DickETicka
01-26-2009, 06:44 PM
Well that's a bit of a mouth full isn't it !!
I never questioned years of occasional light headedness and dizzy spells when standing too quickly (usually after tying laces etc), I just put it down to getting older (I'm still only 43), anyhoo, about five years ago I noticed that when I was relaxed in the evenings, especially when lying on my back, that I skipped beats :dizzy:, aaagh .
So I immediately made an appointment and went to the docs, who said it was nothing to worry about, happens all the time to young fit people (I excercise regularly, cycling upto 100 miles a week), so I relaxed, cut out ALL cafeine including chocolate and things returned to normal.
However, there's more, early last year, symptoms returned with a vegeance, to the extent that I could gaurantee dropping beats if I laid on my back. It has now got to the point where I know when the dropped beat is going to happen, and I feel, what I can only describe as a lump in my throat followed by the thump in my ear.
So back to the docs, who this time hooked me upto a 24Hour ECG, sure enough, when relaxed, dropped beats.
I was diagnosed with the above mouthfull in April, again, the consultant said not to worry, it's common in young fit people, the only treatment is a pace maker :confused:, but he'd only recommend one if I started having Syncopic episodes (blacking out), or if I still have them to age 45.
I haven't had a blackout yet, but my resting heart rate is between 55-60, I'd better not get any fitter ;), but I'm not too far off 45.
My problem now is, that I am now feeling the skipped beats all the time, probably 1 every 10 mins, even now typing this i've noticed 2 or 3, so should I just carry on and ignore them, am I putting myself at risk, I'd rather not have a pace maker, but I don't want to exasperate the problem.
It would be great to here from similar folk
Thanks for reading
Dick
I never questioned years of occasional light headedness and dizzy spells when standing too quickly (usually after tying laces etc), I just put it down to getting older (I'm still only 43), anyhoo, about five years ago I noticed that when I was relaxed in the evenings, especially when lying on my back, that I skipped beats :dizzy:, aaagh .
So I immediately made an appointment and went to the docs, who said it was nothing to worry about, happens all the time to young fit people (I excercise regularly, cycling upto 100 miles a week), so I relaxed, cut out ALL cafeine including chocolate and things returned to normal.
However, there's more, early last year, symptoms returned with a vegeance, to the extent that I could gaurantee dropping beats if I laid on my back. It has now got to the point where I know when the dropped beat is going to happen, and I feel, what I can only describe as a lump in my throat followed by the thump in my ear.
So back to the docs, who this time hooked me upto a 24Hour ECG, sure enough, when relaxed, dropped beats.
I was diagnosed with the above mouthfull in April, again, the consultant said not to worry, it's common in young fit people, the only treatment is a pace maker :confused:, but he'd only recommend one if I started having Syncopic episodes (blacking out), or if I still have them to age 45.
I haven't had a blackout yet, but my resting heart rate is between 55-60, I'd better not get any fitter ;), but I'm not too far off 45.
My problem now is, that I am now feeling the skipped beats all the time, probably 1 every 10 mins, even now typing this i've noticed 2 or 3, so should I just carry on and ignore them, am I putting myself at risk, I'd rather not have a pace maker, but I don't want to exasperate the problem.
It would be great to here from similar folk
Thanks for reading
Dick
Sponsor
Kfrancis
02-08-2009, 03:55 PM
Hello,
I read your post about your condition. My daughter, 16, was just diagnosed with Mobitz type I wenckebach after passing out during a basketball game on Friday night. She has been complaining of lightheadedness, dizziness, headaches and lumps in her throat for months..... I thought she was lacking sleep, anemic, and a typical teenager until she passed out. We are now in the stage where the specialists are testing. I have been looking online for a treatment because the doctors haven't offered much yet. What has been your treatment, if any? I hope you are on your way to wellness.
I read your post about your condition. My daughter, 16, was just diagnosed with Mobitz type I wenckebach after passing out during a basketball game on Friday night. She has been complaining of lightheadedness, dizziness, headaches and lumps in her throat for months..... I thought she was lacking sleep, anemic, and a typical teenager until she passed out. We are now in the stage where the specialists are testing. I have been looking online for a treatment because the doctors haven't offered much yet. What has been your treatment, if any? I hope you are on your way to wellness.
