demogoat
03-19-2009, 02:02 PM
Here is a new thread!
Sponsor
akirka
03-19-2009, 03:01 PM
Good job Margaret!!
I just want you to know that I am an advocate for total OATS recovery, not just for humans, but so the practice of fish shocking can be continued for future generations!
So I was wondering, I know you don't post much because you don't want to say anything negative, but it leaves me kind of cloudy about why your foot is not healing like it should. What exactly is happening? Is the graft just not incorporated? Do you think it has anything to do with it being a donor plug instead of your own? Do you think the many years you've had the injury has to do with it? I would think it is possible to re-do OATS. Would that be a consideration?
How's your knee doing? Anyway, someday I hope to have all you gals out here shocking fish - I think you'll actually get into it! :D
Abby :)
I just want you to know that I am an advocate for total OATS recovery, not just for humans, but so the practice of fish shocking can be continued for future generations!
So I was wondering, I know you don't post much because you don't want to say anything negative, but it leaves me kind of cloudy about why your foot is not healing like it should. What exactly is happening? Is the graft just not incorporated? Do you think it has anything to do with it being a donor plug instead of your own? Do you think the many years you've had the injury has to do with it? I would think it is possible to re-do OATS. Would that be a consideration?
How's your knee doing? Anyway, someday I hope to have all you gals out here shocking fish - I think you'll actually get into it! :D
Abby :)
kimberp
03-19-2009, 03:07 PM
Thanks Margaret! :)
Abby - I would LOVE to come out to Montana for the scenery, wildlife fun, etc. but I will not shock a fish! :D
I would however love a tour to see all the wild animals you have! (preferably to see the bigger ones from a distance however ;)
I am curious and concerned about Margaret as well ... Margaret, please fill us in!
Kim :)
Abby - I would LOVE to come out to Montana for the scenery, wildlife fun, etc. but I will not shock a fish! :D
I would however love a tour to see all the wild animals you have! (preferably to see the bigger ones from a distance however ;)
I am curious and concerned about Margaret as well ... Margaret, please fill us in!
Kim :)
krisj5kids
03-19-2009, 03:15 PM
Margaret, do give us more info.
I'd love to shock fish! I guess I'm evil that way.
Margaret, have you had an MRI since your OATS procedure? I'm wondering if I was given cheap parts that I can't have an MRI and Kim can because she has titanium. Maybe mine are rusty already!!
I'd love to shock fish! I guess I'm evil that way.
Margaret, have you had an MRI since your OATS procedure? I'm wondering if I was given cheap parts that I can't have an MRI and Kim can because she has titanium. Maybe mine are rusty already!!
dizzizzi99
03-19-2009, 09:23 PM
Dbast, Wow 20 mm. Well from what I had happen to my left after they tried to fix it, the sides of the "crator" I had in my talus then broke off into 3 separate pieces. Maybe That is what they may mean by instability? Total guess here. One thing you may want to do is measure out the 20mm onto a paper. From what they told me the talus is usually 1.5 inches around so your 20 mm lesion takes up most of it. You can have your doc draw it out for you and its location. At one time they did a ct scan on me and the doc had them do a 3D rebuild of the bone structure. It was really cool to see (except for the chunk missing was huge) But it gave me a real idea of why this was so painful. Just trying to give you ideas of what to ask. I hope it is not too deep. Mine was 4mm deep which was not good. I'm guessing that led to the failure of the initial drilling. Has the OS worked on any knees? That may be another thing to ask.
dizzizzi99
03-19-2009, 09:41 PM
Sorry I am laughing at kris and the cheap parts. Thanks Chris for the good LOL. I must have got the cheap ones too Maybe the husband bought some used ones from the garage for them to use. I can't get the MRI either.
Margarett, this is one hard thing to do, I hope you have someone else to talk with if you don't want to write the negitive here. I had some pretty low days last week. After work it is hard for me even to press the pedals when I drive. Then the whole coming home and doing more work. Today is the first day of my work week and now that I am sitting when I get up I can barely walk. I can't go into pain detail w/o swearing so I won't. The amount of surgery I would need to fix this all will probably never happen due to funds and age. So I got to come to terms that my days of walking are limited. Never in my mind did I ever think that my life would turn out like this. I am 44 now. My moms side lives till they are 100. All I can think of is I don't want to be here that long. Its just all too much. So for me to write this helps a bit, it also helps to know that someone else may need some help from us and that keeps me feeling like I have some sort of purpose that some sort of good may come to someone else due to my pain. Otherwise it would make this all some kind of cruel joke played on me. I must have been some kindof bitch in a past life to have to go through this. purgatory is hell unless this is.
Margarett, this is one hard thing to do, I hope you have someone else to talk with if you don't want to write the negitive here. I had some pretty low days last week. After work it is hard for me even to press the pedals when I drive. Then the whole coming home and doing more work. Today is the first day of my work week and now that I am sitting when I get up I can barely walk. I can't go into pain detail w/o swearing so I won't. The amount of surgery I would need to fix this all will probably never happen due to funds and age. So I got to come to terms that my days of walking are limited. Never in my mind did I ever think that my life would turn out like this. I am 44 now. My moms side lives till they are 100. All I can think of is I don't want to be here that long. Its just all too much. So for me to write this helps a bit, it also helps to know that someone else may need some help from us and that keeps me feeling like I have some sort of purpose that some sort of good may come to someone else due to my pain. Otherwise it would make this all some kind of cruel joke played on me. I must have been some kindof bitch in a past life to have to go through this. purgatory is hell unless this is.
Sparksa
03-20-2009, 08:44 AM
Kris :wave: Kim:wave:
And big hugs for Dizz... feels like you need one...
Sat I went nuts, got fed up in house so went out for a walk, I started to put the foot down but just motion, no weight on it... I was out and about for an hour or so, got back home... no pain, none at all, swollen up a bit but put ice on it and was fine.
On Sun went out again, again put the foot down and not pain, so I put a bit of weight on it, not too much tho... again no pain, swollen a bit, ice and was fine.
From next week I'll start PT.. I know will take a bit, but can't wait to get rid of the crutches... and my hands too, poor things hurt like hell in the morning, plus or the left hand, the pinky and the one next started to feel numb at touch, can move them but when touch feels numb... I guess I'm pressing a nerve or something while on crutches.
Kim... any news about you??
Sparks
And big hugs for Dizz... feels like you need one...
Sat I went nuts, got fed up in house so went out for a walk, I started to put the foot down but just motion, no weight on it... I was out and about for an hour or so, got back home... no pain, none at all, swollen up a bit but put ice on it and was fine.
On Sun went out again, again put the foot down and not pain, so I put a bit of weight on it, not too much tho... again no pain, swollen a bit, ice and was fine.
From next week I'll start PT.. I know will take a bit, but can't wait to get rid of the crutches... and my hands too, poor things hurt like hell in the morning, plus or the left hand, the pinky and the one next started to feel numb at touch, can move them but when touch feels numb... I guess I'm pressing a nerve or something while on crutches.
Kim... any news about you??
Sparks
kimberp
03-20-2009, 10:49 AM
Hey Sparks :wave:
Sounds like you are doing well and I bet it felt good to get out of the house! Good for you, keep up the good work!
No news for me yet, they said on Wed they wouldn't mail out the CD until today so I don't think I'll get it until Monday or so. I don't see my OS until April 3rd so I won't get the official word on what's happening but I am going to print out the report on the CD and bring it to my PT to see if he can translate some of it for me. I'll keep you posted!
Feel good everyone and Dizzi, I'll say an extra prayer for you :angel:
Kim :)
Sounds like you are doing well and I bet it felt good to get out of the house! Good for you, keep up the good work!
No news for me yet, they said on Wed they wouldn't mail out the CD until today so I don't think I'll get it until Monday or so. I don't see my OS until April 3rd so I won't get the official word on what's happening but I am going to print out the report on the CD and bring it to my PT to see if he can translate some of it for me. I'll keep you posted!
Feel good everyone and Dizzi, I'll say an extra prayer for you :angel:
Kim :)
krisj5kids
03-20-2009, 01:13 PM
Dizzi (HUGS) it WILL get better. Stay positive. I'm just trying to hold off until ankle replacements get more common. Just think, then we'd have NEW parts and hopefully not cheap ones.
dblast, the unstable I think is referring to part of the OCD bone/cartilige that dislodges from the spot.
I'm wondering if my CT will show any OCD left (if any) better than an MRI. My first MRI before my first surgery didn't show either of my 2 OCD areas. Nothing. My dr. was totally suprised when he got in there and saw 2 OCD's and broken off pieces from them. So, I was never feeling that great about the MRI for that reason. Heck, it didn't show my peroneal tendon torn 50% the last time either. I've come to the conclusion that the radiologist must only look for what is mentioned as supsected. For example, the first time ligament and tendon issues were suspected and sure enough they found tendon and ligament issues but no OCD issues. Last MRI, OCD issues were suspected and found but no tendon and ligament issues, yet I had those too. This time no mention was made to look for tendon or ligament issues only OCD and impingement issues so we shall see what comes up.
I should have my CD this afternoon to look at. I have my CT in 45 min, so time to get ready.
Oh, btw, my ankle suddenly started feeling better in terms of the shooting pains. It is like it g ets stuck and the shooting pains are so intense, and then I can shake my ankle and something moves and it feels a bit bet ter. But, it'll show up either way I guess.
dblast, the unstable I think is referring to part of the OCD bone/cartilige that dislodges from the spot.
I'm wondering if my CT will show any OCD left (if any) better than an MRI. My first MRI before my first surgery didn't show either of my 2 OCD areas. Nothing. My dr. was totally suprised when he got in there and saw 2 OCD's and broken off pieces from them. So, I was never feeling that great about the MRI for that reason. Heck, it didn't show my peroneal tendon torn 50% the last time either. I've come to the conclusion that the radiologist must only look for what is mentioned as supsected. For example, the first time ligament and tendon issues were suspected and sure enough they found tendon and ligament issues but no OCD issues. Last MRI, OCD issues were suspected and found but no tendon and ligament issues, yet I had those too. This time no mention was made to look for tendon or ligament issues only OCD and impingement issues so we shall see what comes up.
I should have my CD this afternoon to look at. I have my CT in 45 min, so time to get ready.
Oh, btw, my ankle suddenly started feeling better in terms of the shooting pains. It is like it g ets stuck and the shooting pains are so intense, and then I can shake my ankle and something moves and it feels a bit bet ter. But, it'll show up either way I guess.
akirka
03-20-2009, 01:32 PM
Hey Dizzi,
So I'm sorry you feel so defeated. :( When I was going through all this last year someone at work told me about her friend who had ankle fusion. It took her a whole year to recover but she eventually went back to hiking and such. Not something that we want to think about, but there are good options beyond OATS like replacement or fusion that can give you hope of pain relief and mobility. I wouldn't give up yet for sure! I totally ditto the pain from the car pedal. I have a standard and using the clutch for the last 3 years was so painful. It's awesome now to have no pain while driving! So you have to stand a lot at work? Are there any other options?
Kris - I don't think the FDA and the AMA allow cheap parts. Now if you had OATS done in Mexico .... maybe? :D It's weird, I hear conflicting things about MRIs and hardware. I think they can shield some hardware when you have a scan. Kim and I have the screws totally inside our tibias. Maybe your plates/screws are too close to the surface? I have no idea .... Yeah, my MRI showed no cartilage damage and it was very wrong .... There are limits to these scans for sure!
