so similar stories are not so unique.
Oh, when I was leaving the dentist said: "don't let any other crook touch your mouth any more". I liked it!
It was also funny when he started taping he was explaining about the jaw to me and he said, "I know you probably know this already but I want to show it on the model. Correct me if I say smth wrong". ;) I like people with a sense of humor!!! I am quite hopeful. THOUGH I had it already few times, and was discarded later even with the words that I am a nice lady but they don't know how to restore my bite due to its instability. I can try to be as nice as I can BUT I can't make my jaw behave if it does not!!:(
You know, when this dentist said that they had a lady with a similar story I thought about you, of course. This means that even our so similar stories are not so unique.
Oh, when I was leaving the dentist said: "don't let any other crook touch your mouth any more". I liked it!
It was also funny when he started taping he was explaining about the jaw to me and he said, "I know you probably know this already but I want to show it on the model. Correct me if I say smth wrong". ;) I like people with a sense of humor!!! I am quite hopeful. THOUGH I had it already few times, and was discarded later even with the words that I am a nice lady but they don't know how to restore my bite due to its instability. I can try to be as nice as I can BUT I can't make my jaw behave if it does not!!:(
Thelma-Louise
01-21-2009, 12:13 AM
Woo - LTC was right!
I like this guy Stillhope - no false pretenses or promises he can't keep - recongizes the problem, knows that it should be easy in theory but can end up being difficult in practice - didn't seemed frightened or overwhelmed by your story, although he gave you pause for a min there and he has a sense of humor. The big issue is the comfort zone - can we even remember where that is anymore and how do you get both sides to be in that zone at the same time?
My only concern is the issue of the back teeth not touching - the first dentist did that with me and I struggled with it fighting to get them to touch and then eventually ended up with a severe bout of vertigo - when I am in a resting position I need the back to touch and give me a sense of stability and being stationary - otherwise I my jaw will become highly mobile searching for something to stop it form moving - unless the space he left back there was too much and that caused it?
Interesting that you mention up until Sept you could move your jaw in a stable repeatable position with some effort - that's the problem I have - I move differently all the time - the only way for me to control my movement is by jutting my lower jaw and chin forward.
Did he say why an upper splint and not a lower splint - is it to balance the cranial planes with the tm joints?
How much is he charging for the $plint?:dizzy:
This must be very exciting for you!!
LTC - that was cute about your grand dtr - don't you just love kids at that age?
I think when the left side goes higher my cranial planes become aligned with the tm joints - but yes, I see what you are saying - which is what I feel in a way. Since the teeth on the right side are longer a lot of my pain was on that side b/c in essence that side hit first and the arch and plane on that side, although slightly lower than it once was - is now much higher as a result of the teeth on the left side being lower. Ironcially my pain was more on the left side (I had swelling and a sore tongue too) before the teeth were filed but afterwards it moved to the right - but my spasms are on the left side which probably is b/c that side is way too low - maybe the spasms are my body's way of trying to push my palate up on that side? For some reason though your dentist keeps thinking the left is too high ,right? He keeps lowering it, but that's probably b/c your muscles are pulling it up b/c its too short. Did that make sense? And lowering the right won't help b/c then it decreases the VD and the space within the joint. Your pain on the right is probably not that the right is too high but that the left is too low, no? This has got to be the hardest part of it - getting the cranial planes equally balanced with the tm joints and at the same time getting the teeth to hit at the same time and uniformly.
My first and 2nd chiro I went to 2x weekly for at least the first 4-6 mos and then I tapered down to 1x weekly. I think this guy felt that it took more than 3 yrs to end up like I did when I showed up on his door - so it will take 3 yrs to undo it - why push it - Rome wasn't built in a day. Plus b/c the spasms actually got worse at first, I needed the full week in the beginning to settle down. And the finances came into play as well.
My bro called tonight and asked if I would go to PA for a week in Feb and sit his teenage daughter while him and his wife go on vacation - I didn't know what to say, I am still getting some bad days here and there - I had a rough spell last month for sure - and I am worried, to be honest, of being away from home for so long, even if its just sitting there while she is in school. How do I know I will be OK that week? He needs to know for sure so he can book the reservation so I said to find out if his SIL can do 3-4 days and I would try to do the rest of the week - but see, doesn't this get back to the issue of people just not understanding this at all? Its like he thinks the spasms are the only problem I have and doesn't see that I have pain most of the time regardless of spasms or not, ...it just bothers me and makes me angry at times. Not that I wish anyone to go thru this but if they could just feel it for 10 mins I certainly think they would see it differently.
I like this guy Stillhope - no false pretenses or promises he can't keep - recongizes the problem, knows that it should be easy in theory but can end up being difficult in practice - didn't seemed frightened or overwhelmed by your story, although he gave you pause for a min there and he has a sense of humor. The big issue is the comfort zone - can we even remember where that is anymore and how do you get both sides to be in that zone at the same time?
My only concern is the issue of the back teeth not touching - the first dentist did that with me and I struggled with it fighting to get them to touch and then eventually ended up with a severe bout of vertigo - when I am in a resting position I need the back to touch and give me a sense of stability and being stationary - otherwise I my jaw will become highly mobile searching for something to stop it form moving - unless the space he left back there was too much and that caused it?
Interesting that you mention up until Sept you could move your jaw in a stable repeatable position with some effort - that's the problem I have - I move differently all the time - the only way for me to control my movement is by jutting my lower jaw and chin forward.
Did he say why an upper splint and not a lower splint - is it to balance the cranial planes with the tm joints?
How much is he charging for the $plint?:dizzy:
This must be very exciting for you!!
LTC - that was cute about your grand dtr - don't you just love kids at that age?
I think when the left side goes higher my cranial planes become aligned with the tm joints - but yes, I see what you are saying - which is what I feel in a way. Since the teeth on the right side are longer a lot of my pain was on that side b/c in essence that side hit first and the arch and plane on that side, although slightly lower than it once was - is now much higher as a result of the teeth on the left side being lower. Ironcially my pain was more on the left side (I had swelling and a sore tongue too) before the teeth were filed but afterwards it moved to the right - but my spasms are on the left side which probably is b/c that side is way too low - maybe the spasms are my body's way of trying to push my palate up on that side? For some reason though your dentist keeps thinking the left is too high ,right? He keeps lowering it, but that's probably b/c your muscles are pulling it up b/c its too short. Did that make sense? And lowering the right won't help b/c then it decreases the VD and the space within the joint. Your pain on the right is probably not that the right is too high but that the left is too low, no? This has got to be the hardest part of it - getting the cranial planes equally balanced with the tm joints and at the same time getting the teeth to hit at the same time and uniformly.