DickETicka
02-09-2009, 06:07 PM
I was begining to think I was the only person to have been diagnosed with this ;)
I take it your daughter has had an EKG/ECG to verify Wenckebach ?
The only treatment for SOME Second degree heart block and ALL Third degree heartblock is a pacemaker.
Pacemakers for Second degree block are generally only recommended if the patient has bad symptoms i.e. Tiredness, fatigue, fainting, black outs (syncopes).
It's important to verify the difference between second degree and third degree, the latter being more serious, an EKG/ECG will verify this.
It's common in young fit people, especially teenagers, and generally needs no treatment, just monitoring.
Obviously if your daughter is blacking out, you may have to consider pacing, but I'll leave that to the experts, I may need to consider it too someday.
Does your daughter have a very low resting heart rate ?
Symptoms usually occur when resting, or "taking your foot of the gas", anything less than 45 can cause faintness.
Common medications for heart block include atropine and isoproterenol. These drugs may be used in the short-term to treat a slow heart rate that causes symptoms, but second and third degree heart block may be unresponsive to atropine.
Sorry, it's probably not what you wanted to hear, but there doesn't seem to be a quick "pill" to take, not that I've found yet anyway.
Hope everything works out for you both, keep me posted
Dick
P.S. I could point you to some good websites, but the forum police don't allow me to add website links
I take it your daughter has had an EKG/ECG to verify Wenckebach ?
The only treatment for SOME Second degree heart block and ALL Third degree heartblock is a pacemaker.
Pacemakers for Second degree block are generally only recommended if the patient has bad symptoms i.e. Tiredness, fatigue, fainting, black outs (syncopes).
It's important to verify the difference between second degree and third degree, the latter being more serious, an EKG/ECG will verify this.
It's common in young fit people, especially teenagers, and generally needs no treatment, just monitoring.
Obviously if your daughter is blacking out, you may have to consider pacing, but I'll leave that to the experts, I may need to consider it too someday.
Does your daughter have a very low resting heart rate ?
Symptoms usually occur when resting, or "taking your foot of the gas", anything less than 45 can cause faintness.
Common medications for heart block include atropine and isoproterenol. These drugs may be used in the short-term to treat a slow heart rate that causes symptoms, but second and third degree heart block may be unresponsive to atropine.
Sorry, it's probably not what you wanted to hear, but there doesn't seem to be a quick "pill" to take, not that I've found yet anyway.
Hope everything works out for you both, keep me posted
Dick
P.S. I could point you to some good websites, but the forum police don't allow me to add website links
sam78
02-09-2009, 06:20 PM
Hi Dick, I recently went through a period where I was in wenkebach. I was dropping a beat every 3 beat I had. I was told the same thing as you, if I wasnt passing out then they were just going to watch it. It got quite annoying because you felt like someone was punching you every other beat but eventually once my anxiety from having it went away, I was able to cope with it and just eventually forgot about it. There are times when certainly I have stronger palpitations then normal, but it does gett better with time. Good thing to know is at least your heart rate increases and goes to a normal rhythm when you are up and about. It is those patients that are in that rhythm 100% of the day that end up getting the pacemaker.
DickETicka
02-09-2009, 06:43 PM
Thanks for the reply Sam.
Yeah, I agree totally with the anxiety, when I first discovered this, I made it 10 times worse, through constantly "waiting for it to happen", it got a lot better when I could just ignore it.
Trouble is, it's hard to ignore sometimes, it's annoying more than anything, but it doesn't stop me from doing anything.
Incedently, chilling out over Christmas, and a new year holiday on the beach, seem to have made it worse :( , so if I'm reading this right, don't get too fit and don't chill out too much ...... no symptoms ...... urgh, you just can't win sometimes :)
D
Yeah, I agree totally with the anxiety, when I first discovered this, I made it 10 times worse, through constantly "waiting for it to happen", it got a lot better when I could just ignore it.
Trouble is, it's hard to ignore sometimes, it's annoying more than anything, but it doesn't stop me from doing anything.
