addprogrammer
03-25-2009, 04:13 PM
If you have or ever had addiction problems and suspect or know you have ADHD, here is what you MUST do:
1. See a psychiatrist.
2. Be brutally, painfully honest with pdoc.
3. If pdoc prescribles a stimulate, NEVER up the dose without approval.
4. If you violate 3, you must rat on yourself immediately.
Let's assume case 4 to illustrate perfect test if you have a psychiatrist or a bozo shrink working on YOUR brain.
You: Doc, I took a couple three, four extra Adderalls. I need help.
Doc: Why?
You: Well, I wanted to party Friday night and I was feeling low.
Doc flames you and sternly warns you not to do it again or you lose your meds.
OR
You: I was working, couldn't focus, afraid I'd lose job.
Doc: Next time please ask first. Then he adjusts your dose.
If your doctor responds any other way FIRE THE IDIOT on the spot and go find yourself a psychiatrist.
Your job is to be brutally, painfully HONEST.
Doc's job is to believe you and remedy you.
Do like I told you and won't have to worry about readdiction.
I have spoken. Let it be written. Four years worth or hard earned wisdom FREE. Appreciated it.
I got to work. See you'll later.
Bob
1. See a psychiatrist.
2. Be brutally, painfully honest with pdoc.
3. If pdoc prescribles a stimulate, NEVER up the dose without approval.
4. If you violate 3, you must rat on yourself immediately.
Let's assume case 4 to illustrate perfect test if you have a psychiatrist or a bozo shrink working on YOUR brain.
You: Doc, I took a couple three, four extra Adderalls. I need help.
Doc: Why?
You: Well, I wanted to party Friday night and I was feeling low.
Doc flames you and sternly warns you not to do it again or you lose your meds.
OR
You: I was working, couldn't focus, afraid I'd lose job.
Doc: Next time please ask first. Then he adjusts your dose.
If your doctor responds any other way FIRE THE IDIOT on the spot and go find yourself a psychiatrist.
Your job is to be brutally, painfully HONEST.
Doc's job is to believe you and remedy you.
Do like I told you and won't have to worry about readdiction.
I have spoken. Let it be written. Four years worth or hard earned wisdom FREE. Appreciated it.
I got to work. See you'll later.
Bob
Sponsor
janewhite1
03-25-2009, 04:28 PM
As always, Bob, your clear sight is appreciated.
Mistyeyze
03-26-2009, 08:14 PM
Bob I was under the impression that adderall is NOT addictive, and can be stopped at any time with out withdrawl, etc? Is this accurate?
I was also told Lexapro was not addictive, and that was BS, I had physical withdrawl from Lexapro and it lasted MONTHS -- the brain zaps people don't get informed about are very real, I know I went through it.
I told my doctor I did not want to take anything that could cause physical withdrawl!
I was also told Lexapro was not addictive, and that was BS, I had physical withdrawl from Lexapro and it lasted MONTHS -- the brain zaps people don't get informed about are very real, I know I went through it.
I told my doctor I did not want to take anything that could cause physical withdrawl!
janewhite1
03-26-2009, 09:07 PM
ADHD theraputic dosages should not produce significant withdrawl symptoms. You might experience headaches, drowsiness or increased ADHD symptoms for a couple days after quitting, but that's it. Like giving up, say, 2 cups of coffee a day.
If one were to increase the dosage far beyond the theraputic range, however, the addiction potential gets downright nasty.
If one were to increase the dosage far beyond the theraputic range, however, the addiction potential gets downright nasty.
addprogrammer
03-26-2009, 09:28 PM
Bob I was under the impression that adderall is NOT addictive, and can be stopped at any time with out withdrawl, etc? Is this accurate?
I was also told Lexapro was not addictive, and that was BS, I had physical withdrawl from Lexapro and it lasted MONTHS -- the brain zaps people don't get informed about are very real, I know I went through it.
I told my doctor I did not want to take anything that could cause physical withdrawl!
Mistyeyze,
Physical addiction means our bodies exhibit disease like symptoms when the substance is abrutly discontinued. Lexapro is physically addictive. Adderall is not. Ask any doctor for Lexapro and you got it.