My first and 2nd chiro I went to 2x weekly for at least the first 4-6 mos and then I tapered down to 1x weekly. I think this guy felt that it took more than 3 yrs to end up like I did when I showed up on his door - so it will take 3 yrs to undo it - why push it - Rome wasn't built in a day. Plus b/c the spasms actually got worse at first, I needed the full week in the beginning to settle down. And the finances came into play as well.
My bro called tonight and asked if I would go to PA for a week in Feb and sit his teenage daughter while him and his wife go on vacation - I didn't know what to say, I am still getting some bad days here and there - I had a rough spell last month for sure - and I am worried, to be honest, of being away from home for so long, even if its just sitting there while she is in school. How do I know I will be OK that week? He needs to know for sure so he can book the reservation so I said to find out if his SIL can do 3-4 days and I would try to do the rest of the week - but see, doesn't this get back to the issue of people just not understanding this at all? Its like he thinks the spasms are the only problem I have and doesn't see that I have pain most of the time regardless of spasms or not, ...it just bothers me and makes me angry at times. Not that I wish anyone to go thru this but if they could just feel it for 10 mins I certainly think they would see it differently.
luvtocamp
01-21-2009, 08:32 AM
Stillhope- Glad your appoint. went well and you like him, and I think that was a good sign that your knowledge didn't intimidate him. I also liked he fact he said your case is not that complicated, some of them tell you how hard it is to fix tmj and make such a big ordeal out of it like its rocket science.
Yes us nosey people want to know- how much for the splint? Did he do an exam on you, xrays or anything like that. Does he have special equip. What kind of tmj dentist is he.
The first dentist made a top splint our of my upper denture where only my front teeth touched and my jaw would slide back it it, it ddin't work for me with the dentues.
My dentist now always made splints for the bottom back teeth- but I didn't do well with them either, I think its maybe a denture thing with splints, way too much gunk in the mouth.
I so hope this splint helps, and you'll know soon after you get it, is he close by your house??
I just really liked the fact that he didn't try to scare you and tell you what a complicated case you are and how it may take years to fix you.
TL- Oh man your brother has no clue what you are going through, and if he can find someone else I would suggest that, although the girl would be in school you would still not be home, and the dogs and everything. They just don't understand. What if your splints come in and you start feeling bad and need to make trips to the dentist, I'm sorry but right now I just can't see you being able to commit to this. it would be different maybe if she was coming to your house!
Yes we got the same thing going really,one side hits first. my left side I feel is too low and the right too high (just the opposite) as I clatter the teeth on the right when I talk and on the left I feel I have no back bite. A mess and one he can't really fix unless he remakes the teeth. Athought the chiro said my juction looked ok, he didn't take a magnifiying glass to look at it or anything, or do xrays like an upper cervical would, so I suspect its not on due to the umbalanced bite and how I feel.
did you email your dentist??
Hey I feel like my spine bones are moving or cracking so maybe what the chiro did was good, lossen things up I don't know.
Well got to get dressed, one appoint at 9:30 and the dentist at 1:30.
Yes us nosey people want to know- how much for the splint? Did he do an exam on you, xrays or anything like that. Does he have special equip. What kind of tmj dentist is he.
The first dentist made a top splint our of my upper denture where only my front teeth touched and my jaw would slide back it it, it ddin't work for me with the dentues.
My dentist now always made splints for the bottom back teeth- but I didn't do well with them either, I think its maybe a denture thing with splints, way too much gunk in the mouth.
I so hope this splint helps, and you'll know soon after you get it, is he close by your house??
I just really liked the fact that he didn't try to scare you and tell you what a complicated case you are and how it may take years to fix you.
TL- Oh man your brother has no clue what you are going through, and if he can find someone else I would suggest that, although the girl would be in school you would still not be home, and the dogs and everything. They just don't understand. What if your splints come in and you start feeling bad and need to make trips to the dentist, I'm sorry but right now I just can't see you being able to commit to this. it would be different maybe if she was coming to your house!
Yes we got the same thing going really,one side hits first. my left side I feel is too low and the right too high (just the opposite) as I clatter the teeth on the right when I talk and on the left I feel I have no back bite. A mess and one he can't really fix unless he remakes the teeth. Athought the chiro said my juction looked ok, he didn't take a magnifiying glass to look at it or anything, or do xrays like an upper cervical would, so I suspect its not on due to the umbalanced bite and how I feel.
did you email your dentist??
Hey I feel like my spine bones are moving or cracking so maybe what the chiro did was good, lossen things up I don't know.
Well got to get dressed, one appoint at 9:30 and the dentist at 1:30.
Thelma-Louise
01-21-2009, 11:47 AM
My chiro has I guess the standard table which stands vertical and has a metal plate attached to one end that you step on and then lean against the table as he lowers it to a horizontal positon. My first chiro used the same thing but the NUCCA chiro had me lay on a "board" that sat quite low to the ground and only had enough room for you to lay on it on your side - as their adjustments are ususally done to the side of the jaw beneath the ear.
Well good luck with your appt - I will call the dentist today and see what's going on with my teeth.
Well good luck with your appt - I will call the dentist today and see what's going on with my teeth.
luvtocamp
01-21-2009, 11:52 AM
Well my left side has been acting up since he lowered it and now my muscles are tight on that side, might make sense then since I know I'm missing my back bite back there,
something is not adding up. TL -if your there give me your imput - I'm suppose to leave for the dentist in an hour or so.
something is not adding up. TL -if your there give me your imput - I'm suppose to leave for the dentist in an hour or so.
luvtocamp
01-21-2009, 12:06 PM
edited, deleted
luvtocamp
01-21-2009, 01:01 PM
TL- I just don't know what to do.
Thelma-Louise
01-21-2009, 04:42 PM
I am so sorry I wasn't online before - I was finishing up the apt downstairs - by now you are probably at the dentist.
Is it possible that you hit heavy on the rght b/c the upper left plane is raised and you are basically tilted down toward the right so it feels like yo hit heavy on that side. When you say she said the bite is high on the left - do yoo mean upper or lower? Can you tell the difference? When the dentist lowered your left side did he lower the upper or lower teeth? I am wondering if the osteo can not distinguish the muscle difference between the bite being high vs muscles pulling the jaw up b/c it is too low.
What does "bite with your neck on that side" mean?