Incedently, chilling out over Christmas, and a new year holiday on the beach, seem to have made it worse :( , so if I'm reading this right, don't get too fit and don't chill out too much ...... no symptoms ...... urgh, you just can't win sometimes :)
D
iliketorun
02-16-2009, 03:19 PM
Hey DickET
I have pretty much the same thing. I supposed you have read up on "athletic heart syndrome". I have had stray palpitations on and off most of my adult life and got used to just ignoring them. Three years ago I started running. Recently they have gotten worse. I did a really hard run a month ago and sent myself into atrial fibrillation right after it, I panicked, drove to my doctor, she called 911, ER all that stuff, 48 hr monitor. The report came back with "frequent runs of Wenckebach". The cardiologist said it was good that I had that as it kept the atrial fibrillation from going nuts. Anyway, after doing lots of reading, I think I get more of these dropped beats when I have been running a lot or increasing my mileage alot. And, exactly as you describe, when lying down, turning on my side, bending down to tie my shoes. Coughing will sometimes set it normal again, or I just wait.
But, just a few days ago, after a run, while doing some easy stuff on an exercise bike, they started up. I don't usually get them during exercise. Stupid me I went and stretched and lay down to stretch and that really got it going. Seemed like every third beat was dropped. I stayed calm this time as I didn't want to send my self into a panic and it went away, until after I changed and was tying my shoes, it came back again. Then it persisted during the whole drive home, about ten minutes. So just the sitting position in the car was keeping it going. Once I got out of the car and walked around it went to normal. It is so annoying. I want to run but seems like when I start doing a lot of mileage, my heart gets more sensitive to this. I cut out all caffeine and alchohol (the latter really made them more common). My doc said, maybe when I was 65 I'd need a pacemaker. I think 45 is too young, that is my age!
Anyway, nice to know a fellow wenckebacher.
I have pretty much the same thing. I supposed you have read up on "athletic heart syndrome". I have had stray palpitations on and off most of my adult life and got used to just ignoring them. Three years ago I started running. Recently they have gotten worse. I did a really hard run a month ago and sent myself into atrial fibrillation right after it, I panicked, drove to my doctor, she called 911, ER all that stuff, 48 hr monitor. The report came back with "frequent runs of Wenckebach". The cardiologist said it was good that I had that as it kept the atrial fibrillation from going nuts. Anyway, after doing lots of reading, I think I get more of these dropped beats when I have been running a lot or increasing my mileage alot. And, exactly as you describe, when lying down, turning on my side, bending down to tie my shoes. Coughing will sometimes set it normal again, or I just wait.
But, just a few days ago, after a run, while doing some easy stuff on an exercise bike, they started up. I don't usually get them during exercise. Stupid me I went and stretched and lay down to stretch and that really got it going. Seemed like every third beat was dropped. I stayed calm this time as I didn't want to send my self into a panic and it went away, until after I changed and was tying my shoes, it came back again. Then it persisted during the whole drive home, about ten minutes. So just the sitting position in the car was keeping it going. Once I got out of the car and walked around it went to normal. It is so annoying. I want to run but seems like when I start doing a lot of mileage, my heart gets more sensitive to this. I cut out all caffeine and alchohol (the latter really made them more common). My doc said, maybe when I was 65 I'd need a pacemaker. I think 45 is too young, that is my age!
Anyway, nice to know a fellow wenckebacher.
zekat
02-17-2009, 09:45 AM
>>so if I'm reading this right, don't get too fit and don't chill out too much<< :D
I have nothing to add to this conversation, really, but I am very interested by it. I recently started getting palpitations, just as you describe... right when I "take off the gas". I'll go about my day and just as I sit down to relax, boom - every 3rd or 4th beat feels like it's dropped. Of course I completely freaked out the first week or so because I was getting runs of them for a few hours when I'd try to relax at night. My doctor did an EKG that was essentially normal and sent me to a cardiologist. I had and echo done and a stress test. He said both were very good. I'm currently wearing a 30 day event monitor and recording the palpitations as they happen. They've been a TON better lately. However, a few days ago I had several drinks and woke up with these skipped beats (urgh).
