12Bravo
07-10-2009, 01:31 PM
Greetings all,
I just had a general physical performed and my creatinine was at 1.6. I am 5'9" and weigh about 230 lbs and am of about average build, not super "heavy" but not super muscular either. My blood pressure was a bit high 146/81. About a week before the blood test I had just started taking a multivitamin which has about 90 mg of Vitamin C according to the label %150 of your daily allowance (which I have read that this could cause slightly higher value in blood creatinine levels). Also about a day or two before I had taking two aspirn for a headache, I have also read that aspirin can skew results. Two weeks prior I started working out, it had been about a year since I had. The moring before the blood exam I did a pretty intense work out, well for me anyway. I might have been dehydrated since I usually don't drink much through out the day, I can usually eat an entire meal and not drink from my glass once, my family all thinks I am nuts becuase of this. I have had some slighlt pain in my lower back, now I am not sure if this is because of my softball league on Mondays or because of my time in the military (4 years of humping around and 80 lb ruck might have left a few kinks in my back). I also suffered a very mild fever one day, took a bit of a nap and felt better when I awoke. And every once and again I do get the feeling that I might be coming down with t a cold.....but again very very mild.
About three years ago the VA (no military realted health issues, just got free physicals there) doctor also told me that I should shave a few pounds and that my BP was a bit high, he didn't stress it at all, and unfortunately I did not think to ask him at the time.
I am just so stressed out about the possibility how having CKD. I had a few questions and hopefully someone can answer.
1. Can all the factors listed above (i.e. vitamin C, aspirin, excersise,dehydration) skew my blood creatinine out of the normal range?
2. Can say about 4 years of stage 1 hypertension ruin my kidneys?
3. Is the back pain and the one fever and the elevated creatinine level maybe a hint towards kydney infection instead of CKD?
I have another appointment with my doctor on August 3rd. I will ask him to repeat the blood test and to take a urine sample for the purpose of checking for protein. I have started to eat a little less protein as a pre-cautionary measure and have greatly reduced my salt intake, not only for any possible renal issues but also to get my BP under control. I haven't drank a drop of alcohol and honestly I don't plan on it.
Any and all replies would be greatly appreciated.
Best,
Bravo
I just had a general physical performed and my creatinine was at 1.6. I am 5'9" and weigh about 230 lbs and am of about average build, not super "heavy" but not super muscular either. My blood pressure was a bit high 146/81. About a week before the blood test I had just started taking a multivitamin which has about 90 mg of Vitamin C according to the label %150 of your daily allowance (which I have read that this could cause slightly higher value in blood creatinine levels). Also about a day or two before I had taking two aspirn for a headache, I have also read that aspirin can skew results. Two weeks prior I started working out, it had been about a year since I had. The moring before the blood exam I did a pretty intense work out, well for me anyway. I might have been dehydrated since I usually don't drink much through out the day, I can usually eat an entire meal and not drink from my glass once, my family all thinks I am nuts becuase of this. I have had some slighlt pain in my lower back, now I am not sure if this is because of my softball league on Mondays or because of my time in the military (4 years of humping around and 80 lb ruck might have left a few kinks in my back). I also suffered a very mild fever one day, took a bit of a nap and felt better when I awoke. And every once and again I do get the feeling that I might be coming down with t a cold.....but again very very mild.
About three years ago the VA (no military realted health issues, just got free physicals there) doctor also told me that I should shave a few pounds and that my BP was a bit high, he didn't stress it at all, and unfortunately I did not think to ask him at the time.
I am just so stressed out about the possibility how having CKD. I had a few questions and hopefully someone can answer.
1. Can all the factors listed above (i.e. vitamin C, aspirin, excersise,dehydration) skew my blood creatinine out of the normal range?
2. Can say about 4 years of stage 1 hypertension ruin my kidneys?
3. Is the back pain and the one fever and the elevated creatinine level maybe a hint towards kydney infection instead of CKD?
I have another appointment with my doctor on August 3rd. I will ask him to repeat the blood test and to take a urine sample for the purpose of checking for protein. I have started to eat a little less protein as a pre-cautionary measure and have greatly reduced my salt intake, not only for any possible renal issues but also to get my BP under control. I haven't drank a drop of alcohol and honestly I don't plan on it.
Any and all replies would be greatly appreciated.
Best,
Bravo
Sponsor
Coravh
07-10-2009, 03:24 PM
Greetings all,
1. Can all the factors listed above (i.e. vitamin C, aspirin, excersise,dehydration) skew my blood creatinine out of the normal range?
2. Can say about 4 years of stage 1 hypertension ruin my kidneys?
3. Is the back pain and the one fever and the elevated creatinine level maybe a hint towards kydney infection instead of CKD?
I have another appointment with my doctor on August 3rd. I will ask him to repeat the blood test and to take a urine sample for the purpose of checking for protein. I have started to eat a little less protein as a pre-cautionary measure and have greatly reduced my salt intake, not only for any possible renal issues but also to get my BP under control. I haven't drank a drop of alcohol and honestly I don't plan on it.
Any and all replies would be greatly appreciated.
Best,
Bravo
Hi Bravo.
1. While some of the factors you mention can affect your creatinine, it is my belief that if your kidneys were functioning at full capacity, those things would not push you quite so far out of range. Sorry, but you need to keep being followed up on this.
2. The hypertension could have caused the kidney damage. There is no set time frame for how long it will take to damage a kidney. It is a very individual thing.
3. The back pain and fever could also be due to something as simple (and painful) as kidney stones. This is again why it is so important for you to continue to be followed. Have you had any sort of scan of your kidneys?
Hope this helps a bit.
1. Can all the factors listed above (i.e. vitamin C, aspirin, excersise,dehydration) skew my blood creatinine out of the normal range?