I know - look don't worry about the little white lie - God will understand and someday the dentist will too - I have done things like that to buy time and allow me a chance to think an issue through more clearly too. We wouldn't do it if we weren't worried about hurting someone's feelings and telling the truth that we are looking into something else - so the intent of doing no harm is still there even though we lied to achieve it. That's how I see it - LOL.;)
I too at some point will end up seeing a periodontist b/c my gums have become so asymentrical now, but I see it as more of a cosmetic issue - so if possible don't get talked into anything just yet but hear the perio out first and see what he has to say in terms of the aveolplasty poosibly causing your issue with the upper denture and affecting your bite or balance. Sometimes new people bring new insight and things begin to clear up and make sense again. I mean most of us struggle to maintain the bulk of our gums and bones when teeth are missing so I worry when they talk of removing some. When I was seeing the perio regularly before the tmj it seemed like what he removed he or another dentist would put back with a bone graft.
Let me know how you made out today - I will say it again - sometimes these sudden or impropto events or decisions are actually moments of divine intervention. Did you get that woman's no you met at the osteo's - I would like to know what she wanted to ask you or discuss - yeah, I am nosey too.
I called my dentists office and my teeth are not yet back yet - they did send them to that lab in Fla this time - which I was happy to hear, but they will call when they are in - I told the woman - her name is Diedra and we have become good friends - I am not pushing - just wanted to make sure they weren't sitting behind a box of polident in the cabinet somewhere and she just laughed. I bet he didn't get them out to the lab until he returned from vacation on Jan 2.
Is it possible that you hit heavy on the rght b/c the upper left plane is raised and you are basically tilted down toward the right so it feels like yo hit heavy on that side. When you say she said the bite is high on the left - do yoo mean upper or lower? Can you tell the difference? When the dentist lowered your left side did he lower the upper or lower teeth? I am wondering if the osteo can not distinguish the muscle difference between the bite being high vs muscles pulling the jaw up b/c it is too low.
What does "bite with your neck on that side" mean?
I know - look don't worry about the little white lie - God will understand and someday the dentist will too - I have done things like that to buy time and allow me a chance to think an issue through more clearly too. We wouldn't do it if we weren't worried about hurting someone's feelings and telling the truth that we are looking into something else - so the intent of doing no harm is still there even though we lied to achieve it. That's how I see it - LOL.;)
I too at some point will end up seeing a periodontist b/c my gums have become so asymentrical now, but I see it as more of a cosmetic issue - so if possible don't get talked into anything just yet but hear the perio out first and see what he has to say in terms of the aveolplasty poosibly causing your issue with the upper denture and affecting your bite or balance. Sometimes new people bring new insight and things begin to clear up and make sense again. I mean most of us struggle to maintain the bulk of our gums and bones when teeth are missing so I worry when they talk of removing some. When I was seeing the perio regularly before the tmj it seemed like what he removed he or another dentist would put back with a bone graft.
Let me know how you made out today - I will say it again - sometimes these sudden or impropto events or decisions are actually moments of divine intervention. Did you get that woman's no you met at the osteo's - I would like to know what she wanted to ask you or discuss - yeah, I am nosey too.
I called my dentists office and my teeth are not yet back yet - they did send them to that lab in Fla this time - which I was happy to hear, but they will call when they are in - I told the woman - her name is Diedra and we have become good friends - I am not pushing - just wanted to make sure they weren't sitting behind a box of polident in the cabinet somewhere and she just laughed. I bet he didn't get them out to the lab until he returned from vacation on Jan 2.
luvtocamp
01-21-2009, 05:13 PM
HI- I figured if you were home you'd respond, I just didn't want the left side lowered when I feel its the right side, and when I left your I just felt so frazzeled and just at my wits end not knowing what to do, and I wanted you opinion.
He only adjusts the bottom teeth so she meant the bottom back and second molar were too high on the left, if anything my R. palate is higher because the aveloplasty was done there. I have no idea what she meant by me biting from my neck!!!!!! All I know is I feel my right side hits first and clatters when I talk, every now and then tho the L. side hits, but ususally the right.
I am hoping that girl calls me too as I'd like to hear how shes doing, I felt she was so happy to see me and really wanted to talk.
Hey I'm so happy your splints are out to the lab, thank goodness, I glad you called so at least you know. What are you going to tell your brother??
He only adjusts the bottom teeth so she meant the bottom back and second molar were too high on the left, if anything my R. palate is higher because the aveloplasty was done there. I have no idea what she meant by me biting from my neck!!!!!! All I know is I feel my right side hits first and clatters when I talk, every now and then tho the L. side hits, but ususally the right.
I am hoping that girl calls me too as I'd like to hear how shes doing, I felt she was so happy to see me and really wanted to talk.
Hey I'm so happy your splints are out to the lab, thank goodness, I glad you called so at least you know. What are you going to tell your brother??
Thelma-Louise
01-21-2009, 08:56 PM
Oh I hate telling my family about anything new I try too. At one point I asked my chiro to record our appts and he said why? and I said so I can show my family what the spasms look like when you "invoke" them - they only see the ones I try hard to stifle and have no clue what they really look like. It kind of hurts in a way when that they don't really understand this - sometimes its almost like they don't even care.
At this point I would just stall your dentist - like you said, get sick or - say your car is out of commsion for a few weeks and you can't find a ride. Do you even think they will call to reschedule or did you already make another appt with him? The other 2 dentists, father and son - they seem legitimately concerned about you and about trying to get you comfortable again. I think at this point if someone said they would give me a refund if they don't fit and feel comfortable I would jump in their lap!;)
Yeah - I think it was the best thing my dentist did so far - just took everything off and said not to wear anything. Granted I am not comfortable this way - and my jaw keeps looking for a place to rest - but wrong teeth can force you waaay out of alignment - no teeth really can't - at least I don't think so. But even doing that - it took quite awhile for things to get to where they are now -even with the chiros help.
So - for now will you let these 2 guys reline the old dentures? or do you want to go straight into a new set with them? Will they have to redo the lower partial too?
This is getting soo exciting - you and Stillhope starting new things - I'm sure I will be commiserating shortly.
At this point I would just stall your dentist - like you said, get sick or - say your car is out of commsion for a few weeks and you can't find a ride. Do you even think they will call to reschedule or did you already make another appt with him? The other 2 dentists, father and son - they seem legitimately concerned about you and about trying to get you comfortable again. I think at this point if someone said they would give me a refund if they don't fit and feel comfortable I would jump in their lap!;)
Yeah - I think it was the best thing my dentist did so far - just took everything off and said not to wear anything. Granted I am not comfortable this way - and my jaw keeps looking for a place to rest - but wrong teeth can force you waaay out of alignment - no teeth really can't - at least I don't think so. But even doing that - it took quite awhile for things to get to where they are now -even with the chiros help.
