klight317
05-06-2009, 12:58 AM
My name is Kevin, I live in NY and I was diagnosed with depression at age 17 and had been put on paxil, prozac, celexa, zoloft and last I was put on effexor. All were successful for months maybe a year at a time before I needed to make adjustments or changes. Then along came the nightmare 5 years later of my medications not working for me any longer. I developed panic attacks and severe anxiety to accompany my then severe depression. I ended up losing a great job and relationship over this illness. At age 24 I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder with manic depression where a mood stabilizer called Depakote was given to me to accompany my anti-depressant Wellbutrin. Anti-depressants would not work for me until I was taking this mood stabilizer with it. It worked for me for 3 years, until I reached a point where I no longer responded to this treatment. I was given Lamictal, a drug that was also a mood stabilizer because obviously the Depakote stopped working for me. That worked for 6 months then stopped. My suicidal thoughts were crowding my mind and I started once again feeling myself hitting rock bottom. My Dr. at the time then started giving me more options of medication…..she tried giving me other mood stabilizers and trying to decrease and increase my Wellbutrin to see if I could find any relief. Nothing was working. She put me back on my Depakote and kept me on Wellbutrin to again try and find something to work for me. I was feeling as if I was on my last leg until she called me in one day, and asked me if I would be interested in trying an alternative treatment that she recommends to patients who stop or don’t respond well to chemical treatment, and has a high success rate, and could possibly give me the chance to get off all my medications and stay off them forever. I was absolutely interested and was going to take her up on the offer. She referred me to a Dr. Larsen near me that lives in New Paltz, NY. He is an author and a professor as well. That specializes in a biofeedback treatment in which he issues a simple “painless” brainwave treatment through a computer. It’s called LENS “Low Energy Neurofeedback System”. He first does a brain scan of the activity in your brain by just putting sensors on various spots of your head. The computer takes a reading and shows the activity of your brainwaves showing where you have abnormal areas. Using magnetic and electrical stimulation (that you don’t even feel). It is also used to help children suffering with autism, ADD, ADHD and seizures and believe it or not cures 95% of them completely. To make a long story short, he had told me I would notice a difference between 1 and 10 sessions. He seemed confident he could help me, And that the results are permanent. This seemed too good to be true. I went every Wednesday to this treatment at 5:00. You sit down in a chair while he runs a 15 minute session, without feeling anything at all by putting 3 to 4 sensors on your head at different areas. I left the session and after 4 sessions I’ve noticed that my depression and anxiety was decreasing a huge amount over the next couple weeks, while taking my original dose of depakote 1000mg and 300mg of wellbutrin, are started feeling so good after a while I asked if we could try decreasing my dosages. He thought because I was showing great improvement that he thought it be a good idea to give it a try. Before I started this treatment if I so much as missed one of my pills one day the next day I felt horrible with anxiety and bedridden from lack of motivation and joy. My psychiatrist agreed because she had referred many patients to Dr. Larsen. It was only 7 sessions later we dropped to 500 mg of depakote. And I was fine, soon then to 250mg that I am currently on. I still feel incredible. The best I have ever felt in my life. It’s been 15 sessions later now, I go now every other Wednesday, and Dr. Larsen says to me he doesn’t think ill need the treatment much longer. Just until I’m off my medication completely we’ll continue. This method is a miracle in my eyes that needs to be practiced by more Doctors. But I understand drug companies would lose mad money if everyone was feeling good enough to get off there medications so its obvious the drug companies would like to keep it quiet. So many suffering people out there struggling with depression and on medication that’s failing them may have another option here. I strongly recommend it, if you wish to get rid of your depression, seizures, anxiety, panic attacks, and schizophrenia or bipolar COMPLETELY and possibly get off most or ALL of your medication. Its worth a try isn’t it? you cant put a price on your health. Go get your life back. * removed * Good luck.
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Llama
05-06-2009, 01:04 AM
I'm not trying to sound rude, but it sounds too good to be true and I'm tired of being let down by things that are "supposed" to work really well and take care of my symptoms.
BipolarPrincess
05-06-2009, 01:05 AM
hmm..very interesting. i haven't responded to any medication so far. im starting an outpatient program, and different meds and so forth. i *think* i have borderline personality disorder, although I dont have ALL the 'symptoms'... i was misdiagnosed as bipolar. however, i was never on a good mood stabilizer. i'm scared i won't get better. i have terrible anxiety/ocd kind of/major depression, and my moods go up and down but not in a bipolar way..ughh. can't take this im so nervous i wont get better. i have NO motivation, NO friends, and my family, well I feel i don't fit in with them. blahhhh i might have to look into this..
dreams in neon
05-06-2009, 03:21 AM
I'm not trying to sound rude, but it sounds too good to be true and I'm tired of being let down by things that are "supposed" to work really well and take care of my symptoms.
I couldn't agree with you more Llama. Research has proven time and time again that the best treatment protocol for bipolar are meds and therapy.
If someone does not benefit from meds, ECT may be their next best option.
I couldn't agree with you more Llama. Research has proven time and time again that the best treatment protocol for bipolar are meds and therapy.
If someone does not benefit from meds, ECT may be their next best option.
dreams in neon
05-06-2009, 03:23 AM
I also wanted to add that if neurofeedback actually prevented bipolar, everyone would be flocking to have this procedure.
dreams in neon
05-06-2009, 03:27 AM
I just did an Internet search for "neurofeedback + bipolar" and found that in cases where this procedure is used, the patient receiving it still continues taking meds, so apparently research has not proven that it can eliminate bipolar.
light the world
05-06-2009, 02:04 PM
I'm sorry but I still don't get the full picture of this neurofeedback. I don't deny that its working but I don't quite understand what about it is actually helping with the bipolar. Is this a new technology? I've never heard of this? It sounds like it can help with anxiety as well. How does it work?
dreams in neon
05-06-2009, 02:09 PM
What I don't understand is how neurofeedback can "cure" bipolar since bipolar is biological in nature as well as a chemical imbalance in the brain. How neurofeedback solves that, I'm very curious to know. I'm going to research this on the Internet today and see if I can come up with some answers.
klight317
05-06-2009, 05:16 PM
I dont like to have strong opinions and put doctors down, but neurofeedback has been around a while yet it is not well known. For reasons why in the 1980's a chiropractor wasnt excepted as a legit treatment til now. It just makes sense to me that medication isnt the answer all the time. I beleive if people were to be taken off medication drug companies due to alternative treating would be losing lots of money. This is my opinion. Health insurances do cover most biofeedback. Not many drs know it exists because not many drs use the treatment they are accustomed to chemical meds. I believe however you will see this treatment more well know nin the future. I can only say i thank god that i found it, And tried it, because i have had no symptoms since feburary, its expected to be perminent. but even if it isnt, i can alwasy try meds again. i can say tho its been worth having my life back for the time that i have. i am gonna enjoy it. All i want is to help people and show there are other options. The brain just sometimes needs to be rebooted like a computer. I hope people atleast look it up on the internet. its an interesting technique.
klight317
05-06-2009, 05:23 PM
yes i agree, i will say that saying its a "cure" isnt a good word to use, thats my mistake, but i can say i feel no symptoms, and others ive met who had bipolar and siezures have no more either. i agree that people would flock to it if it was so well known, but if someone told u that health foods would help certain things idt people would flock there either. It isnt a cheap treatment, and only 300 drs in the US use it. so no, it wouldnt be well known, but there is something too it. it isnt something im making up lol. it worked in my case. i do appreciate you looking into it, however i wish people would look at the posative rather than shoot it down with negatives, u can find negatives with anything. that is why its not so popular "right now" because if one person has a bad experience than of course i guess it dont work......but i know more people who hate there medications and have terrible side effects that if in fact this would work for them, it could change ther life. im not gonna say it will work for everyone. just it has for me, and that i have been doing very well
klight317
05-06-2009, 05:33 PM
you should atleast read about it before you dismiss it. I understand medication is the "protocol" for treatment but that may not always be the case for everyone. I can just say it worked for me, and i suffered with depression, bipolar, mania, and PTSD. it isnt a cheap treatment however like ive said health insurances do cover some of it. If you dont have ins. the treatment was costing me 125 out of pocket a week, for 10 weeks. it was worth it. Believe me.
dreams in neon
05-06-2009, 05:43 PM
The reason why people look at neurofeedback as a negative when it comes to treating bipolar is because there haven't been enough research studies to prove its' effectiveness.