2. Can say about 4 years of stage 1 hypertension ruin my kidneys?
3. Is the back pain and the one fever and the elevated creatinine level maybe a hint towards kydney infection instead of CKD?
I have another appointment with my doctor on August 3rd. I will ask him to repeat the blood test and to take a urine sample for the purpose of checking for protein. I have started to eat a little less protein as a pre-cautionary measure and have greatly reduced my salt intake, not only for any possible renal issues but also to get my BP under control. I haven't drank a drop of alcohol and honestly I don't plan on it.
Any and all replies would be greatly appreciated.
Best,
Bravo
Hi Bravo.
1. While some of the factors you mention can affect your creatinine, it is my belief that if your kidneys were functioning at full capacity, those things would not push you quite so far out of range. Sorry, but you need to keep being followed up on this.
2. The hypertension could have caused the kidney damage. There is no set time frame for how long it will take to damage a kidney. It is a very individual thing.
3. The back pain and fever could also be due to something as simple (and painful) as kidney stones. This is again why it is so important for you to continue to be followed. Have you had any sort of scan of your kidneys?
Hope this helps a bit.
12Bravo
07-10-2009, 03:51 PM
Cora,
Thanks for the quick response. I don't think I have ever had kidney stones, so I don't have any reference. It is not very severe at all, sometimes hurts when I walk, but not like I'm going to double over, the pain sometimes radiates a little closer to my spine and right above right "Gluteus". So at first I thought it was just from swing the bat and/or throwing the ball around during softball.
Do you always feel pain while urinated with kidney stones?
Can a person have a single elevated case of high creatinine?
I am very concerned. And I really want to stress my doctor to retest, and to refer me to a nephrologist.
Best,
Noel
Thanks for the quick response. I don't think I have ever had kidney stones, so I don't have any reference. It is not very severe at all, sometimes hurts when I walk, but not like I'm going to double over, the pain sometimes radiates a little closer to my spine and right above right "Gluteus". So at first I thought it was just from swing the bat and/or throwing the ball around during softball.
Do you always feel pain while urinated with kidney stones?
Can a person have a single elevated case of high creatinine?
I am very concerned. And I really want to stress my doctor to retest, and to refer me to a nephrologist.
Best,
Noel
yoda1257
07-11-2009, 01:07 AM
Bravo-
Best of luck with your August appointment. It will be good to do blood tests again to see where you are with creatinine and give you some time to gather up any follow-up questions for your doctor re possible kidney problems.
I personally would keep your blood pressure under tight control, if possible, as high blood pressure over time, can definitely influence kidney function. I noticed from another thread under kidney disorder's, you are quite young, so even more important to keep an eye on the BP.
Leea
Best of luck with your August appointment. It will be good to do blood tests again to see where you are with creatinine and give you some time to gather up any follow-up questions for your doctor re possible kidney problems.
I personally would keep your blood pressure under tight control, if possible, as high blood pressure over time, can definitely influence kidney function. I noticed from another thread under kidney disorder's, you are quite young, so even more important to keep an eye on the BP.
Leea
12Bravo
07-13-2009, 12:03 PM
Leea,
Thank you for the response. I go back on August 3rd and I am hoping for good news.
I am young, turned 28 on July 5th. Other than the high blood pressure (and the possible kidney issue) I am pretty healthy. My doctor did not prescribe any blood pressure medication at the time, seeing as I am young I suppose. He did tell me to excersise more and to change my diet....the usual. Since then I have really cut down on salt, fatty food, eating tons of fruits and vegtables and haven't drank a drop of alcohol. I have also laid of the coffee in the morning. Since my last appointment (June 23rd) I have gone from 238 lbs to about 222 lbs just from excersise and diet alone, thats pretty good for about 3 weeks worth of work. I know droping weight will reduce BP i think it's somewhere close to 1 point for every 2.2 lbs.
Best,
Bravo
Thank you for the response. I go back on August 3rd and I am hoping for good news.
I am young, turned 28 on July 5th. Other than the high blood pressure (and the possible kidney issue) I am pretty healthy. My doctor did not prescribe any blood pressure medication at the time, seeing as I am young I suppose. He did tell me to excersise more and to change my diet....the usual. Since then I have really cut down on salt, fatty food, eating tons of fruits and vegtables and haven't drank a drop of alcohol. I have also laid of the coffee in the morning. Since my last appointment (June 23rd) I have gone from 238 lbs to about 222 lbs just from excersise and diet alone, thats pretty good for about 3 weeks worth of work. I know droping weight will reduce BP i think it's somewhere close to 1 point for every 2.2 lbs.
Best,
Bravo
12Bravo
07-17-2009, 05:01 PM
O.K. Got a copy of my labs. Here is the break down, need help deciphering it.
Blood:
Creatinine 1.6 MG/DL
BUN 14 MG/DL
BUN/Creatinine 8.8 ??? Normal range on sheet 5-26 (no units)
eGFR 55.4 ml/min
Total Protein 9.2 gm/dl
Albumin 5.5 g/dl
Hematocrit 48.3%
Urine:
Specific Gravity <1.005
PH 6.5
No protein, glucose, blood or anything else found. I was drinking water during my doctors appointment can that give me a lower specific gravity/dillute my urine.
Just need a little help with what this all means. Kinda nervous.
Best,
Bravo
Blood:
Creatinine 1.6 MG/DL
BUN 14 MG/DL
BUN/Creatinine 8.8 ??? Normal range on sheet 5-26 (no units)
eGFR 55.4 ml/min
Total Protein 9.2 gm/dl
Albumin 5.5 g/dl
Hematocrit 48.3%
Urine:
Specific Gravity <1.005
PH 6.5
No protein, glucose, blood or anything else found. I was drinking water during my doctors appointment can that give me a lower specific gravity/dillute my urine.
Just need a little help with what this all means. Kinda nervous.