Abby :)
So I'm sorry you feel so defeated. :( When I was going through all this last year someone at work told me about her friend who had ankle fusion. It took her a whole year to recover but she eventually went back to hiking and such. Not something that we want to think about, but there are good options beyond OATS like replacement or fusion that can give you hope of pain relief and mobility. I wouldn't give up yet for sure! I totally ditto the pain from the car pedal. I have a standard and using the clutch for the last 3 years was so painful. It's awesome now to have no pain while driving! So you have to stand a lot at work? Are there any other options?
Kris - I don't think the FDA and the AMA allow cheap parts. Now if you had OATS done in Mexico .... maybe? :D It's weird, I hear conflicting things about MRIs and hardware. I think they can shield some hardware when you have a scan. Kim and I have the screws totally inside our tibias. Maybe your plates/screws are too close to the surface? I have no idea .... Yeah, my MRI showed no cartilage damage and it was very wrong .... There are limits to these scans for sure!
Abby :)
dbast
03-20-2009, 05:23 PM
Okay, I know this is my other OCD kicking in, but I am still researching other OSs that would maybe be considered experts (so to speak) in doing this procedure. Does anyone in here live anywhere close to Indianapolis? I think I may have found someone in Indy and he and his team sound excellent. The assistant to the physicians I was able to s/w said the Drs there only do this as an autograft, that she has not heard of them doing it with cadiver. She is going to s/w the Drs about my situation and I told her to make sure that she mentions that the lesion is 20mm (or at least that is what it was back in Oct.). From all the research I have done, the lesion is too massive to go with the autograft. So, I guess we'll see, but these guys are the docs for the Indy racing team and the Indy Colts football team and most of the sports teams in the area. Sounds good, but who knows!!
krisj5kids
03-20-2009, 05:33 PM
Got my CT disk.
Well, at CT is no where near as clear as an MRI.
And for the screw/plate question that Abby just mentioned. I have a screw that goes 100% through the tibia. The plate is on the outside, along the bone, and then 2 more screws going upwards through the bone. THe CT scanner said, "poor thing with all that hardware." to me. *sigh*
I'm questioning 2 things by what I see. Of course, I'm no radiologist, but when it comes to the OCD's, I think we can all see how they are on the images. Well, I still see where the big one is. Still a (u) shape in the bone. Maybe it will show like that until it totally heals, I don't know. The other thing, and this is stupid of me, is the lady didn't position my ankle at a right ankle. THey were supposed to look for impingement in the front. Well, she had me relax and my ankle points forward expanding the area of impingement. So we'll see what they say about that. I look like a dancer doing point in my pic.
The other thing I think is weird is the osteotomy site doens't look healed. I know it did on the x-ray, but I can see a clear as day line AND the bottom of the bone doesn't line up with the part it is next to. I could be all wrong and maybe the screws contribute to the line, I don't know. But that is what I see. I have my appt. Wed. with my OS. I'm so mad I didn't keep my ankle at a right angle for the CT though because I that is when the ankle hurts and they can't see if anything is touching if it is pointed the other way. UGH! I could scream, I'm so stupid.
I saved the pics. Too bad we can't post anything here.
Well, at CT is no where near as clear as an MRI.
And for the screw/plate question that Abby just mentioned. I have a screw that goes 100% through the tibia. The plate is on the outside, along the bone, and then 2 more screws going upwards through the bone. THe CT scanner said, "poor thing with all that hardware." to me. *sigh*
I'm questioning 2 things by what I see. Of course, I'm no radiologist, but when it comes to the OCD's, I think we can all see how they are on the images. Well, I still see where the big one is. Still a (u) shape in the bone. Maybe it will show like that until it totally heals, I don't know. The other thing, and this is stupid of me, is the lady didn't position my ankle at a right ankle. THey were supposed to look for impingement in the front. Well, she had me relax and my ankle points forward expanding the area of impingement. So we'll see what they say about that. I look like a dancer doing point in my pic.
The other thing I think is weird is the osteotomy site doens't look healed. I know it did on the x-ray, but I can see a clear as day line AND the bottom of the bone doesn't line up with the part it is next to. I could be all wrong and maybe the screws contribute to the line, I don't know. But that is what I see. I have my appt. Wed. with my OS. I'm so mad I didn't keep my ankle at a right angle for the CT though because I that is when the ankle hurts and they can't see if anything is touching if it is pointed the other way. UGH! I could scream, I'm so stupid.
I saved the pics. Too bad we can't post anything here.
anklehelp
03-20-2009, 09:25 PM
Hey everyone,
It's Liz. So I am four days postop and so far so good! My pain on a level from 1 to 10 hasn't been over a four but it has mostly been a 1. Of course I've been on meds since surgery. I spent two days in the hospital. My doctor was shocked going into my ankle because he says the lesion wasnt as bad as the MRIs or Cts stated! I don't know the details yet, this is all info he told my husband. He also removed a tumor like mass of synovium and nasty gunk that was wrapped around my ankle! Gross. No wonder my pain was all over the place. I have an appointment with him on Monday so I'll be asking questions and looking at those nasty pictures. Wish we could post on here. Well just a quick update, gonna get some sleep, I can't seem to stay awake much yet, :)
It's Liz. So I am four days postop and so far so good! My pain on a level from 1 to 10 hasn't been over a four but it has mostly been a 1. Of course I've been on meds since surgery. I spent two days in the hospital. My doctor was shocked going into my ankle because he says the lesion wasnt as bad as the MRIs or Cts stated! I don't know the details yet, this is all info he told my husband. He also removed a tumor like mass of synovium and nasty gunk that was wrapped around my ankle! Gross. No wonder my pain was all over the place. I have an appointment with him on Monday so I'll be asking questions and looking at those nasty pictures. Wish we could post on here. Well just a quick update, gonna get some sleep, I can't seem to stay awake much yet, :)
dbast
03-21-2009, 12:50 AM
Liz - Great to hear from you. Very glad to hear that all is well. Keep us posted.
krisj5kids
03-21-2009, 08:26 AM
Liz, I'm so happy to hear you are doing well! It's great you have a nice manageable pain experience as an encouragement to others.
Hang in there and keep us updated on recovery.
Hang in there and keep us updated on recovery.
krisj5kids
03-23-2009, 12:50 PM
Kim,
Any word on your MRI? I'm anxious to hear what your report says today.
I'm six months post op today!!!! And once I got that something stuck in my ankle feeling gone, it feels pretty good, better than it has in weeks. I'm still a bit worried about my CT pics. I hope to get the report today or tomorrow.
Any word on your MRI? I'm anxious to hear what your report says today.
I'm six months post op today!!!! And once I got that something stuck in my ankle feeling gone, it feels pretty good, better than it has in weeks. I'm still a bit worried about my CT pics. I hope to get the report today or tomorrow.
kimberp
03-23-2009, 01:16 PM
Kris,
Not yet, although it might be in my mailbox at home, but I am at work.
I know the waiting is torture, but I like getting the CD with all the pics and the report at once since I would be like you and looking at the pics and drawing my own conclusions which can't be good ;) (I have my physical therapist on standby to translate the report for me into English, but unfortunately he won't know how anything would be treated.) I just hope that whatever it is that is bothering me shows up on the MRI and that it is an 'easy' fix. (one mention of more surgery by my OS and I might implode!)
Glad to hear you are feeling better, have you eased up on doing anything? By process of elimination maybe we can find out what is causing your pain.
Kim :)
Not yet, although it might be in my mailbox at home, but I am at work.
I know the waiting is torture, but I like getting the CD with all the pics and the report at once since I would be like you and looking at the pics and drawing my own conclusions which can't be good ;) (I have my physical therapist on standby to translate the report for me into English, but unfortunately he won't know how anything would be treated.) I just hope that whatever it is that is bothering me shows up on the MRI and that it is an 'easy' fix. (one mention of more surgery by my OS and I might implode!)
Glad to hear you are feeling better, have you eased up on doing anything? By process of elimination maybe we can find out what is causing your pain.
Kim :)
krisj5kids
03-23-2009, 09:59 PM
Kim, any news?
I got my report today.
It doesn't look good. Basically it seems the osteotomy hasn't healed or as the report says has a post operative defect along the whole line of it.
It also says I have a "a 1cm area of adjacent articular surface irregularity and underlying sclerosis and cystic change along the mid to anterior medial talar dome near the area previously seen on the old MRI."
So seriously, what??????? I mean, what???? Okay, so I've done EVERYTHING my dr. told me to do in the order and when he told me to do it. I know he is much more aggressive and so maybe this is where his aggressiveness comes to bite me, but I have not hit or kicked anything with that foot or ankle. I've done my PT exercises everyday, I've done everything like I was told. I even was in a cast longer than normal to keep me from being active(my choice).
So, I don't get it. I really don't get it. Maybe the OATS just looks the same afterwards and the area of sclerosis and cystic change blah, blah, blah, is really the new bone, but I think I might be kidding myself there.
It found some other minor stuff around my peroneals and such, but I was afraid of this with how I had that period a week 1/2 ago when I could hardly walk. I'm sure the plug or some small piece was stuck in the ankle. And then, it moved and that's why I actually have been feeling better than ever. Granted, it still hurts, but I've been feeling better than I was.
I got my report today.
It doesn't look good. Basically it seems the osteotomy hasn't healed or as the report says has a post operative defect along the whole line of it.
It also says I have a "a 1cm area of adjacent articular surface irregularity and underlying sclerosis and cystic change along the mid to anterior medial talar dome near the area previously seen on the old MRI."
So seriously, what??????? I mean, what???? Okay, so I've done EVERYTHING my dr. told me to do in the order and when he told me to do it. I know he is much more aggressive and so maybe this is where his aggressiveness comes to bite me, but I have not hit or kicked anything with that foot or ankle. I've done my PT exercises everyday, I've done everything like I was told. I even was in a cast longer than normal to keep me from being active(my choice).
So, I don't get it. I really don't get it. Maybe the OATS just looks the same afterwards and the area of sclerosis and cystic change blah, blah, blah, is really the new bone, but I think I might be kidding myself there.
It found some other minor stuff around my peroneals and such, but I was afraid of this with how I had that period a week 1/2 ago when I could hardly walk. I'm sure the plug or some small piece was stuck in the ankle. And then, it moved and that's why I actually have been feeling better than ever. Granted, it still hurts, but I've been feeling better than I was.
kimberp
03-23-2009, 10:19 PM
Kris,
No, mine didn't come today. Hopefully tomorrow it will arrive and if not I'll go pick it up on Wednesday. (this is one of the bad things about the films being sent to Hosp for Special Surgery to read, sometimes it takes longer)
I wouldn't jump to conclusions about what you are reading. There are bound to be 'things' happening in your foot that are a result of the many procedures you've had done, so see what your OS says .. some of this 'medical speak' might be normal and expected after what you've had done.
I can't imagine that one of your plugs came out and has just floated into a place that feels ok as I would think if a misc piece of bone is just 'hanging out' in your foot, it would be seen and noted in your report and I would suspect you would have some pain given the open crater it would leave in your talus. If there is no mention of 'necrotic fragment' I think you are ok.
When do you see your OS again?
Kim :)
No, mine didn't come today. Hopefully tomorrow it will arrive and if not I'll go pick it up on Wednesday. (this is one of the bad things about the films being sent to Hosp for Special Surgery to read, sometimes it takes longer)
I wouldn't jump to conclusions about what you are reading. There are bound to be 'things' happening in your foot that are a result of the many procedures you've had done, so see what your OS says .. some of this 'medical speak' might be normal and expected after what you've had done.