Furthermore, a majority of pdocs know that meds are the first line of treatment for bipolar.
Meds may not work for everyone, but remember that some people quit taking meds just because they've tried one or two that don't work. What they fail to realize is that there are a myriad of meds and med combos that DO work.
If neurofeedback worked well for you, that's great, but keep in mind that some of us need meds and undergoing this kind of procedure could cause more harm than good -- especially if we are told we will never have bipolar symptoms again.
Neurofeedback is not a "cure" for bipolar which is what your post suggested given the fact that you said you no longer have symptoms. Anyone reading that statement would be inclined to believe that once they have neurofeedback, they will no longer be symptomatic which is unrealistic -- not to mention life threatening if they decide to stop taking their meds.
Furthermore, a majority of pdocs know that meds are the first line of treatment for bipolar.
Meds may not work for everyone, but remember that some people quit taking meds just because they've tried one or two that don't work. What they fail to realize is that there are a myriad of meds and med combos that DO work.
If neurofeedback worked well for you, that's great, but keep in mind that some of us need meds and undergoing this kind of procedure could cause more harm than good -- especially if we are told we will never have bipolar symptoms again.
Neurofeedback is not a "cure" for bipolar which is what your post suggested given the fact that you said you no longer have symptoms. Anyone reading that statement would be inclined to believe that once they have neurofeedback, they will no longer be symptomatic which is unrealistic -- not to mention life threatening if they decide to stop taking their meds.
dreams in neon
05-06-2009, 05:46 PM
By the way, I read quite a bit about neurofeedback last night and am not convinced by what I read.
klight317
05-06-2009, 05:51 PM
By the way, I read quite a bit about neurofeedback last night and am not convinced by what I read.
k im making it up then? dont mean to sound rude, but just because you dont think of it as legit dont mean it cant help others. ive met them and im proof it works. i guess im one of those dont knock it til youve tried it kinda people
k im making it up then? dont mean to sound rude, but just because you dont think of it as legit dont mean it cant help others. ive met them and im proof it works. i guess im one of those dont knock it til youve tried it kinda people
klight317
05-06-2009, 05:57 PM
The reason why people look at neurofeedback as a negative when it comes to treating bipolar is because there haven't been enough research studies to prove its' effectiveness.
Furthermore, a majority of pdocs know that meds are the first line of treatment for bipolar.
Meds may not work for everyone, but remember that some people quit taking meds just because they've tried one or two that don't work. What they fail to realize is that there are a myriad of meds and med combos that DO work.
If neurofeedback worked well for you, that's great, but keep in mind that some of us need meds and undergoing this kind of procedure could cause more harm than good -- especially if we are told we will never have bipolar symptoms again.Neurofeedback is not a "cure" for bipolar which is what your post suggested given the fact that you said you no longer have symptoms. Anyone reading that statement would be inclined to believe that once they have neurofeedback, they will no longer be symptomatic which is unrealistic -- not to mention life threatening if they decide to stop taking their meds.
and i didnt say to drop the medication. u do it gradually working with both your neurofeedback dr and your prescribing dr. I was on lamictal, depakote, neurontin, seraquel and many dif types of anti deprassants to accompany them and if all failed me like it was i wasnt gonna wait. i tried it. I was as skeptical as u are about the technique. im not anymore. Please dont discourage people just becasue you feel its not good enough when others could get the same results as i. being i am like evryone else just took a dif. avenue. I had PTSD as well from a head injury. so i have no doubts u will hear more about this someday
Furthermore, a majority of pdocs know that meds are the first line of treatment for bipolar.
Meds may not work for everyone, but remember that some people quit taking meds just because they've tried one or two that don't work. What they fail to realize is that there are a myriad of meds and med combos that DO work.
If neurofeedback worked well for you, that's great, but keep in mind that some of us need meds and undergoing this kind of procedure could cause more harm than good -- especially if we are told we will never have bipolar symptoms again.Neurofeedback is not a "cure" for bipolar which is what your post suggested given the fact that you said you no longer have symptoms. Anyone reading that statement would be inclined to believe that once they have neurofeedback, they will no longer be symptomatic which is unrealistic -- not to mention life threatening if they decide to stop taking their meds.
and i didnt say to drop the medication. u do it gradually working with both your neurofeedback dr and your prescribing dr. I was on lamictal, depakote, neurontin, seraquel and many dif types of anti deprassants to accompany them and if all failed me like it was i wasnt gonna wait. i tried it. I was as skeptical as u are about the technique. im not anymore. Please dont discourage people just becasue you feel its not good enough when others could get the same results as i. being i am like evryone else just took a dif. avenue. I had PTSD as well from a head injury. so i have no doubts u will hear more about this someday
dreams in neon
05-06-2009, 06:03 PM
k im making it up then? dont mean to sound rude, but just because you dont think of it as legit dont mean it cant help others. ive met them and im proof it works. i guess im one of those dont knock it til youve tried it kinda people
And I'm one of those people who look at things critically instead of believing everything I read just because someone says they are true. Just because one person says neurofeedback worked for them doesn't mean it works for everyone. That's common sense and a realistic way of looking at this.
Furthermore, some people have "severe" cases of bipolar who NEED to be treated with meds. I'm one of them. I have auditory hallucinations, delusions, 7 different types of paranoia and rapid cycling. I can tell you right now that neurofeedback wouldn't help me because I know that without my meds, I'd hear voices 24/7, have delusions, feel extremely paranoid and rapid cycle 24 hours/day if not minute by minute.
I mention that because anyone reading this thread could be in the same position and have similar symptoms as I do. What if they were to read your post, have neurofeedback performed, mistakingly think that it will make their bipolar disappear only to have their symptoms return and become worse than they were before?
Even if you don't condone someone stopping their meds, chances are likely that they will because they want to place all of their trust in a procedure that has not been proven to treat bipolar.
Besides, if they are already taking meds, why consider neurofeedback since they will need to continue their meds following this procedure anyway?
It just seems like an unecessary and added expense.
Like I said, if it works for you, great.
However, I would hate for anyone reading this thread to be misled into thinking that neurofeedback will change them from being bipolar one day to being "normal" the next. Bipolar doesn't work that way. It's a lifelong disorder that requires meds in order to keep it under control.
And I'm one of those people who look at things critically instead of believing everything I read just because someone says they are true. Just because one person says neurofeedback worked for them doesn't mean it works for everyone. That's common sense and a realistic way of looking at this.
Furthermore, some people have "severe" cases of bipolar who NEED to be treated with meds. I'm one of them. I have auditory hallucinations, delusions, 7 different types of paranoia and rapid cycling. I can tell you right now that neurofeedback wouldn't help me because I know that without my meds, I'd hear voices 24/7, have delusions, feel extremely paranoid and rapid cycle 24 hours/day if not minute by minute.
I mention that because anyone reading this thread could be in the same position and have similar symptoms as I do. What if they were to read your post, have neurofeedback performed, mistakingly think that it will make their bipolar disappear only to have their symptoms return and become worse than they were before?
Even if you don't condone someone stopping their meds, chances are likely that they will because they want to place all of their trust in a procedure that has not been proven to treat bipolar.
Besides, if they are already taking meds, why consider neurofeedback since they will need to continue their meds following this procedure anyway?
It just seems like an unecessary and added expense.
Like I said, if it works for you, great.
However, I would hate for anyone reading this thread to be misled into thinking that neurofeedback will change them from being bipolar one day to being "normal" the next. Bipolar doesn't work that way. It's a lifelong disorder that requires meds in order to keep it under control.
klight317
05-06-2009, 06:15 PM
And I'm one of those people who look at things critically instead of believing everything I read just because someone says they are true. Just because one person says neurofeedback worked for them doesn't mean it works for everyone. That's common sense and a realistic way of looking at this.