I am wondering how you were diagnosed with Wenckebach? I've come to the conclusion that my palpitations have to do with my low heart rate (average of 55, but I've seen it as low as 41 on a few occasions). It's like my body misfires as my rate is coming down or something. I'm in pretty good cardio condition as I workout 5-6 days a week for 45 minutes (I, too, have never had a palp during exercise). However, I am overweight by a good 25 pounds (urgh!). I'm a very upbeat, but frustrated person. I also have issues with my thyroid (It was killed with RAI to treat Graves several years ago) so I've theorized that maybe some of those hormones stay low, which causes my low heart rate, which causes my palpitations? Urgh. Who knows. I'm anxious to get the results back of my event monitor, but wonder if it will be enough to diagnose anything?
I have nothing to add to this conversation, really, but I am very interested by it. I recently started getting palpitations, just as you describe... right when I "take off the gas". I'll go about my day and just as I sit down to relax, boom - every 3rd or 4th beat feels like it's dropped. Of course I completely freaked out the first week or so because I was getting runs of them for a few hours when I'd try to relax at night. My doctor did an EKG that was essentially normal and sent me to a cardiologist. I had and echo done and a stress test. He said both were very good. I'm currently wearing a 30 day event monitor and recording the palpitations as they happen. They've been a TON better lately. However, a few days ago I had several drinks and woke up with these skipped beats (urgh).
I am wondering how you were diagnosed with Wenckebach? I've come to the conclusion that my palpitations have to do with my low heart rate (average of 55, but I've seen it as low as 41 on a few occasions). It's like my body misfires as my rate is coming down or something. I'm in pretty good cardio condition as I workout 5-6 days a week for 45 minutes (I, too, have never had a palp during exercise). However, I am overweight by a good 25 pounds (urgh!). I'm a very upbeat, but frustrated person. I also have issues with my thyroid (It was killed with RAI to treat Graves several years ago) so I've theorized that maybe some of those hormones stay low, which causes my low heart rate, which causes my palpitations? Urgh. Who knows. I'm anxious to get the results back of my event monitor, but wonder if it will be enough to diagnose anything?
DickETicka
02-18-2009, 02:58 PM
Iliketorun
Good to see some more Wenckebacher's on board (and I mean that in the nicest possible way :wave: ), it's somehow more conforting to know your not the only one, certainly sharing experiences makes it a lot easier to deal with.
I'll check out "athletic heart syndrome", although I don't really consider myself an athelete.
I'm currently testing cutting out all alcohol (only for a month ;) don't want to go too mad :dizzy: ), I'm on my third week, and am seeing an improvement, so Cafeine and Alcohol seem to be triggers for me.
I did read somewhere, about the different stages of heart block, specifically about symptoms getting worse with excercise or better depending on the type you have, I'll see if I can dig it up.
Zekat
I was diagnosed with Wenckebach from a 24h ECG/EKG/Holster.
I "made sure" that I recorded the episodic events, this was quite easy for me, as all I had to was lay on my back in the evening and relax, and flag the events to the ECG recorder when they happened.
It's quite straight forward (well it is to the men in white coats) to recognise Wenckebach from an ECG tape.
If you are interested, (I'm a bit of a geek) do a search on "ECG mobitz type 2".
Keep me posted on how you go Wenckebacher's and stay calm.
Dick
Good to see some more Wenckebacher's on board (and I mean that in the nicest possible way :wave: ), it's somehow more conforting to know your not the only one, certainly sharing experiences makes it a lot easier to deal with.
I'll check out "athletic heart syndrome", although I don't really consider myself an athelete.
I'm currently testing cutting out all alcohol (only for a month ;) don't want to go too mad :dizzy: ), I'm on my third week, and am seeing an improvement, so Cafeine and Alcohol seem to be triggers for me.
I did read somewhere, about the different stages of heart block, specifically about symptoms getting worse with excercise or better depending on the type you have, I'll see if I can dig it up.
Zekat
I was diagnosed with Wenckebach from a 24h ECG/EKG/Holster.
I "made sure" that I recorded the episodic events, this was quite easy for me, as all I had to was lay on my back in the evening and relax, and flag the events to the ECG recorder when they happened.