I can't imagine that one of your plugs came out and has just floated into a place that feels ok as I would think if a misc piece of bone is just 'hanging out' in your foot, it would be seen and noted in your report and I would suspect you would have some pain given the open crater it would leave in your talus. If there is no mention of 'necrotic fragment' I think you are ok.
When do you see your OS again?
Kim :)
krisj5kids
03-23-2009, 10:47 PM
I see him Wed. It did mention 2 tiny os or small extra bones. I've never had that mentioned in a report before. BUt no necrotic fragment. It is just I can see the u shape in the talus. The plug may not have come out, you are right, but when I had my first surgery, that is what happened. 2 pieces of bone/cartilige were floating in my ankle. I had no idea and they didn't show up on MRI either. The dr. was shocked because when I had my first surgery we had no idea I even had 2 OCD areas. I was just going in for ligaments and tendons. So, I know it doesn't seem possible to not feel it, but it happened to me before. It didn't happen between surgery 1 and 2 so I can't tell when it has happened and when it didn't. It all felt the same.
I know I'm probably working myself up over nothing. You are right, who knows what my ankle really should look like at this point.
I need to just let it rest and get my mind off of it.
My son has surgery tomorrow on his nose for the bleeding issues and then Wed. morning I see my PT and then the afternoon see the OS. So, I should have something to keep me busy between now and then.
When do you go back to see the dr.?
I know I'm probably working myself up over nothing. You are right, who knows what my ankle really should look like at this point.
I need to just let it rest and get my mind off of it.
My son has surgery tomorrow on his nose for the bleeding issues and then Wed. morning I see my PT and then the afternoon see the OS. So, I should have something to keep me busy between now and then.
When do you go back to see the dr.?
kimberp
03-24-2009, 10:19 AM
I agree, sit back and wait to see what your OS says. Mine said after my first surgery that once they go into it it will 'never be the same' so I am sure, especially after OATS that things in our foot are not the 'norm' but are now the 'norm' for us and expected after what we've been through.
My OS said that my talus will never have a smooth surface where the plugs are (afterall, I don't think he 'sculpted' the tops of the plus to match exactly ;) so a future test may point out the difference in the surface, but for me it's expected and explainable. You may have a lot of these explainable surgical remnants too (there's a term for you! LOL)
Let us know what he says tomorrow, but in the meantime it sounds like you have your handsful with your son. Good luck with his procedure. I am sure you will all be glad to get rid of those nosebleeds once and for all!
Hopefully my disk will come today but now I may be hesitant to look at it for the same reasons I listed above. I see my OS next Friday, 4/3, so I have a bit of waiting, although I have to admit .. I am back to the boot, am out of PT and am not taking anti-inflams and I feel ok.
Kim :)
My OS said that my talus will never have a smooth surface where the plugs are (afterall, I don't think he 'sculpted' the tops of the plus to match exactly ;) so a future test may point out the difference in the surface, but for me it's expected and explainable. You may have a lot of these explainable surgical remnants too (there's a term for you! LOL)
Let us know what he says tomorrow, but in the meantime it sounds like you have your handsful with your son. Good luck with his procedure. I am sure you will all be glad to get rid of those nosebleeds once and for all!
Hopefully my disk will come today but now I may be hesitant to look at it for the same reasons I listed above. I see my OS next Friday, 4/3, so I have a bit of waiting, although I have to admit .. I am back to the boot, am out of PT and am not taking anti-inflams and I feel ok.
Kim :)
krisj5kids
03-25-2009, 01:04 PM
Kim,
Did ya look? It would be so hard to have the CD and not look at the pics until my appt. I hope there is an easy fix for your ankle.
My son's surgery went well and then we had a side trip to the urgent care with daughter #2 who put her teeth and braces through her tongue. That's always fun to look at.
Went to PT today and showed him the report and ct and he didn't have much to say about it but didn't do anything on the side of the osteotomy, just did the cupping along the peroneals. It has been helping with the zingy feeling I get going to my toes, so at least that's working well.
My appt. is later this afternoon.
Anyone else have any updates?
Did ya look? It would be so hard to have the CD and not look at the pics until my appt. I hope there is an easy fix for your ankle.
My son's surgery went well and then we had a side trip to the urgent care with daughter #2 who put her teeth and braces through her tongue. That's always fun to look at.
Went to PT today and showed him the report and ct and he didn't have much to say about it but didn't do anything on the side of the osteotomy, just did the cupping along the peroneals. It has been helping with the zingy feeling I get going to my toes, so at least that's working well.
My appt. is later this afternoon.
Anyone else have any updates?
kimberp
03-25-2009, 01:36 PM
Kris -
Yes, I admit it .. I looked ... and not happy, although I am going to see my PT in 30 mins to translate some of it for me.
Apparently I have a plate too, along with the screws (who knew!) ...
I'll give you the last paragraph, the 'impression':
"There has been interval placement of a medial malleolar plate and screws. There is no appreciable difference in the medial osteochondral injury compared to MRI of 04/08 although evaluation is somewhat limited due to the dephasing artifact in the adjacent tibial instrumentation. There has been interval increase in the ankle joint effusion as well as appearance of arthritis of the posterior subtalar joint with large effusion, subchondral marrow edema and subchondral fibrocystic change. While this arthritis is most likely degenerative, the possibility of an inflammatory process cannot be entirely excluded."
Some tidbits from the 'findings' are:
"There is an osteochondral injury of the medial side of the talar dome, somewhat obscured by the dephasing artifact, with overlying full-thickness cartilage loss and an osseous defect, not appreciably changed compared to previous examination"
"There has been an interval increase in the subtalar joint effusion, with the development of arthritis in the subtalar joing with cystic or erosive change in the posterior subtalar facet and marrow edema across both sides of the joint"
"Edema is present around the calcaneofibular ligament, new from previous and of uncertain significance, but possibly due to distension of the adjacent posterior subtalar joint"
I don't know what any of this means and I am trying to take the advice I gave you and not get upset and wait until next week to see what my OS says. I tend to think it is agreeing with me and saying that "Boy, you are swollen girl!" and I hope that is all it is saying ... don't like that arthritis part though, that can't be good.
I'll let you know what insight my PT gives me ...
Did you see your OS yet?
Kim :)
Yes, I admit it .. I looked ... and not happy, although I am going to see my PT in 30 mins to translate some of it for me.
Apparently I have a plate too, along with the screws (who knew!) ...
I'll give you the last paragraph, the 'impression':
"There has been interval placement of a medial malleolar plate and screws. There is no appreciable difference in the medial osteochondral injury compared to MRI of 04/08 although evaluation is somewhat limited due to the dephasing artifact in the adjacent tibial instrumentation. There has been interval increase in the ankle joint effusion as well as appearance of arthritis of the posterior subtalar joint with large effusion, subchondral marrow edema and subchondral fibrocystic change. While this arthritis is most likely degenerative, the possibility of an inflammatory process cannot be entirely excluded."
Some tidbits from the 'findings' are:
"There is an osteochondral injury of the medial side of the talar dome, somewhat obscured by the dephasing artifact, with overlying full-thickness cartilage loss and an osseous defect, not appreciably changed compared to previous examination"
"There has been an interval increase in the subtalar joint effusion, with the development of arthritis in the subtalar joing with cystic or erosive change in the posterior subtalar facet and marrow edema across both sides of the joint"
"Edema is present around the calcaneofibular ligament, new from previous and of uncertain significance, but possibly due to distension of the adjacent posterior subtalar joint"
I don't know what any of this means and I am trying to take the advice I gave you and not get upset and wait until next week to see what my OS says. I tend to think it is agreeing with me and saying that "Boy, you are swollen girl!" and I hope that is all it is saying ... don't like that arthritis part though, that can't be good.
I'll let you know what insight my PT gives me ...
Did you see your OS yet?
Kim :)
krisj5kids
03-25-2009, 02:38 PM
Kim,
You know what, both our OCD findings were similar in that they both were similar to previous MRI's. So, maybe that is good and that the plug just shows up that way? That's my theory and I"m sticking with it for now. I'm thinking that the osseous defect and my osseous stuff or os as they mentioned could be the plug? Trying to be optimistic here.
I had a boatload of arthritis when I had my first surgery and some this last time around. I had it cleaned up during my first surgery and some was there on the 2nd, but not in the same areas, SO, it can be cleaned out.
It does sound like you are swollen... I'll be curious what your PT says. Mine said that if they just plugged in cartilidge then it wouldn't show up on the CT, but if they did bone and cartlige then it would. He just didn't know.
I leave for my dr. in 40 min or so. Hope your PT can give you some insight.
You know what, both our OCD findings were similar in that they both were similar to previous MRI's. So, maybe that is good and that the plug just shows up that way? That's my theory and I"m sticking with it for now. I'm thinking that the osseous defect and my osseous stuff or os as they mentioned could be the plug? Trying to be optimistic here.
I had a boatload of arthritis when I had my first surgery and some this last time around. I had it cleaned up during my first surgery and some was there on the 2nd, but not in the same areas, SO, it can be cleaned out.
It does sound like you are swollen... I'll be curious what your PT says. Mine said that if they just plugged in cartilidge then it wouldn't show up on the CT, but if they did bone and cartlige then it would. He just didn't know.
I leave for my dr. in 40 min or so. Hope your PT can give you some insight.
krisj5kids
03-25-2009, 06:12 PM
Back from dr. appt. and I'm confused, frustrated, and want to cry because he had no answers of what is causing the pain.
He said the osteotomy site healed "perfect" and that the line was just scar tissue and "if it wasn't healed you'd see black, not white."
He said the OATS was fully incorporated and looked great. When I asked about the area on the CT that looked exactly like the one on the MRI pre-surgery, he said that he couldn't fill in the whole area since it was on the shoulder and so it would be there, but the part he did was perfect.
Didn't even go into impingement or peroneals....
He said everything looked great. When I asked about the pain he said, "Do you KNOW how much crap I fixed in there? Give it a year."
So, I'm to keep on doing what I'm doing and wait a year before complaining, I guess. I see him again at 9 mos post op.
I'm so frustrated though because the shooting pains are exactly like they were before, only more intense. the whole osteotomy site, plate and all KILL. I've been sucking it up. I have never called to complain. I waited the whole 3 mos between appts.
He also told me I had some arthritis in there but that was "the price I'll have to pay for the damage to my ankle".
I'm thinking he was having a bad day.
I didn't want him to find anything wrong, but I was thinking if something wasn't healed, then I'd know that was what was wrong and stay off of it x amount of time and then it would be great after that.
It seems like he just keeps adding the amount of time he expects for healing each time he sees me.
Kim- The good news about the OATS part is that he said the image will always show sclerosis and cystic changes under it or something to that nature.
He said the osteotomy site healed "perfect" and that the line was just scar tissue and "if it wasn't healed you'd see black, not white."
He said the OATS was fully incorporated and looked great. When I asked about the area on the CT that looked exactly like the one on the MRI pre-surgery, he said that he couldn't fill in the whole area since it was on the shoulder and so it would be there, but the part he did was perfect.
Didn't even go into impingement or peroneals....
He said everything looked great. When I asked about the pain he said, "Do you KNOW how much crap I fixed in there? Give it a year."
So, I'm to keep on doing what I'm doing and wait a year before complaining, I guess. I see him again at 9 mos post op.