Furthermore, some people have "severe" cases of bipolar who NEED to be treated with meds. I'm one of them. I have auditory hallucinations, delusions, 7 different types of paranoia and rapid cycling. I can tell you right now that neurofeedback wouldn't help me because I know that without my meds, I'd hear voices 24/7, have delusions, feel extremely paranoid and rapid cycle 24 hours/day if not minute by minute.
I mention that because anyone reading this thread could be in the same position and have similar symptoms as I do. What if they were to read your post, have neurofeedback performed, mistakingly think that it will make their bipolar disappear only to have their symptoms return and become worse than they were before?
Even if you don't condone someone stopping their meds, chances are likely that they will because they want to place all of their trust in a procedure that has not been proven to treat bipolar.
Besides, if they are already taking meds, why consider neurofeedback since they will need to continue their meds following this procedure anyway?
It just seems like an unecessary and added expense.
Like I said, if it works for you, great.
However, I would hate for anyone reading this thread to be misled into thinking that neurofeedback will change them from being bipolar one day to being "normal" the next. Bipolar doesn't work that way. It's a lifelong disorder that requires meds in order to keep it under control.
Trust me, i see what you are saying. I understand. I just want you to know and everyone reading this that its an option. Im not saying go do it, it will fix u forever, im just telling my story, and take with it what you want, Im not a dr. and im sure there are drs who can give better decriptions than me on the treatment. im just a 26 year old whos been sick since i was 17, and for the first time in my life, i feel absoluetly great, and i have biofeedback to thank. Medication is the treatment of choice. i agree. And maybe this cant help you. But i know there are few out there who im sure actually are taking medication THAT they dont need to if they can get fixed in another fashion. The medication is known to cover up a problem, so u can manage. theres no medication in the world that actually gets to the root of the problem. Biofeedback gets to the root. The brain is meant to function a certain way, and it can heal.
Furthermore, some people have "severe" cases of bipolar who NEED to be treated with meds. I'm one of them. I have auditory hallucinations, delusions, 7 different types of paranoia and rapid cycling. I can tell you right now that neurofeedback wouldn't help me because I know that without my meds, I'd hear voices 24/7, have delusions, feel extremely paranoid and rapid cycle 24 hours/day if not minute by minute.
I mention that because anyone reading this thread could be in the same position and have similar symptoms as I do. What if they were to read your post, have neurofeedback performed, mistakingly think that it will make their bipolar disappear only to have their symptoms return and become worse than they were before?
Even if you don't condone someone stopping their meds, chances are likely that they will because they want to place all of their trust in a procedure that has not been proven to treat bipolar.
Besides, if they are already taking meds, why consider neurofeedback since they will need to continue their meds following this procedure anyway?
It just seems like an unecessary and added expense.
Like I said, if it works for you, great.
However, I would hate for anyone reading this thread to be misled into thinking that neurofeedback will change them from being bipolar one day to being "normal" the next. Bipolar doesn't work that way. It's a lifelong disorder that requires meds in order to keep it under control.
Trust me, i see what you are saying. I understand. I just want you to know and everyone reading this that its an option. Im not saying go do it, it will fix u forever, im just telling my story, and take with it what you want, Im not a dr. and im sure there are drs who can give better decriptions than me on the treatment. im just a 26 year old whos been sick since i was 17, and for the first time in my life, i feel absoluetly great, and i have biofeedback to thank. Medication is the treatment of choice. i agree. And maybe this cant help you. But i know there are few out there who im sure actually are taking medication THAT they dont need to if they can get fixed in another fashion. The medication is known to cover up a problem, so u can manage. theres no medication in the world that actually gets to the root of the problem. Biofeedback gets to the root. The brain is meant to function a certain way, and it can heal.
dreams in neon
05-06-2009, 06:23 PM
Trust me, i see what you are saying. I understand. I just want you to know and everyone reading this that its an option. Im not saying go do it, it will fix u forever, im just telling my story, and take with it what you want, Im not a dr. and im sure there are drs who can give better decriptions than me on the treatment. im just a 26 year old whos been sick since i was 17, and for the first time in my life, i feel absoluetly great, and i have biofeedback to thank. Medication is the treatment of choice. i agree. And maybe this cant help you. But i know there are few out there who im sure actually are taking medication THAT they dont need to if they can get fixed in another fashion. The medication is known to cover up a problem, so u can manage. theres no medication in the world that actually gets to the root of the problem. Biofeedback gets to the root. The brain is meant to function a certain way, and it can heal.
Again, you are implying that biofeedback can heal (i.e. cure) bipolar which it cannot do. There is no cure for bipolar.
Meds do not cover up "problems" when it comes to bipolar. Bipolar is a chemical imbalance and meds make up for that by increasing seratonin and dopamine levels.
By the way, my meds do not cover up anything. If truth be told, I'm offended by that statement because you make it sound as if I'm taking meds to cover up issues that I can't handle on my own.
I don't have any "issues." The reason why I take meds is to help control my mania, depression, auditory hallucinations, delusions, paranoia and rapid cycling.
All of those symptoms are not the result of any "issues" you think I might have. They are based on a disorder that is biological in nature and caused by a chemical imbalance. Nothing more, nothing less.
Again, you are implying that biofeedback can heal (i.e. cure) bipolar which it cannot do. There is no cure for bipolar.
Meds do not cover up "problems" when it comes to bipolar. Bipolar is a chemical imbalance and meds make up for that by increasing seratonin and dopamine levels.
By the way, my meds do not cover up anything. If truth be told, I'm offended by that statement because you make it sound as if I'm taking meds to cover up issues that I can't handle on my own.
I don't have any "issues." The reason why I take meds is to help control my mania, depression, auditory hallucinations, delusions, paranoia and rapid cycling.
All of those symptoms are not the result of any "issues" you think I might have. They are based on a disorder that is biological in nature and caused by a chemical imbalance. Nothing more, nothing less.
klight317
05-06-2009, 06:33 PM
Again, you are implying that biofeedback can heal (i.e. cure) bipolar which it cannot do. There is no cure for bipolar.
Meds do not cover up "problems" when it comes to bipolar. Bipolar is a chemical imbalance and meds make up for that by increasing seratonin and dopamine levels.
By the way, my meds do not cover up anything. If truth be told, I'm offended by that statement because you make it sound as if I'm taking meds to cover up issues that I can't handle on my own.
I don't have any "issues." The reason why I take meds is to help control my mania, depression, auditory hallucinations, delusions, paranoia and rapid cycling.
All of those symptoms are not the result of any "issues" you think I might have. They are based on a disorder that is biological in nature and caused by a chemical imbalance. Nothing more, nothing less.
im very sorry if i offended you, it was not my intention. I just believe that the "chemical imbalance" is something a brain isnt supposed to have. And a brain once again can do its job without the assistance of medication. Im not discussing this with you to down you, or hurt your feelings or make you sound like its because you have issues. I dealt with that when i lost my family and friends and my gf due to my terrible mood swings that i know i couldnt control. so if i offended you i appologize. i know the truth, and its not because you have "issues".
Meds do not cover up "problems" when it comes to bipolar. Bipolar is a chemical imbalance and meds make up for that by increasing seratonin and dopamine levels.
By the way, my meds do not cover up anything. If truth be told, I'm offended by that statement because you make it sound as if I'm taking meds to cover up issues that I can't handle on my own.
I don't have any "issues." The reason why I take meds is to help control my mania, depression, auditory hallucinations, delusions, paranoia and rapid cycling.