Best,
Bravo
12Bravo
07-17-2009, 06:06 PM
Some of this seems very consistent with kidney disease and some what kind of inconsistent.
12Bravo
07-21-2009, 05:47 PM
Just got some older medical records and it's not looking good. Back in 2006 my GFR was in the 70 range, now its in the 50s. Trying to eat well and drink plenty of water until my next doctors appointment. I am upset that the doctors did not tell me that my GFR was dropping, but I guess they usually don't until it reaches >60. Then again I was going to a VA hospital, don't think they are too interested in being proactive (too expensive), just the bare minimum.
Bravo
Bravo
Franksshow
07-31-2009, 12:18 PM
I just read your post-And My Hubby to goes to the VA so I understand your frustration there-I know for a fact BP can cause Kidney damge-Along with Diabetes they are usually right on top of causing kidney damage. My Husband Had Kidney cancer a few years back and His normal level was 1.8. He went into kidney failure a month ago again and his levels flucuate from 2.1 up to as high as 4.6.He to has High BP. So i would not worry to much about 1.6 myself but make sure your primary keeps an eye on it and since your young do not wait for the VA to send you to a Nephrologist-call one on your own-My Husband is 75 and refuses to go out side the VA and I am afraid it will and is causing mayjor damage.
Karen
Karen
12Bravo
07-31-2009, 01:06 PM
Franksshow,
Thank you for your response. The VA can be very frustrating, I went there a few years after I got out of the military. When I was out processing they made it seem that they would be throwing jobs at me left and right, but that was hardly the case. I was a 12Bravo Combat Engineer while I was in (hence the name :-), mostly dealing with explosives, mines etc. There weren't to many companies out there that need anything blown up so jobs were hard to come by, and the ones that I did find almost never had any benifits. But I worked while I went to school and took advantage of the VA for physicals and dental work.
The thing that ticks me off is that the VA doctors never mentioned that this might be a problem, or that my GFR was dropping.
Was your husband normal blood creatinine 1.8 before he had kidney cancer? That seems high but I guess it is due to the older age.
The VA is o.k from my experience...just o.k. though. I would keep pushing your husband to get checked out by someone else. Does no harm to get a second opinion.
I'm not going through the VA any more I have a great job now with benifits and am seeing a regular doctor, I just hope he reffers me to one after my appointment on August 3rd, if not I have already researched some online so I know where to call.
Best,
Bravo
Thank you for your response. The VA can be very frustrating, I went there a few years after I got out of the military. When I was out processing they made it seem that they would be throwing jobs at me left and right, but that was hardly the case. I was a 12Bravo Combat Engineer while I was in (hence the name :-), mostly dealing with explosives, mines etc. There weren't to many companies out there that need anything blown up so jobs were hard to come by, and the ones that I did find almost never had any benifits. But I worked while I went to school and took advantage of the VA for physicals and dental work.
The thing that ticks me off is that the VA doctors never mentioned that this might be a problem, or that my GFR was dropping.
Was your husband normal blood creatinine 1.8 before he had kidney cancer? That seems high but I guess it is due to the older age.
The VA is o.k from my experience...just o.k. though. I would keep pushing your husband to get checked out by someone else. Does no harm to get a second opinion.
I'm not going through the VA any more I have a great job now with benifits and am seeing a regular doctor, I just hope he reffers me to one after my appointment on August 3rd, if not I have already researched some online so I know where to call.
Best,
Bravo
Franksshow
07-31-2009, 08:23 PM
His Level was 1.8 after surgery and had been that for the past few years-Then his pottaium went high and I do not remeber the #-They placed him on a water pill and then a month later all Hell broke loose-BP started to rise,Kidney level rose fevers started and it has been a battle ever since. My biggest concern is he will not make the 12th appointment and he refuses to go to the ER or any other Doctor-I truly think he has just decided he has had enough-
Karen
Karen
Rick216
08-29-2009, 09:28 PM
Just ran across this Googling.
The calculator that's used for GFR is simply an estimate (that's why it's "eGFR"). According to one of the calculators my last eGFR was also stage 3 (first time ever) with a creatinine of 1.34, and an eGFR of 55. Using the other most-respected calculator, I came out to 71. None of this is precise (and calling it "Stage 3" as soon as you cross slighlty "over the line" is a dubious practice -- going from "unreported" to Stage 3" -- come on...). Also, the measurement of creatinine can be subect to variablity within the individual and lab to lab. I have a friend with high-stage hypertension, long highly controlled, who once had a 1.5 instead of his usual 1.1. His doctor, a recently retired hypertension expert at Rush Presbyterian in Chicago (who headed the committee that created the most recent official BP treatment protocol) told him "forget about." Now, I don't know if there are other factors that might have made him dismissive, but sure enough my friend's creatinine was back to 1.1 six months later. And since he went on an earnest diet, it is now 0.7 -- which kind of floored me since I didn't know dieting was supposed to affect creatinine -- certainly not to that degree. I am by NO means saying to be dismissive, but I am also saying don't get so alarmed and take everything at face value based on one test. Good doctors aren't supposed to do that, but many do. Lab results need to be evaluated in tandem with other factors. Drugs alone can affect creatinine, usually reversibly. And there are idipoathic results and reactions. Hydration status, maybe a reaction to aspirin, and good old lab outliers. Don't want to write a book here (especially since it's so rambling). But three weeks after I got the 1.34 I told you about, I am now at 1.05 -- lowest in years. I did stop a few non-essential supplements and started drinking a LOT more (about 8 glasses of WATER a day -- other drinks can actually be diuretics). Now, one doctor (urologist/professor at an Ivy League school) said it was great my creatinine reacted to hydration, keep it up. And that test results can be inaccurate at times. While the other, a self-described opinionated eccentric psych doc here in the Chicago area, who as usual is suggesting a couple strange meds says such a quick change is abnormal and that he feels "my body is trying to become renal diabetic" and that I should work to prevent that. Given the first guy's credentials and specialty -- plus my friend's past experience, I certainly have justification for for believing the urologist, even though I don't see him regularly like the psych doc. In any event, while you DEFINITLEY need to lose weight (sorry if I missed the fact that you already have), one reading of 1.6 is NOT a sentence to sever deterioration of kidney function, although it may be a warning to take action if repeated. Don't want to keep rambling here, but another factor is that some people have higher baseline creatinine to begin with, even when healthy. One more thing -- if you weren't fasting before the test, you should be, even though strictly speaking that's not SUPPOSED to be required. And again, drink lots of water! I've always pooh-poohed the idea that people need to drink lots of water, but no more! Of course, you know what the downside is -- more visits to the john. Sorry, no time to proof or make more readable. Rick