I'm so frustrated though because the shooting pains are exactly like they were before, only more intense. the whole osteotomy site, plate and all KILL. I've been sucking it up. I have never called to complain. I waited the whole 3 mos between appts.
He also told me I had some arthritis in there but that was "the price I'll have to pay for the damage to my ankle".
I'm thinking he was having a bad day.
I didn't want him to find anything wrong, but I was thinking if something wasn't healed, then I'd know that was what was wrong and stay off of it x amount of time and then it would be great after that.
It seems like he just keeps adding the amount of time he expects for healing each time he sees me.
Kim- The good news about the OATS part is that he said the image will always show sclerosis and cystic changes under it or something to that nature.
kimberp
03-26-2009, 09:45 AM
Kris -
I'm sorry you didn't get any answers but it's good news that the osteotomy is healed and the plugs have incorporated. Perhaps he is right and it's just time that you need ... my OS has been saying since day one that this is a 'long recovery.' You know the limits of your foot ... continue to take it easy and hopefully in a few months you'll start to feel less pain ... sorry I don't have a better suggestion but I think I may be in the same boat.
My PT yesterday wasn't much help in reading my MRI results as he sounded like I did with you the other day. He said that if he didn't know what I had done and I just handed it to him he'd say 'WOW, this isn't good", but since what we've had done is so complex and rare, he said that some of what is happening might be normal at this point in recovery and expected, so he is of course deferring to my OS. He was surprised that there was no mention of any inflammation with my achilles but he did say that from the report the inflammation is in my joint. He said he wouldn't be surprised if my OS brings up the ATL surgery again since perhaps my shrunken achilles is causing the stress on my joint .. he did say though that if that is the case, it's good that my achilles isn't inflammed because he couldn't imagine having my achilles 'sliced and diced' (nice!) while it was inflammed.
So, basically I am no more knowledgable than I was, but that's OK, I'll wait until next Friday before I get myself all crazy. (Actually at this point, I think I am numb and honestly don't care what needs to be done at this point .. I think I've been through the worst and whatever it takes to be done with this I will do.)
I am starting to think though that perhaps Margaret has the right idea ... it's disheartening to keep posting not so good news on here for me and I suspect others that are going to go through this. If I become quiet, know its not you, I may just be having my own personal pity party ;)
Kim :)
I'm sorry you didn't get any answers but it's good news that the osteotomy is healed and the plugs have incorporated. Perhaps he is right and it's just time that you need ... my OS has been saying since day one that this is a 'long recovery.' You know the limits of your foot ... continue to take it easy and hopefully in a few months you'll start to feel less pain ... sorry I don't have a better suggestion but I think I may be in the same boat.
My PT yesterday wasn't much help in reading my MRI results as he sounded like I did with you the other day. He said that if he didn't know what I had done and I just handed it to him he'd say 'WOW, this isn't good", but since what we've had done is so complex and rare, he said that some of what is happening might be normal at this point in recovery and expected, so he is of course deferring to my OS. He was surprised that there was no mention of any inflammation with my achilles but he did say that from the report the inflammation is in my joint. He said he wouldn't be surprised if my OS brings up the ATL surgery again since perhaps my shrunken achilles is causing the stress on my joint .. he did say though that if that is the case, it's good that my achilles isn't inflammed because he couldn't imagine having my achilles 'sliced and diced' (nice!) while it was inflammed.
So, basically I am no more knowledgable than I was, but that's OK, I'll wait until next Friday before I get myself all crazy. (Actually at this point, I think I am numb and honestly don't care what needs to be done at this point .. I think I've been through the worst and whatever it takes to be done with this I will do.)
I am starting to think though that perhaps Margaret has the right idea ... it's disheartening to keep posting not so good news on here for me and I suspect others that are going to go through this. If I become quiet, know its not you, I may just be having my own personal pity party ;)
Kim :)
akirka
03-26-2009, 12:50 PM
Kim and Kris,
Sorry I was gone there a couple days - computer stuff ....windows 2000 to XP reimage - it's scary!
So that's interesting that the MRI is always going to say there is sclerotic and cystic change. Scary to read that for sure. My OS has always done CT scans because I have no soft tissue injuries so I can't compare MRI results.
Kris - don't you have a 2nd OCD they drilled, no graft? Could that be causing your pain? Did the Dr. say anything about that? I'm glad that the graft and osteotomy looks good! Thinking about it, I broke my hand bone pretty bad 5 years ago and it still has a white line in the xray. I have a chip off the edge of my talus shoulder that is not even and will never be. My PT noticed it when he would try inverting my ankle - it just stops as it hits that edge. Time is a good answer as he did about 10x more than what was done to my ankle and it still took me a good 9-10 months to start feeling normal.
Kim - Ignorance is bliss, isn't it! :dizzy: Maybe it's best not to look at the scans? Hopefully the Dr. will clear it up like he did for Kris and tell you everything is looking good! It sounds like you still have a lot of inflamation in the joint? I'll say that my short time NWB has left me with a tighter achilles - can't imagine 2 years in a boot! I'm starting to think that these Dr.'s advising to wait as long as you can stand before OATS might be making some patients worse. If you wait years and your joint continues to break down, you are going to develop arthritis. I hope that is very minimal for you! I'm surprised you didn't know about the plate! I know you have 2 screws - weird you can't see it on an x-ray! Even though there's discouragement, I hope you keep posting!
Hang in there gals and know I care a lot about you and am thinking good thought!
Abby :)
Sorry I was gone there a couple days - computer stuff ....windows 2000 to XP reimage - it's scary!
So that's interesting that the MRI is always going to say there is sclerotic and cystic change. Scary to read that for sure. My OS has always done CT scans because I have no soft tissue injuries so I can't compare MRI results.
Kris - don't you have a 2nd OCD they drilled, no graft? Could that be causing your pain? Did the Dr. say anything about that? I'm glad that the graft and osteotomy looks good! Thinking about it, I broke my hand bone pretty bad 5 years ago and it still has a white line in the xray. I have a chip off the edge of my talus shoulder that is not even and will never be. My PT noticed it when he would try inverting my ankle - it just stops as it hits that edge. Time is a good answer as he did about 10x more than what was done to my ankle and it still took me a good 9-10 months to start feeling normal.
Kim - Ignorance is bliss, isn't it! :dizzy: Maybe it's best not to look at the scans? Hopefully the Dr. will clear it up like he did for Kris and tell you everything is looking good! It sounds like you still have a lot of inflamation in the joint? I'll say that my short time NWB has left me with a tighter achilles - can't imagine 2 years in a boot! I'm starting to think that these Dr.'s advising to wait as long as you can stand before OATS might be making some patients worse. If you wait years and your joint continues to break down, you are going to develop arthritis. I hope that is very minimal for you! I'm surprised you didn't know about the plate! I know you have 2 screws - weird you can't see it on an x-ray! Even though there's discouragement, I hope you keep posting!
Hang in there gals and know I care a lot about you and am thinking good thought!
Abby :)
krisj5kids
03-26-2009, 01:56 PM
Kim and Abby,
Kim, keep your chin up. I never did notice pain with arthritis, at least not compared to the OCD pain. I had arthritis cleaned out on 2 surgeries now. I'd take that over the OCD pain any day.
Abby, I think that my dr. is agressive with the rehab because of getting range of motion back. There is good and bad. I've got the pain with walking, but most of my ROM is great. I guess it's hard to find the balance. I had so much ligament and tendon stuff done too that I can see why he'd want me moving it.
Abby, I did have a second OCD that had microfracture done on it for the second time. I didn't see it on the CT, so that's a good sign. I'm hoping that it will just take more time. Whatever I did a couple of weeks ago that made it so painful, did something to make it feel better to walk now. Maybe it was scar tissue or something. Who knows.
Please report back Kim after you see your dr. I've been thinking about you and hope it goes well and you get more answers than me.
Kim, keep your chin up. I never did notice pain with arthritis, at least not compared to the OCD pain. I had arthritis cleaned out on 2 surgeries now. I'd take that over the OCD pain any day.
Abby, I think that my dr. is agressive with the rehab because of getting range of motion back. There is good and bad. I've got the pain with walking, but most of my ROM is great. I guess it's hard to find the balance. I had so much ligament and tendon stuff done too that I can see why he'd want me moving it.
Abby, I did have a second OCD that had microfracture done on it for the second time. I didn't see it on the CT, so that's a good sign. I'm hoping that it will just take more time. Whatever I did a couple of weeks ago that made it so painful, did something to make it feel better to walk now. Maybe it was scar tissue or something. Who knows.
Please report back Kim after you see your dr. I've been thinking about you and hope it goes well and you get more answers than me.
anklehelp
03-27-2009, 06:22 PM
Hello Everyone,
I am now 11 days post op the dreaded OATS procedure. I'm in a hard cast for the next two weeks, then a boot after that. I got off meds two days ago. I have minimal pain, but definitely soreness on my knee, lateral ankle and medial ankle. Just picking up my foot off the pillows will sometimes make my ankle sore. At night, when I fall asleep, sometimes my leg will twitch and it scares me so bad. It feels like I'm kicking my leg up in the air. I can't control it either! What is up with that?
So....after getting more details from my doctor, I got some good and bad news. Good news is, my lesion was half the size from what the MRI stated! So he only took 1 plug from my knee instead of 2. Bad news is, he had to make two incisions on my ankle, one lateral, one medial. Turns out I had PVNS, a nasty form of synnovitis. I had a tumor like mass of gunk (synovium, old blood etc) on the lateral side of my ankle. It even wrapped around posteriorly and partialy to my heel. Wow! He took some pictures and I'm dying to see them at my next visit. I think most of my soreness on my ankle is from the resection of that mess and not so much from the OATS. My doctor said he was pretty aggressive removing it so it won't come back. I just want this to all be over with. I know I still have a long road ahead...at least the surgery part is over with. Wishing you all the best,
Liz :)
I am now 11 days post op the dreaded OATS procedure. I'm in a hard cast for the next two weeks, then a boot after that. I got off meds two days ago. I have minimal pain, but definitely soreness on my knee, lateral ankle and medial ankle. Just picking up my foot off the pillows will sometimes make my ankle sore. At night, when I fall asleep, sometimes my leg will twitch and it scares me so bad. It feels like I'm kicking my leg up in the air. I can't control it either! What is up with that?
So....after getting more details from my doctor, I got some good and bad news. Good news is, my lesion was half the size from what the MRI stated! So he only took 1 plug from my knee instead of 2. Bad news is, he had to make two incisions on my ankle, one lateral, one medial. Turns out I had PVNS, a nasty form of synnovitis. I had a tumor like mass of gunk (synovium, old blood etc) on the lateral side of my ankle. It even wrapped around posteriorly and partialy to my heel. Wow! He took some pictures and I'm dying to see them at my next visit. I think most of my soreness on my ankle is from the resection of that mess and not so much from the OATS. My doctor said he was pretty aggressive removing it so it won't come back. I just want this to all be over with. I know I still have a long road ahead...at least the surgery part is over with. Wishing you all the best,
Liz :)
krisj5kids
03-27-2009, 08:39 PM
Liz,
I'm glad to hear you are doing well pain-wise after surgery. It's good your ankle got cleaned up. I had the synnotivis and tyn-something or another, same thing with tendons. It's weird how much stuff we have going on they find besides what is on the MRI.
The worst part is over for you for sure. Definately good news about the size of the OCD.
I'm glad to hear you are doing well pain-wise after surgery. It's good your ankle got cleaned up. I had the synnotivis and tyn-something or another, same thing with tendons. It's weird how much stuff we have going on they find besides what is on the MRI.