All of those symptoms are not the result of any "issues" you think I might have. They are based on a disorder that is biological in nature and caused by a chemical imbalance. Nothing more, nothing less.
im very sorry if i offended you, it was not my intention. I just believe that the "chemical imbalance" is something a brain isnt supposed to have. And a brain once again can do its job without the assistance of medication. Im not discussing this with you to down you, or hurt your feelings or make you sound like its because you have issues. I dealt with that when i lost my family and friends and my gf due to my terrible mood swings that i know i couldnt control. so if i offended you i appologize. i know the truth, and its not because you have "issues".
dreams in neon
05-06-2009, 07:12 PM
im very sorry if i offended you, it was not my intention. I just believe that the "chemical imbalance" is something a brain isnt supposed to have. And a brain once again can do its job without the assistance of medication. Im not discussing this with you to down you, or hurt your feelings or make you sound like its because you have issues. I dealt with that when i lost my family and friends and my gf due to my terrible mood swings that i know i couldnt control. so if i offended you i appologize. i know the truth, and its not because you have "issues".
Thank you for the clarification. Your apology is accepted.
Thank you for the clarification. Your apology is accepted.
windimeria2000
05-06-2009, 07:22 PM
I think I will ask my doctor about neurofeedback since he is a a neurologist as well he should be able to tell me something. I am optomistic always when it comes to new medical practices cause you can never tell. :angel:
klight317
05-06-2009, 07:46 PM
I think I will ask my doctor about neurofeedback since he is a a neurologist as well he should be able to tell me something. I am optomistic always when it comes to new medical practices cause you can never tell. :angel:
Im thrilled you will ask about it. But ill remind you that not all drs know much about it. From my understanding its just starting to be used to treat mental illness, it had such success with seizures, ADD, ADHD, and depression. Kepp in mind most medications that treat bipolar disorder are anticonvulsants. That may be a reason y biofeedback is showing good results in treating bipolar. I believe this method will soon be used more rather than doping up people with large amounts of medication. Its just another option, that may or may not work for you ar others, but it did for me. I was on suicide watch at the time in october when no medication was working, it all was just making me worse. The medication i responded to for years just started to not work. Thankfully my psychiatrist told me, when chemical treatment starts to fail her patients she likes to refer them to another dr she knows who specializes in this brain treatment. And she told me he had high success rate. I was thrilled, and at the same time, thought it was BS. or that my luck it wouldnt work for me. After doing a brainmap of my brainwave patterns he was able to tell me where in my brain i was having abnormalities and where to treat
Im thrilled you will ask about it. But ill remind you that not all drs know much about it. From my understanding its just starting to be used to treat mental illness, it had such success with seizures, ADD, ADHD, and depression. Kepp in mind most medications that treat bipolar disorder are anticonvulsants. That may be a reason y biofeedback is showing good results in treating bipolar. I believe this method will soon be used more rather than doping up people with large amounts of medication. Its just another option, that may or may not work for you ar others, but it did for me. I was on suicide watch at the time in october when no medication was working, it all was just making me worse. The medication i responded to for years just started to not work. Thankfully my psychiatrist told me, when chemical treatment starts to fail her patients she likes to refer them to another dr she knows who specializes in this brain treatment. And she told me he had high success rate. I was thrilled, and at the same time, thought it was BS. or that my luck it wouldnt work for me. After doing a brainmap of my brainwave patterns he was able to tell me where in my brain i was having abnormalities and where to treat
katlin09
05-06-2009, 11:20 PM
My pdoc is also a neurologist so I'll mention it to him and see what he thinks, he keeps up on all the newer meds/methods.
I'm not interested in it, and I don't think he would reccomed it for me, my case is to complicated, but i'd be interested to see what his take on it is.
kat
I'm not interested in it, and I don't think he would reccomed it for me, my case is to complicated, but i'd be interested to see what his take on it is.
kat
dreams in neon
05-07-2009, 01:48 AM
When I see my pdoc in June, I may also ask him what his opinion is. He has over 40 years worth of experience, so he has seen alot when it comes to treatment over the years.
klight317
05-08-2009, 05:23 PM
When I see my pdoc in June, I may also ask him what his opinion is. He has over 40 years worth of experience, so he has seen alot when it comes to treatment over the years.
good im curious to know what his opinion is.
good im curious to know what his opinion is.
dreams in neon
05-08-2009, 06:02 PM
good im curious to know what his opinion is.
I spoke to my pdoc yesterday because I'm currently in a mixed episode and asked him for his opinion on neurofeedback.
He said that while it may help relieve unipolar depression, it has not been proven to do the same for bipolar depression.
He also indicated that even if a person is treated with neurofeedback for bipolar depression, it does not mean they will not experience depressive episodes and/or manic episodes at a later time even if they continue taking their meds.
I spoke to my pdoc yesterday because I'm currently in a mixed episode and asked him for his opinion on neurofeedback.
He said that while it may help relieve unipolar depression, it has not been proven to do the same for bipolar depression.
He also indicated that even if a person is treated with neurofeedback for bipolar depression, it does not mean they will not experience depressive episodes and/or manic episodes at a later time even if they continue taking their meds.
NutshellNutter
05-09-2009, 05:27 AM
Hi,
Through my job I have access to all the research journals available in the scientific community. I was interested by the original post so, going through a bad spell of depression and numbness at this point in my BP, I decided to do a thorough search of the literature. Please let me stress that this ISn't just doing a www search but is a comprehensive seARch of all the professional literature there is - yes, every journal, every year within those journals history and every full article within every year.
I was thoroughly disappointed by the outcome.
There is hardly any proven eveidence that this works for BP - in fact I didn't find even one literature piece with relevance to BP!
The literature that is out there is mainly for epilepsy with a handful of articles for ADD, a couple for depression and 1 for migraine.
I found it worrying to know that people are putting so much faith and believability in something which quite frankly is not supported. I can also say, being in the research community myself, that if there was any justification for this to work then there would DEFINITELY be more research literature available.
Whilst I say this, I can still appreciate that a user may have found it beneficial for them. I will not take this away from them if it worked for THEM. However, we must consider why it worked...
- It could have worked because of the 'placebo effect'. This is when the patient recognises the treament as having an effect merely because they have been given a treatment and therefore BELIEVE that they must therefore feel en effect - ie. give someone a sugar pill for their headache and watch their headache disappear!
Also, the freqeuency used for neurofeedback is more than a whole order of magnitude less than that of a mobile phone (1x10E-18 compared to 1x10E-12). So, why doesn't everyone who uses a mobile phone not receive some positive neurofeedback response with relation to their BP????? The frequency is more for mobiles - therefore mobiles must first go past the frequency used for LENS.
All in all - I don't see that there are any questions to even be answered for this 'technique'...
The Nut.:jester:
Through my job I have access to all the research journals available in the scientific community. I was interested by the original post so, going through a bad spell of depression and numbness at this point in my BP, I decided to do a thorough search of the literature. Please let me stress that this ISn't just doing a www search but is a comprehensive seARch of all the professional literature there is - yes, every journal, every year within those journals history and every full article within every year.
I was thoroughly disappointed by the outcome.
There is hardly any proven eveidence that this works for BP - in fact I didn't find even one literature piece with relevance to BP!
The literature that is out there is mainly for epilepsy with a handful of articles for ADD, a couple for depression and 1 for migraine.
I found it worrying to know that people are putting so much faith and believability in something which quite frankly is not supported. I can also say, being in the research community myself, that if there was any justification for this to work then there would DEFINITELY be more research literature available.
Whilst I say this, I can still appreciate that a user may have found it beneficial for them. I will not take this away from them if it worked for THEM. However, we must consider why it worked...
- It could have worked because of the 'placebo effect'. This is when the patient recognises the treament as having an effect merely because they have been given a treatment and therefore BELIEVE that they must therefore feel en effect - ie. give someone a sugar pill for their headache and watch their headache disappear!
Also, the freqeuency used for neurofeedback is more than a whole order of magnitude less than that of a mobile phone (1x10E-18 compared to 1x10E-12). So, why doesn't everyone who uses a mobile phone not receive some positive neurofeedback response with relation to their BP????? The frequency is more for mobiles - therefore mobiles must first go past the frequency used for LENS.
All in all - I don't see that there are any questions to even be answered for this 'technique'...