So - for now will you let these 2 guys reline the old dentures? or do you want to go straight into a new set with them? Will they have to redo the lower partial too?
This is getting soo exciting - you and Stillhope starting new things - I'm sure I will be commiserating shortly.
StillHope
01-22-2009, 12:09 AM
You both wrote a lot today! All my day was gone just in going to a bank, eating and going to the previous dentist for an impression for his promised night-guard. I am so slow due to pain, uncemented temps, dizziness and so on. I am sure you know what I mean.
LTC, it does sound exciting what your new dentist did: calling his dad to check with him, saying about the refund, really willing to make you comfy and even being open to your osteo. As TL says I'd jump in their lap or arms, whatever.
Don't worry about your lies. As Andre Maurois, a French writer said in regards to family conflicts, "A little lie is better than a big trouble". Sick or car or whatever, just warn them in time and politely, which you do anyway.
TL is right also about sharing your news with your family. Why do you need to tell it your husband at all?? Does he ask? If not -- just say you have an appt with a dentist and go. They really do not care that much and mostly they really do not understand, as they are busy with their own thoughts and their own problems like most of the people are!
I have very, very few friends who do care about me and still they don't really understand my situation and I try not to tell all of it, but they do give me support.
But some are like this: one friend (who even had some dental problems but w/o pain!) calls me and invites somewhere; I tell her that I can't go b/c I have no temps or am in pain, etc. She says: well, just go out and walk, run, join me in exercising, a concert, a party and so on... When I try to explain she gets offended and tells me that I am "not doing anything to get out".
TL is also very correct about rest for the TMJ when w/o the teeth. When we don't bite in the wrong bite we also preserve much more: the gum tissue, the bones underneath and prevent the headaches.
When I saw the new dentist I had to tell him that my temps are not cemented. His eyebrows went up but I quickly said that I prefer not to wear temps and minimize my jaw pain than to have the temps cemented and being bedridden. I saw that he could not argue b/c it made sense to him (I chose the "best" out of two evils).
I find it also useful that after not wearing any temps when I place them in I can tell better which side or what exactly is not right with them.
LTC, I know you like your osteo but I doubt very much that any osteo can determine what’s wrong with the bite!! It’s not their expertise at all. She should focus on relaxing your muscles but not give you or the dentist any “ideas” of where your bite should be. I feel this is wrong. The osteo whom I saw and who knew the whole body, all the muscles, bones very well showed to me in his numerous books what he could find in regards to my tmj-muscle question (I forgot what it was then). And there was practically nothing specific there!
TL, I know it's less stable w/o the teeth. I try holding the sides of my face (the chewing muscles from tmj to the chin) with my palms not allowing them to skew the jaw to one side and go all around. It still can "lift" unevenly but it does help to relax them. Of course, I can't do much like this but I can't do much of anything anyway. I also found that instead of using my palms wearing ear-muffs at home helps to even out the joints by placing some pressure on these muscles.
The new dentist asked $427 for a splint. It's the lowest charge I had for the splints though this one is more like an NTI which I heard is about $300-400. I am really afraid to turn him away since so far it all went almost too good to be true. He is about 1 hour from me but it's pretty easy to get there.
TL, did you decide about your bro? I know this would be a really tough one for me: I tend to put other people ahead... Just need to remind myself all the time what they say in the airplane: "If the oxygen masks fall down, place the mask on yourself first, then assist those sitting next to you".
Do I remember my comfort zone?? Yes and no. I do remember how it was when I was comfy with my natural fronts. But I know now that my backs were messed up, and I do not remember anything what I felt before that, i.e. 20 years ago! Just never felt that I had any jaw joints or a bite!!
What I meant by being able to have a stable position of the jaw was my semi-conscious effort in keeping the jaw and the posture in a position which I obtained few times when I managed to relax fully for few hours.
This "stable" position was easily ruined if I'd do anything requiring more concentration than very routine things. But this kind of living was still better than being in continuous pain so it was worse the effort and restrictions.
I do feel too, TL that finding the plane, i.e. the left-right, front-back level parallel to the joints is the hardest thing. Ideally they should be able to get this if they do a very careful "bow transfer". I joked with the new dentist that I was told that I need a bow, that they want to use the "bow and arrow" on me. But when they will adjust what they make using the bow transfer and the muscles spasm, this all can be ruined in a moment. This is why being able to relax the jaw muscles when in a dental office is so crucial! I wish I knew how to achieve it!!
LTC, it does sound exciting what your new dentist did: calling his dad to check with him, saying about the refund, really willing to make you comfy and even being open to your osteo. As TL says I'd jump in their lap or arms, whatever.
Don't worry about your lies. As Andre Maurois, a French writer said in regards to family conflicts, "A little lie is better than a big trouble". Sick or car or whatever, just warn them in time and politely, which you do anyway.
TL is right also about sharing your news with your family. Why do you need to tell it your husband at all?? Does he ask? If not -- just say you have an appt with a dentist and go. They really do not care that much and mostly they really do not understand, as they are busy with their own thoughts and their own problems like most of the people are!
I have very, very few friends who do care about me and still they don't really understand my situation and I try not to tell all of it, but they do give me support.
But some are like this: one friend (who even had some dental problems but w/o pain!) calls me and invites somewhere; I tell her that I can't go b/c I have no temps or am in pain, etc. She says: well, just go out and walk, run, join me in exercising, a concert, a party and so on... When I try to explain she gets offended and tells me that I am "not doing anything to get out".
TL is also very correct about rest for the TMJ when w/o the teeth. When we don't bite in the wrong bite we also preserve much more: the gum tissue, the bones underneath and prevent the headaches.
When I saw the new dentist I had to tell him that my temps are not cemented. His eyebrows went up but I quickly said that I prefer not to wear temps and minimize my jaw pain than to have the temps cemented and being bedridden. I saw that he could not argue b/c it made sense to him (I chose the "best" out of two evils).
I find it also useful that after not wearing any temps when I place them in I can tell better which side or what exactly is not right with them.
LTC, I know you like your osteo but I doubt very much that any osteo can determine what’s wrong with the bite!! It’s not their expertise at all. She should focus on relaxing your muscles but not give you or the dentist any “ideas” of where your bite should be. I feel this is wrong. The osteo whom I saw and who knew the whole body, all the muscles, bones very well showed to me in his numerous books what he could find in regards to my tmj-muscle question (I forgot what it was then). And there was practically nothing specific there!