The calculator that's used for GFR is simply an estimate (that's why it's "eGFR"). According to one of the calculators my last eGFR was also stage 3 (first time ever) with a creatinine of 1.34, and an eGFR of 55. Using the other most-respected calculator, I came out to 71. None of this is precise (and calling it "Stage 3" as soon as you cross slighlty "over the line" is a dubious practice -- going from "unreported" to Stage 3" -- come on...). Also, the measurement of creatinine can be subect to variablity within the individual and lab to lab. I have a friend with high-stage hypertension, long highly controlled, who once had a 1.5 instead of his usual 1.1. His doctor, a recently retired hypertension expert at Rush Presbyterian in Chicago (who headed the committee that created the most recent official BP treatment protocol) told him "forget about." Now, I don't know if there are other factors that might have made him dismissive, but sure enough my friend's creatinine was back to 1.1 six months later. And since he went on an earnest diet, it is now 0.7 -- which kind of floored me since I didn't know dieting was supposed to affect creatinine -- certainly not to that degree. I am by NO means saying to be dismissive, but I am also saying don't get so alarmed and take everything at face value based on one test. Good doctors aren't supposed to do that, but many do. Lab results need to be evaluated in tandem with other factors. Drugs alone can affect creatinine, usually reversibly. And there are idipoathic results and reactions. Hydration status, maybe a reaction to aspirin, and good old lab outliers. Don't want to write a book here (especially since it's so rambling). But three weeks after I got the 1.34 I told you about, I am now at 1.05 -- lowest in years. I did stop a few non-essential supplements and started drinking a LOT more (about 8 glasses of WATER a day -- other drinks can actually be diuretics). Now, one doctor (urologist/professor at an Ivy League school) said it was great my creatinine reacted to hydration, keep it up. And that test results can be inaccurate at times. While the other, a self-described opinionated eccentric psych doc here in the Chicago area, who as usual is suggesting a couple strange meds says such a quick change is abnormal and that he feels "my body is trying to become renal diabetic" and that I should work to prevent that. Given the first guy's credentials and specialty -- plus my friend's past experience, I certainly have justification for for believing the urologist, even though I don't see him regularly like the psych doc. In any event, while you DEFINITLEY need to lose weight (sorry if I missed the fact that you already have), one reading of 1.6 is NOT a sentence to sever deterioration of kidney function, although it may be a warning to take action if repeated. Don't want to keep rambling here, but another factor is that some people have higher baseline creatinine to begin with, even when healthy. One more thing -- if you weren't fasting before the test, you should be, even though strictly speaking that's not SUPPOSED to be required. And again, drink lots of water! I've always pooh-poohed the idea that people need to drink lots of water, but no more! Of course, you know what the downside is -- more visits to the john. Sorry, no time to proof or make more readable. Rick
Rick216
08-29-2009, 09:42 PM
Just ran across this Googling.
The calculator that's used for GFR is simply an estimate (that's why it's "eGFR"). According to one of the calculators my last eGFR was also stage 3 (first time ever) with a creatinine of 1.34, and an eGFR of 55. Using the other most-respected calculator, I came out to 71. None of this is precise (and calling it "Stage 3" as soon as you cross slighlty "over the line" is a dubious practice -- going from "unreported" to Stage 3" -- come on...). Also, the measurement of creatinine can be subect to variablity within the individual and lab to lab. I have a friend with high-stage hypertension, long highly controlled, who once had a 1.5 instead of his usual 1.1. His doctor, a recently retired hypertension expert at Rush Presbyterian in Chicago (who headed the committee that created the most recent official BP treatment protocol) told him "forget about." Now, I don't know if there are other factors that might have made him dismissive, but sure enough my friend's creatinine was back to 1.1 six months later. And since he went on an earnest diet, it is now 0.7 -- which kind of floored me since I didn't know dieting was supposed to affect creatinine -- certainly not to that degree. I am by NO means saying to be dismissive, but I am also saying don't get so alarmed and take everything at face value based on one test. Good doctors aren't supposed to do that, but many do. Lab results need to be evaluated in tandem with other factors. Drugs alone can affect creatinine, usually reversibly. And there are idipoathic results and reactions. Hydration status, maybe a reaction to aspirin, and good old lab outliers. Don't want to write a book here (especially since it's so rambling). But three weeks after I got the 1.34 I told you about, I am now at 1.05 -- lowest in years. I did stop a few non-essential supplements and started drinking a LOT more (about 8 glasses of WATER a day -- other drinks can actually be diuretics). Now, one doctor (urologist/professor at an Ivy League school) said it was great my creatinine reacted to hydration, keep it up. And that test results can be inaccurate at times. While the other, a self-described opinionated eccentric psych doc here in the Chicago area, who as usual is suggesting a couple strange meds says such a quick change is abnormal and that he feels "my body is trying to become renal diabetic" and that I should work to prevent that. Given the first guy's credentials and specialty -- plus my friend's past experience, I certainly have justification for for believing the urologist, even though I don't see him regularly like the psych doc. In any event, while you DEFINITLEY need to lose weight (sorry if I missed the fact that you already have), one reading of 1.6 is NOT a sentence to sever deterioration of kidney function, although it may be a warning to take action if repeated. Don't want to keep rambling here, but another factor is that some people have higher baseline creatinine to begin with, even when healthy. One more thing -- if you weren't fasting before the test, you should be, even though strictly speaking that's not SUPPOSED to be required. And again, drink lots of water! I've always pooh-poohed the idea that people need to drink lots of water, but no more! Of course, you know what the downside is -- more visits to the john. Sorry, no time to proof or make more readable. Rick