The Nut.:jester:
dreams in neon
05-09-2009, 06:24 AM
Hi,
Through my job I have access to all the research journals available in the scientific community. I was interested by the original post so, going through a bad spell of depression and numbness at this point in my BP, I decided to do a thorough search of the literature. Please let me stress that this ISn't just doing a www search but is a comprehensive seARch of all the professional literature there is - yes, every journal, every year within those journals history and every full article within every year.
I was thoroughly disappointed by the outcome.
There is hardly any proven eveidence that this works for BP - in fact I didn't find even one literature piece with relevance to BP!
The literature that is out there is many for epilepsy with a handful of articles for ADD, a couple for depression and 1 for migraine.
I found it worrying to know that people are putting so much faith and believability in something which quite frankly is not supported. I can also say, being in the research community, that if there was any justification for this to work then there would DEFINITELY be more research literature available.
Whilst I say this, I can still appreciate that a user may have found it beneficial for them. I will not take this away from them if it worked for THEM. However, we must consider why it worked...
- It could have worked because of the 'placebo effect'. This is when the patient recognises the treament as having an effect merely because they have been given a treatment and therefore BELIEVE that they must therefore feel en effect - ie. give someone a sugar pill for their headache and watch their headache disappear!
Also, the freqeuency used for neurofeedback is more than a whole order of magnitude less than that of a mobile phone (1x10E-18 compared to 1x10E-12). So, why doesn't everyone who uses a mobile phone not receive some positive neurofeedback response with relation to their BP????? The frequency is more for mobiles - therefore mobiles must first go past the frequency used for LENS.
All in all - I don't see that there are any questions to even be answered for this 'technique'...
The Nut.:jester:
Nutter,
After reading your post, I decided to do a search using my university's library research journals. Like you, I also came up empty. I found similar information about ADD, migraines, depression and epilepsy.
When I did an Internet search, I found articles which suggested neurofeedback as a possible treatment for BP, but nothing concrete and no research to support the fact that it relieves or cures BP.
I was skeptical from the beginning and now I have evidence to prove that I had every right to be.
Through my job I have access to all the research journals available in the scientific community. I was interested by the original post so, going through a bad spell of depression and numbness at this point in my BP, I decided to do a thorough search of the literature. Please let me stress that this ISn't just doing a www search but is a comprehensive seARch of all the professional literature there is - yes, every journal, every year within those journals history and every full article within every year.
I was thoroughly disappointed by the outcome.
There is hardly any proven eveidence that this works for BP - in fact I didn't find even one literature piece with relevance to BP!
The literature that is out there is many for epilepsy with a handful of articles for ADD, a couple for depression and 1 for migraine.
I found it worrying to know that people are putting so much faith and believability in something which quite frankly is not supported. I can also say, being in the research community, that if there was any justification for this to work then there would DEFINITELY be more research literature available.
Whilst I say this, I can still appreciate that a user may have found it beneficial for them. I will not take this away from them if it worked for THEM. However, we must consider why it worked...
- It could have worked because of the 'placebo effect'. This is when the patient recognises the treament as having an effect merely because they have been given a treatment and therefore BELIEVE that they must therefore feel en effect - ie. give someone a sugar pill for their headache and watch their headache disappear!
Also, the freqeuency used for neurofeedback is more than a whole order of magnitude less than that of a mobile phone (1x10E-18 compared to 1x10E-12). So, why doesn't everyone who uses a mobile phone not receive some positive neurofeedback response with relation to their BP????? The frequency is more for mobiles - therefore mobiles must first go past the frequency used for LENS.
All in all - I don't see that there are any questions to even be answered for this 'technique'...
The Nut.:jester:
Nutter,
After reading your post, I decided to do a search using my university's library research journals. Like you, I also came up empty. I found similar information about ADD, migraines, depression and epilepsy.
When I did an Internet search, I found articles which suggested neurofeedback as a possible treatment for BP, but nothing concrete and no research to support the fact that it relieves or cures BP.
I was skeptical from the beginning and now I have evidence to prove that I had every right to be.
dreams in neon
05-09-2009, 06:37 AM
I forgot to mention that I also looked at "The Psychiatric Times" but they didn't have any information listed either.
katlin09
05-10-2009, 03:34 AM
Just my 2 cents worth, they also use neurofeedback/biofeedback in the Chronic Pain Clinic here at Duke, I've used it twice for my degeneratvie disease, but it did nothing. You might do a search on the Chronic Pain Clinic at Duke University Hospital, and see if that gets you anything.
I can't believe he's gotten y'all into this big of a discussion about it.
kat
I can't believe he's gotten y'all into this big of a discussion about it.
kat
dreams in neon
05-10-2009, 03:48 AM
I just did an Internet search again for "neurofeedback + bipolar disorder" and read a case study in which the person who received this kind of treatment did not notice any positive results. Again, I'm skeptical. If it worked for the original poster, great, but I wouldn't count on this being a treatment for bipolar that has any merit.
bluegreensky
05-10-2009, 09:47 AM
I also did some research on neurofeedback, and am not entirely convinced that it can be regarded as credible treatment for bp...it also stated on one site that it is a lengthy process and psychotherapy often works quicker...please note I'm not taking anything away from the positive experience of the original poster, I'm glad for anybody that gets relief from this illness no matter how!
Elf_Ears
05-12-2009, 09:17 AM
I found a place in VA that does LENS for ADD. I asked them for a referral in my area. I'd like to try it. As I'm bpII right now, I'd like to see if LENS can lessen it or at least keep me from getting worse. This spring was a real eye-opener to me that a mood stabilizer that worked for a year may not work as well as stresses add up at the end of that first year. INW, I have gotten worse. And I don't want to continue this way. I have a 7 yr old, and I need to be able to at least raise him to age 18 w/o too much bp upset. I think LENS is worth a try - if I can afford it.
Does anyone know about the cost, or whether insurance covers it?
I wish this had been available for my poor schizophrenic Grandma. Then again, she would never get help anyway, even just meds.
Does anyone know about the cost, or whether insurance covers it?
I wish this had been available for my poor schizophrenic Grandma. Then again, she would never get help anyway, even just meds.
dreams in neon
05-12-2009, 10:31 AM
I found a place in VA that does LENS for ADD. I asked them for a referral in my area. I'd like to try it. As I'm bpII right now, I'd like to see if LENS can lessen it or at least keep me from getting worse. This spring was a real eye-opener to me that a mood stabilizer that worked for a year may not work as well as stresses add up at the end of that first year. INW, I have gotten worse. And I don't want to continue this way. I have a 7 yr old, and I need to be able to at least raise him to age 18 w/o too much bp upset. I think LENS is worth a try - if I can afford it.
Does anyone know about the cost, or whether insurance covers it?
I wish this had been available for my poor schizophrenic Grandma. Then again, she would never get help anyway, even just meds.
Some insurance companies will pay for biofeedback, but only for certain medical conditions since the procedure is considered experimental.
Does anyone know about the cost, or whether insurance covers it?
I wish this had been available for my poor schizophrenic Grandma. Then again, she would never get help anyway, even just meds.
Some insurance companies will pay for biofeedback, but only for certain medical conditions since the procedure is considered experimental.
klight317
05-13-2009, 08:02 PM
Some insurance companies will pay for biofeedback, but only for certain medical conditions since the procedure is considered experimental.
Well, this is true, it took me 7 sessions once a week to notice relief, now im going once every other week and its my 16th session i believe, i feel great, symptoms of my anxiety depression that ive had since i was 17, my mood swings are non existant and i changed every day. Its been a life saver becasue i was about to give up and end my life. I thank god i found this procedure. Anyhow, my insurance is aetna, and they will cover 10 sessions a year for me, but i doubt ill need anymore than 20 becasue im not improving any longer which means ive peaked to where im gonna stay. (and im happy as can be so thats fine). if u speak with your treating biofeedback or
LENS dr like i did in the begining, they CAN work out a diagnosis that they can bill your ins. company. They are covering me under some mental diagnosis, unsure of which i appologize but your dr can work with you. In my case, IF i had no insurance, my treatments are $125 a session. And it does no harm to try the treatment, it can only help if its gonna help you. it wont make anything worse, Depression, in my doctors experience he has been able to have successful results in 99.9% of his patients. Thats good in my opinion. And i am included in that percentage i can again thank god. If you would like to read about my Doctor. His name is Stephen Larsen.