It's quite straight forward (well it is to the men in white coats) to recognise Wenckebach from an ECG tape.
If you are interested, (I'm a bit of a geek) do a search on "ECG mobitz type 2".
Keep me posted on how you go Wenckebacher's and stay calm.
Dick
iliketorun
02-19-2009, 01:50 PM
Dick,
I had an echo today and the tech said all my valves look good. :) I noticed my resting HR was down to 46 yesterday afternoon. Guess I'm in good shape eh? It is funny how a month of no alcohol can seem like a long time. I have only had one beer (pint) in the past month and that evening I had more palpitations. But I really like wine and am contemplating have a glass or two Sunday night and just dealing with it. I really miss wine, but if I see a noticeable effect again, well then I will just give it up completely. You said you are not an athlete but cycling 100 miles a week would certainly put you in superb cardio shape....and lead to this. One article I read said 10 to 33% of athletes have first degree heart block and 40% of those will show Wenckebach (2.4 to 10%). In the non-athlete population, 0.65% will show first degree heart block and 0.003% show Wenckebach. But I have read other reports that say up to 8% of the general population will show first degree heart block, so it is a bit confusing.
Going for a run now, I'm not going to give that up in order to get rid of these occasional palpitations!
I had an echo today and the tech said all my valves look good. :) I noticed my resting HR was down to 46 yesterday afternoon. Guess I'm in good shape eh? It is funny how a month of no alcohol can seem like a long time. I have only had one beer (pint) in the past month and that evening I had more palpitations. But I really like wine and am contemplating have a glass or two Sunday night and just dealing with it. I really miss wine, but if I see a noticeable effect again, well then I will just give it up completely. You said you are not an athlete but cycling 100 miles a week would certainly put you in superb cardio shape....and lead to this. One article I read said 10 to 33% of athletes have first degree heart block and 40% of those will show Wenckebach (2.4 to 10%). In the non-athlete population, 0.65% will show first degree heart block and 0.003% show Wenckebach. But I have read other reports that say up to 8% of the general population will show first degree heart block, so it is a bit confusing.
Going for a run now, I'm not going to give that up in order to get rid of these occasional palpitations!
Kfrancis
02-25-2009, 07:47 PM
Hey Everyone,
My daughter was diagnosed at the beginning of the month when she passed out during a basketball game. Scared us all to death. They did the heart monitors on her and discovered the "dropped" heart beats. She was sent to a pediatric cardiologist and did all sorts of tests. The most revealing was the stress test. While being hooked up to the monitor the inclination and speed was increased on the treadmill. The doctor was there the whole time while nurses surrounded her in case she passed out again. When she got to the phase when her body needed to switch from the anaerobic to the aerobic phase she went completely pale, started to swoon and said she was dizzy and lightheaded. Her heart rate also went a little wacky. The doctor told her to breath as deeply as she could and told the tech to increase the incline and speed. The doctor told her to push it as hard as she could. Within seconds of her breathing deeper and pushing on to the aerobic stage she went from pale and dizzy to pink and energized. At this point the test was concluded and the doctor instructed her to recognize her body's signals, breath, and push through that phase. All that for what seems to be a simple solution. So far, so good. She has played in a number of games since then and has been able to breath and push through her phases. Not sure if this is typical for this condition but its working for her.
My daughter was diagnosed at the beginning of the month when she passed out during a basketball game. Scared us all to death. They did the heart monitors on her and discovered the "dropped" heart beats. She was sent to a pediatric cardiologist and did all sorts of tests. The most revealing was the stress test. While being hooked up to the monitor the inclination and speed was increased on the treadmill. The doctor was there the whole time while nurses surrounded her in case she passed out again. When she got to the phase when her body needed to switch from the anaerobic to the aerobic phase she went completely pale, started to swoon and said she was dizzy and lightheaded. Her heart rate also went a little wacky. The doctor told her to breath as deeply as she could and told the tech to increase the incline and speed. The doctor told her to push it as hard as she could. Within seconds of her breathing deeper and pushing on to the aerobic stage she went from pale and dizzy to pink and energized. At this point the test was concluded and the doctor instructed her to recognize her body's signals, breath, and push through that phase. All that for what seems to be a simple solution. So far, so good. She has played in a number of games since then and has been able to breath and push through her phases. Not sure if this is typical for this condition but its working for her.