The calculator that's used for GFR is simply an estimate (that's why it's "eGFR"). According to one of the calculators my last eGFR was also stage 3 (first time ever) with a creatinine of 1.34, and an eGFR of 55. Using the other most-respected calculator, I came out to 71. None of this is precise (and calling it "Stage 3" as soon as you cross slighlty "over the line" is a dubious practice -- going from "unreported" to Stage 3" -- come on...). Also, the measurement of creatinine can be subect to variablity within the individual and lab to lab. I have a friend with high-stage hypertension, long highly controlled, who once had a 1.5 instead of his usual 1.1. His doctor, a recently retired hypertension expert at Rush Presbyterian in Chicago (who headed the committee that created the most recent official BP treatment protocol) told him "forget about." Now, I don't know if there are other factors that might have made him dismissive, but sure enough my friend's creatinine was back to 1.1 six months later. And since he went on an earnest diet, it is now 0.7 -- which kind of floored me since I didn't know dieting was supposed to affect creatinine -- certainly not to that degree. I am by NO means saying to be dismissive, but I am also saying don't get so alarmed and take everything at face value based on one test. Good doctors aren't supposed to do that, but many do. Lab results need to be evaluated in tandem with other factors. Drugs alone can affect creatinine, usually reversibly. And there are idipoathic results and reactions. Hydration status, maybe a reaction to aspirin, and good old lab outliers. Don't want to write a book here (especially since it's so rambling). But three weeks after I got the 1.34 I told you about, I am now at 1.05 -- lowest in years. I did stop a few non-essential supplements and started drinking a LOT more (about 8 glasses of WATER a day -- other drinks can actually be diuretics). Now, one doctor (urologist/professor at an Ivy League school) said it was great my creatinine reacted to hydration, keep it up. And that test results can be inaccurate at times. While the other, a self-described opinionated eccentric psych doc here in the Chicago area, who as usual is suggesting a couple strange meds says such a quick change is abnormal and that he feels "my body is trying to become renal diabetic" and that I should work to prevent that. Given the first guy's credentials and specialty -- plus my friend's past experience, I certainly have justification for for believing the urologist, even though I don't see him regularly like the psych doc. In any event, while you DEFINITLEY need to lose weight (sorry if I missed the fact that you already have), one reading of 1.6 is NOT a sentence to sever deterioration of kidney function, although it may be a warning to take action if repeated. Don't want to keep rambling here, but another factor is that some people have higher baseline creatinine to begin with, even when healthy. One more thing -- if you weren't fasting before the test, you should be, even though strictly speaking that's not SUPPOSED to be required. And again, drink lots of water! I've always pooh-poohed the idea that people need to drink lots of water, but no more! Of course, you know what the downside is -- more visits to the john. Sorry, no time to proof or make more readable. Rick
Franksshow
08-30-2009, 06:02 PM
http://www.kidney.org/professionals/kdoqi/gfr_calculator.cfm
Had a specialist send me to this site to put in your numbers and if you have chronic renal failure it givews you your stage-
Had a specialist send me to this site to put in your numbers and if you have chronic renal failure it givews you your stage-
Rick216
08-31-2009, 04:01 AM
http://www.kidney.org/professionals/kdoqi/gfr_calculator.cfm
Had a specialist send me to this site to put in your numbers and if you have chronic renal failure it givews you your stage-
As I pointed out in my rambling (duplicated!) post, the calculator is an ESTIMATE. You'll note that it even says, "..estimate GFR," not "determine GFR." There is no way to tell actual GFR without more invasive testing. Although the MDRD calclator is the one suggested by the NKF, note that their page itself links to other "useful" calculators which may give different results. Also, if you look into it further you will see that the official guidelines for diagnosis of kidney disease requires a second estimated GFR <60 three months later. Even then, while the diagnosis is likely to be real, there may be other factors at work, and highly variable rates of progression depending on other factors.
Had a specialist send me to this site to put in your numbers and if you have chronic renal failure it givews you your stage-
As I pointed out in my rambling (duplicated!) post, the calculator is an ESTIMATE. You'll note that it even says, "..estimate GFR," not "determine GFR." There is no way to tell actual GFR without more invasive testing. Although the MDRD calclator is the one suggested by the NKF, note that their page itself links to other "useful" calculators which may give different results. Also, if you look into it further you will see that the official guidelines for diagnosis of kidney disease requires a second estimated GFR <60 three months later. Even then, while the diagnosis is likely to be real, there may be other factors at work, and highly variable rates of progression depending on other factors.
12Bravo
08-31-2009, 02:17 PM
Rick216,
Thank you for your response. I do understand that the eGFR is only and estimate and that there is a lot more to a diagnosis than just one blood test. Since my last appointment I have had another blood test and urinalysis along with a renal ultrasound. Before the most current blood test, I did, however, adopt a renal diet (lower protein, salt, etc.) My serum creatinine was at 1.16 and my BUN at 6 (which is out of range on the low end). I have lost some additional weight and last time I checked I was at about 207 lbs down from 238. My blood pressure is now under control with medication, and is well at or under 120/80, before medication it was about 140/80, however I think I do suffer from white coat HP so it might have been a little lower than that and just elevated at the doctors office. My PCP will perform another basic metabolic panel in 3 months in order to monitor my serum creatinine. My renal ultrasound came back normal, however I did notice that my kidneys were a bit smaller than the normal range. 9 and change cm x 5 and change cm on my left and 9 and change cm by 4 and change cm for my right one. I know that the normal range is about 10-13 cm x 5-7.5 cm. This means that they have shruken a bit...which might be a bad sign. My doctor is being very hepful but does not think that there is any real need for concern at this moment. I, however am I little harder to convince I'll have to admit:D. So I am babying my kidneys for the meanwhile. This is something that I am keeping a watchful eye on and hoping that it is nothing more than a bump in the road.