Well, this is true, it took me 7 sessions once a week to notice relief, now im going once every other week and its my 16th session i believe, i feel great, symptoms of my anxiety depression that ive had since i was 17, my mood swings are non existant and i changed every day. Its been a life saver becasue i was about to give up and end my life. I thank god i found this procedure. Anyhow, my insurance is aetna, and they will cover 10 sessions a year for me, but i doubt ill need anymore than 20 becasue im not improving any longer which means ive peaked to where im gonna stay. (and im happy as can be so thats fine). if u speak with your treating biofeedback or
LENS dr like i did in the begining, they CAN work out a diagnosis that they can bill your ins. company. They are covering me under some mental diagnosis, unsure of which i appologize but your dr can work with you. In my case, IF i had no insurance, my treatments are $125 a session. And it does no harm to try the treatment, it can only help if its gonna help you. it wont make anything worse, Depression, in my doctors experience he has been able to have successful results in 99.9% of his patients. Thats good in my opinion. And i am included in that percentage i can again thank god. If you would like to read about my Doctor. His name is Stephen Larsen.
klight317
05-13-2009, 08:25 PM
Hi,
Through my job I have access to all the research journals available in the scientific community. I was interested by the original post so, going through a bad spell of depression and numbness at this point in my BP, I decided to do a thorough search of the literature. Please let me stress that this ISn't just doing a www search but is a comprehensive seARch of all the professional literature there is - yes, every journal, every year within those journals history and every full article within every year.
I was thoroughly disappointed by the outcome.
There is hardly any proven eveidence that this works for BP - in fact I didn't find even one literature piece with relevance to BP!
The literature that is out there is mainly for epilepsy with a handful of articles for ADD, a couple for depression and 1 for migraine.
I found it worrying to know that people are putting so much faith and believability in something which quite frankly is not supported. I can also say, being in the research community myself, that if there was any justification for this to work then there would DEFINITELY be more research literature available.
Whilst I say this, I can still appreciate that a user may have found it beneficial for them. I will not take this away from them if it worked for THEM. However, we must consider why it worked...
- It could have worked because of the 'placebo effect'. This is when the patient recognises the treament as having an effect merely because they have been given a treatment and therefore BELIEVE that they must therefore feel en effect - ie. give someone a sugar pill for their headache and watch their headache disappear!
Also, the freqeuency used for neurofeedback is more than a whole order of magnitude less than that of a mobile phone (1x10E-18 compared to 1x10E-12). So, why doesn't everyone who uses a mobile phone not receive some positive neurofeedback response with relation to their BP????? The frequency is more for mobiles - therefore mobiles must first go past the frequency used for LENS.
All in all - I don't see that there are any questions to even be answered for this 'technique'...
The Nut.:jester:
'placebo effect'? No, I was hospitalized twice overnight for suicide attempts from sever depression. So, no sugar pill here. And I can also find you plenty of information from people that have had the same positive results that i did. Trust me when i say, I have been depressed since 17 years old and in 2004 took a turn for the worst. This treatment absolutely helped me, and YES it wont help everyone, Im more than positive if someone who knew what they were doing with the treatment you would have good results. Feel free to look up my doctor online. Dr stephen Larsen neurofeedback. I met a man there who had siezures as well for 25 years had some of his brain removed to stop the seizures and they continued....70 sessions of neurofeedback and he has been seizure free for 5 straight years. Im on my 16th session. and after the 6th or 7th session i noticed my anxiety completly went away, still hasnt returned. and my depression? since i was 17 i was depressed in either minor mild or severe states, and since november ive had 0 dpression. Ok it cant work for everyone but 99.9 percent of my dr's treated depression cases all had positive results. Thanks though for pretty much saying it was in my mind...haha ok. I do understand though that it is much easier to see all negatives before you pay attention to the positives. I would like to see someone give me some results that say that there medication...works for everybody....hm?
Through my job I have access to all the research journals available in the scientific community. I was interested by the original post so, going through a bad spell of depression and numbness at this point in my BP, I decided to do a thorough search of the literature. Please let me stress that this ISn't just doing a www search but is a comprehensive seARch of all the professional literature there is - yes, every journal, every year within those journals history and every full article within every year.
I was thoroughly disappointed by the outcome.
There is hardly any proven eveidence that this works for BP - in fact I didn't find even one literature piece with relevance to BP!
The literature that is out there is mainly for epilepsy with a handful of articles for ADD, a couple for depression and 1 for migraine.
I found it worrying to know that people are putting so much faith and believability in something which quite frankly is not supported. I can also say, being in the research community myself, that if there was any justification for this to work then there would DEFINITELY be more research literature available.
Whilst I say this, I can still appreciate that a user may have found it beneficial for them. I will not take this away from them if it worked for THEM. However, we must consider why it worked...
- It could have worked because of the 'placebo effect'. This is when the patient recognises the treament as having an effect merely because they have been given a treatment and therefore BELIEVE that they must therefore feel en effect - ie. give someone a sugar pill for their headache and watch their headache disappear!
Also, the freqeuency used for neurofeedback is more than a whole order of magnitude less than that of a mobile phone (1x10E-18 compared to 1x10E-12). So, why doesn't everyone who uses a mobile phone not receive some positive neurofeedback response with relation to their BP????? The frequency is more for mobiles - therefore mobiles must first go past the frequency used for LENS.
All in all - I don't see that there are any questions to even be answered for this 'technique'...
The Nut.:jester:
'placebo effect'? No, I was hospitalized twice overnight for suicide attempts from sever depression. So, no sugar pill here. And I can also find you plenty of information from people that have had the same positive results that i did. Trust me when i say, I have been depressed since 17 years old and in 2004 took a turn for the worst. This treatment absolutely helped me, and YES it wont help everyone, Im more than positive if someone who knew what they were doing with the treatment you would have good results. Feel free to look up my doctor online. Dr stephen Larsen neurofeedback. I met a man there who had siezures as well for 25 years had some of his brain removed to stop the seizures and they continued....70 sessions of neurofeedback and he has been seizure free for 5 straight years. Im on my 16th session. and after the 6th or 7th session i noticed my anxiety completly went away, still hasnt returned. and my depression? since i was 17 i was depressed in either minor mild or severe states, and since november ive had 0 dpression. Ok it cant work for everyone but 99.9 percent of my dr's treated depression cases all had positive results. Thanks though for pretty much saying it was in my mind...haha ok. I do understand though that it is much easier to see all negatives before you pay attention to the positives. I would like to see someone give me some results that say that there medication...works for everybody....hm?
klight317
05-13-2009, 08:31 PM
PS. not that this has any merit, but i thought id mention that there is a dr lawless (i think) that comes on to the dr phil show on tv, and has done neurofeedback with everyone he treats, and also gets great responses with this.
it 'teaches' your neuro-pathways to respond in the proper manner etc..WHEN DONE BY A PROFESSIONAL
it 'teaches' your neuro-pathways to respond in the proper manner etc..WHEN DONE BY A PROFESSIONAL
dreams in neon
05-13-2009, 10:45 PM
I would like to see someone give me some results that say that there medication...works for everybody....hm?
There is far more evidence to prove the fact that meds work effectively to treat bipolar compared to alternative treatments like biofeedback or natural remedies.
Aside from that, there are a wide variety of meds to choose from, so if one doesn't work, another can be tried.
I'm proof that meds can and do work. I've been on Depakote for the past 3 years and haven't had a manic/psychotic episode since 2006.
My Fluoxetine is also working like a charm. I've been taking this med since January 1st and haven't been severely depressed since December.
There is far more evidence to prove the fact that meds work effectively to treat bipolar compared to alternative treatments like biofeedback or natural remedies.