Why the Schedule II on Adderall? Adderall is prone to abuse because too much produces euphoria. Euphoria feels good. Some people, if not most people, can develope a craving for the pleasurable feeling. The craving is psychological addiction and can be exponentially more difficult to break than physical addiction. Some drugs such as morphine come with both types of addictions.
Adderall at therapeutic doses does not produce euphoria. If taken strictly as prescibed the risk of psychological addiction is very low. Some of us such as myself at one time abused methamphetamine because we have ADHD. Can we take Adderall and resist the urge to take more? Yes. I do it. How? I do what I posted. I am brutally honest with my pdoc. He's good. He trusts me. He believes me. He remedies me. My ADHD is nicely managed and I'm NOT addicted to anything except chocolate ice cream.
Bob
I was also told Lexapro was not addictive, and that was BS, I had physical withdrawl from Lexapro and it lasted MONTHS -- the brain zaps people don't get informed about are very real, I know I went through it.
I told my doctor I did not want to take anything that could cause physical withdrawl!
Mistyeyze,
Physical addiction means our bodies exhibit disease like symptoms when the substance is abrutly discontinued. Lexapro is physically addictive. Adderall is not. Ask any doctor for Lexapro and you got it.
Why the Schedule II on Adderall? Adderall is prone to abuse because too much produces euphoria. Euphoria feels good. Some people, if not most people, can develope a craving for the pleasurable feeling. The craving is psychological addiction and can be exponentially more difficult to break than physical addiction. Some drugs such as morphine come with both types of addictions.
Adderall at therapeutic doses does not produce euphoria. If taken strictly as prescibed the risk of psychological addiction is very low. Some of us such as myself at one time abused methamphetamine because we have ADHD. Can we take Adderall and resist the urge to take more? Yes. I do it. How? I do what I posted. I am brutally honest with my pdoc. He's good. He trusts me. He believes me. He remedies me. My ADHD is nicely managed and I'm NOT addicted to anything except chocolate ice cream.
Bob
Mistyeyze
03-27-2009, 09:12 AM
Thanks Jane and Bob.
My adderall is 10 mg twice a day and has worked wonders on clearing the fog. For me, my ADD feels like sitting in foggy traffic with horns blowing everywhere and I don't know what road to take to get out of it so I stay in the slow lane and eventually find an exit only to end up in more traffic shortly down the road. Sorry if that doesn't make sense, LOL, it does to me.
Anyhow, when I went on vacation for a week I only took it two or three times on days we weren't drinking. I didn't want to mix the two and I told my doctor that ahead of time. She said taking a holiday from it is fine, and it was... I didn't have any withdrawal that week.
I guess my concern was does long term use cause problems including physical addiction, because I prefer to stay clear headed for life.
Bob I am glad you have found a good doc. Those are hard to come by, imo. Mine is pretty good too, thank God. Years ago I went to a doctor who imo was more messed up than me and a flat out moron and because of that I didn't go to another shrink for a very long time.
In May I go back to my doc and I was fearing I might have to do Lexapro again, which I do NOT want to do, but I think the depression might be lifting so I'm feeling a bit relieved.
Have a great day all.
My adderall is 10 mg twice a day and has worked wonders on clearing the fog. For me, my ADD feels like sitting in foggy traffic with horns blowing everywhere and I don't know what road to take to get out of it so I stay in the slow lane and eventually find an exit only to end up in more traffic shortly down the road. Sorry if that doesn't make sense, LOL, it does to me.
Anyhow, when I went on vacation for a week I only took it two or three times on days we weren't drinking. I didn't want to mix the two and I told my doctor that ahead of time. She said taking a holiday from it is fine, and it was... I didn't have any withdrawal that week.
I guess my concern was does long term use cause problems including physical addiction, because I prefer to stay clear headed for life.
Bob I am glad you have found a good doc. Those are hard to come by, imo. Mine is pretty good too, thank God. Years ago I went to a doctor who imo was more messed up than me and a flat out moron and because of that I didn't go to another shrink for a very long time.
In May I go back to my doc and I was fearing I might have to do Lexapro again, which I do NOT want to do, but I think the depression might be lifting so I'm feeling a bit relieved.
Have a great day all.
addprogrammer
03-27-2009, 03:13 PM
Thanks Jane and Bob.