Rick, I was also curious as to whether you had a link to the more reputable GFR calculator....I am very interested. I am also from the Chicago land area (Northwest Suburbs), and am blessed to have so many great options available in regards to health care right in my back yard.
Best,
Bravo
Thank you for your response. I do understand that the eGFR is only and estimate and that there is a lot more to a diagnosis than just one blood test. Since my last appointment I have had another blood test and urinalysis along with a renal ultrasound. Before the most current blood test, I did, however, adopt a renal diet (lower protein, salt, etc.) My serum creatinine was at 1.16 and my BUN at 6 (which is out of range on the low end). I have lost some additional weight and last time I checked I was at about 207 lbs down from 238. My blood pressure is now under control with medication, and is well at or under 120/80, before medication it was about 140/80, however I think I do suffer from white coat HP so it might have been a little lower than that and just elevated at the doctors office. My PCP will perform another basic metabolic panel in 3 months in order to monitor my serum creatinine. My renal ultrasound came back normal, however I did notice that my kidneys were a bit smaller than the normal range. 9 and change cm x 5 and change cm on my left and 9 and change cm by 4 and change cm for my right one. I know that the normal range is about 10-13 cm x 5-7.5 cm. This means that they have shruken a bit...which might be a bad sign. My doctor is being very hepful but does not think that there is any real need for concern at this moment. I, however am I little harder to convince I'll have to admit:D. So I am babying my kidneys for the meanwhile. This is something that I am keeping a watchful eye on and hoping that it is nothing more than a bump in the road.
Rick, I was also curious as to whether you had a link to the more reputable GFR calculator....I am very interested. I am also from the Chicago land area (Northwest Suburbs), and am blessed to have so many great options available in regards to health care right in my back yard.
Best,
Bravo
writeleft
08-31-2009, 02:58 PM
12Bravo,
I understand your concerns over your kidneys. I applaud you for changing your diet, and congrats on your weight loss...Keep it up!
I want to offer you a little encouragement, from someone who has been there too. While I am no expert in all the technical areas, I am a person living with Stage 4 Kidney Disease (eGFR-23).
Five years ago, I suffered 4 simultaneous strokes, due to malignant hypertension, which in turn caused kidney failure. I was 43 at the time, and in the last five years have regained kidney function to approx 40%, until recently, where I slid down to this GFR. Last month I actually gained 3-5% function, which thrilled me and my doctor.
Even at this level of disease, I am still active, happy and take care of my family. Although I tire more easily, I still ride my motorcycle in the desert, camp, go to the beach, swim, bicycle, walk, exercise, drive, etc. I do watch my BP like a hawk, get blood work done every month, and see my doctors...I am very much alive, and able to contribute to my community. I know dialysis is a reality, that I have had counseling on, and although I don't look forward to it, I feel prepared for it when the day comes.
Kidney disease typically takes years to advance, and keeping a close eye on the kidneys is the best thing you can do, without worrying too much. Worrying has its own problems. I wish you the best!
I understand your concerns over your kidneys. I applaud you for changing your diet, and congrats on your weight loss...Keep it up!
I want to offer you a little encouragement, from someone who has been there too. While I am no expert in all the technical areas, I am a person living with Stage 4 Kidney Disease (eGFR-23).
Five years ago, I suffered 4 simultaneous strokes, due to malignant hypertension, which in turn caused kidney failure. I was 43 at the time, and in the last five years have regained kidney function to approx 40%, until recently, where I slid down to this GFR. Last month I actually gained 3-5% function, which thrilled me and my doctor.
Even at this level of disease, I am still active, happy and take care of my family. Although I tire more easily, I still ride my motorcycle in the desert, camp, go to the beach, swim, bicycle, walk, exercise, drive, etc. I do watch my BP like a hawk, get blood work done every month, and see my doctors...I am very much alive, and able to contribute to my community. I know dialysis is a reality, that I have had counseling on, and although I don't look forward to it, I feel prepared for it when the day comes.
Kidney disease typically takes years to advance, and keeping a close eye on the kidneys is the best thing you can do, without worrying too much. Worrying has its own problems. I wish you the best!
Rick216
09-01-2009, 03:46 AM
Bravo, your screen name says it all! Bravo!
"Babying" your kidneys seems like a prudent thing to do regardless. Congrats on getting the BP even lower (and maybe lower still if you have white-coat), and on the weight loss!
The other commonly-used eGFR formula I referred to is is the Cockcroft-Gault. Unlike the MDRD, it includes the individual's weight in the calculation. * Disallowed website and related information removed by hb-mod, moderator *
The MDRD has come under some criticism for a tendency to underestimate actual GFR. Some of the criticisms point to the size and composition of the sample used to create the formula. For example, a Mayo Clinic review concluded, "The MDRD equation underestimated GFR by 6.2% in patients with chronic kidney disease and by 29% in healthy persons."
* Disallowed website and related information removed by hb-mod, moderator *
There are other estimators, including some being developed right now. Some are modified versions of the MDRD and the Cockcroft-Gault.
BTW, I knew you were in the Chicago area from your post (or maybe your profile)? That's why I mentioned the names of specific sites in my initial, rambling post. Interesting to hear you are in the NW burbs, because that's where I am, too.