TL, I know it's less stable w/o the teeth. I try holding the sides of my face (the chewing muscles from tmj to the chin) with my palms not allowing them to skew the jaw to one side and go all around. It still can "lift" unevenly but it does help to relax them. Of course, I can't do much like this but I can't do much of anything anyway. I also found that instead of using my palms wearing ear-muffs at home helps to even out the joints by placing some pressure on these muscles.
The new dentist asked $427 for a splint. It's the lowest charge I had for the splints though this one is more like an NTI which I heard is about $300-400. I am really afraid to turn him away since so far it all went almost too good to be true. He is about 1 hour from me but it's pretty easy to get there.
TL, did you decide about your bro? I know this would be a really tough one for me: I tend to put other people ahead... Just need to remind myself all the time what they say in the airplane: "If the oxygen masks fall down, place the mask on yourself first, then assist those sitting next to you".
Do I remember my comfort zone?? Yes and no. I do remember how it was when I was comfy with my natural fronts. But I know now that my backs were messed up, and I do not remember anything what I felt before that, i.e. 20 years ago! Just never felt that I had any jaw joints or a bite!!
What I meant by being able to have a stable position of the jaw was my semi-conscious effort in keeping the jaw and the posture in a position which I obtained few times when I managed to relax fully for few hours.
This "stable" position was easily ruined if I'd do anything requiring more concentration than very routine things. But this kind of living was still better than being in continuous pain so it was worse the effort and restrictions.
I do feel too, TL that finding the plane, i.e. the left-right, front-back level parallel to the joints is the hardest thing. Ideally they should be able to get this if they do a very careful "bow transfer". I joked with the new dentist that I was told that I need a bow, that they want to use the "bow and arrow" on me. But when they will adjust what they make using the bow transfer and the muscles spasm, this all can be ruined in a moment. This is why being able to relax the jaw muscles when in a dental office is so crucial! I wish I knew how to achieve it!!
Thelma-Louise
01-22-2009, 01:04 AM
Boy do I understand how long it takes to do things with tmj - I usually try and do 2-3 things per my list every day but am lucky I get one done - it took me 5 hrs to wash a carpet today with a steam cleaner - do a little, stop and rest, do a little stop and rest, etc. But again - if I find a spot where my mouth is left open - I can get the joints to feel even - and I can at least do some things while in this "mode" but as soon as I close my mouth the fun begins.
You are so right about things getting runied in a moment no matter how careful the bow transfer is done. With my 2nd dentist, he had the right side pretty comfy - almost back as good as new but b/c the left was still askew, he fiddled with the right side (I love that logic, don't you?) and I literally yelled at him "what did you do that for, now you ruined it" and he said oh I can fix it, so then he adjusted the left side - and the roller coaster started all over again.
That's not a bad price for a splint - I had one made for $1K and one for $1500 - those were the 2 most expensive so far (TG my health ins back then paid for them), the rest were around $300 -$400.
Well I left it with my bro that he needed to ask his SIL to do a few days and I would do a few days - he said he would get back to me - he said his SIL is flightly and can't be relied on - so what, I am better even though I don't feel good? Its OK to impose on me instead of her? - but he knows I won't say no. It bothers me that think I am just siting at home eating bon bons and watching tv - happy as can be - when I can barely watch tv b/c the sound bothers me and I can't focus or concentrate on anything longer than 10 -15mins at a stretch. They have no clue how much effort it takes to live somewhat normally - I guess the act I do, pretending "its getting better" must be pretty good, huh? If so, I guess then I have no one else to blame then myself for their lack of understanding. Not that they want to understand it to begin with. Stillhope - my friends and family say the same thing - "you need to do something for yourself to feel better" - but the only thing I can come up with is - well, yeah they shoot horses, don't they?
I have heard the same thing from dentists - what, your teeth are exposed, for how long? - why would they think that is any worse than having crowns that are causing severe pain and muscle spasms? One guy said - oh, you are going to lose them if you keep that up - I said -oh, I am going to pull them if the pain doesn't stop soon 'cause I can't live like this much longer. Do they think we are just being dramatic or what?
I llike the bow and arrow comment - that sounds like something I would say to a dr.
Well - tomrrow is another day. LTC - are you going back to the chiro again one more time this week? Or are you going to limit it to once a week - or haven't you decided whether to go back or not?
You are so right about things getting runied in a moment no matter how careful the bow transfer is done. With my 2nd dentist, he had the right side pretty comfy - almost back as good as new but b/c the left was still askew, he fiddled with the right side (I love that logic, don't you?) and I literally yelled at him "what did you do that for, now you ruined it" and he said oh I can fix it, so then he adjusted the left side - and the roller coaster started all over again.
That's not a bad price for a splint - I had one made for $1K and one for $1500 - those were the 2 most expensive so far (TG my health ins back then paid for them), the rest were around $300 -$400.
Well I left it with my bro that he needed to ask his SIL to do a few days and I would do a few days - he said he would get back to me - he said his SIL is flightly and can't be relied on - so what, I am better even though I don't feel good? Its OK to impose on me instead of her? - but he knows I won't say no. It bothers me that think I am just siting at home eating bon bons and watching tv - happy as can be - when I can barely watch tv b/c the sound bothers me and I can't focus or concentrate on anything longer than 10 -15mins at a stretch. They have no clue how much effort it takes to live somewhat normally - I guess the act I do, pretending "its getting better" must be pretty good, huh? If so, I guess then I have no one else to blame then myself for their lack of understanding. Not that they want to understand it to begin with. Stillhope - my friends and family say the same thing - "you need to do something for yourself to feel better" - but the only thing I can come up with is - well, yeah they shoot horses, don't they?
I have heard the same thing from dentists - what, your teeth are exposed, for how long? - why would they think that is any worse than having crowns that are causing severe pain and muscle spasms? One guy said - oh, you are going to lose them if you keep that up - I said -oh, I am going to pull them if the pain doesn't stop soon 'cause I can't live like this much longer. Do they think we are just being dramatic or what?
I llike the bow and arrow comment - that sounds like something I would say to a dr.
Well - tomrrow is another day. LTC - are you going back to the chiro again one more time this week? Or are you going to limit it to once a week - or haven't you decided whether to go back or not?
luvtocamp
01-22-2009, 09:05 AM
Boy alot to read this am, I write more in the am and you two at night. When yous are writing I'm in bed.
What is bow transfer? I can see leaving the teeth exposed isn't good , but at this point doing a permanent crown is not good either if they are not sure of your bite.