The worst part is over for you for sure. Definately good news about the size of the OCD.
anklehelp
03-27-2009, 10:00 PM
Thanks Kris, I wish I could give you all advice as well, but I'm a newbie with all this! I really appreciate everyone's suggestions though. I'm wondering, how long did your foot feel like it was so swollen it was gonna burst everytime you crutched around? And how long did you ice for? Iced a lot last week but I doubt it got through the bandages, much less a cast!
krisj5kids
03-27-2009, 10:24 PM
Honestly, I can't remember. Probably several weeks before I felt like I could walk around. Probably not until I got out of the hard cast at 6 weeks or so.
It was a pain because it was football season and I wanted so bad to crutch around during my son's games, but no, I had to sit, sit, sit. Once I was in a boot and walking though, I think it felt much better.
It was a pain because it was football season and I wanted so bad to crutch around during my son's games, but no, I had to sit, sit, sit. Once I was in a boot and walking though, I think it felt much better.
naynay6543
03-28-2009, 12:14 AM
Hello Every one , My name is Ranee and I just came across this message board and I am sure glad that I did . I have a stage 4 osteochodral facture to my medial talar dome and I have not had any surgery yet but I do have an appointment on 3/30 with my ankle specialist . I am scared and I want to know the best course of treatment . Drilling,OATS everything . Please Help :angel: Thank You !!! Ranee
Sparksa
03-28-2009, 05:41 AM
Hi Ranee
I had my surgery for OCD in February, all went fine.
For me the first step was to remove the chipped bone, drill in talus to increase the blood flow, no weight bearing for 4-6 weeks, then physio therapy.
Be positive and believe that the drilling will work, all you got to think about is to have the surgery done and recover, but be patient as the recovery will be slow, don't hurry.
I was back home the same day, didn't really had any pain, had a bit of pain next couple of days after the surgery, but was manageable without medication.
Sparksa
I had my surgery for OCD in February, all went fine.
For me the first step was to remove the chipped bone, drill in talus to increase the blood flow, no weight bearing for 4-6 weeks, then physio therapy.
Be positive and believe that the drilling will work, all you got to think about is to have the surgery done and recover, but be patient as the recovery will be slow, don't hurry.
I was back home the same day, didn't really had any pain, had a bit of pain next couple of days after the surgery, but was manageable without medication.
Sparksa
Sparksa
03-28-2009, 05:58 AM
Hi guys :wave:
Had my first PT on Thursday... I'm a bit puzzled...
The PT didn't really know anything about OCD, she even asked me why they took the chipped bone out, coz they could have pin it in :eek: ... then she had to bring up my xrays to see what it was... she put me to move the foot up and down and sideways, after about 5 min of it, she took me to the gym... told me to put weight on both feet equal, then to put more weight on the right foot (the one I had surgery on), then to lift my left foot and balance without any support on the right foot... it did hurt a bit, and heck... had no balance on it, had to keep holding on the bars.
Next she put me to stand on a wood board which was moving backwards and forwards, stand with weight on both feet and try to keep balance in the middle... that was for about 10 min... again it hurt a bit.
Next she put me to stand on a little trampoline and shift the weight from a foot to the other one... now that hurted coz I had no support to keep the foot straight like on the floor and kept moving the ankle on sides.
Next and last, she put me on the bike for 5 min... that was the difficult one, it did hurt as the right foot is not good with this _\ position (donno how else to draw it).
The thing I'm worried about is to don't damage the recovery bone... one would think if is getting damaged will hurt, but I got high pain tolerance... if someone feels it 10-10, I feel it 6-10...
What next?
Sparksa
Had my first PT on Thursday... I'm a bit puzzled...
The PT didn't really know anything about OCD, she even asked me why they took the chipped bone out, coz they could have pin it in :eek: ... then she had to bring up my xrays to see what it was... she put me to move the foot up and down and sideways, after about 5 min of it, she took me to the gym... told me to put weight on both feet equal, then to put more weight on the right foot (the one I had surgery on), then to lift my left foot and balance without any support on the right foot... it did hurt a bit, and heck... had no balance on it, had to keep holding on the bars.
Next she put me to stand on a wood board which was moving backwards and forwards, stand with weight on both feet and try to keep balance in the middle... that was for about 10 min... again it hurt a bit.
Next she put me to stand on a little trampoline and shift the weight from a foot to the other one... now that hurted coz I had no support to keep the foot straight like on the floor and kept moving the ankle on sides.
Next and last, she put me on the bike for 5 min... that was the difficult one, it did hurt as the right foot is not good with this _\ position (donno how else to draw it).
The thing I'm worried about is to don't damage the recovery bone... one would think if is getting damaged will hurt, but I got high pain tolerance... if someone feels it 10-10, I feel it 6-10...
What next?
Sparksa
krisj5kids
03-28-2009, 08:31 AM
How many weeks out are you? Did you have microfracture done or OATS, I can't remember.
I'd call your OS and talk to him. I found that many if not most, PT's don't know much about OCD lesions. Heck, mine hadn't even seen much of anything I had done before. So, I had my PT and my dr. chat. They actually talked on the phone and my PT actually went to my dr.'s office to discuss my case. I guess he figured it would help him in the long run with future cases. Point being though, that if you feel like it was too much, check with your dr. Usually they just check "treat" whatever on the PT form and so your PT can decide. Not very often does a dr. tell what to actually do in PT.
It sounds like your PT is very aggressive. If it doesn't feel or sound right then check with your dr. about your pt's plan.
I'd call your OS and talk to him. I found that many if not most, PT's don't know much about OCD lesions. Heck, mine hadn't even seen much of anything I had done before. So, I had my PT and my dr. chat. They actually talked on the phone and my PT actually went to my dr.'s office to discuss my case. I guess he figured it would help him in the long run with future cases. Point being though, that if you feel like it was too much, check with your dr. Usually they just check "treat" whatever on the PT form and so your PT can decide. Not very often does a dr. tell what to actually do in PT.
It sounds like your PT is very aggressive. If it doesn't feel or sound right then check with your dr. about your pt's plan.
Sparksa
03-28-2009, 09:10 AM
I'm 6 weeks now... OCD, drilling and microfracture (OS told me about microfracture when I saw him last time, had no idea about it)...
The things that I worry about are 1. the PT putting me on things which are unstable for my ankle, and if I step wrong I might damage the recovering bone... shouldn't they give me something to support my ankle from side motion (inversion/eversion)? 2. The high pain tolerance, might hurt something and not feel it...
Sparksa
The things that I worry about are 1. the PT putting me on things which are unstable for my ankle, and if I step wrong I might damage the recovering bone... shouldn't they give me something to support my ankle from side motion (inversion/eversion)? 2. The high pain tolerance, might hurt something and not feel it...
Sparksa
anklehelp
03-28-2009, 11:07 AM
Hello Every one , My name is Ranee and I just came across this message board and I am sure glad that I did . I have a stage 4 osteochodral facture to my medial talar dome and I have not had any surgery yet but I do have an appointment on 3/30 with my ankle specialist . I am scared and I want to know the best course of treatment . Drilling,OATS everything . Please Help :angel: Thank You !!! Ranee
Hi Ranee, I think the best treatment for you depends on the size of your lesion. Do you know the size? My doctor originally thought mine was 18 mm. When I had surgery, it was actually 9 mm. That is too large for microfracture or drilling according to my dr. So I had OATS. I am 12 days post op. I know this is scary. I went through what you're feeling just two months ago. It's awful. But know that you're not alone, and the girls on this thread are so kind and helpful with tips, insight and inspiration. Best wishes to you, liz.
Hi Ranee, I think the best treatment for you depends on the size of your lesion. Do you know the size? My doctor originally thought mine was 18 mm. When I had surgery, it was actually 9 mm. That is too large for microfracture or drilling according to my dr. So I had OATS. I am 12 days post op. I know this is scary. I went through what you're feeling just two months ago. It's awful. But know that you're not alone, and the girls on this thread are so kind and helpful with tips, insight and inspiration. Best wishes to you, liz.
krisj5kids
03-28-2009, 12:34 PM
Ranee,
You do need to talk with your dr. I went with the microfracture first and then, when it didn't work, the OATS. My lesion was 1cm they did the oats on. If you can get away with microfracture working then I'd try that. See what your dr. says though. He'd know best what would work in your situation.
Sparksa,
I'd definately call your dr. and talk to him about what your pt is doing. If you didn't have any ligament or tendon work done, then I wouldn't worry about stabilization as much as the pounding. Let your doc know what pt is doing and ask him if it is okay.
You do need to talk with your dr. I went with the microfracture first and then, when it didn't work, the OATS. My lesion was 1cm they did the oats on. If you can get away with microfracture working then I'd try that. See what your dr. says though. He'd know best what would work in your situation.
Sparksa,
I'd definately call your dr. and talk to him about what your pt is doing. If you didn't have any ligament or tendon work done, then I wouldn't worry about stabilization as much as the pounding. Let your doc know what pt is doing and ask him if it is okay.
kimberp
03-28-2009, 04:21 PM
Sparksa,
:wave:
HOLY SMOKES! What does your PT have you doing???????????
Talk to your doctor, in my opinion you are doing WAY TOO much at your first PT after drilling. Geez, after mine we weren't doing some of that even after a few months!!
My PT has 3 offices and in the business for 25 years and never had an OCD patient either so he relies on what my OS tells him to do and not do. I would talk to your OS asap and have him write down specifically what can/can't be done. In my opinion this is WAYYYYYYY too aggressive!
I'd hate for your drilling not to work and would hate even more if you needed to have OATS because of an ill-informed physical therapist. Talk to your OS before you go to PT again.
Good luck!
Kim :)
:wave:
HOLY SMOKES! What does your PT have you doing???????????
Talk to your doctor, in my opinion you are doing WAY TOO much at your first PT after drilling. Geez, after mine we weren't doing some of that even after a few months!!
My PT has 3 offices and in the business for 25 years and never had an OCD patient either so he relies on what my OS tells him to do and not do. I would talk to your OS asap and have him write down specifically what can/can't be done. In my opinion this is WAYYYYYYY too aggressive!
I'd hate for your drilling not to work and would hate even more if you needed to have OATS because of an ill-informed physical therapist. Talk to your OS before you go to PT again.
Good luck!
Kim :)
naynay6543
03-28-2009, 07:58 PM
Hello Everyone ,
I am not sure I have not gotten my 2nd MRI back yet . from what the doc said is that one of the crowns of the talas is completely sheared off and floting in my joint . the first doc misdiagnosed treatment and now almost a year later I have to have surgery . I am so mad !!! You guys seam so smart I am glad that I found you all . Thank You Ranee
I am not sure I have not gotten my 2nd MRI back yet . from what the doc said is that one of the crowns of the talas is completely sheared off and floting in my joint . the first doc misdiagnosed treatment and now almost a year later I have to have surgery . I am so mad !!! You guys seam so smart I am glad that I found you all . Thank You Ranee
naynay6543
03-28-2009, 08:02 PM
Hello anklehelp are you out there?
dizzizzi99
03-28-2009, 08:56 PM
Sparksa, Wow I had drilling done 2x and that theropy is pretty tough. I think my first few times all they did was massage and I used these giant rubber bands to pull my foot in different directions. They did not put weight on it for a while. Only in the pool where your weight is 10% or so. Yep call the doc. Best wishes, take care.