PadWC2
11-03-2009, 08:05 PM
Hi ILiketoRun
I am 68 and after dealing with "Hike 5-miles", "Sit-down", "Pass-Out" Wanckenbaching, I got a pace maker installed. The technician interviewing me to determine the appropriate settings, (sensitiviity .025 sec, minimum rate before pacing 60, and rate response 10(how much of a drop from current before pacing) set my pacemaker up for long distance running. Consider doing something about it even at 45!
I am 68 and after dealing with "Hike 5-miles", "Sit-down", "Pass-Out" Wanckenbaching, I got a pace maker installed. The technician interviewing me to determine the appropriate settings, (sensitiviity .025 sec, minimum rate before pacing 60, and rate response 10(how much of a drop from current before pacing) set my pacemaker up for long distance running. Consider doing something about it even at 45!
AlexisVZ
11-04-2009, 12:17 PM
Interesting thread !
I was diagnosed with Wenckebach about during a routine EKG for an insurance company 1 year ago. I couldn't find much info from other people with the same condition at that time, But thanks to a Google alert I found this thread. For now I have no symptoms except maybe occasionally very light palpitations. I have also received no treatment, but was advised to stop regular cardiovascular training (which is a pitty, I like jogging for about 45 min 1 or 2 times a week), and to have a yearly EKG for follow-up. Besides I drink no coffee and little alcohol (about 1 light beer a day). In january 2010 I have an appointment with a renewed cardiologist specialized heart rhythm disorders (Prof Brugada, VUB Brussels). will keep you posted !
I was diagnosed with Wenckebach about during a routine EKG for an insurance company 1 year ago. I couldn't find much info from other people with the same condition at that time, But thanks to a Google alert I found this thread. For now I have no symptoms except maybe occasionally very light palpitations. I have also received no treatment, but was advised to stop regular cardiovascular training (which is a pitty, I like jogging for about 45 min 1 or 2 times a week), and to have a yearly EKG for follow-up. Besides I drink no coffee and little alcohol (about 1 light beer a day). In january 2010 I have an appointment with a renewed cardiologist specialized heart rhythm disorders (Prof Brugada, VUB Brussels). will keep you posted !
iliketorun
11-04-2009, 12:59 PM
Thanks for the info PadWC2. Right now I am not running, but for other health reasons. When I get back into it, I will see how often the Wenckebach shows up. Last time I was running it seemed to only come up if I was doing something like intervals, fast, then slow walk, dropping the HR rate down too quickly.
PadWC2
11-05-2009, 08:58 AM
Don't fight the monitor. I thought I would pass on the big mistake I made in dealing with the my electrical short circuitry, a type 2 bundle block between the two venticals. The sinus node fired OK but from time to time the message was blocked from getting to the venticals that really do the pumping...so, down you go.
I keeped a record of evey day, weight to weather, but when it came to wearing the Holter Monitor or another monthly deal that records 2-minutes before and 2-minutes after an episode (you push a button) I blew it off. Therefore I spent a year passing out. The cardiologists here and in Dartmoth were doing their best. Even saw the neurologist and had the sleep test.
Finally I went down (heart stopped) for 9-seconds. That's a long time. My wife put the monitor on me as I went into a second pass out 15-minutes later; the blockage which was captured. That evening an emergency pacemaker was put. Problem solved.
Wear the monitor.
Ron
I keeped a record of evey day, weight to weather, but when it came to wearing the Holter Monitor or another monthly deal that records 2-minutes before and 2-minutes after an episode (you push a button) I blew it off. Therefore I spent a year passing out. The cardiologists here and in Dartmoth were doing their best. Even saw the neurologist and had the sleep test.
Finally I went down (heart stopped) for 9-seconds. That's a long time. My wife put the monitor on me as I went into a second pass out 15-minutes later; the blockage which was captured. That evening an emergency pacemaker was put. Problem solved.
Wear the monitor.
Ron