My adderall is 10 mg twice a day and has worked wonders on clearing the fog. For me, my ADD feels like sitting in foggy traffic with horns blowing everywhere and I don't know what road to take to get out of it so I stay in the slow lane and eventually find an exit only to end up in more traffic shortly down the road. Sorry if that doesn't make sense, LOL, it does to me.
I guess my concern was does long term use cause problems including physical addiction, because I prefer to stay clear headed for life.
To the best of my knowledge, physical addiction isn't possible. Very high levels of amphetamines do deplete the body of energy and severely damage muscles and nerve endings. I think withdrawal symptoms are more symptomatic of muscle and nerve damage than addiction. I think there is difference. Whether true isn't that all important. No cessation symptoms occur except after very high levels for a prolonged period of time. Psychological addition is the greater issue and can happen at lower doses than street level meth abuse. I can't see how a craving can be formed for anything that doesn't make me feel good. As long as we are brutally honest with out pdoc and strictly follow instructions we don't have to worry about addiction of either type.
Example of being honest. Current dose is enabling focus but not producing a nice buzz. Go to doc and say, I can't focus. I need more. Doc prescribes more. You are on the short path to hell.
Conversely: Doc, I can focus but miss the buzz. Just may be the buzz is better than untreated depression. Doc prescribes a god-awful SSRI like he did to me. I don't miss the buzz no more. And when doc says you may be able to do without the Celexa, I am cutting back slowly, not cold turkey like last time. Cold withdrawal is brutal. But depression is worse. And addiction is worser still.
Bob I am glad you have found a good doc. Those are hard to come by, imo. Mine is pretty good too, thank God. Years ago I went to a doctor who imo was more messed up than me and a flat out moron and because of that I didn't go to another shrink for a very long time.
My take: 3 bozos for every psychiatrist. My fix: Keep kissing bozos until one turns into a psychiatrist. You had only kiss one troll. I kissed two. I think we both have done better than average.
Bob
My adderall is 10 mg twice a day and has worked wonders on clearing the fog. For me, my ADD feels like sitting in foggy traffic with horns blowing everywhere and I don't know what road to take to get out of it so I stay in the slow lane and eventually find an exit only to end up in more traffic shortly down the road. Sorry if that doesn't make sense, LOL, it does to me.
I guess my concern was does long term use cause problems including physical addiction, because I prefer to stay clear headed for life.
To the best of my knowledge, physical addiction isn't possible. Very high levels of amphetamines do deplete the body of energy and severely damage muscles and nerve endings. I think withdrawal symptoms are more symptomatic of muscle and nerve damage than addiction. I think there is difference. Whether true isn't that all important. No cessation symptoms occur except after very high levels for a prolonged period of time. Psychological addition is the greater issue and can happen at lower doses than street level meth abuse. I can't see how a craving can be formed for anything that doesn't make me feel good. As long as we are brutally honest with out pdoc and strictly follow instructions we don't have to worry about addiction of either type.
Example of being honest. Current dose is enabling focus but not producing a nice buzz. Go to doc and say, I can't focus. I need more. Doc prescribes more. You are on the short path to hell.
Conversely: Doc, I can focus but miss the buzz. Just may be the buzz is better than untreated depression. Doc prescribes a god-awful SSRI like he did to me. I don't miss the buzz no more. And when doc says you may be able to do without the Celexa, I am cutting back slowly, not cold turkey like last time. Cold withdrawal is brutal. But depression is worse. And addiction is worser still.
Bob I am glad you have found a good doc. Those are hard to come by, imo. Mine is pretty good too, thank God. Years ago I went to a doctor who imo was more messed up than me and a flat out moron and because of that I didn't go to another shrink for a very long time.
My take: 3 bozos for every psychiatrist. My fix: Keep kissing bozos until one turns into a psychiatrist. You had only kiss one troll. I kissed two. I think we both have done better than average.
Bob
addprogrammer
03-27-2009, 09:32 PM
ADHD theraputic dosages should not produce significant withdrawl symptoms. You might experience headaches, drowsiness or increased ADHD symptoms for a couple days after quitting, but that's it. Like giving up, say, 2 cups of coffee a day.
If one were to increase the dosage far beyond the theraputic range, however, the addiction potential gets downright nasty.