Welcome Ranee, Sorry your here. Good luck at your appointment. Is it like a broken talus or a worn out spot. Sounds painful. Love it when they go oops hey stop walking we messed up. Yeah, it was once all in my head.
Liz Congrats you sound so good. I'm so glad the lesion was not as big. One plug is better than 2 thats for sure. I remember having sausage toes for a while. Keep elevated and iced even if it seems like it wont go thru the cast. I remember the twitching too. Its almost like the first MRI when you have to stay still and you think your going to twitch. I think its a natural reaction to non movement. My staples rubbed against the cast I was VERY happy to get it off. Remember you will swell. They told me it is normal for 8 months even a year before they will think there is a problem. So relax and chill or chillax :) and rent a ton of movies and eat a ton of low cal popcorn. Take care.
Diane
Welcome Ranee, Sorry your here. Good luck at your appointment. Is it like a broken talus or a worn out spot. Sounds painful. Love it when they go oops hey stop walking we messed up. Yeah, it was once all in my head.
Liz Congrats you sound so good. I'm so glad the lesion was not as big. One plug is better than 2 thats for sure. I remember having sausage toes for a while. Keep elevated and iced even if it seems like it wont go thru the cast. I remember the twitching too. Its almost like the first MRI when you have to stay still and you think your going to twitch. I think its a natural reaction to non movement. My staples rubbed against the cast I was VERY happy to get it off. Remember you will swell. They told me it is normal for 8 months even a year before they will think there is a problem. So relax and chill or chillax :) and rent a ton of movies and eat a ton of low cal popcorn. Take care.
Diane
Sparksa
03-29-2009, 04:27 PM
Kim :wave: Kris :wave: Dizz :wave:
There is no way for me to contact the OS, here in UK they don't talk with you over the phone (like they are royalty or something), I will see him on 21st of April when I have the next appointment.
In the mean time... after the PT I started to walk a bit in the house without crutches... only a few steps like going to the toilet and so, it doesn't hurt, but I do walk with a limp...
I'm thinking to give a miss to the PT till I see my OS and get a list of what I should do or not do, like Kim said... will be really annoying to get the drilling screwed up coz of a PT who doesn't know what she's doing... I'm not worried about getting my ankle stiff, I'll keep moving it and exercising, and I got over flexible joints, that's why I got OCD in the first place, the ankles not strong enough to hold if I step wrong (which happens quite alot) and in time damaged the talus.... I'm seriously thinking to ask for something for ankle support...
What exercises were you guys doing? and is swimming ok? I might start to go to the pool if that helps.
Sparks
There is no way for me to contact the OS, here in UK they don't talk with you over the phone (like they are royalty or something), I will see him on 21st of April when I have the next appointment.
In the mean time... after the PT I started to walk a bit in the house without crutches... only a few steps like going to the toilet and so, it doesn't hurt, but I do walk with a limp...
I'm thinking to give a miss to the PT till I see my OS and get a list of what I should do or not do, like Kim said... will be really annoying to get the drilling screwed up coz of a PT who doesn't know what she's doing... I'm not worried about getting my ankle stiff, I'll keep moving it and exercising, and I got over flexible joints, that's why I got OCD in the first place, the ankles not strong enough to hold if I step wrong (which happens quite alot) and in time damaged the talus.... I'm seriously thinking to ask for something for ankle support...
What exercises were you guys doing? and is swimming ok? I might start to go to the pool if that helps.
Sparks
anklehelp
03-29-2009, 06:39 PM
Hey Ranee, I think many of us who had ocds were also misdiagnosed. I know it's frustrating, I just think there aren't a whole lot of people with this problem so it's easily missed :( I think I read somewhere it was 20,000 people a year? Not sure. I think I went 3 years not knowing what the heck was wrong with my ankle. It was swollen all the time, it would hurt when going up stairs or jumping. The first doctor said I had lax ligaments from an ankle sprain. Wrong. The second doctor I saw two years later told me I had a small OCD but really really downplayed it and sent me to PT and said she didnt recommend microfracture. It makes me mad now because maybe I could have gotten that then instead of OATS now. And just a year and a half later than that, I finally know what was going on in there! I saw five doctors this past January
because I didn't know what the best treatment for me would
be. Out of the five, one said microfracture, another said
debridement and a scope, and the remaining three said OATS,
if not now, later but said my ankle could get worse if I didn't act soon. I went with the OATS because I didn't want this to get worse and it made more sense in my case. This was my very first surgery btw. I would talk to your dr., and get a 2nd, 3rd and even 4th opinion if you need it before deciding what to do.
Liz (anklehelp)
because I didn't know what the best treatment for me would
be. Out of the five, one said microfracture, another said
debridement and a scope, and the remaining three said OATS,
if not now, later but said my ankle could get worse if I didn't act soon. I went with the OATS because I didn't want this to get worse and it made more sense in my case. This was my very first surgery btw. I would talk to your dr., and get a 2nd, 3rd and even 4th opinion if you need it before deciding what to do.
Liz (anklehelp)
krisj5kids
03-29-2009, 07:58 PM
Sparks,
Can you call and get an earlier appt? Your PT seems to be a bit agressive. I'm just doing strength exercises and ROM at my PT. He also does U/S and a thing called cupping which breakes up scar tissue. He also does massage. I do so much activity out of PT, that we really work on the stuff I can't do at home, like the cupping.
Can you leave a message with your dr. office? Even if he doesn't talk to you on the phone, surely you can leave a message that he needs to talk to your pt?
Can you call and get an earlier appt? Your PT seems to be a bit agressive. I'm just doing strength exercises and ROM at my PT. He also does U/S and a thing called cupping which breakes up scar tissue. He also does massage. I do so much activity out of PT, that we really work on the stuff I can't do at home, like the cupping.
Can you leave a message with your dr. office? Even if he doesn't talk to you on the phone, surely you can leave a message that he needs to talk to your pt?
anklehelp
03-29-2009, 09:04 PM
Thanks for the insight Diane! I've been watching a lot of tv for sure! I'm also trying to get caught up on school work in bed or on the couch, but it makes my back hurt. I gotta find some new positions or pillow adjustments, my back is not too happy from sitting and laying!
krisj5kids
03-31-2009, 08:30 AM
Hey guys,
This is so "Kris". Sunday night I was taking the dog out and fell down the back deck steps. I caught my foot somehow and anyway, it hurts. I have an appt. this morning. I'm scared to go because I don't know what he'll say. Hopefully he'll be in a better mood than last Wed. afternoon. He was in rare form then.
This is so "Kris". Sunday night I was taking the dog out and fell down the back deck steps. I caught my foot somehow and anyway, it hurts. I have an appt. this morning. I'm scared to go because I don't know what he'll say. Hopefully he'll be in a better mood than last Wed. afternoon. He was in rare form then.
krisj5kids
03-31-2009, 12:52 PM
Back in a boot for a couple of days until it calms down, then the brace ALL THE TIME, so he says.
The appt. went much better today. He was a like a whole different person first thing in the morning.
He said the pain in my back behind the medial malleolous was my PTT and that often times that causes pain when people change their gate after surgery. He thought maybe, in time, it would get better. THe OCT site apparently, is where my most pain was after the fall. Again, give it time. My ankle was still stable, but my ligaments were very sore. Peroneal tendon extremely sore.
I asked him about my dorsiflexion and the lack therof and he said the 10 degrees was good for after surgery.
I asked him about the osteotomy site and the pain I'm having there which is my chief complaint and he said the plate and screws are where I'm pointing to and he can feel them under the skin and that we may need to take them out down the road. I mentioned the pain to him and I said, "I know you said it was perfect." referring to the osteotomy site and he just said, "Your ankle will never be perfect." and that he wants it to be good, but that "Most guys wouldn't have attempted to fix it (the ankle) because they don't want to deal with the post-op of it all.
I go back in 6 weeks now to check on the ankle. The boot is helping me get around as it was killing me to try and go about my day with the kids yesterday and this morning. The pains kept waking me up.
So that's where I am. I feel better after the appt. today than I did last week. He actually explained stuff better and didn't have an attitude.
The appt. went much better today. He was a like a whole different person first thing in the morning.
He said the pain in my back behind the medial malleolous was my PTT and that often times that causes pain when people change their gate after surgery. He thought maybe, in time, it would get better. THe OCT site apparently, is where my most pain was after the fall. Again, give it time. My ankle was still stable, but my ligaments were very sore. Peroneal tendon extremely sore.
I asked him about my dorsiflexion and the lack therof and he said the 10 degrees was good for after surgery.
I asked him about the osteotomy site and the pain I'm having there which is my chief complaint and he said the plate and screws are where I'm pointing to and he can feel them under the skin and that we may need to take them out down the road. I mentioned the pain to him and I said, "I know you said it was perfect." referring to the osteotomy site and he just said, "Your ankle will never be perfect." and that he wants it to be good, but that "Most guys wouldn't have attempted to fix it (the ankle) because they don't want to deal with the post-op of it all.
I go back in 6 weeks now to check on the ankle. The boot is helping me get around as it was killing me to try and go about my day with the kids yesterday and this morning. The pains kept waking me up.
So that's where I am. I feel better after the appt. today than I did last week. He actually explained stuff better and didn't have an attitude.
akirka
03-31-2009, 03:04 PM
Kris,
Scary falling down the stairs! I just saw an article about how many 100,000's of people per year fall because of their pets! Glad it seems it's just inflammed - no damage.
Liz - I'm glad you're over the worst of it! I like you had minimal pain, my knee being the worst of it. The worst thing for me I didn't expect was the feeling of my foot exploding if I put it down for even one minute. I bet I was like that for 6 weeks, with it lingering for a total of 5 months. Thank God I had my surgery in the winter while it was cold - summer heat would have made that way worse. Also when I put my foot down it would turn this ugly dark purple. Once I got the hard cast off that improved but my foot was purple for about 5 months. I've heard putting an ice pack behind your knee helps with ankle swelling and gets around the cast. Laying around killed my back like you say. I finally started elevating both of my legs equally so it wouldn't strain my back so much. That PVNS sounds crazy - never heard of it. Getting that removed has got to make your ankle feel better for sure. I'm so glad the OCD was much smaller than expected. Mine was the opposite - if I asked any surgery questions they would just keep saying how huge it was.
So tomorrow I'm going to see my ankle Dr. about my knee. I went to make an appt. with a different ortho Dr. who's closer but after reading my surgery notes his office called and said it may be best to see someone else! I was like, ok. After getting off the phone I realized my surgery actually intimidated him - :p Well at least he was honest. So I called my ankle OS to see if she would look at my knee since she knows exactly what was done and she said yes. My ankle feels so great now, but my knee holds me back when I'm doing things. Pretty ironic but I would still do the OATS for sure knowing how good my ankle is now. It's like when they dug around in there, my kneecap doesn't track correctly now. I think the donor site is just fine, but the popping of my kneecap gets very painful at times. There's probably nothing they can do about it but I'll find out.
Have a good day ladies!
Abby :)
Scary falling down the stairs! I just saw an article about how many 100,000's of people per year fall because of their pets! Glad it seems it's just inflammed - no damage.