Maybe I should put this in a separate post, but I was really impressed by what writeleft (great handle!) had to say. That kind of attitude is half the battle, especially for someone who has gone through so much! You are an inspiration writeleft, and I'm delighted your numbers are moving back up. With that kind of level-headed attitude, I can see why! If you'll excuse my dipping back into 70's talk, "keep on truckin!"
Rick
"Babying" your kidneys seems like a prudent thing to do regardless. Congrats on getting the BP even lower (and maybe lower still if you have white-coat), and on the weight loss!
The other commonly-used eGFR formula I referred to is is the Cockcroft-Gault. Unlike the MDRD, it includes the individual's weight in the calculation. * Disallowed website and related information removed by hb-mod, moderator *
The MDRD has come under some criticism for a tendency to underestimate actual GFR. Some of the criticisms point to the size and composition of the sample used to create the formula. For example, a Mayo Clinic review concluded, "The MDRD equation underestimated GFR by 6.2% in patients with chronic kidney disease and by 29% in healthy persons."
* Disallowed website and related information removed by hb-mod, moderator *
There are other estimators, including some being developed right now. Some are modified versions of the MDRD and the Cockcroft-Gault.
BTW, I knew you were in the Chicago area from your post (or maybe your profile)? That's why I mentioned the names of specific sites in my initial, rambling post. Interesting to hear you are in the NW burbs, because that's where I am, too.
Maybe I should put this in a separate post, but I was really impressed by what writeleft (great handle!) had to say. That kind of attitude is half the battle, especially for someone who has gone through so much! You are an inspiration writeleft, and I'm delighted your numbers are moving back up. With that kind of level-headed attitude, I can see why! If you'll excuse my dipping back into 70's talk, "keep on truckin!"
Rick
writeleft
09-01-2009, 01:20 PM
Thank you Rick...I greatly appreciate your kind words.
Awoooooga! (That's the sound of the horn in my 1962 Chevy Truck)...while I keep on truckin' down the road. :cool:
Janet
Awoooooga! (That's the sound of the horn in my 1962 Chevy Truck)...while I keep on truckin' down the road. :cool:
Janet
12Bravo
09-02-2009, 07:13 PM
Rick,
Thank you for that website. That is much more encouraging the most of the calculators you'll find out there. I think this is the first one I see where weight is incorporated, not even the Davita calculator incorporates weight. I am curious if that is based on the old formula or the new one.
I am trying to stay calm and optimistic but it is so hard with most of the information out there. I did read the Mayo Clinic article before, lots of good info in there, very technical but good. I live and work in the Melrose Park area.
writeleft,
Thank you for sharing your experiences about living with CKD. I have to admit coming here and reading about real experiences is the main reason I come. You are very very active for a person in stage 4.....wow that is truly amazing.
I also have hypertension, but I am curious as to "how bad" does it have to be before it really cause damage to the kidneys. I know very little about malignant hypertension, I do that it is somewhat rare but very very dangerous. I would also like to ask (if not to forward) how old you were when you had the malignant hypertension?
Thanks for all the encouragement guy and gals :D
Best,
Bravo
Thank you for that website. That is much more encouraging the most of the calculators you'll find out there. I think this is the first one I see where weight is incorporated, not even the Davita calculator incorporates weight. I am curious if that is based on the old formula or the new one.
I am trying to stay calm and optimistic but it is so hard with most of the information out there. I did read the Mayo Clinic article before, lots of good info in there, very technical but good. I live and work in the Melrose Park area.
writeleft,
Thank you for sharing your experiences about living with CKD. I have to admit coming here and reading about real experiences is the main reason I come. You are very very active for a person in stage 4.....wow that is truly amazing.
I also have hypertension, but I am curious as to "how bad" does it have to be before it really cause damage to the kidneys. I know very little about malignant hypertension, I do that it is somewhat rare but very very dangerous. I would also like to ask (if not to forward) how old you were when you had the malignant hypertension?
Thanks for all the encouragement guy and gals :D
Best,
Bravo
writeleft
09-02-2009, 08:01 PM
Bravo,
Thank you for the kind words. I am happy to share my experiences with you, to possibly save you from some of the difficulties I have had. You have several important things going for you... You are young, you have a wealth of information available to you, and the ongoing new medical discoveries.
My first round with hypertension came at the end of my first pregnancy. I was 24, and it was 1984. I had toxemia, that was resolved following my son's birth. I believe that my hypertension started with that, and my family history of BP and Kidney Disease. Hypertension was not widely understood or talked about, like it is now. I was not in a known risk group, being so young and healthy, so years passed.
At age 38, I stepped on a nail, and went in for a tetanus shot. My BP was through the roof...240/130 or so, and I was sent directly into the hospital for a week to stabilize. I did not understand the danger I was in, and I kept on going.
Finally, at age 43, I had 4 strokes simultaneously, kidney failure, heart attack, strokes on my retina's, and more. I was snorkeling at the time, and was hit with a headache that blinded me, and it is a surreal memory.
So to answer your question, about 25 years...20 years under-treated, 5 years recovering, so far.
My diagnosis of malignant hypertension means that it has deadly potential, by damaging many organs, your kidneys and eyes and brain for starters. It has a family origin, but I never knew about it in advance.
I suggest you keep on doing what you are doing, eating right, keeping healthy, and keeping your BP in nice control...oh, and the babying of your kidneys, I like that use of words!
Your friend...
Thank you for the kind words. I am happy to share my experiences with you, to possibly save you from some of the difficulties I have had. You have several important things going for you... You are young, you have a wealth of information available to you, and the ongoing new medical discoveries.
My first round with hypertension came at the end of my first pregnancy. I was 24, and it was 1984. I had toxemia, that was resolved following my son's birth. I believe that my hypertension started with that, and my family history of BP and Kidney Disease. Hypertension was not widely understood or talked about, like it is now. I was not in a known risk group, being so young and healthy, so years passed.