Aside from that, there are a wide variety of meds to choose from, so if one doesn't work, another can be tried.
I'm proof that meds can and do work. I've been on Depakote for the past 3 years and haven't had a manic/psychotic episode since 2006.
My Fluoxetine is also working like a charm. I've been taking this med since January 1st and haven't been severely depressed since December.
dreams in neon
05-13-2009, 10:48 PM
PS. not that this has any merit, but i thought id mention that there is a dr lawless (i think) that comes on to the dr phil show on tv, and has done neurofeedback with everyone he treats, and also gets great responses with this.
it 'teaches' your neuro-pathways to respond in the proper manner etc..WHEN DONE BY A PROFESSIONAL
I would be very careful about believing anything that is mentioned on the Dr. Phil Show.
In addition, any doctor who appears on Dr. Phil *will* talk about the successes people have had with a given treatment. They certainly aren't going to mention the drawbacks or risks.
it 'teaches' your neuro-pathways to respond in the proper manner etc..WHEN DONE BY A PROFESSIONAL
I would be very careful about believing anything that is mentioned on the Dr. Phil Show.
In addition, any doctor who appears on Dr. Phil *will* talk about the successes people have had with a given treatment. They certainly aren't going to mention the drawbacks or risks.
bluegreensky
05-14-2009, 06:20 AM
From what I can tell after doing some reading on neurofeedback, there have been positive reactions to the treatment with regards to bipolar sufferers, but in most case it only caused the medication to be lessened, not completely taken away...and seeing that we go through that anyway (lessening/adjusting meds at times), why bother with just another treatment to keep up with, incur medical expenses, spend time going to appointments..?..
dreams in neon
05-14-2009, 06:46 AM
From what I can tell after doing some reading on neurofeedback, there have been positive reactions to the treatment with regards to bipolar sufferers, but in most case it only caused the medication to be lessened, not completely taken away...and seeing that we go through that anyway (lessening/adjusting meds at times), why bother with just another treatment to keep up with, incur medical expenses, spend time going to appointments..?..
Good post bluegreensky.
I don't understand the logic of spending an average of $30 to $90/session on a treatment that is not guaranteed to work. If someone needs 16 treatments, that amounts to $480-$1440 not including the initial cost of an evaluation. That's quite a bit of money to spend on a procedure which does not have enough research behind it to prove that it relieves bipolar.
Good post bluegreensky.
I don't understand the logic of spending an average of $30 to $90/session on a treatment that is not guaranteed to work. If someone needs 16 treatments, that amounts to $480-$1440 not including the initial cost of an evaluation. That's quite a bit of money to spend on a procedure which does not have enough research behind it to prove that it relieves bipolar.
klight317
05-14-2009, 05:16 PM
From what I can tell after doing some reading on neurofeedback, there have been positive reactions to the treatment with regards to bipolar sufferers, but in most case it only caused the medication to be lessened, not completely taken away...and seeing that we go through that anyway (lessening/adjusting meds at times), why bother with just another treatment to keep up with, incur medical expenses, spend time going to appointments..?..
because i wont need to go anymore after june. my dr and i have decided that i no longer need treatment. And ive saved 675.75 on copays on medication i dont need. Worth it to me. And my goal is to go off all the meds completely. And I feel in my heart i can do so. I already stopped needing my xanax that was a critical must have.. 7 months ago.
because i wont need to go anymore after june. my dr and i have decided that i no longer need treatment. And ive saved 675.75 on copays on medication i dont need. Worth it to me. And my goal is to go off all the meds completely. And I feel in my heart i can do so. I already stopped needing my xanax that was a critical must have.. 7 months ago.
klight317
05-14-2009, 05:21 PM
Good post bluegreensky.
I don't understand the logic of spending an average of $30 to $90/session on a treatment that is not guaranteed to work. If someone needs 16 treatments, that amounts to $480-$1440 not including the initial cost of an evaluation. That's quite a bit of money to spend on a procedure which does not have enough research behind it to prove that it relieves bipolar.
the logic is that it works and im not dumping medication into my system and having side effects that i did not enjoy having for the past 9 years. The hand tremors went away, and the eye tick. and dry mouth is better now. So ive benefited. Nobody knows what this medication will have on you in long term. I beleive the body can heal itself, along with the brain. Plus on the same token as you and everyone that says its not proven that it will help. No its not, but all medications dont work for everyone either, this is a medication that worked for me.
I don't understand the logic of spending an average of $30 to $90/session on a treatment that is not guaranteed to work. If someone needs 16 treatments, that amounts to $480-$1440 not including the initial cost of an evaluation. That's quite a bit of money to spend on a procedure which does not have enough research behind it to prove that it relieves bipolar.
the logic is that it works and im not dumping medication into my system and having side effects that i did not enjoy having for the past 9 years. The hand tremors went away, and the eye tick. and dry mouth is better now. So ive benefited. Nobody knows what this medication will have on you in long term. I beleive the body can heal itself, along with the brain. Plus on the same token as you and everyone that says its not proven that it will help. No its not, but all medications dont work for everyone either, this is a medication that worked for me.
klight317
05-14-2009, 05:23 PM
I would be very careful about believing anything that is mentioned on the Dr. Phil Show.
In addition, any doctor who appears on Dr. Phil *will* talk about the successes people have had with a given treatment. They certainly aren't going to mention the drawbacks or risks.
well no it would make sense that people would like to hear the positives. Rtaher than all the negatives that you seem to be all you pay attention to. And theres no risks with any chemical treatment either i suppose?
In addition, any doctor who appears on Dr. Phil *will* talk about the successes people have had with a given treatment. They certainly aren't going to mention the drawbacks or risks.
well no it would make sense that people would like to hear the positives. Rtaher than all the negatives that you seem to be all you pay attention to. And theres no risks with any chemical treatment either i suppose?
klight317
05-14-2009, 05:29 PM
There is far more evidence to prove the fact that meds work effectively to treat bipolar compared to alternative treatments like biofeedback or natural remedies.
Aside from that, there are a wide variety of meds to choose from, so if one doesn't work, another can be tried.
I'm proof that meds can and do work. I've been on Depakote for the past 3 years and haven't had a manic/psychotic episode since 2006.
My Fluoxetine is also working like a charm. I've been taking this med since January 1st and haven't been severely depressed since December.
biofeedback is just starting to breakthrough into the medical world, so no you wont see to much about it just yet, but i promise you that it will be more known in years to come. Yes medications show far more results in both negative and positive aspects and there has been proof however medication is backed by multi billion dollar industry that can run these studies. If you put the amount of attention into biofeedback that they do with meds. they would be able to produce more results and maybe even prefect a few problems the treatment may have. The problem is nobody will take anything "natural" that may work seriously. Theres no money in it.
Aside from that, there are a wide variety of meds to choose from, so if one doesn't work, another can be tried.
I'm proof that meds can and do work. I've been on Depakote for the past 3 years and haven't had a manic/psychotic episode since 2006.
My Fluoxetine is also working like a charm. I've been taking this med since January 1st and haven't been severely depressed since December.
biofeedback is just starting to breakthrough into the medical world, so no you wont see to much about it just yet, but i promise you that it will be more known in years to come. Yes medications show far more results in both negative and positive aspects and there has been proof however medication is backed by multi billion dollar industry that can run these studies. If you put the amount of attention into biofeedback that they do with meds. they would be able to produce more results and maybe even prefect a few problems the treatment may have. The problem is nobody will take anything "natural" that may work seriously. Theres no money in it.
dreams in neon
05-14-2009, 05:48 PM
The problem is nobody will take anything "natural" that may work seriously. Theres no money in it.
There's a very good reason for that. Even if multiple studies were conducted to prove the efficacy of natural treatments, it still doesn't prove anything substantial since meds have always been designed to address the biological aspects of bipolar and other mental illnesses. Biofeedback will never "cure" bipolar or even reduce symptoms to the point where one does not need meds. Meds on the other hand, will relieve symptoms and in some cases, eliminate them for many, many years.