Liz - I'm glad you're over the worst of it! I like you had minimal pain, my knee being the worst of it. The worst thing for me I didn't expect was the feeling of my foot exploding if I put it down for even one minute. I bet I was like that for 6 weeks, with it lingering for a total of 5 months. Thank God I had my surgery in the winter while it was cold - summer heat would have made that way worse. Also when I put my foot down it would turn this ugly dark purple. Once I got the hard cast off that improved but my foot was purple for about 5 months. I've heard putting an ice pack behind your knee helps with ankle swelling and gets around the cast. Laying around killed my back like you say. I finally started elevating both of my legs equally so it wouldn't strain my back so much. That PVNS sounds crazy - never heard of it. Getting that removed has got to make your ankle feel better for sure. I'm so glad the OCD was much smaller than expected. Mine was the opposite - if I asked any surgery questions they would just keep saying how huge it was.
So tomorrow I'm going to see my ankle Dr. about my knee. I went to make an appt. with a different ortho Dr. who's closer but after reading my surgery notes his office called and said it may be best to see someone else! I was like, ok. After getting off the phone I realized my surgery actually intimidated him - :p Well at least he was honest. So I called my ankle OS to see if she would look at my knee since she knows exactly what was done and she said yes. My ankle feels so great now, but my knee holds me back when I'm doing things. Pretty ironic but I would still do the OATS for sure knowing how good my ankle is now. It's like when they dug around in there, my kneecap doesn't track correctly now. I think the donor site is just fine, but the popping of my kneecap gets very painful at times. There's probably nothing they can do about it but I'll find out.
Have a good day ladies!
Abby :)
Sparksa
03-31-2009, 04:21 PM
Kris :wave: Poor you... you feeling better now? Next you take the dog for a walk get in the aircast... just to make sure you don't damage anything :)
Called the OS's secretary the other day, the OS is on hols, but she was really nice and contacted another OS, explained him what and how, and he said that all the PT should do now, is ankle ROM and NWB... that untill I go back to see my PT at the end of April, also the secretary said if the PT got any questions, to contact her.
Thanks for advise guys :)
Sparks
Called the OS's secretary the other day, the OS is on hols, but she was really nice and contacted another OS, explained him what and how, and he said that all the PT should do now, is ankle ROM and NWB... that untill I go back to see my PT at the end of April, also the secretary said if the PT got any questions, to contact her.
Thanks for advise guys :)
Sparks
kimberp
03-31-2009, 05:00 PM
Sparksa,
Good news, glad you got that cleared up. As for ROM, just UP and DOWN only, no side to side or circles for awhile. Repeat, UP and DOWN only!!!!
Kris,
Sorry to hear about your mishap! Glad to hear you didn't do any permanent damage and also glad to hear your OSs attitude was much improved from your last visit. ;)
I too had an 'animal' mishap the other day ... picture this ... I am getting ready for a routine GYN appt (I can admit all my other drs appts have been put off during the last year as I concentrate on this darn foot) so I took the boot off and put on the aircast (because we KNOW the boot isn't going to fit in the stirrups ;) and I am walking like quasi moto to my car and my husband is talking to me out our front door and FLASH -- my indoor cat, who will NEVER and should NEVER go outside runs out the open door ... I, of course, yell at my husband who wasn't paying attention and proceed to run after my cat ... I guess the adrenalin of the potential of our baby getting hurt took over because although my run wasn't at all pretty, the pain I was in was nothing compared to worrying about my cat. 20 mins later, after diving into hedges, I got my cat, but needless to say haven't been off painkillers since (and this was last Friday). Whatever is aggravated in my foot is now on a mission to kill me! Thankfully I see my OS this Friday but HOLY S%$$# that was smarts!
Abby - Sorry to hear about your knee, please keep us posted on what your doctor says .. (curious if perhaps scar tissue building back up is causing an issue with your kneecap.)
Ok, so much for my not posting, huh??
Kim :)
Good news, glad you got that cleared up. As for ROM, just UP and DOWN only, no side to side or circles for awhile. Repeat, UP and DOWN only!!!!
Kris,
Sorry to hear about your mishap! Glad to hear you didn't do any permanent damage and also glad to hear your OSs attitude was much improved from your last visit. ;)
I too had an 'animal' mishap the other day ... picture this ... I am getting ready for a routine GYN appt (I can admit all my other drs appts have been put off during the last year as I concentrate on this darn foot) so I took the boot off and put on the aircast (because we KNOW the boot isn't going to fit in the stirrups ;) and I am walking like quasi moto to my car and my husband is talking to me out our front door and FLASH -- my indoor cat, who will NEVER and should NEVER go outside runs out the open door ... I, of course, yell at my husband who wasn't paying attention and proceed to run after my cat ... I guess the adrenalin of the potential of our baby getting hurt took over because although my run wasn't at all pretty, the pain I was in was nothing compared to worrying about my cat. 20 mins later, after diving into hedges, I got my cat, but needless to say haven't been off painkillers since (and this was last Friday). Whatever is aggravated in my foot is now on a mission to kill me! Thankfully I see my OS this Friday but HOLY S%$$# that was smarts!
Abby - Sorry to hear about your knee, please keep us posted on what your doctor says .. (curious if perhaps scar tissue building back up is causing an issue with your kneecap.)
Ok, so much for my not posting, huh??
Kim :)
krisj5kids
03-31-2009, 05:22 PM
Sparks- glad you got a chance to talk to your OS office about PT> Hopefully now they have the correct game plan things will go better for you.
Abby, dang, sorry about your knee. Isn't it frustrating to have your knee hurt to fix your ankle? I hope they find a real easy solution to fix it. Interesting though about your OS office saying you should see someone else. I never realized how odd or big our cases are. My dr. said today that most guys wouldn't have touched my ankle (can't remember if I posted that, sorry if a repeat) and I guess he is right. Probably explains why his most common answer to my questions is I don't know.
Kim,
If I didn't know how much your ankle is killing you, I'd laugh at the cat incident. Adreniline really takes over, huh? At least you already have an appt. set up for Friday. No more taking your boot off until Friday, 'kay?
Abby, dang, sorry about your knee. Isn't it frustrating to have your knee hurt to fix your ankle? I hope they find a real easy solution to fix it. Interesting though about your OS office saying you should see someone else. I never realized how odd or big our cases are. My dr. said today that most guys wouldn't have touched my ankle (can't remember if I posted that, sorry if a repeat) and I guess he is right. Probably explains why his most common answer to my questions is I don't know.
Kim,
If I didn't know how much your ankle is killing you, I'd laugh at the cat incident. Adreniline really takes over, huh? At least you already have an appt. set up for Friday. No more taking your boot off until Friday, 'kay?
dbast
04-01-2009, 12:08 PM
Sorry to hear of everyone's misfortunes. Sometimes I wonder if reading all of this is good for me or not!!! :eek: Totally Kidding!
Abby - that is the exact reason I am finally getting comfortable with the whole cadaver thing with my upcoming OATS. At first I was like, Hell no!! I don't want anyone elses bones! But, now I am leaning more towards leaving my good joints alone. Apparently, with the size of this lesion, I don't have a choice anyway but I am definately okay now with leaving my knee out of this. Let us know what the doc says.
Kim and Kris - OMG!!! You two are making me believe the doc when he says it will be a full two year recovery. This makes me want to quit working and sit at home for the next two years! I think this procedure should come with a gym membership at the end of it b/c of all the extra weight we will put on due to the lack of activity they want us to do! Hang in there girls, there is a light at the end!
My Os is starting the insurance portion of this as of yesterday's office visit. I don't think we will set a date until we get approval from the ins co. He also said he didn't want to schedule this until checking his "personal calendar." I looked at him real funny and he said he doesn't want to do this to me on a Friday (his only surgery day) and be going out of town right after, he said he wants to make sure he is going to be here in case I need anything... pretty cool! That impressed me. He also said he is going into this as a 23 hour inpatient procedure. I'm not sure how that will go after listening to you guys, but being in the medical field, I know that if I feel like I need to stay all I have to do is say that my pain is a 6 or more and they can't sent me home. BTW, I did ask him how many of these he has done and he said he does 2 or 3 a year, but said he has never seen/done one as big as mine. So, I don't know if the experience really matters at this point. So, that is my update for now.
Abby - that is the exact reason I am finally getting comfortable with the whole cadaver thing with my upcoming OATS. At first I was like, Hell no!! I don't want anyone elses bones! But, now I am leaning more towards leaving my good joints alone. Apparently, with the size of this lesion, I don't have a choice anyway but I am definately okay now with leaving my knee out of this. Let us know what the doc says.
Kim and Kris - OMG!!! You two are making me believe the doc when he says it will be a full two year recovery. This makes me want to quit working and sit at home for the next two years! I think this procedure should come with a gym membership at the end of it b/c of all the extra weight we will put on due to the lack of activity they want us to do! Hang in there girls, there is a light at the end!
My Os is starting the insurance portion of this as of yesterday's office visit. I don't think we will set a date until we get approval from the ins co. He also said he didn't want to schedule this until checking his "personal calendar." I looked at him real funny and he said he doesn't want to do this to me on a Friday (his only surgery day) and be going out of town right after, he said he wants to make sure he is going to be here in case I need anything... pretty cool! That impressed me. He also said he is going into this as a 23 hour inpatient procedure. I'm not sure how that will go after listening to you guys, but being in the medical field, I know that if I feel like I need to stay all I have to do is say that my pain is a 6 or more and they can't sent me home. BTW, I did ask him how many of these he has done and he said he does 2 or 3 a year, but said he has never seen/done one as big as mine. So, I don't know if the experience really matters at this point. So, that is my update for now.
krisj5kids
04-01-2009, 12:32 PM
Well, sounds like you got things pretty figured out. I was freaked out when I was told I"d have cadavar tendons put in me, but my dr. assured me that they were safe and cadavar parts are used all the time. And you are right, you will save your knee. The knee part immediately after surgery was the most painful for me.
Good luck with the insurance. Seems like you have a great dr. I doubt there are too many dr.s in the U.S. that do these on a weekly basis. At least he is freeing up his weekend after surgery to be there. My dr. wanted to do the 23 hr deal too. I found out my insurance would pay for 3 days and I just flat out told him 3 days and I needed every bit of it too. I think they don't do this too often and probably aren't used to keeping many patients past 23 hrs. When my dr. told me he never did all the procedures he did on me on a patient at one time I asked him how he could then say he always does this as outpatient. He didn't argue with me about the stay and never brought up going home before 3 days. My pain was way more than 6 anyway. I never heard that about the above 6 level. That's an interesting thing to know.
Good luck with the insurance. Seems like you have a great dr. I doubt there are too many dr.s in the U.S. that do these on a weekly basis. At least he is freeing up his weekend after surgery to be there. My dr. wanted to do the 23 hr deal too. I found out my insurance would pay for 3 days and I just flat out told him 3 days and I needed every bit of it too. I think they don't do this too often and probably aren't used to keeping many patients past 23 hrs. When my dr. told me he never did all the procedures he did on me on a patient at one time I asked him how he could then say he always does this as outpatient. He didn't argue with me about the stay and never brought up going home before 3 days. My pain was way more than 6 anyway. I never heard that about the above 6 level. That's an interesting thing to know.
dbast
04-01-2009, 05:15 PM
I just s/w the office and the billing lady said that there isn't a code specific for the allograft on the ankle yet b/c it has not been done enough (or something to that sort) so they are billing this under a drilling code (he will do drilling as well) and an "unlisted" code. She said the unlisted code allows them to do whatever they need to, it's like an umbrella code. She said the doc has to provide supporting documentation for what he plans on doing and they will approve/deny according to that. So, we'll see. I did also ask her about what if I need more than the 23 hours, and she said he wrote down 23 hour with option of regular admit and that it would be up to me. According to her, if I want to stay longer, he will okay it. Well, this Friday will be seven weeks out if all goes as planned with the insurance and the donor part is viable. So, I will probably post a little more often between now and then as my level of anxiety goes up. I told my Husband today that seven weeks is less than two months (as if he couldn't do the math himself!!) and that is much more scary than when it was 3 or 4 months out....he just shakes his head and tells me I'm crazy!!
krisj5kids
04-02-2009, 08:53 AM
Good thing you are checking into the codes. I had one code approved after many review boards and then when my dr. did the surgery, they billed it under another and now the insurance won't pay. I've called the office so many times to tell them to just bill the thing under the approved code and they don't do it. They keep billing the same code. I may have to go in and have a word with someone and show them the paper, although I know they have it too.