At age 38, I stepped on a nail, and went in for a tetanus shot. My BP was through the roof...240/130 or so, and I was sent directly into the hospital for a week to stabilize. I did not understand the danger I was in, and I kept on going.
Finally, at age 43, I had 4 strokes simultaneously, kidney failure, heart attack, strokes on my retina's, and more. I was snorkeling at the time, and was hit with a headache that blinded me, and it is a surreal memory.
So to answer your question, about 25 years...20 years under-treated, 5 years recovering, so far.
My diagnosis of malignant hypertension means that it has deadly potential, by damaging many organs, your kidneys and eyes and brain for starters. It has a family origin, but I never knew about it in advance.
I suggest you keep on doing what you are doing, eating right, keeping healthy, and keeping your BP in nice control...oh, and the babying of your kidneys, I like that use of words!
Your friend...
Rick216
09-03-2009, 02:46 AM
Rick,
Thank you for that website. That is much more encouraging the most of the calculators you'll find out there. I think this is the first one I see where weight is incorporated, not even the Davita calculator incorporates weight. I am curious if that is based on the old formula or the new one.
I've looked at DaVita a couple times and used their calculator. I *think* it said they use a modified MDRD. When I used it the estimated GFR came out a couple points higher than the "regular" MDRD, but about ten points lower than the Cockcroft-Gault. Of course the amounts by which they vary will depend on the inputs.The Cockcroft-Gault seems to give higher estimates with higher weight. I sometimes wonder if one idea of the MDRD (even if not explictly disclosed) was to avoid complacency among overweight individuals and their doctors, since weight loss can be so beneficial for the kidney health and in many other ways.
Thank you for that website. That is much more encouraging the most of the calculators you'll find out there. I think this is the first one I see where weight is incorporated, not even the Davita calculator incorporates weight. I am curious if that is based on the old formula or the new one.
I've looked at DaVita a couple times and used their calculator. I *think* it said they use a modified MDRD. When I used it the estimated GFR came out a couple points higher than the "regular" MDRD, but about ten points lower than the Cockcroft-Gault. Of course the amounts by which they vary will depend on the inputs.The Cockcroft-Gault seems to give higher estimates with higher weight. I sometimes wonder if one idea of the MDRD (even if not explictly disclosed) was to avoid complacency among overweight individuals and their doctors, since weight loss can be so beneficial for the kidney health and in many other ways.
12Bravo
09-03-2009, 07:03 PM
writeleft,
Wow you have been through so much. 20 years of untreated hypertension is a long time. The reason I ask is to kind of (even though it is silly, becuase everyone if different) get a time frame for how long it takes to really cause damage to ones kidneys through hypertension. After all that you are still excersising, camping AND take care of your family (to borrow Rick216's pun)....BRAVO! :D
Rick216,
I punched my numbers into the calculator on Davita and I was in the 80-70 range as opposed to the link you provided where I was over 100. I will have to re-read the Mayo clinic article, I think I am still getting the MDRD and the Cockcroft-Gault formulas confused. Your link is still the only one where the take weight into consideration.
Best,
Bravo
Wow you have been through so much. 20 years of untreated hypertension is a long time. The reason I ask is to kind of (even though it is silly, becuase everyone if different) get a time frame for how long it takes to really cause damage to ones kidneys through hypertension. After all that you are still excersising, camping AND take care of your family (to borrow Rick216's pun)....BRAVO! :D
Rick216,
I punched my numbers into the calculator on Davita and I was in the 80-70 range as opposed to the link you provided where I was over 100. I will have to re-read the Mayo clinic article, I think I am still getting the MDRD and the Cockcroft-Gault formulas confused. Your link is still the only one where the take weight into consideration.
Best,
Bravo
writeleft
09-03-2009, 08:42 PM
12Bravo,
My case is the ultimate "what NOT to do"...
I must clarify one thing though. Following the strokes, I slept for a solid year, completely helpless, and cared for 24/7. The second year, I began to wake up, but I went through another year of fainting several times a day, making it impossible for me to even go the bathroom without help. The third year, I began to speak, but was still heavily medicated. The fourth year I began to ride my quad again, but still could not drive, was still quite confused, and had severe memory issues. That brings us to the last year, where my biggest improvements began. These days I drive my 1962 Chevy truck, and re-learned to type (here on the boards). My speech is still mixed up, but funny. I am determined to live and be happy. My family and my children are my biggest motivator...I want to see my son graduate college. He is now in tenth grade.
I have gone from 15 medications a day to my present combo of 7, and only ONE BP med! (BenicarHCT 40-12.5). Our bodies and our minds are very resilient, especially when we help them along...like you are doing. Good for you!
Your friend, Janet
My case is the ultimate "what NOT to do"...
I must clarify one thing though. Following the strokes, I slept for a solid year, completely helpless, and cared for 24/7. The second year, I began to wake up, but I went through another year of fainting several times a day, making it impossible for me to even go the bathroom without help. The third year, I began to speak, but was still heavily medicated. The fourth year I began to ride my quad again, but still could not drive, was still quite confused, and had severe memory issues. That brings us to the last year, where my biggest improvements began. These days I drive my 1962 Chevy truck, and re-learned to type (here on the boards). My speech is still mixed up, but funny. I am determined to live and be happy. My family and my children are my biggest motivator...I want to see my son graduate college. He is now in tenth grade.
I have gone from 15 medications a day to my present combo of 7, and only ONE BP med! (BenicarHCT 40-12.5). Our bodies and our minds are very resilient, especially when we help them along...like you are doing. Good for you!
Your friend, Janet
Rick216
09-04-2009, 03:43 AM
12Bravo, just search on "Cockcroft-Gault Calculator" in Google and you'll find lots of them. From what I can see, they all request weight as an input.