People don't understand and personally if I wasn't having a problem like this, I wouldn't understand either. Mainly I would go out and eat with my friends, but as you know thats out of the question. and why don't you do something to help yourself- well we are trying, its not like we like this. The people that really know me, know I'm not a slouch and lazy, so they know, but my neighbor lady just can't understand why I don't play scrabble with her anymore, and she just can't understand "why no one can make me a denture"
Then I think some people think I'm a nut case and hypochrondriate, and have psychological problems, I wonder that myself sometimes!!!
Stillhope- that was a good price for the splint.Most of mine have been $600 and then lets add the splint adjustments- no I don't want to, I get depressed just thinking about it and all the money spent on this. I sure hope your new splint helps you, I can't wait for you to get it and TL's.
Oh I'll tell my husband we tell each other everything, but he doesn't understand how it feels like yous do. So I quit trying to explain it to him and he knows I don't feel well.
But you both know how things happen, seems like I got roped in- I mean it was like you are going to become our patient, but they were and are well meaning I'm sure and I don't feel its all about money.
Stillhope- your dentist is an hour away, oh my, see thats a long way for me. I have a hard time getting to the grocery store so I wanted someone in town. But TL- remember I use to drive myself to Hastings (60 miles one way), and now I have a hard time driving at all again since returning to my present dentist.
TL- how far is your brother from you?? I hope this isn't going to be too hard on you. I guess a few days, bring your meds. I know people think we sit home and do nothing, but its hard to do anything, I space my housework out, and also take frequent rests. My carpet needs a cleaning, I have a old hoover cleaner- thats a big job cleaning your carpet, I also use the dyson granules and they seem to work well-more like a dry cleaning.
I hope that one girl calls me today, I'm curious how she is doing, not well I'm thinking.
What is bow transfer? I can see leaving the teeth exposed isn't good , but at this point doing a permanent crown is not good either if they are not sure of your bite.
People don't understand and personally if I wasn't having a problem like this, I wouldn't understand either. Mainly I would go out and eat with my friends, but as you know thats out of the question. and why don't you do something to help yourself- well we are trying, its not like we like this. The people that really know me, know I'm not a slouch and lazy, so they know, but my neighbor lady just can't understand why I don't play scrabble with her anymore, and she just can't understand "why no one can make me a denture"
Then I think some people think I'm a nut case and hypochrondriate, and have psychological problems, I wonder that myself sometimes!!!
Stillhope- that was a good price for the splint.Most of mine have been $600 and then lets add the splint adjustments- no I don't want to, I get depressed just thinking about it and all the money spent on this. I sure hope your new splint helps you, I can't wait for you to get it and TL's.
Oh I'll tell my husband we tell each other everything, but he doesn't understand how it feels like yous do. So I quit trying to explain it to him and he knows I don't feel well.
But you both know how things happen, seems like I got roped in- I mean it was like you are going to become our patient, but they were and are well meaning I'm sure and I don't feel its all about money.
Stillhope- your dentist is an hour away, oh my, see thats a long way for me. I have a hard time getting to the grocery store so I wanted someone in town. But TL- remember I use to drive myself to Hastings (60 miles one way), and now I have a hard time driving at all again since returning to my present dentist.
TL- how far is your brother from you?? I hope this isn't going to be too hard on you. I guess a few days, bring your meds. I know people think we sit home and do nothing, but its hard to do anything, I space my housework out, and also take frequent rests. My carpet needs a cleaning, I have a old hoover cleaner- thats a big job cleaning your carpet, I also use the dyson granules and they seem to work well-more like a dry cleaning.
I hope that one girl calls me today, I'm curious how she is doing, not well I'm thinking.
Thelma-Louise
01-22-2009, 11:06 AM
The bow transfer - is that head gear they put on your head/face and it lines up the bridge of your nose and midline with the chin and has a bite plate on it to do a bite register - it attahces with the ear inserts and then they adjust some screw on it - you probably had one just didn't know the name of it.
I'm up early huh? Some mornings - guess its when my meds have worn off - if I become too conscious of how my jaw and teeth are not aligned or I become aware of the discomfort I am in in the closed positon - I just can't sleep and start getting ansty and agitated - so its better to just get up early hoping that tomorrow I will probably make up for the lack of sleep today. I was up by 7:30 this morning.
I don't think a bite adjustment is going to help if your denture has your bite too forward and the teeth are just too big for you - that's kind of what I have going on with the last 2 sets of teeth I had - at one point remember I wondered what he could he be adjusting when the teeth didn't even feel like they fit in my mouth. So maybe that is what those 2 dentists are kind of saying - do a bite adjustment on what? - they don't fit in right. It probably would not make you feel any more comfortable. But I have the same issue in terms of being able to discern what is wrong when I have the over denture in - its all so connected - if the front teeth aren't where they should be then the back teeth may feel like they hit incorrectly and if the teeth are too big and you are struggling to stretch your muscles around them then you can end up with one side or the other not aligning or or your palate pushed higher or lower on one side to try and accomodate the denture plate.
I do remember you were driving more before this - not being able to drive is not a good sign as you know - my driving has gotten better so I know I am going in the right direction at this point - turns and changing lanes don't make me dizzy and lightheaded anymore and I can turn my head now to check other lanes or what is behind me - and I noticed the other day I am driving much faster again - whereas before I was having a hard time even driving at the speed limit.
I have the Hoover too - bought it almost 20 yrs ago but I only use it once a year, if that. The carpet downstairs was just so filthy though - the last tenents had a problem with not being able to keep their coffee in their cups - there were huge stains throughout the apt not to mention coffee splatters on the walls, doors, and cabinets. I was only able to get one room done yesterday and have 2 more to go and then the apt is done although my BIL needs to come over and fix the kitchen table - they broke a peice off the leaf of it and a closet door - they removed it from the runner and I can not get back on.
My bro is about 3 - 3 1/2 hrs from me - its a drive - at first when I reminded him I had the dogs and didn't want to pay $250 to put them in the kennel for a week - I figured that would be excuse enough - he said he understood but then called me back later and said bring the dogs and they will put their cats with a friend. So then I told him a whole week is just too much for me. They have asked me several time to go on vacation with them - but I told them I can not fly with this condition or problem - they really have no concept of what I have been going through. It just bothers me though that they obviously don't think its disabling enough for them not to ask me for favors. At one point when he was complaining that his SIL is very into herself and self serving b/c she is single - I said to him well I am single and yeah I am self serving too - remember when you are single you are responsible for EVERYTHING around the house and more - there is no spouse to help out - so you try doing everything that needs to get done that you and your wife both share at this point and then tell me if you're not selfish with your time, too.