There's a very good reason for that. Even if multiple studies were conducted to prove the efficacy of natural treatments, it still doesn't prove anything substantial since meds have always been designed to address the biological aspects of bipolar and other mental illnesses. Biofeedback will never "cure" bipolar or even reduce symptoms to the point where one does not need meds. Meds on the other hand, will relieve symptoms and in some cases, eliminate them for many, many years.
BipolarPrincess
05-14-2009, 10:36 PM
the logic is that it works and im not dumping medication into my system and having side effects that i did not enjoy having for the past 9 years. The hand tremors went away, and the eye tick. and dry mouth is better now. So ive benefited. Nobody knows what this medication will have on you in long term. I beleive the body can heal itself, along with the brain. Plus on the same token as you and everyone that says its not proven that it will help. No its not, but all medications dont work for everyone either, this is a medication that worked for me.
Well hey, good for you. That's all I have to say. And true, I am scared about long term use of medication. I read a book saying anti-depressants cause permanent brain damage and such, my mom told me it was garbage and took it away from me because I was REALLY worried.
Well hey, good for you. That's all I have to say. And true, I am scared about long term use of medication. I read a book saying anti-depressants cause permanent brain damage and such, my mom told me it was garbage and took it away from me because I was REALLY worried.
dreams in neon
05-15-2009, 01:02 AM
Well hey, good for you. That's all I have to say. And true, I am scared about long term use of medication. I read a book saying anti-depressants cause permanent brain damage and such, my mom told me it was garbage and took it away from me because I was REALLY worried.
It is garbage. I've been taking anti-depressants since 1991 and have no problem whatsoever thinking logically and clearly.
Having said that, I'm not the least bit concerned about taking an anti-depressant.
Alot of books are written to scare people and the authors who write them apparently have no idea what they are talking about.
It is garbage. I've been taking anti-depressants since 1991 and have no problem whatsoever thinking logically and clearly.
Having said that, I'm not the least bit concerned about taking an anti-depressant.
Alot of books are written to scare people and the authors who write them apparently have no idea what they are talking about.
BipolarPrincess
05-15-2009, 02:01 AM
It is garbage. I've been taking anti-depressants since 1991 and have no problem whatsoever thinking logically and clearly.
Having said that, I'm not the least bit concerned about taking an anti-depressant.
Alot of books are written to scare people and the authors who write them apparently have no idea what they are talking about.
Yeah I agree. I'm glad she took it away, it was quite frightening. The author is supposedly an MD and Pdoc. He encourages his patients to get off meds and take supplements and do therapy. I'm glad he's not my doctor, lol.
Having said that, I'm not the least bit concerned about taking an anti-depressant.
Alot of books are written to scare people and the authors who write them apparently have no idea what they are talking about.
Yeah I agree. I'm glad she took it away, it was quite frightening. The author is supposedly an MD and Pdoc. He encourages his patients to get off meds and take supplements and do therapy. I'm glad he's not my doctor, lol.
dreams in neon
05-15-2009, 02:16 AM
Yeah I agree. I'm glad she took it away, it was quite frightening. The author is supposedly an MD and Pdoc. He encourages his patients to get off meds and take supplements and do therapy. I'm glad he's not my doctor, lol.
Just because someone has the letters "MD" after their name doesn't mean they know what they're talking about. :)
I'm also glad he isn't my doctor. I don't have alot of faith in natural remedies anyways since I've tried just about all of them over the past 18 years in order to deal with my voices. Not surprisingly, none of them worked.
Just because someone has the letters "MD" after their name doesn't mean they know what they're talking about. :)
I'm also glad he isn't my doctor. I don't have alot of faith in natural remedies anyways since I've tried just about all of them over the past 18 years in order to deal with my voices. Not surprisingly, none of them worked.
bluegreensky
05-15-2009, 03:55 AM
biofeedback is just starting to breakthrough into the medical world, so no you wont see to much about it just yet, but i promise you that it will be more known in years to come. Yes medications show far more results in both negative and positive aspects and there has been proof however medication is backed by multi billion dollar industry that can run these studies. If you put the amount of attention into biofeedback that they do with meds. they would be able to produce more results and maybe even prefect a few problems the treatment may have. The problem is nobody will take anything "natural" that may work seriously. Theres no money in it.
Even though I'm not convinced that you can get rid of bipolar completely by using neurofeedback, I will welcome any treatment that can relieve symptoms in some way or another, but I will need much more proof of positive results than currently is available, so let's hope that there are many more people out there like you who are willing to try it out and therefore enable studies to be conducted on a broader scale...
Even though I'm not convinced that you can get rid of bipolar completely by using neurofeedback, I will welcome any treatment that can relieve symptoms in some way or another, but I will need much more proof of positive results than currently is available, so let's hope that there are many more people out there like you who are willing to try it out and therefore enable studies to be conducted on a broader scale...
klight317
05-17-2009, 12:59 PM
It is garbage. I've been taking anti-depressants since 1991 and have no problem whatsoever thinking logically and clearly.
Having said that, I'm not the least bit concerned about taking an anti-depressant.
Alot of books are written to scare people and the authors who write them apparently have no idea what they are talking about.
lol books arent written to scare people. Gimme a break. Its an opinion someone has about a certain topic, if someone wrote a book just about biofeedback and how it would make me go crazy and hurt me in the long run for example id throw it out... when the whole time it coulda been the thing that helped me, doesnt mean these dr's are are wrong at all, I know plentty of people who took antidepressants and felt worse from side effects rather than the initial depression. These books are just meant for the people who are open minded and dont believe EVERYTHING a dr will say is the right way to go, theres not only "one" way for treating everything, i dont care what any study says, and im very happy that there are diferent books on both sides so you can read and see the views of everyone. People need to be aware of the risks and dangers of everything. saying they dont is ignorant. Nothing proves meds are healthy for everyone. Again, a little open mindedness doesnt hurt.
Having said that, I'm not the least bit concerned about taking an anti-depressant.
Alot of books are written to scare people and the authors who write them apparently have no idea what they are talking about.
lol books arent written to scare people. Gimme a break. Its an opinion someone has about a certain topic, if someone wrote a book just about biofeedback and how it would make me go crazy and hurt me in the long run for example id throw it out... when the whole time it coulda been the thing that helped me, doesnt mean these dr's are are wrong at all, I know plentty of people who took antidepressants and felt worse from side effects rather than the initial depression. These books are just meant for the people who are open minded and dont believe EVERYTHING a dr will say is the right way to go, theres not only "one" way for treating everything, i dont care what any study says, and im very happy that there are diferent books on both sides so you can read and see the views of everyone. People need to be aware of the risks and dangers of everything. saying they dont is ignorant. Nothing proves meds are healthy for everyone. Again, a little open mindedness doesnt hurt.
dreams in neon
05-17-2009, 04:30 PM
Again, a little open mindedness doesnt hurt.
There's a difference between being open-minded and failing to gather all of the facts necessary to make an informed decision.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I've read about neurofeedback, but there isn't enough research to support how effective it is in treating bipolar so that meds are no longer necessary.
You may not care about research studies, but I do. I think they can tell us alot about how well a given treatment works.
I don't trust the personal experiences of others since people can say anything they want on the Internet and there is no way to validate their claims -- positive or negative.
Just because neurofeedback worked for you doesn't mean it works for the majority. It also doesn't mean that you won't experience symptoms again in the future.
Call me a cynic, but I don't believe everything I read.
There's a difference between being open-minded and failing to gather all of the facts necessary to make an informed decision.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I've read about neurofeedback, but there isn't enough research to support how effective it is in treating bipolar so that meds are no longer necessary.
You may not care about research studies, but I do. I think they can tell us alot about how well a given treatment works.
I don't trust the personal experiences of others since people can say anything they want on the Internet and there is no way to validate their claims -- positive or negative.
Just because neurofeedback worked for you doesn't mean it works for the majority. It also doesn't mean that you won't experience symptoms again in the future.
Call me a cynic, but I don't believe everything I read.