Jane,
We criss-crossed posts. Didn't see this one until now. Yes, as always, you are correct. Those low level nuisance type discomforts do indeed acccompany Adderall cessation.
When I cold-turkeyed Lexapro a few years back I was taken back on just how nasty the withdrawals are. Lex takes two days to clear sufficiently before withdrawal symptoms begin. At first I didn't make the connection and it scared daylights out of me. Once I understand I reasoned no one has died from Lex withdrawals so might as well ride out the storm. NEVER AGAIN. It is that bad.
Back in the day after a meth binge I went sleep for a few days after which I was back on line. I didn't know anyone who experienced heroine-like withdrawals - vomiting, cramps, sweating, etc. from amphetamines. Opiate overdose usually ends the addiction quickly and painlessly whereas I never knew anyone who died from an amphetamine OD. It does happen but rarely. Amphetamines kill like cancer by slowly and painfully destroying the nervous system, internal organs, skin and whatever else makes us tick. In my book speed addiction is the worse thing that can happen to a person.
For all of the foregoing reasons I don't usually make an issue over physical vs psychological addition. I know where Mistyeyze is coming from. She doesn't want another Lex type withdrawal problem on her hands. In that sense Adderall is not addictive.
Perhaps more of us should understand the difference. I guess, though, the main thing is to understand the addiction risk Adderall carries and make damn sure we don't fall victim.
Bob
If one were to increase the dosage far beyond the theraputic range, however, the addiction potential gets downright nasty.
Jane,
We criss-crossed posts. Didn't see this one until now. Yes, as always, you are correct. Those low level nuisance type discomforts do indeed acccompany Adderall cessation.
When I cold-turkeyed Lexapro a few years back I was taken back on just how nasty the withdrawals are. Lex takes two days to clear sufficiently before withdrawal symptoms begin. At first I didn't make the connection and it scared daylights out of me. Once I understand I reasoned no one has died from Lex withdrawals so might as well ride out the storm. NEVER AGAIN. It is that bad.
Back in the day after a meth binge I went sleep for a few days after which I was back on line. I didn't know anyone who experienced heroine-like withdrawals - vomiting, cramps, sweating, etc. from amphetamines. Opiate overdose usually ends the addiction quickly and painlessly whereas I never knew anyone who died from an amphetamine OD. It does happen but rarely. Amphetamines kill like cancer by slowly and painfully destroying the nervous system, internal organs, skin and whatever else makes us tick. In my book speed addiction is the worse thing that can happen to a person.
For all of the foregoing reasons I don't usually make an issue over physical vs psychological addition. I know where Mistyeyze is coming from. She doesn't want another Lex type withdrawal problem on her hands. In that sense Adderall is not addictive.
Perhaps more of us should understand the difference. I guess, though, the main thing is to understand the addiction risk Adderall carries and make damn sure we don't fall victim.
Bob
janewhite1
03-27-2009, 10:50 PM
My understanding is that it's a sort of artificially induced Parkinson's disease, in the late stages. The dopamine producing cells in the brain die off.
Again, this will only happen if you take very high doses, either to do something stupid like go a week without sleep, or deliberately to produce euphoria. It will not happen from proper medical use.
Again, this will only happen if you take very high doses, either to do something stupid like go a week without sleep, or deliberately to produce euphoria. It will not happen from proper medical use.
addprogrammer
03-28-2009, 09:46 AM
My understanding is that it's a sort of artificially induced Parkinson's disease, in the late stages. The dopamine producing cells in the brain die off.
Yes, if stroke, heart, liver and kidney failure doesn't end the addiction first. More often the abuser survives organ failure and spends rest of "life" with Parkinson's, heart, liver and kidney problems. Nasty stuff amphetamines are if abused. Don't do it. My youth and relatively short addiction cycle saved me. But I didn't get off unscathed. I continue to suffer the consequences 37 years later. Damn it anyway, no reset button on life. Don't do it.
Yes, if stroke, heart, liver and kidney failure doesn't end the addiction first. More often the abuser survives organ failure and spends rest of "life" with Parkinson's, heart, liver and kidney problems. Nasty stuff amphetamines are if abused. Don't do it. My youth and relatively short addiction cycle saved me. But I didn't get off unscathed. I continue to suffer the consequences 37 years later. Damn it anyway, no reset button on life. Don't do it.