Well we are getting a break today and tomorrow from the bitter cold so I need to run a few errands now and take the dogs for a walk while I can - its going back down into the 20's over the weekend and through most of next week and I won't go out in that if I can help it.
How are you feeling BTW - did you keep the teeth out overnight?
I'm up early huh? Some mornings - guess its when my meds have worn off - if I become too conscious of how my jaw and teeth are not aligned or I become aware of the discomfort I am in in the closed positon - I just can't sleep and start getting ansty and agitated - so its better to just get up early hoping that tomorrow I will probably make up for the lack of sleep today. I was up by 7:30 this morning.
I don't think a bite adjustment is going to help if your denture has your bite too forward and the teeth are just too big for you - that's kind of what I have going on with the last 2 sets of teeth I had - at one point remember I wondered what he could he be adjusting when the teeth didn't even feel like they fit in my mouth. So maybe that is what those 2 dentists are kind of saying - do a bite adjustment on what? - they don't fit in right. It probably would not make you feel any more comfortable. But I have the same issue in terms of being able to discern what is wrong when I have the over denture in - its all so connected - if the front teeth aren't where they should be then the back teeth may feel like they hit incorrectly and if the teeth are too big and you are struggling to stretch your muscles around them then you can end up with one side or the other not aligning or or your palate pushed higher or lower on one side to try and accomodate the denture plate.
I do remember you were driving more before this - not being able to drive is not a good sign as you know - my driving has gotten better so I know I am going in the right direction at this point - turns and changing lanes don't make me dizzy and lightheaded anymore and I can turn my head now to check other lanes or what is behind me - and I noticed the other day I am driving much faster again - whereas before I was having a hard time even driving at the speed limit.
I have the Hoover too - bought it almost 20 yrs ago but I only use it once a year, if that. The carpet downstairs was just so filthy though - the last tenents had a problem with not being able to keep their coffee in their cups - there were huge stains throughout the apt not to mention coffee splatters on the walls, doors, and cabinets. I was only able to get one room done yesterday and have 2 more to go and then the apt is done although my BIL needs to come over and fix the kitchen table - they broke a peice off the leaf of it and a closet door - they removed it from the runner and I can not get back on.
My bro is about 3 - 3 1/2 hrs from me - its a drive - at first when I reminded him I had the dogs and didn't want to pay $250 to put them in the kennel for a week - I figured that would be excuse enough - he said he understood but then called me back later and said bring the dogs and they will put their cats with a friend. So then I told him a whole week is just too much for me. They have asked me several time to go on vacation with them - but I told them I can not fly with this condition or problem - they really have no concept of what I have been going through. It just bothers me though that they obviously don't think its disabling enough for them not to ask me for favors. At one point when he was complaining that his SIL is very into herself and self serving b/c she is single - I said to him well I am single and yeah I am self serving too - remember when you are single you are responsible for EVERYTHING around the house and more - there is no spouse to help out - so you try doing everything that needs to get done that you and your wife both share at this point and then tell me if you're not selfish with your time, too.
Well we are getting a break today and tomorrow from the bitter cold so I need to run a few errands now and take the dogs for a walk while I can - its going back down into the 20's over the weekend and through most of next week and I won't go out in that if I can help it.
How are you feeling BTW - did you keep the teeth out overnight?
luvtocamp
01-22-2009, 11:36 AM
Oh you got up early, you were up so late, you must not of got much sleep.
Just doing paper work, dont talk coffee, carried my coffee from the kitchen to computer awhile ago and spilt several drops, so I know how that is!
My knee is hurting, noticed it before the osteo yesterday, don't know if its because he yanked on my leg or bent my legs up but nerver hurt before, I am just so out of shape.
Well that is a drive, that is a good sign you can drive like that. That is a sign your doing better and it seems you are more active now too like over the holidays you cooked alot and that. Oh I hope it isn't too bad, he just doesn't realize or he wouldn't of asked. Why do people think that single people are self serving, my husband has two single friends and I remind him that they need to do their own laundry, food shopping, bill paying, housework and cooking, cuz he wonders why they can't work more than 40 hours a week. He gets to come home and sit!! So yeah, married people are maybe more self-centered!!
I know before I started seeing my present dentist I was walking a mile on my treadmill, sewing, playing scrabble, driving, and after two months it all ended, till after several months I pretty much stayed in bed and thats when I went and had new dentures made that and seeing the new osteo, then she wanted me back to my dentist and well here I am again. I never really got back to where I was before I started seeing him.
Man at this point I don't know anymore, I don't really know if I remember how my teeth were, except I never had to think about them. Oh wouldn't that be nice, not thinking about your teeth for at least a whole day.
You still smoking , I am, I see they are going to or vote on raising the federal tax on cigs around 70cents a pack, its really a big incentive to quit, and I see alot of states are going to raise the tax too.
Yes I've been leaving them out at night, I am waiting for that girl to call, I'm so curious,
hope its today. I'll keep you posted.
Just doing paper work, dont talk coffee, carried my coffee from the kitchen to computer awhile ago and spilt several drops, so I know how that is!
My knee is hurting, noticed it before the osteo yesterday, don't know if its because he yanked on my leg or bent my legs up but nerver hurt before, I am just so out of shape.
Well that is a drive, that is a good sign you can drive like that. That is a sign your doing better and it seems you are more active now too like over the holidays you cooked alot and that. Oh I hope it isn't too bad, he just doesn't realize or he wouldn't of asked. Why do people think that single people are self serving, my husband has two single friends and I remind him that they need to do their own laundry, food shopping, bill paying, housework and cooking, cuz he wonders why they can't work more than 40 hours a week. He gets to come home and sit!! So yeah, married people are maybe more self-centered!!
I know before I started seeing my present dentist I was walking a mile on my treadmill, sewing, playing scrabble, driving, and after two months it all ended, till after several months I pretty much stayed in bed and thats when I went and had new dentures made that and seeing the new osteo, then she wanted me back to my dentist and well here I am again. I never really got back to where I was before I started seeing him.
Man at this point I don't know anymore, I don't really know if I remember how my teeth were, except I never had to think about them. Oh wouldn't that be nice, not thinking about your teeth for at least a whole day.
You still smoking , I am, I see they are going to or vote on raising the federal tax on cigs around 70cents a pack, its really a big incentive to quit, and I see alot of states are going to raise the tax too.
Yes I've been leaving them out at night, I am waiting for that girl to call, I'm so curious,
hope its today. I'll keep you posted.
StillHope
01-22-2009, 04:11 PM
LTC, you write [And I surely didnt mean to badmouth my present dentist, but everything he does makes me worst it seems, but I don't know if its him or me as I feel hes trying.] It is NOT you for sure!!!