When I got the approval letter from my insurance I called the precert lady and she told me how long my stay was approved for.
I remember my anxiety. It's all written down here on the boards somewhere. It'll turn out okay though. My post op pain was really bad for only a day or so. If they offer you a nerve block, take it. It's like an epidural for the leg and it was wonderful.
When I got the approval letter from my insurance I called the precert lady and she told me how long my stay was approved for.
I remember my anxiety. It's all written down here on the boards somewhere. It'll turn out okay though. My post op pain was really bad for only a day or so. If they offer you a nerve block, take it. It's like an epidural for the leg and it was wonderful.
bumankle
04-02-2009, 10:57 AM
dbast - my doctor too submitted this under an 'unlisted code' bc i guess there is not one for allograft or autograft of the ankle. it was denied though and I have been fighting insurance for 3 months now. However, my doc has now submitted new codes that are listed and is basically billing the oats under something else. so if everything goes as planned and i get my approval letter...my oats is scheduled for april 20th! almost 2 weeks! It will be interesting too see what your insurance will do about the codes. Through all of our experiences you'd think insurance companies would start approving this...hopefully those who need this in the future will have it easier!
dbast
04-02-2009, 10:00 PM
I will have a nerve block, at least at the hospital. I don't think I will go home with it though. But, I'll take what I can get. He did encourage me to go ahead and purchase a boot. Any suggestions on which one to buy. I am kinda looking at the body armor one that is made by jensen medical supply. It just looks cooler and as retarded as the other ones (no offense). But, in researching them, I have found that there are: non filled (air), pre filled which is filled with a fixed amount of air, ones where I could increase or decrease the amount of air in it and ones that have a locking mechanism for changing the angle of the ankle. I know it is vain, but I really don't like the look of the ones with velcro...the body armor one has closures on it more like a ski boot and actually looks more stable and protective than the velcro ones, so it's not only about the look. ;) So, I guess I will purchase one next week.
Bumankle - are you having the autograft or allograft?? I have the code for the autograft of the ankle, but there is not one for the allograft of the ankle yet.
Dawn
Bumankle - are you having the autograft or allograft?? I have the code for the autograft of the ankle, but there is not one for the allograft of the ankle yet.
Dawn
krisj5kids
04-03-2009, 09:55 AM
Dawn,
I responded to your thread on a different site about the boot. Doesn't your insurance cover the boot? My dr. has them at the office and billed the insurance and since after surgery I had hit my out of pocket, it didn't cost me anything.
I responded to your thread on a different site about the boot. Doesn't your insurance cover the boot? My dr. has them at the office and billed the insurance and since after surgery I had hit my out of pocket, it didn't cost me anything.
bumankle
04-03-2009, 10:10 AM
I am having the autograph. The first code they submitted for autograft was unlisted and denied twice. Now they resubmitted 3 different codes and apparently they all will get approved but I havent received the official letter yet. As far as the boot...i was expecting my doc to provide that. i have one of those old grey moon-boot looking velcro ones w the air pump! Its so old though, I will have to get a new one as well.
Sparksa
04-03-2009, 10:41 AM
Hi guys :wave:
Kim :wave: Kris :wave: you guys feeling better?
Been to the PT today, told her what the OS's secretary said, and we both agreed that makes not sens to go see her untill I see my OS again and give me a PT protocol... so the PT showed me what to do at home and gave me 2 tera-bands... tried them when I got home, only one is good, the other one is too soft... but hey, it feels good...
The other day I was getting on the bus to go to a course, I was in my normal shoes, coz I'm not FWB and the OS didn't give me a cast yet (mind you I got one at home)... it rained and the damn crutch slipped, so I slammed my foot into the ground to regain balance... the only problem is... it was the bad foot... maaaaaaan did it hurt... still hurting a bit, but didn't swell up, so I take it it's a good sign... can't see my OS till 21st when he's back from holiday and have app with him.
Me one is wearing the cast from now on until I see him... and I hope he'll give me a brace or something...
Sparks
Kim :wave: Kris :wave: you guys feeling better?
Been to the PT today, told her what the OS's secretary said, and we both agreed that makes not sens to go see her untill I see my OS again and give me a PT protocol... so the PT showed me what to do at home and gave me 2 tera-bands... tried them when I got home, only one is good, the other one is too soft... but hey, it feels good...
The other day I was getting on the bus to go to a course, I was in my normal shoes, coz I'm not FWB and the OS didn't give me a cast yet (mind you I got one at home)... it rained and the damn crutch slipped, so I slammed my foot into the ground to regain balance... the only problem is... it was the bad foot... maaaaaaan did it hurt... still hurting a bit, but didn't swell up, so I take it it's a good sign... can't see my OS till 21st when he's back from holiday and have app with him.
Me one is wearing the cast from now on until I see him... and I hope he'll give me a brace or something...
Sparks
krisj5kids
04-03-2009, 11:37 AM
Sparks, Ouch, sounds like we've had a week of accidents. At least it didn't swell up too much. that's a good sign.
Kim, today's your big dr. appt. day. Please post how it went.
Kim, today's your big dr. appt. day. Please post how it went.
kimberp
04-03-2009, 06:55 PM
Hi guys ...
Well, no big news from my appointment today ... good or bad.
He gave me a cortisone & lidocaine injection in the joint below my talus (where the MRI said is inflammed) and we were looking to see if I had a few hours of pain relief from the lidocaine .. I didn't.
I had to call him back 2 hours after my appt to let him know if I felt good and I had to tell him I felt no different, which shows that it is not that joint causing me pain. I now have to go back in 2 weeks for another lidocaine injection into my ankle joint where the plugs are and again if I feel pain free for those few hours, we know that is hurting me. He didn't say this but I can't imagine we want it to be that joint that is hurting me, right?
I kinda now wish it was my achilles that came up aggravated .. then I know how it would be treated ... not sure if I should be concerned yet that 'somewhere' in the joint is inflammed.
Until then, I am back on NSAID's twice a day and no therapy. He said his main goal is getting me pain free, then we'll worry about the ROM. I asked him if I am going to have a limp for the rest of my life and he said much of what causes the limp is pain, so if we solve that problem much of my limp would be gone. He can't guarantee that I will walk perfectly as I once did, but hopes I can be as close to that as possible. (and of course did say that my foot will NEVER have the ROM it did before my 2 surgeries).
Well, that's the update .. not sure I feel good or bad ... just the same as I did ;)
Kim :)
Well, no big news from my appointment today ... good or bad.
He gave me a cortisone & lidocaine injection in the joint below my talus (where the MRI said is inflammed) and we were looking to see if I had a few hours of pain relief from the lidocaine .. I didn't.
I had to call him back 2 hours after my appt to let him know if I felt good and I had to tell him I felt no different, which shows that it is not that joint causing me pain. I now have to go back in 2 weeks for another lidocaine injection into my ankle joint where the plugs are and again if I feel pain free for those few hours, we know that is hurting me. He didn't say this but I can't imagine we want it to be that joint that is hurting me, right?
I kinda now wish it was my achilles that came up aggravated .. then I know how it would be treated ... not sure if I should be concerned yet that 'somewhere' in the joint is inflammed.
Until then, I am back on NSAID's twice a day and no therapy. He said his main goal is getting me pain free, then we'll worry about the ROM. I asked him if I am going to have a limp for the rest of my life and he said much of what causes the limp is pain, so if we solve that problem much of my limp would be gone. He can't guarantee that I will walk perfectly as I once did, but hopes I can be as close to that as possible. (and of course did say that my foot will NEVER have the ROM it did before my 2 surgeries).
Well, that's the update .. not sure I feel good or bad ... just the same as I did ;)
Kim :)
krisj5kids
04-03-2009, 08:17 PM
Hmmm, I bet you are as frustrated as heck. It sounds like he is just trying to give you lidocane shots to pinpoint the pain spot? I have heard of this done though. I'm sure there is a method to his madness.
My dr. said the same thing about ROM never being the same. Ticks me off, but I guess if I have no pain and less ROM then it would be good in the end.
Did he mention anything about the report and your ocd and OATS? WOndering if he had the same thought process as my dr. on them.
I wish you had more answers. Maybe he'll have more answers for you in 2 weeks.
My dr. said the same thing about ROM never being the same. Ticks me off, but I guess if I have no pain and less ROM then it would be good in the end.
Did he mention anything about the report and your ocd and OATS? WOndering if he had the same thought process as my dr. on them.
I wish you had more answers. Maybe he'll have more answers for you in 2 weeks.
kimberp
04-04-2009, 03:28 PM
Strangely enough, I am not frustrated ... I am not sure why, just numb at this point maybe??
He did say that from what he sees my plugs did incorporate into my talus but he also said any real detail can't be seen because of the blurriness from the plate/screws. He said no film for the rest of my life (or while I have the hardware in) will ever show the detail of what is really happening and the only way to see the detail while the hardware is in, is to go in.
You are right, the lidocaine injections are used to help find where my pain is, and once we figure that out, he will decide how to treat it. That was how we decided it was my OCD that was causing me pain after the drilling ... if I feel great after the injection that was bad .. I would think if that is the case again, it would be bad as that would mean where the plugs are is inflammed for some reason and I'm not sure what would be done to fix that.
He also said that although my films said I had some arthritis in my ankle, he didn't believe that was the case since he's been in twice and didn't see any nor does he believe any developed in the last 7 months.
I'll go back in 2 weeks for the next injection and keep you posted. You'd think at this point I wouldn't break out in a sweat when he pulls out the 2 inch long needle, but I still do. I do feel better today, I am out of the boot and in the brace but on the NSDAIDs which work for me ... still with a bit of a limp and slow, but at least out of the boot.
Have a great weekend everyone,
Kim :)
He did say that from what he sees my plugs did incorporate into my talus but he also said any real detail can't be seen because of the blurriness from the plate/screws. He said no film for the rest of my life (or while I have the hardware in) will ever show the detail of what is really happening and the only way to see the detail while the hardware is in, is to go in.
You are right, the lidocaine injections are used to help find where my pain is, and once we figure that out, he will decide how to treat it. That was how we decided it was my OCD that was causing me pain after the drilling ... if I feel great after the injection that was bad .. I would think if that is the case again, it would be bad as that would mean where the plugs are is inflammed for some reason and I'm not sure what would be done to fix that.
He also said that although my films said I had some arthritis in my ankle, he didn't believe that was the case since he's been in twice and didn't see any nor does he believe any developed in the last 7 months.
I'll go back in 2 weeks for the next injection and keep you posted. You'd think at this point I wouldn't break out in a sweat when he pulls out the 2 inch long needle, but I still do. I do feel better today, I am out of the boot and in the brace but on the NSDAIDs which work for me ... still with a bit of a limp and slow, but at least out of the boot.
Have a great weekend everyone,
Kim :)