I think that if the new dentist is kind of disregarding your current dentist is actually a good sign. This shows his independence and responsibility for his treatment. From all that you said so far he seems to be a good choice. Yes, not every dental set can be adjusted! It is often easier to make it new from scratch than adjust a bad work. I'd really try the new dentist since you are not loosing anything at this point (you'll still have what you have now).
TL, I just laugh again over your messages since you use my exact words.
E.g. this one: [but the only thing I can come up with is - well, yeah they shoot horses, don't they?]
You know I had more fun related to the bow and arrow. Once my local dentist even gave me his BR gun to take a BR at home. I immediately put it to my temples and took a photo. Shortly after that I was in my friend's lab and another guy (who saw me few times in many years) asked about my progress. I said that I tried shooting myself with a gun. After few seconds of horror on his face he pointed out to the same BR gun. Then I said that they tried the electric shock (tensing) on me, tried the gun and even the bow and arrow. He said: "they should have tried a guillotine -- it will help! " :D
I also like this one: [...they think I am just sitting at home eating bon bons and watching tv - happy as can be] - it's exactly what I see people thinking about me.
Oh, BTW, forgot to tell you what the chiro asked me when filling in the forms: "Are you married or happy?" I really liked this one!;)
Well, back to our bites. So, don't close your mouth!! ;) I think it's one of the reasons that when I see people I can't stop talking or widely smiling b/c otherwise it hurts too much. This way I force my muscles to work as if I have nothing wrong with the bite. Well, as soon as this is over I get it all for sure!!
And this one is exactly what I had few times too: [he had the right side pretty comfy - almost back as good as new but b/c the left was still askew, he fiddled with the right side (I love that logic, don't you?)]
Yah, I like this logic! And I even know WHY they do this, it's very simple: they can ONLY file down easily, and they cannot create or "get it back".
For me now this is an immediate sign to quit such dentist!!
This is why I try to keep what I have as bad as it is untouched by a dentist and let them do only reversible things. BUT the last dentist managed to mess up everything while promising to me that he won't "touch anything". There is no foolproof against liars!!:(
I think that if the new dentist is kind of disregarding your current dentist is actually a good sign. This shows his independence and responsibility for his treatment. From all that you said so far he seems to be a good choice. Yes, not every dental set can be adjusted! It is often easier to make it new from scratch than adjust a bad work. I'd really try the new dentist since you are not loosing anything at this point (you'll still have what you have now).
TL, I just laugh again over your messages since you use my exact words.
E.g. this one: [but the only thing I can come up with is - well, yeah they shoot horses, don't they?]
You know I had more fun related to the bow and arrow. Once my local dentist even gave me his BR gun to take a BR at home. I immediately put it to my temples and took a photo. Shortly after that I was in my friend's lab and another guy (who saw me few times in many years) asked about my progress. I said that I tried shooting myself with a gun. After few seconds of horror on his face he pointed out to the same BR gun. Then I said that they tried the electric shock (tensing) on me, tried the gun and even the bow and arrow. He said: "they should have tried a guillotine -- it will help! " :D
I also like this one: [...they think I am just sitting at home eating bon bons and watching tv - happy as can be] - it's exactly what I see people thinking about me.
Oh, BTW, forgot to tell you what the chiro asked me when filling in the forms: "Are you married or happy?" I really liked this one!;)
Well, back to our bites. So, don't close your mouth!! ;) I think it's one of the reasons that when I see people I can't stop talking or widely smiling b/c otherwise it hurts too much. This way I force my muscles to work as if I have nothing wrong with the bite. Well, as soon as this is over I get it all for sure!!
And this one is exactly what I had few times too: [he had the right side pretty comfy - almost back as good as new but b/c the left was still askew, he fiddled with the right side (I love that logic, don't you?)]
Yah, I like this logic! And I even know WHY they do this, it's very simple: they can ONLY file down easily, and they cannot create or "get it back".
For me now this is an immediate sign to quit such dentist!!
This is why I try to keep what I have as bad as it is untouched by a dentist and let them do only reversible things. BUT the last dentist managed to mess up everything while promising to me that he won't "touch anything". There is no foolproof against liars!!:(
luvtocamp
01-22-2009, 06:06 PM
[but the only thing I can come up with is - well, yeah they shoot horses, don't they?]
yep, I chuckled at that one too, cuz I have thought that myself, and now if this new dentist and his dad can't fix me, I may as well be set out to graze.
When is your splint coming Stillhope, next week didn't you say. I bet you half excited and half nervous thinking about it.
\
"Are you married or happy?" shows he has a sense of humor. Is he divorced?
I do the same as you, smile and talk normal and pay for it later. Lately I look at people and wonder if they have pain.
[he had the right side pretty comfy - almost back as good as new but b/c the left was still askew, he fiddled with the right side (I love that logic, don't you?)]
Well my first tmj dentist said the problem is usually on the opposite side of one in pain- I'm not sure that one made sense to me.
Well Ladies- talk is cheap- we want to see action and postive results now. I heard " I can have you eating steak in 3 months , oh yes we can fix you up" before.
TL- just think any day now your splints may be boarding the plane, shoot they may be in the air as we speak.
yep, I chuckled at that one too, cuz I have thought that myself, and now if this new dentist and his dad can't fix me, I may as well be set out to graze.
When is your splint coming Stillhope, next week didn't you say. I bet you half excited and half nervous thinking about it.
\
"Are you married or happy?" shows he has a sense of humor. Is he divorced?
I do the same as you, smile and talk normal and pay for it later. Lately I look at people and wonder if they have pain.
[he had the right side pretty comfy - almost back as good as new but b/c the left was still askew, he fiddled with the right side (I love that logic, don't you?)]
Well my first tmj dentist said the problem is usually on the opposite side of one in pain- I'm not sure that one made sense to me.
Well Ladies- talk is cheap- we want to see action and postive results now. I heard " I can have you eating steak in 3 months , oh yes we can fix you up" before.
TL- just think any day now your splints may be boarding the plane, shoot they may be in the air as we speak.
nrcitygal
02-15-2009, 09:18 PM
Has anyone tried the Silent Nite guard?
It's for snoring, but it acts like a herpst device (orthodontic thing)
and pulls jaw forward so its not stressing on the jaw joint while you sleep.....
If you have tried it what did you think?
It's for snoring, but it acts like a herpst device (orthodontic thing)
and pulls jaw forward so its not stressing on the jaw joint while you sleep.....
If you have tried it what did you think?